RF courtesy, well, RF

I am not Trayvon Martin. I am not a black man. My ancestors were not carried to America in slave ships and denied their human rights. But my father was a slave under the Nazis and most of my father’s family were murdered in the Holocaust.

I am not Trayvon Martin. I am not a black man. But I am an African American and a Jew. I know what discrimination looks like. I know what it feels like. But I do not let it define me or my reaction to others. I do not let it change my behavior . . .

I am not Trayvon Martin. I am not a young man, but I was once. When I was a young man I was suspended from school for accidentally kicking a toy into a classmate’s eye. But I was never suspended for vandalism. No one ever discovered a screwdriver in my locker or stolen jewelry that I was “keeping for a friend.”

I am not Trayvon Martin. But I remember what it meant to be a teenager out at night, alone. I knew to walk cautiously. I knew to stay in the streetlights. I knew to look out for strangers. I knew to walk assertively yet avoid confrontation. I knew what it meant to be afraid.

I am not Trayvon Martin. I have never participated in a street fight. I have never gone looking for a fight. I have never attacked anyone. I have never straddled a person lying on the ground and punched them in the face or head.

I am not Trayvon Martin, but I know there may come a time when I have to fight to defend myself, the lives of my loved ones and/or innocent life. I know there is no other reason to inflict violence on another human being, regardless of their race, color or creed.

I am not Trayvon Martin. I am a gun owner. I am a man exercising his natural, civil and Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms. If Trayvon Martin was legally armed and legitimately in fear of death or great bodily harm he would have had the same right to defend himself by force of arms as I do.

I am not Trayvon Martin. But I am a parent who teaches his children to understand that actions have consequences. I do not blame society or history for their behavior. Or mine. Or anyone else’s. Because our rights are based on personal responsibility. And one day, one way or another, we will all be judged by what we did, rather than what was done to us.

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126 Responses to I Am Not Trayvon Martin

  1. I would prefer American’s take out the hyphen….

    I’m an American, that is all that needs to be said.

    Put “blank”-American and you continue to further fuel differences that shouldn’t be there….

    • “But I am an African American and a Jew.”

      I don’t see any effing hyphen, do you? You don’t get to decide on what people call themselves; you are allowed to air your opinion, but strive for more accuracy next time!

    • I am not Trayvon Martin, though he could have been me if he’d chosen a very different path in life.

      By his age I had been working in my aspired-to profession for a year (for free, to get experience), was starting college on scholarship, was contributing to my parents’ household budget, and was just being tapped for leadership in campus media.

      Of course, the people around me expected more of me than that I live and die on the streets of our Rust Belt ghetto, and then get a mob rally attesting to their lack of belief that I was capable of better.

      • BooYaa. The ugly facts that the left refuse delivery of.

        Hope you are doing well in your chosen career.

  2. We are the people, normal everyday people, and we’re not the problem. I think it’s sick some people refuse to educate themselves and rely on the misrepresentations of the media and politicians to defend the aggressor and seek to limit or remove our rights because they’re scared of an inanimate object (or more rarely what someone can do with that tool). We seek to at least have the tools to protect ourselves from crime we hear about every day in our own neighborhoods, but they’re afraid a gun will create random violence, and we’re the paranoid ones.

    I feel like I’m repeating the same messages over and over, but they keep using the same tactics again and again. As is said here, it isn’t hard to debunk them but it’s a tireless endeavor.

    • You’re right.

      Ours is a repetitive massage that must be oft repeated to counter the mind control efforts of the grabbers through their repeated misrepresentations and outright lies. The grabbers are trying to program the unknowing to accept and support their disarmament efforts as altruistic and good.

      The repetition gets old, but it is necessary.

  3. ‘Because our rights are based on personal responsibility. And one day, one way or another, we will all be judged by what we did, rather than what was done to us.’ except if you are a woman and have a pro-choice attitude then you will be treated as a second class citizen and your reproductive rights will be up for national debate and decided by people with no medical training. Just to be clear.

    • Just to be clear, babies are made only one way (in vitro excepted) and that’s through sexual intercourse. Sex is either consensual or non-consensual. If it was non-consensual, then the offender should be brought up on charges–period. If it was consensual, then both parties are responsible for the consequences of their actions, so have the baby and raise it with love and respect.

      Next time, instead of having sex and getting pregnant, how about keeping your f*cking legs shut. It’s all about personal responsibility and accountability for your actions. You, clearly, are willing to take the life of another out of convenience to you.

