(courtesy thinkprogress,com)

“We’re in a moment of critical mass. We have so many anti-government groups who believe the federal government is working against them, who believe Obama is secretly a Muslim, a communist, or not even an American.” That’s the money shot from Ryan Lenz of the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) in thinkprogress.com’s post Meet The Militia Rushing To Cliven Bundy’s Defense. Clearly, the statist left has citizen militias in their sights, working from Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals playbook. Specifically, Rule 12 . . .

Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)

Guess who thinkprogress’ Christie Thompson isolates? None other than James “I’m going to start killing people” Yeager. And yeah, she’s put that quote in there. Along with Yeager’s backpedalling. But the damage is done and the point is clear: the American militia movement consists of a bunch of trigger-happy losers with a few trigger-happy psycho losers. Like this:

[Professor Jack Kay of Eastern Michigan University] sees militia members who actually intend to use violence as a “very, very small minority,” he says. “Most of them are just weekend warriors who go out in the woods and do some paramilitary activity and some camouflage painting.”

Bundy’s supporters are also adamant that they love America — they just don’t agree with (or in many cases, even recognize as legitimate) its government or the laws it passes.

In other words, [Kay’s saying] the militia members are an armed, untrained rabble who consider themselves above the law. Bumbling bozos – except for the ones who “intend to use violence.” Quite the Patriot portrait eh? And while we’re reading between the lines – drawn with big, bright crayon colors – Kay intimates that the BLM’s decision not to fire on the self-styled freedom fighters was a mistake.

“Now that the government stood down on this one i think they’re going to claim this as a huge victory. It really is to me the perfect storm for the militia to increase their attention and increase their recruitment and get ready for the next standoff.”

Kay’s certainly right about the militia marketing aspect of the Bundy Ranch confrontation. And their timing is just so. As Nick pointed out over a pint of Alchemy last night, a large part of America is itching for a showdown. A battle where they can draw a line in the sand against America’s bloated, bureaucratic, unconstitutional federal government – and begin to roll back Uncle Sam’s endless incursions into personal liberty.

I prey that battle happens at the ballot box. And respect those who understand the need for a plan B like, say, America’s founding fathers. Meanwhile and in any case, this article was written the day before Cliven Bundy’s racist remarks hit the net. Imagine how it would have looked after. And expect  more of the same in the weeks ahead.

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158 Responses to Militia Demonization Begins. Continues.

  1. If memory serves, this country was FOUNDED by a bunch of angry guys with guns who didn’t want to pay their taxes. Just sayin’.

      • quit using my roads. quit using my sewer system. quit using my fire department. quit using my hospitals. don’t get buried in this country. clean my air from pollution you caused, and oh yea. leave, then repay the difference between the wear and tear you put on my roads, the sewer system, the pollution you caused, the resources used in those fire trucks, the resources used to power the hospital and repay me for the power you used at the hospital the day you were born until the day you leave. plus $10,000 for the five years of your elementary school education then we can talk about the difference between what we provided you and what you paid us, you do get a refund. every year to buy guns 😉

        • you do realize that every road, hospital and what not was paid for by American citizens already right? how about how regular citizens built all the gas and electric networks and have bailed out the government with their own money multiple times. there would be no federal government with out private citizens supporting it. but you know we didn’t build that or united the country or bring it into the 21st century. just look back not even 100 yrs

      • Actually, it worked out pretty well. Few casualties and the whiskey tax that set the whole thing off was repealed in 1801.

      • Wow, reading all of your comments on this subject (the Bundy stand-off) over the past few days, it has become glaringly obvious what a government tool you are.

      • Actually, his intended point was that long-term government assistance like section 8 housing, food stamps, etc., creates a dependency culture amongst blacks that is akin to slavery. Admittedly, he articulated the point poorly, but the gist of his comment was spot on.

        • Thanks for saying this, Joe. I guess we’re just going to have to keep reminding people about this. I encourage folks to go listen to the entire Bundy video before making a judgment about the man’s values. He’s not saying Blacks should be slaves, he says “Negroes” (his word), entrapped in public programs, have simply exchanged one kind of slavery for another. He’s talking about liberty and freedom—for everybody. Bundy is no racist, but that doesn’t matter much, I’m sad to say, for the erstwhile “conservative” media (are you listening Glen Beck?) who seem to be as hard at work demonizing this elderly rancher, who wants nothing more than to protect his way of life, as the leftist media they claim to oppose.

          Make no mistake: the militia’s arrival, along with Bundy’s extended family and neighbors, saved this mans life and the lives of his close family members. And now they’re being demonized by the east-coast media elite as a bunch of gun-crazy thugs who can’t wait to use their itchy trigger-fingers to shoot honest government representatives who are, after all, just trying to protect the land. But who are the real thugs? Who got there first with sniper’s rifles aimed at an old man and his family? Who threatened private citizens with dogs and tazers? Who slammed people to the ground and were obviously quite willing to beat the crap out of anybody they could catch? Who reportedly shot a prize bull in his pen . . . from a helicopter? You want thugs? There were plenty there but they didn’t drive their own pick-ups to get there.

          The Big Lie of propaganda only works when it isn’t opposed by a Big Truth. Dozens of cell-phone cameras show what actually happened when the militia and private citizens began arriving at the Bundy ranch. For me the most telling images are of the militia member who’d traveled some distance to get to the Bundy ranch. A well spoken history teacher, he immediately defied the media image of the collection of slavering gun-crazies looking for trouble. He said he came to help. I hope America listens.

        • In what context did he need to bring up Blacks? Also, why didn’t he direct that toward Whites on public assistance? Go through West Virginia, Kentucky, etc, and you will find no shortage of Whites on the government teat.

        • If anyone seeks truth, the full video is available and tells a different story than the media projects.

      • No he did not say blacks were better off as slaves. He asked the question IF they were better off as slaves to a landowner or a government. Bundy said nothing “racist”. When Media Matters, another thoroughly dishonest bunch, aired this they cropped out the parts that did not support the propaganda.

        This article describes quite accurately the method of the left and the intellectual dishonesty of the Southern Poverty Law Center. The left, or Democrats, liberals, statists etc, HAS to marginalize and discredit Bundy. They HAVE to nip this anti tyrannical government stuff int he bud. They cannot do this with fact, truth or logic. They MUST do this by attacking the messenger. There is much ado about Bundy supporters bringing weapons to this however, no mention is made of the pointing of rifles at people taking pictures. No mention of the tazing and K9 at the confrontation with the BLM thugs. Unfortunately, I believe that this will not be the last incident of this type. It will occur again however, without the numbers the Bundys had, the next government instigated confrontation will not end well for the people. And make no mistake, the government HAS to have a bundyesque incident to exert its authority and illustrate the futility of resistance.

