Would You Trust Frangible Ammunition in Your EDC? – Question of the Day

The new Inceptor .223 Rem 35 grain ARX ammunition.

Prior service U.S. Army Airborne Ranger Paul Lemke founded the company now known as Inceptor Ammunition in 2012. Lemke’s goal was to create innovative frangible ammunition with a twist to differentiate their products from the then-current industry offerings.

The majority of frangible ammunition companies today use a sintered copper-tin combination in their bullets, but Inceptors are different. Theirs are made with a proprietary copper-polymer compound. The use of polymer as a binding agent is certainly unique and may well give the bullets something more thanks to its toughness and viscoelasticity.

According to Lemke, “Combining [our production] capabilities and know-how with the inherent advantages of injection molding has resulted in ammunition that is true revolutionary in a 140-year-old industry that has seen relatively little innovation in materials, design and manufacturing processes.”

That ammunition is offered in a variety of calibers including their new .223 Remington 35 grain ARX and 10mm 90 grain ARX. Other options include the usual ammunition suspects from 9mm 65 grain ARX to .45 ACP 118 grain ARX. There’s also a +P option for 9mm fans. (And, of course, .38 Special, .357 Magnum, .380 ACP, and so on.)

Over the years I’ve used various calibers of Inceptor on paper, steel, and a variety of game and varmints. Last winter I dropped a mature Whitetail doe using their 10mm and used the same caliber on a badger. Feral hogs have also been fair game, right on up to a 225-pound boar with awesome cutters.

On paper, using the Ruger SR1911 10mm with a rest, I had a best five-shot group of 1.66” at 25 yards; with the Gen 5 Glock 17, Inceptor’s 65-grain 9mm rounds tore ragged single-hole five-shot groups shooting off-hand between 7 and 10 yards. Suffice to say, Inceptor’s line has become well worth the attention.

A badger taken by the author using Inceptor 10mm 90 grain ARX.

So, why am I here now? Because frangible ammunition is perhaps the least-understood and most ignored slice of the ammunition market. Ballistics have come a ridiculously long way over the years; the frangibles of today are not the frangibles of the past.

Bullets that fragment on impact with objects harder than themselves? That’s my idea of awesome. Don’t believe it? I’ve fired frangibles at AR500 steel plates from 18” away (not saying you should try it, but if you do, please, wear be sure you’re wearing eyes and ears). That’s not an exercise I would ever repeat with standard FMJs or HPs.

It’s not only for steel and does far more than group well on paper. Inceptor is made for hunting and, yes, self-defense. In fact, the double-stack .45 ACP sitting beside me right at this moment is loaded with Inceptor Ammunition. It’s grown on me and earned its place through a lot of shots fired down-range.

Good enough for your EDC gun?

comments

  1. avatar Bloving says:

    As kind as it works reliably and leaves a sufficient wound channel, that seems more important to me than being frangible.

    1. avatar Kat Ainsworth says:

      Inceptor has made some fantastic permanent wound channels in deer and hogs. I like the fact that it doesn’t over-penetrate, personally. It’s made me enjoy it even more for hunting.

  2. avatar Jay in Florida says:

    Trust it maybe. In a handgun entry damage looks good. Use in place of my go to round. Federal HST.
    NEVER

  3. avatar canuck_in_ca says:

    I was getting FTF with that ammo. One of the rare rounds my HK USP chokes on. I didn’t finish the box.

    1. avatar Kat Ainsworth says:

      Recently or a few years ago? Curious because I’ve watched it evolve with time. I’m sorry your experience wasn’t good.

      1. avatar canuck_in_ca says:

        It was purchased 6 months ago. 9 mm. 65 grain. One reviewer on laxammo.com also reports it choking in his G19 and P226.

      2. avatar Eric in Oregon says:

        Tried it a few years ago and it didn’t run reliably in my Glock 42 either (to be fair, the 42 is a finicky eater). I’d try it again though as I love the concept.

