The Bren Ten, The Fashion Of Firearms and The Sword Of Legend

It’s ironic, in the non-Alanis-Morrissette sense, if you think about it: The Glock 17 pistol and its successors have been tirelessly vilified, demonized and even libeled by the firearms-hating American media since before it found a single owner on this continent. Yet the fantastic polymer dishwasher-safe double-stacker is the best possible example of firearm-as-tool. Consider the following scenario: You have been informed that you are 100% certain to be in a gunfight tomorrow and that you can only take one pistol and one backup magazine with you. You don’t know what the weather will be, what the number of opponents will be, what the lighting conditions will be. Nothing is certain but the this: you’re going to have to fire your weapon in anger. How many of us would take anything but a Glock? . . .

In a world where nobody had any personal attachment whatsoever to a firearm — a world where we chose a pistol the same way we’d choose a dishwasher or a furnace filter — the Glock would account for ninety-nine percent of sales. No other pistol is as durable, as reliable, as fault-tolerant. Chuck Taylor famously put a hundred thousand rounds through his and reported just one stoppage. Face it. If you really thought you’d need a gun tomorrow, and you had free choice, you’d be a fool to choose anything but a Glock.

Well, as the saying goes, I was that fool. Fifteen years ago, when I had a job where carrying a firearm seemed like a reasonable proposition, I alternated between the gun that I knew I should be carrying — a Glock 21 with which I was a successful pin-and-plate shooter — and the gun I wanted to carry — a brand-new Heckler & Koch USP .40 with manual safety and that oh-so-sexy “hk” logo on the slide. Yes, that’s right; every other week I put a pistol that had proven to be utterly flawless in both public tests and over ten thousand rounds of my own experience back into the safe and carried something that was so new on the market that I didn’t know anybody else who had one.

But wait, I will demonstrate that my stupidity didn’t stop there. Every once in a while, I’d toss them both back into the safe and carry my stainless-steel Colt Gold Cup, complete with tuned trigger. This was a gun that was so finicky that sometimes it would choke on Winchester white box ball ammo — and I not only took it with me to work, I had to take it out once when somebody in my place of business commenced to beating another customer. It was highly effective as a deterrent, being very shiny and gun-looking, but had I been forced to use it I wouldn’t have wanted to bet money, let alone my life, on it flawlessly feeding all eight of the Federal Hydra-Shoks loaded in the magazine.

Which brings me to the Bren Ten; indeed, to the 10mm cartridge itself. The two products were a fantastic creation, in the traditional sense of the word. They were the fantasy, the brainchildren if you will, of Jeff Cooper, a man who never “saw the elephant” of which he wrote so eloquently and who, according to a mutual friend, was a much better writer than he ever was a shooter. Cooper’s well-documented fondness for the CZ-75 pistol was the farce that launched ten thousand Tanfoglio sales (including, ahem, one to this author) and if there was never any genuine reason to prefer the Czecho crunchenticker over more readily-available products, that didn’t stop him from beating the drum until somebody agreed to build one in the United States.

But it wasn’t enough to just have a new gun. A new cartridge was also required. Thus we got the 10mm, a set of specifications created hastily enough that some early loads would flash-combust from the sheer surface area of the powder spread along the bottom of the long case. The 10mm didn’t do anything better than existing pistol calibers, but it was different, and that was nice. At some point, somebody said something about punching through body armor and car engine blocks, but surely nobody ever actually bought a 10mm hoping to stop a car.

Needless to say, the combination of “new gun” and “new cartridge” and “shady business people” was a disastrous failure. The Bren Ten itself became a collectors item worth only slightly less than a magazine for a Bren Ten. The 10mm cartridge was finessed into the “10mm Lite” and from there into the repugnantly lukewarm .40 S&W, churlishly yclept “.40 Auto” on the side of Glocks. The full-power 10mm also found a home in a Glock, after a few side trips to the finicky Colt Delta Elite and crass-but-magnificent Star Megastar. Thirty years after Sonny Crockett carried a Bren Ten on a television series, the gun is a memory and the cartridge is an afterthought.

And yet there remains interest in a Bren Ten, to the point that a company tried doing a reissue a few years ago. Though said reissue failed for reasons having nothing to do with the gun itself, firearms message boards continue to hum about the Dornaus & Dixon pistol. Anybody who could manage to build Bren Tens tomorrow could probably name their price and that price would certainly be a multiple of what a Glock 20 costs, and the only problem they would have would be fulfilling dealer orders in timely fashion.

Why? Joseph Campbell, the writer and critic whose work underpins works as diverse as Iron John and Star Wars, writes about “the Sword Of Legend” which appears in various forms throughout the history of human storytelling. The traditional example is King Arthur’s Excalibur, but it’s far from the only one. As long as people have told stories, they have told stories about magical tools, special weapons, items which are not only helpful to the hero of that story, but required in order for him to succeed.

If pistols were simply tools for survival, we’d all carry Glocks. But they aren’t. They are emotionally and spiritually important, which is why some people choose to carry something besides a Glock. They may have any number of putative reasons for doing so, from trigger pull to grip size, but if you could hypnotize them and find out the actual truth of the matter, you’d find that they have chosen their Officer’s ACP or Kahr K9 or TZ-75 Factory Comp .41 Action Express (yo!) because that firearm fits into their personal narrative. It appeals to them. It’s part of their story in a way that a Glock couldn’t be.

The anti-gun media, were they to become particularly sensitive to this, would no doubt characterize it in demeaning pseudo-sexual terms or make references to Walter Mitty. They’d be wrong in doing so. The relationship between men (or women) and their chosen weapon predates Sigmund Freud or Hollywood. It’s a belief that each of us has the capability to bond with a particular object and that the sum of us plus that object is greater than the individual parts. It’s why we smile when we see Sonny Crockett with the Bren Ten or Harry Callahan with the long-barreled Model 29. Hero and heroic object. When Sonny Crockett switched to a garden-variety  Smith autopistol, the series tanked. Coincidence? Who knows. The desire for Excalibur is as old as humanity itself, and it isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. But with all that said, if you really think you’ll need a gun tomorrow, take the advice of another legendary figure — Tommy Lee Jones’ marshal from The Fugitive — and get yourself a Glock, okay?


  1. avatar Nathan says:

    Yclept. Nice.

    *internet nod*

    1. avatar RandallOfLegend says:

      I thought it was a typo, but now I have been educated

    2. avatar Ing says:

      Shades of Chaucer there. Takes me back to English 350 and the Canterbury Tales. The Miller’s Tale, and its intrepid, randy clerk, ycleped hende Nicholas. His weapon of choice was a hot poker…the grip had to have been even less ergonomic than a Glock’s, but it got the job done.

      1. avatar ropingdown says:

        And Shakespeare.  1588 Shakes. L.L.L. i. i. 242 Now for the ground Which? which I meane I walkt vpon, it is ycliped, Thy Parke. As the OED says, “much affected as a literary archaism by Elizabethan and subsequent poets; in less dignified writing often used for the sake of quaintness or with serio-comic intention.” -less dignified, indeed.

    3. avatar Avid Reader says:

      Haven’t seen that word used in years. Good to see it again.

    4. avatar anglosaxongamer says:

      Middle English FTW!

  2. avatar Hanover Fist says:

    This may be the most trollerific “article” I have seen on TTAG in a long time. You should get quite a few bites.


    1. avatar Hobbez says:

      I have to admit, I was halfway through my first sentence in a response when that little voice in the back of my head pipped up “This can’t be real, don’t fall for it”

      1. avatar TheThingThatGoesUp says:

        I know. I can’t believe how he kept misspelling “revolver”.

  3. avatar Chad says:

    I like it, but, if the conditions are as you said, 1 gun and 1 spare mag, I may opt for the PMR. .22 mag with 30 rounds per magazine. Not as much punch as the glock, but I get more chances with the high-cap magazines.

    1. avatar cogline says:

      I was thinking more along the lines of an FN Five-seveN with a couple of 30 round mags. I have had feeding issues with the PMR but never with the FN.

      1. avatar Hobbez says:

        1 gun and 1 spare mag? My choice would never be a handgun… If I knew trouble was coming tomorrow, jwhether or not I knew where or how, my solution wouldn’t be on my hip, it would be over my shoulder.

        1. avatar Ing says:

          There is that…

          Although it would be pretty difficult to go on about your daily business with a loaded rifle slung on your back (well, it would be in my business; I can’t judge yours). If discretion matters, you’re going to be stuck with a pistol.

          I wouldn’t disdain a Glock if I needed a pistol — I know they’ve earned their reputation — but if I knew I was going to have to save my life with a handgun tomorrow, I’d be carrying the gun I already own. Smaller reputation with (if anything) even better performance.

    2. avatar Michael says:

      A KelTec? Please!!!!!!!!!!! It should not be mentioned in the same comment as a Glock 17 or FiveseveN

  4. avatar Jeh says:

    “No other pistol is as durable, as reliable, as fault-tolerant”
    ….1911 hasn’t been around for 102 years, been through 4 wars, and massively popular and well loved because it sucked. There’s a reason JMB is considered a saint.

