13 Shot at Memorial Party in Chicago in ‘Isolated Incident’

13 shot Chicago Shooting

Chicago police guard a crime scene in the 5700 block of S. May Street in Chicago after several people were shot there on Sunday, Dec. 22, 2019. (Terrence Antonio James/Chicago Tribune via AP)

From the Associated Press:

A shooting early Sunday at a house party held in honor of someone who was killed in April left 13 people wounded, four of them critically, Chicago police said.

The shooting stemmed from a dispute at the memorial party, Chief of Patrol Fred Waller said at an early morning news conference. He said shots were first fired just after 12:30 a.m.

The victims range in age from 16 to 48 and suffered “different and various gunshot wounds to their bodies.”

Two people were being questioned, Waller said. One of them was arrested with a weapon, he said, while the other was wounded. Waller said police recovered a revolver.

“It looked like they were just shooting randomly at people as they exited the party,” Waller said.

Waller did not provide details on the person who was being memorialized, including who the person was.

Waller described three different shooting scenes at the residential location in the city’s Englewood neighborhood, a predominantly low-income stretch of the city roughly 10 miles (16 kilometers) southwest of downtown that has high crime. The shooting started inside, then more shots were fired as people began spilling out of the house. Shots were also fired at a third place nearby, Waller said.

He described the shooting as an “isolated incident.”

The shooting comes as the city has been on the verge of closing out 2019 with sizable drops in shootings and homicides for the third straight year. Through roughly mid-December, about 475 people were killed, compared with 549 in 2018, which is a 14% drop. In 2016, the number of homicides was roughly 750, according to Chicago police data.

The declines happened citywide, including in historically high-crime areas. Still, Chicago still has more violent crime than New York and Los Angeles. Both cities had about 1,800 shooting victims combined, while Chicago has had about 2,500 this year, according to the Chicago Tribune.

Police have credited Chicago’s drop in crime to the use of technology used to predict where shootings might occur, while experts also credit anti-violence programs that offer jobs and gang conflict mediation.

comments

  1. But wait! Doesn’t Chicago have some of the toughest gun laws in the nation? How could this possibly happen? (Disregarding the fact that every area of the nation with tough [unconstitutional] gun control laws also has the highest crime rates.)

    1. avatar former water walker says:

      NO it DOESN’T have the toughest gun laws. No matter the blathering of Boch et al. It did have “tough” laws. Guess what? Homicides were far higher in the 1970’s,80’s & 90’s. We hear about everything now. This was a gang shooting…I avoid most of Chiraq!

      1. avatar Paul says:

        Chicago DOESN’T have tough gun laws? Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t the sheriff in Cook County knock on your door to confiscate legal weapons if you allow your permit to expire? Hmmmmmm – lemme find that story . . . https://freedomoutpost.com/illinois-cook-county-begins-gun-confiscation/ You’ll find the same story on at least a dozen other sites. (I hope the link gets posted, I’ve never asked about the rules here for link.)

        1. avatar former water walker says:

          You are wrong. And grossly misinformed…

        2. avatar MLee says:

          @ Paul
          Looking at that link, it clearly stated they were going after people who’s FOIC had been REVOKED!!!
          READ MY LIPS ***** REVOKED ***** not expired and who they believed still possessed firearms.

          “seize guns from thousands of people whose Firearm Owner’s Identification Cards have been revoked”

      2. Perhaps you should set your crack pipe down:

        Law Enforcement Today

        Chicago: We have some of the strictest gun laws. Also Chicago: So many people are being shot.
        https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/chicago-strictest-laws-violent-crime-rates/

        Go educate yourself before commenting further.

      3. avatar Thixotropic says:

        PROVE it, asscunt.

        Your imbecilic word is NOT enough.

    2. avatar Nukemjim says:

      Chicago no longer has “the strictest” gun laws. That has changed. Chicago has “shall issue” ccw, there is even “parking lot carry” for places that do not allow CCW. There is a FOID required and a AWB for Cook County. So not “constitution carry” but nowhere near as bad as NY, LA, Boston, or DC.

      1. avatar former water walker says:

        Yep! I live in Cook county. I lived in Chicago for 6 years. I’m edumcated goofball😏

      2. NUKEMJIM:

        Would suggest that you do some more studying:

        The eight most restrictive states include Hawaii, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Connecticut, Maryland, California, >>>>>Illinois<<<<<, and New York.

        The most populous cities in the US are: (1) NYC, (2) Los Angeles, (3) Chicago, (4) Houston, (5) Phoenix, (6) Philadelphia, (7) San Antonio, (8) Sand Diego, (9) Dallas, and (10) San Jose.

        But of those only NYC, Los Angeles, >>>>>Chicago<<<<< and Philadelphia have city ordinances (ordinances are quasi laws) which impose more restrictions on 2nd Amendment rights than is common across the U.S.

        1. avatar former water walker says:

          Shall Issue concealed carry in Chicago means you’re full of shite. I’ll bet you thought you weren’t a troll😄

        2. No, more like it means that you are totally ignorant of the actual facts.

        3. avatar MarkPA says:

          Illinois’ Shall-Issue law puts them in a better category than all the Won’t-Issue states.

          Other than this fact, Illinois is a very hostile state for gun rights.

          The most severe factor is the control the FOID gives government. If, for any reason, your FOID is cancelled on a mental-health pretext you are permanently and irretrievably disabled of your 2A rights.

          The reason might be a mere clerical error; confusion over identity; misdiagnosis. Whatever the pretext for pulling your FOID, now you need a qualified psychiatrist to certify you as mentally fit to possess guns. But there is not a single qualified psychiatrist who will make an appointment for you to certify you. Not one in the state; not one in the country. NONE.

          Perfect system for – one-by-one – reducing the number of outstanding legal gun owners to just the few needed to protect the persons and property of men-of-means. First, make it impossible to recover your 2A rights after a mental-health cloud has been used as the pretext to dis-able you. Next, make it impossible to become pre-certified as mentally qualified (if you are not a bodyguard to the rich & famous).

