TTAG Daily Digest: View to a Kill, NRA vs. NAGR, Big Sheep and More . . .

Shootout! (courtesy ammoland.com)

But Guns ARE Designed To Kill – Despite the headline, English teacher Greg Camp dances around the truth about guns . . .

Some guns are designed to be used in fighting and self defense. Note that I didn’t say to kill, and this is not a mere quibble. The goal of a fight is to win—to survive, primarily, but also achieve the desired goal that made the fight necessary. Sometimes, survival is the goal. In other situations, it’s to gain ground or whatnot. But as the the famous rules of a gun fight inform us, the sooner the fight is over, the less shot you get. And the legal situation for civilians defending their lives is that we can use lethal force only so long as a threat to our lives exists, so for us, the purpose of a fighting gun is to bring that threat to an end.

Marion Hammer time! (courtesy thetrace.org)

I Spent a Year Reporting on NRA Lobbyist Marion Hammer. Read Her Emails With Florida Officials. – NRA vs. NAGR

In month June 2013, Hammer asked Governor Rick Scott’s then-general counsel, Pete Antonacci, to investigate the National Association for Gun Rights, a rival gun-rights group that frequently attacks the NRA from the right. Antonacci told Hammer that he referred the matter to a top official in the Florida Department of State and said he’d also reach out to the attorney general.

What is especially interesting is the context of this exchange: Around the timeHammer emailed Antonacci, she had lent her support to a bill that placed some gun-buying restrictions on the mentally ill. NAGR, stealing a page from Hammer’s playbook, had used her rare endorsement of a gun regulation as fodder for challenging the NRA primacy in Florida, launching a campaign accusing Hammer and her employer of selling out gun owners.

Armed teacher (courtesy armsinamerica.blogspot.com)

Reader: Take the damn guns out of the equation – A lot of people believe this . . .

The recent news concerning officers that failed to enter the Florida high school during the shooting identifies one of the glaring fallacies of “a good guy with a gun being able to overcome a bad guy with a gun” as the way to protect our kids. It depends solely on humans always doing the right thing in an horrific situation. Officers may have panicked, made wrong decisions, even as individuals trained to serve and protect.

Armed teachers would be even less trained and could easily have also panicked, avoiding the confrontation or shooting wildly in the moment. Arriving officers also facing a rapidly changing situation must make rapid and accurate decisions as to who to oppose.

Boone-and-Crockett-ClubWorlds-Record-bighorn-sheep

New World’s Record Bighorn Sheep Officially Certified – Not hunted. If only . . .

The ram was found by Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks officials who determined it had died of natures causes. Because a hunter did not take the ram, the department entered the ram into B&C records on behalf on the citizens of Montana.

Key measurements from the ram’s horns that contribute to its final score are horn lengths of 48-3/8 and 49-6/8, circumferences at the bases of 16-3/8 and 16-4/8, and fourth quarter circumferences of 11-2/8 and 11-4/8 inches.

Spring said, “This ram doesn’t have the longest horns on record, or the largest bases, but the mass of his horns carried over the entire length of nearly 50-inch horns is what makes this ram the largest we’ve seen by a significant margin. The last three World’s Record rams have been 208-1/8, 208-3/8, 209-4/8 and now 216-3/8. That’s a jump we just never expected to see.”

Young man with an AR-15 (courtesy thetab.com)

Here’s why raising the gun possession age could cost some crime victims their lives – A Lott of stats revealing the latest gun control scheme is powering down the road to Hell, without good intentions (I might add) . . .

This isn’t the first time that the government has raised the age requirement for rifle purchases. In 1994 the first federal limits required buyers to be 18 years of age. Prior to that law, there was no federal age requirement for buying a rifle.

Thomas Marvell has done the only peer-reviewed study on this change. It was published in the Journal of Law and Economics, and concluded: “Where the 1994 laws seem to have an impact, the suggestion is almost always that crime increases; thus, there is no evidence that these bans had their intended effect.”

Marvell found that the 1994 age requirement was associated with a 5.1 percent increase in the homicide rate, and a 6 percent increase in firearm homicides. Beyond that, there was no real effect on crime rates.

