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It’s been a bad few weeks for women’s carry options. First there was the much-publicized shooting of a mother by her toddler when the tyke pulled her pistol from her purse (which was designed to hold a firearm). Now comes news of a Michigan woman who encountered a problem with an on-body carry option. As mlive.com reports, “A woman who accidentally shot herself in the eye on New Years Day at her Lake Michigan home was adjusting the handgun in her bra holster, police say” . . .

“(Christina Bond) was having trouble adjusting her bra holster, couldn’t get it to fit the way she wanted it to. She was looking down at it and accidentally discharged the weapon,” said St. Joseph Public Safety Director Mark Clapp.

We don’t know the brand of the rig Ms. Bond was using, but as Limatunes notes in the video above, the makers of the FlashBang bra holster advise users to holster their gun in the clamshell before attaching it to their unmentionables. Following her advice and practicing with a blue (or at least and empty) gun would seem to be time well spent.

It’s hard to imagine a scenario in which a user of a bra-mounted holster could contort themselves in such a way as to look down the barrel of their own heater, but happen it did. Apparently.

There’s a reason the four rules reign supreme. They work every time they’re followed. Ignore them at your peril.

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92 Responses to Fatal ND: Bra Holster Goes Boom

    • My brother’s father in law has been a cop for 25 years. You should hear some of the stories of accidental self caused death by all kinds of means. People falling from ladders, slipping on a sock left on the stairs.

      Last year he was a responder when woman in his city killed herself accidentally with a YOGA pose — broke her own neck in a yoga class.

      The difference is the gun stories are covered wall to wall in the press.

      By the way he would tell you that the big portion of gun accidents, including those involving children, are in the homes of gang members and active criminals. Active muggers leaving their guns on the table while they nod off on drugs and the kid of their girlfriend picks up the gun, etc. The danger to kids generally is not the gun in the home — it is the criminal in the home. That is the real correlative factor on violence, intentional and accidental , in the home

  1. A few years back a HIVAC technician shot himself in the manhood when he adjusted his concealed carry firearm while he was adjusting it. Its the price some people have to pay when they let down guard while carrying Glocks and other striker pistols.

      • Jake,
        A pistol is worthless without a round in the pipe and without a manual safety if a person fails to pay attention as to where their finger is or if a foreign object is in the trigger well then there is a great possibility of an ND.

        I know that a lot of people don’t like safeties and thats their preference. Lots of people carry striker pistols every day without having an ND but I grew up with auto pistols with safeties so its second nature for me to flip the safety of without thinking about it.

        BTW I’ve never seen a 1911 or DA/SA pistol have an ND unless it was cocked first.

        Just be safe.

        • Yes I don’t understand the correlation; I carry 1911s and Glocks, both obviously in Condition One. The only real difference is all holsters for my 1911s have sweat guards cover the thumb safety (I don’t use ambi safeties) while most of the Glock holsters typically have a shorter guard. A Glock also couldn’t have an ND if it was somehow “uncocked” like a hammer down on a live chamber on a 1911.

        • Oh wait… Did you mean if the DA/SA pistol was cocked first? THAT I agree with, I have a few Sigs and in particular a S&W 327 8-shot that would be completely crazy to attempt to holster with the hammer back.

        • If I was unclear you stated my intent perfectly. DA pistols have really heavy trigger pulls with the hammer down. Hard to have a ND in that scenario.

        • Excuse my ignorance, but how would you end up with a 1911 that has a round in the chamber and the hammer down WITHOUT PULLING THE TRIGGER? Are you saying it’s “safer’ to manually decock a 1911 than it is to carry a Glock?

        • Drew youre joking right? I have used a 1911 for years and never had a ND. Have people? Probably but I’d feel safer around most people carrying weapons if they would keep there fingers off the triggers until they are ready to shoot regardless of the type of pistol.

        • The grip safety is usually sufficient especially on a 1911 or full sized Springfield. You can easily manipulate the pistol without depressing the grip safety. Browning designed the 1911 with a grip safety only. It was the Cavalry Board that wanted the thumb safety because need to handle an unruly horse could lead to a ND.