        4. Any type of permit whatsoever turns a right into a privilege. I don’t need government permission to exercise my inalienable natural right to self-defense. And that against any enemy; whether they be foreign or domestic, or in or out of government. And any government employee that declares differently is lying.

        5. avatar Chris T in KY says:

          fyi
          You can get a permit in chiraq if you are the correct skin color. It also helps if you have $$$$.

          “Wealthier whites get 90 percent of licenses in Illinois”
          https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/sep/29/chicago-concealed-carry-gun-permit-law-disarms-poo/

          When everyone can get a gun without a permit in chiraq regardless of what they look like only then will they become Chicago. Until then keep calling the city Chiraq.

        6. Chris T in KY –

          “fyi

          “You can get a permit in chiraq if you are the correct skin color. It also helps if you have $$$$.

          “Wealthier whites get 90 percent of licenses in Illinois”

          “When everyone can get a gun without a permit in chiraq regardless of what they look like only then will they become Chicago. Until then keep calling the city Chiraq.”

          Agreed, and no doubt!

    3. avatar moreadventuresonotherplanets says:

      Your about as ignorant as they come. You must have sat next to Trump in school. Anyone with half a brain knows that States with lax gun lows funnel tens of thousands of guns into places with tough gun laws like Chicago.

      The Chicago study proved most crime was done with guns that were at least 11 years old and the guns were not vetted letting anyone buy a guy that wanted one.

      Now Stable Genius what part of this do you not understand.

      1. avatar pwrserge says:

        Hey sub-human commie vermin. Explain why those “lax” states don’t have the same problems with “gun violence”. Maybe you commie scumbags should quit letting these ganbanging vermin back out onto the streets? Here’s an idea… Public executions worked in the 1800s, maybe seeing a few gangbangers swinging from the gallows in the public square would have more of an impact than your infringements on the rights of innocent people? Oh, wait, you commies WANT these criminals out on the street. If they weren’t you’d have already been strung up with piano wire for being corrupt pieces of shit.

        1. avatar moreadventuresonotherplanets says:

          “””””””””””””””””””””””””””””Hey sub-human commie vermin. Explain why those “lax” states don’t have the same problems with “gun violence”. “”””””””””””””””””

          Stable Genius they have the same problems because their lack of laws are the problem. Now what part of this do you not understand?

          No law demanding a mental test before a permit to purchase is issued.

          No vetting of second hand guns.

          No safe storage laws.

          Is this getting to complicated for your 6th grade level education?

        2. avatar pwrserge says:

          Commie, I have more degrees than you have teeth. You have failed to explain why states with “lax gun laws” have a fraction of the homicide rate of Chiraq. Here’s an idea… Those states don’t let gangbanging vermin back out onto the streets, they fry them.

        3. avatar moreadventuresonotherplanets says:

          Wrong Power Brain Robert Reich was referring to over 30 studies that all proved that more guns resulted in more crime

          And by the way no one that had even on degree in higher education could be as prejudiced, as tribalistic , and as ignorant as you are.

          The only part of what you ever said I believe is that yes you may indeed speak more than one language but that is common place in Europe it does not make you special so stop trying to strut around with your penis up in the air.

        4. avatar MarkPA says:

          “. . . you commies WANT these criminals out on the street.”

          There is a plausible reason why this assertion ought to be taken seriously.

          A government out to tyrannize its people must do so by either of 3 means:
          1. “red coats” – i.e., its formal military forces;
          2. “blue coats” – i.e., its paramilitary formal police forces; or,
          3. “brown shirts” – i.e., its paramilitary NOT-formal forces.

          The unawakened masses will object to being tyronized by red coats. That has long gone out of fashion for tyrannical governments. The blue coats are now the preferred vehicle; but even so, the voters can express their dissatisfaction politically.

          While a government bent on tyranny maintains a pool of ostensible criminals to prey upon the people it holds a tool that is useful in two ways. First, the law-abiding innocents are eager to pay taxes to maintain a force of blue coats to keep ordinary crime in check. Second, the brown shirts can be invoked to attack any political opposition without repercussions on the government. Government officials will deny any connection with the brown shirts and denounce their lawless behavior.

          At this stage of political devolution it becomes difficult to sort-out the acts of legitimate government from the acts of a government bent on tyrannizing its population. Who is really controlling these brown shirts? Are they lawless criminals? Or, are they the paid agents of The Party? Hard to tell.

        5. avatar pwrserge says:

          Sorry commie, your left wing brainwashing doesn’t work on people who have very good reason to want every commie on the planet to die screaming.

          Again, might want to learn English. It’s not hard, really.

        6. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Yo, moron! My government handed me my own full auto SBR and ammo without any shrink needing to anal-yze me, are you planning to pay for all this anal-ysis, or is it just another useless and deliberate obstacle to firearm ownership? Where has it ever helped anything?

      2. avatar No one of consequence says:

        Pretty rich opening from someone who apparently doesn’t understand grammar and punctuation.

      3. MOREADVENTURESONOTHERPLANETS

        Hey bonehead, obviously it’s time for another history lesson on our intended system of government:

        “the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”

        Now why is it that every city/state with strict [unconstitutional] gun control laws has higher crime rates than those that do not have as strict [unconstitutional] gun control laws?

        1. avatar moreadventuresonotherplanets says:

          Again not true at all Robert Reich recently posted the results of studies that show that areas that have more guns have more crime.

        2. moreadventuresonotherplanets

          The F.B.I. crime stats disagree, cowardly lying traitor.

        3. avatar pwrserge says:

          RObert Reich, whomever the hell that is, is full of shit. There is no correlation between gun ownership rate and criminal activity. That piece of left wing propaganda was debunked decades ago. There is, however, a strong correlation between violent crime and the Demokkkommie party.