But Marvell notes that if “juveniles are more vulnerable targets, the result is likely to be more crime, especially violent crimes involving juveniles.”

Colt Walker (courtesy rockislandauction.com)

3 Items of Great Significance Unveiled at RIAC – Paging Monty Python . . .

A military-issued Colt Walker is the type of gun that has achieved “Holy Grail” status. They were Colt’s first successful firearms and allowed him to rise from the ashes of his first failed firearms venture in Paterson, New Jersey. It also established the relationship between Colt and the U.S. Government when 1,000 of the new, hefty revolvers were purchased by the Ordnance Department and saw heavy use in Texas. Many were destroyed in use, suffering from burst cylinders, while others were “ridden hard and put away wet.”

It is a rare Walker today that survives outside of relic status. Samuel Colt also had 100 Walkers made for the civilian market, likely intending them to serve as presentation pieces to those men who would assist in its further adoption in the military or commercial markets. With less than 10% of all Walkers known to survive, the Civilian Walkers are supremely rare.

The story of this Walker states that it was originally shipped to retailer Blunt & Syms in New York City, one of the very first stores to sell Colts. There it was purchased by visiting Danish sea captain Niels Hanson. It was passed down through his descendants until it was eventually sold to a Danish gun collector. During World War II and the Nazi occupation of Denmark, it was buried with its case in a garden, eventually being unearthed and re-entering the collector market. It sold shortly thereafter for a then-record $10,000 and in April, it hopes to set a new record all its own.

Right?

comments

  1. avatar anarchyst says:

    I must respectfully disagree with the author’s premise that untrained concealed weapons holders would be less effective than “trained” police officers. Police inaction in the last number of school shootings proves that his premise is wrong.

    It’s all about COURAGE.

    Most people live their lives out as decent human beings without coming into contact with those who would do them harm, and as such, have no idea of what it is like to have to act “on principle”, and do things “out of the ordinary” that serve to preserve innocent life, even at the expense of those who act.

    “Courage under fire” is an interesting concept that most people do not understand, and is not limited to military actions, but occurs in everyday life. Most people who exhibit courage under fire are ordinary, mild-mannered, non-violent individuals who have been propelled (actually thrust) into a situation that requires immediate action. Examples include Medal of Honor recipients, those exposed to combat, and yes, those civilians who take action, and sometimes give up their lives to protect our children in our abominable and misguided “gun free zones” called “schools”.

    Let’s look at comparisons between our military and veterans who DO exhibit “courage under fire” as a matter of course, and our civilian (but “quasi-military”) “law enforcement” (who should exhibit the same characteristics but, in general, do not), but have become more and more removed from this concept of “courage under fire”. You see, in today’s “law enforcement” community, “officer safety” is paramount. Most ordinary line officers will wait for a SWAT team, even on routine assignments, where even the SWAT teams exhibits a degree of caution that results in innocent lives being lost. It appears that the only time police and SWAT teams act with impunity is when they KNOW that they are relatively safe, as in their invasions on individual residences. In today’s “law enforcement” community, “making it to retirement” is the goal. When it comes to police officers, putting one’s life in peril “for the greater good” is absolutely “out of the question”. Unlike our military and veterans, today’s “law enforcement” runs away from gunfire or “waits it out”. Not good.

    A good examples of this is the latest school mass shooting in which the well-equipped police and SWAT teams SAT ON THEIR HANDS while the carnage was taking place. It most certainly appears that “courage under fire” is an unknown concept in American “law enforcement”. We are being told that this concept of “waiting to act” was abandoned after Columbine, but one can easily see that this is not the case, with the latest blatant example being the most recent school mass shooting, where “law enforcement” hesitated to act.

    Of course, “law enforcement” has an “out”. The Supreme Court has ruled that police officers HAVE NO DUTY to protect individual citizens–only “society-at-large”.

    1. avatar Ret1SG says:

      + 10 brother!

    2. avatar Jim Bullock says:

      In the spree shooting that triggered the latest anti-gun spasm, a bunch of people did the right thing:

      – The 15 year old kid who got killed, holding a door so his peeps could get out
      – The other kid, also holding a door, with 5 bullets in him, still alive
      – The coach, who threw himself in front of a gun, to buy his kids some time
      – The jROTC shooting team who put up a shield and hid more of their peeps

      Would that these people had the tools to do more, with the courage and presence of mind they have only shown. Why would we want to limit what people like this can do?