        1. avatar Kat Ainsworth says:

          It definitely falls under the same umbrella as HPs for feeding. There are certainly going to be guns that do not like it. They do have more than one type of bullet now, training rounds and the self-defense and hunting lines.

          I’m sorry you guys haven’t had good luck with it. You absolutely want to stick to ammunition you can rely on in your carry gun.

  4. avatar jwtaylor says:

    No, I would not.
    I have a hard time believing any round that will disintegrate on steel will still reliably punch through heavy bone. I would need to see a ton of good data from a third party lab to change my mind, or shoot through a few big pig shoulders myself.
    For my EDC or my duty weapon, any frangible round is completely out of the question, as I may need to be shooting through vehicle glass or doors. Barrier penetration is a requirement for an EDC round.

    1. avatar Michael S. says:

      On the bone, I was skeptical as well. A former SF friend of mine helped do some testing of the 9mm ARX round several years ago. He knows the PolyCase/Inceptor guys, so they were on hand. It was nasty on a pig skull. It was domestic, but still a large pig. They did full hams as well with no issues breaking thigh bones. It will go through car doors and auto glass, but not door frames. He ended up being their ammo tester for a while. He trusts it enough to use it in his EDC.

      Unfortunately, he only put these on his FB profile. There might be some that they (Polycase/Inceptor) filmed from those tests floating around on the internet. This was just stuff off his old iPhone.

  5. avatar EU says:

    “Last winter I dropped a mature Whitetail doe using their 10mm and used the same caliber on a badger. Feral hogs have also been fair game, right on up to a 225-pound boar with awesome cutters.

    On paper, using the Ruger SR1911 10mm with a rest, I had a best five-shot group of 1.66” at 25 yards;”

    Kat, at this time I’m uncertain of using frangible projectiles in my EDC, but if you write-up your ARX 10mm escapades with your Ruger 10mm (and other 10mm firearms?) you’ll certainly hook a lot of regular readers. Pictures tell 1,000 words… and I we won’t even care if you’re trying to sell ARX ammo, we wanna see photos (over-all, wound channels, etc) of game taken with 10mm.

    1. avatar Kat Ainsworth says:

      You can find that specific deer hunt in the fall issue of Deer and Deer Hunting magazine. You’ll be able to find a large number of my handgun hunts in my book which is being published by Skyhorse Publishing this coming winter.

      I’ll also write up some of them in my hunting column here on TTAG.

      1. avatar EU says:

        Thanks for the information – looking forward to reading more of your hunting column.

    2. avatar Kat Ainsworth says:

      Sidenote: I am not selling anything. I do not benefit from sales in any way. I just like their ammo.

    3. avatar Matt in SC says:

      “and I we won’t even care if you’re trying to sell ARX ammo”
      I hope the “we” is a mouse in your pocket. My biggest concern with the ownership change is that the integrity of the reviews will be compromised by ad revenue. A multifaceted company such as the new owners can hide contributions to other parts of their organization for payment of reviews. I want every review on this site to be the true evaluation of something I might rely on to save a life, or even just spend my hard earned money on.

  6. avatar Stereodude says:

    Aren’t frangible rounds generally training rounds? Why would you put them in your EDC for DC?

    1. avatar Kat Ainsworth says:

      Not anymore. Frangibles are manufactured by a number of companies for self-defense and hunting. The best method I have for testing them for self-defense isn’t in gel, it’s hunting. I dropped a 225 pound hog with Inceptor .40 S&W which made me quite happy with it. I have not and do not plan to hunt with anything smaller, caliber-wise.

  7. avatar raptor jesus says:

    Tell us the benefits – because this article doesn’t list any that I can see.

    1. avatar Kat Ainsworth says:

      I’m happy to write up a hunt I’ve done using frangibles in my hunting column on TTAG. I plan to, in fact.

  8. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

    I’m gonna go look up the specs on that 10mm ammo.
    I’m very interested.

    1. avatar Kat Ainsworth says:

      It’s new this year. I ran it last fall and winter at great length both on the range and hunting. Part of that involved running hundreds of rounds through a stack of guns from different manufacturers. I was impressed because it did not fail. Lack of failures wins me over every time. Personally I think it might be their best caliber.