        4. More guns = less crime. And that is an indisputable FACT. The only thing that stops criminals with guns is armed citizens.

      4. avatar GluteusMaximus says:

        Why does the violent crime not exist in those lax gun states? You and I both know the answer. You just don’t like it

        1. avatar Dude says:

          Because all of their guns are funneled to one specific part of Illinois. sarc

      5. avatar Southern Cross says:

        Hey Vlad, is it still rural Hillbillies shooting people-of-color in urban areas, or are the rural Hillbillies leaving their guns behind in the urban areas for children to find?

        Pwrserge, don’t you know Vlad has several degrees and a diverse share portfolio, and this makes him better than us illiterate inbred gun owners.

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          I could probably buy and sell his entire net worth out of my monthly cigar budget.

      6. moreadventuresonotherplanets

        Not quite traitor. As I understand a written Constitution just fine. And I’m not the effeminate coward crying and screaming for government servants to violate the SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND. So you can pound your ignorant commentary up where the sun don’t shine, treasonous p.o.s.

      7. moreadventuresonotherplanets

        “the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”

        And no amount of your cowardly and treasonous vain babbling will ever alter that fact, traitor. Don’t like it, coward? Then get the hell out of our country.

      1. Wow! Was not aware of that site, thanks!

  2. avatar Sam I Am says:

    From what I read in the MSM, at least the right people are being shot, as in not good people congregating in good places. Therefore, this event will not encourage the gun grabbers to address the greater threat to citizens, and continue to focus on preventing law abiding people from owning a gun that might be used in a good place, where only good people congregate.

    For those in Rio Linda, people who live in sketchy neighborhoods just have to accept the bloodshed that comes with those neighborhoods; nothing to be done about it.

    1. avatar moreadventuresonotherplanets says:

      “”””””””””””””””From what I read in the MSM, at least the right people are being shot, as in not good people congregating in good places.”””””””””””””””

      Congratulations we award you with the Racist Award of the Year. You know no one at that party and condemn everyone that was there. Even the people who were gunned down running out the door for their lives.

      1. avatar pwrserge says:

        Sorry commie, “ganbanging lowlife and associates” is not a race.

        1. avatar moreadventuresonotherplanets says:

          And neither are you you just proved it. If anyone needs having his guns confiscated and given a mental test its you. Lets hope Big Brother and Law Enforcement is keeping an eye on you. They will be coming for you soon when your Red Flag law gets passed in your state. I am not being facetious in the least. Your posts prove you are a very dangerous person.

        2. avatar pwrserge says:

          Yeah… good luck with that. Somehow I don’t see all my drinking buddies in the local PD who agree with me 100% doing anything other than laughing in your face.

        3. avatar OBOB says:

          LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          “Sorry commie, “ganbanging lowlife and associates” is not a race.”

        4. avatar EndDangerEd says:

          moreadventuresonotherplanets…. Must be a TROLL. They’re the ONLY ONES that automatically pull out the “race” card without ANY knowledge. Just as dumb as Tlaib…. Those “White supremecists” that shot up the store in Jersey WERE BLACK….. Stop being an ASS online…. it’s UNbecoming. BTW… ALL the major mass killers in World History DISARMED their people before they murdered them… Stalin-20 million, Hitler-19 million, china over 60 million, Pol Pot over 1 million…. Learn some history… stop playing the FOOL!

      2. moreadventuresonotherplanets

        Did your parents have any children that lived?

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          Well, we do have this coathanger dodging champion here.

        2. avatar Southern Cross says:

          Does he have a thoroughbred lineage?

        3. avatar pwrserge says:

          Well, I’m pretty sure his mom was into barnyard animals, but I don’t think biology works that way.

      3. avatar Sam I Am says:

        PO. You still cannot read.

    2. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Local media reporting on that “memorial” shooting in chitcago, says the memorial was a gathering to remember a man shot and killed during an attempted carjacking. Reads like he was the would-be carjacker and the gathered were mourning his loss?! Definitely a whole bunch of people who needed shooting.

      1. avatar Sam I Am says:

        “Definitely a whole bunch of people who needed shooting.”

        Am not qualified to comment on that.

        Point is gun-grabber nation has no interest in dealing with real crime, real criminals, real people in not nice neighborhoods being subjected to weekly slaughter. Gun-grabber nation is only interested in imaginary protection for people like themselves. Notice how the anti-gun mafia ignores pro-gun minority organizations.

  3. avatar George WashingtonGl says:

    Yes…. anyone recieving government housing assistance or food stamps, should be barred from owning firearms…..
    Also, including anyone who is not a U.S. citizen…..
    At that point, shootings would almost be non existent…

    1. avatar KenW says:

      So you would be OK with them taking the guns of a recently laid off worker who needed food stamps to tide him over or a vet who needed assistance? Remember no all who need help are “others”.

    2. avatar moreadventuresonotherplanets says:

      To the guy who desecrates George Washington’s name. If he were alive I am sure he would not be using his ax to chop down the cherry tree he would be using it on your head.

      “””””””””””””””””””
      Yes…. anyone recieving government housing assistance or food stamps, should be barred from owning firearms…..
      Also, including anyone who is not a U.S. citizen…..
      At that point, shootings would almost be non existent…””””””””””””””

      Good to hear again from our local Racist Nazi. Facts are you idiot is that immigrants who are illegal commit way less crimes than U.S. citizens do. Its called self preservation so they are not deported but hey what would a guy like you know when your mind is poisoned by tribalism, racism and hate. You win the title of “The Ugly American”. You would be the first to torch the inscription on the Statue of Liberty because it gets into your craw and if it choked you I would not give you a glass of water.

      1. avatar pwrserge says:

        Um… bullshit. Per capita illegals commit ten times more crimes than the legal population. Every single one of them needs to be deported via catapult.

