(courtesy brietbart.com)

Over on our Facebook Page, Arjen San Miguel responded to the NYC Department of Education’s ban on the word “gun” in standardized tests. “The more I read about the crap going on in NYC, the more I feel squeamish about getting a job there. And mom plans to hook me up with a friend of hers there. NOPE. Definitely aiming for a gun-friendly state once I’m done with college here. Or just stay and enjoy the fact that the politicos here are smart enough to keep their mitts off lawful gun owners’ business.” We know that some gun guys have left gun-aversive states for more gun-friendly climes (e.g., me), but the fact that a young ‘un would eschew a gun control-intensive state is news. This non-immigration adds credence to the ballistic canary in the coal mine theory. As gun owners don’t go, so goes the nation? And if you live in a gun control (i.e. socialist) paradise would you encourage your child to emigrate?

Recommended For You

68 Responses to Question of the Day: Gun Control Brain Drain?

  1. I left Cali for Texas. Never thought I’d leave the great weather but the state was hostile to me as a gun owner and a car lover.

    • I’m a college student in CA. As soon as I’m done with my degree, I’m off to Oregon. Beautiful land, beautiful weather, no gun laws, and only a 5 hour drive from where I am now. So I can still visit family that stays behind enemy lines.

  2. When Minnesota was planning its big post-Newtown gun grab, I was planning on fleeing to Wisconsin so I could keep my job for the short term. It was the only viable retreat for me at the time.

    Thankfully, we were able to shut down the grabbers in St Paul. But if it came to it, I would get out. And if I ever have a kid, I’d encourage and raise them to be like me on this.

    • If you raise your kid to think independently, logically, and rationally, I’m sure they’ll come to the same conclusion you do, without any indoctrination.

      How’s Minnesota? I hear there’s a lot of snow, but otherwise it sounds like a lovely place.

    • As an invidual that resided in the St. Paul area for a number of years, I have a more than basic understanding of the political climate in MN. I lived there for about 6yrs while my wife and I went to school, so we maintained our WI residency.

      Right now a vast majority of the people I deal with on a day to day basis in my line of work are from the cities. I also go over there every few weeks and I also have friends that drive over to MN for work. They just choose to live here in WI for obvious reasons.

      Things aren’t great over in MN with permits to purchase (thought that was what the 2-A was for) and from there it will never cease until you get that off the books.

      The only way to win MN is a grass-roots effort to de-demonize gun owners in the St. PAUL/ Minneapolis areas & oust crooked politicians While at the same time instituting a real effort to castrate the evil elements of those areas.

      The areas around West Lake and East St. Paul are the major problem areas of shootings, kidnappings, etc.

      When Targets, Walmarts and the like only keep stores open in these areas, by use of multiple armed guards, (which only a hand few of these locations do because the patrans are blantantly theives and violent) for the sole purpose of Tax deductions and public opinion then indeed something is drastically wrong with society in those areas.

      They really do live like animals, a majority of them, in those areas & treat others the same way; with hatred & disdain.

      I am not speaking out of a lack of knowledge in this regard, trust me. I spent my fair share of time on E. LAKE St., I know first hand the good and bad that exists there.

  3. Leftist states like California don’t care about a brain drain, they care about voters, Democratic voters. As long as the Hispanic(Democratic voting) population continues to explode in California and the population of various (Democratic voting) Minorities grows in New York they could give to craps about your gun rights.

    Move to a state that gets it if you are a “person of the gun”. Wisconsin gets it, Florida gets it, Texas gets it, Arizona gets it, Georgia gets it, Indiana gets it…why live a miserable life of servitude behind the iron curtain?

  4. Oregon is very gun friendly compared to others. Ya just gotta like the rain. About 3 feet a year in the Portland Metro area…

    • Oregon is ruled by the same PPL that rule Kali and Wash. DC, just because they allow class 3 and ccw does not mean they are gun friendly. Socialists hate free PPL. Better to live in ID.