    1. avatar ropingdown says:

      The entire post could easily be rewritten, as a choice between our $3,000 SchtupperSpecial 1911 versus a typical 1941 government-contract production model. It is the core observation about fetish that is amusing. Make the conditions “7 rounds, no spare, a certain fight, possible need for pistol-whipping” and the tale could be one outing the high-capacity Glock fetish when a steel lower-capacity gun would be more suitable. No?

      1. avatar Leadbelly says:

        Given your particular set of constraints, I’d give up one more round and go with a S&W model 13 .357 with a four inch heavy barrel. This would give an arguably more effective load than .45acp, as well as superior noggin-clonker characteristics. Reliability goes without saying.

      2. avatar AlphaGeek says:

        7-shot max and pistol whipping required? Taurus 608 SS6 in .357 Magnum, with one empty chamber, the rest loaded with monstrously over-pressure Buffalo Bore rounds.

        1. avatar Taylor Tx says:

          Theres a reason those Buffalo Bore boxes have 2x the necessary amount of styrofoam 😀

        2. avatar Pat says:

          My S&W 627pro 4″ 8 shot N frame understands the qualities of your 608. Those 8 shot wheels are tough to beat.

    2. avatar maiko says:

      yes…that reason is the browning hi power

    3. avatar natermer says:

      > 1911 hasn’t been around for 102 years, been through 4 wars, and massively popular and well loved because it sucked.

      Until the Hi-Power came along the 1911 was actually the best pistol you could buy. So from 1911 until 1935 it really was the ideal pistol. After that… not so much.

      Modern hi-capacity striker fired pistols outclass 1911 in all respects except in aesthetics.

      1. avatar JoshuaS says:

        And trigger. And, very frequently, ergonomics.

        The are many things still in the favor of a 1911.

      2. avatar ropingdown says:

        Natermer, you have a fabulous consulting career opportunity. Call FBI HRT, SEAL Devgru, LA SWAT, etc. They need help. It sounds like you’re the man do set them straight.

  5. avatar Craig says:

    Of course pistols and guns in general are personifications of the owner, just like cars.

    An even better gun related example is Quigley Down Under.

    1. avatar Jake_in_AK says:

      Great example-
      That’s the movie that got me interested in long range shooting in the first place- and although I now own several arguably more accurate rifles, I still am saving for a Sharps rifle in .45-90
      Not because that rifle actually is better, but because its the one I am interested in shooting.
      Kinda silly ya?
      Still gonna get it.

  6. avatar Ryan says:

    If I was 100% certain I was going to be in a gunfight tomorrow I would hide under my bedcovers until the next day.

    I don’t want to shoot anyone, ever.

    Unfortunately you don’t always get to make that choice. All the same, I would not want the Glock – but not for the reasons you think. I’ve shot a Beretta 92FS for the better part of 20 years now. I wouldn’t bet my life on a gun I’ve only shot a few times at the range.

    The best gun for you is the one you are most familiar with.

    1. avatar Stinkeye says:

      Exactly. The best gun for you is the one you shoot best. I’m one of those people who finds Glock grips awkward. I could re-train my brain with thousands of rounds at the range and hours of dry-firing to force my hands to find the Glock grip comfortable, or I could just shoot a gun that fits me better from the start. My choice not to own a Glock doesn’t have anything to do with my “personal legend” or whatever psychological baloney this cat is talking about. It’s got to do with actual physical variations in human skeletal structure.

      1. avatar Hobbez says:

        I have tried give Glock a chance twice now and they are just the most uncomfortable handgun out there for me. I just can’t shoot them well with that crazy brick of a grip. If my life depended on it, It would be stupid to take a gun I couldn’t hit shit with….

        1. avatar natermer says:

          That’s too bad your hands are so freakishly deformed that you can’t grip the gun correctly.

          For everybody else it’s not by accident that Glocks dominate shooting competitions.

        2. avatar Lucas D. says:

          natermer: Hey, here’s a revolutionary thought: How about you speak for yourself, Jackass? Not everyone has the same hands as you, nor do they have the same needs, preferences or circumstances as you. So why not just go with what works for you and leave us alone?

        3. avatar ropingdown says:

          Nate, Glocks do not dominate the accuracy-weighted national pistol shooting contests. They are the most common in the IDPA-type action contests because they are cheap, reliable, fungible, and low maintenance. In the fast accuracy contests most guns are built on 1911 or Smith steel frames.

    2. avatar Ing says:

      I’m with Ryan on that. If I know for sure that someone out there is going to try to kill me today (and only today), then I’m fine with staying home.

      Although I’d also be making some preparations. If someone really wants to kill me just because I’m me, and I know today is the day, better to make the fight come to me on my terms than to just blunder on throughout my day wondering who/what/where/when and hoping I can draw my trusty not-a-Glock pistol in time.

      1. avatar natermer says:

        If I knew I was going to be in a fight I’d bring a rifle.

        1. avatar pat says:

          I’d bring a tank.

  7. avatar Flubnut says:

    All this Glock talk aside, I’m just happy I now know what gun Sonny was pulling out of his shoulder holster for all those years!

  8. avatar ropingdown says:

    Jack Baruth, that was a fine post. Legend (ancient or Hollywood-spawned) understands the power of fetish, the ascribing of magical powers to an object. I vacillated between 1911s and gun-X (eventually Glocks) for a decade. My son had the answer. One day he took my G30S, actually a G36 slide on a G30 frame (I was very early on that). He returned it a day later, informing me that the trigger bar had been replaced with “the one trigger bar to rule them all,” manufactured of an extremely rare metal by a Swiss dwarf of unrivaled skill who alone knew the fabrication secret, and who died the day after completing my trigger bar. I could, today, not consider carrying any other gun, however superficially charming.

    1. avatar DJ says:

      lol. Would the police need to return it to whence it was made to destroy it?

      1. avatar ropingdown says:

        It simply cannot be destroyed, and I tremble at the thought The Police might obtain possession.

  9. avatar ST says:

    Sorry to be Mr. Materialistic Weasel, but we need to put down the fairy dust and get back to earth.

    One:The 10mm did serve a practical role which has since been superseded by technology.Back in the early 80s, 9mm JHP tech was dodgier then a background check on an NFL player.Before the 10mm, you could have high power or high capacity, but not both.

    Nowadays, the 10mm in a defensive role is obsolete .It’s big, the ammos hard to fund or find, the liberal legal establishment will eat you for lunch (see Harold Fish v Arizona) and 9mm +p gets the job done at lesser cost.Even Jeff Cooper himself recogized the 10mms irrelevance in his own Commentaries.

    As to the Bren Ten, it’s discontinued for a reason.The gun was a pile of crap.The fan website warns visitors to not shoot any example without thorough X-rays or specialized examination of the slide for stress cracks.Apparently porous steel is a bad combination when combined with 10mm pressure. It’s like an Italian car from the 1980s-good in design and concept, but missing practical reliability .

    Point two:Glocks are not the last word in defensive handguns.All of us are different people with different hands, recoil tolerance, and carry needs.If I knew there would be trouble best solved with a handgun and I couldn’t avoid it, the last gun I’d choose would be a Glock.

    Lifes too short for ugly handguns, but that’s just me.

    1. avatar Lucas D. says:

      +1 for acknowledging that you speak for yourself. Not to say nobody agrees with you (I certainly do), but the smug presumption so many fanboys display about their shootin’ iron of choice is what keeps setting off these stupid arguments, and you deserve kudos for avoiding it.

      Look here, folks: whether it’s a Glock, Springfield, CZ, 1911 or whatever, I don’t care; if it’s what works for you, keep in mind that it works for YOU, and it’s not your damn business to decide what’s best for the rest of us.

      1. avatar SteveInCO says:


        Except that if you don’t carry a CZ-75B you are mentally defective. /joking!

        1. avatar Dan A says:

          SteveinCO: Reading the article, my first thought as to the handgun I would take into a fight first was my CZ75B. I like my Glock 19 just fine but carrying my CZ again is like shaking hands with an old friend.

        2. avatar Nagurski says:

          What about people that carry a CZ 75D? It’s still awesome, but smaller.

        3. avatar SteveInCO says:

          75 D? Sure. In fact I also own a compact, but it’s the straight 75 Compact (with the safety not the decocker.). I’m a touch more accurate with it, actually. (When I can’t see the dots on my pistol’s sights I line up the tops of my sights. Apparently the front sight on my full size is a bit short and I end up shooting high.)

          I make SOME allowances for personal taste. 🙂

  10. avatar USAFMech says:

    Look at that byline! Good to see you, Jack. You are finally a worthy torch-carrier for TTAC, from whence I followed Farrago to TTAG.

    PS, you hooked me with that Miami Vice lede picture. Has there been a better TV show before or since?