        1. avatar moreadventuresonotherplanets says:

          Look you Moron look it up sometime. Your post is not only bullshit its making a fool of you as well. Google it sometime Stable Genius. Your racism and prejudices make logical thought or consideration of the proven studies an impossibility.

          Give up your mental illness makes this subject out of your league. As if everything else was not also.

        2. avatar pwrserge says:

          Every single illegal has committed a crime. By definition. Their criminality rate is 100%. Also, it is impossible to be racist against illegals, by definition. Immigration status is not a race.

          Learn English commie vermin. It’s not a difficult language. It’s my fourth and I have a better command of it than you and your commie crackhead buddies.

        3. avatar Dude says:

          “Look you Moron look it up sometime.”

          SCAAP Data Suggest Illegal Aliens Commit Crime at a Much Higher Rate Than Citizens and Lawful Immigrants
          https://www.fairus.org/issue/illegal-immigration/scaap-data-suggest-illegal-aliens-commit-crime-much-higher-rate-citizens

          Undocumented immigrants are at least 142% more likely to be convicted of a crime than other Arizonans. They also tend to commit more serious crimes and serve 10.5% longer sentences, more likely to be classified as dangerous, and 45% more likely to be gang members than U.S. citizens. Yet, there are several reasons that these numbers are likely to underestimate the share of crime committed by undocumented immigrants.
          https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3099992

          The U.S. population is around 328 million. It’s estimated that about 11 million — or one in 30 — are illegal immigrants. Yet criminal aliens account for more than one in five federal prison inmates. Even assuming a pretty radical margin of error for the sake of argument, that would still mean illegal immigrants are drastically over-represented among the criminal population.
          https://thehill.com/opinion/immigration/407312-one-in-five-us-prison-inmates-is-a-criminal-alien

          You’ve probably heard the talking point that immigrants commit less crime than citizens. This may be true. However, illegal aliens and legal immigrants are two different groups of people. The propagandists often conflate the two in order to push their narrative. It’s always important to take off your partisan hat and look at the facts.

        4. avatar moreadventuresonotherplanets says:

          TO DUDE. YOUR WRONG AND HERE IS PROOF

          the Trump administration on Wednesday was all about crime committed by undocumented immigrants.

          President Donald Trump met at the White House with the victims of crimes perpetrated by undocumented immigrants, the Department of Homeland Security championed increased arrests, and the Department of Justice called for the passage of a law that would up the penalties for undocumented immigrants who attempt to reenter the country.

          The day’s events meshed well with Trump’s campaign rhetoric that illegal immigration was a public safety issue, with criminals “roaming free to threaten peaceful citizens,” as he put it in one campaign speech.

          There’s one catch: There’s no evidence that undocumented immigrants commit more crime.

          Trump Immigration Policies Face First Legislative Hurdle
          JUNE 28, 201701:15
          Trump has often drawn a connection between illegal immigration and violent crime. A handout provided by the White House on Wednesday quoted candidate Trump: “Countless innocent American lives have been stolen because our politicians have failed in their duty to secure our borders and enforce our laws.”

          Politifact noted last year that there’s no national database of crimes committed by undocumented immigrants or study that tracked the crimes they have committed. “The challenge in finding concrete numbers is due to a shortfall of data,” Politifact said.

          The number of undocumented immigrants in the U.S. tripled between the 1990s and 2013, while violent crime declined 48% and property crime fell 41% over that period.

          What’s more, a slew of studies have found that immigrants as a whole — both legal and undocumented — commit less crime than native-born Americans.

          Recommended

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          One study in Criminology found that “violent crime rates tended to decrease as metropolitan areas experienced gains in their concentration of immigrants.” A 2007 report by a pro-immigrant nonprofit, American Immigration Council, concluded that “for every ethnic group without exception, incarceration rates among young men are lowest for immigrants, even those who are the least educated.”

          On the campaign trail, Trump, as quoted in the White House fact sheet, also vowed to “end the sanctuary cities that have resulted in so many needless deaths.”

          Trump Seeks to Change Immigration Rules
          JUNE 21, 201703:09
          Yet sanctuary cities appear to be safer than non-sanctuary cities, according to an University of California analysis of federal data published by a liberal think tank, and another analysis by political scientists found those cities do not see a surge in crime.

          “Did I say aliens commit more crimes than U.S. citizens? I didn’t say that,” Thomas Homan, acting director of the Immigration and Customs Enforcement, told reporters on Wednesday. “The purpose is to dispel notion if you enter illegally, you should be comfortable.”

          In a handouts given to reporters Wednesday, the White House offered a slew of statistics about enforcement. Many were accurate; a handful were false or misleading.

          One fact sheet boasted that ICE had removed 2,798 “criminal gang members” in fiscal year 2017 — a period that includes nearly four months of President Barack Obama’s term — while a second hand out touted 1,378 arrests from an anti-gang operation during this calendar year (20 days of which where under Obama’s leadership.)

          What’s more, experts told NBC News that the kind of immigration enforcement the Trump administration championed Wednesday is likely to drive overall crime numbers up, as communities shut out authorities, declining to report crime or cooperate with police for fear of being deported.

          Image: Jane C. Timm
          Jane C. Timm
          Jane C. Timm is a political reporter for NBC News, fact checking elections and covering voting rights.

        5. avatar Dude says:

          “TO DUDE. YOUR WRONG AND HERE IS PROOF”

          Could you point me to the proof. You didn’t dispute a single fact I gave you. Let’s take a look at your copy and paste propaganda articles one by one.

          “There’s one catch: There’s no evidence that undocumented immigrants commit more crime.”
          So the evidence I presented is wrong because there’s no evidence? That isn’t a valid argument. That’s called denying reality.

          “Politifact noted last year that there’s no national database of crimes committed by undocumented immigrants or study that tracked the crimes they have committed. “The challenge in finding concrete numbers is due to a shortfall of data,” Politifact said.”
          So again, you’re saying I’m wrong because the evidence just doesn’t exist according to Politifact. How does this dispute the evidence I provided? Again, denying reality.

