Incendiary Image of the Day: E-Commerce Edition by Dan Zimmerman | Aug 19, 2012 | 56 comments facebook twitter linkedin email Sure hope Google doesn’t find out about this. [h/t saysuncle.com] comments BrokeDad says: August 19, 2012 at 14:35 Sent off a email to Amazon about this. Nice find. I thought they only allowed accessory sales and not actual firearms. Waiting for a response .. Last thing I need is to compete on sales with Amazon. Reply jwm says: August 19, 2012 at 14:47 it’s lawfull commerce. it should be encouraged. i’m old enough to remember when guns could be mail ordered to your home with no background checks and no waiting period. if you sent a personal check they held shipment til it cleared. postal money orders got immediate response. Reply BrokeDad says: August 19, 2012 at 14:52 I hope your post is sarcasm and not actual belief. Reply jwm says: August 19, 2012 at 15:46 it’s a fact and not a belief. before the gca of 68 mail order of guns was legal and fairly routine. i knew people that got m1’s and m1 carbines from the cmp mailed home. dad bought shotguns from the sears catalog and you could but guns in just about every hardware store in town. most of the gun rags had adds from mail order houses in them. Reply Nathan says: August 20, 2012 at 08:43 You can actually still do this online on the cmp website, you just have to show membership in a shooting club. BrokeDad says: August 19, 2012 at 14:49 Amazon called me .. it’s being taken down and the associate account is being suspended as it violates their TOS. Great find Dan. Reply Matt in FL says: August 19, 2012 at 14:58 BrokeDad: You’re the guy that thinks all gun at gun shows should be under glass, right? “Last thing I need is to compete on sales with Amazon.” God forbid you have competition. I don’t necessarily think that Amazon selling guns mail-order would be an outstanding idea, but your smug self-satisfaction kind of irks me. Reply Aharon says: August 19, 2012 at 15:00 “I don’t necessarily think that Amazon selling guns mail-order would be an outstanding idea, but your smug self-satisfaction kind of irks me.” Same here. Reply Jim says: August 19, 2012 at 15:22 I’m sorry, but I don’t see any “smug self-satisfaction” here. I would never buy a gun (or most any other product) without seeing it in person. That means someone needs to spend money for a store, staff, and inventory. I’m getting off point, but I’ll research products online, check them out at Best Buy, etc. in person, then buy them from the cheaper online retailer without the overhead. I feel bad about that, but money is money. As for firearms, that’s a rare and significant purchase for me. I’m willing to pay a little more (not a lot more, as some retailers think they can ask), but a little more to support my local proprietor. As for ammo….. online always. Again, sorry. Reply Totenglocke says: August 19, 2012 at 16:43 I would never buy a gun (or most any other product) without seeing it in person. As long as they have a decent return policy if you dislike it and return it in new condition, what’s not to like? I also like your contradiction between wanting to guy a gun (a trivial purchase in comparison to ammo costs) to support the local FFL, but will only buy ammo online. Matt in FL says: August 19, 2012 at 16:47 Not to mention that in regards to supporting local business, the profit margins aren’t big on ammo, but they are generally absolutely razor thin on firearms. That’s why you don’t see much variation in prices. Jim says: August 19, 2012 at 23:59 Is it OK to reply to your own post? Anyways, it’s just more convenient for me to buy ammo from an online retailer, who has a huge selection of the various ammo I want (how much 9x18mm is generally stocked in a store?), have it delivered to my door and that’s it. I’m glad there are still independent gun stores around, but in the end there’s no competing with volume. As an aside, a gun dealer who also owns a range (preferably indoors) can do a good business. If I have to buy and shoot the ammo they sell, and there’s no where else to shoot, I’ll buy their ammo. I’m sorry (truly, as someone whose seen his grandfather’s local business whither and die), but if your business model is no longer sustainable, so be it. Your customer is a consumer, not a friend. They will buy crates of cheap ammo and one at your