  9. avatar Kenneth says:

    Every day. I carry alternating rounds of FMJ, HP, and frangible.
    Yet another great thing I can do(because revolver) that the rest of you cannot.

    1. avatar Kat Ainsworth says:

      What brands do you use?

      1. avatar Kenneth says:

        I tend to use quite a few different calibers, mostly .45acp, 9mmP, .380acp, and .38spl, .357 mag, and .44spl. But my favorite carry piece is a “J” frame Smith of 60s vintage, so I pretty much have to handload the FMJs. I’m just too pleased with the carry comfort to give it up. I have found a frangible in .38+p, Underwood 105 grain. In years past I had to pull bullets from a .357 and then reload them into .38 cases(what a pain in the tuckus that was…it’s tough to pull and reseat a frangible bullet without damaging it).
        To tell the whole truth I’m still testing various bullets, but in spite of very different results, sometime even the same targets but a different day, I have concluded that so long as I have some bullets designed for penetration, some for large wound channels, and some for a balance between the two, my bases are well covered.
        I don’t alternate ammo in a single mag(or rather, only at the range). I’ve noted too many stoppages that way. I also have not tried whole mags of frangibles. But with the new stuff that’s available now, I might have to try that out. But, in any case, I never carry an ammo that hasn’t proven itself, in the gun I intend to use it in, over at least a few hundred rounds on the range.
        I don’t bother with all this in hunting rounds though. I think hunting rifle rounds(.270win, .30-06 etc.) have so much power, in relation to the target, that the design of the bullet is really a secondary consideration. If I was to hunt bear with a 5.56 now… that would be a very different matter. I think in that case I would go all for penetration and forget the wound channel, with something like SS109 ammo. I thought of moving from Montana to Alaska when I was a young man, and my idea for that case was a lever action in .45 colt with +P handloads. Then along came all the big bore ARs, like .458 socom, and that seemed like good Alaskan Brown medicine to me. Notice my theme? I really cherish light weight and quick handling over other considerations, including ballistics performance, ammo capacity, quick reloads, etc. I don’t expect to reload in a fight. If I shoot dry, I’ll be hunting cover for the reload anyway, so the loading speed doesn’t much matter to me.
        At a match though… now I use massively flared mag wells and rubber bumper floorplates on the mags. but there is no way I would ever carry that load on a daily basis, because I would never reload that way in a real situation in the first place. Matches, while great in many ways, are just a game, and not a fight. Its easy to tell, games have rules and judges. Fights do not. Any time there are rules, one must play towards those rules, or someone else will and they will beat you. But without rules(other than the one left alive wins), its time to think outside of whatever box of rules that one is familiar with.

    2. avatar Rammerjammer says:

      Kenneth, your practice of alternating carry rounds reeks of amateurism. Pick a round and stick with it.

      Kat, your inquiry is nothing more than branded content.

      1. avatar Kat Ainsworth says:

        Actually, it’s curiosity. Question stands.

      2. avatar Kenneth says:

        “Kenneth, your practice of alternating carry rounds reeks of amateurism.”
        Really? Have you a reason, or only an opinion? I’d be glad to discuss your reasons, assuming you have any. If not, then your opinion is of little interest, being founded upon nothing.
        “Pick a round and stick with it.” WHY? Because you say so? Not good enough. REASONS???? I’d be happy to hear them…

    3. avatar jwtaylor says:

      Not that I want to, but why can’t I load alternating types of rounds in my semi-auto? I do it with ammunition for gun reviews all the time.
      Are all of my magazines somehow defective?

      1. avatar MiserableBastard says:

        For PCC matches I like to alternate wolf polyformance 155 gr 9mm with brass 147 gr FMJ in my suppressed scorpion EVO in 30 round mags. Loading only steel cased tends to not feed as well due to the grippiness of the wolf cartridges, never an issue with brass.