      • Thanks Jbarr. I am not strictly aligned with any view on the abortion subject, but I am tired of people conveniently forgetting about the personal choices that lead to pregnancy.

        This is just more left wing propaganda to demonize opposing views. If someone is too poor/irresponsible/lazy/not ready to have a child, either use some sort of birth control (which the user pays for, not our tax dollars), or don’t have sex.

        Or put it in the bum. See, I am pro choice.

      • Married women for example have a right to avail themselves of medical procedures that are legal.

        Married women have no responsibility to keep their legs shut. Matter of fact, ask any married man and I am sure he’d prefer they be open 24x7x365

        In the scope of an otherwise responsibile and reliable birth control strategy, it is always possible that an accident will happen and / or the baby will have serious health issues.

        Not everyone agrees that something not yet born is a baby. Sorry. You don’t get to tell me what my morals and standards for life are. If you are opposed to abortion, don’t get one. Problem solved.

        • “Married women have no responsibility to keep their legs shut. Matter of fact, ask any married man and I am sure he’d prefer they be open 24x7x365”

          One’s preference should not necessarily dictate one’s actions. It sounds more like unresolved marital issues.

          “In the scope of an otherwise responsible and reliable birth control strategy, it is always possible that an accident will happen…”

          And since you clearly admit that you know that there is always the possibility that birth control may fail, resorting to abortion to take care of an “accident” is clearly irresponsible.

          “…and / or the baby will have serious health issues.”

          Tell that to the likes of Stephen Hawking or Hellen Keller.

          YOU are accountable for YOUR actions, and the baby that grows inside you, regardless of the reason its existence came about, relies on YOUR responsibility.

        • jbarr -You secretly want abortion to be available because there are people in society you want to get abortions. You think white middle class women should not get abortions but poor black women and white trash trailer park denizens should have full, unquestioned availability to such service. If it came to state funded abortions being available to illegal immigrants who wanted one you would be damn sure the money was in the budget for it. Which do you want- anchor babies or abortions? Children are a responsibility but it is no right if you cannot take care of them or yourself.

      • all of you should be ashamed for assuming that every person who wants/needs an abortion requires one because of their irresponsibility and makes the decision with the same consideration as what to have for dinner.

        obtuse and arrogant doesn’t even cover it.

        • Yep, Mina, everybody wants to be pro-life…until that girlfriend on the side which they “never ever intended to have, really” shows up with Big Boy’s surprise three-month-anniversary prize. Not so pro-life now, eh? “Well, yes, but…..”

    • A-Rod: Which has f*ck-all to do with… What, exactly? This isn’t The Truth About Ovaries, you maniac.

    • It’s not about your reproductive rights. It’s about the murdering of the person being created via your reproduction. You’re using the same mis-direction tactics the gun grabbers do. I don’t need a medical degree to know what’s right and wrong. That was taught to me by my parents, school teachers and my church. Taking of a life is tragic. Taking a life by murder, especially because it’s inconvenient, is heinous. I’ll let GOD do the judging.

      • it’s a legal medical procedure. if you don’t like it, don’t get one. if you don’t think it should be available as a medical procedure, try to get it made illegal.

        • “Try to get it made illegal.” Uh-huh, that’s happening and people are screaming bloody murder to protect their “right” to kill little babies who’s only crime is existence. Sex creates babies. That’s what it does. When you have sex, it might create a baby, regardless of whatever else you do. It’s a known, and in this day and age, understood risk of having sex. I see no reason why you should be able to kill other people, specifically little babies that are genetically distinct from the mother and the father, just because the mother didn’t intend to make them or they are now inconvenient. You engage in the act, deal with the consequences without killing other people.

        • Actually, it is not being made illegal, just being restricted more. And taxpayers’ money is being stripped away from paying for abortions.

          Comes down to two simple facts. Abortion is a medical procedure. If you want one you should pay for it.

          Oop. There it is.

        • and I agree with that , wholeheartedly.

          there are many “elective” medical procedures that should be paid for “in cash”.

          this is one of them. right along with face lifts and tummy tucks and whatever else.

          and for whoever called me “sweetie” – I surely ain’t your sweetie. not today, not tomorrow. speak to me respectfully or not at all. your attempt to “put me in my place” is noted : unfortunately for you I am still here, arguing factually and using logic. you were the first to use a personal attack, therefore you lose. enjoy your day.