        • Mark,

          Whenever someone says something racist and ignorant, they always backtrack it the following day to clarify that they were “just wondering”. (As if he doesn’t agree with the idea, he was just tossing it out so that the racist jackboots who were flocking to his militia could decide for themselves.)

          But when you pay attention to the “liberal” media, you would see that they never tried to attack the messenger. They just pointed out that he was stealing from the taxpayers, and that the courts had repeatedly ruled that his claims were nonsense. There was no need to attack the messenger, the message itself is wrong in more ways than anyone can count.

          Although Bundy is a hate-monger, he is actually not stupid. He has played the right-wing, talk radio, Fox News and even a few Senators. He has tricked a wide variety of other simpleminded thugs to fight for his cause.

          He is getting you and other people like you to do his bidding. He has somehow convinced you that his right to graze cattle (for free) on someone else’s land is the moral equivalent of free speech. It isn’t. It is trespassing and theft. You and I and every other taxpayer is footing the bill for his illegal activities.

          We are all fortunate that he decided to show his true colors. When he explained that he was a racist, a terrorist, and a traitor to his country, a few of the true patriots that had signed on to his army decided that this was not the hill they want to die on. (So to speak.)

          Rand Paul and Dean Heller, the two teabagger Senators who had endorsed his army, both decided to be unavailable for comment when Bundy started preaching the advantages of slavery. Rand Paul has been known to say some really stupid things, but the idea of owning another human being seems to go against even his libertarian leanings. Maybe it was the part where the slaves were routinely beaten into submission, or maybe it was the part where they were denied liberty for the rest of their lives and their children’s lives.

          But in case you are with Cliven Bundy, and still “wondering” whether torture and slavery might be better than a cycle of poverty, it isn’t. People in poverty occasionally rise above it and lift themselves up. Not always, but the opportunity is there. They do it through hard work, self reliance, and a willingness to turn away from federal subsidy.

          Unlike Bundy, who is willing to fight to the death (of other people) to preserve his federal subsidies. Nothing is more dishonorable. Nothing is more anti-American. Nothing is more repulsive to the ideals that our founding fathers fought and died for.

        • So when you say “backtrack”, you mean they pointed out the unedited video of what they actually said? As opposed to the edited video that makes it sound like they said something else? Ok, well, why didn’t you just say that? Leaving yourself room to backtrack?

        • Try again Dave. The unedited video predates the edited version. You were duped, get over it.

        • Paul,

          Even the right wing hate blogs understand why his statement is wrong, and know the difference between the original statement and the “clarification”.
          http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/04/24/heres-video-of-cliven-bundy-making-those-racial-remarks-about-the-negro-and-slavery/

          In case you still don’t understand what is wrong with Bundy’s statement, everything.

          First of all, white people (not black people) get the vast majority (about 67%) of government benefits. (http://www.yourblackworld.net/2013/03/black-news/white-people-make-up-42-of-the-poor-but-take-in-whopping-69-of-government-benefits/)

          Second, most of the other “theories” that Bundy repeated are are myths. (http://charlotte.cbslocal.com/2013/07/02/poverty-in-america-myths-about-welfare-recipients/)

          Third, the only welfare recipient in the picture is Cliven Bundy, who is freeloading off the system. In fact, his family fortune comes from a free government program. To call him a “welfare queen” is an insult to welfare queens.

        • Are you obtuse? The video was edited to incur a bias not inherently implied.
          Also, you are playing the game of using figures to lie for you. Go and look up those numbers compared to population representation to get a real clue. Also see if you can find data referencing those numbers to length of time spent on assistance.
          Or continue your willful myopia, just refrain from trying to peddle it in my presence.

        • Paul,

          If you check the links, I included one that was adjusted for population representation. Basically blacks were only about 1% more likely to be receiving public assistance.

        • As you conveniently ignore the parts of my statement that would challenge your pseudofactual statistics….
          Make the facts say what you want, nothing new. Reality doesn’t support your claims.

        • Of course, “Your Black World” is hardly a credible website for such data, go figure!

        • Paul,

          You have gotten to the point in your argument where you are trying to defend slavery. I don’t care how many cute excuses you come up with to make “wondering” sound like high-minded discussion, it won’t work. Slavery is against the laws of God and man. And when you find yourself “wondering” whether slavery was all that bad, then your entire argument is morally bankrupt.

          If you find yourself agreeing with Bundy, then you really should be searching your soul, rather than coming with with silly responses to everything I say. Slavery was a dark stain on the history of many countries, including America. Modern estimates are that about 11 million slaves died as a result of the transatlantic trade. Only a racist would even mention this in the same breath as the welfare culture. Only an ignorant racist would “clarify” the statement rather than apologizing.

          You think it makes me “obtuse” because I don’t understand your brilliant argument about how black people are inherently lazy. I understand what you implied perfectly well. I just reject it.

          Just because you don’t read websites with the word “black” in them does not make them liars. Just because you think “time on public assistance” is relevant does not mean that it is.

          Also, I am not your Google. If you have statistics proving that welfare is as bad as slavery, then bring them on. Otherwise, you are just another Cliven Bundy, trying to cover up one of the worst evils in history by pointing to the broken culture of the victims.

          Yes, there are plenty of people who have given up on finding a job, and fallen into a system of reliance on public assistance. Their work ethic is broken and they don’t know any better. But they have the freedom to fix it if they want to. And for someone who claims to believe in freedom, you seem to think that public assistance is an argument against it.

          But your argument that dependence on welfare is mostly a black problem is irrelevant. Even if it were true, it does not give a white rancher the right to graze his cattle for free on federal lands. In fact, just the opposite. If welfare is wrong, then surely it is just as wrong for white ranchers as for black teenagers.

          Should black people lose their right to bear arms if they accept government handouts? How about their right to vote?

          I stand by my original statement. If Cliven Bundy were black, Fox News would be calling for him to be arrested. Sean Hannity would be calling him a “thug”. Bill O’Reilly would be calling him a “freeloader”. And the trigger-happy gun nuts in the all-white militias would be pointing their guns at him, rather than at the Feds.

          And you know it.

        • It seems we have gotten to the point in the discussion wbere the liberal realizes his false facts don’t impress.
          Now he decides he can read minds, or convince others that he does. You think that your telling me what I am thinking, saying, or supposedly defending, makes it so?
          Hardly. I merely pointed out the serious flaws in your argument.
          Do not attempt to think for me, you are not up to the task.

  2. ##quote##[Kay’s saying] the militia members are an armed, untrained rabble who consider themselves above the law. #####

    Just because I don’t agree with her perspective doesn’t make the point any less valid.

    What right do we have as gun owners to decide “to damnation with the ballot box?” .That’s a question I’ve yet to see Yeager and Co. answer satisfactorily.

