Question of the Day: Which Way Is America Going, California or Arizona?

States recognizing Arizon's [optional] carry permit (courtesy

Arizona has, arguably, America’s best gun laws. By best I mean fewest. Any debate over who has the worst gun laws is likely to be more contentious, given that Hawaii hasn’t issued a concealed carry permit since 2000, New Jersey bans hollow point ammunition and owning a bump fire stock in Massachusetts could get you life in prison. But let’s face it, California is . . .

where gun rights go to die. Or, more precisely, where new forms of civilian disarmament are born. To wit: this morning’s quote of the day on a bill to encourage CA residents to ban themselves from firearms purchases.

In fact, no gun control law is too 2A defiling for the Golden State’s doyennes of disarmament. Laws enabling new and virulent forms of government tyranny.

No surprise there, right? Check this out [via]:

Calderon, the Democratic majority leader in California’s lower house, has introduced a bill to stop sit-down restaurants from offering customers straws with their beverages unless they specifically request one. Under Calderon’s law, a waiter who serves a drink with an unrequested straw in it would face up to 6 months in jail and a fine of up to $1,000.

“We need to create awareness around the issue of one-time use plastic straws and its detrimental effects on our landfills, waterways, and oceans,” Calderon explained in a press release.

Connecting the dots between gun control and control control is child’s play. But which way is the wider American playhouse going? Towards the California model of tyranny or the Arizona model of freedom?


  1. avatar jwm says:

    Arizona. If the never Trumpers had had their way, CA.

    Gorsuch and a slew of other Trump appointees will have us on the right track by the time we give him his second term.

    Once the DOJ gets rolling on the criminal conspiracy that is sanctuary cities and states we will see a lot of the gun grabber types running for cover.

    1. avatar HP says:

      Your optimism is refreshing, I’m going to try to think positive like this.

    2. avatar Ing says:

      I hope you’re right, but California has such a huge population that a 5% net out-migration of Californians who bring their socialist nanny-state with them could swamp the freedom-minded people in all the neighboring states. We’re already headed there in Washington and Oregon.

      1. avatar neiowa says:

        Imagine the positive impact on Kommifornia if the 10% of the population went back where they are supposed to be living!. AND then add in the # which were improperly or illegally allowed in.

        1. avatar BGryphon says:

          Imagine the impact if all of the conservatives here actually voted. I have seen numbers that suggest a 40% conservative turnout would sweep the state. For so much internet outrage, there are very few actually voting our way.

      2. avatar Mike from Ohio says:

        We need to tell these people the same thing we aught to tell immigrants from countries with totalitarian governments. “Why are you voting to create the system you left?”

      3. avatar Marty says:

        There has already been a rush of Kalifornians into AZ and Montana. The Prescott Valley in AZ and the Bitteroot Valley in Western MT. So far the worst thing they have brought are a huge increase in home prices. I doubt either state will suffer from anti gun sentiment anytime soon, or maybe ever.

    3. avatar Jonathan-Houston says:

      The only, slight, difference is in speed, not direction.

      Don’t believe me? Go ask President “Amnesty and citizenship for the Dreamers” Trump. Who are they and their litters going to vote for? When this latest amnesty prompts even more millions of illegal aliens to invade the U.S., just like the last round of amnesty inspired this wave, do you believe they will be denied amnesty, too? Who do you think they’ll vote for after they get it?

      California here we come!

      1. avatar emfourty gasmask says:

        You should read the proposal in it’s entirety. I would be really surprised if more than a third of them could actually qualify under the offered terms.

      2. avatar HP says:

        It might be a good way to mitigate eventual damage. At some point, the Democrats will re-take the White House and Congress. When that happens, amnesty won’t be the order of the day, open borders will. Or at least something much worse than what’s in the Trump proposal. At the very least, now Trump and the GOP will be able to say “you got your citizenship from the Republicans.” Honestly, I’d bet the Democrats are probably upset that Trump has compromised as much as he has – they wanted this victory to be theirs, not his. Will most of the newly minted citizens vote Democrat? Probably, but not as many as if they’d be forced to wait for the Democrats to grant them citizenship.

        1. avatar Publius says:

          The illegals will vote Democrat if given amnesty again. Regan gave them amnesty before and did they vote Republican? Hell no, because Republicans aren’t about giving everyone handouts. If Trump gives them amnesty, he’ll have violated his biggest campaign promise and throw away his easy re-election.

      3. avatar Geoff PR says:

        Johnathan, I don’t like it either, but it *is* going to happen. They want it *that* bad.

        Let’s use that greed of the Leftists wanting ‘Dreamers’ legalized to get what we want in return.

        What we need to do is have them piggy-back 50 state carry at the last minute onto it.

        John Bosh, are you reading? Ask them to cram the 50 state carry on that ‘Dreamers’- Wall bill…

        1. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

          It* doesn’t matter. The Democrats won’t compromise on anything. They’re not giving Trump anything he wants. Come the March “deadline,” Trump should just start deporting the 800,000 “Dreamers” that Obama so helpfully registered.

          *Trump’s entire immigration proposal and the whole DACA issue.

    4. avatar Ivan says:

      AZ is right next door to us here in New Mexico, but the carry laws and other gun laws are not similar. For example, On November 30, 2016, a new DPS rule in the carry law virtually eliminated reciprocity with other states. On that date, a new rule specifies that RESIDENTS of New Mexico cannot carry concealed without a New Mexico license. However, tourists, visitors, temporary employees, etc. MAY CARRY with any other state license for UP TO 90 DAYS. I have had a Texas non-resident license for over 20 years, far longer than New Mexico has had a Concealed Carry law. When they did pass it (signed by Gov. Bill Richardson, a Democrat) they instituted reciprocity with a number of states, including Texas. Now, I, as a New Mexico Resident and Taxpayer for over 40 years, can no longer carry with my Texas license. I am too old to bother to get a New Mexico license. Maintaining a Texas license is hard enough. So when that one expires I will either stop carrying or carry illegally. We live on a ranch and have been gun folks forever. So I can carry everywhere on my ranch, shoot any kind of gun I own, without fear of arrest (at least for now). The state legislature is not of a mind to convince the DPS to change back, so in effect New Mexico no longer has TRUE reciprocity. This is the kind of thing that can sneak up on you. The NRA and SAF and GOA seem uninterested in pursuing this.

  2. avatar Russ in AK says:

    In my view, America is moving toward two Americas. One, built on the framework of California, and one that resembles Arizona. It used to be that the vast majority of people were very “middle of the road” when it came to all things politics, and many simply didn’t care because it didn’t affect them. But the demographic landscape is changing.

    Anymore, government has become so intrusive that it’s not possible to live without acknowledging it, because the effects of the things they do are impacting our day to day lives more and more. And the more prevalent that becomes, the more divisive it becomes. Some are being pushed to Arizona, others to California. It’s only a matter of time before the fence straddlers exist no longer. And when that becomes the case, America won’t be one nation, it will be two.

    Personally, you’ll find me in free America.

    1. avatar Geoff PR says:

      “In my view, America is moving toward two Americas.”

      Russ gets it.

      A stark polarization is happening, and it it accelerating.

      Constitutionally, we are hanging on by our fingernails. We need another Leftist or Kennedy to vacate the bench in the next 2 years to give us a bit of breathing room on the Court. If we get that, we have a good chance of solidifying gun rights, although states like Cali and Mass will do their damnedest to make gun owners lives as miserable as possible. I expect them to go to yearly licensing, draconian fees, or anything else they can dream up to piss us off…

    2. avatar BLoving says:

      We had a “two Americas” layout before. Where some states respected the natural, civil rights of all humans – and some that didn’t. It didn’t work out that well…
      Keep pounding the gun bigots from that angle: that we cannot be a free people as long as there are citizens who think it’s okay for the government to restrict, license, regulate, infringe or just outright ban the civil rights of their fellow citizens.

