My eldest daughter’s first boyfriend was a deeply sarcastic, majorly morose teen. His mother and step-father left him to his own devices. Specifically, an X-Box. Call of Duty was his calling. Sports, not so much. The thought that boyfriend 1.0 was a danger to my daughter occurred to me on a regular basis. I had rules for contact: adult present at any house, check in when changing location, etc. Even so, I realized that D1’s safety was largely down to her. I won’t say I gave her pepper spray, but I will say that we had a few discussions about situational awareness and survival strategies. As for him, well, he knew I had a gun . . .

God knows what the gun grabbers will make of that one. No wait. Easy call. The “Daddy with a shotgun protecting his daughter’s honor” meme plays straight into their preconceived idea of gun owners as knuckle-dragging bullies. Thugs who rely on brute force rather than education, rational debate and cool-headed persuasion. (Like they do.)

Yes, well, let me clear about my firearms ownership relative to my daughter’s relationship with BFthankGodnotF. At no time did I threaten the young man with ballistic ventilation. I didn’t have “the speech” with him or greet the couple upon their return with a Benelli M2 casually cradled in my arms and a squinty-eyed look.

Truth be told, I didn’t have to.

D1’s B1 knew I was armed. My profession was no secret. If he’d been blind he would have missed the Glock on my hip. As he wasn’t, he didn’t. So no words needed to be spoken. Any notion B1 may have had that severe actions against my first born might have severe consequences was [almost] entirely of his own creation.

Really. I was as friendly as father can be to a boy dating his daughter of which he (the father) doesn’t approve, realizing that outright opposition is the least best option for ensuring the fastest possible dissolution of a regrettable relationship.

B1 eventually bombed. D1 moved on. But the concept of a “shotgun speech” from father to potential impregnator remains eternal. Here’s a comment on the subject from SpiderJohn in ’04 (h/t to Oleg Volk):

I had a few fathers try this “scare the lust clean out of ya” tactic, and for the most part it worked. The problem is that their daughters resented them for it, and worked hard to punish everyone in the situation by making bad decisions. I remember rather vividly walking out of a house with a young lady after one of these displays of “property rights” (“she is “MINE” not “yours”, get that mixed up and you will die” speech). The young lady asked if I had received “THE SPEECH”. I told her I had. She told me to ignore it. I did not.

My then future father in law treated me with respect from day one, and although I can’t say for sure, I think it had an effect. The respect he showed me, earned my respect for him. I did my best to treat his daughter with respect then, and I still do (I have to, she is a better shot than I am). I had a lot of growing up to do when we first met, but he never reminded me of it.

His daughter, my wife, displayed a great ability to take care of herself from the time we first met. It was one of many things I found, and still find attractive about her. He did his job well, and although he has long since passed away, I still respect him for raising a daughter that can think for herself.

How Walton voice-over narrator is that? Despite the paean to firearms-related protective paternalism, SpiderJohn had second thoughts about the gun threat thing re: his own projeny.

My daughter is 10. Some days are diamonds, and some days are stones. I love her with all my heart. She is a valued part of my life. I owe it to her to treat her with respect. To behave in any kind of threating manner with a young man planning to take her out is to openly question her decision making skills. I will not intimidate a young man with a firearm or a threat. If I truly have reservations regarding the date in question, the answer will be NO right then and there. The young man will be sent on his way, and then we will have a discussion regarding my concerns.

Sure, ’cause no means no with a teen. A non-fact that SpiderJohn’s probably learned by now. Anyway, point taken.

The oft-expressed adage that an armed society is a polite society doesn’t simply mean you tip your hat when you’re passing a neighbor walking down Main Street. Neighborliness is a pact with a punch. You play nice I play nice. You mess with me and mine I’ll mess with you and yours. Or, if you prefer, good fences make good neighbors but firearms make them great.

You may recognize the underlying dynamic as Mutually Assured Destruction. It’s the same principle that removed the threat of world war (think nuclear bombs). On the micro-level, MAD allows armed Americans to get on with things other than constantly checking their six. Or keeping their daughters under lock and key.

I can hear the antis now, their voices dripping with condescension and disgust. “What kind of sick person thinks they have to threaten a child (they always call teenagers children) with a gun? What kind of father doesn’t respect his own daughter’s freedom and dignity?