  5. I took a 50% pay cut and left a high tech job at an ivy league university where I was set for life without question to move to a gun friendly state. Wrote all the reps federal, state and local slectmen and told them all why I was leaving.
    I’m fully prepared to pack up my 30-something/hire-able/educated/experienced self and leave this state too if they pull that crap here.
    I dont have any grand illusions about loyalty to state or country. It’s just a place I happen to be living in for the time being and I’ll go where the grass is greener gun-wise when I have to and I encourage friends, family and strangers to do the same.

  6. When pro-gun folks don’t move to these states or actively move out of them, all that are left are the antis, the apathetic and the uneducated (as far as firearms go). Expect the gun laws to become more and more stringent in these states until we have states on either end of the spectrum, with no in-between. It’s already happening. Eventually this will have an effect in the national political theater.

    With the apathetic/uneducated flocking to the ‘big city,’ populations on the coasts continually swell. With antis and the media to whip up a frenzy, those states will have a lot of weight to throw around with Washington politicians.

    Not that I blame anyone for moving away, but I feel like the future is bleak for gun rights, no matter where a person is located. A quick death to gun rights for anyone in an anti-gun state and a slow death for gun rights for everyone else as a dedicated minority does everything they can to get their way.

    Sigh. Zombie apocalypse, where are you when we need you?

    • I do not agree with your conclusion about the outcome of polarization. To the contrary, it is a good thing if civilian disarmament (gun control) proponents flock to Hawaii, California, Illinois, New York, New Jersey, Maryland, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and Delaware. Because that means that gun rights proponents will increase in number and influence in the other 40 states. Remember that all states get two senators. Well the 20 senators from those 10 states are nothing close to a majority compared to the 80 senators from the other 40 states. If gun rights proponents elect senators in those other 40 states who support their rights, we won’t have to worry about the federal government eroding our rights any further.

      • Thank you for saying what I’ve been trying to for a while. Concentrating political clout in a few places for the antis while we maintain the majority of states is the death knell of gun grabbing. You can’t fix Cali and the places like it, you can live free and support the rights of others in states that aren’t broken.

  7. It’s one thing to choose not to move there, another to leave your home because you feel overwhelmed by the ‘oppression’. I’m a Cali native, and I know people who’ve moved to Texas ‘because of the gun laws’, when you do so you’re just being a quitter and abandoning the fight. If you’ve got enough money to pick up and move to another state, how about instead using your influence as property owner/taxpayer/voter to be more politically active? Moving to Texas is a passive pansy way out, and look at the idiotic laws they’re pushing onto their women over there. It’s like a little Taliban state. Everything is big in Texas they say, including the misogyny. Running away from politicians isn’t the American way. Grass roots activism is. Look at all the hippies and gays who pushed marriage equality through! If they can do it, why can’t sensible gun owners do it too? Use your voice!

    This walking around, open-carrying with intent to confront police about your civil right to be an ass, is idiotic at best, and not winning any hearts and minds. Finding a soap box (put down the rifle first) and talking to people is the way to do it. I’ve found that quite a few of my “liberal commie” friends and acquaintances are actually pretty easy to talk to, especially if I stick to facts and common sense and especially leave emotion in my back pocket. If they’re getting emotional, you know you’ve got them on the run. Smile, speak how you’d like to be spoken to. They’re just as human as we are.

    • @ JDub

      I’m all in with that.

      I often feel repressed and self conscious because of all the mindless anti gun politics in this state and apparent lack of visible resistance which is probably because of media sympathy with the gun grabber crowd.

      On the other hand my stubborn streak surfaces and I get motivated to ‘stand my ground’ against the injustice of the Democrats’ who are riding roughshod over ordinary law abiding citizens from their high towers in Sacramento and their local urban castles.

      The only real question is; at what point does it become so oppressively restrictive and confiscatory vis-à-vis gun ownership in CA that the only alternative for preserving one’s ability to keep and enjoy ones firearms is to leave for safer climes.