    Civil war is not a joke, a war game, or a weekend past time.The Founders did use violence to establish the United States, but NOT until every option for a nonviolent resolution was exhausted. It was only when the British made it clear they were going to use force that war took place.
    Violence is a last resort, not the first one. For all their brave words about freedom, those folks on the Bundy Ranch -and Cliven Bundy himself- are harbingers of tyranny themselves. For there is no tyranny like pointless violence caused by egotistical posturing.

    • Sure it’s a “last resort” but by whose measure? I havent seen the ballot box do any good in my lifetime regardless mob rule by majority opinion or oligarchical rule by opinion of a selected few are neither tolerable to me.

      So by whose measure are we to check the arrival of the “last resort”? Yours? Mine? Bundys? Honest question because if all of our lines are drawn at different points there will never be a point in which enough lines match up to make a difference. Just a series of insignificant flare ups that are easily put down and reinforce the image of pockets of dangerous radicals threatening soccer moms. While all of us are fragmented and distracted the states line in the sand has been consistent for a century or more now. It just keeps taking money, property, control and it will keep on taking it until there is none left to take.

      • In the specific case of the Bundy group, I’ve yet to see any credible statement justifying violence given their circumstances.

        Are the Feds actively shooting at them? Has the government specifically threatened their lives? Note that the Revolutionary War started because the British were fixing to enforce a gun confiscation order. Show me a DHS memo authorizing the Feds to shoot Bundy on sight, and I’ll concede the point . But that’s clearly not the case here.

        No, they’re angry about the government being huge. While that’s a VERY valid greivance, what’s Bundy done about it besides run his mouth? Has he voted? Has he campaigned for politicial action?

        More to the point, when was the last time those folks walking about with rifles voted?
        And who the heck is Cliven Bundy to decide he’s going to provoke violence against the Federal government without exhausting every non-violent resource first ? If one must go to war, then so be it. But it had best be a doggone good reason. “Ego” doesn’t count in my book.

        • Yes, there were actually statements from the governor of NV that he hoped militia members coming into the state had “made funeral plans.”

          As well as the extreme heavy-handedness of the BLM even BEFORE any body came to Bundy’s defense, which prompted the militia response.

          I mean the BLM posted snipers above Bundy’s property before any of this happened.

          Bundy may not have paid his fees in years, but when it comes to the guns-drawn and intimidating response, BLM and government agencies started it 100%.

        • Why don’t you show me an ATF memo authorizing the murder of a 16-year-old boy and his unarmed mother at Ruby Ridge? Or authorizing the murder of 83 men, women and children by incineration at Waco. The powers that be know better than to put such in writing, but the fact that no one was fired, much less imprisoned, and some were in fact promoted, tells the tale for me.

          If the militia had not shown up, Bundy and probably his family would be dead, right now. That is what all those armed men came for.

        • No, they’re angry about the government being huge.

          I think the size is a secondary concern. The primary concerns are the corruption and incompetence.

        • There was no violence from the Bundy supporters. The aggression was from the government. Being ready and prepared to react to violence is not being violent. I see a similarity between what you are saying and the Jews in Nazi Germany. The question is, do 6 million have to die before you act.

        • Mark,

          The feds are just trying to enforce the law. If you show up with armed terrorists in order to avoid jail time (or in this case, a court order), you can’t complain that the feds started it.

          If that were the case, then every thug that steals a police car would get a gang of thugs to accuse the police of violence when they come to get their car back.

        • @ Dave Enforcing the law doesn’t require them to go in heavily armed and confiscating cattle. The Federal government could have put a lien on his property or collected his fine some other way, but chose to go in the most aggressive manner possible. Just because something is in law, doesn’t mean the government has the right to abuse its power to enforce it. (ie water cannons against protestors marching against Jim crow laws).

          Oh, and like many other modern Liberals, I find that you tend to overuse the term “subsidize” not only in this but in many other comment threads. With your line of “thinking” when you file for the default 6000 dollars in tax deductibles, or file for the mortgage deductible, or file as a married couple instead of individual, you are being “subsidized” by the Government.

        • Yellow:

          The Feds did put a lien on his property. In fact, they tried every peaceful means before resorting to rounding up his cattle. He simply ignored the liens and the law for 20 years.

          When the Feds finally tired of his game, they decided to enforce the lien in the most common manner. When the Feds went to round up the cattle, Bundy rounded up every crackpot and terrorist he could find, and turned a police action into a range war.

          The Feds could have (and should have) confiscated his cattle 20 years ago. They gave him time to file (and ultimately lose) his claim in court first, so that there would be no way anyone could claim they acted without fair warning. Then, just to be on the safe side, they let him file an appeal. Then, when he lost the appeal, they gave him another year to stop trespassing.

          When he refused, the Feds did what they promised to do all along, and started rounding up cattle. The only reason they came with protection is because Bundy threatened violence back in 2012 over the same issue. (http://www.factandmyth.com/conspiracy-theory/cliven-bundys-cattle-and-the-federal-land-grab)

          So basically, everything the right wing media said about the “evil Feds” turned out to be wrong. Yet they continue to defend him because he is a white guy with a gun. Disgusting, dishonest, and wrong.

          Turn to any web page anywhere. Even Fox News, which openly supported bloodshed, is finally starting to realize that Bundy is just another welfare queen who got his panties in a wad because the government tried to shut off the free money.

    • We as gun owners, and every other person (legally) in this country as well, has EVERY right to say “to hell with the ballot box.” When it ceases to be an effective method to enact change in our government, it is our *responsibility* to say it. And guess what. With every passing year, that ballot box is becoming a little less effective.

      The name is escaping me, but someone once said “America is at that awkward place where it’s too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards.”

      • The ballot box is still effective at the local levels. Obama may have used the fed, particularly the IRS, to target dissension but state governments are swinging red. The ridiculous overreach of the Obama Administration makes Bush look like a Liberatarian and that has pushed some places more conservative. It’s still a long battle, but as “Red States” enjoy a better economy and become stronger the overall Fed becomes weaker.

        It’s not too late to turn this around unless the actions similar to the BLM start becoming more commonplace. Here in Texas, Greg Abbott is already having a showdown with BLM. We need more states saying “No” to the Fed. We need to keep electing local leaders who have that kind of backbone or this will never get turned around.

      • Just because you lose elections does not justify the use of force. Ever.

        That the laws are ignored, perverted by bizarre court rulings might justify violence, but I don’t ever want to see that day.

        • You mean, like the last 15-20 years? “I have a pen and a phone”? BLATANT exercise of authority he does not possess, as opposed to at least some effort to hide it in the past? Open racial discrimination in the application of laws? Like that?

      • The only DUTY mentioned in the Declaration of Independence: “But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, IT IS THEIR DUTY, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.”

        And for you students of the law, the Declaration of Independence is the first legal document of this country – it is an establishment document, along with the Constitution.