Antis can’t go beyond freedom and dignity. They refuse to understand/accept the idea that the threat of violence prevents violence. Not education. Not welfare. Not “social justice.” The threat of violence. You know; like the police that come running when you dial 911.

Only the antis don’t have to dial 911 (until they do). So they never see the cops exerting their force (except on TV). So they never appreciate the fact that their safety and liberty are created by force. In the same way that gunless homeowners who live in gun-loving states don’t know that their neighbors’ firearms are responsible for the low burglary rate.

For some reason, I feel obliged to point out that I don’t want to shoot anyone, ever. That I believe in the rule of law. That I’m not a vigilante; I don’t want to take the law into my own hands. But I also know the value of deterrence. And use it.

Why wouldn’t I?

I love my daughters. I protect my daughters. I protect my daughters with a gun. It is my right to do so. I consider it my duty to do so. I don’t mind other people—including young men who want to do what young men do—knowing it. In fact, I’m glad they do. What’s wrong with that?

 

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46 Responses to Random Thoughts About Guns and Daughters

  1. “Antis can’t go beyond freedom and dignity. They refuse to understand/accept the idea that the threat of violence prevents violence. Not education. Not welfare. Not ‘social justice.’ The threat of violence. You know; like the police that come running when you dial 911.”

    Oh HELL yes!

  2. The irony of gun control is so complete I’m surprised it’s not used as the example of irony in the dictionary. Controllers demand that your ability to defend yourself be limited by threat of, or actual, violence from the controllers.

  3. It will be PURELY coincidental that I happen to be cleaning guns whenever and every time my (8 y.o.) daughter’s future boyfriends come-a-callin’. 😀

    • As the father of boys, I have offered my services in this regard to some of my friends who have daughters, and no guns. No words will be spoken, but my buddy and I will just happen to be cleaning firearms when boy comes to pick up girl for first date. I feel it’s the karmic price I owe the world for inflicting on it boys who will likely be much like I was.

  4. The open knowledge of “Daddy’s” background and “hobbies” has worked so far for me and, hopefully, will continue to. The best test I have used so far is the intro and the handshake……….if he won’t come to my home and look me in the eye and introduce himself and shake my hand, then he has no business around my daughter.

    • I always liked my wife’s take on my daughter being picked up.

      “If you pull up and honk the horn, you had better be making a delivery. Cause you ain’t picking nothin up.”

      • I’d be a bit worried that boyfriend would become interested in seeing some of Dad’s ‘hobby’ items. The only people to whom I admit to having firearms are people I know and trust.

      • Re: “pull up and honk”

        Many of you may be aware that there was a show back in 2002 that ran for a few seasons called 8 Simple Rules, starring John Ritter. You may not know that the original title was “8 Simple Rules for Dating My Teenage Daughter.” The show premise was based on a list that had been circulating via email for at least 8 years before, because I first saw it in high school. I don’t know how long it existed before that, but here’s forum post listing them, dated November 2004. The original list had “10 Simple Rules.” The Wikipedia article above has the show’s dumbed down list.

        As far as I’m concerned, they still hold up. Even #10… just change “rice paddy near Hanoi” to “wadi near Baghdad” and “Agent Orange” to “PTSD.”

  5. “I can hear the antis now, their voices dripping with condescension and disgust. “What kind of sick person thinks they have to threaten a child (they always call teenagers children) with a gun? ”

    Most of the women that I know who have been raped were raped when they were 12-16 by “boys” who were 14-19 years old.

    • And how many of them were only with those guys because they were rebelling against their controlling parents by hanging out with “cool” and “dangerous” guys? That’s how it went down with every girl I knew that was raped, and I’m willing to bet it’s an overall trend.

  6. Amusingly enough, I’ve been on the other side of that shotgun-implied conversation. One of my favorite things to do was start talking guns with the armed father in question– that completely puts the protect-daughter train off the tracks in most instances, both from the not-just-another-horny-male-after-daughter perspective (was) and the not-easily-intimidated one (also true).

    In all such cases the daughter’s rebellious nature to such over-protectiveness was evident, and in some cases quite extreme, so a word to the wise: Be careful how far you take protectiveness, it can have some pretty significant indirect consequences.

    • I was on the other end of the situation as well.