      • I think he singled out striker fired since they usually have shorter, lighter, trigger pulls than say a double action revolver. I know my G19 has a nicer, shorter, and lighter trigger than my S&W 642. I feel very comfortable pocket carrying the 642 in a pocket holster. The G19, I’d rather carry IWB (I think I’d be hesitant to pocket carry a G26)

        That said, I’ll bet that this woman was probably carrying a tiny micro .380. Those (at least my P3AT) still usually have a fairly long heavy trigger.

        • Long story short it’s easier to have a ND if you’re stupid with a striker pistol vs being stupid with a revolver or DA/SA.

          Most of us are good at not being stupid. Some are not.

        • Sian,
          Art is correct. The NYPD had so many ND’s they went to a 12 lb trigger pull. BTW thats probably why the safest place to be in in front of the perp when the cops shoot at someone there.

        • Sian,

          “Most of us are good at not being stupid. Some are not.”

          You sir or ma’am win the Intertubez for today!

        • People are good at “not being stupid”, until one day they aren’t. And one time is all it takes.

          Devices have to be designed to be failsafe in the face of that, inasmuch as possible without compromising their function. A manual safety goes a long way there.

    • It’s the price people pay when they don’t wear a decent holster. ND’s happen with 1911s and DA/SA also.

    • regardless of the gun or it safeties, or “lack” thereof, if you keep your booger hook of the bang switch you cant have a ND,,,,,

      • Perhaps not a negligent discharge but an accidental discharge is a possibility. There was a case a while back of a cop (wearing a cop windbreaker) getting his drawstring toggle caught in the trigger well of his Glock. When he pulled on it the gun went bang. Had he been carrying a gun with a safety there’d be no bang. If he had been carrying a weapon with a long hard DA trigger pull he’d have had to pull harder than he had to with the Glock. Glocks and nonGlock brand Glocks have their place, but carrying them comes with the necessity to use extra caution.

        And make sure their unloaded before taking them down…

    • You really seem to know your stuff. As you point out, it’s the very action of the striker always cocked and ready over a live round that makes them so unsafe. And why so many newbies have NDs with them. That they are marketed specifically to the newer, less able, shooter only adds to the problem. So does the lack of a manual safety, in favor of a little plastic trigger lever. The more idiot proof you attempt to make a device, the more capable of screwups the idiot gets.
      Since glock type pistols are an attempt at that, they should be double action only, where the striker is cocked only by the trigger. Then no safety of any kind is needed. Either that or go back to DA/SA revolvers, which had few NDs, even in the hands of rank newbies. It’s just part of the design being so intrinsically easy to understand.

      • “You really seem to know your stuff”

        Translation: I agree with you.

        Truth: A Glock has three safeties so the fact that the striker is cocked behind a live chambered round is no more dangerous than any other gun. How about a cocked and locked 1911? What if you inadvertently disengage the safety? That is as likely to happen as inadvertently pulling a 5.5 pound trigger on a striker fired gun.

        • Yes I know. But when you grip the gun you take one off, and if the other one was unintentionally switched off, or forgotten to put on safe, then that trigger is more sensitive than a Glock.
          I’m not against 1911’s. I only make these comments when people claim Glocks are more dangerous, which is not true.

        • Michael, Its the idiots holding the pistols that are unsafe. Anecdotally speaking ( I was told this by a SOF guy and don’t have first hand knowledge of it) I believe it was the 7th SFG that bought Glocks for everyone before their first deployment and they got rid of them upon returning because although they liked the weapon they had too many NDs. Granted changing to a very different firearm right before deployment isnt exactly the brightest move someone can make.

        • Without fail, 100% percent of the people that have never handled a firearm in their life will put their finger on the trigger when you give them a gun. That’s what the trigger is for right? It is important to teach the most important yet most underrated part of the gun is the trigger guard. A safety is probably the most overrated part. Before letting a newbie handle a gun, point to the trigger guard and ask them what that is. They might know it is called a trigger guard but never thought much about its purpose. Tell them it is to help keep anything from touching the trigger because if it does, then a 1000 ft/sec projectile is going to destroy something you did not want destroyed.
          As POTG, we have to drive this home.

