Fix NICs to be Combined with National Concealed Carry Reciprocity?

Floyd L.Wensel Jr. (right) (courtesy facebook.com)

Found an interesting comment from Floyd L Wensel Jr. (above, right) under Daniel Defense’s Facebook post urging gun rights advocates to support the Fix NICS bill. Check it out:

ALERT: Feinstein/Schumer sponsored gun legislation that amends the “Brady bill” will be added to Concealed Carry Reciprocity bill (HR 38) in the House this week.

As Chairman of the Second Amendment Caucus, I’m blowing the whistle on the swamp. Last week, Republicans in the House fast tracked through committee HR 4477, a gun bill titled “fix-NICS.” The Senate version of this bill is cosponsored by Senator Dianne Feintstein and Senator Chuck Schumer and it will send $625 million over 5 years to states to expand the national background check database.

The bill will also advance former President Obama’s agenda of pressuring every branch of the administration (such as the Veteran’s Administration) to submit thousands of more names to the NICS background check database to deny gun purchases. The House bill is identical in every way to the Senate bill except the House bill will also commission a study on bump-stocks.

What you don’t know, and what virtually no one in Washington wants you to know, is that House leadership plans to merge the fix-NICS bill with popular Concealed Carry Reciprocity legislation, HR 38, and pass both of them with a single vote. Folks, this is how the swamp works. House leadership expects constituents to call their representatives demanding a vote on the reciprocity bill, when in fact the only vote will be on the two combined bills.

How fast did Fix-NICS, HR 4477, move through the Judiciary Committee? This bill broke the previous records for fast track legislation. It was voted out of committee within hours of being introduced in the House. Check the dates on this link: https://www.congress.gov/…/115th…/house-bill/4477/text .

That means the text of the bill wasn’t even discoverable by the public on congress.gov until after the bill passed out of committee! The text was however available over in the Senate where you will find Senator Diane Feinstein and Senator Chuck Schumer are cosponsors.https://www.congress.gov/…/senate-bill/2135/cosponsors 

If that’s not odd enough, consider this: the fix-NICS bill was introduced in the House by a Democrat two weeks ago.https://www.congress.gov/…/115th…/house-bill/4434/text . But, in a very unusual move, the bill was re-introduced verbatim by a Republican two weeks later, with language added to it to commission a bump-stock study.

Six Republicans in Judiciary Committee weren’t persuaded by the switcheroo, and voted No. However, because every Democrat voted yes and some Republicans voted yes at the urging of the Chairman, the bill made it out of committee.

The deed will be complete this week when the bill is quietly added to the Reciprocity bill, HR 38, and passed without the knowledge of those who would oppose the legislation if they knew what was in it.

To recap, what are some clues that you should be concerned with the fix-NICS bill?

(1) The first sentence after the title of the bill reads “Section 103 of the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act (34 U.S.C. 40901) is amended…”
(2) Senators Dianne Feinstein and Chuck Schumer are cosponsors in the Senate.
(3) It’s being rammed through, without a hearing, in a very nontransparent process, and it will be passed by attaching it to the popular concealed carry reciprocity bill which already has enough votes to pass on its own.
(4) It spends over half a billion dollars to collect more names to include in a list of people who will never be allowed to own a firearm.
(5) It compels administrative agencies, not just courts, to adjudicate your second amendment rights.

In my opinion, #5 is the biggest problem. The bill encourages administrative agencies, not the courts, to submit more names to a national database that will determine whether you can or can’t obtain a firearm.

When President Obama couldn’t get Congress to pass gun control, he implemented a strategy of compelling, through administrative rules, the Veterans Administration and the Social Security Administration to submit lists of veterans and seniors, many of whom never had a day in court, to be included in the NICS database of people prohibited from owning a firearm.

Only a state court, a federal (article III) court, or a military court, should ever be able to suspend your rights for any significant period of time.

Does the NICS background check system have problems? Yes, it results in tens of thousands of unjustified denials of gun purchases every year. But like many bills in Congress, the fix-NICS doesn’t live up to its name – it will likely do the opposite. It throws millions of dollars at a faulty program and it will result in more law-abiding citizens being deprived of their right to keep and bear arms.

If we continue to give the executive branch more money and encouragement to add names to the list of people prohibited from buying a firearm (without a day in court) and if the gun banners achieve their goal of universal background checks, one day, a single person elected to the office of President will be able to achieve universal gun prohibition.

House leadership should immediately de-couple the fix-NICS legislation from the concealed carry reciprocity legislation. People hate it when Washington combines bills like our leadership plans to do this week.

A few have speculated that the House is combining the bills to ensure reciprocity will pass in the Senate. I have some news for them: Senators Feinstein and Schumer aren’t going to vote for reciprocity even if it contains the fix-NICS legislation they support for expanding the background check database.

If someone is naïve enough to think that’s going to work, and they’re willing to accept fix-NICS to get reciprocity, then they should ask the Senate to go first with the combined bill.

Here’s a dangerous scenario that’s more likely to play out . . .

The House uses the popularity of reciprocity (HR 38) to sneak fix-NICS through, while the Senate passes fix-NICS only. The Senate and the House meet at conference with their respective bills, with the result being fix-NICS emerges from conference without reciprocity.

Fix-NICS comes back to the House and passes because all of the Democrats will vote for it (as they just did in Judiciary Committee) and many Republicans will vote for it. Because Republicans already voted for it once as part of the reciprocity deal that never came to pass, they won’t have a solid footing for opposing fix-NICS as a standalone bill.

Then we’ll end up with fix-NICS, which is basically an expansion of the Brady Bill, without reciprocity.

If our House leadership insists on bringing the flawed fix-NICS bill to the floor, they shouldn’t play games. We should vote separately on HR 38, the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill, and HR 4477, the fix-NICS bill. And we should be given enough time to amend the fix-NICS bill, because it needs to be fixed, if not axed.

comments

  1. avatar Geoff PR says:

    Do we not control the committees that bring the bills up for a vote?

    1. avatar Bob says:

      The people don’t control anything. No one is on your side. You won’t be voting your way out of this.

      1. avatar Ed Schrade says:

        I think that the ” comprehensive back ground check legislation” which builds a database on all gun sales and private sales is included in this mess. What could go wrong with inadvertent registration of fire arms ?

      2. avatar Tom Shaw says:

        Systematically politicians especially liberals are excluding large groups of individuals based on medical conditions, senior retired and now 18 to 21 years olds are restricted in Florida from purchasing a rifle. Soon the 18 to 21 age restrictions will sweep the country regarding rifles. What next group will be targeted, maybe blonds women with heavy menstrual periods or a DUI from 10 years ago.

    2. avatar 2004done says:

      Geoff PR (control of commitees?): Yes, we do, that’s why our budget, our defense, our immigration, our trade, our President’s appointments, and our foreign policy have all sailed effortlessly through Congress. (need I say sarcasm?).

    3. avatar D'Narius says:

      What’s this “we” sh*t, Kemo Sabe?

      The GOPe is just the Loony Left Demoncrat Lite.

      The only difference is that the GOPe uses KY and when they’re done, gives us a kiss and playful slap on the behind…

  2. avatar Ginder27 says:

    Everyone in Washington is an enemy of the republic.

    1. avatar 2004done says:

      Ginder27: Pretty wide net you’re casting, there. You’ll need help because it’s got to include many state gov’ts beyond DC also, but it’s a beginning.

      1. avatar Ginder27 says:

        I took an oath 2004. It still guides me and is the cornerstone of my patriotism. My relationship to all governments, politicians, presidents and political parties is first adversarial.

        1. avatar 2004done says:

          Ginder27: Glad to hear it, mine was ’71, but I didn’t really appreciate what it meant until early ’90s. It appears that all those willing to swear will eventually realize what it means. Fortunately some, like you, sooner than me.

    2. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

      This is Key !

  3. avatar Cory says:

    No matter what sneaky shit either side plans, non of them are going to dumb their sides agenda. Either they pass together and we work on mitigating the damage of nics fix and celebrate reciprocity. Or nobody gets anything accomplished.

    If you ask me passing both together would be a win win, makes republicans in liberal areas look like they care, while also giving us one of the biggest achievements in years. Would definitely help Republicans hold the majority next cycle. Just have to pressure them at that point to limit the power of the administrative agencies. And

    I know I know some republicans have been turncoats lately, but seriously the alternative is all demtards, which is way worse. It is better to vote for the republicans that have the best chance of winning rather than voting them out during the primary.

    Splitting the moderate and further right conservative vote is a bad idea that will lead to the fabled blue tsunami.

    1. avatar Geoff PR says:

      Getting reciprocity is no panacea.

      You can bet your ass places like NYC or San Fran will make you wish you never defended yourself with lethal force, or were just carrying. You can expect to get arrested and your gun taken from you even if you had a valid permit on you and were doing nothing wrong.

      You could beat the rap, but you won’t beat the ride. And you’ll meet some fascinating, diverse people in the holding cell you’ll be spending the night (or longer) in.

      That will be the reality of carrying where the local Gestapo doesn’t want you carrying…

      1. avatar HP says:

        NYC will most certainly never recognize reciprocity with anyone – pistol permits are actually given out quite frequently in the rest of the state, but permits issued outside of NYC aren’t valid for carrying in NYC. They will arrest out of towners (or people from upstate, for that matter). Yes, you’ll beat the rap, eventually. The only way to punish “the city” would then be to file a lawsuit because they violated your civil rights under federal law. Good luck.

        1. avatar Hannibal says:

          That’s exactly what they did with LEOSA. They got sued multiple times, lost each time, and eventually stopped… or at least stopped enough to stop being sued.

  4. avatar Vibce says:

    Those commie sacks of crap should be drafting bills written on toilet paper from Guantanamo.. Feinstein, brown, schumer are traitors and should be jailed!!!!!

  5. avatar Ilya says:

    Another thing to be mindful of is some states will ignore a national reciprocity law(NJ,NY,CA). Like they have the FOPA.

  6. avatar ATFAgentBob says:

    Well it appears as though we are given a Kobayashi Maru scenario here. Fix NICS will get rammed down our throats whether we like it or not either with or without Reciprocity… Best case we get Reciprocity and can kill off the NICS thing in court later worst case they split the bills again and we get screwed without so much as a free Waffle House dinner to show for it. Even if Republicans vote against it there are too many RINOs in Congress for NICS to fail. Gentlemen and ladies we have officially been sold up the river once again in the name of public safety, politics, and “freedom”. Like I keep saying these assholes will gladly sell us out for a shot at breaking into a new voting demographic.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobayashi_Maru

    1. avatar Scoutino says:

      Yes, we can get the NICS thing killed in courts. Right after Hughes’ amendment to the FOPA.

      1. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

        That is always the promise but never the reality.

  7. avatar Booger Hook says:

    Old news! That post was from 02DEC17. Google is your friend, Mr. Farago. Don’t get people all whipped up for no reason, or they won’t pay attention next time. HR4909 and S2135 are what we need to worry about now with regards to fix NICS. They’ll use the old “but it’s for the children!” line to get it done.
    Here is Rep. Massie’s latest video about the issue:
    http://www.freekentucky.com/tag/fix-nics/

    1. avatar B-Rad says:

      Yeah, what’s the deal with RF’s posts? If he’s the head of the 2nd caucus, that is not a good thing.

  8. avatar Lance Manion says:

    Since the NRA is willing to sue Florida over its violation of the constitutional rights of 18-20 year-olds, is the NRA going to come out and publicly change its rating of the RINOs who voted “yea” to D or F? Shouldn’t it?

  9. avatar stateisevil says:

    RF, you made me belly laugh! A Republican Strong Man is in with Republican Congress. All we gettin’ is more gun control son. GOP voters are sound asleep, not even playing defense, which they won’t be interested in til another Democrat threat.

  10. avatar BLAMMO says:

    The only thing about NICS that needs to be fixed is a simple and timely process for the buyer to resolve a hold or denial that comes back for an unknown or no apparent reason. Many FFLs will not do a transfer if there’s a hold and nothing more is heard, even if they can proceed after three days.

  11. avatar Mad Max says:

    “In my opinion, #5 is the biggest problem. The bill encourages administrative agencies, not the courts, to submit more names to a national database that will determine whether you can or can’t obtain a firearm.”

    Administrative agencies, in and if themselves, are a threat to liberty.

  12. avatar tdiinva says:

    Maybe we should just accept the fact that reciprocity isn’t going to happen because of the filibuster but that same rule will prevent an AR-15 ban. Call it a stalemate and kill both bills.

  13. avatar Hate CT says:

    Mitch McConnell wouldn’t bring reciprocity to a vote on its own. This is entirely his fault.

    1. avatar tdiinva says:

      He doesn’t have 60 votes in favor. You ought to learn how the legislative branch works.

      1. avatar Joe R. says:

        But everyone agrees he’s an fing worse than worthless deleterious piece of sh_t and all of KY deserves some un-lubricated Turkish prison chain ass rape for him. Right?

        FU, that was rhetorical.

        1. avatar tdiinva says:

          Let me translate your post into plain English for you: “I don’t squat about this.”

        2. avatar Joe R. says:

          You mean that the majority seat that he begged for won’t get us what he promised? He’s gotten a lot more, with s alot less, of what we didn’t want, and he’s been worse than worthless (therefore deleterious) in his support of the Conservative (R) and the President.

          Ya, I know all about it, and I’m sticking with my answer. F him, and F the stupid asses in KY that have f’d the country with him.

  14. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

    If the Constitution is the supreme law of the land,then We The People already have Constitutional carry and back round check system is UnConstitutional,then No to either and or.

    1. avatar tdiinva says:

      That is a good observation. The proper venue to adjudicate this is through the Courts. Take a page from the left and go judge shopping in a circuit that will uphold the lower court decision. If it is good for DACA and immigtation control it should be good fir the Second Amendment. Force the issue into the Supreme Court.

      The individual states can take action as well. Your state doesn’t recognize my State’s carry permit? Ok, our state doesn’t recognize your driver’s license. When one of your residents passes through or visits our state they will have stop at the welcome center and get a driver’s license.

      1. avatar Joe R. says:

        “That is a good observation. The proper venue to adjudicate this is through the Courts. ”

        If you can stomach that much half ass compromise you have too much experience swallowing something else.

        The proper venue to address this is standing over them while they’re sleeping.

        1. avatar tdiinva says:

          Grow up

        2. avatar Joe R. says:

          Wake up.

          That’s the venue they’ll use to ‘adjudicate’ you.

          Death to communists.

      2. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

        @ tdiinva

        ” Your state doesn’t recognize my State’s carry permit? Ok, our state doesn’t recognize your driver’s license. When one of your residents passes through or visits our state they will have stop at the welcome center and get a driver’s license.”

        I know what you meant by your comment,however in my case,my state recognizes every states citizens right to bear arms for their defense and the defense of others,we have since 1791 and before.

        If you come into Vermont’s borders,permit not needed Period,isn’t Liberty a grand thing however with it comes responsibility,I know it’s a foreign concept in todays day and age.

        1. avatar Mad Max says:

          Maybe the free states should stop recognizing the driver’s licenses from the slave states.

          No firearms reciprocity, no driver’s license reciprocity.

        2. avatar tdiinva says:

          Doesn’t Vermont have a “carry permit” so you can carry out of State? I believe Arizona issues one on request in recognition that most free States require a piece of paper or plastic?

        3. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

          Vermont does not have any form or kind of permit,never have,never will. Vermonters who want reciprocity usually go one of two ways a Florida or Utah permit.

          In the past thirty five years a movement has tried a hand full of times to legislatively enact a permit for the purpose of reciprocity,each time it has failed to gain traction and thus dies.

          The thought of Vermonters is Vermont and even before it was Vermont,has never had any for of permit,requiring permission from any magistrate or potentate to exercise their natural/civil right.
          If one wants to get a understanding of where that thought comes from below are some links.

          For a better understanding of Vermonters on arms here are a couple of links.

          Who are the Green Mountain Boys

          http://www.uvm.edu/~cemorse/Introducing%20VT%20Website/WHO%20ARE%20THE%20GREEN%20MOUNTAIN%20BOYS-web.html

          Vermont Constitution
          Article 16th. Right to bear arms; standing armies; military power

          That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State – and as standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; and that the military should be kept under strict subordination to and governed by the civil power.

          https://personalliberty.com/make-mistake-vermonts-proud-original-guns-everywhere-state/

          STATE v. ROSENTHAL
          http://www.guncite.com/court/state/55a610.html

          Vermont Concealed Carry Permit Information

          https://www.usacarry.com/vermont_concealed_carry_permit_information.html

        4. avatar uncommon_sense says:

          tdiinva,

          No, Vermont does not offer a concealed carry license for residents who want to carry in other states.

          The only option for Vermont residents is to get a non-resident license from popular states such as Utah. Unfortunately, that is of limited help because some states do not honor non-resident concealed carry licenses.

  15. avatar Joe R. says:

    Call your senators and congressmen to bifurcate the fix NICS legislation or you’ll vote / run against them and they won’t be allowed back in the state.

    Blue staters beware, you’ll get voted out of the human race.

  16. avatar ironicatbest says:

    Sure would be nice if they sent 625 million to combat poverty. But “they” won’t it would ruin “their” P.I.D. scheme

  17. avatar Joe R. says:

    Pelosi and Schumer need to be investigated for foreign ties and funding. They are getting paid $$$$$$$$$$$$$ (like Hillary and Obama) to do UN global-communism and they need the Julius & Ethel Rosenberg treatment.

    1. avatar Leroy Jenkins says:

      Isn’t Sunday the day you go to your rallies, is it raining out? those ponchos you normally wear come with a hat, and don’t you normally have a nice warm fire going, so you should be fine.

      1. avatar Joe R. says:

        Just bc you are POS (D) doesn’t mean you get to talk about it here. All the othe sh_t you said was projection.

        Kill a commie for mommy.

        1. avatar Leroy Jenkins says:

          I see you got back from your meeting. So that poncho thing you wear was fine.

        2. avatar Joe R. says:

          again. . .

          Projection

      2. avatar IdahoBoy says:

        Tinfoil under the poncho hat for even more protection.

        1. avatar Joe R. says:

          Projection glomming

  18. avatar Mark N. says:

    I am utterly confused by this post. HR 38 and HR 4477 were combined in the House and passed months ago and sent to the Senate. Neither Feinstein nor Schumer have anything to do with those (now combined) bills, other than any amendments they might propose in the Senate. In the Senate, there are two separate bills, both I believe by Cornyn (I know for sure that he proposed a FixNICS bill), and he has opposed combining the two Senate bills from the beginning. After the Florida mass shooting, his bill suddenly had a lot of co-sponsors, including Democrats, who most definitely want the bill to pass.

    The concealed carry reciprocity bill does not currently have enough votes (60) to avoid Democratic Party filibuster. Indeed, this is precisely why coupling the two bills appears to be the way to go, since FixNICS is destined to pass, reciprocity not so much; combining them means that the Democrats have to either allow passage of reciprocity or take the political hit for (ultimately) opposing FixNICS.

    1. avatar B-Rad says:

      Just more of RF showing off the depth of knowledge of the President of the 2nd Amendment Caucus.

    2. avatar Mort says:

      Um… yeah.

      House passed. This was a fight, yes, months ago. I imagine Farago knows this– but his intent is left to our speculation (as to why he’d point this out)… I surmise it’s, “Can you believe how sloppy this is?” Perhaps he will clarify.

      What’s a bit more alarming is… all the grr-wtf-grr comments, and only a person or two pointed this out. In simple, easy to grasp terms, the current fight is, basically: DemsSenators want to pass Fix NiCS, but do not want it married to Natl Reciprocity, as it was done in the House of Reps (“Congress”). And certain GOP champions of the NatlRecip bill are saying, “See it worked so well in the House, let’s get this passed in tandem in the Senate and send it to the Pres.” Dems swear they will filibuster. 2A People seem to be split on whether Natl Reciprocity is worth the severe flaws of the Fix NiCS, but some figure, since that is likely to be passed somehow anyway, why not at least get a win.

      I suspect that the argument goes like this, since there is a “tangential common sense” connection between Fix NiCS and Natl Reciprocity: If folks are worried that Nat Recip forces states to kowtow to “the lowest standards,” than there is at least some comfort in “ensuring” that people who are suitable to purchase or carry firearms will be more likely to be denied a gun or permit, nationwide. It’s dubious bunk, but I can see politicians spinning it that way.

      And, on top of all this… the crazy worry now has to be: EVEN IF Natl Reciprocity manages to sneak through the Senate because of a tandem with Fix NiCS like what happened in the House (although it woulda passed there without Fix NiCS, likely)– there is no guarantee that Trump won’t veto National Reciprocity. He expressed support for it in the past, but at thee infamous “I’m on drugs” NRA meeting, he seemed to poo-poo the idea of Reciprocity a couple times.

      Either way… I am no longer holding my breath or hopes up. These fkn people are not going to learn until more of us become single-issue “any doubt and you’re OUT” voters for 2A.

      Weird, disorienting post, though.

      1. avatar Mort says:

        oops… “aren’t suitable” to purchase or carry… of course. Typo.

  19. avatar Hannibal says:

    This is a non-issue, the democrats will not let reciprocity pass in the current environment (i.e. they think they’re winning… and they are).

  20. avatar Some dude says:

    Anyone who thinks National Reciprocity isn’t just more Federal gun control and that it won’t, ultimately, lead to more oppressive requirements for State carry licensing is fooling themselves. Just because something smells good today, doesn’t mean it won’t be the shits tomorrow. Look at CDL’s…

    1. avatar Mort says:

      This silly, confused argument has been debunked so many times by now, I am amazed that people still cling to it. Maybe because it’s easier than understanding the obvious.

      There is no language in the Natl Recip bill that allows for anything like you suggest. This bill has the potential to end gun control for a generation, by normalizing and mainstreaming EDC gun carriers across the USA– by putting live human beings with guns next to people who think the world will end if someone with a gun violates their safe space. It’s the declaration that the Emperor is naked. Each state already has its requirements… so what if one state makes it stricter? That is between you and your state reps– do your part.

      If California makes it stricter, mmkay… then what? They still have to honor an Arizona permit, and Arizona will set its own standards. But, indeed, as we must follow Cali traffic laws, so must we follow their carry laws– to whatever degree not specifically noted in the bill. But nobody has convincingly argued exactly how this inconvenience can translate into a “national gun permit,” or “national gun registry,” or “federal permit requirement” …just, “omg gun control its ONE step away!!” The arguments against National Reciprocity have thus far been crying wolf, AND inestimably aiding antigun gun control proponents. (Thanks a lot, btw.)

      Almost 30 years of CCW history has definitively displayed: where CCW permits become the law, efforts for Constitutional Carry eventually follow (and often succeed). Because people get used to it, permitted guns in public, and they don’t fear it anymore (…normal reasonable people– antigun idiots will always be hysterical). YES, gun permits and CCW permits are gun control– Yes yes yes. The 2A should protect Constitutional Carry across the land… indeed it should. But that is not realistic in a divided country. Trying to achieve it by mainstreaming and normalizing 17 million carriers through National Reciprocity is realistic. We must take this step.

      Reciprocity is just that, reciprocity, not “federal gun permits”– read the bill. States must honor other states’ CCW permits. That is it. It’s darn simple. Slippery slope does not apply here.

      So, please… stop spreading the ignorance. Just read the bill, and argue your case cogently for HOW this could ever become a federal gun permit. As for the notion that we are “stripping away states’ rights” stuff, well… the Bill of Rights trumps all states. That is why we love the 2A in the first place.

      Thanks for reading. Sorry there is nothing in the Bill of Rights enumerated about CDLs. Be safe.

  21. avatar Yitz says:

    As a captive of NYC, anything that gets concealed carry to my neck of the woods is worth it, even with the NICS-Fix attached…

  22. avatar J says:

    Please help save our 2nd Amendment rights. The Whitehouse.gov petition web site has a lot of pro-2nd Amendment petitions that need people to view and sign if possible. Look at these and decide which to sign. There are too many to link here.

    A lot of anti-2nd Amendment petitions are post there also.

    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/oppose-gun-control-and-weapons-ban-legislation

    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov

  23. avatar raptor jesus says:

    I’m fine with including Fix NICS with Reciprocity – it seems like the only practical way to get reciprocity through, and frankly, NICS needs to be fixed.

    1. avatar Joe R. says:

      You’re not even from here.

  24. avatar American Patriot says:

    This is old news, why is this coming up as new Again????

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