      My girlfriends dad was trying to intimidate me by cleaning his pistols in the kitchen… The effect was lost when I had to show him how to take one of his newer ones apart. It got worse when he found out that I was teaching her how to shoot and that she wanted a pistol of her own.

      Now she enjoys shooting almost as much as me. Just don’t ask her to clean the guns afterward…

  7. The threat of violence to prevent violence might work in the short-run or in a particular situation, but overall it makes us all worse off.

    You love your daughters so much but you fail to see the connection between objectifying women with your frequent semi-porno posts and them. Take off the blinders man and clean up your blog of the tits and ass images. They harm all women including and especially your daughters since their dad is the author.

    • Although I completely disagree with Mikeb on his first point (I mean, take a look at history, not to mention the threat of violence preventing violence is literally the whole premise for a police force as well as a military), I have to wholeheartedly agree on his second.

      RF, it’s your blog, so do what you want, but I feel that it brings down the level of professionalism that I admire in every other place of your site.

      • Ben, that makes you one in about 10,000. Imagine out of all those daily readers, there must be a number of them who agree, but the peer pressure around here is such that not a single one other than yourself has the balls to say it.

        How pathetic.

        • Different Ben here.
          I’ll agree wholeheartedly with MikeyBnumbers’ second point. I am a firm believer that all the sexual overtones in our culture do nothing but cheapen what is meant to be a meaningful and intimate experience between a husband and wife. By treating other women that way, you are confirming to your daughters that their value is found, at least in part, by what men can get from them. Sad state our culture is in.

          I’ll also say that I think the best way to keep your daughters from being victimized by some sleazeball and dating a bunch of losers is to teach them to take care of themselves, be smart about the situations they place themselves in, and to show them how a man should treat a lady.
          If they hear ‘I love you’ and ‘you are beautiful’ from Daddy all the time, then when some sleazebag tries to woo her by saying those things, she can say ‘so what, I hear that from my dad all the time’. My daughter is 2 right now, I fully intend to take her out on dates, just the two of us, to show her how she should be treated. Hopefully if she comes across anything less than that she will drop him like a sack of potatoes.

          That said, one of my favorite gun posters is the one that says, “Guns don’t kill people, dads with pretty daughters do.”

          I’ll protect my family any way I have to.

  8. a much better tactic,in my experience, was the one my father used. he made a show of sharpening a knife when the boys came around my sisters. knives are so much more visceral and of course no male wants the implied threat to his junk to be anything more than implied.

    • Now that is a really good idea. In today’s modern society an intrusive government visit might follow by the local police and a state social worker to speak with the father about proper non-threatening behavior and to make sure everything is ok at home. Political Correctness and Feminist ideology are religious disorders.

  9. The thought that boyfriend 1.0 was a danger to my daughter occurred to me on a regular basis.

    So playing X-box makes you violent? Nice logic there. That’s exactly the same logic used by those who claim posessing a gun makes you violent.

    “What kind of sick person thinks they have to threaten a child (they always call teenagers children) with a gun? What kind of father doesn’t respect his own daughter’s freedom and dignity?”

    Except for the “child” part, I say the same thing and I own many guns. If you did even a halfassed job of parenting, your daughter isn’t even going to consider someone who’d physically hurt her. I think most dads of the “I’m going to use my gun to initimidate him and protect my property” menality are well aware of this – it’s about ego and making themelves feel tough. Though I suppose there could also be a perverse incestual side to it where they hope that by driving away other males through threat of violence she’ll decided to become romatically (or at least sexually) involved with her father…..kind of like that Dave Chappelle skit about the KKK – “I told that coon, boy, that there’s my sister. If anyone’s gonna be having sex with her, it gonna be ME!”

    I protect my daughters. I protect my daughters with a gun.

    See, it all depends on context. Are you carrying a gun to protect them while walking through a bad part of town at night? Or are you carrying it to “protect” them from making choices of their own free will that you disapprove of?

    I don’t mind other people—including young men who want to do what young men do—knowing it.

    Aaaaaaaand you just proved that it was the latter and being about controlling them because Allah forbid a sentient being makes their own decisions that have no impact on you. I wish you and all the other “My daughter is my property” people would get out of the 7th century or give up your guns, because you make all gun owners look bad as a result.

    Remember – just like gun control isn’t about guns, it’s about control – using a gun to threaten teens into behaving the way you want isn’t about their “safety”, it’s about control. No one with control issues, regardless of age, gender, or profession, should be carrying a gun or any other weapon.