    • I’m with you. Liberty is worth fighting for. That is something I believe. Yet I am not eager to think on how a shooting war means possibly facing down people who are “just following orders” and many how are well intentioned but have decided to support the other side.

      There are no winners in a civil war. Just one side who loses less than the other.

      • While I agree that a first contact may well produce injured or killed who were “just following orders”, after that day there would be no such. When it is obvious that you are entering a life threatening situation, the question of “why?” rises to your lips instantly. Resignations/refusals would be the order of the day until the situation was peacefully settled, since murdering millions would no longer be possible, as the current administration clearly believes it is now.

      • Perhaps if it was peppered with strong language. . .

        I suppose we’re required to talk endlessly while our rights and freedoms are continuously eroded so that we can claim the moral high ground when we’re all enslaved by a socialist police state.

        • Ironic, as most real life socialist police states were created after a revolution intended to “liberate the people.”

        • Well, ST, that is the damned truth. The only reason I would not support the obvious necessity of a Constitutional Convention is the fear of it being taken over by a fruitcake dictator faction with a cult leader like Obama or Hillary in charge to become the first emperor.

        • Someone should explain to me what rights were trampled that Bundy could be said to have had. I’m curious.

          I do know that if you believed the public descriptions of their supposed history on the federal land made by Bundy and his daughter, you might think some right he refers to was trampled by an overweaning government.

          I don’t mean the rights according to Bundy. I mean the rights according to the actual land records, the date of his father buying the base property, the text of cooperative agreements Bundy and his father signed with BLM, the rights given that Bundy’s father did stop ranching for a spell, the actual rights as known to ranchers in the west.

          What rights of Bundies were trampled?

    • Where was the violence perpetrated by the supporters in Bunkerville? The only actions that could be taken as violence were the actions of the federal agents towards the protestors. Which was not surprisingly different from the actions taken against the protestors in Seattle, or the occupy Wall St mess, just on a lesser scale. The difference in Bunkerville was that legally armed citizens were able to show that they were armed and ready and defend themselves should the federal agents start shooting at people. Like they did at Kent State.

    • At some point, when the Constitution is ignored and rule of law is a myth from times past, people will have to say “damn the ballot box”, it will have been proven ineffective. Granted, this has been an on-going problem since the earliest days of the republic, but one can only ignore growing problems for so long.

    • Do you include surrendering all of your constitutional rights to be part of “every option for a nonviolent resolution”?

  3. the fact that Bundy said what he said does not make his argument against the feds less valid. and this from a Black man.

    there are lots of positions I disagree with, but when we get to the point that someone is not so PC in speech and thought that we lose sight of finding validity in their argument, than we are the mob. The Bible is replete with examples of behavior and speech that can be (and is) offensive to many. Does that mean we should not embrace our Judeo-Christian heritage as country or does it mean we need to try to understand the message? Hell, even Harry (palms) Reid and Joe (double buck) Biden said some racist things about Obama when he first ran for presidency. where is the liberal PC crowd on that? oh, thats right, all is forgiven.

    Look, Bundy is a knuckle-dragging ass. got it. but – he has a point. the federal govt has too much power and when you send 200+ armed officers who took up sniper positions to enforce a friggin money judgment, there is a problem. as for his comments about Blacks and slavery, well, he may have a point. Others have said this. Perhaps liberal should remember the words of their own NY Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan who decried out of wedlock births and the decline of the Black family post-civil rights law passage.

    • Not disagreeing with your statement here but just adding to it. Desegregation allowed more Black people ( and other minorities ) to move where they pleased. Many moved into the urban centers where poor white immigrants lived looking for job opportunity. The city social, political, and commercial structure tends to work like a pyramid or something similar. There is always a bottom and there will always be someone to fill the bottom spot if the demographics there manage to find their way up. Depending on how flexible the system is and how much upward mobility there is some people may never find their way up and continue to live on the bottom. It tends to happen in areas where people are locked in via taxation, lack of transportation, lack of security, etc. The Message by Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five eloquently illustrates that very bleak situation.

  4. Two points. Law enforcement understood quickly that multiple armed men on the high ground have an advantage over K9’s, tasers and government snipers.

    Second is the “milita” that arrived doesn’t impress. At the next encounter, 100-200 well armed citizens show as a cohesive unit and positioned for mutual supportive fire, then every law enforcer must weigh sworn duty with the possibility of certain death.
    Saying that, to get 100-200 citizens on the same page, with discipline and taking the risk to roll back government thugs requires leadership currently missing.

    • I thought the last sentence of your post about halfway through and then you wrote it, great stuff.

      So leadership and cohesion are definitely an issue, but what about the fact that any base organization or communication is going to almost guaranteed to be done digitally? Will citizens even be able to organize once the cat is out of the bag and all this tracking data and cataloged email is put to use. Random tin foil thought of the day maybe.

    • While your comments correctly describe the military aspects of this particular confrontation, the fact that men with guns were there to oppose the Feds’ ridiculous actions required that they KILL those men in order to get into position to quietly assassinate Bundy. That could not be done without the people of the US knowing about it, so they withdrew. The willingness to stand your ground in the face of such threatened violence was more necessary than interlocking fields of fire or whatever. Winning militarily against the US government is a really stupid goal. Making sure all Americans have a chance to discover WTF is going on is much more feasible and desirable.

      In Waco, the Feds succeeded in keeping everyone including the press several miles away, or I suspect there would have been unarmed civilians standing in front of those tanks. And armed ones behind them. For some reason, at Bundy’s place that was not possible, or he would be dead.

      • The fight will not be won with bullets. The fight will best be won with concepts and words. Sun Tzu knew that. Ho Chi Minh knew that. Al Quaida knows that. Putin knows that. And the militia members know that. Observe and learn.

  5. To my knowledge no one in the modern militia movement has shot innocent people. However Floyd Lee Corkens shot a security guard and intended on murdering everyone at the Family Research Council then smear Chick-Fil-A sandwiches in their faces. He got the info on the Family Research Council from the Sourthern Poverty Law Centera list of “hate groups”.

    So SPLC is more dangerous than these militias they are speaking of.

      • Oh, really?
        Which “modern militia movement” did that?
        If you think Tim McVeigh and a couple of unnamed FBI informants are the “modern militia”…

        … I guess I should point out that McVeigh did attend one Michigan Militia meeting before getting thrown out for advocating violent action.

  6. Hopefully these folks don’t discover TTAG’s very own FirearmConcierge. His nuggets make Yeager look tame in comparison:

    FirearmConcierge: Listen, I’m not saying I … but another 20 or 30 dead kids would really dress out my balance sheet.”

  7. Yes the BLM backed down because of potential bad press. As far as the southern poverty pimps they NAILED Obama with that description. You are what you do. The so-called militia movement will only get bigger-with or without guys like Yeager.