    3. avatar binder says:

      But trained teachers will be even better. 🙂

      Honestly, there will be nothing better for the Second Amandemnt than a teacher taking down one of these sickos

    4. avatar David Russell says:

      They MAY have entered and possibly helped save lives, had they not been ordered to stand down by the politicians, who were in fear of losing school grant money from the government because of some twisted, idiotic, leftist rules. Yeah…they let them die for the money.

    5. avatar dragos111 says:

      Courage is not the only element involved when it comes to an armed teacher protecting himself and his students. The other element is actually need. If you are in the middle of an active shooter situation and you are armed, at least you stand somewhat of a chance against his attack. You have a different alternative than the totally unarmed victims. While you might not have the courage to come in from safety outside and confront the shooter, if you are already inside and need to fight your way out, you have a better chance if you are armed.

    6. avatar Big Bill says:

      Mt response: We aren’t asking teachers to leave their rooms and attempting to find a perp.
      Instead, the intent is for the teachers to stay in their rooms, and protect heir students. If that means shooting an armed perp as he comes through the door, all is well.
      It takes training to attempt to clear a building, as well as teamwork. That’s the job of the police.
      Let’s be clear: it’s not the job of individual teachers to clear a building. The armed teacher’s job is to protect the students under their care. They stay in the room, where the perp must be funneled to at most two entrance points, and often only one. That’s two, or only one, point the teacher must concentrate on.

    7. avatar Kendahl says:

      It’s not complicated. Who is more likely to put up a successful defense? A cop who fires 50 rounds a year to keep his job or an armed teacher or staff member who shoots that much every month in practice and matches?

  2. avatar Patrick says:

    “It depends solely on humans always doing the right thing in an horrific situation.”

    Nope, it depends on humans sometimes doing the right thing in an horrific situation.

    1. avatar Jim Bullock says:

      Exactly this. They love to palm this card: “If anybody, ever, doesn’t do the best possible thing, anything anyone might do is impossible, and won’t help.”

      They love these “sometimes” / “always”, “some” / “all”, “one” / “every” conflations. And the “some improvement” / “perfect result”, “some cost” / “perfect disaster” ones.

      – If one whack-job shoots someone wrongly with a gun, all guns will be used to shoot someone wrongly (and anybody who has a gun must be a whack-job.)

      – If one self-defense with a gun doesn’t end the threat instantly, no attempt at defense can do any good.

      They’re lying and they know it. You can tell because pressed, they will fall back to statistical (philosophically utilitarian) arguments. So they get partial wins, little slices of reduction, gains vs. losses. They just pretend they don’t.

      – 300,000,000+ fire arms in the US. The number that are used for violence is tiny. The number used for criminal violence is smaller than that. (Self-defense is not criminal. We are not required to lay down and die quietly when some whack-job decides to kill us for jollies.)

      – Millions of evil, black, military-style death machines. The number used for violence, likewise tiny.

      – Perhaps the millions of evil, black death machines are more effective given this feature or that. That’s the point. For self-defense, in the hands of people lawfully protecting themselves, more effective is better. What, you want the high school kids killed while their teachers reload? Might as well retain a “resource officer” who won’t go in when there’s active fire.

      – The NRA is simply an interest advocacy group, with 5,000,000+ members, who, it turns out, do not shoot up schools. They just want to keep their hobbies and protect their homes, even when some whack-job who isn’t them does something evil.

      etc.

  3. avatar JW says:

    Two points.

    First, a teacher is likely all in. They are targets defending themselves as well as students.

    Second, they are not uniformed – concealed. A mind experiment is in order. Imagine a teacher with a file in front of a gun. An active shooter bursts in and…

    Equally, an active shooter to be walks in and up to a uniformed officer and pulls a note out of a backpack to give to the guard – then reaches in to the back and shoots him through it.

    Concealed carriers who want to help and have skin in the game seems the way to go.

  4. avatar JW says:

    Two points.

    First, a teacher is likely all in. They are targets defending themselves as well as students.