          “The number of undocumented immigrants in the U.S. tripled between the 1990s and 2013, while violent crime declined 48% and property crime fell 41% over that period.”
          We know violent crime across the country declined during this period. How does this prove that more crimes aren’t being committed by illegal aliens? Of course it doesn’t. The above statement could still be true with the same percentage committed by illegals.

          “What’s more, a slew of studies have found that immigrants as a whole — both legal and undocumented — commit less crime than native-born Americans.”
          So list these studies. The ones about legal immigrants are irrelevant to the conversation so why is that even mentioned?

          “One study in Criminology found that “violent crime rates tended to decrease as metropolitan areas experienced gains in their concentration of immigrants.” A 2007 report by a pro-immigrant nonprofit, American Immigration Council, concluded that “for every ethnic group without exception, incarceration rates among young men are lowest for immigrants, even those who are the least educated.”
          Remember how we were talking about ILLEGAL immigrants? Where is that mentioned above? Of course, it isn’t. This is called conflation (and propaganda).

          “Yet sanctuary cities appear to be safer than non-sanctuary cities, according to an University of California analysis of federal data published by a liberal think tank, and another analysis by political scientists found those cities do not see a surge in crime.”
          This is an analysis by a liberal think tank which is biased by definition. Give me the raw data numbers like I gave you. Otherwise, you’re just saying “trust me” which is not refuting anything, nor providing any information.

          “What’s more, experts told NBC News that the kind of immigration enforcement the Trump administration championed Wednesday is likely to drive overall crime numbers up, as communities shut out authorities, declining to report crime or cooperate with police for fear of being deported.”
          Again, this is an opinion. You don’t refute data with opinions.

        6. avatar Dude says:

          I thought about this one (below), and I think I know why they framed it as “immigrants as a whole — both legal and undocumented” They are probably adding it all together. Since LEGAL immigrants commit less crime, this averages out the crime committed by ILLEGAL immigrants (combined with legal) to be lower than native born. Now why does that matter when discussing crime by ILLEGAL immigrants? The answer is it doesn’t. It’s called propaganda to push a narrative, just like I was talking about in my first post.

          “What’s more, a slew of studies have found that immigrants as a whole — both legal and undocumented — commit less crime than native-born Americans.”

        7. avatar Dude says:

          Interested in hearing your response Moreadventures. As I’ve shown, you’ve been lied to. Do you only believe what reinforces your personal prejudices or are you able to objectively look at the facts?

        8. avatar moreadventuresonotherplanets says:

          To Dude

          “”””””””””””””””””””””””“What’s more, a slew of studies have found that immigrants as a whole — both legal and undocumented — commit less crime than native-born Americans.”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””

          Get off the drugs your own statement proved your wrong. Undocumented is another term for illegal.

          “”””””””””””””””””Again, this is an opinion. You don’t refute data with opinions.””””””””””””””””

          And your opinions and links to opinions didn’t either.

        9. avatar Dude says:

          “What’s more, a slew of studies have found that immigrants as a whole — both legal and undocumented — commit less crime than native-born Americans.”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””

          Get off the drugs your own statement proved your wrong. Undocumented is another term for illegal.”

          Did you bother reading the post? They are adding them together. They are not comparing undocumented alone to native born. They are adding in legal immigrants to tilt it. Do you really not comprehend that?

          “And your opinions and links to opinions didn’t either.”

          I didn’t give opinions. I listed actual data with links showing where I got it. You still aren’t refuting anything I posted. You’re covering your ears and yelling so you won’t see the truth. You are the definition of willful ignorance.

        10. avatar Dude says:

          Let me spell it out for you in case you’re being serious about not understanding this.

          The topic we are debating is ILLEGAL immigrant crime vs natural born crime.

          You listed an article adding ILLEGAL (undocumented) immigrant crime + LEGAL immigrant crime vs. natural born crime. Do you see the difference now? I’ll list the quote below for your reference.

          The quote you provided: “…a slew of studies have found that immigrants AS A WHOLE — BOTH legal and undocumented — commit less crime than native-born Americans.” (emphasis mine)

          That’s all well and good. Now show me the studies of ONLY undocumented immigrants vs. natural born citizens because, you know, that’s what we’re debating! Get it?

        11. avatar moreadventuresonotherplanets says:

          Hey DUDE HERE IS MORE PROOF YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT AND ITS FROM THE MOST RESPECTED INSTITUTION IN THE U.S. NOT SOME RIGHT WING PROPAGANDA ORGANIZATION

          https://www.cato.org/blog/another-confusing-federal-report-immigrant-incarceration

          Another Confusing Federal Report on Immigrant Incarceration
          By Alex Nowrasteh
          TwitterLinkedInRedditFacebook
          The Departments of Justice and Homeland Security (DOJ/DHS) will be publishing a quarterly report on immigrant incarceration in federal prisons because of an Executive Order issued by President Trump last year. The most recent report found that 20 percent of all inmates in federal prison are foreign-born and about 93 percent of them are likely illegal immigrants. Since immigrants are only about 13.5 percent of the population and illegal immigrants are only about a quarter of all immigrants, many are misreading it and coming away with the impression that foreign-born people are more crime-prone than natives.

          That is simply not true.

          This new DOJ/DHS report only includes those incarcerated in federal prisons, which is not a representative sample of all incarcerated persons in the United States. Federal prisons include a higher percentage of foreign-born prisoners than state and local correctional facilities because violations of immigration and smuggling laws are federal offenses and violators of those laws are incarcerated in federal prisons.