    1. avatar ropingdown says:

      I’m not qualified to judge TV shows, but Jim Zubiena as hitman Ludovici Armstrong taking out two targets, with high-end semi shotgun skills and another throwing a mozambique with his 1911a1 made me say “meh” about my Glocks for awhile, pre Swiss dwarf.

  11. avatar DJ says:

    Sig Sauer.

    That concludes my rebuttal.

    1. avatar Rob.G says:

      I own 4 SIG’s, 2 of which I rotate for EDC, and have found them to be the most stubborn guns ever. They absolutely refuse to fail on me – ever!

    2. avatar Craig says:

      Sig Heil?

      1. avatar Rob.G says:

        Or maybe Heil SIG! 😉

    3. avatar AlphaGeek says:

      Sig has had some quality issues in the P2xx series in recent years, particularly with regards to the use of MiM (metal injection molded) parts. Reportedly things have gotten better in the last year or so.

      Price pressure from Glock is frequently cited as the reason for the drop in quality from Sig et al over the last decade.

  12. avatar Nagurski says:

    I would argue that the Glock, XD and M&P are all pretty much exactly the same when it comes to reliability, accuracy and shoot-ability. For the people who don’t have have square shaped robot hands, why wouldn’t they use the XD or M&P. Hell, a Sig, Beretta or CZ would work in a pinch too.

    1. avatar Renegade Dave says:

      I own an XD, and I wouldn’t bring my XD over a glock unless it had a trigger update, especially for a “known” gunfight. The reset is too long, and then there is more take up after the reset. The Glock stays on target better and the trigger is better out of the box.

      If you can’t stand a Glock I’d steer you to an M&P over an XD. M&P grips are even more comfortable and the new triggers (post Shield era triggers) are not a far cry from Glock triggers.

  13. avatar PeterC says:

    Alas, the Glock is probably the most practical choice for a sidearm, but it has all the panache of a pipe wrench.

    1. avatar bontai Joe says:

      I have a pipe wrench that I am rather fond of. It belonged to my grandfather, who passed away in 1952. That should give you an idea as to how old the wrench is. The handle is worn smooth, and the patina of 3 generations of users makes it a one of a kind. And I have a 1st gen Glock 17. I have less attachment to the Glock than the wrench, but it works, and in the above scenerio, it would be my first choice for defense, partly because I have 30 round mags for it, partly because it fits my bear paw sized hands very well, partly because it always goes BANG when I pull the trigger.

  14. avatar "lee n. field" says:

    “Crass but magnificent” Megastar?

    (Make that “big **** cannon, a hyperthyroid Firestar.)

    10mm is a niche cartridge. If I had any need or desire for one, it would probably be in that toaster of guns, the Glock.

  15. avatar 505markf says:

    There was a time in my life when stopping power was my golden standard. Then I owned 1911s and adjusted myself as necessary to fit that platform. I went the reliability-and-round-count route eventually and tried Glocks. I tried to like them. I really wanted to like them. But at the end of the day, I just couldn’t. The grip and dimensions just didn’t fit my hand. Then again, the 1911 never did either, though back in the day it was either that or a revolver. The Browning High Power fit better for me than the 1911 or the Glock, but it was never reliable enough for me.

    I continued searching, trying M&Ps, XDs, Kahrs, etc.. Then I picked up a CZ-75 in a LGS and it was like it melded into my arm. It was an uncanny moment. I bought it. When I took it to the range, I was more accurate with it straight out of the box that I have ever been before. I do NOT think that CZ makes the most accurate handgun out there. They don’t. My old, tuned-up Gold Cup was stupidly accurate. but I was more accurate with the CZ than other pistols. I think it’s as simple as the grip and overall dimensions. They simply fit me.

    Eventually I bought several more of the Czech pistols to keep the first one company. I do own other handguns, but it I knew tomorrow was the day I was facing impending doom (and isn’t that true every day?), I would bring along my CZ. There is no doubt in my mind that my CZ is *my* sword of legend.

    To counter the “get a Glock” refrain, I suggest first find what fits YOU. Then make your choices around caliber and round count and concealability and all the other variables. All the reliability in the world won’t matter squat if you can’t hit what you aim at.

    1. avatar AlphaGeek says:

      Ergonomics are important. I shoot Glocks very accurately and with no loss of speed vs my preferred guns, yet I don’t like how they feel in my hand with the factory grip texture, and I have trouble transitioning my finger into the trigger guard from the indexed position.

    2. avatar JeffR says:

      I recently bought a P-01 so my CZ-75 would have some company in the safe. He seems much happier since I did that.

    3. avatar Matt says:

      ^^^ This

      Hands down my CZ 75 fits my hands the best out of any pistol I have ever shot and is a dream to shoot.

      I may love the double action revolver but if I will always default to my CZ for accuracy. It just handles, points, and aims supernaturally for me.

      1. avatar Steve Ramsey says:

        Second. I bought an Armalite AR-24 based on RF’s little video. The CZ-75 platform’s ergos are as close to perfect as any auto can get. Accurate? Yes. Reliable? Yep. Manual safety? yes, but it stays off unless re-holstering a cocked gun. Heavy? OK, well that’s the downside but the real upside is I don’t own a glock, so the CZ is perfect.

        Outside of that, the question posed of which gun is the one to have is much less relevant that having A gun. If I know I’m going into a fight, I’m going with a rifle. If I don’t know, odds are the gun i have on me, whatever it is, will do fine.

    4. avatar Roscoe says:

      @ 505markf

      I too am a CZ proponent and agree with everything you say. My stable includes the SP-01, Compact .40, and the P-01 the latter of which is my 1st choice for concealed carry.

      However I recently acquired and thoroughly exercised a HK USP Compact .45 using both the standard 8 and the slightly extended but better fitting 10 rd mags. I found my experience with the HK to be similar in many regards to the CZ, plus the ergo’s of the controls on the HK are more favorable during operation.

      One thing that HK cautions as a safety concern which I found instead to be a useful benefit is that when reloading, if you quickly firmly slap a new mag into the mag well the action of doing so immediately and consistently causes the slide release to let go the slide and promptly chamber the first round. THAT’s a very fast reload – no manipulation of the controls needed other than employing the decocker/safety if you don’t intend to immediately engage.

      If I wanted to carry a larger bore auto sidearm, I would not hesitate to select the HK USP Comp .45. Just like the CZ it cycles every time, even when the bore ramp is chock full of carbon residue. It is easy to keep on target which like the CZ makes me look more accurate than I think I am. It is an excellent fit for my large hands, as is the CZ, either with or without gloves, it seems to point shoot more accurately than the CZ, the operational controls are IMO better than CZ, and sin of sin’s, it even fits my CZ holster fairly well.

      I’m still a devoted CZ proponent, but after putting off shooting HK for many years, I am thoroughly impressed with my USP .45 experience.

  16. avatar Fudgesicle says:

    How do you know you’re a child of the 90’s? When you see the sword pictured above and your first thought is not “Excalibur,” but “Master Sword.” Honestly, it’s the same archetype.

    1. avatar El Cid says:

      First thing that came to mind lol

  17. avatar Ralph says:

    How many of us would take anything but a Glock?

    Actually, I’d take anything but a Glock.

    1. avatar natermer says:

      Have fun with your XD POS.

      1. avatar JaredFromTampa says:

        IIRC from past posts, Ralph is a wheel gun guy…

      2. avatar Lucas D. says:

        Why, thank you, anonymous douchebag. We will.

      3. avatar benny says:

        5 bucks says my XD will shoot better than your glock.
        wanna know why? the XD fits better.

        obvious glock troll is obvious.

    2. avatar Anonymous says:

      I’d take anything but a Glock too. We call that a cherry picking when he pulls out the story of one gun being fired 100,000 times. Glock fanboy’s at it again. This article slaps around Bren 10 and 10mm fanboys while performing the exact same statement and garbage towards Glocks. What a bag of hypocrisy.

      Glocks are overpriced plastic, and are susceptible to manufacturing mistakes and human error – just like every other gun. They are not special. Don’t believe me? Look here:

  18. avatar AlphaGeek says:

    Note the lack of supporting evidence that the USP40 is, as the author implies, less reliable than the Glock.

    It may have a higher bore axis, and be more challenging to master in marksmanship than the Glock, but the reliability of the USP family is unparalleled. HK USP pistols and their descendants, the HK45, P30, P2000 and P2000SK, are the only major label handguns which haven’t suffered quality and/or function issues over the last decade. Even Glock has had significant issues, including spent-case ejection issues (“Glock face”) and kaBOOM! (“kB!”) issues with cartridges blowing up in guns when fired.

    There are a fair number of areas where HK deserves criticism, but reliability? Please. Take a reality pill.

    1. avatar RichS says:

      He presented just as much empirical evidence as you have.

    2. avatar Ing says:

      The writer said that at the time he carried one, it was an unproven first-generation model. That’s why he brought it up.

    3. avatar Jack Baruth says:

      At the time (1996), there was no evidence that the USP was anything at all. It was too new to be a known quantity.