    Second, they are not uniformed – concealed. A mind experiment is in order. Imagine a teacher with a file in front of a gun. An active shooter bursts in and…

    Equally, an active shooter to be walks in and up to a uniformed officer and pulls a note out of a backpack to give to the guard – then reaches in to the pack and shoots him through it.

    Concealed carriers who want to help and have skin in the game seems the way to go.

  5. avatar strych9 says:

    “Armed teachers would be even less trained…”

    Since no training standard has been proposed at this point saying such a thing is akin to saying “When she arrives my unicorn will be purpler than yours and fart better rainbows too!”

    This statement is either wild speculation based on the author’s assumption(s)/preconceived notions or an attempt to deflect the conversation away from reality by offering straw men. Either way it’s a nonsensical statement that adds nothing to the conversation and should be ignored.

  6. avatar Red in CO says:

    You know, the monster (and I’m slowly coming around to the idea that anyone who refuses to control their fear to the point that they DEMAND we all be made vulnerable is, at the very best, enabling evil) in that third point is correct. After all, it’s not like anyone, say, a particular coach, willingly and knowingly gave his life in a desperate attempt to maybe give someone else a marginally better chance of survival. Nope, didn’t happen

  7. avatar 7.62x54r says:

    At least one of the female teachers at Newtown ran towards the gunfire and died as a result. I believe some teachers love their students and would defend them as their own. If she had as much as a softball bat hat POS would have been a small, bloody pile of broken bones.

  8. avatar Kyle in Upstate NY says:

    So apparently teenagers are developed enough brain-wise to operate a big tank-like SUV or pickup truck or high-powered sports car at the age of 15 or 16, but not developed enough yet to operate a gun apparently.

    And IMO, yes guns are designed to kill. Not murder, but definitely to kill. That is the point. So that they can be used for protection. They are tools of combat, tools of warfare, and contrary to what many anti’s think, combat and warfare do not just occur between military forces but also between individual humans. As an aside, that also is what makes them so safe to keep in the home. Anti’s often say, “Guns are DESIGNED to kill!” therefore implying they are far more dangerous than other household items that can be dangerous. But that this is their design is what makes them so safe. It’s almost impossible to harm yourself or anybody else when properly using a gun. You can much more easily harm yourself or someone else when using a power tool, various household chemicals, matches, kitchen knives, etc…to harm someone with a gun almost always means a violation of the basic rules of gun safety.

    1. avatar Steve says:

      Way too much gun fetishism in these here parts.
      Yeah, it’s “the truth about guns” site, but there’s a larger truth called life, of which guns are just a tiny part, even for folks like my uncle who usually hunted weekends.
      Fetishism is the irrational obsession with something as an especially significant object of desire because its use is treated as an exceptional or urgently needed source of pleasure. Entitlement like fetishism unbalances the soul. Entitlement is the presumption that nobody has the right to interfere with my grasping my fetish object whenever I damn well feel like it, no matter who might be hurt in the process of my gratifying myself as a universal institutionalized and unalienable right.
      The trouble is, every right is forced by social context to yield to the demands of other rights. That’s what being human is all about, living in society, which i learned in kindergarten involves caring, sharing, taking turns, listening more than you talk, treating others kindly so they will do the same and we learn together in this larger safe environment of mutual trust.
      Gun fetishism is evident when somebody makes contradictory claims such as guns are good because they are designed to “kill, not murder,” yet are “safer” than so many other household items (brooms and hammers and washtubs and toothbrushes, etc). Such swooning rhetoric does not do any service to people serious about preserving our 2d Amendment right of self-defense.
      A wiser tack might be to state the obvious, that “gun safety” (as opposed to “gun control”) maybe begins with keeping guns out of the wrong hands, which reduces likely gun-facilitated murders more effectively than trying to arm everybody, since a good percentage of that “everybody” is the very people you wouldn’t want armed around anybody you love.
      And to say we are all at war in our personal lives is a gloomy admission of hostility to others you don’t understand, which indicates some sort of moral or intellectual disability or maybe a fog of forgetfulness of myopia. It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy.
      We depend on so many people every day who are different from us, whether by sex, sexual orientation, ethnic background, skill sets, etc — nobody can run a business if somebody doesn’t clean the toilets, take out the trash, provide needed water, sanitation, electricity, all the needed infrastructural and daily living processes, etc. What makes the lobbyist manipulator of public opinion more entitled to six figure salary (I’m thinking of the angry Dragon Lady in Florida) than the person breaking his or her back picking the fruits and vegetables that sustain our bodily existence?
      Nothing but the lies or myths or so-called “reasonable traditions” a class of warlords competent in the use of weapons (on men and beasts) instituted with the “moral support” of leading religious institutions and their big-talker overlords of “acceptable/proper” worship arbitrarily defining reality, right and wrong, and everybody’s place because they absolved the warlords of guilt or doubt about their bloody deeds in seizing power.
      BTW, most the mass shooters doing these massacres in public places are white males quite upset about not being loved or desired enough by women or by certain other people in general, not unlike the personality of our current White House resident .
      So, regardless of legislative “gun control” showboating in Florida and elsewhere across these great united (or divided?) states, it’s safe to say: Expect more mass killings this year, given the heroic role model leader we’ve elected, and the Dragon Lady Florida legislators piss their pants over disappointing (see New Yorker magazine, March 5, 2018).
      btw, The 2d Amendment is only one amendment, and fetishizing it to the extreme of having a Stand Your Ground law that lets you get away with shooting a guy in the back as “justifiable homicide” who you hadn’t the balls to simply fist fight with and call it a day, is incredibly chickenshit.)
      ironatbest is funny with his joke about COPS, far too many of whom do indeed suck at serving the public. But he misses a larger point:
      This NRA gun-dealers lobby obsession with private citizens arming ourselves to the nines (t’s good for the bottom line, regardless of who gets shafted, like more and more kids these days by our failure to think carefully and thoroughly enough) basically says — yeah, really, think about the logic of this — we disrespect our troops and our men (and women) in blue, because we like to romantically imagine ourselves society’s real heroes far braver and more competent than they are. Yet they are the people who actually do sign up for two years or more to put their lives on the line in their jobs defending our nation or maintaining a modicum of lawful civility and cooperation on our streets (and most of them with integrity, in spite of the excessively rewarded bullies in blue or khaki they have to work beside).

      Why do so many of our vets commit suicide? The PTSD due to the horrors of combat, the grief, guilt shame, hopelessness of having participated in operations they had thought would be noble but turned out brutal, ruthless, pointless, being forced to do things they never imagined a patriotic American would ever be forced by his commanding officers to do. Winter Soldiers testimony…
      But maybe also because most of us are such fetishists about secondary things like guns and fail to appreciate the primary things, like the cultural richness and diverse freedoms we can enjoy and owe it to each other to try to make more available to more and more of our neighbors less fortunate than we are. So some vets may wonder what the fuck’s the point. I wasted my life; I survived where my buddies, all deserving guys, died all around me; I blow up at my wife for no good reason. Fuck me. They’ll be better off without the monster I’ve become. Sadly, a few decide to take others out with them.
      The NRA has it all wrong.
      Most gun owners work hard, raise healthy families, live decent lives and don’t make guns the center of their lives, or the be-all and end-all of what makes this nation great. They are not beholden to a corporate cash cow with its bells and whistles called the NRA whose fat-cat salaried moguls spread fear-mongering propaganda to get us to buy more and deadlier weapons. Live as if you’re in peril all the time and you will be, and sadly you may spread the sickness by your poor perception of reality beginning with sneering refusal of compassion and inability to listen to others, who may be quite different in their tastes and worldview, with a modicum of respect and good faith in human decency. If we want respect from those who are different, gee, what should we do? Not boast about our AR15 and Glock collections.

      1. avatar Specialist38 says:

        Naaaaah…didnt read it. Looked too long and pedantic.

        1. avatar CarlosT says:

          Started to, but then when it became clear it was a “wall o’ text” I scrolled on down.

        2. avatar Patrick says:

          I wouldn’t call it pedantic, though possibly so if it was true, not that there’s anything wrong with that.