          The report itself almost admits as much with this important disclaimer:
          This report does not include data on the alien populations in state prisons and local jails because state and local facilities do not routinely provide DHS or DOJ with comprehensive information about their inmates and detainees—which account for approximately 90 percent of the total U.S. incarcerated population.
          There is much better information on immigrant incarcerations in other formats. My co-author Michelangelo Landgrave and I recently released a Cato brief that estimates incarceration rates by immigration status in federal, state, and local correctional facilities. We used a standard statistical technique known as the residual method to identify illegal immigrants in the incarcerated population in the American Community Survey in 2016. We found that illegal immigrants are 47 percent less likely to be incarcerated than native-born Americans and legal immigrants are 78 percent less likely to be incarcerated than natives. The results reported in our recent brief are similar to our other research into immigrant incarceration and conviction rates as well as the peer-reviewed academic research.

          The evidence that legal and illegal immigrants are less likely to be incarcerated, convicted, or even arrested for crimes is so overwhelming that even immigration restrictionists like Mark Krikorian at the Center for Immigration Studies admit that, “A lot of data does suggest immigrants are less likely to be involved in crime.”

          Crime data in the United States is poor, especially as it relates to details about the immigration status of the offenders. There is no good reason for a dearth of data on this topic. Thus, improving the quality of crime and immigration data is important so that we can better understand the relationship between immigration and criminality. Unfortunately, the new DOJ/DHS report does not help because the information it presents is of a non-representative subsample of the entire incarcerated population, the title of the report strongly suggests that it reports all incarcerations rather than just those in federal correctional facilities, and this information is already available.

          Topics
          International Economics, Development & Immigration

        12. avatar Sam I Am says:

          If I understand correctly, since illegals commit less crime per capita than natural born citizens, we should not complain that all those crimes by illegals would not have happened if those illegals had not been in the country?

          You justify illegal occupation of the country by demonstrating a lower than citizen rate of criminality? To use the coin-of-the-realm….if removing and stopping illegals from being here prevents even one crime, securing the border, and removing illegals is worth it…especially if it saves one life that would not have been lost, but for illegals.

        13. avatar Dude says:

          Geez Vlad, could you just read and post the relevant parts? Do you even read this? The only item this tries to refute from my original post is the part about federal prison populations. Even then, it AGREES with what I said which is EXACTLY what the government report said. Cato is not refuting the government report at all, they are just putting their own spin on it and including their own “analysis”. By the way, CATO is known to be not only pro immigration but for open borders.

          So let’s see how CATO refutes it: “The most recent report found that 20 percent of all inmates in federal prison are foreign-born and about 93 percent of them are likely illegal immigrants.”
          Exactly what I said, but now they add in their spin:
          “This new DOJ/DHS report only includes those incarcerated in federal prisons, which is not a representative sample of all incarcerated persons in the United States.”
          Okay, well it is a federal government report not a state report, and like the report said that information is hard to come by. CATO goes on to imply that the number wouldn’t be bad if you also included state prisons. Okay, where are those numbers then? The government report just said those number are hard to come by and CATO did not refute that. Then him and his co author go on to calculate those numbers themselves with some super secret special formula:
          “We used a standard statistical technique known as the residual method to identify illegal immigrants in the incarcerated population in the American Community Survey in 2016.”
          Sounds pretty serious right? It’s meaningless without the raw data. No one just accepts that as fact without the actual numbers unless you’re just eager to find what you’re looking for. But what about the following that seems to be what you’re looking for:
          “The evidence that legal and illegal immigrants are less likely to be incarcerated, convicted, or even arrested for crimes is so overwhelming that even immigration restrictionists like Mark Krikorian at the Center for Immigration Studies admit that, “A lot of data does suggest immigrants are less likely to be involved in crime.”

          Notice that last quote they use to prove their point. Now read it again. Do you see the trick yet? Exactly what I’ve said from the start. They are conflating ILLEGAL immigrants with LEGAL immigrants in order to push their narrative. They start out saying both legal and illegal are less likely but they offer no proof. Then to prove what they just said, they quote someone who DOES NOT EVEN MENTION ILLEGAL. I’m very familiar with how leftist debate this issue. I’m also familiar with the facts. I stated the facts and you just backed me up.

        14. avatar Dude says:

          Hey Moreadventures, Do you notice how, when I debate you, I take every point you make and refute it? That’s how you debate. So if you want to do this, then go back to my first post, and take every point I made and refute it. I know you can’t because I gave you actual data, not spin. It doesn’t matter where it came from if it’s data. If it’s an analysis, then yes, it matters where it came from.

        15. avatar Dude says:

          Sam I Am,
          According to the leftists, all we have to do to fix the violent crime problem in areas like Chicago is just dump a bunch of illegal aliens in the area. Then like magic, crime drops like a rock. And if you believe that, then I have a bridge to sell you.

        16. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “According to the leftists, all we have to do to fix the violent crime problem in areas like Chicago is just dump a bunch of illegal aliens in the area. ”

          Well, that’s more innovative than just taking guns from people who have done nothing.

          Now, if the leftists want to pit MS-13 against your generic homie gangsta…..

        17. avatar moreadventuresonotherplanets says:

          “””””””””””””””””. Then to prove what they just said, they quote someone who DOES NOT EVEN MENTION ILLEGAL. I’m very familiar with how leftist debate this issue. I’m also familiar with the facts. I stated the facts and you just backed m””””””””””””””””””

          No Dude you just twist what they said to bolster your own hatred of immigrants. I will go with the Cato Institute not some Right Wing Nazi like you.

        18. avatar Dude says:

          Show me where I twisted anything then. You can’t because I didn’t. I quoted straight from your post. Liking or not liking has nothing at all to do with discussing actual data. I never said anything bad about anyone. That’s your prejudice talking. You’re invested in the emotion and the feelz instead of being able to stand back and objectively look at facts. When all else fails you just attack the messenger. I make an honest effort at these discussions. I even gave you a pointer on how to debate, but you would rather cover your ears, stomp your feet, and yell. Catch you on the next one.

      2. avatar GluteusMaximus says:

        The racists are everywhere. There might be one under you bed right now. Better go check

        1. avatar moreadventuresonotherplanets says:

          I do not have to because the bulk of them make this forum their home that is obvious.