    • “So playing X-box makes you violent? Nice logic there. That’s exactly the same logic used by those who claim posessing a gun makes you violent.”

      Just my opinion, but playing X-Box to the exclusion of most other activities doesn’t make a boy violent, but in my eyes, it makes him undesirable. When I was a teenager, I had school, homework and a part time job to pretty much fill my time. Add in the occassional afternoon spent fishing, bike riding, or playing a neighborhood game of baseball, basketball, or touch football filled in the blanks. I’m not sure that 40 to 60 hours a week playing “Call of Duty” is a healthy way for a teenage boy to mold his social skills, develope healthy attitudes towards others, or prepare himself for adulthood. My daughter is 25 and I still talk to her about situational awareness, and I still worry about the people she spends time with out of my presense. I hope that the stuff I have taught her will keep her away from stupid people doing stupid things, so far, so good.

      • Well the site isn’t posting comments right, so I lost what I originally wrote to you.

        Saying that X-box isn’t a valid hobby is foolish and that same “logic” can be applied to any hobby. I may despise football for being the more brainless and boring hobby in existence, but I wouldn’t threaten a potential boyfriend of my daughter merely because he likes football.

        Just because you’re too old to have every played one of them thur newfangled Playstation-box gizmos doesn’t make them evil, it just makes you a few decades out of touch.

    • What he was implying about the x-box was his parents were never parents to him…they let the x-box be the babysitter (as most lazy parents do). that alone does effect the character of children…most of those kids on x-box are cursing and having sexual conversations with the other players so in a way it is bad for the kid! If you are a parent that let’s their kid spend hours on end playing that junk then you need you head examined! my kids are not aloud to play that crap…in fact there are warning labels on all the games…you need to read what your kids are picking up and putting in your shopping cart…besides my kids are out going and play sports they don’t have time for that crap because their mom and dad actually value them and their time together with us!

      • Wow, just….wow. The amount of “I’m an old fart who hates technology” in this thread is astounding. My 94 year old grandfather would berate all of you for being so damn afraid of technology.

    • Lighten up, Francis.

      I have a 13 year-old daughter and a 10 year-old daughter. I have yet to face BF1 for either of them. I won’t threaten BF1-x, but then, I’m 6’5″ and I don’t need a pistol or rifle to be threatening. Generally, all I have to do is stand up, take their thin, teenaged hand in mine in greeting and a firm shake will pass all the message that I need to imply.

      Honestly, I like my daughters’ chances in a close-in HTH encounter. The older one is wickedly strong and fiercely protective of her personal space, the younger one is quick and both of them are mean when provoked. That being the case, my job as their father is to keep them out of HTH combat situations. The main way this is done is education, a great starting place is “The Gift of Fear” by Gavin DeBecker, a book that each of my girls will read before they leave my house. This is done also by controlling their environment, choosing where they attend school, church and other activities and shaping their world to mitigate what I perceive as risk.

      You can see this as “controlling” or “7th Century” behavior, I see it was “a father’s responsibility”. My job is to deliver them into adulthood with as many tools to confront the world and as much escape velocity in the form of values, experience and education as I can so that they become completely self-actualized adults capable of formal operational thinking and independent life. To be honest, I’m not overly interested in their input. They don’t know anything about anything. They don’t have the perspective or foresight to understand the consequences of what they “want” to do, and some of the consequences of what they may “want” to do are irrevocable and negative. I have more experience, more knowledge and better judgment than my children do. I don’t need their “help”, they need mine.

      It might improve your argument to share some of your personal experience in how you raised your own teenagers, in which case I would expect that your comments would be tempered by the humility borne of the sure and certain knowledge that every child is different and they all require different approaches that don’t fit well into blog comments. If this is all theoretical for you and you don’t actually have any children, then thanks for the ideological purity talk but you might want to dial your “wisdom” back a bit before further beclowning yourself.

      • The main way this is done is education, a great starting place is “The Gift of Fear” by Gavin DeBecker, a book that each of my girls will read before they leave my house. This is done also by controlling their environment, choosing where they attend school, church and other activities and shaping their world to mitigate what I perceive as risk.