          Paragraph 1: He provides an incorrect definition of fetish(ism), referring to our interest in guns.
          Paragraph 2: He says an individual has to get along in a society, follow societies rules, etc.
          Paragraph 3: He says that the other fella made a “contradictory claim” by saying that a gun, being designed to kill, is safer than many other common items. I don’t see how it’s contradictory; it’s pretty easy to not hurt someone with a gun.
          Paragraph 4: He starts with: “A wiser tack might be to state the obvious, that “gun safety” (as opposed to “gun control”) maybe begins with keeping guns out of the wrong hands”. Of course the deterrence of ownership is indeed “control”, whether the end effect is safety or not, and such legislation does primarily keep guns out of the “right hands”.

          I finished that paragraph, but skipped the rest. I would need motivation to continue reading. However, the grammar and syntax was pretty comprehensible.

      2. avatar ironicatbest says:

        I read it and have to say, it’s pretty much true, we do seem to fetishist quite a bit, specially over AR’s. Steve if you’ve read any of my other post, I state often enuff it’s not just about the 2a call me paranoid,conspiracy theorists if you want but I believe abolishing the second amendment will bring about a dominoes effect. BTW I do not own an AR and haven’t bought a firearm for years.

      3. avatar Bob says:

        Steve, I agree with some of your premises, but your way of stating has a somewhat warped Pollyanna-ish view of life. Look at every perspective before you draw a conclusion.

        1. avatar Cliff H says:

          Unfortunately, Bob, Steve seems like the usual Liberal who draws a conclusion first and then goes looking for facts that SEEM to confirm that conclusion.

          Looking at the issue from another person’s perspective does not usually fit into that scenario.

          “I likes to hear the other guy’s point of view so’s I can explain to him why he’s wrong.” – Archie Bunker

      4. avatar Ad Astra says:

        Once I got to the sentence about stand your ground laws making it legal to shoot someone in the back instead of just duking it out with them like a man I dismissed the entire post as the usual hoplophobic nonsense.

        1. avatar Gun Free School Zones are a crime against humanity says:

          Yep. Just another woman and old folks hater that wants young, aggressive, healthy men to rule through fear and physical prowess.

          ‘if you can’t fist fight your attacker you deserve to lose your wallet or be raped.’ Is pretty much where he’s at.

      5. avatar Scoutino says:

        That’s a long list of leftist points, most of them wrong. No that’s not true. All of them wrong.

        Since this is a gun site, let’s not waste time on egalitarian commie points and similar garbage.

        We do not fetishize guns. We merely recognize them as usefull tools best suited for protection of innocent lives from violent attackers. That’s why cops carry them too. (Shooting is also fun thing to do.)

        We realize that there are bad people around us, whom we can’t render harmless by passing a law. These people will always be able to get armed, legally or not. They don’t care about laws. Making it “harder” to obtain firearms legally does not even slow a criminal down. (How is that heroin and cocaine ban working?)

        Even if by some evil magic D. Feinstein made all guns disappear, these violent people will still be here, still dangerous. (Whole human history up to invention of gun powder proves it.) Only good people would be harmed by lessening their ability to defend against them.

        And finally, 2nd amendment is protecting our natural, civil right to own and carry arms, mainly as protection against government turning into tyranny. All other uses guns have are a bonus. That means semi and I believe even full auto rifles are protected.

  9. avatar J says:

    Please help save our 2nd Amendment rights. The Whitehouse.gov petition web site has a lot of pro-2nd Amendment petitions that need people to view and sign if possible. Look at these and decide which to sign. There are too many to link here.

    A lot of anti-2nd Amendment petitions are post there also.

    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/oppose-gun-control-and-weapons-ban-legislation

    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov

    1. avatar Indiana Tom says:

      I signed it and the amount of signatures is too darn low.
      Get going people!

    2. avatar Patrick says:

      Thanks for posting. It’s possible a petition could do something.

      “Repeal the NFA” t-shirts, where I just searched, are $20(S&H?). Is there a better source? Is there a better goal? The Hughes Amendment, or whatever it is, only makes full auto accessible. My problem with just repealing that is that there’s still a “list”, so you do go into potential “red flag” territory, though having a carry permit also puts you on a list. With NFA repeal, background checks etc. would still be required, if I’m correct, so there should be less opposition than full 2A adherence, just no registration list. “We” would still be, as the grabbers put it, “keeping guns out of the wrong hands”.