      1. avatar California Richard says:

        Yep… but, we’ll be the half with the guns….. and the water, and the livestock, and the crops, and the oil, and the whole interior of the continent….. yes, “we”…. I don’t come from “that” California, I just work there and take their money.

    3. avatar ATFAgentBob says:

      Well stated and we’re getting closer to that day with every government intrusion on our rights. Every piece of liberal legislation for the children, for safety, or for equality brings us one step closer to that day. I only hope we end up with 2 Americas and not a cheap copy of 1984.

    4. avatar Omer says:

      It would be nice if we could just separate peacefully, but the last time that was tried about a million people died in a bloody invasion. I don’t have hope in man or state.

      1. avatar TexTed says:

        Depends on which mindset rules the federal office at the time. Right now California is talking CalExit, or even splitting into two states, the leftist California and the free New California. I cannot see the current federal mindset being one of invasion and takeover; instead I think they’re more along my lines — if you refuse to be American, then get the hell out of America.

        On the other hand, if a micromanager liberal control freak were in control, and Texas was Texiting, and the control freaks saw all that potential tax base moving towards liberation, I could very well see them sending in the troops.

        1. avatar California Richard says:

          What troops? If it came to that, most troops wouldn’t lift a finger to bring Texas back at the point of a gun and a good fraction of the remainder would actively fight for Texas.The remainder would be an ill trained, poorly lead, and poorly motivated rabble…. go read “Indian Country”.

        2. avatar Geoff PR says:

          Texas is in far better shape to “Texit” than nearly any other state, since the vast majority of the state has its own electric grid, the “Texas Interconnect”, excepting the panhandle and a few places on the east side of the state:

          That is *huge* when you want to tell the rest of the country to go fvck themselves…

        3. avatar Publius says:

          What kind of drugs are you on, Richard? The military would love to stop any citizens from peacefully leaving. Hell, we had about half a dozen instances of US soldiers attacking Americans on US soil in the last century alone.

      2. avatar Publius says:

        That’s because the last time people tried to peacefully leave, we had a tyrannical piece of shit in the White House who only cared about his own power.

    5. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

      The biggest problem with “two Americas” is, ever since the Reconstruction Amendments and Wickard v. Filburn, our federal system has moved pretty close to a winner take all unitary system of government.

  3. avatar John says:

    And sadly the State of Washington is now attempting to rival CA with a spate of new legislation to punish legal, responsible firearms owners. It is only a matter of time before those of us in Oregon will be looking at the same fate. That’s what you get when well more than 50% of the population are centered in large metro areas controlled by the democrat party.

    1. avatar HP says:

      Hi, rural upstate New Yorker here, you’re not wrong.

    2. avatar Ollie says:

      The Nation’s best hope is that those Big Blue Cities collapse under the burdens of Running Out O Other People’s Money, increasing urban violence, and massively underfunded municipal pension obligations. California will run out of water soon, too, unless they ban families with more than two children..

      It will be a close race.

    3. avatar Rick NV says:

      WA and OR are not alone in the “califoniaization” NV is very close to it also due to the large number of CA liberals moving to Clark and Washoe counties.

  4. avatar RogUinta says:

    Frankly, I’m worried that Arizona is heading towards Kommiefornia, because of all the influx of them moving across the boarder and voting for liberal whack-jobs.

    I’m trying to enjoy my freedom in AZ for as long as I can before it becomes just another suburb of LA.

    1. avatar =BCE56= says:

      Rog- I see this statement fairly often, not sure I completely agree. But I see it from my side of the Commiefornia border.
      Are the libtards moving out, or conservatives?

      When I leave this Failed Nanny State it will lose one hard-working, tax-paying conservative voter.
      The state I move to will gain one.

      1. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

        As it is economic forces forcing people out, not political ones, I’d bet it’s pretty close to a representative cross section of California’s population.

  5. avatar BlazinTheAmazin says:

    Proud AZ resident right here. Our gun laws truly are as good as it gets. I can drive around with an SBR/MG with 100 round drum and 1 in the chamber without any hassle. I could legally open carry said set up as well if I wanted. I prefer to stay more low key but it’s nice to have options.

    1. avatar Swarf says:

      I assume the streets run with the blood of the innocent, yes?

      1. avatar NJ2AZ says:

        It’s the Venice of the southwest!

        1. avatar Gralnok says:

          This comment made my day. 😂

  6. avatar Thomas J. Morris III says:

    Hollow Point ammunition is not banned in New Jersey. Where do people get this from? One cannot possess it for an unlawful purpose or carry it in a weapon with a carry permit. Read NJSA 2C:39(3)(g)(2) which follows 2C:39 (3)(f). Other than the above, anyone that can own ammunition can own/buy/transport/target shoot/hunt/possess/defend their homes with it without any problems. And yes they have carry permits in New Jersey. Thomas J. Morris III Major USMCR (retired), Member NJ/PA/OH Bars

    1. avatar Geoff PR says:

      “And yes they have carry permits in New Jersey. ”

      Really, Mr. Morris? How about for people not politically connected?

      Can any law-abiding citizen that has no criminal record apply for and be granted a carry permit after filling out the paperwork?

      Here in Florida, if one is not a criminal or drug addict, they have no problem getting a carry permit.

      Is that the same in New Jersey?

      (I’m an ex-resident of NJ. Medford, to be specific…)

      1. avatar Thomas J. Morris III says:

        Nope. A little harder here. You have to take a class unless you teach the class and you have to qualify unlike Florida that simply requires a demonstration of competence which is waived for prior military or LE. The court also wants to know why you want it and requires a demonstration of “need” and I suppose that is different depending on which County you are in. I know at least seven non-LE types that have them in New Jersey and none of them are politically connected. I just like to ensure that perception matches reality so the other side cannot use a misrepresentation of the status quo against us when judging credibility.
        Best regards,
        Thomas J. Morris III
        Major USMCR (retired)
        Member NJ/PA/OH Bars
        Treasurer NJ Association of Firearms Retailers

        1. avatar Casey says:

          “The court also wants to know why you want it and requires a demonstration of “need””

          So, no right to bear arms, then.

        2. avatar Aaron M. Walker says:

          Obviously you must be politically connected…Since you have an awfully long title of knight hood attached to your name…

        3. avatar Thomas J. Morris III says:

          Actually, I was fired by the Governor for testifying against the Attorney General before the Senate Judiciary Committee during the Assault Weapons ban hearings in Trenton in April of 1990. I beg to differ with you sir. I have zero political connections in New Jersey (or anywhere else).

        4. avatar Matt(TX) says:

          You Sir, are defending the laws of a corrupt anti-gun state. “You can have hollow points you just can’t load them into a gun and use them when you need them the most”, FUDD much?

        5. avatar Hank says:

          Thomas you are a clown.

        6. avatar Thomas J. Morris III says:

          You are entitled to your opinion. I hope for the sake of the cause that you are wrong. And given what I have sacrificed for the cause in New Jersey (money/job/position), you are obviously not involved in any way, shape, or form with the struggles we have fought here politically these last 30 years. Yes, we lost the Assault Weapons ban despite my testimony before the Senate. And unlike Horatio before Porsenna and the 90,000, I did not survive any more than any of the other witnesses all of whom they crucified afterward and the Left had other routes to Rome and the hearings were just a show anyway. That did not make me a clown. It only made me one more casualty in what is now in New Jersey nothing more than a tournament against windmills when it comes to this issue. At least they did not kill me. When they forced my friend Bill to resign (he also testified), he drank himself to death. I make certain that what I write is true. When someone writes something that isn’t, I try to correct it before it becomes another problem. Our side has enough problems as it is.