        So, brainwashing. It’s not surprising that you want to mix fear-based brainwashing with thumping that Bible. It’s a common immaturity in religious people that they feel an overwhelming urge to control every aspect of their child’s personality and thoughts…it almost always leads to either a submissive, brainwashed zombie or a rather rebellious person who refuses to put up with bullshit anymore.

        To be honest, I’m not overly interested in their input.

        Hey, at least you’re being honest about viewing them as sub-human and not having any rights, especially the right to an opinion.

        I have more experience, more knowledge and better judgment than my children do. I don’t need their “help”, they need mine.

        Said like a true arrogant prick. If they’re old enough to be dating, they’re old enough to make their own damn decisions about pretty much everything. You knew that when you were their age but like so many once you hit those “milestones” with regards to age (18, 21, getting married, etc) your arrogance caused you to think that anyone younger than you is a moron and only YOU are possessed with the divine wisdom to know what choices to make.

        If this is all theoretical for you and you don’t actually have any children, then thanks for the ideological purity talk but you might want to dial your “wisdom” back a bit before further beclowning yourself.

        Right, because only self-righteous people who threw their futures away have any experience with raising kids. It’s not like others had parents (oh wait, they all did) or have siblings or friends with kids that they watched / helped raise. I’ve had more experience with people raised by parents like you than you can imagine, and as I pointed out earlier, it always leads to either a zombie who is incapable of thinking for themselves or someone who utterly hates their parents. If you actually loved your daughters as human beings, you wouldn’t want either of those outcomes. But you, like so many other Bible-thumpers, view them as property and only value them in the same way that you value your home or your car.

        • “who threw their futures away”, that’s a very telling remark totenglocke. i will not argue with you about raising kids. every parent has their own opinion. but i am assuming by that remark that you don’t have kids. i’m an older man now and i can tell you that i threw nothing away by having kids and now grandkids. my house is paid for, i’m debt free and i travel as much as i want. my brother chose to have no kids. his house is paid for, he’s debt free and he travels as much as he wants. but he’s lonely and i’m not. hopefully you’re young enough to rethink your choice and find a way to not wind up the lonely one.

        • Apparently, beclowning is something you enjoy. You’re frightfully good at it.

          I absolutely love my daughters as human beings, which is precisely why I am doing things the way I am doing them. Parents have been making decisions for children for thousands of years, it’s kind of been one of the fundaments of civilization up until the last couple of decades.

          Most of the execptionally fouled-up people I know are actually the children of divorce rather than the children of parents who looked out for them, allowed them to make mistakes in controlled environments and then discussed what went wrong and why. I don’t expect them to be particularly rebellious any more than I was, considering that I’m raising them pretty much the same way I was raised and I still enjoy a wonderful and supportive relationship with my parents. I talk to my kids and spend time with them and ask them questions and otherwise involve myself in their lives. I just don’t depend on their completely inexperienced and uninformed perspective for any significant decisions. It would be foolish to do otherwise.

          If you consider it “arrogant” for a 43 year-old with a couple of degrees including a doctorate to believe himself to be more knowledgeable and experienced than a teenager then I encourage you to talk to more teenagers. The vast majority of teenagers simply cannot have made the mistakes that I have had the opportunity to learn from, given the delta of our ages. The vast majority of teenagers know little of responsibility. Most of them cannot give you a decent definition of what “respect” means, I know when I was their age I was just beginning to figure it out. If they have difficulty defining these things, then how can they value them?

          They’re kids. They are inexperienced people with another 70+ years of life expectancy and I don’t feel like allowing my kids to pick up baggage they will carry that long because they tried to figure EVERYTHING out on their own all at once. They need to crawl, then walk, then run. I’m pretty happy with where they are right now, they’re probably ahead of where I was at the same age. That’s what happens when you parent intentionally.

    • So playing X-box makes you violent? Nice logic there. That’s exactly the same logic used by those who claim posessing a gun makes you violent

      Playing versus possessing, seems apples versus oranges.

      The The Center for Successful Parenting cites research showing that “excessive viewing of violent video during the years that young brains are developing is detrimental to the cognitive and emotional areas of the brain.”

  10. I’m waiting for someone to post a comment that a teenage suitor to their daughter got the wrong idea when dad was seen cleaning his guns by then bragging about his own bad-azz pistol and how he goes shooting with his boys after they’ve had a few beers.