      • I’ll likely stay until I retire. I’ll call multiple members of CA state congress to oppose CA’s next idiotic wave of gun control legislation. People in CA are already risking jail time for the heinous crimes of using a standard capacity magazine. Frankly, I can see why many people want to leave. I’m at risk of losing my job because I advocate freedom and responsible firearm ownership.

        Freedom carries inherent risk, but I’ll take that over a mewling cowardice any day.

        • It can be risky to go against the flow, especially in law enforcement.

          But you’ve got to be true to yourself too, or you’re always uncomfortable and angry.

    • On the surface, this argument sounds valiant. But, there comes a time when you have to WAKE UP and realize that you are fighting a losing battle in places like Kalifornia. There are SO many reasons to leave that state beyond the gun issue. But, that’s not my point. Eventually, you realize that DELAYING the inevitable is simply depriving yourself of enjoying your RIGHTS… right NOW.

      Hmmm… do I tilt at the windmills in Kalifornia for the next 20+ years, claiming my moral high ground while NOT being able to enjoy my 2A rights. Or do I go somewhere else, where I can enjoy those Rights… RIGHT NOW?

      I spent 3 years in Kali… 20 years ago. It’s not better there now. It’s MUCH worse… in oh so many ways. And, all the indicators point to it continuing its path down the drain. There comes a time to abandon ship.

    • “…would you encourage your child to emigrate?”

      It will never be ONLY about guns.

      Both my son and daughter are out in the world, out of CA. I have and will continue to provide my young adult kids with information about the political anti gun issues that permeate CA and the nation.

      At some point, one, or to some degree both of my kids, may start receiving the firearms from my collection. At that point, largely with my assistance, they must be familiar and comfortable with the enjoyment, responsibilities, risks, and politics surrounding gun ownership. In most regards my son is already there; my daughter, not so much.

      Once firearms have been transferred to them, it will be their responsibility to prioritize their choices, including where to live and the challenges of anti gun jurisdictions. With regard to the firearms, I will do all I can to be sure they are able to make informed choices. The rest is up to them.

      I have great confidence in their ability to do what is best for their course in life, and will support and assist them in their chosen paths.

    • JDub, not sure if I agree with you. If you stay and continue to contribute your tax dollars and population (electoral votes) to a State that votes opposite of your firearm and other freedom related interests. I’m all for fighting the good fight but California has a super majority of mainly gun unfriendly democrats. That means the Republicans can’t stop a darn thing.

      You have no real political recourse in that state. The only thing left to do is vote with your feet. The fewer people that are in a state the less powerful it becomes. The less money a state has from its tax base the less Nanny State programs it can run.

      Those are my two cents.

  8. I moved BACK from PA to NJ recently for professional, and personal reasons.

    I am young, however. Only 25. And I think that in the long run I can see myself moving to TN, KY, PA, VA, or NC.

    I don’t get particularly excited thinking about raising my children in the North East. First I have to find one of those things that helps make the kids. I think they’re called wives.

  9. I’m 25 and live in Georgia. Born and raised. I will never move to New England, IL, or California explicitly because of those states’ hostility to gun owners (in their laws at least). The only states I’d consider moving to are Texas or Arizona.

  10. More than happy for all y’all to stay on the weird coast out in California.

    I am however curious about these idiotic laws. A doctor needs admitting privileges to a hospital before performing surgery? You can’t terminate a pregnancy past 5 MONTHS?

    Gosh, that almost seems sensical. Not perfect. Up for honest debate between rational adults. But sensical. Kinda like the gun laws here.

    • +1million. Almost laughed at the poster calling us a little Taliban because we feel that the life of a viable fetus trumps the whim of a female who forgot to terminate pregnancy before 5 months has passed. Also, our state must hate women since we were one of the first states to have a woman governor, and elected more afterward. Unlike Kommiefornia.

      • Abortions are illegal in most of Europe after the 1st trimester unless the mother’s life is in danger. The new 20 weeks law still puts Texas as more liberal than Euro standards on aborting babies.