        • Michael,
          You have to remember that there are far more clueless people teaching others to shoot than there are responsible/knowledgeable instructors. Then you have a large number of idiots that learn to shoot watching movies.

  2. Hell, if you’re dumb enough to carry a gun in such a way that it is pointing right at your head, I can’t muster up much sorrow when the inevitable happens. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes and all that

  3. If we don’t know what brand was involved, maybe “FlashBang” shouldn’t be in the headline. Just a suggestion.

  4. You’re missing the good part! She discharged the gun, the gun did not “go off”. A first, possibly in history.

  5. Well, the lady in the video violates the rules most of the time she does the standard draw. She clearly muzzles her weak side elbow. On her modified draw, she doesn’t muzzle, but sometimes she can’t even get it out cleanly. Also, even with the little guns, she is printing. While most guys will not admit it and try to hide it, they stare at women’s chests all the time. My wife tells me women do it to, only for different reasons. The idea that right under the boobs is the place to hide anything is ridiculous. The chest area screams, “Look here!”

    I don’t get why women can’t just use regular holsters. If you’re carrying on body, you’re going to have some kind of lump somewhere. Why is a lump under the boobs more attractive than one anywhere else? I would think that is the least attractive place to be printing. Also, the guns she is hiding the video could go anywhere.

    In addition, I got a lecture by a hard-core shooting instructor that cheap, flimsy holsters, belts and harnesses should never, ever be considered for concealed carry. I agree. Yet it seems to be implied with this product that a piece of ladies’ underwear is OK to use as a holster harness. Bras are NOT designed as holster rigs! Spandex and lace are not tactical materials! If women really want bra carry, I would suggest a whole bra rig that was designed for it, not some clip on piece of Kydex.

    • There are a couple reasons women have difficulties with typical strongside carry holsters, especially IWB ones. The first is that women generally have a greater hip:waist ratio than men do. The result of this is that the handle of the gun tends to be canted inwards. Having the handle digging into their side makes the gun harder to draw and uncomfortable to wear. There is also the issue with how their clothing is designed. Men’s clothing, whether formal, casual, or business attire, it all more or less the same in base design. Women don’t have that luxury. Casual wear is radically different from formal wear for a woman. Even leaving aside the problems with dresses and skirts, women’s clothing is generally cut to fit much more closely to the woman’s body than men’s clothing. It makes printing a rather significant problem for women. This is a big part of why so many women look to mouse guns and off-body carry options.

  6. I’m thinking that, if I’m intentionally moving a gun around, sweeping various body parts, in an attempt to adjust the fit/comfort of my carry rig, I’m going to be extra super cautious about keeping my fingers off the trigger…

    • There’s also the possibility those fingers also had long nails. I once had a student with nails so long she could barely manage to load her magazines.

      • And yet ANOTHER reason many of us OWG (refuse to accept the F part of that!) miss the bigger picture when considering “others carrying.”

        Bigger lesson: it’s not all “just like me” carry.

    • I don’t want to discount the importance of muzzle discipline. But I get into arguments all the time over my belief that trigger discipline is the one, if there was only one rule. Eventually I am shown a video of a defective gun that fires even if the trigger is not touched. Well, that gun should not be in service in the first place and use of it is another form of negligence.
      Given a proper working weapon, I still believe that not touching the trigger is the most important safety rule and here is why. It won’t fire. I don’t want my gun to fire until I meant for it to. How difficult is it to truly never flag anything you are not willing to destroy? I say it is impossible. You live in an apartment and you have neighbors above you, below you, and on either side of you. If you are on a firing range you can keep it pointed down range all the time. But we don’t live on a range and I can’t have my groceries delivered there. We live in a 360 degree world and the only two “safe” options are up and down. Up, not so much so that leaves us with down. Remember the apartment? Down might not be a good idea either. But the gun doesn’t start, and remain down. You had to point it down. But before it was down it was pointing anywhere else. It really is too much to worry about and will only make you nervous and distracted from martial handling of your firearm. I understand not aiming it at anything not a target but “flagging your pinky finger” getting called out on a video is getting ridiculous.
      On the other hand, how easy is it to not touch the trigger in any situation. I would say that it is quite easy to buy a gun, load the gun, never fire the gun, handle the gun every day for 50 years and not once touch the trigger. You wouldn’t do that but it could be done easily. Much easier than never having your muzzle cross something or someone.