      So I was putting away a firearm of known capability for one of unknown capability.

      And that’s the point.

    4. avatar Michael B. says:

      IIRC, some models of the USP had a firing pin issue at some point early on.

      But yes, it’s a good handgun. With the light LEM trigger my USP Compact 40 was quite superb (although the take up kind of sucked).

      Problem is, it was like a damn brick and it was harder to conceal than the Glock. Plus the mags are expensive as hell.

      I went back to carrying my Glock 19 and then finally to just carrying a Ruger LCR .357

      I still carry the G19 sometimes but not often.

      My Browning Hi-Power MK III is my home defense handgun because it’s what I shoot best. I’ve put hundreds of rounds of 9mm through it from all different manufacturers and I’ve never had a single jam, FTF, or anything so I’m not quite sure what the guy further up the page is talking about.

  19. avatar LongBeach says:

    Glocks are great guns, no doubt about it, but I’ve never been excited by one. They don’t feel right to me, and if I were to own a Glock I wouldn’t feel proud of it, like I owned something special. In my humblest of opinions, they are the Toyota Camry of the gun world; they run and run and run, they’re affordable, and they sure aren’t nice to look at. Nobody walks with that swagger because they’ve got a Camry in their garage. If that’s what some people want then that’s perfectly fine by me, but a Glock doesn’t suit me, and isn’t representative of who I am. I drive an old Ford pickup, fly an American flag on that pickup, chew tobacco, drink Jack and PBR, listen to metal and classic rock, and in no way resemble a cop or an operator. I want something that is distinctly American, has some heritage, looks badass, and feels good in the hand. Ergo, I buy 1911s. Because it fits with who I am. If I knew I was going to fire my gun in anger tomorrow, I’d still grab my 1911. It has never failed me, I am extremely proficient with its manual of arms, and I shoot it more accurately than any other handgun I’ve ever shot. Is it the best gun out there and the right gun for everybody? Hell no. But the biggest part of confrontation (athletic, verbal, lethal, etc) is confidence, and I am far more confident with my 1911 than I would be with any other gun, hands down.

    1. avatar natermer says:

      I am far more interested in what I can do with the gun then the gun itself.

      To me it’s like getting excited about athletic shoes. If I was talking about basketball and somebody came up to me and told me that Chuck Taylors are the Toyota Camry of shoes I would look at them like they are a idiot out of pure bewilderment.

      1. avatar Paul W. says:

        Amen. I’m not a huge Glock fan but that’s just because they don’t fit my hand. My carry gun is supposed to work…don’t really know why it should speak to my mythos or whatever

      2. avatar ropingdown says:

        The post being discussed isn’t about any particular pistol. The Glock was simply chosen as a fixed point in the computation of the author’s previous gun purchases and behavior, decisions. It is a riff on gun fetishes, much as one could riff on the extravagance of a Lambo when a KIA will suffice. Taken at face value the post is simply wrong. Many many experts who can choose their weapon, and whose lives go on the line, as in they really are going to a shootout tomorrow, chose something else, like a Sig 226, 220, HK 45C, or 1911 of some type. I carry a Glock due only to lightness and compactness (for a .45ACP). Anyone who says the trigger compares well to a good 1911 trigger just hasn’t shot a good 1911. Anyone who had a Gold Cup but didn’t bother to get the thing into high reliability functioning (it wasn’t difficult) wasn’t into guns at the time, except as jewelry. His interest may have grown since that time….

  20. avatar BurnOut says:

    I tend to agree with Mr. Baruth regarding the practicality and reliability of Glocks.

    That said, I also see the benefit of different guns for different circumstances; for instance, if concealability is required, a Glock is a poor choice. If you need a backup weapon for hunting African big 5 game, then the pocket pistol is probably not the best selection.


  21. avatar MDC says:

    Ill soon be getting the Tanfoglio Stock 2. They work and plenty of mags to be had.Proven competition and carry pistol.

  22. avatar dlj95118 says:

    …what’s a Glock?

  23. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

    Bren Ten, right along side a 44 Automag the Loch Ness Monster, Bigfoot and a chupacabra.

    1. avatar DrewN says:

      Ha. True,true. And I just happen to own examples of both those “fine” firearms. At least the Automag unfailingly draws an immediate crowd at the range, but I’ve yet to find much use for the 10.

  24. avatar Jake says:

    The hatred of glock-trolls will never be outdone. “I’d take any gun over a glock”. Oooookay there pal, grab yourself a saturday night special and off you go.

  25. avatar Paul W. says:

    I just don’t like how they feel or shoot for me. So no, I wouldn’t take a glock. A springfield XD in 9 or 45 though, sure. Or even a 1911 (just bought one actually!).

  26. avatar David PA/NJ says:

    Glocks suck.
    Flame me if you want.

  27. avatar king_of_hearts says:

    Haters gonna hate.

    1. avatar ropingdown says:

      Can’t we all just get along?

  28. avatar David says:

    I’d really like my old glock 21 (gen2 model) which was stolen over 15 years ago. For me, it has been the most accurate handgun, I’ve ever shot out of the box. Its simplicity is golden, in a high stress environment. I carried it (when clothing allowed) with 13 + 1, and 2 spare mags. 2 loaded with the infamous Black Talons, and one mag with FMJ. With the availability of higher round mags, that just ups the ante. Allowed me to get rid of my Beretta 92FS – simply not as accurate. As much as I like the 45 acp, today I’d choose the G17, probably gen 3 – but haven’t had the chance to fire the gen 4. I have no experience with 1911’s (yeah I know), but I’ll take the higher capacity mags – gives me room for ‘keeping someone else’s head down – or off if they choose to expose themselves.
    I guess I’d be looking at rounds available, a gun that comfortably fits my large hands (size 13 shoe), controllability. The glock is a workhorse, kinda like the AK platform. It may be the easiest gun to teach someone to shoot well (no manual safety). The 9mm isn’t too much for my wife, and she likes the feel of the G17 and G22 (surprised me, because she does have smaller hands).
    I’m also a fan of pistol caliber carbines, and the 9mm makes excellent use of the added barrel length, IMO.
    Also I don’t have 1st hand experience with the XD’s or sigmas. They may be just as good, but in a stressful environment, go with what you know best. ie- I’d choose my NHM-91 (Mak 91) over an AR because I am more familiar with the weapon. Now if I could just get my Mak-90 and 91 with a good tactical stock and modern sights (recommendations appreciated).
    The glock gives me shot placement(accuracy), reliability, and rapid follow up shots. I don’t like the 45 here, because of its limited effectiveness against body armor. I’ll take the higher velocity 9mm+p.
    But as a previous poster said – If I know, then I can avoid.
    Any recommendations on which Glock to get now? Should I get a 40, and add a 9mm barrel? What are the best choices for a carbine either a complete gun like the JRC or Sub 2k or an add on upper like the Mec-Tech. Also any thoughts on an AR that uses Glock 9mm mags. I am familiar with the UZI – IMI Model A, I like the longer range that is provided by the higher velocity round in a longer barrel.
    Too many choices and not enough cash. But planning on a Glock in the near future.

  29. avatar Colby says:

    Couldn’t resist contributing to this topic. I don’t necessarily disagree with your contention regarding the Glock, but I do have a distinguishing point of view regarding whether it is always the best tool for the job if we set emotional connection aside. I am not sure your was actually so as broad as to contend that you believe the Glock is “always” the best, so feel free to correct me if I misunderstood. Granted, if you told me I was going to “see the elephant” tomorrow, I would probably reach for my rifle or shotgun and only have the handgun as a supplement, but I digress and will assume that only a handgun is available for purposes of this comment.

    If I didn’t already own any handguns, and was told that tomorrow I was going to have an inevitable hostile engagement, and that I could go out and buy one pistol and one spare magazine to save my life, then certainly I would go out and immediately buy a G21SF due to it’s large capacity, excellent trigger, caliber, and higher probability of being reliable off-the-shelf than any other design. Then I would do whatever it took to lug it around, like the brick that it is, trying very hard to uncomfortably conceal it, in anticipation of the inevitable imminent conflict.

    On the other hand, if I was told that I was likely to face a conflict in the next 30 years (not knowing when), that I would have to be able to successfully conceal my weapon while in public for the entire 30 year period due to state laws, that the firearm would have to withstand every environmental or incidental extreme I would endure during that time, and that I had time to verify my firearm’s reliability before using it, then I would still consider the Glock (probably in 9mm rather than .45 this time), but would also consider its competitors for the advantages they offer in the areas of strength of materials, capacity, profile, concealability, etc.

    Those advantages are as much the reason that other options exist as are any emotional connections various designs may evoke. Those same advantages are also the reason I own several handguns of differing designs and materials, all proven reliable, for different purposes; Glock included. Sometimes, for my uses, I feel like safeties are good, sometimes bad. Sometimes I wan’t larger capacity and must sacrifice bore diameter for concealability, while other times concealability is less important and I can go with a larger caliber or higher capacity. Still other times I want a polymer firearm for its light weight, while other times I want a steel-frame gun for ultimate durability and abrasion resistance.