    4. avatar Evey259 says:

      Sorry, bud, but please explain how I can’t load alternating rounds in my 15+ capacity magazine to my simple peon brain because, golly, I can’t possibly understand it right now.

      1. avatar Kenneth says:

        Have you ever loaded different types of ammo in a semi auto? If you have, you should certainly have noted that it tends to cause stoppages, sometimes quite badly. And if you have never tried it, then that’s the reason. Because stoppages are a bad thing.

        1. avatar MiserableBastard says:

          I have, and never had a problem in M&P 9, PPQ M2, P99cAS, PMR 30, PT92 AFS, SR22, P22, CCP.

        2. avatar Kenneth says:

          I, also, have never had a stoppage with my PT92. With every other semi-auto though…. not so much.

  10. avatar Ed says:

    I have some inceptor 9mm tracer ammo that fires quite well. Now that I see the performance Im tempted to load at least a spare mag with it. Tracer handgun ammo that preforms like a self defense round sounds pretty damn cool.

    1. avatar Ed says:

      No? And why the hell not? I hit what I shoot at and am not overly concerned with fire….so, whats your snotty ass problem? All my SHTF rifle mags have tracers as the last three rounds so as not to have to count in any kind of a firefight…you gonna tell me thats wrong too??? Another Armchair commando heard from.

      1. avatar dlj95118 (soon to be 83544) says:

        …I think pg2’s response was to the main question, not to your comment.

      2. avatar jwtaylor says:

        Ed, decaf.

  11. avatar RuralMaine says:

    ARX ammo is in all my EDC pistols, mother and I run a mag of them to finish up every practice day. Never had a failure and trust them to protect myself and family.

    1. avatar Kat Ainsworth says:

      Nice! Great to hear it works so well for you. What calibers do you use?

  12. avatar davida says:

    Altabet acrinums are just fine talking to your groupe but i find them so anoying when new ones pop up . EDC is what? every day defence carry? DC , defencsce carry? HP hollow point what are the other?

    1. avatar Geoff PR says:

      “EDC is what? every day defence carry? DC , defencsce carry??”

      EDC – Every day carry.

      Yes, HP is hollow point.

      FMJ – Full metal jacket. An example is usually referred to as ‘Ball’ ammunition…

  13. avatar General Zod says:

    All of my carry pistols are loaded with 9mm ARX. I’ve liked what I’ve seen of ballistic testing on them and as an added bonus they weigh noticeably less than traditional JHP’s, and they feed reliably.

  14. avatar MIO says:

    NO
    There are times when one might need to get thru barriers

  15. avatar Rusty Chains says:

    I run the Ruger branded ARX in my little LCP II since .380 needs all the help it can get. This is mostly a backup piece to my 9MM Primary which gets loaded with 9MM Federal HST. The little ARX rounds are plenty accurate enough in the .380, though I hope never to need to find out how well they perform in real world testing!

    1. avatar DrewR says:

      I also run the Ruger ARX in my LCP II. finding reliable HPs in .380 is tough, and these and the Underwood stuff seem to penetrate deeper than HPs and does more damage than FMJs IN THIS CALIBER. From what I’ve seen all of the larger calibers have traditional HP options that perform better.
      I do think these and the Underwood stuff is a good option for people who can’t legally carry HPs, and they do tend to recoil a bit less in a given caliber. I would love to see them come out with a .32 ACP version so I could pretend to be James Bond with a little more confidence.

  16. avatar Kendahl says:

    This ammunition appears to have great potential. Before we trust it for defense, we must be sure it makes a wound channel that is adequately deep and at least as wide as that from the best JHP ammunition. Reduced penetration otherwise is a bonus but no substitute for adequate wounding.

  17. avatar TexTed says:

    You gotta be kidding.

    You show a picture of a badger? That you shot with a 10mm? 10mm should be taking down a moose, not a badger, for crying out loud. A .22 can put a badger down.