        • The present abortion debate pales before the admitted fact that a growing body (or a growth on the Body Politic) of pro-abortion forces want abortion extended up to CHILDREN THREE YEARS OLD!! Dig around, you’ll find it. It’s not really hidden. And now you can see what these people are really all about: GENOCIDE.

          I would like to know how anyone could still be pro-abortion after learning of this.

        • The problem with prohibiting abortions after 5 months is that when something happens after that point and the pregnancy MUST end due to medical necessity, you get retards that refuse to perform the procedure, even if delaying will kill the mother.

          It’s asinine.

  11. I’m currently living in NY, own property in NY, family all lives here (including a recently added niece and another on the way) but i work in VT, I’ve often debated buying more property in VT and moving my residence, it would just make my trip to see family a little longer but i would end up benefiting in many other ways.

    problem lies that i don’t have the capital to buy more property as of yet

  12. Speaking of the “commies”, maybe moving to Russia would be preferable:

    From Wikipedia article on Gun politics:

    “According to Russia’s gun laws, Russian citizens can buy smoothbore shotguns, gas pistols, or revolvers shooting rubber bullets. Safe use of one of the above weapons for five years allows purchase of a rifle or carbine.
    In Moscow alone, some 400,000 people legally keep 470,000 weapons.”

  13. The real idea of emigration from Slave states is simply going to allow the majority of free states to dictate the trueness of the Constitution to them.

    We maintain majority rule, as States in commonality of Constitutional protections and we will be able to solidify things in regard to civil liberties.

    At that point we can then go back in and clean house of the crooks (lawyers and thugs alike) who are the true deprivation of the downward spiral.

  14. I turned down scholarships to Illinois universities to attend a private school in Indiana (That actually had a Student Government Association funded gun club that was the largest club on campus with a solid 5-figure budget).

    When I was close to graduation I had a friend offer to help get me a job with a power plant company, problem was they were in northern Illinois (Chiraq suburbs). I politely declined. I had my own list of states that were No-Go for employment. My home state of Illinois, along with CA, MA, NY, NJ CT, DC, MD, and several others were scratched off the list for either reasons of gun ownership or tax burdens (usually those two went hand-in-hand).

    I took a job in Florida and haven’t looked back. After I moved, I emailed my state rep and senator (I lived “downstate”, so the politicos were somewhat human) to inform them that due to Chiraq’s strangle hold on the rest of the state and the consequential treatment of gun owners like sec offenders, I would be taking my degree and my substantial (for a college grad) salary to a state that did a better job of respecting an individual’s rights. I still hold on to my Illinois FOID card to remind myself of what I will not go back to.

  15. Worked in the Superior Court of California for years and finally had enough of the politics both in the state and within the Government. I had first hand accounts of the impending train wreck.. When they told me I was getting laid off, it was a big dream come true. I cashed out on -everything- including my retirement. I got 6 months worth of Severance pay which amounted to $25k as well.. Once I had the money in hand, I packed up everything I could fit into my little Scion, and booked it to Arizona for another job. While I may not make anywhere near the amount of money I made in California.. I find myself enjoying life here. It’s just.. better.

  16. Sorry for the off topic reply, but is this the final layout? Viewed on a mobile device (android, using chrome or the stock galaxy s4 browser) all I see are post titles, so I have to click through to read any content. This is using the desktop site, not mobile version. What gives? It displays properly on chrome on my desktop.

    • Sounds like you’ve discovered something Chrome is good for. That’s quite a discovery.

      Damning Chrome by faint praise: It’s better than Explorer!

  17. I’m 30 something professional engineer. Gun control laws are a factor I consider before moving. I will not live in a Slave State. I have turned down a number of job opportunities because they were in California.

  18. C’MON. Gun control and socialism may stand on common ground, but they are different things. You and I may stand on common ground together, but you are not me, and neither am I you! We’ve seen gun control in various political systems, some antithetical to one another.

    One is a tactic, the other is a political system.