    It’s the same reason I have both crescent wrenches and wrench sets. They both turn bolts, but they also both have their own set of advantages and disadvantages depending on environment or situation.

    Self defense firearms are also not merely items to have, use, and immediately dispose of after use. If they were, then I agree that, currently, Glocks would probably be the only choice. But in reality we are all trying to live with, work with, work around, conceal, and use our firearms for potentially extremely long periods of time, and as such the individual advantages of other firearms may make them more useful than Glocks to individual users, depending on their needs and providing that they are just as reliable.

    Today, since I am wearing business casual and sitting in the office, I left the Glock at home and wore my very reliable and accurate Ruger SR9c, which I purchased for this situation instead of a G26 because the Ruger is easier to conceal and because it has redundant safeties. When I go to bed tonight I may have a G21 nearby. If I was a police officer I would also want a G21 on duty. If I go hog hunting this weekend, then I will take along my 1911. If I got drafted into the military and was told I could pick any handgun that I want to go to war with, then I would beg Sig to make me a a steel framed P227 (10 rounds of .45) for me to take. If Sig refused to to make me an all steel P227, then I would probably either take my 1911 or buy a steel framed Sig P226.

  30. avatar Matt in FL says:

    I read this solely because of the lead photo. It was an entertaining read, though I found more value in the Bren Ten information than in the GLOCK-brand GLOCK cheerleading. I personally have (and have shot) other guns that I prefer.

  31. avatar Darth Mikey says:

    In the “It’s not you, it’s me” category, I would also choose anything but a Glock because we just don’t get along. Some kind of dark magic happens, and I can empty one at a man-sized target at close range all day long and somehow leave it completely unscathed. (Call it the “Pulp Fiction” phenomenon.) Fit. Ergos. Whatever. I wouldn’t feel confident defending my life with a Glock at muzzle-contact range. Perhaps Gaston placed a curse upon my family for some insult in the old country. (My daughter, who enjoys drawing faces on targets with her Beretta “Lethal Weapon” style, miraculously manages to stovepipe Glocks every single round.) Or perhaps it’s my freakishly stubby hands.

    Me, I’d grab (in barely descending order) a Sig, an XDM or my CZ. They make nice single ragged holes whether I’m using the sights (i.e. wearing my glasses) or not. (So does my 1911, but it’s too finicky to really trust.)

    As for my vote for Sword of Legend: .44 Automag. They just make me drool. (But I doubt I’d ever actually buy one.)

  32. avatar Daniel says:

    Great post, excellent writing and well-defined points.

    +4 internet points.

  33. avatar Shawn says:

    Sounds like Yeager only a little more profound and a lot less profane. Personally, I’d take a 1911.

  34. avatar Brian in Seattle says:

    I’ve tried Glock. Never shot them well. I tried a friend’s M&P9 and shot it passably well. At the time I had a Combat Commander that I shot very well. For some reason, I sold it and bought an M&P45. This gun I like quite a lot and with a couple of mods, it has become well suited to my needs. A couple of years after that I felt the need to own a 9mm, having never owned one before. Right about then the revised trigger version of the Ruger SR9 came along. I really liked the way it fit in my hand and the price was right. So I bought it and headed to the range. This gun points more naturally than any gun I’ve ever owned. Likes any ammo except PMC. A few of my friends have tried it. The Glock guys are impressed with the slim profile and mag capacity. The 1911 guys are impressed with how much the grip feels like a 1911. And mag capacity. The HK guys are impressed with the cost. The only thing I don’t like is the goofball little thumb safety. Aside from that, this is a nice gun and worth considering.

  35. avatar Jason says:

    If you really thought you’d need a gun tomorrow, and you had free choice, you’d be a fool to choose anything but a Glock.

    Could you pack more ignorant bias into a single story? You can tout the reliability of a Glock all day, and few people will argue with you. And you can claim that it’s the right gun for you. But there are many guns out there that are just as reliable (if not more). And some of those guns fit certain shooters better than a Glock, while others do not. I would personally take an XD or a CZ-75 over a Glock without hesitation, because they fit my body ergonomics far better than a Glock.

    there was never any genuine reason to prefer the [CZ-75] over more readily-available products
    Now it’s getting personal.
    How about that it’s the most widely used handgun in the world? Or the fact that it has a smooth, consistent trigger pull? Or that it’s more accurate? Or that the grip angle is better for most people? Or that it had a reputation for quality and reliability when Gaston was still making shovels?

    These statements, and really the entire post, show a foolishness that goes far beyond that of the guy who picks an inferior gun because it’s shiny. The shiny gun guy makes a poor decision, because he doesn’t have a lot of information. Jack Baruth makes a poor decision, because he’s too much of an idiot to accept information that challenges his limited world view. Now that I think about it, it’s the same sort of mentality that most of the anti-gun crowd displays.

    1. avatar Jack Baruth says:

      So the CZ-75 is as reliable, or more so, than a Glock 17?

      1. avatar Nagurski says:

        My CZ has never jammed. I don’t know if it will still be perfect ten years down the road but its been good to me so far.

    2. avatar Renegade Dave says:

      In my opinion, Glock sets the bar for the modern expectation of reliability. There is a threshold that Glock was able to hit that made it the standard to which other guns were judged. There are definitely other pistols that meet that standard, but at this point, it’s more of a boolean/binary value rather than an ordinal value. “More reliable than a Glock” may indeed exist but it’s so far beyond the threshold of required reliability that it becomes wasted energy arguing #1 that it exists and #2 it’s important to move the bar that much higher.

      You are, in essence, proving the author’s point.

      1. avatar Lucas D. says:

        Oooh, pulling out the math terms, are we?

        Tell you what, Pythagoras, why don’t you use some of that gigantic brain to look up what the “75” in a CZ-75 stands for…?

        1. avatar Renegade Dave says:

          I learned both terms in a basic high school computer science class 15 years ago. You can paint me as a smarmy pseudo-intellectual if it helps, but it doesn’t change the point.

          The CZ may rival the Glock in many ways, other than one very important way: Perception. Glock’s notoriety during it’s American ascent.

          The CZ very well may be “better” but it will not replace Glock as the “standard” any time in this generation and potentially next until someone decides to make a weapon that performs better and is cheaper than a Glock. At that point your Glock devotees will become the equivalent of 1911 guys.

  36. avatar Jeff says:

    Well written, and an interesting observation. I’m a Glock guy, because I am practical. But if I am writing fiction, my characters will all have guns more capable of conveying their personality. And we do make judgments about people (real or fictional) based on their chosen weapons.

  37. avatar Observer says:

    Wonderfully written (if not controversial). Love the Joseph Campbell reference. All of it bound to frustrate every GED-constrained, Arfcom-type who stumbles upon it.

  38. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

    You have been informed that you are 100% certain to be in a gunfight tomorrow and that you can only take one pistol and one backup magazine with you. You don’t know what the weather will be, what the number of opponents will be, what the lighting conditions will be. Nothing is certain but the this: you’re going to have to fire your weapon in anger.

    Hmmm. Am I going to have to contend with the po-po afterwards? Will I have to have dueling press conferences with Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson if the po-po aren’t there afterwards? If I can assume that I won’t have to contend with the police or the Justice Brothers, then I’m probably not bringing a Glock. I have better choices in both mag capacity and handling.

    Even then, tho, such mythical constructions are silly. If I knew that it was 100% certain that I’d be in a gunfight tomorrow, I’m not bringing a pistol. I’m bringing a rifle. If someone says “someone will be enforcing the rule that you can’t have a rifle,” then my first round out of the rifle is to shoot the umpire, then get on with the rest of my day.

    I pack a pistol because packing a rifle everywhere is inconvenient. I pack a Glock because they’re a functional piece of crap, over which I’ll shed no tears if the po-po decide to seize it. Six more pictures of that randy old man Ben Franklin and I can have another Glock in 10 minutes.

    1. avatar Lucas D. says:

      Thank you, Dyspeptic Gunsmith. I have a Glock and I appreciate its durability and function just fine, but this fanboy can take his hypothetical bullsh!t and ram it.

    2. avatar jwm says:

      Ayup. I’m going to be a cranky old man and bring what I damn well please to the fight. And if possible I’m getting there first, taking position, and killing sh1t til sh1t decides that fvcking with a cranky old dude just ain’t worth it.

  39. avatar MrVigs says:

    I went into my LGS to buy a Glock brand Glock and the guy talked me out of it. He said that the XDm was a better package for less. Also, many of his Glock customers were buying the XDm and telling him just how much they loved it. One of those guys was actually there picking up a PMR for his kid and had no problem endorsing the XDm over the Glock. So now I own a Springfield brand Glock in 9. Love the way it shoots. I’m accurate. 19 + 1 cap. Sexy case for all the goodies. What’s not to like? Does anyone make higher cap mags that I should know about?