    Frangibles are for two things:
    1) steel targets
    2) fools

    1. avatar Kat Ainsworth says:

      There is no brand of 10mm adequate for use on moose. Every shot taken hunting should be made using an ethically wise caliber. I have, however, used it on deer, hogs, and badgers.

    2. avatar Gun Free School Zones are a crime against humanity says:

      Uhm. What if you encounter a groundhog(not a badger, I know) and the only gun you have is a .357 mag? And that groundhog has been getting fat off your garden and the only .22 is back at the house over a hundred yards away?

      I miss living in the country.

      1. avatar Ed says:

        Texas Teds name tells you everythin you need to know…most men in Tx over-compensate for, ahem, short-comings…I’d shoot a badger with a A.A. gun if thats what I happen to be sitting on at the time…what I wouldn’t do is shoot a moose with ANY caliber that didnt start with a 4 or higher unless It was life and death….then I’m dumping the mag and bracing myself!

        1. avatar Mark N. says:

          4 or better? does that mean that .300 Win Mag and .338 Lapua are too wimpy for moose? Geez, I don’t think I’m gonna mess with any of them meese!

        2. avatar Ed says:

          Refering to previous comments, talking in context of HANDGUN calibers. A little bit of reading comprehension goes a long way. You must be from Texas, FFS.

        3. avatar jwtaylor says:

          “most men in Tx over-compensate for, ahem, short-comings…:
          Dang Ed, seems like you’ve seen a whole lotta wangs out there. Keep up the good work.

  18. avatar Texican says:

    Prefer Underwood Xtreme Defense or Xtreme Penetrator. Feeds and penetrates like ball ammo and creates a larger wound path than HPs. And in the right loadings it will penetrate IIIA body armor, car doors, etc. I looked hard at Lemas/RBCD ammo in the past but didn’t like that it fragmented thru wallboard. Sometimes you have to shoot thru stuff.

    1. avatar Mark N. says:

      I haven’t tried the Xtreme defense; I understand that it was down loaded from the Xtreme Penetrator because of, well, excessive penetration in the 9 mm load. In my experience, the Penetrators are loaded pretty hot, much hotter than a typical 124 gr. HP, although the package doesn’t say that they are loaded up to +P velocities. My first 8 shots are HPs, the reload is Penetrators. I assume that if I get to the end of a mag, pretty much anyone shooting back will be behind cover of some sort.

  19. avatar Ralph says:

    No. For SD, I’ll stick to HP ammo. If it ain’t broke . . . .

    1. avatar Gun Free School Zones are a crime against humanity says:

      …..you ain’t trying hard enough.

  20. avatar former water walker says:

    I’m with Ralph…

  21. avatar Sian says:

    Frangible rifle ammunition? Definitely.

    Frangible pistol ammunition just acts like FMJ when hitting flesh, (but considerably less mass) so that’s not very good.

    I admit the ARX adds something to the equation, but it’s not proven yet.

    1. avatar jug says:

      Proven enough for me!
      Tiny hole going in, then a foot to 14 inches of totally bloodshot hamburger about 3 inches in dia, filled with blood that cant return to the normal bloodstream.

      Not bleed out, but bleed IN!
      Most of it now jelly!

      I am talking ARX.
      Penetrates better than HP in car bodies.

      Also, take a look at Ft. Scott Munitions.
      Solid copper designed to tumble.

  22. avatar Evey259 says:

    Absolutely not. Barrier penetration is important and easily achieved with jacketed hollow points, with this, not so much.

  23. avatar Kenneth G Maiden says:

    I’d like to buy the components for reloading. However, cant really be found and the cost is 100 times more. Screw that!

    1. avatar Old Guy in Montana says:

      Looking at the Inceptor website right now. They offer the bullets for reloading. The cost for a box of 9mm (65gr ARX) bullets is a bit over $21. They offer loading data for their bullets and instructions on how to set the dies for optimum performance.

  24. avatar Sian says:

    “Bullets that fragment on impact with objects harder than themselves? That’s my idea of awesome. Don’t believe it? I’ve fired frangibles at AR500 steel plates from 18” away (not saying you should try it, but if you do, please, wear be sure you’re wearing eyes and ears). That’s not an exercise I would ever repeat with standard FMJs or HPs.”