  8. “We have so many anti-government groups who believe the federal government is working against them”

    When the government uses laws to make their actions legal while giving average citizens no legal recourse against them, then yes the fed is working against us.

    To put it another way, the government may not be AGAINST us but is is certainly FOR them. I thought the government was supposed to be FOR us to protect us AGAINST them.

    Yet people are supporting government no matter how intrusive they become?

  9. One thing I’d like to say. Being old enough to have been a full voting adult in the 80s, seeing what happened through the 90s, the loss of 2a rights, the demonetization of militias and peoples of the gun.

    It is refreshing, and inspiring that we have the internet to sidestep the MSM and their ilk for information. I have so much hope, in that, this time the progressive/liberal/statist cannot stop the signal, cannot alter it and spoon feed it to us! The constant push back by the peoples of the gun is Inspiring & Heartwarming!

    We have a voice like never before.

  10. We are first and foremost in a culture war. Any truth or facts about Bundy and the BLM have been displaced with lies and mischaracterization on both sides. Each has an agenda and Bundy and BLM are just pawns.

    The BLM has long poorly reported history of being government thugs not just in this case but with native American Indian Reservations.

    For Yeager and Co., this is just one more example of Gov’t. Overreach.

    In times like these, a little civil disobedience is probably a good thing. However, optics and words are more important in our 24/7 media/social media world where 88% of the population will make great leaps of assumption and create false facts because they do not bother reading beyond the headline or doing even a bit of research.

    Yeager and Bundy probably have factual and legitimate gripes, but how they have gone about things has been lost as well as any sympathy.

    Even during the revolution many in charge with the continental army made sure that the British were seen as the bad guys by not doing stupid things, like firing first, the lesson for today is the same, you must win hearts and minds so if the day comes, you will be seen on the side of right,

    The culture war is a PR war – we are still learning PR warfare.

    • Seems harder than ever to paint the British as the bad guys. MSM outlets were running wild with the Bundys “women at the front” thing. Because they were the monsters for having women there while the feds were just saints doing their job pointing guns at women.

      Today at Lexington it would have been the reckless and irresponsible radicals who put their sons and neighbors in harms way by virtue of the honorable British simply trying to do their jobs.

      There is seemingly no wrong the gov can do the way the MSM reports it. If Uncle Sams gun is in your face he’s just doing his job and you’re putting yourself in harms way.

      • I don’t know if he was representative of the people there but the guy who talked about putting women in the front sounded more like Saddam Hussien than Thomas Paine.

  11. Civil War is not joke and no sane individual would advocate such a thing, lightly or otherwise. That said, the government and it’s mushrooming army of unelected bureaucrats is metastasizing, and like the tumor they have become will not stop of their own accord. The DC crowd doesn’t vote Socialist out any higher conviction than the expansion of their already cushy berth. But the solution need not be an either or, serf or renegade.

    There is such a thing as Irish Democracy as Prof Glenn Reynolds has pointed out. No matter how big they are there are still more of us and a surprising amount of what they want relies on voluntary compliance. Arizona scrapped it’s traffic cams, not because of the public outcry but because the entire state ignored the program altogether and the state realized it would take more men than the entirety of all law enforcement, federal and state in Arizona just to enforce the ticketing system. Never surrender your weapons to a tyrant, but equally never forget your mind is the primary. Has anybody ever encountered a bureaucrat, that blind, soulless, emotional pygmy who is universally the same that they couldn’t out think?

    • I’m interested in what you said about the traffic cams. Do you have any info/links on that?

    • You’re onto something. Essentially one defeats a bureaucrat by forcing them to work. If a significant number of citizens simply applied for something, sent letters requesting something and made phone calls to the first bureaucracy that came to mind the system would logjam and begin to break down. We do out number them but they take us on piecemeal and alone where they have the advantage. Organizing into groups that can act to mutual benefit is the way we’ll eventually win.

      • I’m not sure you are correct. The ATF is currently overwhelmed by requests for form 4s for NFA weapons, etc, but far from folding, they simply negotiate a 12-month waiting queue, which could always get longer and longer. If everybody simultaneously demands a bureaucrat’s attention, he’ll simply tell you where the line forms and go back to sleep.

    • The fairly intelligent bureaucrats became contractors. This works in our favor even more. Remember the Sequester? Contractors weren’t going to be paid; they walked. The “Essential Personnel” that kept the wheels turning were primarily contractors; the Fed managers didn’t know how to DO anything except to call meetings. So they got vicious and made public pain to restart the contract funds. There’s a lesson in that.

  12. “We have so many anti-government groups who believe the federal government is working against them, who believe Obama is secretly a Muslim, a communist, or not even an American.”

    …well, it’s pretty hard to argue against the communist part.

  13. Damn, I didn’t know Obama wasn’t American! Haha
    The whole claim that he is a Muslim wouldn’t suprise me, he doesn’t seem to follow any religion now that I think about it.

    • Give it a rest. He has stated that he’s a Christian. Maybe we should move to more advanced criteria that what mythological deity someone believes in, anyway.

  14. This is like watching two, chickenhead broads cat fight over some POS, no-account dude…

    It would be laughable if it haven’t gotten so serious.

  15. Let’s have a bit of perspective here.

    1. Was Obama racist when he said that Trayvon Martin could have been his son?
    2. Was the mainstream media racist by calling George Zimmerman a white Hispanic?
    3. Have you ever heard a person in their 70s / 80s / 90s use a politically incorrect term for race?
    4. How much do we pay “comedians” like Chris Rock to use the words like Negro and Nigger?

    Take a moment and flush politically correct down the damn toilet. It will not save your life. Look past the “white guilt” that the media wants you to have. Look past the race that you happen to be born with and see the massive control weapon of political correctness. Say the wrong word in the wrong way – as the wrong race – and your job is gone. Make an off-color joke and your heart is a sea of blackness.
    The media doesn’t care about the truth in your message unless your delivery is acceptable to them. Of course, the left gets a pass.

    Clive Bundy is not politically correct. Yes, he broke grazing fee laws. Every finger that has touched a screen or keyboard on this site has also broken the law. His property was seized, and some of his animals were killed. I don’t think a nasty email would have worked. Bundy did not have an image consultant, or a speech writer. He doesn’t realize that he needs to hold his open hand above his head to emphasize his points (because that resonates with focus groups). Yet he was still targeted for government over reach. The same style of government who will serve a no-knock warrant with a SWAT team to get a baby deer out of an animal shelter. The same violently intolerant government that breaks into houses and shoots dogs.