        2. avatar Southern Cross says:

          I think the immediate team I work with would like to know that. I work daily with someone born locally of Chinese ancestry, an Indian Muslim, a Nepalese, and another middle-aged white guy. Other team members at other sites include my team lead who is from Taiwan, several Philippinos, Vietnamese, Chinese, South Africans, and others I’m yet to find out about but in general don’t really care as we all focused on doing our jobs.

    3. avatar Chris T in KY says:

      “Yes…. anyone recieving government housing assistance or food stamps, should be barred from owning firearms…”

      I use to hear Libertarians say this al the time. When I was stationed in Virginia back in the 1990s.
      AM790 Norfolk VA Libertarian talk radio.

  4. avatar GS650G says:

    There go those guns just shooting people again.

    1. avatar Steve Eisenberg says:

      It’s similar to “two people were struck by an SUV…”

  5. avatar NH Guy says:

    This was a birthday party for a guy who was shot and killed when he tried to carjack – at gun point – a person who had a concealed carry permit. In other words, they were celebrating a thug criminal.

    Yet, when you read the local papers the thug is described as “a victim of gun violence.”

    It sounds like this incident was a result of a bunch of thugs being thugs.

  6. You might note that the memorial was for the ATTACKER in that April attempted carjacking. A memorial for a thug drew more thugs. Go figure.

    https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-met-concealed-carry-shooter-not-charged-20190428-story.html

    1. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

      Carl,
      I cracked up after reading your avatar.
      Thanks for the morning chuckle.

      1. avatar Geoff "Bah, Humbug!" PR says:

        Lube is over-rated, anyways…

        *snicker* 😉

    2. avatar Chicken Wing says:

      Wow. I can see the tshirts with his picture on them. Or maybe they’ve upgraded to silk screened plate carriers.

  7. avatar billy-bob says:

    Don’t think it tales a lot of technology to predict where the majority of the shootings in Chiraq will occur. Just stake out the ‘memorials’ for bangers and thugs.

  8. avatar Dude says:

    “..experts also credit anti-violence programs that offer jobs and gang conflict mediation.”

    I wonder how many gangs have opted for the gang conflict mediation? How do the negotiations go? “Okay guys, let’s just not kill each other.”

    1. avatar enuf says:

      This group has had a lot of success reducing inner city, gang and youth on youth violence. Including in Chicago and Baltimore. Problem is that politicians don’t like success that is outside their partisan narrative, success that they cannot take credit for. Thus Cure Violence was removed from Chicago because what they do was working and local politicians saw that as a challenge to their authority.

      CureViolence.Org
      https://cvg.org/

      “Violence as a Health Issue, Violence is like an epidemic disease … and it can be effectively prevented using health methods.”

  9. avatar enuf says:

    MEANWHILE, IN MARYLAND …..

    Reports say 7 people shot early Sunday in downtown Baltimore
    https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/reports-people-shot-early-sunday-downtown-baltimore-67881312

    1. avatar Leighton says:

      The left only cares when it is a cop Or a white man…unless it is a suicide

  10. avatar Darkman says:

    This is No longer the fault of the police or the politicians. The fault lies directly at the feet of the citizens. They have abdicated the right of Self Protection to the point. Where they have accepted their victim-hood as part of their daily lives. Yes there will be much grief and protests. Yet at the end of the day nothing will change. The people of Chiraq will continue to die. They will continue to elect the very same Ideology. That deprives them of their Right to protect themselves. That claims to know what is best for them. Even after decades of continued Failure to protect them from violence and death. You buys your ticket. You rides the ride.

  11. avatar ROBERT Powell says:

    anytime you put a democrap in the mayors office ,they will have a yes-man/woman in the chief of police office,AND A REVOLVING DOOR at the jail. the shooters get a very lenient jail time or a lettem-go from the democrap judge..

  12. avatar Jay in Florida says:

    At this pointy in the news of the day do we really need a daily report on Chiraq of all places.
    Better yet do we really care??
    Why not add NYC to the daily report of it or is too boring there??
    What if any purpose does it do showing gang rats killing gang rats with the occasional collateral damage in the way.
    Other then to show the failure for over a century of Libitard rule. But that’s also true of every large city in the country. The Dimwitz are pure failures at governing.
    Call me whatever you wish. I for one don’t really care about the gun violence in Chicago the gangs are doing us law abiding a service..

    1. avatar pwrserge says:

      I still think it’s about time to send in the Marines in full counter-insurgency mode. Hand out a list of known gang members and their Demokkkommie enablers with shoot on sight orders. The problem will be solved in a long weekend.

      1. avatar moreadventuresonotherplanets says:

        If you travel to Virginia in the coming weeks you will find your so called buddies pointing M16’s at you if you get in their way when they take the guns. Please go there I would like to see you get toasted on the 6:00 News it will make great entertainment. We Socialists like to bask in the limelight of victory over the Nazi’s like you.

        да здравствует победа

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          Son, the only thing that will happen in Virginia is a whole lot of Demokkkommie politicians getting shot or strung up.

        2. avatar pwrserge says:

          Here’s what you don’t get. The military hates your guts. We would gladly round up all you commies and waterboard the stupid out of you. No politician is stupid enough to commit suicide by sending the military in to support Demokkkommie policies. That politician wouldn’t live long enough to finish his sentence. Whomever he was giving the order to would summarily execute him on the spot.

        3. avatar Southern Cross says:

          The National Guard is made up of people from the same state. Aside from being in violation of Posse Comitatus, the actual Guard members are more likely to mutiny and that would include all but the most martinet officers.

          You would have to have your ANTIFA Commissars to ensure their loyalty and political indoctrination.

        4. avatar moreadventuresonotherplanets says:

          “””””””””””””””””The National Guard is made up of people from the same state. Aside from being in violation of Posse Comitatus, the actual Guard members are more likely to mutiny and that would include all but the most martinet officers.

