Question of the Day: What Should Society Do to Stop School Shooters?

Grief counseling at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School (courtesy

Antis gotta anti. So when a school shooter unleashes homicidal fury, the forces of civilian disarmament waste no time waving the bloody shirt for gun control. Laws that would have done nothing — zip, zero, nada, niente, rien — to stop the slaughter. To be charitable, their heart is in the right place. They don’t want to see children mowed down by gunmen. A goal gun owners share. So . . .

What ONE THING should society do to reduce or eliminate the threat of an active shooter on a school campus?

If you have the time, check out the NRA’s School Shield report. It was ignored by the media and the educational community, but it was a first-class examination of the ballistic threat to our children and what we could do about it. [Click here to read. Click here for the summary.]


  1. avatar Macofjack says:

    After what the FBI just released, clean house at the FBI!

    1. avatar Blarry says:

      Disband the department of education. Think about it. If these shooting keep happening at schools, get rid of schools.

    2. avatar Anonymous says:

      Teach your kids values, morals, and principles. Teach your kids empathy and compassion for the tragedy of life that we all must endure. Teach them to respect elders, their teachers, family, and other students.

      Otherwise, there will inevitably be individuals that fall into the depth of despair, hatred, and live a tortured existence where they come to the conclusion that existential being itself is the enemy to be destroyed, and they hate everything and everyone, and they will murder a bunch of random people they don’t even know, and then they’ll say, “look how much I care about it. Let me show you how much I care about it.” Then they’ll finish themselves off as well.

      They need to be taught not that life has value, but why life has value.

      1. avatar Steven Marsh says:

        Congratulations, you are headed in the right direction. It is time for parents to take charge of their children. Teach them the moral law and teach them respect of others and others property. Teach them that reward from others does not always comes from doing the right thing, although praise once in a while is a good thing but every one getting a trophy win or lose is not to be expected. Life has it’s ups and downs and to experience both is a good thing, it develops character . Love your children and set a good example for them. Teach to never cheat for it damages the concisence. Some times success coms your way some times failure. Thats life.

    3. avatar Steven Marsh says:

      You know our society is kind of screwed up.We have these young male children being cared for by females most of their school life mainly because dad is not there or is busy trying to make the family living. He has very little time to influence the up bringing of these boys. So, the child’s life is guided by the view of a female which is fine for girls. but a mans influence is needed to help shape the boys concept of adult life. The ladies are trying as best they can and are doing the best they can do. Fathers you need to step up to your responsibilities and give your sons the male perspective in facing the challenges of life. Set a good example on how to live a respectable life.

  2. avatar pwrserge says:

    Stop feminizing troubled kids. The way you deal with bullies is stand back and let them fight it out. Encourage kids to stand up to them. I can tell you for a fact that nobody dared try anything after I broke the first bully’s nose.

    1. avatar Kendahl says:

      That doesn’t work if the victim is far inferior physically to the bully. The victim doesn’t always have to win the fight. But he does need to do enough damage that the bully decides the pain exceeds the pleasure. A protector among the student body (e.g. sibling or friend) would work, too. Otherwise, it’s the responsibility of the school to provide the necessary protection at the bully’s expense.

      1. avatar pwrserge says:

        In my experience, bullies very rarely tend to be “far superior” to the people they pick on. People with real strength don’t feel the need to demonstrate it by abusing the weak.

      2. avatar Southern Cross says:

        The other problem is bullies tend to have friends hanging around with them. Any effort against the bully will result in a beatdown from the bully AND their friends.

    2. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

      And stop medicating them to make them compliant with female teachers’ demands for female ideas of good behavior.

      10 years ago, I had neighbors who were parents of a young man who was a bundle of energy. He wanted to run up and down mountains and be outdoors. Didn’t matter the weather. Didn’t matter the season. Didn’t matter which mountains, where or why. He wanted to be outdoors.

      Putting this kid in a classroom for 6+ hours a day was like trying to cage a whirlwind.

      When he wouldn’t sit still, the teachers recommended that he be put on ADHD drugs – to “calm him down.”

      Parents ended up pulling him out of school and homeschooling him, rather than allow the school to force him onto drug “therapies.”

      In hindsight, this turned out to be a smart move. The kid is now off at college, and is an exemplary student. He can still hike all four legs off a mountain goat. He just needs to be physically active, not a mumbling drone in a seat, listening to a lecture. Today’s school systems have nothing to offer a kid like this.

      1. avatar pwrserge says:

        Agreed. Giving psychiatric medication to a minor failing EXTREME cause should be a felony.

      2. avatar strych9 says:

        A common problem.

        Another common problem, which is related, is that teachers often attend weekend seminars on ADD/ADHD and then come back thinking they know everything on the topic and are basically an MD. Ask me how I know.

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          It was a slight problem back in the 90s, much more so today. The best thing that happened to me was the refusal of my parents to put me on any sort of meds after the first fight I got into. Instead, they got me more involved in athletics. Fencing, lacrosse, systema, etc… Never got into trouble agains once the bullies knew that I wouldn’t just sit back and take their abuse and had an outlet for my energy. Most parents these days lack the backbone to actually stand up for their sons.

        2. avatar strych9 says:

          My problem was that the lady who taught 2nd grade for me was the one who started this bullshit. She, unfortunately had A LOT of pull due to the fact that she was married to the superintendent.

          My doctor resisted for months. Finally, the last week (or maybe two weeks) of school that year he gave me the lowest dose of Ritalin that was available and took me off it as soon as the year was over. She was placated to some degree. I never had any more “problems” requiring such a “medication” but, as I found out later on, that shit being in your medical records can haunt you for a long, long time.

          My parents yanked me out of that school for the following year and home schooled me because of the shit that lady continued to pull.

        3. avatar pwrserge says:

          Yeah… That sucks… In retrospect, I greatly enjoy the mental image of some junior-college reject telling two full professors of bio-physiology about the “benefits” of mind altering drugs for their teenage son. The language that came out of my mother’s mouth was epic. Quite frankly, the pool hack was lucky she didn’t speak Russian.

        4. avatar strych9 says:

          Based on your personality I bet mama serge is probably an interesting person until you get her riled up at which point I’m certain she’s an interesting person so long as you’re a bystander and not the object of her ire.

          But yeah, heh, it’s um… interesting to see who gets teaching certs and how schools of education recruit. Since his days in grad school my dad has held firmly to the conviction that if you want to improve the US educational system step one is burning down schools of education.

        5. avatar pwrserge says:

          Yeah… If you want to hear Russian snark, ask my mother what the though of my senior year high school principal. That particular hack insisted on being called “Doctor” despite the fact that her PhD was, I kid you not, in home economics. This will be coming from a woman who defended her PhD dissertation at about the same age where I got my BME.

        6. avatar strych9 says:

          LOL school admins are always ready to tell you how awesome they are.

          I wasn’t aware that you could even get a PhD in Home Economics. She must have been very, very proud of herself.

        7. avatar Bill B says:

          Yup, in the mid-90s a second grade teacher tried to label my son ADHD, because she was, after all, the teacher and therefore an expert.
          Took him to the doctor at the ‘request’ of the principal. Guess what. No ADHD, no nothing, just a normal kid.
          We made the last few months of the teacher’s school year as difficult as possible with special request for any and everything we could think of.
          The following school year, she came back as a kindergarten teacher. The year after that she was gone.

      3. avatar Mark N. says:

        I have one of those. If he isn’t outside running, biking, hiking, skiing, whatever, he just gets all wired up. But he’s very smart and a very good worker.

      4. avatar Cliff H says:

        I keep hearing the same old tired response of getting psychiatric help for these kids/people.

        I seem to recall the old “joke” defining mental illness as doing the same thing over and over again but each time expecting a different result.

        And each time, time after time, we hear about these shooters having been examined, treated, evaluated, medicated by “Mental Health Professionals”, but they then go on to become mass murderers. Why can’t people see the obvious that these self-proclaimed “Mental Health Professionals” have no clue what they are doing or what to do about these sorts of people.

        Psychiatry, psychology and psychotropic drugs are NOT THE SOLUTION.

      5. avatar Button Gwinnett says:

        And the Educrats would have you believe that one size fits all in the public schools, because Diversity means Egalitarian.
        Don’t get me started…

    3. avatar Garrison Hall says:

      Agreed. You hit bullies head-on. I grew up a neck-kid and starting about about age 7 the lessons from my dad was that you always stood up to bullies. I was a skinny little kid, didn’t have a lot of friends and had “victim” written all over me. My red-neck upbringing taught be differently, however. The school bully was a full head taller than I was but this didn’t matter much when I hit him ‘upside the head with that 2in thick tree-branch. Standing up to that bully was a life changing experience. I learned to always fight back. I also learned to never give a bully a even break. Rather than teaching passivity, schools need to teach kids to fight-back, to take care of themselves. If that school had been armed, with kids who were prepared to fight back if attacked, things would have been much different.

    4. avatar ozzallos says:

      FLAME DELETED Letting the bully have his way is exactly what creates these kids. They get stepped on, repressed and have no reasonable outlet for their emotions. Their self-worth becomes shit and they become unhealthy social outcasts. Eventually somebody is going to get tired of that shit, and what’s the best tool to make equals out of a physical/psychological bully/group? Parents can do a lot, but your kid is gone for 6-8 hours a day. That’s a lot of damage to fix.

      The answer becomes screw you and all of you that enabled it. Florida is the result.

      1. avatar pwrserge says:

        The whole point is that the feminazis are letting the bullies have their way. I only had to break one nose to get bullies to leave me alone for four years. Spending a week out of class (for both of us, I might add) with my parents glowering at me was totally worth it. These days, we’d be spending weeks on “mediation” while the bully continues to make the kid’s life a living hell. This is what happens when you feminize men. They go straight from taking it up the fourth point of contact to “let’s kill a bunch of people”. The whole point of letting boys be boys is to teach them that there is a spectrum of appropriate responses and that certain amounts of force are most definitely on that spectrum.

        1. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

          When I stood up to a bully (read stab repeatedly as he ran away from me) as a little kid, the bully got chastised by the teacher.

  3. avatar Joe R. says:

    Throw some sand into their lubricant.

    It won’t stop them, but it might slow down their jerking off.

    They should admit that, AS LONG AS THERE ARE SCHOOLS, that they have put kids inside a big soft target, AND THEY CAN’T PROTECT THE KIDS.

    They should be made to admit that, anything else is mental-masturbation and LYING.

  4. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

    Repeal g un free zones, let permit holders carry.

    1. avatar Felix says:

      My thoughts too.

      Kids shoot up their schools for two reasons: it’s their school (how many kids have shot up some other school?), and they know from experience it is an easy target.

      If even 1/10 the teachers carried, most prospective school shooters would go elsewhere.

      The other big help would be full school vouchers. Stop tying kids to the school closest to them. If kids (and/or parents) could choose schools they liked, rather than being conscripted to the geographically closest one, they just might feel like it was actually *their* school, not just some generic jail.

      There’s also this ridiculous drive to force kids to go to college. Some states and/or school districts have said they will not hand out diplomas to graduates who don’t list college as their post-graduation plan. There is no allowance for those kids who are not college material, and especially none for the millions of kids who do quite fine with jobs right out of high school. There is no allowance for apprenticeship any more, or working in the family business, or anything but college, and I’d bet 90% of college graduates would be better off having spent four years in a job instead of piling up student loan debts.

      1. avatar Jonathan-Houston says:

        You’re right, it’s unusual, but sometimes killers do shoot up schools they don’t attend or have no connection to.

        In 1979, 16 year old Brenda Spencer committed a sniper attack at Cleveland Elementary School in San Diego. In 1988, Laurie Dann, age 30, shot young children in Hubbard Woods Elementary School in Winnetka, Illinois. At Penn State University in 1996, 19-year-old Jillian Spencer, who was trained in the Army Reserve as a sharpshooter, opened fire on random students.

        The Brenda Spencer case is a trick, sort of. She was in high school at the time, but she had attended that elementary school as a small child.

        I never heard definitively whether the Sandy Hook killer had ever actually attended that school. I heard rumors to that effect in the immediate aftermath, and that his mother has once been a teacher there, but I never read anything official on those points. So I don’t know.

      2. avatar Garrison Hall says:

        And colleges and universities, even highly respected ones, are gradually lowering their standards so that under-educated or largely uneducated students—most of whom are minorities—can have an easier path to graduation. Professors who dare to criticize the shoddy work of these snowflakes are accused of micro-aggression and forced to take sensitivity training.

      3. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

        “I’d bet 90% of college graduates would be better off having spent four years in a job instead of piling up student loan debts.”

        If I was magically transported back to when I was 16, I would drop out of high school, get my GED, a two year degree, a few connections, and be retired hunting and fishing just about everyday by now. I’m not even close to retirement age.

  5. avatar Ralph says:

    “To be charitable, their heart is in the right place. They don’t want to see children mowed down by gunmen.”

    Yeah, sure, and the Nazis didn’t want to see the Reichstag burn down.

  6. avatar Sal Chichon says:

    How about taking male mental health needs seriously. We spend all this money, time, and societal emotional investment on women, and forget the group most prone to cracking, is the group with tbe most pressure on then. I am not saying we molly-coddle males. I would hate that for myself. What I am saying is that we remember that males and females are different, and that feminizing the world around males hurts them. Positive interaction with males in authority positions, like mentors, would also help instead of just dealing with the police in a confrontational format.

    We are failing our young men, and they are letting us know in no uncertain terms.

    1. avatar Hippi says:

      “We are a generation of men raised by women”

  7. avatar Denton says:

    Make it illegal to publish the shooter’s name and likeness. Remove the incentive for fame that drives these guys.

    1. avatar RandallOfLegend says:

      Then the tinfoil hatters will cry false flag operations.

    2. avatar Dave says:

      Tread on 1A. Brilliant.

    3. avatar Mister Fleas says:

      The news media’s coverage of these massacres inspires more massacres.

      “I have repeatedly told CNN and our other media: If you don’t want to propogate more mass murders, don’t start the story with sirens blaring. Don’t have photographs of the killer. Don’t make this 24/7 coverage. Do everything you can not to make the body count the lead story. Do localize this story to the affected community and make it as boring as possible in every other market.” -Paul Dietz, forensic psychologist who has extensively studied mass shootings

      The news media broken every one of these rules.

      1. avatar Lee Dixon says:

        Taking away the power and importance that the coverage gives would take most of the wind out of these impotent cowards sails.

  8. avatar Aaron says:

    actually, it’s easy:
    1 – arm qualified teachers. on college campi, allow lawful ccw.
    2 – identify and institutionalize dangerous nutbags. they ALWAYS give signs before the deed.
    3 – have a system where dangerous nutbags, with proper due process, get reported to NICS ( the VA Tech shooter was found by a judge to be mentally a danger to himself and others, but due to privacy laws in VA that didn’t make it to NICS).

    it’s critical to note that, according to a security briefing i received, data shows about 90% of all mass shootings occur in “gun free” zones.

    1. avatar paul says:

      I’m not in love with any of these solutions. CCW permit holders have a plan to defend themselves not everybody else. In order to work, all armed security needs to be aware of each other and what their roles are.
      We live in a free (mostly anyway) society so locking up “nutbags”, however that is defined, is not a good solution. Ditto for number 3.

      1. avatar Aaron says:

        bullshit. i’ m not talking about institutionalizing every person with a mental health issue. free doesn’t apply to people adjudicated to be a danger to themselves or others. we used to institutionalize those people, for their safety and ours.

        1. avatar Extractor says:

          Hell if you want to throw into prison every gun owner who shows signs of being or becoming unhinged then there goes 95% of TTAG’s commenters.

          Just saying since I’m one of the 5%.

    2. avatar FlaBoy says:

      Adding to Aaron’s post, based on Israel’s example:
      4. Fence around schools with controlled, guarded entrances. Should have vehicle barriers, as well, to prevent car/truck driving through fence (which happened not too long ago at an elementary school playground here in the U.S.).
      5. Armed, trained guards at access points and patrolling area & school.
      The picture that has circulated showing a “teacher” carrying a rifle with elementary school children on an outing was miss-identified. Many actual Israels have pointed out that she was not a teacher but probably an armed guard. (Still, it is a “good guy” with a gun to stop the bad guys).

      1. avatar anarchyst says:

        We already have them…they’re called “prisons”

    3. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      I like Aaron’s solution.

  9. avatar paul says:

    Two words; soft target. Simply, although no panacea, we must harden schools with armed security. But not just armed patrols, security needs to to be engaged in the process and they have to have some sort of operational plan. No LEO uniforms either but I’m not suggesting they shouldn’t open carry.
    No easy task I admit as some of these schools are massive. Also, the Parkland shooting was 6 minutes long in total so armed security really better be on top of their game

    1. avatar FlaBoy says:

      Agree with Paul, except I’d recommend the fence with limited entrances, with a uniformed officer or guard at the entrance. Again…the Israel example.

  10. avatar Michael S. says:

    1. You can’t.

    2. As a former educator, I can tell you you’re going to have to harden the inside of the schools with armed teachers to prevent, deter, and reduce casualties in school shootings. One school resource officer, armed with a handgun and a taser, isn’t going to stop a threat in a timely fashion in a school designed for more than 1,000 students. There are too many entrance points, too many hallways, and too many ways for a determined person to get a gun in the school. You can harden the outside all you want, but someone will find a way to get into – or, as we saw here, get kids out of – the facility.

    1. avatar Aaron says:

      sure you can stop them. or the vast majority at least. they ALWAYS gve signs of their intentions. and i agree about arming teachers, but since many teachers are foaming-at-the-mouth, hostile libtards we need to screen them extra carefully.

      1. avatar Michael S. says:

        Depends on where you are. My wife is still in the education field, and libs are the minority at her school. I’m in GA, near two military bases, in a non-metro county. That probably has something to do with it…

    2. avatar FlaBoy says:

      Nice to have someone with actual educational experience comment. My approach is like many others, I suspect, which is as a parent with children in the school. But to Michael S. I would again, as I’ve already done, say, “look at the Israel experience.” We are trying to come up with ideas, some of which may work and others not work. Better to take a look at what other’s have shown actually does work as intended.

    3. avatar strych9 says:

      See this is where I start to wonder.

      I moved in between my my Junior and Senior years of HS. The school I attended my Senior year was kind of a mindfuck for me because it was HUGE, I mean a city block+ in area. There were a zillion points of ingress for someone who wanted to do harm (which also made ditching class pretty easy if one was so inclined) as well at at least a dozen places for vehicles to enter and exit. Anyone who wanted to could easily just walk on or off campus.

      The school’s answer was pretty simple: guards. Some were openly armed, some were not but there were at least a dozen of them on duty at any one time (that I noticed anyway). A DOZEN. Probably more that I didn’t see.

      Now, granted with the way the place was built/designed taking up a city block with an arroyo and a public walking path right through the center and literally dozens of holes cut in various fences (by kids who wanted to ditch class) a dozen wasn’t enough to cover everything but it’s 6x what the school in FL had…

      1. avatar Michael S. says:

        The big issue with big schools is they have to be able to empty quickly in the event of a fire. Big, wide hallways to carry them out. Big, wide doors at both ends, and extras so many yards in between, to get them out. Someone is always propping doors open just enough to not latch, not making sure it latchea behind them, etc.

        It’s common for hallways at medium sized schools to be over 300 yards long. Think about that. Now think about trying to hit someone, who is shooting at you with an AR15, with a handgun from 300 yards.

        1. avatar strych9 says:

          The school I’m talking about was a bunch of buildings with a ton of wide open spaces full of trees and scrub grass. It would have been worse than your “hallway scenario” if someone bothered to put on a ghillie and have some glass on their rifle. It would have taken, back in the heady days of ’02, forever to find them.

          But that’s not the point. You can “what if” any security to death and find holes in it. You simply cannot “stop” this kind of thing nor can you come up with perfect security that stops the attack in it’s tracks. There are always going to be holes that can be exploited or even stumbled into.

          Look at the 2007 attack on Coalition Provincial Joint Security Station in Karbala, Iraq. This was a fortified compound with 30 US troops and dozens of Iraqi security guys defending it (Iraqi Security forces basically ran away, so we can kinda discount them). It was attacked with the specific intention of taking US personnel hostage and it was basically a success (taking four US hostages, though they were shot along side a road not long after which apparently was not part of the original plan).

          The overall results of that attack were eight US casualties, three wounded and five dead with no casualties for the attackers. So, if a bunch of insurgents in Iraq (to be fair, they were probably trained by Iran) can attack a Joint Security Station guarded by no less than 30 US military personnel and get away with hostages while taking no casualties and inflicting something on the order of 26% casualties on trained US forces I’d say the chances we can have perfect security at a US school is about 0.0%.

          Surprise is one hell of a weapon.

        2. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

          “Someone is always propping doors open just enough to not latch, not making sure it latchea behind them, etc.” – You could have alarms on all the “extra” emergency exit doors.

  11. avatar Some dude says:

    Post schools with LEO’s in numbers somewhere in the range between the number that would be posted at any 3000 person public event and the number posted in any 3000 inmate prison. i.e. More than one.

    1. avatar FlaBoy says:

      Using police officers might not be as good as using trained armed guards who specialize in school protection. Most police officers will be bored stiff and are more likely to overreact to student discipline issues (note the stories of students body slammed, elementary kids in handcuffs, etc). Already this year there have been incidents where young students have accidentally discharged police officers guns in schools – one kid was only in third grade. Many police appropriate holsters are not safe enough around crowds of inquisitive kids. Armed guards for schools could have more appropriate training and more appropriate equipment and be specifically present for protection, not “other duties” like discipline issues, enforcing our myriad of laws, etc.. Have the guards guard and let the police handle the latter issues.

  12. avatar Aaron says:

    “gun free” zones are like bait for spree killers.

  13. avatar Gman says:

    Liberal socialism opened Pandora’s Box on this one. In the short term, arm up. In the long term, bring back God, family, and proper parenting. Put loony liberals in jail for life for they are destroying all that is good in the world.

    1. avatar Dave says:

      Which God, and how do you mean “bring back” when Gods have always been available in churches, mosques, and temples of every denomination?

  14. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

    This isn’t rocket science folks.

    There are kids you can see are headed for trouble, and often you can see it coming from a long ways off. This is one of those cases.

    The first part of the problem is that schools want to “socially promote” kids, “up and out” – to maintain their stats. They don’t want to intervene in cases where people can see there are problems, because the problems begin at home, and schools don’t want to get involved in that situation.

    The second part of the problem in dealing with troubled young men is that today’s feminized culture wants to just “talk” about their problems – instead of DOING something about their problems.

    Local law enforcement was called to this kid’s home so many times since 2010, Dunkin’ Donuts should have set up a kiosk in the kid’s driveway. People knew there was a problem here.

    1. avatar Aaron says:

      i agree. dangerous nutbags are pretty identifiable. the only ine i’m aware who hasn’t been reported as having obvious signs is the las vegas shooter, and i think that’s because almost nothng has actually been released about him.

    2. avatar strych9 says:

      “The second part of the problem in dealing with troubled young men is that today’s feminized culture wants to just “talk” about their problems…”

      Interestingly 90% of the problem is wanting to “talk” about problems that are not problems but rather just normal growing pains.

      Guys have certain needs when it comes to life in general and physical activity is usually one of them. There’s an old Eddie Izzard skit where he talks about this and, in an odd sort of way, nails it. He says (close paraphrase) “I wish puberty was just a one day thing. You go to school with a kinda screechy voice and come home saying ‘Well, I’m gonna go get a job that involves a power drill!'”

      He’s right to some extent. Guys generally wanna build stuff, destroy stuff, test themselves against other guys, run, hike, fish, use a knife etc. and they need an outlet for that creative/destructive energy. “Talking” isn’t that outlet. There’s nothing wrong with analyzing Hamlet or studying poetry (in fact these are VERY useful things to do) but you need to basically say to young men “OK guys, we’re gonna talk about Hamlet for an hour and then we’re gonna go lift some weights and hit the mats. Then we’ll come back to some more intellectual stuff”.

      Even at 33 there’s something zen about going to BJJ and rolling as hard as I can against someone else. My wife doesn’t really get how that can be zen but it is. If I’m sick and I miss a week or two of BJJ due to that I get grumpy as fuck.

      1. avatar Geoff PR says:

        “If I’m sick and I miss a week or two of BJJ due to that I get grumpy as fuck.”

        Oh, yeah. I actually get physical symptoms if I’m away from riding my bike more than a few days. I get kinda anxious and my legs get this weird ‘crawly’ sensation in them as if they are saying “Use me, dammit!” to me…

  15. avatar Joseph Quixote says:

    “Society” should focus on the brokenness of families. “Society” should eliminate abortion as a “choice.” 55 million children killed and we add to that grim statistic every single day. You think 17 kids is bad? I would agree with you. How about try on the 3000 that are killed every day in our abortion mills. Our culture is every bit as bad as what is described in 2 Kings. When we turn away from God, all bets are off. Removing even the hint of God from government schools sure has turned out nice hasn’t it? Things are going to get much much worse before people realize that going against basic morals always turns out horrible for the country or culture that does so. The school shooters are just a sign of the times, they are a visible symbol of the sickness of our once great republic.
    I know a bunch of you will simply tune me out and say I am a religious nut but I think the proof is in the brokenness all around us. Until people wake up (which in my opinion won’t be in any of our lifetimes) at least let teachers be armed.

  16. avatar Josh in va says:

    Fix the mental health system! My best example is my wife, she has a degenerative brain disease and has been deemed a high risk for violence. Our kids are not allowed to be alone with her. I have to have a place to escape and barricade myself and also sleep in a safe place away from her. I cannot put her in a nursing home due to the potential violence and a psychiatric hospital won’t take her until she has acted out in a significant way.

  17. avatar Jack Moore says:

    1. People have run simulations with simunitions, etc. and found the best way to defend a school is with a resource officer (real armed cop) and a few concealed carrying teachers. That needs to be the standard. Our latest school shooting on Colorado resulted in exactly one student shot before the resource officer killed the shooter. Children are required to be in government schools, the government should be required to protect them.

    2. The media needs to stop saying the names of these people. There is a segment of society that wants to be infamous and society has to say shooting up a school is not a way to accomplish that.

    3. Democrat politicians need to stop treating mass shooting like they are gun control Christmas. Most of these guys are leftists, the guy at the school in Aurora and the cop in LA were frothing gun control FANATICS, the guy at the church in TX was antifa. Don’t tell me sticking it to the NRA doesn’t enter into these peoples minds.

  18. avatar strych9 says:

    You can’t stop it. Our fascination with immortalizing these fucktards has already passed critical mass.

    As other people have noted here and elsewhere guns have been readily available for a long time. In fact, 40 years ago they were more readily available than they are today yet, while not unheard of, mass killings were generally less common than they are today. Personally I think that’s mostly due to media attention. I mean, just check Fox’s website. It’s covered in pictures of this guy and splashed with tabloid headlines about everything from “timeline of the attack” to… well damn, pretty much everything else about this.

    So, back to the question: What you can do is limit the damage these assholes do. There are a lot of ways to do that, mostly security/defense “in depth” type stuff that gets too long to get into in a post here. The real question is how to balance that against other things like not pissing off parents who have busy lives and won’t want to sit at a checkpoint waiting to get checked to go pick up their kid.

    1. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

      “In fact, 40 years ago they were more readily available than they are today yet, while not unheard of, mass killings were generally less common than they are today.” – Do you have a cite for that? I read that we have just as many mass shootings today as we did 30 years ago. I read that on not so pro-gun politico, and, since it goes against the cites agenda, I believe it.

  19. avatar Mike B in WI says:

    Hey RF, those pdfs for the NRA School Shield program don’t seem to be available from the web site.

  20. avatar JoeLiberty says:

    Maybe media outets [cough, TTAG, cough] should top publishing the killers goddamn name every place. You think making them famous helps?

  21. avatar C.S. says:

    We could exclude only women from gun free zone laws and allow women to carry, but that might be discrimination…

  22. avatar A Brit in TX says:

    Stop handing out psych meds like candy. Big Pharma promotes these via schools (compliant kids needed!!), doctors, the government (kids on these meds mean that many families obtain benefits) & a compliant media (big pharma are big advertisers). Cocktails of these drugs causes all sorts of side effects in still-developing minds. Coming off them can also be as bad.

    Schools now do not discipline, report or help troubled students. In fact Broward school district recently enacted a policy of not reporting miscreants. This is a very liberal ‘social justice’ type of policy and leads to kids falling through the cracks.

    Social media alienates and enables bullying to continue well outside of school hours. Not sure what can be done but parents should ensure their kids are participating in activities rather than glued to electronic devices.

    These killers names are plastered all over the place by the breathless click baiting media. There shouldn’t be any cover-ups (Las Vegas???!!!) but apparently it has been proven that a lot of these nutjobs crave some sort of fame and attention. Copycat killings are a proven thing.

    Obtaining mental health help shouldn’t result in your ‘permanent file’ being affected. There is the perception that once you have sought help, this will affect your future prospects of obtaining a job, passing a background check etc. Simple mental health measures should be thought of like getting a flu shot. However, severe mental problems should be reported to NICS & previously shuttered mental health facilities re-opened. Care in the community for dangerous mental health cases should not be an option.

    My last point no doubt will be controversial. Raise the minimum age to purchase and own a long gun to 21, as for handguns (am donning flame proof suit!!). A lot of peoples brains are still developing in the late teens, especially in the modern world of ‘everyone’s a winner’ & ‘feelz’. Personally I don’t think that we should be ceding any gun rights but what are peoples thoughts as to this point? Cheers!

  23. avatar Texican says:

    Home school. Solves all the problems and has more benefits. The best way to avoid a mass school shooting is to not be there. Who says government should indoctrinate our children?

    1. avatar Jon in CO says:

      This is my libertarian stance on the issue. Take care of your own. We’ve survived as a species long enough without indoctrination at all levels. The economic issue with these logistics is another issue, but can be fixed.

    2. avatar Mister Fleas says:

      “Home school. Solves all the problems and has more benefits.”

      Yep. Generally speaking, homeschooled students have greater satisfaction in life, are more socialized, and far better educated. There are also more likely to complete college.

  24. avatar CAM says:

    Like most problems its a lot of things combined, like:
    Social Media – gives nuts a platform
    Mass Media – makes them famous (infamous)
    End of Common Respect and Courtesy in our Society (when I grew up we respected, and yes, FEARED our elders — not anymore)
    Soft Targets (gun-free zones)
    Less funding (since the 1980’s) for Mental Health care
    No one solution will solve these problems, and certainly taking guns away from citizens is not the answer

  25. avatar Parnell says:

    My son is a Chemistry teacher at a suburban NJ high school. He and four other teachers have approached the school board that they would be willing to train and carry in school if the board could get the state to agree to issuing CCW’s. This is the solution. Other than training there would be no cost and the children would be safer,

    1. avatar A Brit in TX says:

      Good luck with that but in NJ I would say there is absolutely no chance of them getting whatever approval is required. Keep us informed though!

    2. avatar SouthernShooter says:

      New Jersey?!?! Yeah, right, fat chance of that happening!

  26. avatar Oh noes says:

    Q: “what can society do to stop school shootings”
    A: Easy, allow Licensed concealed pistol carriers into Gun free zones. We’ve been Back ground checked, finger printed, and vetted. WE CAN BE TRUSTED!!!!!! to safely carry a firearm.
    A: Let School administrators (office staff and teachers) who have concealed pistol licenses CARRY THEIR PISTOL AT THEIR WORKPLACE!!!!!!! Let All safe handling and storage procedures be followed to ensure there are NO negligent discharges, brandishing or the firearm doesn’t get into a students hands. <(Obligatory warning for the jack wagons that bitch about safety, blah, blah, blah). Fuck, I shouldn't even have to say it.

  27. avatar anarchyst says:

    I sent this to my local radio talk show host who has it “all wrong”…


    I must take issue over your conversation with your guest, and your (apparent) attitude toward an inanimate object–the AR-15. You, of all people, who I respect, should know better.

    You are sadly misinformed, calling AR-15 type rifles “high power”. AR-15 rifles are “medium power”–NOT “high power”, as you and your guest have asserted. In fact, they are not permitted to be used for deer hunting in most states. AR-15 rifles are easy to handle and shoot, have minimal recoil and are perfect home and self-defense weapons. In addition, AR-15 rifles are FUN to shoot, many people using them for target practice and other legal uses. Women find them especially attractive due to their low recoil and easy handling.

    In addition, you “fall into the trap” of demonizing the millions of AR-15 rifle owners who are law abiding citizen, and would NEVER commit any heinous act with a firearm or any other means. I, for one, do not appreciate you demonizing all AR-15 owning firearms enthusiasts for the actions of a “nut case”–yes–“nut case”–harsh words, but necessary.

    Your comment that “you don’t NEED an AR-15” falls flat on its face. There are many things that “you don’t need”, but WHO ARE YOU to determine what a person needs or wants?

    In order to “educate” you I ask you to do the following:

    Pull up a picture of an AR-15 rifle and a Ruger Mini-14. You will find that these are identical operating rifles except for “looks”. The AR-15 rifle functions exactly the same as the Ruger Mini-14–same caliber and method of operation. The AR-15 has a “scary” (to some) black appearance, while the Mini-14 has a wood stock and looks like a traditional rifle.

    I would encourage you to visit a rifle or pistol range and talk to the people there. You will not find a better bunch of people who are just as sickened by the behavior of these school shooters as anyone else. These same people would stand up for YOU, or any police officer who was threatened. Ask them to show you a AR-15 and Ruger Mini-14 and make the comparison.

    Taking away the rights of honest people just because of criminal behavior is just wrong. THAT is what your guest and her ilk espouse.

    Blaming the weapon for the actions of a “nut case” is just wrong.

    I would appreciate a retraction, or at least a clarification on your stance. I don’t want to lose my trust in your objectivity, honesty and fairness.


  28. avatar Gun Free School Zones are a crime against humanity says:

    Let us retired old farts hang out at our kids/grandkids schools with our openly worn firearms.

  29. avatar rt66paul says:

    If the media was restricted from giving out the shooter’s name and he could not gain notoriety from the episode, the crazys would not so this because they would not get credit for the slaughter. Don’t give him a platform and he is just another felon who won’t leave jail until middle age. I doubt there would be many more school shootings.

  30. avatar Bernard says:

    Start small, like cleaning your room. Jordan Peterson stuff.

  31. avatar Don says:

    While I agree with allowing CCW in schools, to include qualified students. Armed teachers are not the answer. The answer at this point in time is having dedicated, sworn school law enforcement officers using patrols and video surveillance who are equipped and trained to deal with an active shooter situation along with other crimes that may occur. Relying on an armed teacher to protect the campus against an active shooter is stupid. Armed, trained officers with communications and transportation is what will stop these school shootings. How much is your child worth? Should they not be as adequately protected as if they were in a state building?

    1. avatar Muhmawsur says:

      “armed trained officers ” haha those same armed and trained officers who generally only shoot quals? Sorry I don’t fall for this. But a large amount of these “trained officers ” do good to know which end of their pistol is the business end. Furthermore where were these armed and trained officers? In nearly every mass shooting they simply cordon the area until the shooter stops. Rarely do they actively breach in an attempt to stop the shooting while it is active. They are often too concerned for “officer safety” to actually make a difference when it counts. See columbine, the pulse club, Vegas, and this Florida shooting for examples of LE not actively attempting to stop the shooter. It was not as if their wasn’t a SRO already at the school anyways.

  32. avatar Jay in Florida says:

    As a non parent.
    Take away social media devices for starters.
    Then more importantly.
    Stop medicating THE CRAP out of these kids.
    Some begin the drugs as early as 4 or 5 years old.
    None of these mood changers are recommended for children even at reduced dosages.
    Time to go back to ones hand or belt strap maybe??
    Worked for a lot of years.
    You know. “For the children”………………………..

  33. avatar J.Edwards says:

    HR 34. Pass it. Done.

  34. avatar FlamencoD says:

    School protection:
    2-4 armed guards at every school (# depending on school size)
    1 continuously views CCTV while the others strategically roam the halls, focusing on entry ways, checking parking lots, etc,
    Rotate positions so fatigue doesn’t set in; don’t let one guard monitor the CCTV for more than 2 hours at a time
    Each armed with an AR-15 and sidearm

    Stopping it before it happens:
    Report crazy behavior like this guy,
    LEO needs to follow up
    Social workers assigned to track the at risk people and conduct wellness checks, monitor public social media, etc.
    It’s a start.

  35. avatar Chip in Florida says:

    “What ONE THING should society do to reduce or eliminate the threat of an active shooter on a school campus?”

    Only one?

    In the immortal words of Malcom Reynolds…. “Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill ’em right back”

    In other words, shoot back.

    When shooters get the idea that the school, or anywhere else for that matter, isn’t a great big group of soft-targets then maybe there will be less people getting killed in those great big groups of soft targets.

  36. avatar Chris says:

    Allow staff to carry concealed. It really is that simple. Would YOU try to rob a bank if the customers and staff were armed?

  37. avatar Jbw says:

    Armed security, all doors locked and monitored by alarm and tv, tv for the outside of the building, no one in that is unauthorized. Metal detectors, lots of cops around at the beginning and end of the day. We pay to protect asshole politicians take that away make them worry.
    Arm any teachers, coaches or administrator that will take the training.

    It’s a start

  38. avatar uncommon_sense says:

    1. Stop plastering spree killers’ photos all over the place.
    2. Stop saying spree killers’ names.
    3. Refer to spree killers only by the place that they attacked.
    4. Restore traditional families.
    5. Keep an unloaded single-shot 20 gauge shotgun in most classrooms.
    6. Require most staff members to carry a single 20 gauge slug in their pocket.
    7. Store that shotgun in a STURDY cabinet which requires TWO people to open.
    (One person must be a school staff member with a key and the second person could be a student who pushes an interlock button that is beyond the reach of the staff member turning the key in the sturdy cabinet.)

  39. avatar former water walker says:

    Do more…do better. Duh!

  40. avatar Grumpy says:

    If any location is sensitive enough to declare it a gun free zone, it is sensitive enough to control access to and provide at least some level of security. It is not that hard to reduce the entry points so that a security guard prevents access by unauthorized personal. A school is not that hard to protect, you essentially have a white list of the current students and teachers you allow in, period. Not on the list, suspended, expelled, you don’t get in.

  41. avatar POPO says:

    I spent over 30 years as a cop and have literally worked thousands of violent/ dangerous crimes. In probably 99% of those cases, the criminal had numerous prior arrests for similar offenses.
    If they had been killed committing the first one, it would have prevented untold suffering for his future victims.
    The recidivism rate for dead criminals is ZERO.


  42. avatar Tom Moscone says:

    Some of you people are such whackjob morons. Whatever planet you are living on, it is not the one that created the modern wonders of the world we have today.

    No, most teachers have no interest in carrying a gun even if you let them, so that isn’t going to work. To be effective with a gun you need to keep up 100+ hours per year of martial arts, marksmanship, and handgun combat skills practice, and the schools aren’t going to pay the teachers for that either. Much less full time armed guards in enough quantity to cover every entrance.

    No, there is not a medical conspiracy to drug our kids into becoming mass murderers. Maybe some drugs are overprescribed but it is not a significant contributor to this phenomenon.

    Not all of these mass shooters care about their names being immortalized. Not repeating the names would only dissuade a small percent of them.

    The only solution that maintains our full gun rights is doing a better job of ensuring that only the right people have guns.

    Beyond restricting guns from felons, we also need to ensure that convictions within the Juvenile Court system result in the delinquent having their right to bear arms delayed until they are past prime age for gang activity, something like 32. Yes, that means that your perfectly nice neighbor’s delinquent son who beats a kid up and gets in trouble won’t get to buy his first gun at 18. Boo fucking hoo, he’s a emotionally troubled idiot and doesn’t deserve it.

    We should probably also do more to vet the psychological background of gun owners. Either make people sit in for a psych evaluation, or perhaps require gun owners to be endorsed by at least X number of law-abiding, tax-paying citizens. You are only allowed guns if you can get 5 standup citizens to endorse your mental and emotional stability, for example.

    Also, we need more measures to protect against straw selling and other illegal gun transfers. We should be keeping records of every single gun ownership transfer, with universal background checks, and we should better regulate claimed gun thefts. People should have to prove that their gun was stolen. They should have to prove that they made a good faith effort to not allow their gun to be stolen, for example by transferring to the police the busted gun safe.

    There are lots of people who could own a million guns and will never commit a murder. Judging by the absolute batshit insanity of many of these posts, I would say that some of you should not own guns based on your disconnection from reality.

    1. avatar cisco kid says:

      You’re the moron. But even morons have a voice in our system. And the rest of us can choose to ignore your voice.

      Why waste time and energy listening to a moron?

    2. avatar Missouri_Mule says:

      Well some of us do, so there.
      Middle school teacher
      Concealed Carry Instructor
      Bunch of other skills that are none of your business

    3. avatar Geoff PR says:

      “We should be keeping records of every single gun ownership transfer,…”


      That generates an irrefutable paper trail that *will* be used for confiscation. And if you can’t produce the gun they are looking for when they come knocking, off to the camps you go.

      And don’t think for one second the Leftists aren’t frothing at the mouth with glee at the possibility of taking control of all three branches of government so they can outlaw every gun you own.

  43. avatar POPO says:

    Gated schools With guards at entry points! No in or out without ID and a BIG YELLOW BUS!

    Low cost option locked steel outside doors armed guards at all entry points.

    Classroom steel doors with strong lock no glass….

    Armed teachers who get trained by popo 4 extra credit as part of teacher pay scale.

    Armed teachers earn more that will get them on-board!

  44. avatar John Thomas says:

    1. humble ourselves
    2. pray
    3. seek Gods face
    4. turn away from evil

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  45. avatar Gregolas says:

    1. Arm and train teachers and Admins under the program.
    2. All governors should activate the Militia. There’s plenty of Dads and Grandpas who will volunteer to guard schools on a rotating basis. Give them the day off like jury duty.
    3. Kids K-12 will grow up learning that arms in private hands protect them.

    1. avatar Gun Free School Zones are a crime against humanity says:

      A lot of us grandpa’s would spend full time at our loved ones schools.

  46. avatar ATFAgentBob says:

    Only one thing huh? Well I have a problem narrowing it down that much I’ll list a few.

    1. Stop medicating kids for every little “personality defect”. Seriously, STOP flinging pills at everyone for every little issue!

    2. Let parents actually parent. If my sons’ teacher tells me one more time not to spank them I’m gonna lose my mind. Now I don’t spank them for everything but it is always an option if the others should fail.

    3. Let kids deal with bullies. This crap where both kids are suspended for fighting is ridiculous. My boys know not to start the fight but they are encouraged to finish it quickly and to try not to get hit in the face.

    4. Bring back shop class. Boys around 10 through 99 years old occasionally need to use power tools, fix things, build things, or destroy things. It’s just a guy thing.

    5. Take politics out of school. Yes do it, totally remove politics unless you’re in History, Political Science, or Social Studies there is no reason to bring up politics. Oh yeah that also means cutting out Channel One news or whatever it is your school plays on the class TVs of a morning.

    6. Improve mental health but realize a lot of the issues teens display are just normal growing pains.

    7. Get the FBI/local cops off their asses when there is a credible threat.

    8. Acknowledge boys are boys and girls are girls. They mature differently, act differently, and learn differently.

  47. avatar TommyJay says:

    How about a legal requirement to voluntarily relinquish all weapons to temporary police/sheriff storage, before taking mind altering prescription drugs. Specifically, those drugs that alter serotonin and norepinephrine levels. Maybe limit the requirement to those 25 years old or younger, since that seems to be where the seemingly psychotic behavior crops up.

    It would be a pain if the parents or guardians have weapons, but they could conceivably still get them from the storage facility for hunting trips etc. That doesn’t help to defend the home though.

    This might curtail the use of these drugs (the Eli Lilly lobbyists would work overtime fighting it), but that could be a good thing where the prescription isn’t warranted anyway, or a bad thing if it is.

  48. avatar MyName says:

    Shoot back!

    1. avatar John in IN says:

      That’s exactly right. We need to do the same thing we do with any vulnerable soft target. Harden the target. First step: stop demanding that security guards be disarmed.

  49. avatar Sam I Am says:

    Own up to their responsibility for creating the society we have; none on the left are ever to blame. Dr. Spock (and all the “red diaper doper babies) told us that if we enforce discipline on children we will end up with traumatized and crazy children and teens who will be a menace to society. So, “we” bought into that idea, and removed all the limits. Now we have the very children we were warned about.

  50. avatar LT says:

    Start at home.

    There’s a serious lack of parenting in America today. Little to no discipline of children, and parents are routinely failing to teach kids that every action, good or bad, has consequences. If you don’t institute at an early age that bad behavior will have negative consequences, it’s damn near impossible to teach that once kids have reached the ability to think abstractly (i.e., adolescence). It becomes ingrained that they can do or say anything they want without consequences.

    There are exceptions, but the vast majority of the blame lies with the parents, not society or the tool used by a mass murderer.

  51. avatar BASHer says:

    One aspect of this that Denton touched on is the plastering of these toads names and faces on the cover of Time magazine where they are held up as powerful and evil incarnate. That infamy alone can drive defective people to do horrible things in the way that Herostratus burnt down the temple for the sole purpose of achieving infamy.

    As such the counter programming is to mock them as pathetic losers. Case in point: A number of years back a porn star killed a coworker and maimed some other folks. Charley Chase who “worked” with the guy described him as “The worst smelling man I have ever come across.” and had some other unkind things to about his unsuitability for that trade.

    In one episode of “Beavis and Butthead” Beavis sees his own tombstone. The inscription reads “Here lies Beavis. He never scored.” That is the epitaph we need hang around the necks of losers in death.

  52. avatar gp says:

    Do we even need brick-and-mortar schools anymore? Teach all the kids at home with online courses. That’s got to be far less expensive, and far more conducive to learning, than continuing with the sh!thole public schools we have now.

  53. avatar Pat H says:

    I heard a suggestion that unemployed veterans could be hired to be guards. They are already trained in firearms.

  54. avatar #Merica says:

    Stop making stupid mistakes! Dozens of people in Florida dropped the ball as well as the FBI,NSA and Law enforcement……..and all the social media platforms that criminal had.

    Stop the thousands of FBI agents spending millions…..from chasing a big Russian LIE and get to work doing their job and protecting people.

    They would rather arrest a person that has a rifle or shotgun that has a barrel .25 inches too short to be legal in the illegal 1934 NFA. and put them in jail for 10yrs with a $10k fine.

  55. avatar ironicatbest says:

    How would I know what society should do? Im anti-social

  56. avatar ozzallos says:

    Guns have been around in the US for a stupidly long amount of time. How come nobody is asking why these shooting have become a problem only recently? That’s the question people should be asking, but its more convenient to use guns as a political stick ala Jimmy Kimble.

  57. avatar Mad Max says:

    Concealed carry by school staff and teachers that want to volunteer is what will stop the school shootings.

    Those that volunteer should receive firearms and combat medical training with first responders/law enforcement that would be responding to an active shooter call.

    Just like the rest of the country, where concealed carry is permitted, violent crime decreases; where it is restricted, violent crime is high.

    If the prospective school shooter thinks there is a high probability of being stopped by an armed citizen, they are likely to choose another target or method.

    Unfortunately, I can think of several alternative methods that are easier and would produce a higher body count than using firearms. It would depend on the motivation of the potential school shooter/terrorist.

    1. avatar Sam I Am says:

      Any noticed that the favored response of POTG to a mass shooting (arm as many people as possible) is kinda like the favored response of the opposition (remove arms from as many people as possible)? Both sides are focusing on the tool, are they not? The tool is claimed to be either the cause, or the solution to the problem of violent acts by people feeling entitled to “make everyone pay”.

      We are fond of proclaiming that violence is the problem, not guns; but, we rally strongly for more guns as the solution.

      Face it, engaging in serious efforts to alter the culture is just as unattractive for POTG as the opposition. While it is good we have organizations defending the second amendment, can those organizations be used to work on solutions to a culture of violence?

      1. avatar Mad Max says:

        I don’t think the typical school mass shooting is the result of a culture of violence. Most of the school shooters have been mentally I’ll. Gang violence would be due to culture.

        We certainly can be better at school security and dealing with mental illness early.

        We also don’t want schools to be secured like a prison. I see the deployment of firearms as the least intrusive equalizing tool and deterrent option available. I think that once their deployment is widely known, attempts at mass shootings will substantially decline. No shots need to be fired.

        Further, no matter what laws are passed, if some equalizing deterrent isn’t present (firearms in the hands of school personnel, armed security, or heavily-fortified schools with metal detectors), these attacks will not be prevented.

        1. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “I see the deployment of firearms as the least intrusive equalizing tool and deterrent option available.”

          A bullet through the heart is rather intrusive, don’t you think?

          My observation is that neither the pro or anti gun chorus want to put much effort into reversing the crumbling society. You actually made my point; we prefer letting things go until gunfire is the best way to stop gunfire. I am not against armed citizens, or self-defense with whichever firearm one can afford. But why is it that both sides of the argument want to ignore the problem, and concentrate only on the tool of extreme solution? Are we not also part of the problem? Do we not have an obligation to apply as much pressure on politicians to influence a positive change in the culture as we apply to influence them to stop the erosion of our “gun rights”?

          Or is that all fortunately someone else’s problem, and we are just there to lay-out the bad actors?

      2. avatar Mad Max says:

        You left out the next sentence: ” I think that once their deployment is widely known, attempts at mass shootings will substantially decline. No shots need to be fired.”

        If it is widely believed that the school staff is armed (whether or not they are actually armed is irrelevant), it will reduce the likelihood that a school shooting will happen. It is possible, that no one at some schools will volunteer (and that should be kept secret).

        If you want to wait for society to change, it will be decades and result in the destruction of the Bill of Rights in the process. From where we stand today, the only method that the average American understands is that the government should do it and the majority buy into “socialist” government (even if this means the unlikely event that the government sponsors civic responsibility and participation programs but would likely result in substantial infringements on speech and firearms – just like Europe) .

        The solution from our current state of affairs is, unfortunately, firearms and vigilance. Perhaps we should restore the first part of the 2nd Amendment and “regulate” the militia along with some instruction on the founding principals and history to start restoring civic responsibility and participation.

        1. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “If you want to wait for society to change, it will be decades and result in the destruction of the Bill of Rights in the process. ”

          – You are doing it; declaring that unless and until a perfect solution is in hand, we need not make any attempts to bring it about. This is a constant theme with leftists/liberals/statists/democrats talking about the problem with guns. “Until all the guns are confiscated, there is nothing to be done about these shootings”. If you are waiting for someone else to act first, you are part of the problem.

          “The solution from our current state of affairs is, unfortunately, firearms and vigilance. ”

          – You propose not a solution, but a easy escape from the real problem; decaying culture. I read you as saying, “We should not, as POTG, have any interest in simultaneously defending our 2A-protected rights, and using group influence to address the constitutional AND cultural issues”. Reminds me of an old Vietnam War slogan: “Kill them all; let God sort ’em out.”

          Firearms and vigilance are not solutions. They are last-ditch, full-on emergency procedures. We, POTG, need to offer more than a bullet to the head of the ubiquitous bad guy. We can go on the offensive to make our politicians fix the structural, systemic problems that require so many of us to resort to emergency procedures. We are constantly one step behind the gun grabbers concerning attacks on our right of self-defense. Why not steal a march, and convert the “national conversation” to one where the public sees us as truly a force for good?

  58. avatar TomD in CO says:

    One thing – spend money on security. Harden the target. Add metal detectors and proximity-card entry points – if the school required an active proximity card to enter the building, he would not have gotten into the building. Add security staff that is trained and armed – enough to cover the entry points.

    1. avatar Mad Max says:

      Besides turning schools into prisons, security measures like restricted access points proximity ID cards and metal detectors can be easily defeated or subverted by most average teens. I work at a university and the freshmen in the residence halls do this routinely (along with defeating electronic security systems and video surveillance).

      Besides, the school would need to be constructed without windows, with bulletproof windows, or windows with security barriers (bars and heavy-duty expanded metal).

      Covertly armed and vigilant personnel seems to be the way to go because armed security would just be target practice before the main event.

  59. avatar fteter says:

    I agree with many of the points raised here about increasing security. In addition to that, I’ll make one other important point…has nothing to do with guns per se…but most of you are not gonna like it. On the first read, I know I didn’t. But the more I think about it, the more it makes sense:

  60. avatar American Vet says:

    There is nothing that really can be done. We have created a society fixated on guns. What happens as a result of that tunnel vision is simply seen as collateral damage, and Second Amendment Rights zealots simply DO NOT CARE. Their love for their guns outweigh their ability to care about anyone who is outside their immediate circle jerk.

    1. avatar Sam I Am says:

      Instead of whining about guns, do something legitimate. Like start a drive to repeal the second amendment. That will keep you busy for at least a year, right?

      This un-American notion that the constitution does not matter, that we can’t let the constitution get in the way of doing the right thing has been tried before. You may like the outcome of that effort, but it cost 600,000 dead to prove the constitution is to be honored only when it serves a popular purpose. Are you proposing to have another go at it?

      Since you are late to the party, let me pose something submitted a few days ago, then answer the question at the bottom:

      “How many existing laws were broken during the shooting?
      – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
      Premeditated murder
      Attempted murder
      Aggravated assault
      Assault with a deadly weapon
      Assault and battery
      Assault Threatening and intimidating
      Conspiracy to commit felony
      Conspiracy to commit misdemeanor
      Aiding and abetting
      Providing firearm to minor
      Providing handgun to minor
      Possession of firearm by minor
      Possession of handgun by minor
      Possession of firearm by minor without federally required permission slip from parent or guardian
      Use of firearm or bomb to commit murder that is federally prosecutable
      Brandishing a gun
      Gun on school grounds
      Possession of ammunition on school grounds
      Discharging firearm in city limits
      Discharging firearm on school grounds with reckless disregard for another person’s safety
      Disturbing the peace
      Committing a hate crime
      – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
      What/which law not yet implemented would have overcome the violation of all the laws above, and stopped the shooter from attacking the school? “

  61. avatar Pete Rocco says:

    No more soft targets. Guns trucks bombs gasoline are not going away in the hands of mentally ill. Protect soft targets (churches schools etc) as you would banks Then add laws and procedures to address background checks on mentally ill and departments talking and sharing information.

  62. avatar Fred Erenfeld says:


  63. avatar WhiteFalcon says:

    Question: What do we do about school shooters?

    Answer: Kill them.

    1. avatar Sam I Am says:

      ” Question: What do we do about school shooters?
      Answer: Kill them.”

      Read somewhere that a shot behind each knee pretty much ends the useful life of someone. Would it be worth the never-ending medical care in prison? Just askin’

      In truth, I favor permanent solitary for killers. If you intentionally take a life, you should forfeit yours. In these days, it is considered unfair to require a killer also give up their life. In solitary confinement, the convicted killer has no life but, should later proof come in that the convict is innocent, the convict is alive to be released. Win win?

  64. avatar BillZ says:

    One thing I have never seen tried, is to reduce the size of the schools. As one who grew up in a small Catholic school, (+- 150 students) everyone knew each other. If you went to school with the same group, after a few years, the mentally unbalanced stood out. The urge to build larger schools, in my opinion, comes from potentially higher salaries for administrator positions, and the drive to have a larger pool of athletes, etc. to pick from for the school sporting teams. Possible economies of scale really should be less important to administrators than student cohesion, and identity with the group you grew up with.

    1. avatar Sam I Am says:

      Looks like a common sense proposition.

  65. avatar J Wolf says:

    Soft targets should be guarded just like banks.

  66. avatar clinton says:

    Guns do not get up and shoot someone, people do. Perhaps a way to stop gun violence and crimes is through family pressure. Raise the child correctly. When someone commits a crime make the immediate family, then other relatives accountable too. Impose fines and and reduce social subsidies to a family who have a criminal. Family pressure should straighten the criminal out. If not, the penalties can serve as an example to others to think and plan before having a child. Do it right or it will cost you.
    Criminals will still get guns from the black market.

  67. avatar Randall Coelho says:

    I believe the liberals are using our school children as collateral damage to support their anti-gun agenda. Gun free zones do not exist. Our schools need protection! trained and armed personnel.

  68. avatar redmanrt says:

    “To be charitable, their heart is in the right place.”

    No, their heart is not in the right place. They are simply seeking arbitrary power, be it vicarious or real.

  69. avatar Debra Rush says:

    Parents do not pay attention to their kids. The parents do not pay attention to there kids or who they run with. They allow their kids on the internet with out over sight. Kids under the age of 21 should not have access to guns. Parents do not get mental health care for the kids. Nobody knows their kid better than the parent and should be able to detect things that may be a little strange with the child. I am not against guns but no body needs an AR15 to go deer hunting. Hunters hunt around my area and it is getting to conjusted for some of the higher power long guns. I worry every hunting season.

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