    • What about women who are anti-abortion and are afraid of voicing their opinions in public? Either way A-Rod, I think you got the wrong website to make generalizations about the political beliefs of the readers beyond the human right to arms.

      We have plenty of readers of all backgrounds and political beliefs. Perhaps refine your argument and put it on a religious/conservative news site?

    • .. and this is off-topic as sh!t … much as I may agree with you, it is a poor and selfish strategy to take someone else’s topic and draw parellels in order to grandstand about your pet topic.

      I certainly have no interest in coming here if it turns into a prolife/prochoice debate forum.

      so do us all a favor and don’t make it one.

      • Just so I have my facts straight – All men are created equal and have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness unless you are a woman or gay then you are a second class citizen. The Government needs to keep out of my business except I when want them to ban abortion and define marriage.

        • A-Rod, you’re shoehorning your arguments for abortion rights and gay marriage into a gun argument, and it mostly looks awkward. At best you riled up some of the more conservative readers and got them into their rants.

          Perhaps we can go with a more classical liberalist point of view: all people (men/women/other if you want to get into semantics) have the right to complete liberty to life and happiness. Now, in any society you will need a social contract so that the biggest or loudest person doesn’t take all your stuff and kill you. When drafting this social contract we must include defense and healthcare laws. At this point I have trouble caring about restricting whatever one wants to call marriage and however one wants to use their reproductive parts. But “aha!” I also have a gun and the human right to discreetly carry it around.

          The biggest thing that a lot of the conservatives are against is having their taxes go towards something they don’t like, but with a government as large as our, it’s just one more brick in the wall for them.

          But we need to get riled up about stuff, right? We have to do something, no? Carry on.

        • Ah, darlin’, bless your little heart. Get on the losing side of an issue and you get all emotional. And honey? If I wanted to “put you in your place” I would simply ignore you. Like your father. Boyfriend. Husband. Who ever he was.

    • Sounds exactly like what the disarmament crowd is doing to people who choose to exercize their fundemental right to self-defense….we’re treated like second class citizens and demonized for choosing to take responsibility for our own safety…the only difference is that we’re held FULLY accountable for exercising our rights….we don’t get the opportunity for a “do-over”…..oh..I guess another difference is we’re PROTECTING innocent lives….

  4. RF,
    Is that an openly displayed pistol on your belt?
    Must be before your move to Texas.
    I forget where you stand on Open v Concealed, strategically and tactically.

  5. Bravo. Especially the last paragraph. If only we could get back to a world where everyone accepted personal responsibility. But that’s too idealistic.

  6. And now GZ is being credited with recuing a family from an overturned vehicle after a wreck. Nobody is all good or all bad, with a few exceptions(Hitler, Stalin, Dahmer, etc.) we’re all just people. Maybe I’m too much a child of the 60’s but I’d hope that we could just find a way to live together without all the animosity.

    • That’s actually fairly easy to explain. Properly speaking, none of us are truly white or black, but varying shades of brown (that is, more or less melanin.)

      And as all of our ancestors in the beginning originated from Africa, it could be loosely argued that we’re all African.

      Beyond that, I wouldn’t read too much into things. Bottom line is we’re all Americans and all pro-gun, save the occasional troll.

  7. I am part Native American and Christian and my people were killed in large numbers too . that is why we all must support the Bill of Rights… and stop all the insane talk and stand for our God given rights no matter the cost…….

    • By the rules of the English language, anyone born in North America is a “Native American”.

      I am an American. Nothing that happened in Europe is my responsibility. Nothing that happens in the Middle East or Asia today is my responsibility.
      Nothing that happened to Africans has ever been my responsibility.

      I have harmed no one and feel no guilt for any thing I or my ancestors have done.
      If you put anything before being just an “American” you are a traitor and not fit to live in this nation founded and built by my ancestors.

      • Wow! That is one of the best love it or leave it tirades I’ve ever seen. Fortunately for the rest of us, we have a guaranteed freedom to do and say what we choose, as long as we don’t harm others. And that freedom includes saying things that other people don’t like like “African-” or “Asian-“.

        I don’t see anything bad about being aware of one’s ancestry, any more than being aware of one’s gender. It’s when people make value judgments based on ancestry, gender, age, etc., or expect others to do so, that it becomes harmful.