    1. avatar Stinkeye says:

      Your story is bullshit. Not because of the XDm praise, but because of your ridiculous claim of having seen someone buying a PMR-30. You might as well have said he was buying a unicorn saddle for his mermaid… 😉

      1. avatar Matt in FL says:

        I got stuck on that part, too.

  40. avatar 5spot says:

    Did you anti Glock grip angle guys see the Tac TV clip yesterday? There is an addition you can add to protect your hand from the slide in the proper high purchase grip (like a beavertail). Looks like it brings the degree of the grip/barrel more in line with the 1911. No more canting the pistol forward to align sites.

    ps. I don’t own a Glock because of the grip angle but am more interested now.

    1. avatar Renegade Dave says:

      Gen 4’s ship with beavertail backstraps now. They’re nice, but may require you to install extended mag releases to avoid shifting your hand to hit the mag release.

  41. avatar JoshuaS says:

    Glock fanboy a bit?

    I do admit, I don’t see much a need for 10mm. If one needed better penetration, there are better options. And if one wants handgun hunting (and note Glock touts their 10mm for that), a long barrel revolver is a better choice.

    But Glocks? Hey if it works for you. Never held a Glock that fit right in my hand. And I operate other semi auto’s with much more ease. Shoot an XD with much greater ease, and a 1911 even better. But that is me. It might have to do with me shooting with a one handed grip (no two hands for me, due to a handicap).

  42. avatar JaredFromTampa says:

    I find these fan boy trolling, flame war inducing articles fairly tiresome. Can we just review a Bren Ten or something in 10mm and go back to bashing MAIG and MDA? Or how about we just post an article touting 9mm over 45 ACP? That could be fun. Oooo, or we could get into an AR v. AK conversation. Cripes all mighty it must be Friday <.<

    I own Glocks, I like them, but there are other guns that are just as good if not better. My Sig 228 and Sig Pro SP2009 holds just as many rounds and is equally reliable, the same can be said about my CZ-75s. I like them all equally and they all get range and carry rotation.

    1. avatar Lucas D. says:

      See, you’re the kind of guest writer we need on this site, not elitist goons who bait us with a write-up on the Bren Ten and then deliver a drawn-out circlejerk about the superiority of Glocks instead.

      1. avatar JaredFromTampa says:

        Thanks, but I tend to pontificate at length about bullshit when writing anything longer than a response, I doubt RF would publish it 🙂 I was disappointed as well when it turned out this wasn’t a review of the Bren Ten 🙁

  43. avatar Renegade Dave says:

    I’m surprised people are reading this more as an endorsement of a brand of pistol and rather the underlying point: We convince ourselves that we NEED certain things over and above an acceptable level of quality/reliability because we want them. It’s true of golf clubs, guitars, cars, basically anything men can buy and argue about on the internet.

    I think it is a great article.

    1. avatar Lucas D. says:

      He underscores his point by stating that if it weren’t for silly things like image and mythos, we’d all carry nothing but Glocks. By doing that, he’s claiming that the Glock is objectively the greatest handgun design in the world, and such supremely arrogant fanaticism is just begging to be met with a violent backlash.

      And now he’s getting it, so don’t feel sorry for him.

      1. avatar Jack Baruth says:

        The Glock is the best tool for the job.

        This has been demonstrated time and time again.

        Not the most accurate, not the comfiest, not the scariest. Simply the most likely to fire under the widest range of circumstances. If you dropped your pistol into the mud in the middle of a firefight, in the moment while your hand reached for it you’d pray for it to change into a Glock.

        The fact that there are people who buy fake glocks from the S&W Sigma* forward and then claim superiority for THOSE pistols just hammers the point further home.

        I used to be able to shoot into an inch at 25 yards with my Gold Cup but, as noted above, every time it went into my carry bag it was a triumph of myth and self-deception over reality.

        * Sure It’s Glock, My Ass

        1. avatar Lucas D. says:

          Wha-? When the f*ck am I going to deploy my concealed piece while surrounded by mud?! Stop using these stupid hypotheticals to prove your point. I could claim that a 155mm Howitzer is the greatest gun ever because if you’re ever attacked by a squadron of light anti-infantry aircraft you’ll appreciate that level of stopping power, but that would be desperate and grasping and I damn sure wouldn’t expect a cookie for my logic.

          Long story short: I don’t know or care who the hell you are, so you don’t have the built-in cachet you think you have to just instantly convince me on such flimsy grounds. If Glock is what works for you, way to go, but don’t ever try to tell me I’m wrong for not relying on one.

          GOT IT?

        2. avatar Jack Baruth says:

          Lucas, you must live in what Bob Marley called the Concrete Jungle.

          If you ever stand or walk over grass or dirt in your daily routine, and it ever rains where you live, then you could drop your pistol into mud.

          If not, then you have my authority-free permission to carry a gold-plated Makarov rechambered for 38 Super.

        3. avatar JaredFromTampa says:

          Glocks are great pistols, hands down, no argument there, however, to say that they are the best “tool for the job” is a stretch. What job is that? Apparently there weren’t the best tool for Army aircrew, because we were issued M9s, not G17s. Navy SEALs carry Sig Sauer p226s. My wife is a nurse, she carries a J-frame snubby.

          The choice of which gun is best is highly subjective. It depends on circumstance, comfort, intended use, etc…I carry a Glock 26 most of the time, because it works for me. That doesn’t mean it’ll work for my wife, her scrubs would sag. It doesn’t mean it would work for anyone else… I carry a Kel-Tec PF9 when I go running and walk my dogs, because it is the best tool for that situation. Saying unequivocally that something is “the best” is crass and bound to offend others…I’m certainly not flaming you, but I don’t blame the people calling you out dude.

        4. avatar ropingdown says:

          My god, Jack, you’re actually serious? There are lots of actually gunfights, mostly of the on-offense type, in which accuracy of the first aimed pair is much more important than the probability that gun will get past 30,000 rounds without a spring change. And the guy shooting the pair is occasionally swimming to the fight, and not with a Glock, but more likely with a Sig, HK, or 1911. As for dropping a pistol on the lawn, no, it isn’t anything like dropping one in wet mud, unless your lawn crew is incompetent. I’d ask Gunny about the Glock, but he was never in combat either, just like Jeff.

          As a riff on men and their tools, the writing was amusing. If you are serious about the Glock being the best tool when weight and bulk doesn’t matter, you’re a gun amateur. Joseph Campbell would have pointed out that you’re simply shifting your allegiance to the dominant cult as a position of social safety.

        5. avatar jwm says:

          I’ve never claimed my Sigma was a Glock. My Sigma feels better in the hand than any Glock I’ve used. It’s just as reliable(if no jams or other malfunctions counts) and it was half the cost of a Glock.

          Now, since someone mentioned Maks. Apples and oranges really. But I’ll bet my Mak will keep going thru anything a Glock will.

        6. avatar benny says:

          holy shit.
          why are we fighting the glock wars here? jesus christ Jack, you should have thrown in the usual (but if a different gun works for you, feels better, is more accurate go for it) line. youre getting lit up like the 4th of freaking july!!! Lucas sounds like he’s ready to pistol whip you with his non glock (though why hes being so butt hurt is beyond my comprehension.)

          arent gun owners supposed to live and let live? or am i a minority?

      2. avatar Renegade Dave says:

        See, the context of the article doesn’t imply “best”, but does conjure up “most practical/reliable”. People are interpreting that as “best” and thereby crying “Ow! My feelings!” and going off on tangents about why their chosen sidearm is clearly the better choice than a GLOCK brand Glock.

        What is humorous is more than a few people have thrown out Glock clones and begin to argue about why their off-brand Glock is better than a GLOCK brand Glock, which kind of proves the whole point of the article.

        At the end of the day, it is box to check, and how much more (or less, in some cases) you are willing to spend to check that box. Regardless of what you carry, it is more than likely compared to a Glock rather than the other way around.

        1. avatar Chucky says:

          Well, considering that the author says: “The Glock is the best tool for the job. This has been demonstrated time and time again” in a comment just above.

          I’d say the ones who have an issue with the article are fairly justified.

        2. avatar Renegade Dave says:

          Yeah but he does that after establishing the context of needing a weapon that will practically never fail regardless of condition, which puts constraints on “best”, at least in my mind.

    2. avatar Matt in FL says:

      I think you’re right, that it was a great article, except that he was endorsing GLOCK-brand GLOCKs, more or less. You’re right that his point that we convince ourselves that we NEED things, but his statement didn’t stop there. He held up the GLOCK-brand GLOCK as pretty much the pinnacle of gun design. “We convince ourselves that we need things, but all anyone really needs is a GLOCK-brand GLOCK, because nobody else really does it any better.”

      1. avatar JaredFromTampa says:


  44. avatar Catachanninja says:

    A true pleasure to see Mr Baruth in these spaces, he is probably the coolest man alive

    1. avatar SteveInCO says:

      I tend to agree with those here who think he’s merely being an arrogant Glock fan-boy.