  11. a relative by marriage who is a judge lamented that he didn’t care for the young man his daughter brought home, but since he was a judge, he couldn’t say what he wanted so I did. The young man was at a family BBQ and I approached him and expressed my concerns with him dating my cousin. He immediately got excited, told me he was a man, how dare I disrespect him, etc. I just smiled and said, “just know, I have an SUV, a trench digging shovel, rope, large flashlights, a tarp, and I know where all of the landfills are located around here. Have a good day.” Let’s just say he got the impression he needed and decide this was not the family to associate with.

    Another young man actually shoved my wife’s cousin (a different young lady). I suggested he needed to apologize and then lose her number. When he told me “f**k you”, I politely reminded him that the police (many who know my family) might find distribution weight in the trunk of his car late one night when they pull him over, and yes, while he didn’t have a record and would make bail eventually, he also had a purty mouth and wasn’t that muscular. I would hate to see him spend the weekend in county before he got in front of a judge. He got the message. Luckily, I have never had to show my sidearm or allude that I would use it.

    • Let’s just say he got the impression he needed and decide this was not the family to associate with.

      I agree with him – any asshole who’s going to threaten to murder you just for dating a girl isn’t a family you want to be around. I’d also have promptly reported you to the police as well if I were him.

      I politely reminded him that the police (many who know my family) might find distribution weight in the trunk of his car late one night when they pull him over, and yes, while he didn’t have a record and would make bail eventually, he also had a purty mouth and wasn’t that muscular.

      Yea, you and the dirty cops in your family should all be in jail.

      • Sometimes it’s hard getting through to some sub-literate, addled, gamer dude with his pants hanging down the middle of his crack, whose current greatest aspiration is scoring his next lid and bedding your daughter. Sometimes such a critter needs to be drawn into a more crystalline, less nebulous focus. Sometimes a young woman’s reputation needs to be defended and protected in no uncertain terms, so that said critter treads lightly and preferably in the opposite direction.

        Usually, a young woman that has been raised properly will not need such intervention by those about her that are older and wiser. Usually, but not always. What it is about the attraction to bad boys that some woman have is truly beyond my rational comprehension. Life is full of mysteries.

        Some young males are slow learners. Some are completely bereft of any moral or ethical underpinnings. Some have very limited conscientiousness. Some have absolutely no scene of what it is to be an honorable gentleman. Some need to be crushed like a bug. Some only understand brute force.

        By setting a clear frame of reference for the above archetypes, one is doing them an enormous favor in the hope that they may live long enough to grow out of their hormone fueled selfcenteredness and become respectable, honorable and productive men of value. If a plausible little threat can accomplish that goal, so much the better. Doesn’t it seem a relatively small price to pay lest the miscreant fall into something that would be of great regret to all concerned?

      • your an idiot…so you would be the better person by using that girl…probably only wanted to get into her pants and kick her to the side….I agree with the way they handled the situation and I probably would have told that boy to get off my property for miss handling my cousin or daughter….scum like that need to be taken care of in a “don’tmesswithmyfamily” kind of way…how is this ghettofied little punk going to be disrespectful at someone Else’s house?..wouldn’t be able to get a word out his butt would have be physically thrown to the street!

  12. The best dating advice I ever got was from my father. I remember that day we were getting lunch and discussing the girl I was currently intrested in. He said “Gary that’s someones sister and daughter think about how you want your sister to be treated.” And just a word of warning to you dads. Your daughters aren’t always the angels you think they are. Every girl I’ve had sex with its always been at her urging.

    • it may have been her urging it on but you do have a choice and just for that it does not make you the better man! you could have let her father and mother know her intentions and if you so were not wanting sex (yeah right!) then you could have said no and moved on! it goes both ways!

  13. I’ve always entertained the idea of having THE discussion with her date in my den/office. Arranged carefully on the shelf to my side a row of shrunken heads in mason jars. With a complement of blow guns displayed on the wall behind me. Everyone has to have a hobby!

  14. Some simple advice . . .

    The one you hate. Make them your best friend. The one you like, reject . . .

    Sons marry their mothers.

    Daughters marry and date to get back at their fathers.

    (If I new what I know going in, I would not of signed up for it.)

    • dammed if that ain’t the best and probably most truthful advice about the difference in boys and girls. if you like the boyfriend the girl won’t, i’ve seen that in action.

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