          You would have to have your ANTIFA Commissars to ensure their loyalty and political indoctrination.””””””””””””””””””””””

          You obviously never were in the military. The National Guard will do as they are told and if they do not the Feds will send in the Federal Government Troops.

          Lets face facts when the laws are passed the people will obey. We have an aging population and in order to have riots you need a young population as is found today in Hong Kong. If Hong Kong had the same ratio of Old Farts as we have you would have not heard much at all when the Chinese tried to pass their extradition law. You do not start trouble or violence with the geriatric crowd. You dictate and they obey and shout Heil HItler.

        5. avatar pwrserge says:

          Lol… ok kiddo. Some of us served in the military. Anybody stupid enough to give that order wouldn’t live long enough to finish the sentence. The reality is that you commies are a tiny minority. That’s why you have to keep sneaking in illegals and rapefugees to rig elections. Why? Because leftists don’t have kids of their own. That’s why you’re still living in your mother’s basement.

          As for Federal Troops… ok… you think Trump will give that order? After he wins 2020 in a landslide? Look at what just happened in the UK. It’s a portent of things to come for you commies.

        6. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Not only was in the military, I am retired officer. The kind of order you think so much of would never reach the enlisted, the officer who issued it would be shot dead by the officer he issued it to. Which makes you a fool, a liar, or more likely both.

      2. avatar Sam I Am says:

        “I still think it’s about time to send in the Marines in full counter-insurgency mode. …The problem will be solved in a long weekend.”

        Gee, all this attention to people the MSM, liberals, democrats and gun-grabbers (sorry for the repetition) do not care about. Focus on the people for whom the “good people” really care about….themselves and their friends. They have no interest in ending inner city violence, because “good people” do not go to inner-cities; they go to movies, and malls, and school, and cool nightclubs, and stuff.

  13. avatar Shire-man says:

    Technology that predicts where shootings will take place?
    Lol @ racist tech. Stop and frisk is cool as long as robots and algorithms are doing it.

  14. avatar 007 says:

    We need more “common sense” gun laws because the old ones do not work.

    1. avatar Sam I Am says:

      “We need more “common sense” gun laws because the old ones do not work.”

      Did you suffer any long-term injury trying to get into the head of a gun-grabber. Tried that a few times myself. Not recommending you do that too often.

    2. Then let’s go back to the original “gun law”:

      “the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        Damn! Why didn’t I think of that?

  15. avatar grumpster says:

    The problem in Chicago is not gun or gun control laws, it is the failed policies of the democrat progressives that have let the ghettos turn into thug gang infested shit holes and then a police force that is severely undermanned and very poor morale since the higher ups will throw a police officer under the bus in a second to protect their sorry asses. On top of that when a violent criminal is arrested the Crook County hug a thug mentality of super Soros progressive Kim Foxx try to be as lenient as possible even on those convicted of crimes where firearms are used in a violent manner against the innocent. But of course the complicit fake news MSM only wants to talk about guns and more gun laws that will only impact already law abiding firearm owners further infringing on their Second Amendment Rights which will have ZERO impact of reducing these gang shootings.

    Crime Under Illinois’ “Catch and Release” Justice System
    https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/crime-illinois-catch-release-justice-system/

  16. avatar tsandl says:

    Isolated incident [ahy-suh-ley-tid in-si-duhnt]
    noun
    1. A widely reported event that is of little or no use in the furtherance of Communist propaganda

  17. avatar Leighton says:

    Another mass shooting by black people?
    In Chicago?
    Anyone else NOT surprised?
    Just sayin’…,

  18. avatar strych9 says:

    “Waller said police recovered a revolver.”

    I knew it was only a matter of time until Jerry Miculek lost his marbles. Shooting like that… for so long. Eventually it gets to the point that one just can’t take the stress of being that amazing.

  19. avatar RGP says:

    Shootings in Chicago, New Orleans, and Baltimore are not supposed to be in the news!

  20. avatar DAC45 says:

    Wow. Trolls and monkeys with Glocks are on in the same.

  21. avatar Alan says:

    Regarding shootings in Chicago, there seem to be quite a few, who are the shooters, and also who are their victims? I expect the question might upset some, but it strikes me as worth asking, worth answering too.

  22. avatar Anti water walker says:

    I have no problem with the Gangbangers killing themselves off.
    Let-it go on long enough and the problem will fix itself.
    The problem is not the guns its the idiots pulling the trigger

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Regardless of treatment of guns or whatever, the problem will definitely NOT correct itself, nor can it be corrected, so long as Americans continue to pay any amounts for illegal drugs. The easiest way out is to eliminate illegal drugs, and the only real way to do that is to legalize all drugs, while removing all funding for rehab or medical intervention, just let them die. Shootings will drop 80% in a year.

  23. avatar WI Patriot says:

    And somehow, in some way, this is going to be laid at the feet of law abiding gun owners everywhere…

  24. avatar Timothy Toroian says:

    Chitown has had some of the stupidest in the country living there going back into the 20s.

  25. avatar PATRON49IFT says:

    I’ve noticed a distinct, disturbing turn in the level of discourse on this site. Seems ass-hats with some knowledge think they have lots of knowledge. However, it seems common sense is not that common. If you think for a second that the politicians who run VA and other blue states would not confiscate all guns if they could, you are sadly mistaken. I for one firmly believe this will be a defining point in the history of our country; there are those who want to control others by force and the first step in that process is disarming the public. History is replete with examples of why we should never allow that to happen. Personally I would rather die fighting on my feet than live whimpering on my knees. But that’s just me.

  26. This is as “isolated” an incident as the beating of Carolina Obrycka.

    The shooters would get along well with Tony Abbatte.

  27. avatar Sisted Twister says:

    Isolated incidents. Thats what they are calling them now? Guess that is less triggering than “urban youths.”

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