  45. avatar Hannibal says:

    “This gun is superior and anyone who takes anything else is basing their opinion on emotion” says the writer who then bases his view of the favored gun on… one data point?

    Yeeeeah… pretty sure there’s some emotion there…

  46. avatar Aharon says:

    If it must be a pistol then it is the CZ for me.

    1. avatar Renegade Dave says:

      A number of guys I shoot weekly matches with have migrated over to CZ’s. Some of them started there because they refused to run a Glock, but even some Glock guys have converted recently. They do feel good in hand. I’ll try one when we are renting guns for my wife.

  47. avatar Stephen M. says:

    Two things.

    Regarding the initial question…FNP45. Mostly because I’m more familiar with it, but I’ve also yet to see my Veronique malf on me, and I sure have tried to make her. Beyond that, 28 rounds of .45ACP is a whole pile of ammo.

    Secondly…this seems to be such a waste of a Campbell reference. I get this is a gun blog relatively unpopulated by sneering literary elitists, but for a second there I saw just a glimmer of hope.

  48. avatar JaredFromTampa says:

    To answer the initial question, 30rds is all I get: I’d leave my Glock at home and bring my S&W 686 with 5 speed loaders. I’ve had a Glock jam on me, the 686 eats anything, and if 30rds doesn’t solve the conflict, I can bludgeon my opponents to death with it when I run out.

    1. avatar Michael B. says:

      Do you have a pre-lock one?

      1. avatar JaredFromTampa says:

        Yes it is a pre lock, it was a gift from my dad. I love that gun. If open carry were legal in Florida it would be my EDC.

  49. avatar JLR84 says:

    “How many of us would take anything but a Glock? . . .”

    Presumably those of us who already own, train with, and carry other guns.

    “If you really thought you’d need a gun tomorrow, and you had free choice, you’d be a fool to choose anything but a Glock.”

    My M&P has been no less reliable than the Glocks owned by the various folks I train with. If anything the Gen4 seems to be plagued with issues, whereas the M&P is constantly getting better.

    I’m not trying to knock the Glock, mind you. It’s a fine gun, and I have no problem recommending one to anybody. However it’s not the only option these days when it comes to super-reliable polymer framed striked-fired combat handguns.

  50. avatar Arod529 says:

    The top 3 reasons why Glocks are horrible:

    1. Their pretentious, emotionally fragile fan boys.
    2. Their pretentious, emotionally fragile fan boys.
    3. Their pretentious, emotionally fragile fan boys.

  51. avatar ggrimes2 says:

    Was that a Glock Ad?
    I’ll take my kimber 1911 custom everytime. I’ve had, sold and shot many, many Glocks, maybe because I’m older I just DO NOT like the trigger on a Glock plus its a fugugly pistol. Lots of us trained with the double/single action triggers as LEO’s because of the revolver in use. Later the double/single action of the semi-auto was a natural feel. I still have an HK USP in .40 cal between 4-5K rounds to date with zero fail to feed nice trigger and not bad looking. The .40 may not be a .45 but its a whole lot better than a 9mm. CZ has always made a quality weapon don’t know what the problem is there as the ones I sold as a dealer always worked. Only customer gripe was a lack of good aftermarket mags for many years.

  52. avatar ropingdown says:

    In rebuttal, after enjoying the piece for its (my view) humor, I have to comment that the post is classic magazine writing, drafted to read quickly as the dragon is created: “If you want to be Saint George, first you must create a dragon to slay”:

    The Glock 17 pistol and its successors have been tirelessly vilified, demonized and even libeled by the firearms-hating American media since before it found a single owner on this continent. No. The Glock was, from the first, fetishized as the wonder gun of the Miami cocaine gangs. So, naturally, the police wanted one. As PDs adopted it for its revolver-like revolver likeness and super-capacity, the press started to treat it as America’s Gun, because, well, what does the press know from guns?

    If you really thought you’d need a gun tomorrow, and you had free choice, you’d be a fool to choose anything but a Glock. No. We’d accept statistical reality and realize that we’re only going to fire at most three or four shots and that the accuracy and speed of the first pair is key. Most of the very best shooters in the actual I-shoot-people business actually still choose 1911s, Sigs, or HK products. But they’re wrong, right? (Delta went to Glock primaries due to expense issues, lack of maintenance budget, not preference. But they still keep 1911’s and other pistol designs in the shed.)

    Jeff Cooper, a man who never “saw the elephant” of which he wrote so eloquently and who, according to a mutual friend, was a much better writer than he ever was a shooter. OK, credit awarded for this sentence. Gun Guys decided to take their shooting and pistol advice from a no-combat former Marine officer, but one who projected a clean-cut no-nonsense conservative ethos while penning sharp comments? Why? “Who was Fairbairn?” the same guys typically reply. Answer: He was the guy who actually had gun-fight experience and developed superior training methods, who actually put the .45ACP Gov’t Model into use in a large police force, and who disabled the thumb safeties on those pistols. Smart or what?

    At some point, somebody said something about punching through body armor and car engine blocks, but surely nobody ever actually bought a 10mm hoping to stop a car. Nobody said those things with a straight face, and it is a prime example of dragon construction. Somebody said “The FBI says it’s the best.” That was enough. Then somebody said, “But the FBI wussed out.” So cops quickly said “Me too.”

    The 10mm didn’t do anything better than existing pistol calibers, but it was different, and that was nice. No. The 10mm did two things better than the .45ACP (in worn .45 pistols on hand) according to the FBI Quantico testing SAs: It shot more accurately than the .45ACP in their stock Smith pistols, slightly, and delivered more energy at 50 yards. It did these things better than any existing cartridge that an average (not petite) FBI SA could handle. Loaded up to its SAAMI max, 10mm is the .357 Magnum +P of the semi-auto pistol world.

    The anti-gun media, were they to become particularly sensitive to this, would no doubt characterize it in demeaning pseudo-sexual terms or make references to Walter Mitty. This is the fail of the fetish-theme: The media anti-gun pundits major in demeaning all guns as fetish objects, because …Hollywood. The high-capacity-loving super-reliability-touting Glock fans have never been exempt from this. They, too, and especially, are considered Walter-Mitty-dreams heroic fantasies boys who only need reliability and lots of bullets, ’cause they are ‘all business,’ no fluff, dishwasher-safe-gun hard men ready for anything. The Glock has already been fetishized, which is one reason to carry an H&K, uh, crunchenticker. (It deserves the teutonic-sounding epithet more than any Czech-designed gun.)

    1. avatar Pat says:

      The Glock is only great due to its price point. Paying almost twice as much for an HK or Sig, even though the performance is roughly the same, makes Glock attractive (even if the gun is kind of ugly).

  53. avatar G Boyd says:

    I was so sorry to hear that the “new” Bren Ten met a death of defeat. Really looked forward to getting one. A gun and a mag you say ? I would have to go to my trusty, no longer produced, Beretta 40 caliber Cougar with a 20 round magazine times two. 40 rounds of 40 cal in a gun that just does not fail.

  54. avatar DJStuCrew says:

    At last… the props it deserves! Yeah, them Glocks ain’t pretty. They aren’t glamorous. Haven’t seen anybody doing any scroll work on ’em, or plating them in gold (although I wouldn’t be surprised if some drug honcho or rapper did it). But they shoot well, they’re consistent and they always go “bang” when you need them to. Every problem I’ve ever had with one always boiled down to bad ammo, with a single exception that my daily carry gun needed springs after suffering several summers of my sweat leaching directly IN to the weapon. (Nothing deserves that!) Thanks, Jack. Nicely said.

    1. avatar Accur81 says:

      Interesting read. I get excited about Glocks. Not in a mystical manner, mind you, but because they work for me. My Glock 23 has been very reliable. I also get excited about 1911s, and have my eye on several. I’m looking forward to owning a quality .45 someday. Smith M&Ps work well also, as does the XD. A good Smith revolver runs like a Swiss watch. On duty, I’m stuck with a Smith 4006. One size fits all (that’s the way the government rolls).

      Going to a gunfight, I’d personally take an AR or my Mossy 930. Body armor, too. The 300 AAC looks to be a CQB monster, but I don’t own one, so 5.56 or 6.8.

      If I was absolutely, positively certain that my DGU gun was to spend purgatory in an evidence locker it would indeed be a Glock. They are replaceable, and I currently own 4.

      As long as what you carry is done so responsibly and fired accurately, then I say carry on. I look forward to learning from those who know more than me, and mentoring those who don’t.

  55. avatar benny says:

    Me personally, i havent gotten to fire enough of a variety to pick a go-to handgun.
    SIGMA 9
    thats pretty much everything handgun ive ever shot. i would LOVE to shoot a CZ-75. its got a cult following that rival the 1911 (or glock) and it looks hella comfortable. id also jump at the chance to shoot a browning HP. sadly enough, Resident evil 2 (the game, NOT the movie) was my first time seeing the HP and its been an OOD ever since.

    now if anyone would like to donate any of those for a good T&E session here in dallas….