store (to keep you happy). The sad thing is, it’s not your fault. Brick and mortar stores just can’t stock the sort of inventory required. Also, the fact that some customers buy 1 or 2 boxes of ammo to “keep you happy” is a problem in and of itself. Writing all this makes me think there’s no hope for most stand alone gun stores in the end. So long as there are gun shows, I guess that’s OK. When a consumer (such as myself) can envision a world that’s OK completely without your business’ existence, that’s a bad thing. BUILD A RANGE AND INSIST ONLY STORE BOUGHT AMMO BE USED THERE!!!!! CarlosT says: August 19, 2012 at 17:46 Why not? As long as the rules are being followed, what’s the difference between them and any other online retailer? Reply BrokeDad says: August 19, 2012 at 15:01 I have my opinions .. you have yours .. we are entitled to each. Reply Totenglocke says: August 19, 2012 at 16:44 Yes, but your opinion runs contrary to the very capitalism that allowed you to start your business and continues to allow you to run it. It’s like journalists saying others shouldn’t have the right to express their views, despite the journalists job relying on the first amendment. Reply Rev.Paul T. McCain says: August 19, 2012 at 17:21 I have a local gun store, Dunn’s Sporting Goods, in Pevely, Missouri that has prices as low as Bud’s Gun Shop. They get my business, every time, what I have to pay in taxes is made up by what I safe in FFL transfer fees. If you, BrokeDad, can offer the same low prices, good for you. If not, tough luck. Welcome to a free market economy. Reply Aharon says: August 19, 2012 at 14:59 I did find some actual real ammo for guns listed on Amazon. Reply Rambeast says: August 19, 2012 at 15:02 Dropping a dime on an Amazon seller in fear of competition is a low blow. They should police theri sellers, not business owners trying to stifle competition. Competition is good for the consumer. It keeps prices resonable and sellers honest. Reply Totenglocke says: August 19, 2012 at 16:45 But BrokeDad doesn’t want to BE honest…it’s bad for his profit margins. Reply 07duallydog says: August 19, 2012 at 15:02 “last thing I need is to compete on sales with Amazon” , Really? What about Buds, Cheaper than dirt , Hyatts Guns, Gun Auction, Impact Guns, and the list could go on . Do they affect you? Reply Rambeast says: August 19, 2012 at 15:02 Dropping a dime on an Amazon seller in fear of competition is a low blow. They should police their sellers, not business owners trying to stifle competition. Competition is good for the consumer. It keeps prices resonable and sellers honest. Reply BrokeDad says: August 19, 2012 at 15:04 I have no problems with cheaperthandirt, gunsamerica, etc etc .. Amazon should not be selling guns IMHO. I think most of the TTAG posters agree with that position. I hope they will allow me in the future to post my own articles. Reply Rambeast says: August 19, 2012 at 15:06 If the seller is going through a FFL as required by law, there is absolutely no valid reason behind your claim. Reply Anon in CT says: August 20, 2012 at 14:32 It wasn’t really Amazon selling it anyway, just one an independent seller via Amazon. I can understand why BrokeDad does not want to compete with Amazon – nobody does, because they are huge and brutally efficient. Buds et al are just other firearms sellers who have been quite successful at e-commerce. When Amazon enters are new area, they bring billions of dollars worth of pre-existing infrastructure, and it is very hard to compete with that. Reply V.McCann says: August 19, 2012 at 15:07 Why? Reply Matt in FL says: August 19, 2012 at 15:08 “Amazon should not be selling guns IMHO.” BS, pure and simple. If they (or more likely, their third party sellers) abide by the same FFL rules as any other online dealer, why shouldn’t they? Full disclosure: I’ve never bought a gun from an online retailer. All my current firearms came from gun stores local to me, even though they may have cost me a little more than the online places. Once you factor in transfer fees and the potential hassle if there’s a problem, I haven’t been able to find a price that was “good enough” to take me out of the LGS. Reply CarlosT says: August 19, 2012 at 15:26 I also see no difference between a third party listing on Amazon and say, Bud’s Gun Shop. If the law is being