    The right frangible is perfectly safe at 1″ from steel. done it hundreds of times.

    1. avatar Kat Ainsworth says:

      It’s fun, isn’t it? And useful for CQB training.

  25. avatar Felix says:

    I’m not a hunter, but I thought one of the main requirements for hunting ammo is non-frangible ammo that stays together. Any reviews of hunting ammo report how much of the bullet weight was retained intact from the animal. Why would you want ammo that disperses inside something you plan to eat? Now if it’s feral hogs which you simply want to kill as pests, I understand.

    1. avatar Mark N. says:

      Not too many folk eat the heart and lungs. These bullets won’t get past that and into the meat on the other side.

  26. avatar michael in ak says:

    Why did you kill a badger?

    1. avatar Ed says:

      It was in her AIR!

    2. avatar Kat Ainsworth says:

      Badgers on a working cattle ranch are often an issue due to the holes they dig. Because of that and other problems they sometimes need to be dealt with.

      1. avatar Kenneth says:

        Farms also. When I was growing up, my father used to pay me a nickel for every gopher and prairie dog I killed, but a whole dollar for a badger! That was a fortune to a 10 year old in 1970!
        I was fortunate enough to come of age on a farm in NE Montana. I grew up carrying a Ruger Bearcat .22LR in a Hunter holster. Carried all six chambers loaded too, right up until it fell out of my holster getting out of the saddle, landed on its hammer(naturally), and sent a round past my right ear.
        I wish some old timer had told me about that! I detail examined that gun to discover why that happened. Once I understood the mechanism it was obvious. The hammer rests directly upon the primer, being held off of its positive stop only BY THE PRIMER! The perfect definition of ;”accident just waiting to happen”. Lucky I only got a ringing ear out of it.
        That was the beginning of my desire to gunsmith. I figured out independently that the fix was simple, just load only five. I felt really intelligent until I found out the old time cowboys had been doing that since at least 1873!

    3. avatar Ralph says:

      Badger? We don’t need to stinkin’ badger.

  27. avatar Chris says:

    If it ain’t broken, don’t fix it. Nothing wrong with hst, pdx1/defend, v-crown, any variations of the 600 brands already out there on the market.

  28. avatar Gary says:

    I thought sky marshals and pilots had to carry frangible ammo? Isn’t that fact an incentive to feel confident with frangible for CCW?

    1. avatar Ralph says:

      I’ve heard that sky cops switched to normal HP, which led to an inordinate amount of pearl clutching about overpenetration.

    2. avatar jwtaylor says:

      No sir, .357Sig HP. And the plan is overpenetrarion. They intend to shoot through people or seats.

  29. avatar Anymouse says:

    I don’t care about the design or materials. Give me data. How does it perform in FBI protocols? How deep does it penetrate and how big is the permanent/crush cavity? If something can penetrate 12-18″ through bone or heavy clothing and have a decent diameter, it’s worth looking at. The problem with a frangible is that it doesn’t expand, and at typical handgun velocities, the damage is what the bullet touches. The lighter weights/higher velocities and “propeller” cuts would need to make a 4″+ diametet temporary cavity for me to consider it effective in stretchable tissue. I have heard good things about ARX in .450 Bushmaster and similar.

  30. avatar Vic Nighthorse says:

    No, but I would use the fluted bullets once I saw enough side by side comparisons of wounds in similar living (at the time it was shot) flesh. To me the soft armor defeating capacity of copper (or brass when available) fluted bullets is worth more than frangibility. I carry a speed loader with 100gr Lehigh Extreme Defense loads but still keep 125 Gold Dots in the cylinder. Maybe I’ll go to all LEDs (except for the one speed loader of four that I keep 200 wide flatnosed hard cast loads for monsters) when I see Kat’s evidence of the efficacy of fluted bullets in living flesh. The LEDs look good in gel and are hardly slowed by IIIA soft armor but I am not yet convinced.

    1. avatar Vic Nighthorse says:

      200gr not 200 loads, of course.

  31. avatar Johnston says:

    “Can I use frangible ammo?
    No. Frangible or pre-fragmented ammo should never be used with a Gemtech suppressor. There is a risk that the bullet will come apart upon exiting the barrel and strike the internal components of the suppressor.”

    1. avatar Kenneth says:

      All that means is; “shoot at your own risk”. Its a liability issue. Gemtech is refusing to warranty a suppressor that has been shot through the baffles by a frangible. But they would likely also refuse to warranty any product that was hit in the baffles by anything. One cannot warranty a piece of aluminum that was hit by a projectile. Nothing inside of a suppressor can withstand that. But I have never seen a frangible round come apart in air, except for some light bullets I’ve driven too hard in .220 swift and .22-250. Not frangibles, mind you, just 35-40 grain bullets driven past 4000fps. Stress a small varmint bullet that hard and a lot can happen to it. Just imagine the stresses on that bullet as it impacts the atmosphere at Mach 4, spinning at apx 250 THOUSAND RPM.
      So that risk is minimal at worst. And even if it does happen, the energy will all dissipate forward, so the only damage should be to the suppressor. A minimal risk, even in the worst case.

  32. avatar 50 Year Hunter says:

    Hunting and the word “frangible” go together like ice cream and motor oil. They normally do not mix well.

    Why is it that virtually ALL of the online ballistic testers of any renown or merit pass on the ARX or give it less than stellar reviews? Some have tested it twice because they were told that their specific test methodology (according to Inceptor/Polycase) was not relevant? Then, why would a premier manufacturer like Ruger drop this product like a hot potato? Sure gives me pause.

    When it comes to frangible ammunition, it is great for steel if that is your bent. For hunting or defense, give me a long-proven cup/core design or a bonded core design that has been tested thoroughly in gelatin (or the street) and in the woods. I am not there to experiment when I travel across the country to harvest an animal on an expensive hunt and I am certainly not willing to risk my life on anything new-fangled should the situation call on me to act decisively.

    1. avatar Gralnok says:

      Nothing newfangled, eh? Let me know how that Minnie Ball works for ya. =P

      1. avatar 50 Year Hunter says:

        Actually grasshopper, one of the very first medium game animals that i ever harvested was with a 505gr .577″ Minie over 90gr of FFg Goex from an H&R Springfield Stalker. That bullet may still be traveling because no whitetail that ever walked was going stop that tractor.

        Was almost able to eat right up to the bullet hole too.

        What is more is that my partner and I could clobber pop cans at 200yds using finely tuned Enfield muskets with minie’s precision-swaged after being cast in Rapine molds, using 30gr FFFg and the bullet base filled with Butter Flavored Crisco. Many BP target Enfields use that recipe. If you could hold the sights on the can when the sear broke (standing), the can had a hole in it.

        Here’s a Q for you, Gralnok: How come ***NO*** major law enforcement organizations in the US of A have jumped all over this new-fangled ARX?

        Not one.

  33. avatar AH says:

    Absolutely not. I expect my SD ammo to be able to pierce car doors and windshields.

  34. avatar Specialist38 says:

    No

  35. avatar Gralnok says:

    I trust them. The Ruger brand ARX performed well in tests. Also, comments about being able to penetrate car doors? Pff, a sharp stick could penetrate a car door. Windshields might be a challenge, but then why are you shooting out your windshield anyway? If the threat is right outside, I doubt slight differences in trajectory would matter. Anyway, the ARX rounds feed well, and are reliable. I personally don’t care if it loses a chunk after hitting bone, the rest will undoubtedly do it’s job.

    Added bonus, it’s lead free. That means the criminal won’t die of long term lead poisoning and, if I miss and it goes out into a nearby forest, it won’t pollute the environment. =P

    1. avatar 50 Year Hunter says:

      What tests……specifically?

      TNOutdoors? Ammoquest? Luckygunner? Anyone else of note that tested them that is reliable?