    As I’ve said before, the .gov desperately wants to eliminate independence and independent thought. They want gun owners just like us to say “Well, he broke the law” and “We are a nation of laws.” Votes and nasty emails didn’t save us from the SAFE Act. They didn’t repeal Obamacare, or stop gun confiscation in CT. Gun confiscation continues in CA. The Arms Trade Treaty has been signed by John Kerry. Don’t even get me started on the multitude of ways that we are taxed in this nation. Yet we are to accept these injustices without complaint. Not only will action against them result in government penalty, but also vilification by other gun owner. Many of the posters here still support the ATF when they raid business who commit crimes against paperwork or break a law that is a question of semantics.

    I’ll say this again as I’ve said it before: many of TTAG will be too weak and cowardly to ever take a stand. God forbid a leader says something racist or politically incorrect. Perhaps he broke a law. Maybe he didn’t pay tax number 27 to the fullest extent. Do you think our current political leaders don’t bend and break the law? They violate the constitution routinely, and rob banks from the inside.

    As to me, I’ve already made the commitment that I will not confiscate firearms from responsible citizens. I will not blindly follow orders. That commitment has cost me on the job, and I may not ever promote. I haven’t been chosen to work the range because I have decried some of our tactics and lack of training. That’s politically incorrect in law enforcement.

    A great nation was created by men and women with strong and independent ideals. That fight was long and bloody. It will not remain great unless that spirit remains. Some of our Founding Fathers were imperfect men. Slave owners, even. Yet they created the unity to fight together. I know some of that unity remains. I pray it is not completely lost.

    • Its more comfortable to justify inaction if you can claim that the action wasn’t for pure enough reasons ideologically. Note this, I have yet to see a post here by one of the ‘militia’ who went to the Bundy place.
      There is a reason we use words, it’s what we’re comfortable with, some people are more comfortable with a rifle than a keyboard.

      I love this blog and enjoy the time I spend here but I’m not fooling myself. I’m blathering away with a bunch of mostly like minded people and accomplishing nothing but my own entertainment.

      At least I don’t denigrate those who actually are out there on the line, actually doing something to stem the tide of tyranny.

      Not to put too fine a point on it but I think there is a huge element of suppressed shame and cowardice in some of the comments here regarding the things real people actually do to expand or reinforce our rights. In some ways that’s much sicker than simply doing nothing at all.

    • I don’t deny for a second that it may take the judicious expenditure of ammunition to correct the problem of The Federal Cancer at some point in the future.

      But, let’s point out some cold truths here. One, the SAFE act was initiated by a STATE government:the man the blame is Andrew Cuomo and the NY State Legislature, not Barrack Obama.

      Two: I’ll restate that civil war isn’t a game. It is not to be begun on a whim, or for public relations. Many here have stated that the Federal overreach has long past the point of tolerance, and that we’ve turned into a nation of gutless turds for even tolerating it this long.

      Then, we must label the Founders as gutless turds for tolerating British tyranny for as long as they did. Surprisingly they didn’t reach for the musket as soon as King George did something silly. They tried to work within the system first, and when it was clear the system was resorting to unlawful violence to settle the matter, that’s when war was begun.

      Not before. Starting a rebellion should only be done under the most dire of circumstances. A land dispute with the BLM over cattle grazing ain’t it. The government deciding to arrest innocent people without charges? That’s a good reason.

      Yet all this chest thumping was strangely absent when the Justice Department said it was OK to kill Americans without due process. Ditto when the Lautenberg Act was passed, which strips civil rights of people without due process of law. I won’t even get started about the Affordable Care Act or the government contributing to the murder of Agent Brian Terry via Fast and Furious.

      Why is it that it’s OK to start a long, painful civil war over some guys ranch, but not OK when Americans are illegally killed by their own government? Wheres the militia for Brian Terrys family?

      • I agree that the actions of the BLM were insufficient to start a war. Thank God for that. However, the aforementioned injustices that you and I have referred to (Obamacare, taxation, SWAT raids, gun control, spying, etc.) can be justly added to a list of grievances of the American people from the overreach of the federal government. Some of these things are in fact similar to what our Founding Fathers mentioned.

        I absolutely agree that war should be avoided whenever feasible. I desire peace, and have seen violence first hand. I pray that we can peaceably return our nation to a government that respects the rights of the individual.

        • Then why didn’t the American people speak out against the Patriot Act, Internment/Detaining/Kidnapping at the 2003 RNC in New York, etc.?

          If Obama were in office when those things happened, there would have been riots. And no, I’m not an Obama supporter; I don’t play into the whole “party line”, for either party. It’s ridiculous that I have to pre-emptively say that, but on TTAG, you’re automatically an Obama supporter if you don’t blame him for everything.

      • “SAFE act was initiated by a STATE government:the man the blame is Andrew Cuomo and the NY State Legislature, not Barrack Obama”

        At least one person here gets it. Everyone else is busy blaming “liberals” and Obama for everything, and missing the big picture.

        The Two-Party (false) left-right paradigm is working exactly as intended.

        • I blame statist politicians and voters. Obama is indeed guilty, but so are a host of other politicians. Neither of the Bushes were great presidents. Regarding statism (the idea that more government is fundamentally more important than the freedom and liberty of the individual being governed), I consider most politicians to be guilty until proven innocent. Many are partially guilty. Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, Ron Paul, and a vocal minority are part of the few politicians who are decrying big government and advocating for freedom.

          I’m also not stupid enough to think that gay marriage rights or abortion freedoms will save our nation. Those social issues have apparently pushed many on the fence to the Democratic party. I’m much more interested in a limited government, balanced budget, and liberty. I perfectly fine with my taxpayer dollars not being used to fund the death of a viable baby from someone who choses to use abortion as birth control. As such I’ll be voting for Independents and Republicans. The current exception will be a continued vote for Gov Jerry Brown, as he at least is somewhat supportive of the 2nd Amendment (at least amongst CA politicians) – unless of course a more viable option presents itself.

      • It is very difficult to get into a revolutionary snit after the shooting is over. That’s why nothing came of Waco, nothing came of Fast and Furious, etc. The difference here was that if the planned shooting had taken place, the war would have started RIGHT NOW, because defenders had made the commitment to actually be present, and the gubt couldn’t stop them without shooting them, too. The reason the BLM backdown took so long, I am sure, is because that shooting was actually being discussed at the highest levels, including Holder and Obama. If there was a chance they could get away with covering up mass murder, it could have turned out quite differently. Waco, for example, miraculously left zero survivors from the final affront to testify as to what really happened, we have only the word of the killers.