    • And I turned my back on both when I left Chiraq to return to Colorado. Unfortunately, in my absence, the progs got their act together and have really screwed up the state. Now to continue the job of setting it back on course.

      Ultimately I’ll wind up in Florida. I just hope it doesn’t get screwed up before I decide to go there full time.

    • Not in the US William. Here the mental defect that is socialist thought is welded to gun control. In fact, one could argue that it has to be since the implementation of socialism would have to be by force which isn’t possible with so much of the population armed.

  19. I have had this discussion with my son based on more than just gun rights. He is planning a career in the drug industry and I have told him that if he really wants to do that he should seriously think about emigrating out of the US. Government healthcare is going to destroy drug research in the United States and unless he wants an alternative career he should look to Asia or Switzerland for a job. Of course, he thinks dad is an idiot but he is going to find out fairly soon that his future is going to be in doubt.

  20. I graduated from engineering school just over a year ago. At the time I was more than willing to go where the work was, you can’t afford not to. That being said, I purposefully excluded NJ, MA, NYC, CA from my job searches thanks to the legal climates. Ended up in the middle of VA, and couldn’t be happier.

  21. as soon as school is not an issue for the kids, plan to emigrate to a friendlier state. anti-gun states are also high tax states.

    last one off the sinking ship…

    • Are you saying the kids going to school in another state is off the table?

      There’s a name for this mindset, and you should look into it: LEARNED HELPLESSNESS.

  22. ny ban the word “gun” in standardized testing! wow i am actually shocked about this one. they definitely suffer from dain bamage.

  23. I was born in Boston and lived in Massachusetts for 59 years. The last 35 of those years, I was active in the pro-gun movement, talking and writing to legislators, writing articles and letters to editors, joining demonstrations at the State House along with other members of GOAL and the NRA. Finally, in 1995, I’d had it. I was sick of the Commonwealth’s Democrat hegemony, high taxes, vile weather and the pervasive anti-gun atmosphere. This was not the Massachusetts where the colonists stopped a British gun grab at Concord and Lexington…far from it! I served my time in hell, and now I live happily in southern Arizona.

  24. I am an engineering student in CA. I will not stay here after graduation.

    What do I have to look forward to in CA? High taxes, high crime, tyrannical gun laws, high cost of living, high unemployment, and massive bias against conservatives. Not to mention an out of control bureaucracy, ridiculous amounts of red tape every time you want to do anything, even on your private property, entire industries controlled by environmental interests, and a public school system that is completely collapsing.

    I will finish my education here, and then promptly leave for greener pastures. I will not allow my life to be held back by out of control government, and I will not support them with decades of my tax dollars.

  25. People with high intelligence quotients have every bit as much potential to be irrational as anyone else. (Some would probably even argue that people with high intelligent quotients are even more likely to be irrational.) That means the illusion of safety in “tough” gun control states will draw some people with high intelligence quotients. Of course the oppressive culture of “tough” gun control states will also repel some people with high intelligence quotients.

    Which dynamic will dominate? Since academia is filled with people with high intelligence quotients, and most people in academia like gun control, I predict that gun control paradises will attract more people with high intelligence quotients than they repel.

    • I disagree. Of the people with high intelligence quotients, I do not believe those who want stricter gun control laws will move to different states because of that desire. Their freedom to not own guns is not affected in any way by gun control laws. However, those who want less restriction of their rights will be much more willing to move to freer states.

      In short, I think that people with high intelligence quotients, who also believe in gun control, will move based on job availability, among other factors, rather than gun control laws. While their counterparts who want looser gun laws will move based (more) on those laws. In short, controlling states will lose high-IQ people who want to be free, while gaining high-IQ people based on the merits of their other factors.