  56. avatar doesky2 says:

    I find it quite strange that there seems to be many CZ fans here but when I go to gun shows and LGSs there seems to be very few CZ’s. The fan percentage here just does not seem to align with what is on the shelves. My SP01 runs like a dream.

  57. avatar Out_Fang_Thief says:

    That’s what you call dropping a Glock grenade and watching the resulting chaos that inevitably ensues. Did you know that the name Glock, came from the sound the plastic and metal gun made when it hit the pavement after slipping out of the profusely sweating hands of its users under stressful conditions. True. Well, the last part anyway. If you’re taking your Glock to a life or death gun fight, be smart, wear gloves. You will be sweating…..profusely.

  58. avatar Jim says:

    I had the opportunity to handle/shoot a Bren Ten at the IPSC Nationals at Virginia Beach in the early 80’s. It wasn’t 10mm, but a .45acp. It was big, clunky, and had a terrible (to me) trigger. I had Jeff Cooper looking over my shoulder while I fired it, telling me how it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Not to me it wasn’t.

  59. avatar Joseph says:

    I’d take a rifle and two of whatever pistols I wanted plus plenty of extra mags. ALWAYS Cheat it a gunfight.

  60. avatar Mark says:

    I have seen more Glocks lock up than two of my 1911s which, between the two of them, have 40k rounds down the pipe with zero stoppages. Personally, if I KNEW I was going to be in a gunfight tomorrow the 1911 would be by my side. I actually have one Glock, oddly enough in 10mm, a round which I really like. got the Glock because I don’t care how much it gets dinged up. It’s clunky, offensive as a tool, more difficult to conceal, to it’s credit it is relatively accurate and the sights are good but slower with the first round on target than the 1911, and, when I can do El Presidente in 7.4 with zero down with a Glock I will carry one. That said, carry what you like, you are not wrong.

  61. avatar Observer says:

    OMFG. Armed Intelligensia my ass. I’m amazed that such a large majority commenters choose to engage in a circular firing squad of “my gun is better” rather than notice – much less discuss – the more subtle, yet more poignant, main point of the article – a person’s primary consideration in choosing a weapon is how it suits them and how it is part of their story. But, no. Because another Glock flame war is more productive and engaging. Flame on, my friends. Let’s keep reinforcing the stereotype that gun owners are irascible troglodytes lacking the capacity to consider anything more than plastic vs. stainless.

    1. avatar Accur81 says:

      It looks like you missed much of the conversation yourself, sir. Try reading and comprehending a bit before casting your lot. The POTG are an opinionated lot. If that isn’t to your liking, you can pick up a shiny Guns & Ammo mag where every brilliant new gun tested runs 100%.

      1. avatar Observer says:

        On the contrary, I not only read the article but also managed to slog through the comments, thus mine. But I do appreciate your attempt to undermine my comment with nothing more than supposition on your part. Which is disappointing since your comments are usually a little more considered than that.

        You are correct, the POTG are an opinionated lot. To a fault. All thrust and no vector. Call it OFWG Syndrome or whatever. If half of the effort spent on just the Glock vs. the world debate the last 20 years had been channeled into articulating a public case for our natural, civil and constitutionally protected right to self-defense, we wouldn’t be dealing with limits on magazines or even carry licenses now. But, we can’t do that. Because pontificating about brands is more important.

        I have no idea what the hell you were trying to say with the G&A comment other than general asshattery. Like trying to imply that I don’t like debate. Because that was obvious in my last comment.

        1. avatar Out_Fang_Thief says:

          “If half of the effort spent on just the Glock vs. the world debate the last 20 years….”

          Rhetorical hyperbole isn’t helping expand the conversation either.
          Think about this. Essentially, the Glock is the Volkswagen Beetle of the handgun world. It isn’t pretty, but it’ll get your there. Now who in their right mind would claim that the VW Beetle is the greatest example of car manufacturing since sliced bread? The Glock is a built-to-price gun, like the VW, it’s affordable to the masses. The injection molding was not done for any other reason than removing the cost of machining those parts. That’s why they cost 20% less than just about every comparable full-frame gun you can name. What annoys most non-Glock and spiel POTG, is the insistence of Glock owners that their VW Beetle is the Pagani Zonda of the firearms world.

        2. avatar Accur81 says:

          Perhaps I was offended by the “irascible troglodytes” portion of your comment. Clearly the author is a Glock fan, but promotes his favor in a fashionable manner. I’m a fan of all sorts of firearms, and feel no irresistible urge to “correct” other shooters who choose different firearms, so long as that choice is based upon a measure of training and competence.

          Further, many of the commenters here, myself included, are actively involved in the battle being waged against the 2nd Amendment. We continue to do so amidst the same tired caliber arguments and platform preferences. We engage in such fancy during our leisure time, and still reach out to engage new shooters and recruit new advocates. We are imperfect shooters in an imperfect world, but we embrace the truth whereas civilian disarmament proponents actively subvert the facts. Simply put, there are a lot of good people here that I would enjoy sharing a drink with. That is something to consider before hurling generalized insults.

    2. avatar Anonymous says:

      Stainless is better. Everyone knows it. If Glock made an all stainless gun… I’d buy it!

  62. avatar Warren B says:

    CZ75D or a P99 for my smaller more manly hands. Feels right like a 24 year old hooters tart.

  63. avatar MDC says:

    I have both. G20 and a Tanfoglio Stock II. Both are fine,reliable pistols. What i did not here from viewers and writer was the fact that the 10mm cartridge is a handloaders delight and can be had and loaded from mild to wild. It has made a nice comeback recently and there are makers who load it to real power. Even with a Glock,some put in a stiffer recoil spring. There are light grain loads that pack amazing energy without over penetration.The Tanfo models also can be dealt with a stiff spring. This buisness about 10mm from the past is just that,past. It’s here to stay.And of course,a hunting round for woods.

  64. avatar Shaky Dave says:

    Great article. Really. All the history is right and I’m tickled pink that somebody finally exposed Cooper as a superb – really superb – writer but lukewarm shot. Left out that he was, according to everybody I know who also knew him, one of the most arrogant and unpleasant human beings to ever suck air into a pair of lungs, but by God that man could write.

    The bone I have to pick is the extolling of the Glock as a pistol that “goes bang every time you pull the trigger” which just ain’t so. I can personally attest that both my 26 and my 34 do not go bang every time I pull the trigger. In fact, they do so with no more regularity than my Les Baer 1911, and in fact, the 34 has cost me a match by choking and puking with factory ammo on a pud short course that was essentially a gimme as long as you could finish the course of fire within the time limit. The Glockster Brothers have experienced failure to fire, stovepiped on me, and in general exhibited every cranky tendency NOT to go bang when I wanted them to that every other pistol I own has at one time or another. Guys, there’s no such thing as a pistol that will fire each and every time. That one has never come out of anybody’s factory.

    Lest my comment be interpreted as a diatribe against Herr Glock’s excellent product, I’m not. It’s a great gun, just that in my case, several of my 1911’s are more reliable, and my CZs are even more reliable, SO FAR. One of these days, though, they’ll clutch up, too.

  65. avatar Marduk says:

    I’ve personally witnessed way too many Glock failures to believe the hype- failures to fire, failures to feed, stovepipes, spent shells ejecting onto shooter’s face, etc etc. One friend’s G19 (gen3) managed to do all 4 in a single afternoon. Also, after handling 3 different Glocks with rusty slides, I make sure to clean my G26 after every range trip.

    In my experience, Glocks truly are “best bang for your buck”- a cheap gun that (usually) goes bang (if you take good care of it). That said, I would never trust my life to one.

  66. avatar Mike says:

    The true sign of an examined life is knowing your limitations.

    Like a super car, cigarette boat or any other high performance dangerous object, discretion is the better part of valor.

    To say that the 9mm 124+p+ @ 1350 fps is the same as a 10mm 135JHP @ 1500 FPS is, well, simply ludicrous.

    Ir you want to carry a 32, 9, 40, 45 or even a 22lr, go for it. Practice , practice, practice. Better a 9 shot Taurus model 94 with a couple of speed loaders than nothing at all. Carry what what you feel comfortable with and dare I say ‘master’ it.

    I have 3000+ full power 10mm loads through my EAA Witness which I bought in late 1999 or early 2000 for $369. The only jam I have had was a factory Winchester 175 Silvertip squib load.

    I carry it virtually everyday. That’s because it works for me.

    If it doesn’t work for you, don’t carry it.

    But simply because it’s too much gun for you (or females at the California Highway Patrol) doesn’t make it to much or a gun in reality. I would argue that as a true rural “Highway Patrol” duty gun, it is probably perfect (read S&W 1006, the best 10mm auto ever made).

    The only advice I have for aspiring 10mm owners is make sure you replace your factory recoil spring with a 22lb one from Wolf (EAA Witness/S7W 1006).

  67. avatar ed says:

    jennings 25acp

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