    • Who knew a dressed up AK was a sniper rifle? Matter of fact he is standing on an interstate overpass. That yellow line behind him is the left lane left marker line. So he’s on federal property at that point. As for armed response at Bundy’s ranch, it’s the west, which rancher out there does not have more than a few rifles? So what sane LEO would not show up with more armed LEO’s than they expect to run into? Betting money they knew he was a few fries short of a Happy Meal. He has 14 kids, think about that for a moment, guessing he’s a good man of the Mormon faith with only one wife, she has been busy all these years or maybe he is a more fundamental believer, Big Love type, does not like to be told what he/can not do even by his church. I freely admit this is just a guess on my part, right faith, right area, right mindset from what he has shown to the press. Those who think the media is all bad might want to consider how word spread about his “troubles”. Who was behind spreading the word, got everyone pouring in to help defend him. Same group now can’t reach safe standoff distance fast enough. Least we forget, Romney signed a anti-gun bill into law while he was governor. Had he been POTUS after Sandy Hook, he could have very easily went with the tide of anti-gun groups and pushed the rest of the republicans to sign on to the idea. He was never known for his stay the course stability on issues. Normally got a perfect score on flip-flopping on any given issue if he thought it would gain him popularity.

  16. Shouldn’t Farago have said “Bundy’s ALLEDGEDLY racist remarks”????
    After all, he wrote “Cliven Bundy’s Controversial Race Remarks Revealed” just two days ago, so it’s not like he can claim ignorance of the facts here….

      • Actually, I have to say I don’t think so. If I ask if anybody thinks a man with Barack Osama’s qualifications could have been elected if he was white, does asking that question make me a racist? Because if you think so, we need to go back to studying some definitions.

        Bundy suggested the black race might be worse off now than they were under slavery, due to government failure or deliberate malice. Feel free to disagree, to call him an idiot, to argue vociferously (all of which would be defending the government, not the black man), but I see that as an honest evaluation having nothing to do with racism.

  17. Bunny is not the point it’s Govenment intervention with an American cattle farmer with armed snipers while our borders are being raided with illegals and drug cartel and the government does nothing,let’s it happen ,then gives them drivers licenses and medical care!

  18. What Mr Kay doesn’t realize is that we are all Militia. Not just the organized crews running around in camo. All citizens, including himself.

  19. I’m frankly surprised that there hasn’t been more on this from the MSM. They have no choice but to demonize anyone who would turn out to resist tyranny since they are completely invested in bringing about tyranny. While it’s not true of all, there is a large portion of journalists who ought to know that if there were to be a conservative revolution in the US they would be against the wall with the politicians.

    One wonders if they don’t have regular worship sessions for Goebbels at schools of journalism.

    At some point the 4th estate became a 5th column, it’s not something the people are likely to forget when the pain becomes to much to bear.

    • A year ago, I thought that claims that the mainstream media was crooked were paranoid and contrived. Imagine my surprise when I started really paying attention.

  20. Bundy is about as loveable as a barrel cactus, yet hundreds turned out to support him in the fight against a bloated and conniving government entity. You get to the point where you think the whole country is ready to bend over and take whatever Uncle Gov. wants to give them and then witness a response like this. The ballot approach sounds nice, but how many honest and well-intended politicians are left in the world and what are the chances we can elect them? Thank God there are still people in the world who know bullshit when they smell it and who aren’t averse to hauling out a shovel when need be. I’ve been getting the sense that outright acquiescence is at hand.

  21. Once again, why do you keep sayings his remarks were racist? THEY WERE NOT! None of his words used to reference race were pejoratives. None. In fact, he was expressing concern for minorities and their relationship to big government. You are just perpetuating lies and propaganda by the leftwing media like the NYT. Stop shilling for them.

    • What does this guy have to say to make you stop worshiping him? He said blacks go around aborting kids because they don’t know how to pick cotton. You don’t get much more racist without a confederate flag and blackface… wait, I bet you think those have no racist connotations either.

  22. Again, I said words to this effect before but I think it is wise. The next time a possibly sympathetic character on the libertarian side arises, that VERY DAY, he needs to get immediate media prep. When asked a question, do not answer it as the interviewer wants but answer it to send out your talking points. Further, speak clearly and concisely to prevent the other side from taking things out of context.

  23. Southern Poverty Law Center – an organization that is using the law to keep Southerners impoverished is just wrong!!

    Once we hit the tipping point where +50% are on the government teat, can that be called a legitimate government? Yes folks, vote in the pol that promises the most handouts!

    When Congress passes law after law that infringe on the Constitution, is the government still legitimate? Our rights are dying from being pecked to death by ducks. Scary terrorists! peck peck peck Scary gun owners! peck peck peck
    Scary militia people! peck peck peck

    The thing that scares me is our militarized police, no knock raids, and SWATing. Can we fix that?

  24. So, is passive resistance and the willingness to defend oneself the same as civil war? If it is, sign me up.

  25. I think Bundys remarks is not what he intended. Look at our Native Americans. The government stole there land and butchard them to some extent. Now the government supports them with free fishing, hunting anytime they wish, there health care is furnished and sometimes the funds run out. Certain areas they can have free housing and the government still have the “reservations”. The government protects our native Indians like they are children. I do not mean to show any disrespect to my heritage it’s just that the government has taken a lot of will from them. The government has not done a good job here. Native indians are “under there control same as our veterans with there crappy medical care. We the people do not need all there help. This Republic will rise again out from all this government. A great First Amendment too.

  26. That domestic terrormonger is in an overwatch position, not a sniper position. If he was in a sniper position he would not be in the open.

  27. From the SPLC guy:

    “We have so many anti-government groups who believe the federal government is working against them, who believe Obama is secretly a Muslim, a communist, or not even an American.”

    That’s true. Maybe the problem is that the federal government IS working against us? Maybe the President wouldn’t seem so much like an agent of some foreign power if he didn’t – well – if he didn’t seem so much like an agent of some foreign power?

    What else does the Left expect people to think, when they try so relentlessly, in so many ways, to run our nation into the ground?

  28. To those of you who can see this happening here in America, perhaps putting it like this will sink in to those who can’t… Before WW II Japan continued to discuss with the US about a peaceful resolution to war until their attack on Pearl Harbor. Now,just how BIG does the writing on the wall have to be before you gutless wonders can see our government is doing the same thing to us ??? Oh, I know… Its not affecting me, so the hell with the people who are being run over by the FEDs. Isn’t that the way we think now? Our rights, are all a matter how of a few people on top think it should be.That’s how the jobs went over seas. and the wages went down the tubes… at least the common peoples wages ( remember the middle class? ) … but the wages of the rich just keeps getting better and better… anyone notice anyone in power that has the wages of any commoner, or average working persons wage.. Didn’t think so… Funny how they’re all wealthy after they get there isn’t it. Those of you who believe we are a nation of laws, (made by the same corrupt people we are trying to make us all slaves) and that talking about the evil uncle sam does with Uncle sam will get you anywhere. You are gonna wake up in the middle of George Bush’s “One World Order” in the VERY near future..and Oh, yeah, you also wont have any guns or a reason to use them You’d let your chance to be free slip through your fingers. You MUST fight If you want to be free, ( I fear many of you can’t even conceive what that is). There is NO alternatives to what needs to be done. How much talk is enough talk? The FEDs work for us. We merely have to convince them upon occasion. This isn’t the America that it use to be. That people could be proud of. Its just a scam most of you bought into, hook, line, and sinker because you don’t have the balls to see for yourselves, to think for yourselves, and to fight the tyrants,.. the evil thats swallowing up this country. Unfortunately its not all being done by the gov. Look around people. But the FEDs are the pinnacle of their greed and lust for power. But then who am I to say this about my fellow Americans?( I must use that term loosely I guess) I’m just one of a slowly dieing minority who believe I should be able to decide my destiny without some bureaucrat telling me how to do it.
    I am not a war monger, but I’m also not blind.