        7. avatar tiger says:

          I think they must spray LSD on NJ Tomatoes? Because you see a very trippy version of the New Jersey I do from across the River. All is well for gun owners & Carry permits are as numerous as dandelions? Ok……….. Those are some powerful tomatoes…….

    2. avatar BLoving says:

      Yeah, RIGHT? Don’t know a judge? Elected politician doesn’t owe you any favors? No permit for you!
      And since you gun was being carried illegally (locked, in the trunk) and you had some hollowpoints in the vicinity – you were commuting a crime with them and will now be charged for those too!
      No sir, I think we have a pretty good handle on what our civil rights are worth there.

    3. avatar JDFowlerton says:

      It’s may not be outright banned but even some NJ residents think it is.

      I’m in TX and used to work at an Academy Sports. One day we had a couple guys come in with a friend of theirs buying ammo to take them to a gun range. One of them asked a question about defensive vs range ammo and when I told them that defensive is usually a hollow point they couldn’t believe it. Then the friend told them that pretty much everyone carries hollow points all the time, unless they were in Jersey or a gun range, and that they’re actually safer than FMJ. The guy just had no idea because he had never done anything with a gun out of state before.

    4. Wrong, Thomas J. Morris III. I am a New Jersey resident and gun owner., and hollow-point ammo is banned in New Jersey. You might also be surprised to learn that, in New Jersey, all guns are banned — and then the state carves out certain limited exceptions. Similarly, all hollow-point ammo is banned in New Jersey, and then the state carves out only two exceptions where hollow-points are allowed: target shooting at a legally-recognized gun club, and hunting (but New Jersey doesn’t allow hunting with handguns or rifles, only with shotguns, so the exception that allows hollowpoints for hunting is a moot point!)

      SELF-DEFENSE AND HOME DEFENSE are NOT, I repeat NOT, on New Jersey’s list of approved uses for hollow-point ammunition! In NJ, you are ONLY allowed to buy hollow-point ammunition, transport it between the store and your home, store it in your home, and transport it between your home and a gun club, but not allowed to carry it anywhere else, or use it anywhere other than the gun club. (Again, NJ doesn’t allow hunting with rifles or handguns, only shotguns, so you can’t carry it while hunting, either). If you use hollow-point ammunition for home defense, you can be arrested and convicted for a felony and put in prison for years. You might say, “Surely no jury would convict me for using hollow-points to defend my life at home, right?” but the majority of New Jersey residents are anti-gun bigots, gun haters who would be all too eager to lock up a gun owner if given the chance, so don’t count on it, especially because the prosecutor will judge tell the jury, “That’s the law, and you must enforce the law.”

      The NJ law specifically bans “hollow-point” ammo, not expanding ammo, so even Open-Tip Match rifle ammunition is illegal in NJ (despite the fact that OTM Match is not expanding, the hollow tip of OTM Match ammo is for accuracy)! However, expanding ammo that is not hollowpoint is allowed (go figure). So get yourself some Federal Guard Dog expanding full metal jacket (EFMJ), Corbon Powerball, or Ruger Polycase ARX ammo, and you’ll have expanding defensive ammo that’s legal in NJ (although expensive and hard to find).

      Also, you’re wrong in saying that NJ issues carry permits. They don’t, they simply don’t, unless you’re a cop or a politician.

      1. avatar Thomas J. Morris III says:

        You are wrong. Unless they have changed the NJ Game Laws in the last 24 hours, you have been able to hunt ground hogs in NJ with rifles in the majority of the Counties for as long as I can remember and hollow point ammunition is listed as approved ammunition. Most people use a .223 or .222 or 22-250 Hollow Point.

        As for the rest, you can do anything with hollow point ammunition on your own property that you could do with any other type of ammunition. That is black and white. No gray area. I cannot think of anything you could do with any other type of ammunition, except with a carry permit, that you cannot do with hollow point ammunition. As for home defense. if it is a good shooting, you will be fine. If it is a bad shooting, the ammunition is the least of your problems. And they do not have “felonies” in New Jersey.

        As for carry permits, police/corrections/LE officers do not require carry permits in NJ pursuant to 2C:39(6) so NO LE officer has one as they do not need them so it would be incorrect to say no one has them but “cops” since I do not know a single cop that has one in New Jersey. Retired officers do have permits that are issued by the NJSP. Non-LE types apply through the Court system. And you certainly do not have to be a politician to have one as while I know a number of people with non LE carry permits in New Jersey, none of them are politicians.

        Thomas J. Morris III
        Major USMCR (retired)
        Member NJ/PA/OH Bars
        Treasurer NJ Association of Firearms Retailers
        NJ Firearms Law Instructor Gloucester County
        Police Academy 1989-31DEC2014
        Largest Domestic Federal/CCI/Speer LE Ammunition
        Distributor in US
        NJ State Contractor Federal Cartridge ammunition and
        Remington Arms ammunition and firearms and firearms

        1. avatar Geoff PR says:

          The people you know with permits, Mr. Morris, what county would that be? I have family in Cape May county.

          If you personally know non-politically connected people in Cape May county that have carry permits, I’ll let them know to apply.

          (I see you’re likely in Gloucester County, that’s closer to Philly than Atlantic City…)

        2. avatar Thomas J. Morris III says:

          Gloucester and Salem and Camden. They still have to have a reason. Make sure they talk to their Police Chief and the County Assistant Prosecutor that deals with them before they apply so they know which way they will recommend. And the new Governor had a speech today that he was going to undo the lessening of restrictions that Christie initiated after that woman got stabbed to death in Camden County in her driveway.

        3. Thomas J. Morris III:
          You claim, “they do not have “felonies” in New Jersey.”
          So, you’re saying that if you commit murder in New Jersey, it’s only a misdemeanor (punishable by less than one year in prison)?
          So, when you fill out your Form 4473 in NJ, and you’ve been imprisoned for multiple years for a serious crime, you’re saying you can answer “No” to the question that asks if you’ve ever been convicted of a felony? Good luck with that defense when the Feds come to lock you up for lying on your Form 4473!
          A felony is, by DEFINITION, any crime punishable by more than one year in prison (as you well know, wiseass). Whether NJ calls it a “felony” or calls it “a crime of the first order” is irrelevant, it’s still a felony. Don’t claim New Jersey doesn’t have felonies, unless you think murder is a misdemeanor here in the Garden State! Then go commit a murder and expect to be let off on a misdemeanor charge, LOL, good luck with that, murder is a felony here just like it’s a felony in every state.

          And if you claim that hollowpoints are allowed for home defense, then why does the New Jersey State Police say otherwise? (Granted, it’s hard to get a consistent answer from the NJ State Police, as sometimes they say that Hornady Critical Defense is not hollowpoint, and other times they say it is, so to be safe you should stick to FMJ in NJ).

        4. avatar Thomas J. Morris III says:

          We have degrees, not felonies. If someone is going to use a legal term of art, be correct, or the other side will beat us over the head with it.

          Anytime anyone who purports to be a proponent of the 2A appears irrational, he or she becomes an impediment to the advancement of the cause and to quote Pogo, “we have met the enemy and he is us”. Rest assured the other side will use it against us.