  8. Ok, completely off topic but i have to say it. On my computer the picture above of RF shows a blue shirt with some type of white stain on it. Dare I say it? I dare. Was RF modeling the Monica Lewinsky line of casual wear?

  9. Breaking! Kate Middelton just gave birth to a Book Contract,,,err a baby boy!
    Both Mother and Publisher are doing well.

    • He did have a city…Chicago: one of the most violent, corrupt cesspools in America. Obama was part of the Daley criminal gang political machine.

  10. Most interesting man in the world weighs in:

    “I’m not always Trayvon Martin,

    But when I am I avoid beating the crap out of people in concealed carry states.”

  11. You lost me at the whole “I am an African American and a Jew.” Did I miss something? Are you are a card carrying member of both the NRA and NAACP?

  12. “I am not Trayvon Martin. But I remember what it meant to be a teenager out at night, alone. I knew to walk cautiously. I knew to stay in the streetlights. I knew to look out for strangers. I knew to walk assertively yet avoid confrontation…”
    I grew up in a slum in New York City. I also knew all of these things; I still remember them. I am alive today because I knew. I know respect, not fear. Well said, Robert.

  13. One of the best things I’ve read on this blog, nicely done RF.

    It occurred to me that an important point has been lost in the circus of racism and anti-gun sentiment surrounding this incident. Not news to readers here, Zimmerman proved that concealed carry works. A normal citizen can protect himself with a concealed pistol even from a surprise attack. On the other hand I seriously doubt Martin would have attacked him if he saw (or knew) he was carrying.

    • Valid point that I hat not considered in connection with this case. Both points. For my own opinion I would rather carry concealed than open.

  14. YOU ARE A RACIST! Ha ha, just kidding….. The sad part is this will give millions of young black males and females (and not so young) fuel to feel like victims. Slavery is getting long in the tooth, so race baiters have to renew it, to make blacks feel like they are owed something as a special protect race…… Slavery has gone on for +4000 years of recorded history to all kind of people by all kind of people. Black on black atrocities goes back a long time.

    I don’t think George Z should have been on armed watch as am unpaid civilian and followed anyone. If there were two paid armed security guards or two cops, they would have subdued him, mace him, pepper sprayed Trayvon if he got violent. With that said we need to protect our *** and our immediate family, not strangers. We are NOT the P-0h-p-oh or supermen sheepdogs protecting anyone…. Yea some extraordinary circumstances…. odds are billion to one you will ever be there.

    I think people, black or white or green who are protesting for civil right prosecution look really ignorant. What about George Z’s civil rights? Trayvon called him a creepy cracka gay rapist…… and then beat him. Sounds like a hate crime.

    Stand your ground? Not an issue in this case, self defense. As far as Obama, I like him, but when ever he weighs in on issues like this to keep his black card he is RACIST. The idiot Professor with anger issues and Cop? BTW Obama is more white than black. Obama needs to not make racial commets like that. He loses my respect.

    When you say he looks like my son would is RACIST and irrelevant. No Mr. President, your white grandparents who raised you; I am sure they made sure at 17 you were not robbing, possessing stolen property, possessing tools for robbery, punching bus drivers, punching strangers and allegedly casing residences…..

  15. You are what you make your life to be.You can make excuses about why you are prejudiced against,how you had an unhappy childhood,but then again you can stand up and make yourself into a productive person,be a positive influence on those around you,and help others do the same.But the way society is now it’s ok to say poor me,I just didn’t get a chance.Be prepared and ready.Keep your powder dry.

  16. Who could doubt that Trayvon would have preferred driving the Choom-mobile, attending an excellent school, living with a pair of grandparents that both had good jobs, income, education, arriving later at lovely colleges in CA and NY with a standard American accent and tuition. I wonder how many times his mother or father drove him to the library each week, or discussed a book with him. I wonder what right a father has to go on tour touting the legacy of Trayvon, having previously abandoned him, having moved away. I’m not Trayvon, but if I had been, I’d have been a bit pissed when I saw where dad was living with his third woman but not with me. “Nice pool, dad. No street thugs, unless I invent one, cause every neighborhood has them, right dad? How come you didn’t tell me about Neighborhood Watch?” The way the parents have escaped censure is to me unfathomable. Sympathy? For Trayvon and his confusion, maybe. For the parents? Not a bit. They did not teach him to rise above, but rather to resent. The game of the PR firm and Sharpton was to get people to focus on imagining the parents’ loss, not their previous neglect, illusionists at work on the mind of the crowd.