    • Michael,

      Paying taxes is not tyranny. Paying taxes is the price of having a functioning government. Refusing to pay grazing fees is not patriotism, it is freeloading.

    • please, ask your doctor for stronger drugs? for all of us? for the sake of your own sanity. I believe you are a good person, just confused by a modern world, just like other people would be trying to use a phone book or an actual map or tune up a car.

  29. Trigger happy rabble!?!? They should research the Oath Keepers (which is the group in charge of security at the Bundy Ranch).

  30. With James “I’m going to start killing people” Yeager on the case, I know all is well. And with Clive, “the Negro was happier as slave picking cotton with their families, raising chickens and vegetable gardens” Bundy providing the oratorical flourish for the situation, all is even better.

    Smirk.

    • In that case, all we need to finish things is a drone commander with a pen and a phone, a fast and furious AG, and maybe a Sec. State to decry the events by asking us what difference it makes, and we are game on.

  31. These are really simple facts. Bundy has been making a huge profit off government assistance for decades. Rather than pay up for the benefits he is getting, he formed a militia to threaten and intimidate Federal law enforcement officers.

    All of his claims for beneficial use, homestead, or land improvement re obvious lies. When Nevada became a state in 1864, its citizens gave up all claims to unappropriated federal land and codified this in the state’s Constitution. His neighbors recognize him for what he is, a moocher who refuses to pay his bills (http://americablog.com/2014/04/cliven-bundy-seditious-liar-patriot.html)

    In order to get support from right-wing hate groups, he had to recruit from out-of-town, because the locals have no interest in helping him promote his scam.

    It is not his land. He has paid no property taxes, and has no “rights” to the land. Even if his homestead claims were true, we are talking about 160 acres, not thousands. He is trespassing, pure and simple. Bundy is a freeloading, welfare rancher who thinks that he deserves an entitlement program that everyone else should pay for.

    Bundy’s philosophy is that if his cows find green grass, then his cows have first claim, even though the state paid the appropriate fee to let the wildlife graze. The BLM prevented unpaid grazing as a practice because it was a subsidy of lawbreakers at the expense of people who played by the rules.

    Once Bundy calling for a “range war” and saying it was time to take back the country “by force,” he changed his crime from “stealing from the Federal Government” to “pointing guns at federal officials.” The latter is a more serious charge. His racist rants are really just a minor personality failure compared to the idea of killing law enforcement personnel.

    If he is so opposed to blacks getting government subsidy, then why is he willing to commit treason to maintain his government subsidy?

    If he is willing to call for hundreds of terrorists to come help him defend his welfare benefits, then why can’t he ask them to chip in a few dollars for his grazing permit? After all, the government is not supposed to be picking winners and losers, and the other 15,000 people with similar permits are paying their bills on time.

    The bill, by the way, is about $1.35 per animal per month. This is pretty much unchanged since it was imposed by Reagan after the Sagebrush Rebellion. Bundy has run up fees of about $1 million during the last 20 years by refusing to pay any of the fees his competitors are paying.

    Guess what? I don’t like to pay my bridge tolls, either. But forming an armed militia to threaten the toll-booth operators is not the act of a patriot, it is the act of a thug. If Bundy and his supporters were black, they would all be in prison by now. Or worse.

    • Dave, I applaud you for what is, in my opinion, one of the most well written, thoughtful, well-informed remarks about the whole Bundy situation.

      Most of the rabid anti-government folks that comment on this story have evidently not bothered to review the facts.

  32. I hate to say it but those Guys that thought They stood a chance against the Government are sadly mistaken.
    What do They think would have happened if the French Resistance worked like that in WW-2 ?
    Going toe to toe with the Government will get You nowhere.
    I always thought it is better to get Your Own people in office and then change things from the inside,It’s less Bloody that way.

    • Also, if you are going to fight the government, it helps to be right.

      Cliven Bundy is fighting to keep the money he has been stealing from taxpayers.

  33. All the people arguing against the use of force are missing the big picture. This is NOT an isolated incident. Think back to the budget battles when the government shut down and BLM was throwing it’s weight around. The Bundy incident is just a continuation of that. It is NOT about back taxes or overdue grazing fees, but more about putting down the rebellion before it even gets started. The government learned it’s lesson during the race wars of the 70s. They waited too long to step in and it took a LOT of bodies and time before they put that rebellion down. They just want to be proactive. And it’s not going to matter much. Before too long the administration is going to “Oooooops” it’s way into WWIII and it’ll be hard to hide when we’re glowing in the dark.

  34. As I see it, the Bundy Ranch confrontation isn’t about court decisions or law enforcement; it’s fundamentally about a stiff-necked old man trying his best to save his ranch and way of living from an encroaching government that’s suddenly decided that he’s in the way. Nonetheless, as I read through the comments tonight, I was struck by how many people tended to stick pretty closely to the Bundy-as-law-breaker side of the argument. This causes me to wonder how People Of The Gun are going to respond when Connecticut decides to go after the tens of thousands of newly minted assault-gun felons? When you think about it, the Bundy Ranch confrontation and the Connecticut assault-gun ban aren’t aren’t all that far apart.

    • Exactly. You, sir, seem to be one of the few that gets it. They changed the rules in Connecticut, just as they changed the rules on Bundy. He refused to go along with rule changes that didn’t even have the strength of legislation. Some self-important bureaucrat decided to change the rules

  35. ‘ Dave says:
    April 27, 2014 at 17:46

    Mark,

    Whenever someone says something racist and ignorant, they always backtrack it the following day to clarify that they were “just wondering”. ‘

    Watch the raw footage. Read the transcript of it. He said “wondering” in the original. Read what Niger Innis had to say about it. In case your not familiar with him, Niger Innis is the son of Roy Innis, and followed his father as one of the leaders of CORE. If you were around in the sixties, THAT name should be familiar to you.

  36. “[T]he militia members are an armed, untrained rabble who consider themselves above the law.”

    Much the same as Cornwallis regarded the militia in 1776.

    “Mistake.” – Carlos Hathcock

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