      Actually, we could start a new repeal petition after expiration every 60 days, and each time TTAG posts the number. The idea is it would grow each time.

      1. avatar ATFAgentBob says:

        capital idea Patrick! Who says giant pink starfishes can’t be smart? Ok sorry that sounded filthy…. uhh anyway yes good idea gold star for today and so on. I’m gonna go try to find the brain bleach the mental images of giant pink starfishes and a nude Hillary Clinton from yesterday are just a little too disturbing.

        1. avatar Patrick says:

          I’d like to exchange my gold star for a gold military-style AK, please.

  10. avatar DaveDetroit says:

    Guns are designed to fire a projectile with varying degrees of accuracy, range, reliability and capacity. Projectiles are designed for various uses- but is a hollow point designed to “kill”, to “stop” or to “be safer with less penetration in walls and barriers”? The vast majority of gun owners are collectors, hunters and target shooters. The percentage of gun owners who murder others is minuscule.

    Teachers absolutely have the right to self defense- even on school grounds. The bone-headed decision to create gun free zones defies common sense as evidenced by the biggest anti-gunners uniformly enjoying the protection of armed guards.

    I’m curious whether this progressive would admit what abortion clinics are “designed for”? Would the same logic apply?

  11. avatar former water walker says:

    Courage is a funny thing…I defended women on the el in Chicago with great peril to myself(looking back). Confronted thieves on a moving train too. And fought off and chased 4 young thugs trying to mug me. I think a teacher protecting children would hopefully do the SAME. They could do no worse than a cowardly cop who puzzied out of his duty…

  12. avatar ironicatbest says:

    COPS ARE NOT COWARDS, five or six of them have the guts to beat the holy hell out of a drunk who won’t listen to what three of them are screaming. Cops are not cowards, two of them have the guts to shove a lady holding a baby to the ground and stand on her neck. Cops are not cowards, one has the guts to shoot a 16 year old kid in the back for running away. Let’s just stop with the cops are cowards okay?

    1. avatar Pawl from Florida says:

      As a retired firefighter I have witnessed cops beat up someone only for having a beard. I have seen them beat a person half their size and then charge them with resisting arrest when they were too drunk to stand up.
      They really get off giving tickets to old ladies and won’t stop a car with four big guys inside.
      I have seen much worst , believe me. It takes a special person to make people hate you and enjoy it.

    2. avatar HP says:

      It turns out that cops are humans, and some humans are cowards, and some aren’t, and some humans are corrupt, and some aren’t, and some humans are cruel, and some aren’t, and….well until we can deploy robots like ED-209, we will be left with human police who run the gamut of human conditions. But it’s cool, generalizations make life easier.

  13. avatar rt66paul says:

    Since the LEO attached to the school was given a mobile home rent on the school grounds, The idea of him waiting to take control of the situation is crazy. He was given the rent free mobile home so he would be there on a regular basis and so that (hopefully) he would be able to stop an active shooter.

    Any other chicken excrement excuses that armchair LEOs may have have been blown out of the water. The LEO was fired for cowardliness and should never be able to draw his pension. In a career where he may have to lay down his life, he was overpaid already and the pension would be a slap in the face of taxpayers(like that matters).

    1. avatar Cliff H says:

      Unfortunately, the latest reports I have heard (Sirius/XM Patriot) have the voice recording of that deputy ordering other arriving deputies NOT to enter the building!

      Additionally, it seems as though since he resigned rather than being suspended and facing discipline he will in fact be able to collect his pension, somewhere in the $75k per year range.

      It would be nice to see a bunch of civil suits against him and the Sheriff, but as I am not a lawyer I do not know if there is any viable grounds to sue either of these gator turds.