        • I’d say I’m in good company.
          But I figured it out a couple years ago while gun shopping for my first gun. I went to gun shows and shops just to get the feel for a gun before deciding which to buy. The entire experience gave me the creeps. Not because I was scared to handle guns, but I was so concerned with which way the gun was pointing that I was sweating nervously. I walked into one shop and every firearm under the glass case is pointed at the customers. I asked to see a Kahr PM9. The clerk reched under the counter, locked the slide back, verified empty chamber and laid it down. I picked it up, released the slide, held it firmly to see if it was comfortable. I turned the gun over to see the workmanship. Flipped it over again to see all the features. I racked the slide a couple times to see if I could easily manipulate it. The I pointed it at a spot high up on the wall to see the sight picture. Then brought it down for one more glance over. The whole time I never touched the trigger but I noticed the guy kept jumping from side to side every time I turned the gun over. I looked up at him and he looked terrified. I turned so red that I bet my skin looked as if it had been turned inside out. I realized that I must have flagged the guy ten times with a verified empty gun and he wasn’t so happy about it. I dropped the gun on the counter and just left without saying a word. Safety is extremely important to me. I am the hardest critic of NDs. But sometimes we get so caught up in the rules for rules sake that we act incredibly paranoid to the point that everyone is uncomfortable. Caution is a good thing but terror is nearly phobic.

        • ” The entire experience gave me the creeps. “

          Michael, I have a similar reaction handling guns in a gun store.

          Store employee hands me a handgun .. cleared and verified safe, and I just don’t want to do much with it. I can’t bring myself to point it around at much of anything and I sure ain’t dry firing to check out the trigger.

          Only way I figger to test a pre-purchase handgun is to rent one, take it on a hot range and actually live fire with real ammo.

        • Yes, that is what I tell new shooters. My local GS and range will give a newbie an hour lesson for $30. They start you off with standard safety information then work on grip, and dry practice, sometimes with a laser. Then they let you shoot a .22 semi auto and revolver. After that they let you test drive several guns, .38, 380, 9mm, .40, DA, SA, compact, subcompact, full size.
          Without the lesson, they let you rent a gun for five bucks and if you want to try another gun, it is included in the price. Just return it and they hand you another one.

      • With adults I agree 100%, Number One Rule is trigger discipline. The key word there is discipline; when teaching my kids from an early age about firearms the First rule I drilled into them over and over and over was never ever point the gun at anything you don’t want to destroy. This is starting at age 2-3, and the second rule I always teach is trigger discipline… when they are ready to understand. Obviously all four rules are learned (and then some) long before they actually handle or fire a live firearm.

        My thought is, how many kids point a gun at their buddies head and pull the trigger because they “thought it was unloaded”… All the trigger discipline in the world means jack if the kid pulls the trigger intentionally. Adults are a different story – Keep your damn finger off the trigger, period! I agree, you can’t have 100% muzzle safety 100% of the time, especially if “all guns are always loaded”

        • “All the trigger discipline in the world means jack if the kid pulls the trigger intentionally.”

          I’m sorry, but … HUH?

          The Four Rules are not separate, independent things.

          You don’t “pull the trigger intentionally” UNLESS you are also pointing the muzzle at something you INTEND to DESTROY. If a kid does this, it’s a safety rule teaching (or execution) failure.

  7. well, even if t wasn’t a flashbang holster, this kind of neg publicity alone will put them out of business. I for one would NEVER let my wife even consider a holster like that. never ever.

  8. I’m not defending the Flashbang holster (which I think is ridiculous) or this woman’s safety practices, but standard holsters can be extremely uncomfortable for women because of the shape of their hips. At the standard 3-4-5 O’Clock positions, the back of most handguns end up being angled into the torso with a standard holster. That leaves either appendix, or 6-O’Clock, neither of which is really ideal for a smooth draw.

    • Finger on the trigger is the fail in this case, absolutely. And yes, I’d want to be VERY comfortable with my holster and placement before I added a loaded gun to it anyway.

