Armed Robbery. Help? Question of the Day

Watertown robbery (courtesy youtube.com)

Another day, another armed robbery. In the video below,, a knife-wielding thief holds a big *ss blade to the neck of a Watertown, Massachusetts convenience store clerk. The clerk gives the robber the money. But notice something else . . .

The customer at the counter casually walks away from the scene of the crime.

Imagine that was you, and you were armed, what would you do? And now imagine you had a child with you. Same reaction?

comments

  1. avatar dph says:

    Don’t know what I would do if I was a customer, but I know what I’d do if I was the clerk. To often robbers decide there should be no witnesses, robber is bent over and his back to the clerk, he would have never seen it coming.

    1. avatar neiowa says:

      It’s Mass. Is it legal to possess/use a claymore, ax, pink squirt gun?

    2. avatar Gralnok says:

      Giant guitar from nowhere. El Kabong!

      1. avatar Rick the Bear says:

        Thanks, Babalouie!

    3. avatar binder says:

      “Robber is bent over and his back to the clerk”
      I could not believe that when I saw it, that is one armed robber that is not going to live very long.

  2. avatar Gralnok says:

    If I were armed, I’d order the bastard to drop the blade before I dropped him. If he did anything that even looked hostile, I’d shoot. Same thing if I had a kid with me.

    If I were the clerk who was just robbed, I’d likely beat the crap out of the customer for walking calmly away. Clearly, that customer was colluding with the robber.

    1. avatar Cloudbuster says:

      I’d just shoot him. By holding the blade to the throat he is already using deadly force. Instructing him to drop the blade just gives him more opportunity to hurt the clerk.

  3. avatar Tom of Toms says:

    Yep. “Stop. No?” Pewpewpew.

    Pewpew.

    Pew.

    1. avatar Tom of Toms says:

      Might change a bit if I was with my daughter.

      “Hey sweetie, will you grab a can of chili from that aisle over there for me? Wolf Brand. No. With beans. Thank you.”

      *turns to robber*

      “Think fast!!!”

    2. avatar Rattlerjake says:

      Seriously? Standing that close you need to shoot 6 times? You really need to go back to the range! It takes only one shot – center mass of the chest or head, although I’d be tempted to groin shoot him to give the leftists another tranny voter and to hear him squeal in girlish tones!

      1. avatar James R says:

        An armed robber with a deadly weapon is feet away from you and you are going to trust just one shot to do the job? Keep shooting until the threat is stopped.

  4. avatar Conservatarian says:

    Can’t even imagine me in MA, much less that situation there. Its a no-go state. If I must go through it, it IS indeed just to go through it. No commerce there, not even to buy gas on the way through.

    MA has made it so that people can’t/won’t help someone who is in need, for risk of getting entangled with that state’s laws.

    I suspect outside that state, the likelihood of the clerk getting help and the perp ending up on the floor goes way up.

    1. avatar Binder says:

      I’m not a lawyer, but from what I got from a quick search, you can carry in MA at your place of business, and once the knife came out with threats that robber is fair game.

      Massachusetts General Laws Chapter 269 Section 10 makes it illegal to knowingly possess a loaded or unloaded firearm if:
      You are not present in your own residence or place of business
      You do not have the required firearm license
      You possess an illegal weapon, such as a sawed off shotgun or machine gun

      In MA the courts have taken the position that self defense using deadly force is justified only if the individual being attacked has a reasonable belief that he or she is in danger of death or serious bodily harm

      1. avatar Rick the Bear says:

        “In MA the courts have taken the position that self defense using deadly force is justified…”

        This is the same state whose SJC has ignored Heller & MacDonald and whose current AG makes up rules as she goes along.

        As Andrew Branca has said, even if you are right in using lethal force, you’ll be put in the judicial system as a punishment.

        When I lived there and was single with little, I would probably try to have helped. After I had a family and things to lose, I’d help only if _I_ was in danger. (And I’d still probably be charged.)

        1. avatar Jared says:

          Andrew feeds on his own ego and incorrectly argued and bullied people who corrected him by telling him licensed open carry is legal in MA. Boston admitted it, the state police admitted it , but not the “self defense” guru in Colorado.

  5. avatar 27 Words says:

    Hard to say until you actually find yourself in that situation, how you’d react. I like to think if it were just me, that I’d help the clerk.

    Regarding a kid, I think that my reaction would be greatly different if I’m with my 10 year old son (who can listen to direction and run) vs. if I’m with my 3 year old daughter. In that case, sorry Mr. Clerk, she’s my priority.

    1. avatar Rattlerjake says:

      The crook has a knife, not a gun, the age of the child doesn’t matter, it’s a great teachable moment. Shoot the bastard, then turn to your child, who (even at 3 years old) should have already been taught about right, wrong, and criminals need to be dealt with, and say, “See, that’s what you do to scumbags!”

  6. avatar Ralph says:

    I’d walk away and forget it, RF. It’s Massachusetts.

    1. avatar Rad Man says:

      It’s Watertown, I don’t know too many gutsy gun owners from that area. Outside 495 a perp could be perforated.

  7. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

    I would feel really sorry for the clerk.

    Because getting somebody else’s brains splattered all over you would have to suck.

    1. avatar BLoving says:

      Pretty sure I own a bar of soap somewhere…
      🤠

    2. avatar Ed Rogers says:

      That raises a good point. Know what’s beyond your target.

      As previously mentioned, I can’t say what I’d do. Knowing the clerk was possibly in harm’s way of a shot, I probably hold off and wait for a clear opportunity… from a good distance.

      I know it’s big talk but I hopefully I can rise to the occasion.

    3. avatar Rattlerjake says:

      Cleanup on Isle four!

  8. avatar BLoving says:

    I saw not just the one witness, but several sets of feet moving around in that vid… was the knife-wielder alone? We’re some of those sets of feet accomplices? Would I, as a witness there, be outnumbered? Would my first instinct (a sound wallop to the noggin with my ever-present Cold Steel Irish Walking Stick) get me in deeper trouble than it would be worth? Why did the clerk make no move at all when the goon was bent over and oblivious while distracted picking up his loot? Was the situation less serious than we think?
    Too many unanswered questions… which simply proves what we often say here: the victim IS the first responder, not the police, and I trust the victims account of what happened more than the report of the responding officer.
    🤠

    1. avatar Ing says:

      That’s what I was wondering. Why did the clerk just continue standing there while the robber’s back was turned? At the very least, you’d think he might jump the counter to get away from the knife. Seems very strange. Maybe he was frozen in panic, or maybe what looks to us like an escape route really wasn’t.

  9. avatar Rusty Chains says:

    Massachusetts was once a place where the citizens stood up to government infringements of their rights, not true now for over a century. I haven”t been there since I quit working for a company that use to be based out of Lowell about twenty years ago. I use to have to fly into Boston and catch a shuttle to company headquarters several times a year. I have since avoided anyplace that didn’t recognized my GA Carry License.

    Bottom line, the issue wouldn’t have come up.

  10. avatar Gman says:

    In MA? Are you kidding? That’s a joke question, right? The subjects of MA have made it abundantly clear they don’t need help from someone out of state.

  11. avatar johnny go lightly says:

    Remember that a Mass DA and popo are going to represent the criminal not you. About a half dozen states have removed themselves from a sane society.

    1. avatar ColoradoKid says:

      Regarding the legality of the shoot, if you shot the robber while he was holding the knife to the clerk, good legal shoot. Shooting anytime after the knife is withdrawn would land you in the pokey because the poor robber was retreating (picking up the loot) and not a threat anymore. Then all of a sudden the perp is the victim.

  12. avatar Michigunner says:

    Tough question.

    I carry to protect me and my own. There are little ones and other people that depend on me for their livelihood. I do not carry to be a hero, and tangling with a knife wielding fool that has no interest in me puts me in danger. Not to mention the legal escapades that are sure to follow. That being said, I’m not certain that I would walk away from this situation if I did not have my children with me. Depends on the circumstances, and I cant say how I would react unless I was there in the moment. There are too many variables.

    1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      Michigunner,

      I understand and see no fault with your sentiments:
      — “I carry to protect me and my own.”
      — “I do not carry to be a hero”
      — “tangling with a knife wielding fool that has no interest in me puts me in danger.”

      Please consider the fact that NOT engaging the attacker also puts you in danger, both directly and indirectly. It puts you directly in danger because the attacker could see you and suddenly come after you to rob you or eliminate you as a witness. And it puts you indirectly in danger because the attacker (who goes free) could target you in the future. Not engaging the attacker also puts your family indirectly at risk because the attacker could target one of your family members in the future.

      I am not saying that you are right or wrong if you do or do not engage the attacker. All I am saying is that I believe your risk analysis was missing important facts.

  13. avatar Vic Nighthorse says:

    I can’t carry in MA so you won’t find me there. I also wouldn’t have a child with me, I am not a babysitter. If this happened in WY, I’d consider incapacitating the robber but I’d worry about those other people in the store being bad guys too.

  14. avatar little horn says:

    sigh, yet again RF your world is sculpted by HOW YOU VIEW IT.

    he did not “casually” walk away. he left his purchase on the counter as he fled slowly.
    it is very hard to have respect for someone who cannot keep consistent view points.
    how many times have you yourself said on this website “if you have the chance to escape, do it” yet when you see someone do it, you chastise them. and you call the liberals hypocritical.

    1. avatar Specialist38 says:

      Snap!

    2. avatar Stereodude says:

      He was probably escaping to his Ford Escape Ecoboost with the baby Groot and SIG sticker on the back window in the parking lot so he could make a safe drive back to Austin while doing something wrong.

  15. avatar Michael says:

    There were a lot of people in that store. No telling who might have been accomplices. No one went to help the cashier and at least one person ran out. Touching off in a crowded environment carries its own perils. Cashier should have beat that guy when he turned and bent over.

  16. avatar PeterK says:

    I think if I had a kid nearby I’d go papa bear. No idea what dangerous man will do next.

    Look for heavy blunt object, apply to head. Repeat as necessary.

    I guess if I had a really little kid literally clinging to me, I’d jet but be immediately screaming for help and calling cops.

  17. avatar OmnivorousBeorn says:

    Not anywhere near worth it, kid or no kid. I carry for saving life, not for saving a business’ cash till. YMMV.

    He can have all the money he wants. He’ll be arrested in a few hours.

    1. avatar OmnivorousBeorn says:

      To be clear, if he started hurting someone, then he’s not safe. But as long as it’s just normal robbery, I have no desire to stop him.

      1. avatar Specialist38 says:

        How many normal robberies turn into normal murders?

        Since action is faster than reaction, waiting for someone to start killing you usually means you are going to be dead (or seriously injured – injured bad).

        People of the gun often lack the proper respect for how fast an impact weapon or knife can kill you.

        Shooting “at” someone who is swinging a baseball ball or a hunting knife means you are getting tagged.

        They may go down – die even – but you might be down as well.

        Hollywood movies nothwithstanding.

        1. avatar OmnivorousBeorn says:

          Could you show me a video of a thief who, after getting the money with no resistance, attacked the clerk?

          Like I said, YMMV. My personal opinion is that if he gets the money, he’ll leave much more often than he’ll attack. If he attacks, I’ll be far enough away to shoot him without getting stabbed or hit or shot. Otherwise, the store loses $1K. Big deal.

        2. avatar Geoff PR says:

          “Could you show me a video of a thief who, after getting the money with no resistance, attacked the clerk?”

          Video, no, but here’s this :

          “A spokesperson with the Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department said a man entered the gas station and demanded money. The clerk gave the suspect money when asked, but the suspect still shot him.”

          https://www.theindychannel.com/news/crime/gas-station-clerk-shot-after-giving-money-to-robber

          IT HAPPENS…

        3. avatar Specialist38 says:

          To OmiverousBeorn

          Can’t find those specific numbers but this is from the Bureau of Justice for 1993-2001
          https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/wuvc01.pdf

          page 6 – Violent crimes – weapons and injuries. Sorry they didn’t break it out into robberies.
          6% of violent crimes were committed with knives – making up 24% of serious injuries.
          10% of violent crimes with blunt opbject/other – 20% of serious injuries.

          Bottom line – serious injury is more likely if the weapon is not a gun.
          You can make your decision on the averages for robberies.

        4. avatar OmnivorousBeorn says:

          @Specialist38 I’m not sure what to make of those stats. Even if a robbery ends with violence, that doesn’t tell us if the victim resisted, does it? Are you just trying to say that scumbags are scumbags and not to be trusted?

        5. avatar Specialist38 says:

          I’m saying that if some is robbing you with deadly force, it is prudent to assume the worst.

          You might want to assume the knife isn’t loaded or that he’s a good guy down on his luck.

          I will assume he is prepared to murder me and do what I can to prevent it.

    2. avatar Curtis in IL says:

      Arrested in a few hours? Maybe. Then he’ll be bonded out in a few more. He’ll continue with the thug life until he happens to get picked up on a warrant after missing his court date.

      1. avatar OmnivorousBeorn says:

        Even so, I see no need to shoot him. Risk-benefit isn’t even close for me. He can have the money, the clerk can have his life, and I can continue my normal life.

        Also, what he has done or will do is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is what he IS doing. I can’t shoot him for killing a rival gang member last year. I also can’t shoot him for being willing to murder someone next year.

        1. avatar Specialist38 says:

          I don’t think you understand risk or have any idea how these bottom-feeders think.

          I can’t know what he has done or will do – only what he is doing.

          If he is threatening anyone in my immediate vicinity – he is a risk and a deadly one.

          Since he has shown intent – waiting to see what he will do is the biggest risk.

          Thinking otherwise is folly.

        2. avatar OmnivorousBeorn says:

          You’re right that anyone is 100% justified in shooting anyone who has the opportunity, intent, and tools to kill someone. I’m just saying I wouldn’t, although I respect y’all’s decision.

          I could change my mind, but I want to have less than zero second thoughts. Perhaps it’s naive and idealistic, but I don’t want to live myself otherwise.

    3. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      OminvorousBeorn,

      The point of using deadly force against the attacker was to prevent the innocent victim’s grievous injury or murder, NOT to prevent loss of cash. Saving innocent lives is always a noble act.

      The problem with your approach is that it involves trusting in the good will of the armed robber who has already demonstrated unequivocally that he/she has ill will.

      And yes, armed robbers have inflicted mortal wounds on cashiers after handing over the cash in the till. I will provide a link to one example as a reply to this comment

      1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

        Here are examples where armed robbers attempted or successfully killed the cashier who handed over the money without resisting:

        http://abc30.com/clerk-found-shot-to-death-at-tackle-box-gas-station-near-madera/2648546/

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k7y_-ggw04

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4NAlBcUerk

        1. avatar OmnivorousBeorn says:

          In my opinion, most robbers haven’t “demonstrated unequivocally that he/she has ill will” to the extent that justifies me killing them. I only intend to draw for rapists and murderers, and only if they’re caught red-handed.

          Maybe the “problem” (or difference) with my approach is that I won’t draw unless I’m preventing “irreparable harm.” It’s kinda selfish to not intervene for the clerk, but that’s just how it is for me right now.

          Thanks for providing those links. They’re sobering and interesting. Of the two actual videos of what happened, one was intentional and the other appears to be an accident.

          I think my point still stands. The chances of them shooting the clerk are lower than the chances of him not shooting.

          Y’all can do what you think is right. This is just an interesting mental exercise for my out of shape brain.

        2. avatar uncommon_sense says:

          OmniverousBeorn,

          I am with you when a robber angrily and forcefully demands valuables without producing a firearm, knife, ax, or club: their actions do not yet warrant using deadly force.

          When a robber has a firearm, knife, ax, or club in hand and either waves it at innocent victims or outright threatens to use it on innocent victims, that warrants using any force necessary to incapacitate the attacker at the first and best possible opportunity. If you wait to see if the attacker actually shoots, stabs, chops, or clobbers an innocent victim, it could very well be too late to save the life of the victim. I would much rather gamble with the attacker’s life than with an innocent victim’s life.

          You have to understand the deranged mentality of violent criminals. They commonly have ZERO respect for human dignity and human life. In fact they often actually have contempt for other people and feel a compulsion to maim and kill others or feel “superior” when they maim and kill others. The trouble is, when an armed robber strikes, you have no idea whether they are just a punk who wants an easy dollar and would never actually harm someone — or if they are a deranged violent criminal who gets off on maiming and killing people. I am not going to wait and see which type of criminal it is.

        3. avatar OmnivorousBeorn says:

          @Uncommon_Sense “When a robber has a [weapon] in hand and either waves it at innocent victims or outright threatens to use it on innocent victims, that warrants using any force necessary to incapacitate the attacker at the first and best possible opportunity.”

          Yeah, I acknowledged that somewhere.

          “If you wait to see if the attacker actually shoots, stabs, chops, or clobbers an innocent victim, it could very well be too late to save the life of the victim”

          This is why I can’t fully agree with myself. It’s a risk that I weight more heavily toward being unlikely, but likelihood of happening isn’t really the most relevant factor.

          I’ll think about it guys. Maybe I need to watch a compilation of criminals killing victims.

          I appreciate all of y’all’s thoughts. Especially yours, because they tend to be much more thoughtful and logical than the average.

  18. avatar Curtis in IL says:

    If this happened in my home town, where I’m familiar with local police and prosecutors, I would offer assistance in some form, possibly including ballistic intervention.

    If I’m a tourist in a big (liberal) city, I’m gone.

  19. avatar RocketScientist says:

    EasEasy answer, at least for me, after a robbery I personally witnessed. After a night at the bar (so thankfully was not carrying), was in a downtown convenience store getting some snacks and beverages. Was at the back of the store near the coolers when I hear shouting/ruckus from up front. Peek around the aisle to see a very large hoodie-wearing black man in stereotypical “urban” style of dress (sagging pants and all), with a handgun pointed at the head of a stuttering/crying scrawny middle-eastern looking guy behind the counter who was fumbling in the open cash register drawer with one hand while the other was raised in the air. Seemed pretty obvious to me who was the victim and who the criminal. Being a little tipsy and unarmed, I crouched down and tried to find something resembling cover while I waited it out. Shortly thereafter the police arrived… and arrested the scrawny middle-eastern guy behind the counter. After getting the full story, turns out the black gentleman was the proprietor (I had not seen him on my way in, maybe he was in the back office?). When the attempted robber came in he snuck behind the counter and pulled a knife on the clerk. The clerk felt getting some space between him and the unbalanced guy with a knife was a good idea, so he walked out from behind the counter, putting it between them, before pulling his concealed pistol and holding the guy at gunpoint until the police arrived (he’d tripped some form of alarm). Point of my story being, even when its VERY obvious who the aggressor and who the victim is, there’s ALWAYS room for error. That experience was an eye-opener for me. I’ve decided that its not my job to protect anyone else, and the consequences of getting something wrong are SO severe that it’s not worth it for me to take any action unless it’s my safety or that of a loved one that are threatened. In those cases, I’m willing to risk the consequences if it means keeping them safe. I’m not willing to get killed or go to jail for life on the off chance I was right and saved a random stranger’s life. Call me a coward, or cold-hearted. I don’t care. Take care of your own, I’ll take care of mine.

    1. avatar BLoving says:

      You’ve told that story here before, I think…
      It does illustrate an important point: there is always another side of the story.
      🤠

    2. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      RocketScientist,

      This is an excellent time to remind everyone that you should not employ any force unless you saw and heard everything unfold and KNOW which person is the attacker.

      In your case you did not see nor hear everything unfold so you did not KNOW which person was the attacker. In this hypothetical scenario for this article, you would know who the cashier is and you would have seen the attacker pull out a knife and assault the cashier. There would be no uncertainty.

      1. avatar RocketScientist says:

        Thats kind of my point. Even when you think you’ve seen “everything” unfold and you think you “know” all the data you need to, there’s room for error. We are not omniscient. We are always capable of making mistakes or misunderstanding things, no matter how much context we have. We are humans, and hence fallible.

        You are walking down a street at night, and see a sketchy looking guy crouched in a darkened alleyway, watching people leave a bar. He notices a drunk well-dressed guy stumble out, fumbling to put his wallet back in his pocket. As drunk-guy passes the mouth of the alley, sketchy guy grabs him, puts a gun to back of his head and starts grabbing at his back pocket to get the wallet. You’ve seen the entirety of the interaction right? you have all the context, you know whats going on, right? Well, turns out the sketchy looking guy is an undercover cap who’s been trying to apprehend an armed dangerous criminal (well-dressed guys), and was staking out his favorite bar for the last week. Its a hypothetical, sure, but I can think of a virtually endless string of very realistic scenarios where anyone would be very likely to (quite reasonably) come to the wrong conclusion about who played which role in an agressive encounter.

        My greater point is, drawing your firearm and involving yourself in ANY situation is HUGELY fraught with risk to yourself (even if you DO correctly figure out who the “bad guy” is). For me, I feel like I owe it my family and those I have a duty/responsibility to to NOT get killed or arrested or lose my job unless its literally the only option. For me, the only time its worth risking that is if the alternative is myself or them are in direct danger. In those cases, if I prevented them from being hurt, I’m willing to give up my life, livelihood, freedom, etc. so the consequences are moot. Anything short of that, it’s not worth letting my children grow up fatherless without a steady income to support them, for a stranger that I’ve never met and might not even be the “victim” I thought they were. Again, I’m not telling ANYONE else how to live or what to do. If you want to be a sheepdog, if your life is so meaningless that you have noone else counting on you, and you value it so poorly that you’re willing to risk it for any random stranger, thats fine. When I was younger, and I was paid for it, I served in the military to protect the ideals this nation was founded on. I have a family to protect now, and nobody is paying me put myself at risk, so I aint doing it. You can do whatever you like. Just don’t delude yourself in thinking that you are EVER going to be able to know, with 100% certainty, that you’re not making a mistake and maybe risking your life or that of the actual victim in any given scenario.

  20. avatar klause Von Schmitto says:

    LOL. Stop it Robert, you’re killing me.

    I live in Florida.

  21. avatar Oh noes says:

    I don’t want anything to do with police or courts(If avoidable) , I’d hide until threat was over then leave.
    My family’s safety comes FIRST. I would only draw and shoot If the bad guy came after me with the knife or started stabbing the clerk to death, BUT I would only help the clerk IF I made sure my family is 100% safe. IF not, sorry about your luck mr clerk you should have realized being a clerk in the ghetto with no gun is a suicide mission and prepared appropriately. (Is your job worth losing if you get caught violating a no firearm policy? Is your life?)

  22. avatar Specialist38 says:

    Don’t know what I would do since I wasn’t there.

    Anyone within 30 feet of me with a melee weapon is a deadly threat.

    More of a threat if I had a child or someone else I care about with me.

    Even without a child I would have a hard time not doing something if I could.

    The other thing – we really can’t see who else was in the store.

    Do not know if there were other hoodlums stuffing their pockets with goodies.

    Wouldn’t want to pull you heater and get clocked from behind by a can of chowder.

    Need way more information than could be provided here.

    That’s the problem with armchair quarterbacking – easy when you aren’t the one in the fray.

    1. avatar OmnivorousBeorn says:

      “Wouldn’t want to pull you heater and get clocked from behind by a can of chowder.”

      +1

      1. avatar Specialist38 says:

        Glad you got the Chowder MA pun.

  23. avatar KMc says:

    I’ve got the “Raising Arizona” supermarket holdup scene stuck in my head. One big ass revolver and a double barrel.

  24. avatar Defens says:

    At one point, it appeared that the perp had the knife in contact with the clerk’s neck, or in the general vicinity. You’d be justified in taking a shot then, but with the movement going on, a headshot might be harder than you’d think. After that, with the clerk pushed out of the way and the robber rifling through the cash register, you’d be hard pressed to defend a defensive shooting, if nobody was directly in harm’s way at that second.

    Also, while the robber had his back turned, messing around with the cash tray on the floor, why didn’t the clerk/victim take that opportunity to bail over the low counter top and get out of there, instead of milling around with some papers behind the robber? As was pointed out, there’s no assurance that the robber wouldn’t still stab him after taking the cash.

    1. avatar Specialist38 says:

      I disagree – Shooting a threat that is in the commission of a felony is no crime.

      He is still armed and dangerous.

      Can’t be thinking self-defense has Marques-de-Queenbury rules.

      1. avatar OmnivorousBeorn says:

        He’s not armed if he’s not holding the knife, which is what he was doing.

        1. avatar Specialist38 says:

          The guy in the above video had the knife the whole time if that is what you are saying.

          But by your logic – A robber could shoot and kill a victim and then re-holster, and he wouldn’t be armed anymore. Maybe slice somebody up with a knife and lay it on the counter in front of him and be considered un-armed.

          You need help.

        2. avatar OmnivorousBeorn says:

          You’re right. I saw it wrong.

          “But by your logic – A robber could shoot and kill a victim and then re-holster, and he wouldn’t be armed anymore.”

          Well not unarmed per se, but it’s just that if I have the drop on him, I can’t shoot him. If you would — in theory, not even in the heat of moment — shoot a murderer not holding a weapon, that’s pretty zealous. Is that what you’re saying or not?

        3. avatar Specialist38 says:

          Nope – someone who is murdering or attacking and hasn’t been stopped needs to be stopped.

          Guns can be reloaded and knives don’t need batteries.

          Unless they are face down on the ground with their hand behind their head – they are dangerous.

          Here in FL a couple of deputies went to gun range to pick-up a wife beater.

          He had no gun in his hand. They tasered him for some seconds.

          As soon as they stopped – he drew a pistol and killed both of them.

          He was stopped a county away. Run off the road and flipped – would not show his hands or obey commands.

          He was perforated many times until the threat was stopped.

          The biggest mistake made was assuming the taser was sufficient to take someone out of commision.

        4. avatar OmnivorousBeorn says:

          “Nope – someone who is murdering or attacking and hasn’t been stopped needs to be stopped.”

          Agreed, but we’re talking about someone who has a holstered gun or a knife on the floor, right?

          “Guns can be reloaded and knives don’t need batteries.”

          Thanks! I’ve been having a debate with my aunt about this. Will pass it along.

  25. avatar Don says:

    I would calmly walk away. Not my problem.

    1. avatar Gralnok says:

      Let me understand this…
      You are armed.
      You see something going down.
      You have the ability to help, yet…
      You calmly walk away.
      Unless I’m mistaken on what you’re saying, I’d say that makes you quite a coward.

      1. avatar Specialist38 says:

        Seem to be several of these on here today.

        I would hope someone with more scruples was around if their family were at risk.

        Sad

        1. avatar OmnivorousBeorn says:

          I have a friend who served over a decade in the Army. He deployed with Delta and is now in reserves. He said that if he heard gun fire, he’d get his family and run the other way. Is he a coward?

          You have a point, but I think calling people cowards is a bit much.

        2. avatar Specialist38 says:

          I wasn’t thinking coward. Just despicable.

        3. avatar OmnivorousBeorn says:

          You still haven’t answered the question. Try again.

        4. avatar OmnivorousBeorn says:

          Strange. It’s almost like you don’t want to call a Bronze Star recipient a despicable coward, but you can’t make yourself take back what you said, either . . .

        5. avatar Gralnok says:

          Well, if no one else wants to say it, I will.

          So this friend is a Delta force, bronze star recipient, and what he’d rather do, when armed and facing a threat, is turn tail and run.

          Correct me if I’m wrong, but is he from the Iranian army? You know, the ones who we gave all sorts of equipment to, spent millions of dollars trying to train them, only for them to drop everything and run when fighting started?

          In all seriousness, I highly doubt a bronze star recipient would just run.

        6. avatar OmnivorousBeorn says:

          @Gralnok He’s Airborne and Ranger qualified, and (like I said) deployed WITH Delta, and not as a member OF Delta. He just did his last deployment with them.

          Since he’s in CA, I’m not sure if he carries or not. He has two houses, and neither are in counties with sheriffs that hand out CCWs like candy.

          I don’t know what he WOULD do, but I know what he said. He said he’d scram. He has a pistol and LBE in his car, so maybe he was saying he’d run to his car and then go back, but again, I didn’t ask him.

          My guess is that his deployments have left him secure in his manhood and courage, and therefore he has no time to play hero.

        7. avatar Gralnok says:

          Okay, I think I get it now. If he’s going to get a gun, then I can see someone with a bronze star doing that. Also, you’re right, I misread your comment. I thought it read that he deployed in Delta, not with it. My bad.

          Also, he owns two houses in CA? Why? It’s not worth it! He should sell and move to AZ.

        8. avatar OmnivorousBeorn says:

          It’s all good. I do that all the time. =)

          Yeah, I moved to a free state because of that — and I only had one house. He has things tying him down to CA, though you’re right that he should leave.

        9. avatar Don says:

          Gralock, it’s end of discussion for you. How old are you 12? You and people like you, have no business owning or carrying firearms. You would start a shootout in a crowded store, hit innocent passers by and shoot the police as they enter to arrest the robber. The problem with idiot j offs like you is that you’ve never done anything for real and have some stupid notion in your head that you would save the day instead or ruining it or ending it for an innocent. Try stepping away from your computer and doing something with your life. I see you all over this site and all you say is stupid crap like what you wrote above. Want to be a cop, then be one, otherwise STFU.

        10. avatar Gralnok says:

          To Don.
          Sorry I didn’t respond sooner, I mistakenly thought you would actually post a reply on the appropriate comment, like everyone else.

          You’re right about one thing, I don’t know what I would do in a real life situation. Neither would you. The only thing we can do is prepare and train. Or, in your case, run away like the little bitch you are. I really shouldn’t even be replying to your bullshit. You’ve already shown yourself to be one of the sheeple, looking only out for yourself and calling 911 instead of taking a proactive approach and taking out the robber.

          For my comments, I make my point, I argue it, and if I have to, I will admit defeat. It’s called proper debate. I stick to my views until I am proved wrong, or I just don’t want to argue anymore, at which point I admit defeat and move on. Curiously, something I never do, is trick others into believing they won the argument, simply by posting in a completely different comment thread. After all, I believe in a fair argument, something you also don’t believe in.

          I’ve been told not to use the word coward to describe you, so I’ll try not to. You are deeply flawed. We all have flaws, aspects of ourselves that we are ashamed of. Well, except for you. You seem to take pride in your shortcomings instead of working to improve them.

          You really should get rid of your guns and go back to your slingshot, or a pellet gun. That way, you can carry something around and still run away if real trouble rears its head.

      2. avatar Don says:

        No idiot, it makes me smart. Why would anyone but an idiot risk everything that they have for a store owner who might sue them for discharging a weapon in their store? Not to mention the wrongful death suit you would get for killing the POas robber, and in Mass you would pay. What makes you keyboard cowboys think you know anything about reality? I’m not a coward. You’re a jerk.

        1. avatar Don says:

          F the store owner, let him die, I don’t owe him jack. My weapon is for MY protection, not the worlds. You guys who say you would shoot the robber are incredibly stupid and Nieve. You’ll end up in jail, or penniless or both and you’ll deserve it. Try calling the cops next time.

        2. avatar Gralnok says:

          Wow. So much cowardice in one post. Why not go all out and give the robber your gun, wallet, social security number, and cellphone too? I’m glad most others would actually do something to help. I guess there are exceptions to everything.

        3. avatar Gralnok says:

          Oh, I forget to mention the old adage.
          When seconds count, the cops are minutes away.

        4. avatar OmnivorousBeorn says:

          @Gralnok Although our opinion could stem from cowardice, I don’t think there’s enough evidence to say that. Personally, I think it potentially stems from selfishness, loss-aversion, and mostly a distaste for killing strong enough to make us risk our own lives and the lives of others for our consciences.

          Enough with the cowardice accusations. It borders on trolling.

        5. avatar Gralnok says:

          Very well, but I would still say it’s selfish and dishonorable to see someone in need of aid, to be able to do something about the situation, and then to calmly walk a away.

        6. avatar OmnivorousBeorn says:

          Fair enough.

        7. avatar Don says:

          Gralock you’re an idiot who has no idea how to handle a situation like that, you obviously have no idea how to deal with an armed encounter and you would probably end up killing the clerk, a passer by, or shooting your own foot. You should stay the hell away from guns and definitely stay away from armed intervention. You are a danger to society.

        8. avatar Gralnok says:

          Don, the only danger to society is you. Why don’t you give up your guns to someone willing to do something about evil, instead of letting it walk all over you and more importantly, the rest of society. In fact, what are you even doing on this site? If you see something wrong and can do something about it, you do it! End of discussion!

  26. avatar jwm says:

    Why not slide out of the store and then rob the robber as he’s coming out? Get his watch, wallet, money and shoes. If he has car keys jack his shit and go to the address in his wallet. Loot the f*ck out of his shit. Then sell his ride to a chop shop and pawn his shit.

    Now that would be justice. 🙂

  27. avatar TwoJohnsonsAreBetterThanOne says:

    I wouldn’t interfere – that could be a tax collector going about his business.

  28. avatar ironicatbest says:

    If the perp wasn’t threating me , I’d casually walk away, if he had the clerk on the ground and was going to stab them, I’d kick the perp in the head

  29. avatar Jared says:

    What are the odds that everyone in that video were Clinton and Warren voters? I’m thinking 100 to 0.

  30. avatar David says:

    If the Guy that walked off had a Gun…. First it is his call & his call was to NOT get involved.
    Personally I THINK I would back off & got ready to draw & take him out or Hold him for Cops.
    But Drawing & saying Freeze Might get the Clerk Cut & or Killed, so I do not think he should Jump In just yet.
    If the Bad Guy Cut the Clerk I would have Drawn & done what I would think is my Duty to help a Fellow Human being.
    I have seen Videos where People think “Aww it’s a Knife? I can handle this” then Die. (no gun)
    I have seen Videos where the Clerk said NOPE and Died.
    No one wants to Die. No (good guy) wants to Kill someone Criminal or not.

    So your Question is kind of hard to answer. I think Most would be smart to get the F Away from it unless they have a Gun. No Gun I still think I would have backed off but Looked for a Weapon to use to assist if it came down to it.
    BUT I Carry Always, & he would not have gone anywhere once he thought he was finished.

  31. avatar Gunr says:

    You gotta give the robber credit for having balls! Pulling a knife on a guy in a dark ally is one thing, but trying to rob a store with a dozen people at close hand, when you don’t have a gun……….

  32. avatar Aaron M. Walker says:

    Just another day in The People’s Republic of Massachusetts! Or as they say at TTAG: “This is what happens to a Disarmed Population…” Gun Control utopia: One of the Eastern Bloc Communist, Police-States. Where the MA. Democratic Representatives have recently stated that-” there is NO 2ND AMENDMENT RIGHT IN THE STATE OF MASSACHUSETTS! Only a Privilege that is barely tolerated by the Democratic politicians and law enforcement community of the state…” I believe this would constitute as (admission) of a definition of an ” Authoritarian, Police-State…” Police in this area are crowing THEY will quickly arrest the perps involved in various robberies throughout the state…And of course, on New England news stations. Local Police adding Anti-Self defense comments about leaving it to the “professions and NOT using weapons of any kind to protect yourself…” I’m just shocked the Local police didn’t find anything to charge any of the store owners, or clerks….And That concludes this report from “The New England state where the Women stand up to Pee….”

  33. avatar Ran Simmons says:

    If I had a child with me I’d just vacate the place, but otherwise I’d shoot the perp.

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