    • We are all products of our environment, and genetic code. The legacy of Slavery is no one in his family line was ever taught how to be a man. So no one in his family line may ever be a man.

  17. what baloney, TMartin is dead and cannot verbally defend himself from your bs while zimmerman is alive and Zimmerman and his lawyers can. An all white jury freed him. A teen is murdered walking at 7pm and you justify this through your bs. Shame on you. You sound like Juror B37 who was doing bs and than trying to profit from this by writing a book.

  18. reading this post it looks like RACISTS are out in full force posting
    SHAME on OWNER OF THIS SITE FOR HAVING RACISTS POSTS.

  19. All that being said I am a gun owner, I believe in this country, I served in the military,
    I believe our Government is becoming/is a tyranny, no one will ever be President without being part of that Tyranny, because he will not be backed by the political machine. When they come for OUR guns, they will have no problem pulling them from what the blast left of our hands. I am Black and I have no respect for the Black, or White leaders of today. They should be telling People Stop F#@king you don’t even live in your own house you can’t afford a Dog how can you pay for a baby, If you can’t save the money for it (except for a house) you don’t deserve it and can’t afford it, Educate yourself it is the only way to the truth. If you don’t work you don’t deserve to eat (that is even in the Bible). The only reason I don’t have 50 guns is because I can’t afford it. I agree with everything said here I just think GZ should have gotten man Slaughter, and the comments made about slavery.

    • Well, Beholdr, I guess it’s just lucky for George Zimmerman that you weren’t on the jury, isn’t it? I, like you, am an American of African descent (my great grandmother was a slave), and having watched Zimmerman’s trial on TV I am convinced that the verdict the jury returned was the only one they could have reasonably returned on the basis of the evidence presented.

  20. For jbarr, who wrote, as part of his anti-abortion argument, “Tell that to the likes of Stephen Hawking or Hellen (sic) Keller.” and who seems to think that somehow the parents of said individuals knew before their births that they were going to be “defective” but nonetheless decided to carry the pregnancies to term. Well, Helen Keller was not born blind and deaf, but became so at age 19 months, after falling ill with what is believed to have been either scarlet fever or meningitis (in 1881, medical diagnostics were not what they are today). And Stephen Hawking was not diagnosed with ALS until he was 21 years old. So in neither case can it be claimed that, despite having prenatal knowledge that both these acclaimed personages would ultimately face daunting handicaps, their parents nonetheless chose not to terminate the pregnancies. In closing, let me say that I’m not sure what the back-and-forth about women’s reproductive choice has to do with the topics with which posters to TTAG generally concern themselves.

  21. That really has to be the most useless, senseless, illogical, and ironically (since you’re supposedly African American) racist drivel I ever read. So Trayvon was at fault. None of the things you cite him doing were criminal, nor proven, nor material to his murder. You gun nuts are all the same- idiots who create your own reality.

    • Nah, you’re right. Most of what RF wrote is immaterial to his death. Except the “started the fight” part. And the “beating someone else such that they feared for their life” part. Those parts are very material, and they are also the parts that make it not murder.

    • Simple fact is trayvon died of stupidity(which you appear to have a good case of yourself) and his parents are to blame, most directly his father. If you want to call the person that.

  22. Mr Farago? Can I call you Bob? I’ve really looked at the picture on this post, keeps popping up on my screen when I comment. Got to critique.

    I see a guy wearing a belt he does not usually wear and his shirt in a manner he does not usually wear it in. The point is to look exactly as you always do, just with a firearm attached.

  23. And mina? His point is that calling people who support the 2nd Amendment and the rest of the Constitution baby killers is rather ironic, since we are the people who want babies to live.

  24. Sorry, 2hotel9, but I am a supporter of the 2d Amendment who also supports a woman’s right to terminate a pregnancy, as long as the little parasite (fetus) infesting her body has not reached the stage of development that would allow it to survive, with appropriate support, deprived of the resources provided it in utero. I also believe that until we men can experience directly the increasingly uncomfortable process of pregnancy and the rigors of childbirth, we need to STFU when it comes to telling any woman that she MUST endure them both, whether she wants to or not.