  26. I’ll bite on this one. I have been fortunate to live in several places and am only 30. Grew up in NM, moved to NY for 5 years, Denver for 2yrs and have been in Chicago for almost 3. Here is a rundown:

    NM: Fantastic – weather, cost of living and a CCW governor
    NY: Terrible. It’s not just guns, it’s the fact that you will never make enough money to be happy. You’ll never own a house, be able to afford private tuition, and are constantly having rules thrown at you and civil rights violated. I also equated living there as to living in a blackhole. The event horizon, depending on how NY centric you are, spans from E. Jersey to the Nassau/Suffolk line, and White Plains to Staten Island. Nothing matters outside of this area, and everyone/everything else outside of it less than if they were there. Definition of Big Gov and police state. They deserve whatever they get.
    Denver: Was great but was never going to be home like NM. Moved before the current push but you could feel it coming. Tons of transplants from all over. Could be great, will probably be ruined.
    Illinois/Chicago: Honestly was a little worried about moving here but picked it over NY. Chicago had the registration program for guns and a AWB. But moving right after the court cases, you could own guns. 2 years later and we have a state wide, handgun pre-emption (no chicago carve out to ban stuff, no handgun registration) and state wide SHALL issue. People keep pissing all over the new law. But everyone can now own a handgun (with the $10 state gun ID, takes a couple months). We can literally have Chicago as testbed for lessening gun control in one of the largest cities in the country. We know there won’t be shootouts etc. Good people can protect themselves. Before this law, I was looking at moving to Indiana. Now I can stay at my very centrally located apt which I can see some significant landmarks. So there’s hope, at least in the land of lincoln.

    • Riding on AMTRAK between Trinidad, CO and Raton, NM – yep, the Southwest Chief – an unexpected thing happens – either direction. Practically the second you cross the border, one is struck by a very surprising clear change of terrain. Try it sometime, if you get the chance. Northeastern NM looks strikingly different from Southeastern CO., and the change is THAT sudden. I’m not sure what it means, but the difference is very clear.

      • Hey William,
        One of my most memoral memories of the state is coming down I-25 through Raton and just seeing the landscape open up. It was about 5pm so a hour or so before sunset and the entire landscape and the mountains you can see 150 miles away bathed in what I can only describe as God’s personal sunshine.

        Funny you say you don’t know what it means. All I know is that I complained about Denver A LOT. Trying to tell people NM is better because the mountains are RIGHT THERE, not 3 hours away; Abq and Santa Fe don’t feel like a giant suburb that Denver does, and having so many different cultures from Hispanic, the Tribes, etc, mix makes it a truly special place.

  27. Good points, to all the above comments, thanks for taking the time to respond. Oregon and Nevada aren’t too far away. Being able to be open about being a gun owner as well as a ferret owner without fear of persecution/prosecution would be a nice change. The blind idiotic idealism around here is contagious. I’ve obviously been in this state too long.

  28. On the plus side, this means standardized tests in NYC won’t be able to mention guns in ways to disparage them. Double-edged sword, that one.

  29. I am 23 and have lived in New York City my entire life. I am definitely leaving the state of New York in the near future, and the availability of firearms elsewhere is a major reason. I cannot legally own a Red Ryder BB gun or Duracoat firearm paint in my home, let alone an AR-15 or concealed carry permit. I am looking at Utah and Oregon instead of similar western states specifically because they have permissive firearms laws. Otherwise I would be considering Colorado and most likely move to California. I don’t have any reason to stick around, I want to live in a place with better outdoor opportunities, and I have plenty of options, so I intend to settle in a state that will allow me to protect myself with firearms, hunt with same weapons if I choose, and participate in combat-style target and sport shooting. I am not staying in New York because it is hopeless and getting worse, I believe I will never be allowed to exercise my right to keep and bear arms here. I believe that if I wore a NRA hat people on the street would literally spit on me. I have an avid interest in safe, responsible, and ethical use of firearms and have some aspirations toward firearm design, and New York City is no place to be for any of that.

  30. Have you ever considered writing an e-book or guest authoring on other websites?
    I have a blog centered on the same topics you discuss and
    would love to have you share some stories/information.
    I know my readers would value your work. If you are even remotely interested, feel free to
    shoot me an e-mail.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *