New York City’s Personal Defense Catch-22 – Quote of the Day

“I’m going to prison because I felt vulnerable and I wanted to be able to protect myself. The government has repeatedly shown its inability to protect its citizens from criminals and yet NYC doesn’t want you defending yourself.” – Clark Camp in ‘I’m Not a Criminal, But I’m Going to Prison for Owning a Legal Handgun in New York [via dangerous.com]

comments

  1. avatar Jay in Florida says:

    A a NYS permit holder. I carried almost every day I had to go into MManhattan. I never was bothered or hassled by any cop. This was in the late 80s early 90s. Back then look part and you had no issues. Tie and jacket and mind your own business. No problem. Today I’m sure it’s very different.

    1. avatar Geoff PR says:

      {NYC}

      “Tie and jacket and mind your own business. No problem.”

      Would you be that confident if you were to have needed to defend yourself?

      1. avatar Flinch says:

        The 29 year old “kid” in the story is an idiot with a psychotic girlfriend. Sounds like a win for law enforcement on this one. Kept a hi point off the street and showed once again that if you own a gun you need to be responsible.

        This crap rarely happens to normal gun owners so don’t freak out about these one-offs.

        1. avatar EWTHeckman says:

          That is most definitely not the sense gotten from the article. He was consistently trying to do the right thing as far as the gun goes (though, IMNSHO, his relationship with the girl was dumb) and yet is being abused by the legal system. Enforcement of asinine—and in this case, illegal because it clearly violates superior law—is never a “win for law enforcement.”

          “Rarely happens” isn’t good enough. It should be “never happens.”

          Or were you just trying to be sarcastic?

        2. avatar Vic Nighthorse says:

          I doubt that most (if not all) of us have not made similarly dangerous decisions before. 99.9% of the time you don’t get caught for it. I suspect that Harvey Silvergate is not far off with his assertion that the average citizen commits three felonies per day.

        3. avatar Garrison Hall says:

          “The 29 year old “kid” in the story is an idiot with a psychotic girlfriend.” Wrong. He was a normal, everyday American citizen until he got busted, charged, and convicted. Once that happened people like you labeled him an idiot.

        4. avatar Art out West says:

          The kid did nothing wrong (other than poor taste in women, and pistols). It is insane that he is being imprisoned for exercising his inalienable (and Constitutionally guaranteed) human right of self defense.

          The mayor, city council, NYPD police commissioner and the governor should all be in prison rather than this poor sap.

          Off the subject, but this dude does look pretty soyboy. Maybe he can spend some of his time in prison working out.

        5. avatar Hannibal says:

          “other than poor taste in women, and pistols…”

          Poor taste in women- i.e. putting your operating rod in crazy- is the stupidest thing you can do in life. If it wasn’t the gun it would have been something else.

          That said, the only side we’re hearing is his. For all we know he’s jealous, possessive, and now calls his ex “crazy” because it makes his story better.

        6. avatar Batterycap says:

          Wrong. Just an ordinary guy trying to get by, with Type 1 diabetes to boot – which is a bitch. This is all to do with the effective nullification of the 2nd Amendment in NY and the willingness of the NY population to surrender their freedom to their government masters.

          It’s so bad, Federal judges go along willingly with this nullification, demonstrating their complete lack of integrity and their abhorrence of the Constitution.

        7. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

          “the willingness of the NY population to surrender their freedom to their government masters.”

          We’re willing to let it happen too. If every NRA member acted together as an armed force, that would be the largest military force in the history of the world. We’re not willing to stand up and say “no more.”

          Tim of Military Arms Channel gave an excellent description of why we are right to be not willing to do so right now in one of his livestreams in response to a question from a viewer. The video was touching on the possible language of the ATF bump stock ban by fiat.

        8. avatar 1911 says:

          NYC victim disarmament laws are totally unconstitutional.

          Only law abiding citizens obey laws.

          Only a POS pig cop would make a statement such as yours.

          Only POS pigs stick up for communist disarmament gun laws, so they can rule over the “little people” with a badge and gun.

          Statements like yours prove YOU’RE the PSYCHO who should NEVER have a badge, let alone a gun.

          BLM may go about it wrong, but their premise isn’t all that wrong that some cops deserve to be taken off the steets.

          Hope you’re removed from the streets too, so Americans can be safe from mentally ill, power mad, sociopaths like you.

  2. avatar Freebird says:

    Well , little people have no rights !

    Day 2 – Pennsylvania gun ban hearings , Judiciary LIVE stream , 10 AM.

    2 Dozen new bills pending, Republicans already showing weakness like in Florida and Vermont.

    http://www.pahousegop.com/

    Listed Bills ; Firearm Owners Against Crime.
    https://foac-pac.org/

    1. avatar Bob says:

      I fear we will get sucker punched by one of these loose bills.

      Thanks for keeping us posted.

      1. avatar Freebird says:

        You Bet. — I’m actually stunned by the lack of interest by both the gun owning public and gun news outlets.

        ———————— APATHY . IS . DEADLY.
        Todays speakers pushed Gun / Mag. Bans , Rapid Seizure Orders ( already allowed by judges ruling )
        And Rep. Schloshberg , said there are ” No Absloute RIGHTS ” in the PA / federal Constitution.

        Buzzwords …” Safety + reform ” and ” For The Children ” repeated often.

  3. avatar TommyG says:

    The politicians in NYC work for the criminals. The criminals prefer their victims unarmed. Its been that way since Tim Sullivan.

  4. avatar Conservatarian says:

    Wow… reading that article, I thought to myself… This guy made 1 bad risk decision after the next and stacked em high and deep. not surprised he found his way into that kind of trouble given the circumstances of the world we live in.

    1. avatar neiowa says:

      Ditto. One moronic thing after another.

      1. avatar Kenneth says:

        Yup. Almost seems like he’s a young man don’t it? Face it, humans are really stupid when they’re young. Luckily some grow out of it… a few do, anyway.

      2. avatar EWTHeckman says:

        His relationship with the girl is exactly what our culture preaches 24/7. Yet if someone tries to point out how stupid such behavior is, they often get shouted down. I’ve seen that happen in too many “conservative” comment sections to count, including this one.

        1. avatar Flinch says:

          I’m sorry to bug you, but could you provide me directions to your point? I’m sure it’s around here somewhere.

    2. avatar Dev says:

      When could he have possibly legally bought the gun in Ohio? Before he moved to California? After Mexico? Where was the gun when they were in Mexico? He kept it locked in a safe but then he kept it in his car? And the whole reason he had it in the first place was that he felt vulnerable?? So why store it in a car on the street in NYC??? Something isn’t adding up in this story.

    3. avatar Sir Tri says:

      Personal relationship aside, this guy’s reasoning to own a handgun in spite of NYC’s draconian laws is now the reality for many. Anyone of us is one “false accusation” away from losing our 2nd Amendment rights so to berate him is self defeating. The risk of being caught conceal carry in contrast to being able to save my life is a risk many New Yorkers take willfully. This is an example of why gun laws does not make life safer and it also removes our ability to defend ourselves when we need it most.

      1. avatar EWTHeckman says:

        Well said!

        I would only add that such laws not only strip honest people of the ability to defend themselves, they actually increase their risk by putting them into the crosshairs for malicious prosecution for doing something which is not immoral.

  5. avatar SurfGW says:

    Having an unregistered handgun in his car without a concealed carry permit would get him plenty of jail time in his native San Diego also. This man is completely unaware of laws and ignorance is never a defense.

    1. avatar BehindEnemyLines says:

      Not if it’s locked in his trunk seperate from its ammo. At least California respects the Firearm Owners Protection Act.

      1. avatar Baldwin says:

        ” At least California respects the Firearm Owners…” Since when?

      2. avatar rt66paul says:

        I caught with an unregistered handgun in your car in Ca, even locked in the trunk, you will get questioned for sure. Yes, many older people have firearms that they own legally from back in the day, and there are family hand me downs. Having a firearm that has only been made for a couple of decades and not registered in Ca will get you in a heap ‘o trouble.

      3. avatar Hannibal says:

        1) It wasn’t locked in the trunk.
        2) The FOPA does NOT apply unless you are passing through a state without stopping… which would not be the case here, at all.

  6. avatar Joe R. says:

    “Guns” is barely the tip of the iceberg of the problem of THE POS (D).

    THEY’RE NOT EVEN WAITING UNTIL THEY DO GUN CONFISCATION BEFORE THEY START ON OPEN TYRANNY. http://thegatewaypundit.com/2018/04/it-begins-california-senator-introduces-bill-to-kill-free-speech-requires-state-sanctioned-fact-checkers-to-approve-online-content/

    THE Fv<kING POS (D) WANT TO CONTROL YOU, SO THAT THEY CAN DO tyrannical-communistic. THEY ARE WAGING A WAR AGAINST YOU, AND THEY SHOULD BE MADE TO ANSWER FOR IT.

    1. avatar BLAMMO says:

      That would pretty much shut down FaceBook.

      I kinda like the idea.

      1. avatar Setnakhte says:

        No you don’t. It means turning the US into Malaysia at best and the USSR at worst.

    2. avatar Ga PharmD says:

      How either of you read this guys post is beyond me. If it starts with Joe R. I skip it. Too loud and obnoxious.

      1. avatar Joe R. says:

        THAT LOUD PART IS ALL IN YOUR HEAD. READ IT QUIETER, AND QUIT YOUR PROJECTION AND YOUR BITCHING.

        AND, at least you didn’t say I was wrong.

        Doctors and Pharmacists are another part of the problem.

        We have an opioid crisis? Really, how come half or better of them are on prescription drugs, and 3/4ths or better of those are on Social Security for no other reason than being on opioids.

    3. avatar Eric in Oregon says:

      Joe, you know we can swear here right? Spelling it out would make your posts be a lot more readable.

      And no, you’re not wrong about the fucking (D).

      1. avatar Joe R. says:

        right, right . . .

  7. avatar BLAMMO says:

    There aren’t enough criminals in NY. So, the government manufactures them out of ordinary law-abiding citizens.

  8. avatar Anonymous says:

    That was a crazy story. His GF was riding some other dude’s c*** and he got upset about it when he surprised them when he got home, so when the police arrived she said he had a gun because she didn’t like him getting so upset about it. Cops found the gun in a locked safe and then it’s time for HIM to go to prison.

    WTF! This is the opposite of justice. It is injustice.

    1. avatar Hannibal says:

      that’s certainly his side of the story.

      Given the way these things work, I’m generally surprised if it’s the unvarnished truth.

    2. avatar Rick says:

      You’re liable for the laws that exist in the location you’re in. If you are OK with that, then the risk is worth it, so his whining is just that.

      1. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

        Would you say that if it was a banned book, for example see: http://www.bannedbooksweek.org/censorship/bannedbooksthatshapedamerica?

        I ask because I was thinking about it earlier, and I have heard your criticism in the context of American tourists arrested overseas for that sort of thing.

        I agree that we should know the laws of places we go, but I also am willing to admit that I have screwed up on that count and committed a felony while on vacation more than once. One time at the direction of my mother, which, if you knew my mother, would show how ridiculous some laws are.

        1. avatar Sam I Am says:

          Not following your thinking here. Are you saying that it is tough to not break some law, somewhere, so cut the perp here a little slack?

          Maybe I haven’t been at this long enough, but I am sufficiently wary of a hostile and vicious legal system. Just as I am hyper aware of where I can and cannot possess a firearm. When traveling outside my little burg, I know precisely the “carry” laws of every inch of the road, every jurisdictional line, every street that divides two municipalities. I go out of my way to not travel in areas where there seems to be an easy invitation for cops to stretch laws to their liking.

          I recognize the human travesty that is the crazy quilt of twisted gun laws, but I cannot reason out how people ignore the threat. I cannot find any reason claiming “mistake of fact” would hold up as a defense. The perp in this drama admitted to knowing a little bit about how bad NY gun laws are, but he makes no mention of trying to educate himself. That is not a failing of law, but a bold and self-important failure to see, recognize and mitigate the legal threat. It is all on the gun owner to know the law(s).

        2. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

          1. I don’t think any malum prohibitum should be a felony because a) they are inherently not wrong and b) without knowing the act is the subject of legislation, it would not occur to most people that the act is illegal, let alone a felony.

          2. If this wasn’t guns, I think most of us would be more sympathetic.

          3. I think most of us would put more blame on the government if this was a different constitutional violation, like free speech or explicitly arresting someone for race.

        3. avatar Sam I Am says:

          As, I think, you asked, “What if it were a book?” Yes, the laws that punish an act that causes no harm are abhorrent. However, they are the laws, and we are responsible for their existence (“we” meaning the voters – even the non-voters). No mater how onerous laws are, we are stuck following them until overturned.

          So, book: if it were illegal to carry a pocket bible in NYC, and a person is arrested for such, it is incumbent on the individual to know the law of books in NYC. especially as a law banning possession of a bible would not be secreted in some obscure footnote to a municipal ordnance. In the case of a bible, our perp in this posting would have claimed to know that NYC was tough on carrying a bible, but he didn’t know how really tough the law was. Same principle, different prohibited item. Same responsibility on the individual to know the laws regarding a controversial object.

        4. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

          And you answered the question I was asking. Cool.

        5. avatar Sam I Am says:

          Always looking to be useful at least once a week.

      2. avatar Joe R. says:

        What would you say if [hypothetically] I just hunted ya? What kind of laws would you think you’ll have time to tell me about then? Laws mean absolute shit if no one upholds Societal Agreement, and my policy is simply this:

        IF SOMEONE’S GOING TO CHUCK SOCIETAL AGREEMENT, I’M GOING TO BEAT THEM TO IT.

        1. avatar Sam I Am says:

          Not seeing the connection here. How does your reply relate to TX_Lawyer’s comment?

        2. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

          He was replying to Rick, not me.

        3. avatar Sam I Am says:

          Ah. I was following down the page of replies. Looked like the reply was addressed to you.

          Thanx for the heads up.

        4. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

          You’re welcome.

  9. avatar Just the Facts says:

    Nice artical for the most part, but Chicago no longer has “ironclad hoops for legal gun owners”. A FOID is $10 for 10 years and you can apply online. And yes a CCL takes more than most states, but it is not that hard to get one, and Illinois is shall issue. So yes there is a ‘burden’ on your rights, but all said, I would not call it a “ironclad hoop”. Can’t comment on Baltimore.

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      $10 is not the point. The point is that Chicago knows the location of all legal guns, ready to come and get them anytime they like, which may be as early as 2021. After which only criminals will have guns.

    2. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

      Tell that to a poor single mother in Chicago.

  10. avatar former water walker says:

    He chose poorly. I’ve been there.I HATE reading a 3rd party site TTAG. That question should have been on your survey. In prison for a freakin’ Hipoint…😟

  11. avatar Vic Nighthorse says:

    I’ve known more foolish. I knew an expat in South Baja that had 2 1911s and then dated a female federale. He told her about the guns, for some reason I can’t fathom, and then a few weeks later cheated on her with someone she knew. Oddly enough he didn’t go to jail but he ended up giving her more than half of everything he had including the 1911s.
    BTW – the picture of that dude looks like he could have been from the late ’70s Castro district.

    1. avatar Geoff PR says:

      “BTW – the picture of that dude looks like he could have been from the late ’70s Castro district.”

      That was the first thing I thought.

      Then I went and read the article, and discovered it was Milo’s page.

      I then became confused…

      1. avatar Vic Nighthorse says:

        Confusion is okay. Just take it one step at a time;-)

  12. avatar No one of consequence says:

    Rule 1: don’t date crazy.

    Rule 2: if crazy demands you get rid of your gun, don’t tell crazy where you hid it, and make sure crazy can’t find it.

    Rule 3: See rule 1. You can’t negotiate successfully with crazy.

    1. avatar Geoff PR says:

      “Rule 1: don’t date crazy. ”

      As Manfred Mann once said – “But momma! That’s where the fun is…”

      1. avatar Frmrdave says:

        Bruce Springsteen wrote that. Manfred Mann just made coherent the Jersey gibberish.

        1. avatar LL says:

          wrapped up like a douche another owner in the night

        2. avatar Joe R. says:

          Yeah, but he and Hillary both wanted Springsteen to write a new U.S. National Anthem.

          F the lot.

  13. avatar DerryM says:

    I am sorry for his trouble BUT he made a series of uninformed, terribly naive, thinking with the wrong part of his brain decisions. Tough way to learn the valuable lesson that owning/possessing a firearm is a serious thing and you had always better know the State Laws where you and your firearm are and never assume anything about how you can probably just work it out. Despite the Laws he “violated” in NYC being technically unconstitutional, the State and local officialdom can, and will, arrest, prosecute and imprison you.
    His whole history with his firearm seems to reflect a sort of willful ignorance.

  14. avatar Fu manchu says:

    Freddy Mercury LIVES!!!

  15. avatar Vic Nighthorse says:

    If he was scared on the streets of NYC for being small and less than tough looking, I image he is having raging panic attacks about prison.

    1. avatar I said stop staring a me! says:

      Maybe he should try to look a little less flamboyant, so he doesn’t become someone’s
      Señorita in Prison.

  16. avatar KenW says:

    As a fellow TI diabetic I feel for this dude in prison. They will probably not allow him to keep the pump as that is quite expensive. Instead he will be put back on multiple injections by staff as he would not be allowed to keep testing supplies or insulin and needles in his cell. So odds are high he will have frequent periods where his glucose levels are dangerously high or low.
    I know someone who went to prison and he ended up losing his kidneys due to their Incompetence.
    Before like me he was a member of the 5% club, we try to keep our levels in the low to mid 5’s to prevent the damage that can happen. I used to send him testing supplies and glucose tabs they would not allow me to send insulin or needles. Oddly they would not allow Insulin pens as I wanted to send him some of those.
    While he deserved to go to prison and owned up to the fact he screwed up he sure didn’t deserve to have the reminder of his now shortened life screwed up.

  17. avatar Anon says:

    That day he found her on the couch was not the first time.

    It’s well known what Democratic states an d prosecutors do, guy has to have known about the NY STATE SAFE ACT by Cuomo, etc.

    He should get a Darwin Award.

    The only way to keep a secret is to tell no one.

  18. avatar Chris T from KY says:

    Don’t get a gun when you have an anti civil rights girl friend. The two just don’t mix together.

    The new generation simply doesn’t understand the term “loyalty”. It’s a term that goes beyond just a sexual activity. She was not loyal to him.
    You can argue you can fight, no hitting. But you must be loyal to each other.

    I’ve known many very attractive but Liberal, very Left wing women. I’d never trust them to be loyal to me. They all knew I’m a conservative. These women were Gun Grabbers. And so is this mans girlfriend.

    1. avatar Ranger Rick says:

      As the saying goes: “Never trust a b*tch”.

  19. avatar Kenneth G Maiden says:

    We the unwashed lowlife serfs of government, only have what rights some gray suited tyrant says we can have. We must obey the edicts of the overlords. We are not worthy. We are only good for our income. Even our votes don’t really mean much. Now back to work peasants, the trough is getting low and your betters are HUNGRY.
    THIS IS HOW GOVERNMENT REALLY THINKS OF US. ESPECIALLY IN BLUE STATES.

  20. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

    This guy made a lot of stupid mistakes. Most people do. His stupid mistakes didn’t hurt anyone but him. He shouldn’t face a felony charge for that kind of mistake. He shouldn’t even face a criminal charge for that kind of mistake.

    I also don’t blame someone for not knowing gun laws. Between all the federal and state laws, it is pretty arcane.

  21. avatar tjlarson2k says:

    How is it that every state that doesn’t allow carry or legal firearms ownership persisting in defying the Constitution? Why isn’t there a Supreme Court ruling or a massive class action federal law suit for violating the 2nd amendment?

  22. avatar John Thayer says:

    New York City and New York State can no more abrogate the Second Amendment to our Constitution than they can ignore the First Amendment, the Fourth Amendment, the Fifth Amendment or the Thirteenth, Fourteenth, Fifteenth or any of the other Amendments.

    Since the Emancipation Proclamation our society has steadily expanded the civil rights of all the American people, as well as adding many economic, social and personal rights never envisioned by the Founders. Take for example Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, as well as anti-discrimination laws and regulations and affirmative action requirements.

    Clearly, the universal tendency has been to EXPAND our rights, not to limit or deny them, except for the universal human right to keep and bear arms.

    Even illegal aliens are recognized to possess core civil rights and cannot be deported except after receiving due process of law. Maybe New York City should just deport undocumented gun owners to another state. But of course they wouldn’t do that because they are a “sanctuary city”.

    Gun rights are human rights!

  23. avatar Hannibal says:

    Guy bought a gun in Ohio and has been back and forth between California, New York, and Hawaii.

    It was only a matter of time.

    1. avatar Krunkle Sam says:

      In a shitbox with no trunk, that would stick out like dog nuts in NYC

  24. avatar Sam I Am says:

    “I’m Going to Prison Because I Felt Vulnerable”

    No, you’re going to prison because you are an irresponsible gun owner; doing stupid stuff in stupid places, winning stupid prizes.

  25. avatar Krunkle Sam says:

    No pity. The guy was an idiot and strutting around like he owned the place. Bad combination. If he’d taken some precautions about the gun or been OK with the lady getting sassified by other guys or just took off if he didn’t like it, he wouldn’t be in this mess. But no, he expected the world to get out of his way.

  26. avatar AndyinMA says:

    Not smart but jeez are violent criminals doing the mandatory 5?

    Maybe renounce his citizenship and thus become a protected class? Or self identify as something that will garner some sympathy?

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