          As for the rest, I prosecuted for a number of years in New Jersey (that career ended very shortly after I testified against the NJ AG during the NJ Assault Weapons Ban hearings) and I taught New Jersey firearms law for two police academies (4.22 DCJ) for 26 years more or less. Anywhere you can legally possess a firearm loaded with hollow point ammunition (eg: on your property) and the situation dictates that the use of deadly force is justified, you may legally use it in your defense. You are simply wrong.

    5. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      Mr. Morris,

      How many current concealed carry permits are there in New Jersey? Last I heard it was something like 1,500 for the entire state of 9 million. If that 1,500 number is anywhere in the ballpark, then it is more than fair to say that New Jersey is a de facto no-issue state.

      Remember, of those 1,500 permits (if accurate), many of them will be for government employees and politicians (both active and retired). That would mean even fewer are actually issued to “common folk”.

      1. avatar Thomas J. Morris III says:

        Don’t know. I do know that RETIRED LE (police/troopers/corrections/parole/ABC/Fish and Wildlife/Human Services/Sheriff’s officers, Prosecutors and AP’s and their detectives.investigators, etc.) get permits through the NJSP and there are thousands of those and they would not be counted in any “count” of NJ standard carry permits.

        The number, as a % of the overall population, is not as meaningful as it would be in a red State because of that and another thing. Which is the rub of it. Biggest problem is that there just aren’t that many pro-2A people in NJ. In the great scheme of things, combined, our votes are relatively meaningless. And unfortunately, what few of our 2A rights we have left are about to become a pawn in a national struggle between the progressive left and the President.

        I just try to make sure that what is being written is true as I am so sick and tired of being beaten on by the progressive left with comments by people ostensibly on our side. Yes, it is more difficult to be issued a carry permit in New Jersey than it is for a domiciliary of Pennsylvania to get issued a Pennsylvania permit. It is not true that only cops (none of whom have a NJ permit because they do not need them) and politicians (I do not know one that has one) have them and putting that in print as well as disparaging the Judiciary discredits valid arguments made in other venues.

        If people want to say that it is difficult to get a permit in New Jersey compared to some other States, that is true. You have to have a reason above and beyond just wanting one. And that isn’t the problem, it is the symptom of the problem, that being that the State of the law is what the majority of the voters in New Jersey want and I don’t know how to change that. And they will push that infringement to the very brink of what is Constitutionally permissible.

        All we can hope for is that they go over the edge and the Federal Court System will step in.

  7. avatar MamaLiberty says:

    Can’t agree on AZ. Too damned close to Calif.

    There isn’t ANY statute or law on open carry in Wyoming, never was. And no “permit” for CC. Only time the federal “laws” honestly apply are if you get caught on their “property,” and nobody does a stop and search here anyway.

    I’d agree that America is headed toward a split up of massive proportions, just don’t think it will be peaceful or pleasant. Everybody, it seems, wants to control everybody else, even among the gun owners.

    A friendly divorce would suit me just fine, but I suspect that’s too much to hope for.

    1. avatar Blkojo says:

      Close yet far. Thankfully so.

  8. avatar Timothy V Noecker says:

    I Thought Texas Was The Most Gun-Friendly State In The Union?

    1. avatar tdiinva says:

      You are missing the /sarc tag.

      Texas is Minnesota enhanced.

      1. avatar Matt(TX) says:

        Can’t argue with your statement, but we are getting better. (Knives and guns)

    2. avatar TXGunGal says:

      We were until it was discovered that Texas housing cost was much less than California along with no state income tax. Of course people bring with them the values they had where they lived before. When a democrat senate dictated English be spoken in Fredericksburg TX schools, instead of German. The voters were not happy campers
      I have a bumper sticker that says “Don’t California My Texas” Have the tee shirt too. I’m a one issue voter
      for Right to bear arms. I’m also an old fart child of the 60’s but never a hippy. Where I live in Texas women are addressed as Mam, not Ms
      Texas maybe not the best state for gun Rights but wouldn’t live anywhere else.
      BTW: go to a gun range in Texas and see how many young people are there.
      Where there is Life, there is hope

      1. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

        Ms. is used like Mr. Ma’am is like sir. We do use Ms. in Texas.

  9. avatar Behind the lines in the PRK says:

    The cancer is already spreading in Tucson. I don’t know how you stop it. I can’t remember a time when my opinion/vote made a difference here in California. I’d have to go with the two countries scenario as the lessor of the two evils.

    1. avatar fred says:

      Nuke it from orbit, it’s the only way to be sure.

    2. avatar Blkojo says:

      I moved to Mesa in September, after living in Tucson for decades. Tucson is infected. Probably terminally.

      1. avatar Gralnok says:

        Examples please? I am a resident and as far as I know, Tucson is as free and gun loving as the rest of the state. Unless I’m living under a sun baked rock.

  10. avatar Ralph says:

    We are not moving toward Two Americas. We are moving toward No America.

    As an old timer, I won’t see the plan come to fruition. However, if George Soros and his lackeys have their way, future generations won’t be able to distinguish America from any other Third World sh!th0le.

  11. avatar Timothy V Noecker says:

    “As an old timer, I won’t see the plan come to fruition. However, if George Soros and his lackeys have their way, future generations won’t be able to distinguish America from any other Third World sh!th0le.”

    As a Semi-Old Timer, I Think George Soros Is The Devil!!!

    1. avatar Jay in Florida says:

      It wont matter what Soros wants. He will be dead and gone soon enough. Not soon enough for me but gone none the less. Same with Bloombug. Its their followers we have to worry about.
      What billionaire scumbag is next that will try and force their will on the people??

      Me I believe were are more on the way to a split. 2 Americas. Its inevitable. The East and West coasts with one populous thought. Then the rest of us.

      1. avatar Ralph says:

        Soros and Bloomberg will be gone, but their money will continue to bend us over. Just like Beatrice Joyce is dead but her money lives on in the despicable Joyce Foundation.

        Billions of dollars don’t just disappear. The evil that men do lives long after their bones have turned to dust.

        1. avatar BLoving says:

          Ralph: “I want ‘The evil that men do lives long after their bones have turned to dust’ as my epitaph!”
          Mrs. Ralph: “Of course. The arrangements are already made.”

        2. avatar uncommon_sense says:

          What Ralph said.

          On top of that, there are new billionaires that will be imposing their standards on us sooner or later. I am thinking Bezos is high on that candidate list along with Zuckerberg. (And Heaven help us if they ever partner up since they are worth almost $200 billion combined.)

          This brings up an interesting point: is it time to apply anti-trust law to multi-billionaires? Unelected and unaccountable people who control 2+ billion dollars are a ginormous potential threat to our republic, much more-so than a corporation that has no competition.

  12. avatar strych9 says:

    [Apologies in advance for the length of this analysis.]

    Both sides, er directions.. er… whatever move in their preferred direction in fits and starts. They suffer setbacks, losses and they have wins and victories.

    Ultimately when we talk about gun rights, gun control or just guns in general we’re talking about politics and one of the more astute observations about politics that I’ve seen in the last 100 or so years came from Andrew Breitbart when he noted that “politics is downstream from culture”. IMHO this has a number of ramifications in relation to the QOTD, not all of which I’ll bother covering here.

    The first thing to note is that baring intervention, probably from a Federal Court, a number of states within the Union are already lost. California is among them. The culture of the coastal folks is strongly anti-gun and they unfortunately outnumber our good brothers and sisters who reside in the interior of the State. We’ve lost the culture war in this state and therefore lost the political war before it even started.

    A second thing of note is that the Constitution has become passé. We can argue “rights” and so forth until we’re blue in the face. It’s losing argument at this point. Now, IMHO, that’s mostly due to a flat out shitty educational system that not only poorly educates but also indoctrinates. That’s really neither here nor there. That point remains that basing our argument on history/facts/the Constitution etc is still a losing argument. You can’t win an argument based on facts that people don’t know. It’s like arguing gun control with livestock: They don’t get it.

    The third thing that I would note is that as much shit as millennials get they do seem to understand on some level the importance of gun rights. A fair bit of polling has been done on the attitudes of my generation and it comes out to be pretty uneven from a “traditional” point of view. Millennials seem to be increasingly rejecting gun control (18-29 year olds have the lowest approval rating of a renewed AWB for example while they also have the highest support for CCW at 66% 15-16% higher than even OFWG’s). At the same time they seem to favor other things that don’t traditionally go along with gun rights, such as LGBTQ “rights”.

    So when we think about how the country might go, Arizona model, Cali model, split as some suggest above… well it all depends on how we play our cards. Millennials would seem to offer a great deal of hope for gun rights, at least based on polling, which is a good thing. Of course they would seem to much more Libertarian in their overall views so alienating them on culture is probably unwise as it may drive them into the arms of politicians who are more aligned with the other views Millennials hold at the expense of gun rights.

    My take is this: The country will continue to be polarized on a great number of issues for some time to come. Gun rights are, for the most part, at best a secondary consideration for most people which means that the “culture wars” are actually MORE important in the overall scheme of things. That’s not to say that fighting for gun rights isn’t important but holding absolutely fast to, say, (no offense here to the seriously religious) Evangelical Christian beliefs in terms of politics WILL, over time, destroy gun rights because pols will get elected by winning on other topics and as a matter of course attack the 2A because it’s part of their belief system even if they don’t wear it on their sleeve right up front.

    No pol gets elected solely on a gun control platform. They have other planks that make up their political platform. Planks that the public generally cares about far more. If we allow the anti’s to win on those planks then we will surely lose on the 2A.

    1. avatar tdiinva says:

      True Libertarianism has nothing to do with sex rights, drug rights or abortion rights regardleas of what RandIans and Rothbardians decree. Libertarianism is about free markets and government as provider of public goods. To the extent that Millennials can be described as Libertarian they fit the former definition. Only a minority of Millennials support free markets and limited government. No matter what they poll on gun rights, their hehavior suggests that they place their faith in government and will not go to the wall for anything other than free stuff provided by the government. Today’s Libertarians are allies and enablers of the left.

      1. avatar strych9 says:

        “Libertarianism is about free markets and government as provider of public goods.”

        …And freedom of association. And free ownership of property. And individual choices. And individual responsibility. And small government. And personal autonomy. And a ton of other shit I’m not going to list here.

        Sorry, what you’ve said here is either not fleshed out properly at all or is a very significant misunderstanding of Libertarianism.

        Libertarianism goes back a long, long way. Before free markets were even a thing. Libertarians are an offshoot of Classical Liberalism, an offshoot that starts early the Enlightenment period and is based on a disagreement over the acceptable scale and scope of government power over people and their day to day lives. Classical Liberals like small government. Libertarians like even smaller government because they believe that the power Classical Liberals would vest in a centralized government will, over time, grow and become abused.

        These ideas go back to before Locke but he really set them down and started the Libertarian school of thought in 1667 with A Letter Concerning Toleration which was an argument about religion that rebutted claims made by Hobbes in Leviathan about the social utility of a single (state sanctioned) religion. Locke continued to attack the underpinnings of a Monarchistic/overly powerful government in his Two Treatises of Government published in 1667. He also published An Essay Concerning Humane Understanding 1689/1690 which concerned itself with human knowledge and how it is accumulated by people and therefore by extension the nature and meaning of self and personal identity.

        These documents are significant to the creation and thought process of Libertarians. These essays did not concern themselves much with markets as that wasn’t Locke’s area of expertise and, as already stated, market economies, as we think of them, didn’t yet exist.

        These are the underpinnings of Libertarianism, not market based economies (which were obviously adopted by Libertarians quite quickly once such markets came into existence). Market economies didn’t really even exist at the time Locke was writing as Mercantilism was the order of the day. Market economies really didn’t start to exist until the late 1700’s, nearly a century later when we started our little experiment here in the US and based a goodly amount of our “market strategy” (for lack of a better term) on the concepts laid down in The Wealth of Nations (1776) by Adam Smith. Mercantilism itself survived in various forms up until the late 1800’s when it was finally (thank God) put out of it’s misery by Capitalism. (A situation that leads to an interesting conversation about Communism and Socialism in the late 19th and into the 20th Centuries and even up to today.)

        So yeah, actually Libertarianism does have to do with “sex rights”, “drug rights” and “abortion rights” as all those things can be slotted into individual choices/responsibility/personal autonomy (all of which are heavily related to Lockeian ideas on self and personal identity) because none of those things are any of your business and they damn sure are not any business of the government’s.

        1. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

          Hobbes was in no way a liberal. He was a statist. He believed the state should be all powerful. He was, however, a “modern” political philosopher whose philosophy was a natural law philosophy. This sort of natural law political philosophy did lead to Locke’ natural law philosophies.

          Libertarian just means liberal. If you look at the history of the words usage, it is used to mean liberal once FDR changed liberal to mean progressive or socialist.

          Market economies have always existed. The basic theories were introduced by Adam Smith, as you point out, in 1776 based on his observations of economies run under mercantilst principles. He lived in Scotland for the vast majority of his life.

          Also, to your original point about millennials, they are also much more pro-life than older generations. (I’m not sure if they’re more pro-life than all older generations, though).

    2. avatar Casey says:

      FYI: Putting quotes around LGBT “rights” doesn’t help you win that culture war.

      I know what you mean (I hope), but you can be technically correct and still rub people the wrong way, even if some of them are into that.

      1. avatar strych9 says:

        A fair point. Such use of ” ” may come off as offensive to some. I didn’t intend it to be so.

        When I use ” ” in that manner I’m referring to the invention of “rights” that by their very existence tend to interfere with the rights of other people.

        A singular example: The rights of the LGBTQ community not to get their feelz hurt as a method for shutting down the free speech of other people who may (or may not) hold an opposing view or simply wish to ask a question. Obviously this isn’t a true 1A issue since it’s not [generally] enforced by a government entity (though it may be in certain institutions of higher learning). However, it’s definitely an application of a speech code which is fairly un-American.

        Sorry for any confusion or offense that I may have created.

  13. avatar Mort says:

    I live in Arizona… and have a kid in college in California, SoCal. My sisters also live in San Jose ‘burbs… they’re antigun parrots, whose names can be found on “the Sandy Hook Promise” list, among other things.

    I travel back and forth between the two states, always stopping at the border to unholster/clear/release/lock-up/roll-my-eyes-n-curse and on the way back in, stop to look-shifty/unlock/insert/rack/holster/clip-on/roll-my-eyes-n-curse …if time and cost permits, I often try my best to plan routes through non-Stalinist states like Utah, Nevada, and the surrounding states like Colorado, New Mexico, Texas Idaho, Montana, Wyoming etc., some have their testy issues– none are California. California is truly ridiculous on so many levels.

    (When I hear the term “micro-aggresssion,” I think of California. The whole state is just… like a yin-yang of either affluent self-absorbed bubble people, and a self-absorbed nihilistic ghetto dump. Is that too harsh? I would argue….)

    From my time in all these surrounding states… I’d like to think that America is “moving towards Arizona.” But then, I have to endure California… and of course, I am not convinced they are ever going to change. What concerns me is this ridiculous paradoxical irony: people fleeing California’s thick, oppressed/depressed air for natural relief– and yet bringing and transplanting their noxious disease of nanny-control to their newly colonized state. Why leave California at all, if you’re just going to move away and then bitch about how your new home isn’t “like California.” Yes, this especially concerns peoples’ (read: non-shooters) ignorant, disdainful view of “gun nuts.”

    If you’re going to move away from California, please, at least accept the gun nuts and their nutty views. Bring the eco-hysteria and virulent hatred of plastic straws if you wish… but leave the 2A rights and the guns be, for god’s sake. The states were fine before you got here.

    In summary: I have no answer. But the question prompted to me to shake my head and rant. California… good lord….


    1. avatar Matt(TX) says:

      “New Mexico, Texas Idaho, Montana, Wyoming etc., some have their testy issues– none are California”
      New Mex is a blue state. Mostly because half the population lives in one county, a county taken over by an influx from Cali. Yet they still have fairly good/pro gun laws. I wonder how long it can last. Kind of a southern Illinois with Albuquerque instead of Chicago.

      1. avatar Matt(TX) says:

        The State police and Albuquerque PD lean towards Gestapo. Sanctuary state also.

    2. avatar Raoul Duke says:

      I would imagine not all California transplants are willing. By that I mean as California continues to make business impossible, companies leave in droves. They then offer employees the option to relocate. Many of those employees like the job and benefits it provides. To continue to make a living they have to leave their beloved California.

      So since they are forced to relocate they have it in their heads to make their new home like their old home simply because they were given no choice if they wanted to keep their wonderful job and benefits. So while there are some stupid people with their heads so far up their rectums they can’t make the connection that their policies are what made California terrible, a good chunk of them never wanted to leave California to begin with but had to so they could keep their great job thus they Californicate their new home.

    3. avatar TX_Lawyer says:


      I’m sorry but my senator is the ass hat who drafted the S.446 which is different from H.R. 38. Specifically in that it does not let citizens of a state carry in their own state under the proposed statute. He is also the ass hat who is pushing FixNICS as a clean bill before reciprocity gets a vote. Basically he is a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

      Every time I do write his office, I get a response to a letter I didn’t write. It’s a response to the issue, but not my points or questions.

      I’ve grown to loathe John Cornyn since I started to pay close attention to what he is doing.

  14. avatar ATFAgentBob says:

    I say we start lopping off the infected states. Jersey, California, Manhattan Isle, Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Oregon let them stand on their own. Let their citizens see just how costly their feel good “soft” socialism really is. Ban them from immigrating to the U.S. let them see the real face of communism/socialism and not just the perfectly toned drop dead gorgeous photoshopped instagram glamour pics their college professors and Hollywood actors showed them. Let these people see the warts, the scars, the open bleeding sores, and the necrotized flesh of what really is communism/socialism.

    They always say ” Oh that won’t happen here.” They never review the proof laid out time and time again in the history books for them. Stalin, Mao, Jong- Il, Hussein, Hitler, Mussolini, Pol Pot, and all the rest have tried again and again to make it work none have succeeded and many have killed millions in the attempt. I’m not talking about foreign armies sent to destroy the regime I’m talking the citizens of their respective nations. Simple fact is THAT SH!T DON’T WORK! NEVER HAS NEVER WILL AND IT WILL KILLS THOUSANDS AS IT FAILS IF YOU’RE LUCKY!

    Like Martin Luther King I too have a dream. I dream that one day the citizens of this once great nation will awaken and realize that the liberal left and the power hungry among us are offering not prosperity for all but slow torturous death for all who would follow or oppose them. They offer not peace but eternal conflict, they offer not equality but a furthering divide between citizens.

    1. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

      I have a dream that black Americans adopt MLK’s views on race and guns. You know, the ones that are now espoused by people on the right and not leftists.

  15. avatar Zhang says:

    California is an imperialistic empire bent on remaking the world in its image. Make no mistake, they are using their population of 39 million as their superweapon to do this. The insane taxes and cost of living are forcing liberal Californians to move out and disperse to the red states where they will turn them blue. The issue of Californians dispersing throughout America will be the greatest threat the Union faces in the next 15-20 years.

    Demographics are another matter. As you can surmise from my name, I am an American of Chinese blood, and I was born and raised in California and I am still here in Los Angeles. I’m one of the few who is traditionalist, nationalist, America-First type who would never vote for a leftist. My people unfortunately vote for Democrats 80% of the time (see: 79% of Asians-Americans voted for Clinton in Nov. 2016). The good news is that Asian-Americans (Orientals, at least) have small families (I’ve never met a Chinese/Japanese/Korean family with more than three children, and even that is rare; 1 or 2 is the norm) and cluster in California, Hawaii, and New York so they will never be a significant voting bloc.

    The bad news is that blacks and Hispanics are a different story.

  16. avatar Bob Watson says:

    I was a teenager in the sixties. I grew up in the midst of racial tensions that fueled massive riots in our major cities, extreme political polarization that split families sparked by the Vietnam war and terrorism by the violent left in the form of bombings, bank robberies, kidnappings, murders of police officers and campus riots. “You don’t believe we are on the eve of destruction” was not just a line from a song. It was a sentiment many of us felt. Our present day leftists are a pale shadow of our past.
    The 68′ gun control act was supposed to mark the end of the 2nd amendment in this country. It did not happen. Since then, citizens of this country have purchased hundreds of millions of new firearms, rolled back the near universal criminalization of carrying a concealed weapon and buried the ATF in applications for tax stamps for NFA items. Our trajectory for the past 50 years has been towards freedom not subjugation.

    1. avatar Ing says:

      You’re right about that, but there’s also been a parallel train of events that doesn’t bode well. They may be shadows of their predecessors, but today’s leftists exert total control over entertainment, news, and education.

      Don’t underestimate the extent to which leftists have weakened American culture and constitutional government. Remember, Hillary won the popular vote. We were thisclose to these people having free rein nationwide:

  17. avatar anarchyst says:

    Quite often, firearms owners are their own worst enemies. The duck hunters don’t like the AR-15 “black rifles” so they see no problem if attempts are made to ban them. The traditional rifle owners don’t like machine guns, so they have no problem with them being legislated out of existence. Some pistol owners see nothing wrong with certain long guns being outlawed just as some rifle owners would have no problem seeing pistols banned.
    Friends, ALL firearms advocates must “hang together” and realize that an assault on ANY means of firearms ownership and self-defense is an assault on ALL forms of firearms ownership and self-defense.
    There is absolutely NO ROOM for complacency among ANY Second Amendment supporters. An attack on one is an attack on ALL…
    ALL firearms laws are unconstitutional on their face. Imagine the hue and cry if “reasonable” restrictions were placed on First Amendment activities, especially with the “mainstream media”. The Second Amendment is clear–what part of “shall not be infringed” do politicians and the media not understand…of course, they understand full well…it’s part of their communist agenda…

    1. avatar binder says:

      Most fudd’s could care less if you own a AR15 or machine gun. What they don’t like is when someone uses them to shoot a bunch of people all gun rights are threatened. And while most anything can accomplish that task, “modern sporting rifles” and machine guns do a much better job of it then their old hunting rifles, at least in the eyes of the public. The Valentine’s Day Massacre could have been accomplished with pump action shotguns, but it wasn’t. And it became one of the key events that triggered the NFA. Just as the use of the P.O.S. Tec 9 in Columbine could have cemented the AWB. And a lot of “fudds” were pissed about the 10 round limits in their handguns.

      1. avatar anarchyst says:

        YOU are guilty of playing into the gun controllers’ hands by demonizing EVERY law abiding citizen who owns a “black rifle”. YOU are making an assumption that the “black rifle owner” is going to commit a grievous crime just for possessing such a weapon.
        YOU, my friend are a FUDD

      2. avatar Raoul Duke says:

        So what do you think happens when those black guns are banned?

        You think anti’s are going to call it quits?

        They want all the guns, stupid!! Your traditional guns are next on the chopping block after they get the “scary” rifles and handguns. Look at Australia where they are arguing over legalizing the import of a lever-action shotgun!! That’s what they want here!!!

        If you didn’t have your head up your rectum you would think strategically that you want the most barriers between the anti’s and your precious, traditional rifles/shotguns.

    2. avatar tiger says:

      Sorry, But that everything goes, No rules stuff is garbage.

      1. avatar Raoul Duke says:


        Thanks for selling out and cozying up with people that hate you thinking you will get scraps from the table like the good little pet that you are!!

    3. avatar LarryinTX says:

      I’d like to add that, many times, what grabbers are trying to sneak past us is a demonstration that their authority is unquestioned. If we accept the mandate that firearms must have serial numbers, for example (a clear infringement), that authority is reinforced. After successfully getting us to allow banning shotguns, for example, it’s all over, they then have the authority to ban whatever they want, including “all firearms”. Close relative to “death by a thousand cuts”.

      1. avatar Arnold S. says:

        I want to get to the level of freedom enjoyed by Swiss residents, where tanks and anti-aircraft weapons are housed in private residences – and the enemies of the USA shall never know which ones. THAT is where I’d like to see the USA headed. This guns-are-for-hunting nonsense ignores the backbone of the 2nd amendment – that of possessing weapons equal to or better than our own government. THAT is where we must all aim, if we are to retain the true power of the 2nd amendment.

  18. avatar Dale from KS says:

    With all due respect to Arizona, I would have to argue that Kansas has the best gun laws. We may have been late to the party but we’ve made up for it. Constitutional Carry, concealed carry, open carry, campus carry and preemption. My personal favorite… for public buildings, if you want to make it to be a gun free zone, actually make it one with security apparatus, personnel, etc, not with a sign on the door. If you have a business and want to ban guns, use this official sign and place it according to our strict requirements, otherwise it’s meaningless. (Very few businesses post gun buster signs.) Plus with my Kansas CCL I can carry from AZ to PN and WA to FL with the only bump in the road being IL.

    1. avatar Zeke Rivers says:

      I assure you, Vermont’s gun laws beat even Kansas. Additionally, we recognize every other’s state’s rights to carry here, but funny how I can’t legally carry in Kansas, because my ‘carry license’ is our VT Constitution.

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        I have to say, even if another state adopts all of VT’s plan, VT still wins the prize as their laws have never changed since they became a state.

        1. avatar Raoul Duke says:

          Except they banned NFA weapons.

        2. avatar Zeke Rivers says:

          The amendment dealing with our right to bear arms first appeared in the 1777 VT Constitution and there was only one change when VT became the 14th State in 1791 –
          what was previously the 15th amendment became the 16th.

      2. avatar Raoul Duke says:

        Vermont bans NFA weapons.

        That is an instant penalty against taking the crown of best gun laws.

    2. avatar ironicatbest says:

      Dale, I’m a Kansas resident also ,can’t remember the pro football players name from Parsons Ks. But he championed hard for our carry laws here, we owe him a hoorah cheer. … It’s a small world, I know two Dales, one lives down by Browns cemetery, and the other had hi school nickname “Horse head”,

  19. avatar surlycmd says:

    None of the above. Other commenter have noted the culture wars. Urban vs rural. The coasts vs flyover country. Two sides of the same coin. Every candidate running for office will tell you what they support and what they don’t. Faith, who can marry who, guns and abortion are some of the divisive issues. People vote for candidates who crap on the opposition. It’s still voting for a statist. It just happens to be statist they agree with.

    Supporting real freedom means supporting the other persons rights even if you don’t like how they exercise their rights. I’m 46 years old and a retired Navy Chief. It took me many years to get to this point of view. But there it is, my .02 cents.

  20. avatar former water walker says:

    I see 2 America’s expanding. He!! Trump lost the popular vote by millions. Where I live in Illinois I can see violence and anarchy breaking out in an instant. Bad cop stop, shooting a perp in the back or Black Lies Blather going nuts…powder dry and stay vigilant.

    1. avatar neiowa says:

      And Hillary got all the illegal and fraudulent vote. Your point?

      1. avatar Jim says:

        *Citation Needed*

        1. avatar Matt(TX) says:

          If you cannot see the Democratic vote fraud machine, you are not looking. We have blue counties in Texas that vote Dem 120% of the entire voting age population.

        2. avatar LarryinTX says:

          OTOH, who cares? Shrillary lost 80% of US counties, 75% of states, and 60% of electoral votes. She was stomped like a bug.

  21. avatar Roman of Texas says:

    I don’t see the right winning on this. I know its pessimistic, but I don’t. Here in TX, liberals are growing in number everyday. All it takes is for business to move to a conservative area (like TX, taxes, ect), then job seekers from liberal started move there, and there you go, red turns blue. I also disagree with Mama liberty-there won’t be a fight. You’ll be long past, so will I, and it’ll happen. They keep multiplying, and that’s that. Gun rights will die with a whimper, not a roar. You’re kidding yourself if you think it will otherwise-otherwise why aren’t you up in arms over HPA, ect? What will be left are those who break the law, both good and bad people. Good folks who understand that the law is meant to be broken when it is unjust (Locke I think). Anyways, just my 2 cents.

  22. avatar Johnny108 says:

    I would like, as a California native, to thank the NRA for abandoning us completely.
    We now have to register and wait for ammo purchases.
    (or drive to Nevada- no, if you have Cali ID, they don’t offer to ship it to dealer in Cali- that’s a myth. Pay cash, and use a passport as your ID- has your place of BIRTH, not RESIDENCE- get pulled over by a Cali cop on the way back, and he WILL try to search your car for ammo)
    Guess what?
    If the left takes a hold of YOUR state- you will be facing the same bullshit.
    I now only shoot on private land, in order to prevent being asked for paperwork for my ammo by some asshat cop, and land for long range shooting is rare.
    We the people of California have been utterly failed by the NRA, so, now we live like criminals.

    1. avatar tiger says:

      Whoa…….. Blame your Neighbors. Not the NRA.

  23. avatar Sgt Hulka says:

    Know who I blame? The morons in California.

    They all voted for this cluster-f…


    1. avatar Behind the lines in the PRK says:

      Are you a product of public school by chance?

    2. avatar Behind the lines in the PRK says:

      It seems I read somewhere that California has more gun owners than any other state.
      Since we are generalizing. They all voted against this cluster-f…
      Anyone have the stats on what percentage of NRA members reside in California?

      1. avatar Matt(TX) says:

        Cali is the same as New Mex. and Illinois, New York, etc. One or two very large urban/city areas control the state. The non-urban areas of the state are red.

      2. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

        In a lot of these blue states, there are more conservatives than Democrat voters. Enough of the conservatives just don’t bother voting that the leftists’ who do bother voting win.

        1. avatar anarchyst says:

          There’s more to it. DemocRATS are expert at voter fraud. Add to that, the issuance of drivers licenses to illegal aliens along with DemocRAT-instituted “motor-voter” laws make it easy to “stuff the ballot box” with willing DemocRAT voters, insuring the (fraudulent) election of liberal (communist) politicians.
          Voter ID is poison to DemocRATS…That is why they are so against it…

        2. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

          I don’t disagree with that, but fraud can only get you so far.