      I’ve carried a full size semi-auto at 2:00 in a “desk rider” leather holster for nearly ten years. The “cant” places the grip low, with the barrel resting almost paralel to the waistline, and it can be either open or concealed. My draw is fast and smooth.

      I teach armed self defense, and most of the ladies who have trouble concealing a gun are simply not willing to do the wardrobe changes that would make it fairly easy. We explore many of the on body concealed options, but I discourage the bra thing seriously. I don’t like to see anyone trying to carry a gun in a way that requires them to half undress to get at it. Once they see all of the options, and actually try the holsters (with simulators), they usually choose something far more practical, at least to start with.

      But in the end, it’s is their gun, their body and their responsibility.

  9. Wrong holster, bad choice of holster type and/or poor training or attention to trigger control. No reason for anyone that practices holstering in a safe manner to have this happen. Not sure how she could shoot herself in the eye when adjusting a bra holster though ? Just thinking about it makes me wonder what position she was in when this happened, where her trigger finger was and if the trigger got hung up on something as she was adjusting whatever.

  10. GIT YER BOOGER HOOK OFF THE BANG SWITCH!

    DON’T EVER POINT IT AT ANYTHING YOU DON’T WANT TO KILL OR DESTROY! ESPECIALLY IF SOME DUMBASS TOLD YOU IT’S UNLOADED! TREAT IT LIKE ITS LOADED EVEN WHEN YOU “KNOW” IT ISN’T.

    /ME LIVES IN A HOUSE FULL OF LOADED GUNS! /ME HAS NEVER HAD A NEGLIGENT DISCHARGE!

    • ” /ME HAS NEVER HAD A NEGLIGENT DISCHARGE!”

      Be careful with that one.

      Few that HAVE had ND’s have had one before.

      Although, I did once know a guy that bragged about having had ONLY three (one that barely missed killing his wife)…

  11. Here’s a short video of a woman deploying the Flash Bang Bra Holster at the range, supposedly with very little training.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8r6CY5UZyw

    They do conceal well without printing, but it obviously depends on the cup size and clothing style. I can certainly understand the appeal. Some bras carry so much weight that an extra pound of gun wouldn’t even be noticed.

    As with most of these news stories, we don’t know much. Make & model of gun? Make & model of holster? I submit that if the holster covered the trigger guard with effective retention, then this isn’t the holster’s fault.

  12. We can never have something idiot-proof. Life keeps inventing a better idiot. Risks must be accepted in every action. Without risk there is no reward. Its a head scratcher but no reason to stop carrying a firearm just because someone figured out how to break all the rules and shoot themselves.

  13. As a female who has carried with a flash bang holster for a couple of years, I think it’s very unfair to name flash bang when we don’t know what brand holster she was using. On my holster, the trigger is completely covered. There is no way to pull the trigger until you unholster the gun. In my opinion, it’s an excellent way to carry on-body.

    • Honest question: At any point during the draw and presentation, or re-holstering, is the muzzle pointed at your head?

      • No, you pull straight down. The gun would be pointed to your left or right. I would not reholster while wearing it, I would take it off, reholster, and put holster back on. I don’t know what the lady was doing, but it wasn’t the holster’s fault.
        I practiced wearing mine with the gun unloaded for quite awhile until I was totally comfortable with it. It took a few tries to figure out how to position the leather strap to work best for me. You can turn it where it loops down or up, each person is different. The only problem I’ve ever had was once when I didn’t double check the strap’s snap. Fortunately I was home when the gun slid down my front, still in the plastic clamshell. My fault and lesson learned. The gun is held securely by the clamshell, never had a problem with that. The only other thing I regularly check is the screw that holds the strap to the plastic.

  14. The more I see negligent discharge news the more I gravitate towards carrying in plain sight-pocket carry,OFWG fanny pack or Sneaky Pete /fake cell phone carry. If it’s legal who cares? Nothing pointed at my privates(or boobs).

    • Only real prob with the cellphone-type carry is that cellphones are a very attractive target for a snatch-type robbery.

      When cycling, the OFWG black leather fannypack I’ve modified with belt clips works very well for me…

      • Nothing to “snatch” if your holster is attached to belt loops-and yeah at my over 60 state of mind I have no problem looking goofy with a fanny pack.

  15. I get that women’s body shapes make 3:00 – 4:30 carry a problem. I have a problem with it also, but for the opposite reason. My waist goes outward at that point! But there are other options. I see a lot of women doing appendix carry. Holly Hunter played a cop in the TV series “Saving Grace.” She is tiny. She carried a Kahr P9 in an SOB holster and it was HOT. She also had an NAA .32 ACP backup in the top of her cowboy boot. I have seen women using shoulder holsters. I just think there are better options than a Spandex and lace harness.

    • “She carried a Kahr P9 in an SOB holster and it was HOT. “

      TV is TV. And then there is the real world. SOB has some real issues.

      • Based on the story in the OP, bra carry has some issues also. I was just pointing out that there are other options and they don’t all violate the “rules of fashion.”

  16. I watched the video above, and I have to say, one of the better youtube amateur informatives I’ve seen. I’m still on the fence about the value of chest carry (not actually for myself but as a viable choice), but the woman really covered just about everything and obviously worked with the holster for a while. Worth my time to watch.

  17. Melissa above is absolutely right on. My wife uses a Flash Bang. Took a lot of training with a ‘blue gun’…but I’m convinced it’s just as safe as anything I’ve used. Of course, it also has the net affect of keeping me from a spontaneous frisking of the goods…unless I know she’s not packing! Gotta make sure the money shots are coming from my gun, not hers! When I found out the name of her carry option, I said…”From now on, you flash first….then I’ll bang!” Safety first.

  18. It would be a good idea if you’re going to try out a new type of holster to wear it around the house for a while and practice your draw, reholstering, etc. WITHOUT A ROUND IN THE CHAMBER. Get the bugs worked out first.

  19. Hot damn! That woman pulling out her pink revolver is sexy, navel ring and all! Well, it’s sexy if you aren’t on the business end of that hand cannon.

  20. >>It’s hard to imagine a scenario in which a user of a bra-mounted holster could contort themselves in such a way as to look down the barrel of their own heater, but happen it did. Apparently. There’s a reason the four rules reign supreme.<<

    I have a 5th rule. Do not try to catch a falling gun.

    • Esp when it’s striker fired with a round chambered. Trusting lives to any mechanically safety is a fool’s game, and most esp when the only thing stopping it from going off is a flimsy plastic lever on the trigger that takes less than a pound of pressure in the right place to make it ready to fire. Then add into the mix that these guns are issued to a bunch of raw recruits that only know what you tell them, that received as little training as possible(the whole reason for depts going to the glocks in the first place), and were told that the little plastic lever makes it all safe now, trust the plastic, and you have the recipe for all those NDs that are happening. I find it real strange that so few seem able to see it. This stuff didnt happen back when the newbies had to carry DA/SA revolvers.

      • Trusting lives to any mechanically safety is a fool’s game…

        Which is why lives are trusted instead to following the four cardinal rules of safe firearm handling, the most important of which in this case is: keep your finger off the trigger.

        …and you have the recipe for all those NDs that are happening…

        Given that the rate of NDs is down, I have to ask: all of what NDs that are happening?

        • The ones around various departments that always seem to happen with striker fired pistols. Don’t get me wrong, an ND IS NEGLIGENT, and not the guns fault. Yet when it happens so much more often to one particular design, one must question why, whatever the overall stats might be. Imagine if overall auto fatalities went down, but fatalities in fords went up in the same year, is it not proper to question why that might be?
          We should be happy if they went down, but still question why they happen with striker pistols more than other pistol designs. Poor training is part of it, for sure. But the glock is chosen by most depts for that exact reason, quick and easy to train newbies with. Glock promotes it as a design that needs less training, which means that the recruit will be less trained. My biggest question is this, since they want cheaper training, why not just go back to DA revolvers(or never left in the first place, but that ship already sailed)? They are cheaper yet, easier to train with yet, and the kings of safety. I’ve never heard of anyone catching a DA revolver in an elevator and shooting themselves in the gut before.

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