followed in both cases, then what is there to complain about? Reply Totenglocke says: August 19, 2012 at 16:48 So it’s wrong for Amazon to sell guns like so many others do because Amazon has the resources to beat all of the others on selection and price? Please, tell me the name of your store so that I can make sure that my friends and I never give you a cent. I hope they will allow me in the future to post my own articles. I hope they don’t. I’m sure I’m not alone in saying that I’d seriously consider never reading this site and no longer recommending new gun owners read it as well if you were give more of a voice with your anti-capitalist views. Reply Matt in FL says: August 19, 2012 at 16:51 I thoroughly disagree with your second point. We don’t censor racists or anti-gunners, why should anti-capitalists (to use your term) be any different? They’re entitled to their opinions and to defend them with conviction. We’re entitled to disagree. Reply Totenglocke says: August 20, 2012 at 10:02 There’s a difference between banning them from commenting and allowing them to write idiotic articles that contribute nothing to the site (just like when they let MikeB write articles). Rev.Paul T. McCain says: August 19, 2012 at 17:25 And why shouldn’t Amazon be another online option for gun sales??? Your “logic” makes no sense, explain please. Reply Accur81 says: August 19, 2012 at 17:57 I think it would be great if Amazon sold guns. Reply jimmyzline says: August 20, 2012 at 06:18 A great victory will be achieved on that glorious day. With all due respect to LGS, Amazon offering legally acquired and sold firearms would be the greatest sign yet of public sentiment shifting positively to the viewpoint of the law abiding gun owner. Reply GS650G says: August 19, 2012 at 19:46 I fail to see why Amazon retailers should not sell on the site. If they follow the rules and ship to an FFL who does the paperwork what’s the problem? Oh, I get it, someone might get a better deal. BTW where did BrokeDad get this notion that a majority of TTAG posters agree with him? Reply jwm says: August 19, 2012 at 23:57 near as i can tell there’s no majority at ttag. every one has his opinion and doesn’t hold it back. it can be quite fun,entertaining, educateing and frustrating all in one. i’ve grown to like it. Reply John Fritz says: August 19, 2012 at 19:49 “… Amazon should not be selling guns IMHO. …” Why? Reply BrokeDad says: August 19, 2012 at 15:09 I will take the heat away from Dan on this one no problem. I will post no more comments or responses on this thread. If Amazon wishes to modify their TOS to allow such sales it’s fine with me. Reply Dan Zimmerman says: August 19, 2012 at 15:28 Heat away from me? I was posting this as an example of the normalization of gun sales. Like being able to buy a ‘modern sporting rifle’ at Walmart. In other words, it’s a good thing. Maybe I miss the distinction you draw between Amazon hawking guns and the other online sellers mentioned above. Guess I’m just slow, but I don’t see that there is one. Reply Totenglocke says: August 19, 2012 at 16:50 BrokeDad’s made plenty of anti-capitalist comments in previous threads and doesn’t believe that his store should face any competition. The distinction he makes between Amazon and Buds / CTD and such is that Amazon has the resources to provide a better selection than any other site and have lower prices as well….both of which would be bad for BrokeDad’s business. Reply Matt in FL says: August 19, 2012 at 15:39 BrokeDad: “I will post no more comments or responses on this thread.” It’s not necessary to take your ball and go home. You’re entitled to your opinions, and you’re entitled to defend them with conviction. I just haven’t seen any reasons other than “I don’t like it” and “It would interfere with my business.” Those are not invalid reasons, but many would think that they are insufficient reasons to prohibit online sales. “I hope they will allow me in the future to post my own articles.” Editorial decisions are solely the purview of RF. I’ve submitted some stuff that I thought was pretty good, (most recently a stellar IGOTD candidate) and he hasn’t posted it. I don’t know why, and it stung my feelings for a little bit, but it’s his site. Reply Aharon says: August 19, 2012 at 15:25 “Amazon should not be selling guns IMHO” There are