  24. avatar Jim says:

    Well since Trump is actively destroying the GOP, you can guess which way it will go.

  25. avatar stateisevil says:

    Very simple to see, California. Just a function of urbanization. In 50 years, Arizona will look like California

  26. CA or AZ, marriage-from-Hell or splitting-the-sheets, whichever way it goes won’t be easy or final. True-believers in collectivism/globalism and/or Islam are convinced we hold-outs and nonbelievers don’t know what’s good for us. Their respective missions-in-life are to save us from ourselves, one way or another. Even walls of separation won’t stop their infringements, or colonists and Fifth-Columnists. Short of an unthinkable Armageddon, we will never be able to afford ungirding our loins. Think “long-haul.”

  27. avatar SkyMan77 says:

    Praying for Az… But I’m afraid Ralph is on target…

    Shithole dystopian slavery seems to be our trajectory… At least for a season… It’s just a matter of time… We’ve been given a reprieve with Trump, how much of a reprieve is my question…

  28. avatar CZJay says:

    California exports their minions to states like Washington, Oregon, Nevada, Texas and Colorado. Look at what happened to Portland, Denver, Austin and Seattle. Once the Cali born have reached maturity they spread the disease to the rest of the west and the new hosts can’t stop it.

    California is so bad now that there is a recent movement to split California into two states using Constitution means. The new state is being called “New California.” The sad part is it doesn’t split Los Angeles in half. If it ever happens maybe that will help cure the problem if they set it up properly.

  29. avatar Matt in AZ says:

    I often tell people, if it’s an idea or law that started in California, it’s probably a bad one.

  30. avatar passthesalt says:

    lol this comment section. Blaming everything but themselves for bragging about ghost guns, and electing an clown for a president. Turns out when you, and your public official of choice behaves like an ass it creates this phenomenon called “back lash”. Where your overt jackassery makes it easy for people to rally against you and for secondary and tertiary issues like gun control to ride the coat tails.

    A good example of this phenomenon will be the responses to this post where my use of triggering will make it easy for the most visceral, and self righteous among us to coordinate and dog pile on a response blaming this all on george soros and jerry brown getting together to indoctrinate america’s youth with fidget spinners.

    1. avatar Gralnok says:

      OMG you’re right! It’s the fidget spinners! They are the real enemy of freedom! 🤣

      In reality, your post probably generated intense outrage by the time I actually post my post. If so, my hat’s off to you. 😂

    2. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Speaking of a dog pile …

  31. avatar Gralnok says:

    I thought there were compostable plastics that solved the plastic straw issue. Does this mean green Eco friendly tech doesn’t work or that they just haven’t marketed it properly?

  32. avatar ironicatbest says:

    As long as California stays in California I don’t care what they do. They carry a lot of votes though, that’s a concern. Used to be fads came from California, and were emulated by other states, that seems to be tapering off, thank God. I gay parade in the town I live close to would be quit amusing, most everyone here can operate a D7

  33. avatar tiger says:

    Answer? Clearly we are going to California long term as a nation. A law about plastic straws????? Is state oversight of toilet paper sheet use far behind?

  34. avatar Aussie pub brawler says:

    which way is American going?
    down the gurgler…… total “balkanisation” within a decade @ most….
    historically, that’s what’s occurred to any country that has embraced the insanity of multi-culturalism, race-mixing and miscegnation….

  35. avatar Dev d says:

    I think folks under estimate the amount of true patriots that live and fight for our rights here in ca. We do have more gun owners than any other state and California was actually a very red state for a long time. If every conservative actually voted in past elections we wouldn’t have the unopposible dem super majority in the state senate that exists now. California has used its progressive “fall in or be destroyed” majority to recently pass a law that automatically enrolls anyone who applies for a drivers lisence to vote. You don’t need proof of citizenship or anything similar to get a drivers license btw. It took Los Angeles alone to flip the popular vote in favor of Hillary during the 2016 election. Ca has been working to “get out the vote” to the urban hoods and “hard working dreamers” for a while now and mail in ballots just automatically show up if you check a box once on a voter registration. Promises of free stuff will continue to bring the weak and simple minded across this state to the feet of the Democrats for as long as people continue to breath. Hell, Chicago hasn’t realized dem control does not a nice city make, and I don’t see it happening any time soon.

  36. avatar ATFAgentBob says:

    Kentuckians start emailing, calling, mailing, and harassing your state senators now and get them to support a real common sense initiative to protect our children in schools.

  37. avatar fteter says:

    I hope and pray for Arizona, but I’m preparing for California.

  38. avatar Dave says:

    At what point as a group do we sanction and advocate defiance?

    Or do we just sit back and watch G-D given rights voted away and acquiese to the majority?

    In kalifornia the nra and cal gun can’t surrender rights fast enough. Start talking defiance and you are ostracized and cut off from the discussion. The framers were not pussies but it seems many americans these days are.

    MY (our) rights are not up for a vote. Period.

    We have been watching a slow motion coup. Right in front of our eyes We are witnessing treason and sedition at all levels of government up to the top. It is past time to stand up as Americans and say not only NO but F*** NO. I will not tolerate American becoming a totalitarian country in my grandchildrens lifetime.

    Backoff with the compliance and step up the defiance or our kids are skrewed (if they aren’t completely f’d already and if we can claw back)

    1. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

      I’d suggest looking to the Civil Rights movement of the 1960’s for the proper bounds of action. They, for the most part, ignored bad laws and defended themselves when attacked. They didn’t use violence as a means to advance change.

  39. avatar Wally1 says:

    Much like California, there are two sides of Washington state. the left side (Seattle) and the Washington state east of the Cascade mountain range. Eastern WA is actually where common sense comes to live. Law enforcement on the east side know that I-594 is unconstitutional and no one enforces it. The legislators and Seattle area politicians are totally unhinged. Make all the laws you want, it will not matter if no one enforces them.

  40. avatar Dave says:

    When you edit out my comment I realize your advice on NRA board members are the comments Supporting status quo and TTAG is on the side of compromise and compromisers.

    With friends like this we will go kalifornia

    Not guns……”journalism”

    Shall not be infringed………remember?

  41. avatar John galt says:

    What would be the beginning of treating 2A as a civil rights issue?

    In kalifornia it could / may / should look like this…..

    1. Carry. Non prohibited persons should carry. For the safety of themselves, their community and to advance 2A. If busted, insist they prosecute and defend the suit to the end. Bring every civil means to bear on every agent and agency violating 2A. Make it expensive for them too. Crush them under the number of lawsuits like they would crush us individually.

    2. BUY AMMO. More than 501 rounds. Make them cite you. Contest the citation. Make it expensive

    3. Stop doing your firearm transfers through FFLs. DO NOT COMPLY. You have a fifth amendment right to freely transfer your property

    4. DO NOT COMPLY WITH ANY “ASSAULT WEAPON” registration, confiscation, feature tampering.

    FIGHT EVERYTHING. Comply with NOTHING. But……….you have to have the guts, the time, be willing spend the money

    Remember “our lives our fortunes and our sacred honor”?

    the constition is the supreme law of the land and unconstitutional laws are VOID

    Must stand fast against these commies.

    Don’t let the coup succeed.

    1. avatar anarchyst says:

      Here’s another suggestion:
      Buy as many AR-15 type 80% lower receivers as you can, which are freely available by mail order with NO background checks or FFL transfers. The rest of the parts are also freely available.
      Assemble as many of them as possible, disregarding state law on “ghost guns”.

    2. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

      There are less risky ways of fighting a statute than violating it, getting caught, and challenging the law. For example, you could just challenge the law.

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