      If the Ruger ARX was sooooo fantastic, why did they suddenly sever all ties with the company? They could have likely bought that little company when they were nearly defunct this past year, but chose to take a pass. Why? If I was marketing a private-labeled product that was the greatest thing since sliced baloney and could buy it for a 100% exclusive, I’d be all over it like white on cottage cheese. Why did Ruger pass?

      The FBI put out a request for a very specific ammunition back in the early 1980’s to work in their snubnose wheel guns and the short-barreled semi’s of the day that were used by their plainclothes agents. Many companies stepped forward with new offerings, specific to the criteria of the FBI protocol. Only one type of ammunition could pass the test protocol and everybody has been trying to play catch-up since then. That very ammunition is STILL the one that tests better than most any other (the HST being the exception) when looking ONLY at the bare gelatin and 4-layers of denim over bare gel testing. We are talking short-barrel weapons that the vast bulk of CCW users carry today. Clue: It’s made by Speer.

      My life is pretty dear and I won’t be risking it to witchcraft, voodoo or anything else that isn’t tested thoroughly OVER TIME. The smart man that has a little defensive shooting savvy won’t either.

  36. avatar Pat says:

    This article kinda sounds like an ad.

  37. avatar Chris says:

    I just had a thought: Ammunition companies in research/development spend a great deal of time and effort making sure the jacket and core do not separate on impact. Why would I want to use a bullet that’s designed to fall apart into 1,000 pieces and doesn’t have a jacket?

  38. avatar Old Region Fan says:

    Hit your Target !

  39. avatar ironicatbest says:

    Never used them but they sound like killing machines if they do what they do. However if they frange don’t that make a lot of bloodshot meat? Remington Cor- loks the deadliest mushroom in the woods

  40. avatar davzway says:

    Ever since October 1987 when legal to carry with CCW in Florida, every handgun carried, in whatever caliber that was at the time (380acp & 38spl, changed to 9mm and 45acp to 10mm & 44mag), ALL have had several rounds of frangible ammo (Glaser Safety Slug & MagSafe); having fired dozens of rounds in each caliber and tested into variety of media (phone book, plumbing clay, water jugs, drywall and hollow core doors) as well as accuracy testing to 25-yards. Frangible is incredibly NASTY stuff compared to most ‘normal’ ammo and for home defense for reducing risk of penetration through walls hitting family or innocents. Regular ammo, starting at 380acp through 44mag and every gauge of buckshot WILL go through three rooms, comprising six layers drywall , two layers 1/4″ paneling & 28ga sheetmetal… THREE WALLS that were 10′ apart. Done it.

    Use this ammo, would need to test for above.

  41. avatar davzway says:

    NO not all ammo is frangible; taking Glock 10mm mag with 15-rounds, one MagSafe, four Glaser (always feed), five 170gr JHP, and five 200gr FMJ. Other mags contain mix, one mag solely with 200gr FMJ, reaching magazine reload after 15-rounds should have been able to avoid that sort of situation and if not, likely Bad Guys are barricaded behind something and you’ll need hole punchers.

    All conjecture; your best to Avoid, also Avoid, and another good option Avoid… not Hollywood, the good guys do not always win, no matter how good, proficient or how many rounds you fire regularly in practice. All planning, practice and etc. goes out the window after the first shot is fired. Mr. Murphy will make sure of it.

  42. avatar 762Hooligan says:

    All rangers are airborne. No need to say airborne ranger unless you are singing C-130.

  43. avatar Jeff says:

    Very interesting, Kat.

    I have shot a lot of ARX and Inceptor ammo, but almost exclusively at paper or steel while testing pistols. Hunter at RangeHot.com told me that his first hand experience with ARX in gel was straight pass throughs that looked just like FMJ.
    I get that your hunting results tell a different story.
    However, I gotta admit, I always find it confusing when I get vastly different reports from multiple sources that I trust.
    I guess it is time for me to both do some gel tests AND take some ARX hunting…

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