traditional brick and mortar booksellers that believes Amazon should not be selling books. Reply BrokeDad says: August 19, 2012 at 15:35 NP .. I will leave this site .. please delete my account. Reply Matt in FL says: August 19, 2012 at 15:42 Oh, wow. Well, I guess that makes my reply above about not taking your ball and going home kind of moot, doesn’t it? Courage of your convictions and all that. Reply Don says: August 19, 2012 at 15:46 Good candidate for ” over reaction of the day”! Reply CarlosT says: August 19, 2012 at 15:51 Do we have “accounts” to delete? As far as I know, WordPress just puts a cookie on your computer so it remembers your name and email address. I don’t recalled creating an “account” as such. Reply jwm says: August 19, 2012 at 15:53 brokedad recently made a comment about doing away with the ffl excemption for pre 1898 guns. he owns a gun store and is trying to cut out as much competition as possible. i understand his motives. i don’t agree with them. i wish it was this easy to piss mikeybnumbers off enough to go away. Reply Michael B. says: August 19, 2012 at 20:03 Yeah, he did. He even admitted he’d never heard of a crime being committed with one after I pointed out how ridiculous his argument was. Gun store owners advocating stronger gun control to try to eliminate competition are two-faced, short-sighted fools and collaborators. Reply V.McCann says: August 19, 2012 at 16:11 What an irrational series of comments. Brokedad criticizes another poster’s comments then attempts to insulate his own posts from criticism by invoking his right to have an opinion, asks that his nonexistent account be deleted, and insists there is some meaningful distinction between Amazon and other online sellers that makes it wrong for Amazon to sell guns while refusing to explain the difference. Reply jkp says: August 19, 2012 at 17:06 I WOULDN’T buy a firearm from a seller listed on Amazon.com… ….but that’s not the same thing as saying that such transactions should be disallowed, if appropriate laws are followed. There’s not a lot of difference between Amazon and Bud’s, when it comes right down to it. Reply Lemming says: August 19, 2012 at 18:22 I tried to buy it, but got a crummy TV instead. Reply Dan Zimmerman says: August 19, 2012 at 20:19 FTW! Reply Snachnim says: August 19, 2012 at 22:35 LMAO good one!! Reply Snachnim says: August 19, 2012 at 22:41 Here is my experiences. First off, my LGS does not except any purchases from Bud’s, they are not alone in this. Cheaper than dirt doesn’t ship to CA on anything as far as I can tell. If you take their discounted price and put in the $65 transfer fee, plus the CA taxes on the purchase price, yes CA gets its taxes the price is basically the same as if I bought it direct from my LGS. Bottom line as a CA resident I save nothing. Unless they don’t have it in stock and someone else does then it makes sense since I can get it shipped right away. Reply Other Derek says: August 19, 2012 at 23:00 So did BrokeDad ever post the name of his shop? Would love to add it to my list of “places to avoid” right along with Sears, IHOP, Denny’s, etc. Reply Nathan says: August 20, 2012 at 09:27 I dropped an email to Amazon too. Not that I have any problem with guns being sold online, even on Amazon, but that the advertising company is not following the guidelines. Amazon is a business that can make it’s own policies. Not a big deal. On the issue of buying guns online, there are stores around my location that will do a transfer for $30. That being said, of the 3.5 I own (the 0.5 is an AR lower) the AR lower is the only one I bought online. For all my other purchases, I got them on sale at a LGS or gun show at a lower price than I could get from Buds or CTD or anywhere else online, even BEFORE factoring in shipping and transfer. I’m a bargain shopper, not an impulse buyer, so I will set on a purchase for months to get the best price. Reply james says: August 20, 2012 at 22:44 Aw shucks…I was hoping to use my amazon prime and get some free shipping on a couple of MP5s …Free shipping man! Never mind the 50 k pricetag, I wanna get meh guns with one click… Reply Write a Comment Cancel reply Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *Comment Name * Email * Website Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Notify me of new posts by email.