    • “Sorry, 2hotel9, but I am a supporter of the 2d Amendment who also supports a woman’s right to terminate a pregnancy, as long as the little parasite (fetus) infesting her body has not reached the stage of development that would allow it to survive, with appropriate support, deprived of the resources provided it in utero.”

      So, we are on the same page. And I never said women should be forbidden abortions. I said they should PAY for them. Not me, uninvolved 3rd party. Letting your emotions get into the mix undermines your point.

      • 2hotel9, by quoting the unnamed blogger — “His point is that calling people who support the 2nd Amendment and the rest of the Constitution baby killers is rather ironic, since we are the people who want babies to live.” –, in an attempt to clarify for Mina what the unnamed blogger meant, you seemed to be suggesting that ALL 2d amendment supporters (“since we are the people who want babies to live”) are against a woman’s right to terminate a pregnancy, and I simply wanted to point out that that is by no means the case. Now, exactly from what element of my post do you infer that by letting my emotions get into the mix I undermined my point?

        • WHAT passion for killing babies, 2hotel9? I think you are reading into what I posted something that simply isn’t there. And I note that you seem unable to specify what in any of my posts compels the inference that letting my emotions get into the mix is undermining the point(s) I have made.

        • You are the one all “heated up” in defense of tax payer funded abortion on demand. I just keep pointing out that abortion is a medical procedure, and if you want one YOU should pay for it. Why such a problem with that?

        • In response to 2hotel9’s post: “You are the one all “heated up” in defense of tax payer funded abortion on demand. I just keep pointing out that abortion is a medical procedure, and if you want one YOU should pay for it. Why such a problem with that?”: On the contrary, 2hotel9, it seems that your passion for restricting women’s rights to control what goes on in their own bodies distorts your ability to process what you’re reading about the topic. I defy you to cite anything in any of my previous posts that suggests that I support tax-payer-supported abortions. But now I will indeed say something that not only suggests that I support them, but flat-out says it, and the reason for that is that I don’t think a woman’s right to control her body should be limited only to women who have the means to pay to exercise that right. So, by me, since, as you acknowledge, abortion is a medical procedure, funding for it should be allowed under public health provisions like Medicaid and Medicare, which are indeed tax-supported, and which fund other medical procedures.

        • Ah. As usual the passion for killing babies is surpassed by the passion for stealing other people’s money to fund you activities. How special.

  25. Zimmerman was not a law enforcement officer, and Trayvon was not committing a felony offense, yet Zimmerman stalked Trayvon under the cover of darkness.

    Under these circumstances, I too would feel threatened. My response would have been different, but Zimmerman was clearly acting out of line up to and until the point that Trayvon attacked him.

    Stand your ground laws should exist to protect people who are waylaid in the course of regular activities, and not to support people who have taken upon themselves special duties or who are undertaking criminal acts. Neighborhood watchmen and security guards should have a duty to retreat except on private property, or in pursuit of felons. And obviously a criminal should have no stand your ground protection if he invites upon himself assault or homicide in the course of a crime. At least in some states, stand your ground laws afford a criminal the right to defend himself in the course of burglarizing your home.

    • The Florida SYG law had nothing whatsoever to do with this incident, therefore your application to the George Zimmerman case is moot.

      Enforcing a duty to retreat simply invites Monday-morning quarterbacking of what “should have” happened, e.g. “Why didn’t you do this or that?”, often to a degree that would have been simply impossible in the place and time of the incident. As Oliver Wendell Holmes said, “Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife.” The Monday-morning quarterbacking allows for the unfair prosecution of folks involved in a self-defense shooting by overzealous prosecutors who are bucking for promotion or higher office. SYG laws were passed, in large part, to protect people involved in self-defense situations from that overzealous and often unwarranted prosecution.

      “At least in some states, stand your ground laws afford a criminal the right to defend himself in the course of burglarizing your home.”

      Got any examples of that? Because every state I’m aware of that currently has a SYG law also has a clause specifically excluding those who are engaged in illegal activity at the time of the incident. There may have been a few criminals years ago who tried to avail themselves of this right after SYG laws were passed and before those clauses were inserted, but those states cleaned that issue up almost immediately.

    • Wow, another leftard toddles in and spews their idiot-ology. Tell us, jesse, when I shoot you in the head for breaking into my house in the middle of the night to steal from my children exactly which laws are you breaking? Go ahead and lay it out in detail. Take your time, be specific, list all the laws you are breaking when I shoot you for breaking into my house in the middle of the night to rob me.

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