  14. avatar mandrake the magician says:

    re: PotUS Trump;
    re: “bump stocks” etc.

    not much he could have done on-his-own with the entire Democratic Party now being anti-gun and a good n° of Repubs. “crossing-the-floor”;
    if even ¼ of the Dems. were committed to the 2A, Trump wouldn’t have had to ‘bend’ so much…..
    but…this is a “heads up” ;
    its time to ‘hit’ them with the totally un-expected….
    its time to change the whole paradigm…..
    get rid of government and politicians altogether…except @ the local, county level…..
    apropos the US Constitution, it is the local, county sheriff who is, under the USC, the supreme law….
    directly elected by the local populace, it is s(he) who decides what is and what is not….
    federal alphabet soup agencies and large metro’/state authorities have no Constitutional authority…..
    the ideal future for the US is secession and massive, regional, balkanisation…
    maybe a return to the “city state” model of the Middle Ages….
    after all: that model has worked for the Vatican for well-nigh a millenium……
    the monolithic nation-state model has had its chance and failed miserably…
    WWII should have been its death knell……
    we need to see the total abolition of centrist, statist power…..
    balkanisation, fragmentation and secession are “the wave-of-the-future” ……

    1. avatar mandrake the magician says:

      the way-to-go is total abolition of ALL “federal authority”;
      to the Founding Fathers, even a standing army was anathema…
      hence…the concept of the “militia” being the de facto entire, able-bodied, male population armed and equipped and ‘trained’ @ a local level and, also, with military ordinance being distributed amongst the populace….you still see an ‘echo’ of this concept with the many National Guard armories;
      as a temporary transition-point: “federal authority” should be drastically reduced to border-protection, immigration monitoring and coastal defence….. that’s it!

    2. avatar ironicatbest says:

      I wouldn’t use the Vatican as an example they’ve committed some pretty hoendous atrocities to remain in power.

      1. avatar Indiana Tom says:

        Some nasty Crusades against Protestants and fore runners of Protestants.

      2. avatar mandrake the magician says:

        the Vatican is an example of a city-state that has survived for hundreds of years;
        that’s all;
        what they have or haven’t done is totally irrelevant to the analogy;
        they’re the only city-state i could think of unless you want to include Singapore;

        1. avatar Gun Free School Zones are a crime against humanity says:

          Balkinize the US and within 10 years we’ll be provinces of red china.

        2. avatar mandrake the magician says:

          China wouldn’t be interested in most of the US;
          maybe sth. Calif …. tht’s it

  15. avatar Kevin C says:

    Some people are naturally fearless. Genetics I presume. 1 or 2%? I may be one. Or maybe have a stupid streak to go with my intellectual achievements. My son appears to be fearless in a variety of realms. Fights in school seems to be a good general indicator.

  16. avatar Kevin C says:

    Fighting for fun, that is, rather than anger or bullying. It appears many authors and commenters are rather fearless–would make an interesting poll perhaps.

  17. avatar ironicatbest says:

    I’m pretty old and slow, but I still like to spar. The last fight was a 25 year old construction worker it got a little out of hand and he fucked me up pretty good, I’d do it again tho lol .Son of a bitch that guy was stout

  18. avatar Indiana Tom says:

    Gun rights are about keeping white men on top.
    Yeah, and I would rather be on top than be on the bottom.
    Speaking of which, in reality world, you would actually be safer in the Wild West town depicted in the drawing at the top than at a gang banging funeral in modern Chicago.
    The Wild West for the most part, was actually a fairly safe and tranquil place to be in spite of the sensational media reporting of the day.
    To General Sherman, journalists were ”spies” whose dispatches were ”false, false as hell.”
    Sherman was not much kinder to newspaper readers. He called them ”the non-thinking herd,” adding, ”Vox populi, vox humbug.” Sort of like the CNN crowd.
    SSDD.

    1. avatar ATFAgentBob says:

      hmmm…. I wonder if one could make the case that the current sensational gun headlines we’re seeing now are just part and parcel of a journalistic cycle. Perhaps that style of reporting is coming back into vogue?

  19. avatar Mad Max says:

    It all depends on the exact facts and circumstances of the active shooter situation.

    If I were permitted to be armed (eliminate Gun Free Zones) and was able to position myself with cover or concealment, I could easily pick-off the active shooter. If, in the line of fire, the only thing I could do is try to get a few shots off.

  20. avatar Chris T from KY says:

    Uncle Hop Tep, Handy Mayhem, is doing the same thing I do in dealing with anti gun black people. He is a pro rights guy. The white liberals, Soros, find the Root, and other of these anti gun web sites.

    Anthony Brian Logan and Tommy Sotomayor are two other black pro-gun YouTubers.

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