Colorado Woman Arrested for Checking in Gun At NY Airport [VIDEO]

Haley Leach (courtesy News 10 ABC)

David Codrea writes [via ammoland.com]: Yet another citizen is facing criminal charges for not realizing that gun laws vary from state to state.  Hayley Leach, a Colorado woman, was arrested when she attempted to check her gun in at Albany Airport for her return flight home. Leach has since been free released on bail but must return to New York in February. In addition to facing criminal charges, she’ll need to endure . . .

the expenses of retaining a lawyer, traveling back from Colorado, and paying fines and court costs.

That she lawfully owned her gun in Colorado and that she tried to obey the federal law by declaring her firearm with TSA does not matter to those intent on making her pay. It’s reminiscent of earlier similar cases, including that of Donna Marie Gracey, the Florida woman with a concealed carry permit who was arrested last month for having it in New Jersey, or the ordeals of Shaneen Allen and others. None of them had criminal intent.

It points to the need for national reciprocity and recognition of licenses between states, as driver and marriage licenses are honored. Better yet would be so-called “Constitutional carry” as many states now enjoy, with more considering such legislation. But don’t hold your breath for that to go nationwide any time soon.

If you own a gun you owe it to yourself to know what the laws are so that you don’t inadvertently find yourself and those who depend on you in a world of hurt.

And chances are if you’re oblivious to those laws, you haven’t been sufficiently motivated to assist in defending the right to keep and bear arms against such infringements. That means chances are you’re reaping the benefits of pro-gun efforts in the legislatures and courts while letting other gun owners carry the load.

If there’s a silver lining, it’s that on occasion the victims of such edicts turn into effective voices of reason, with an ability to expand appeal beyond the “old white man” stereotype.

Ms. Allen has grown and risen to the challenge of leadership. Perhaps Ms. Gracey and/or Ms. Leach will, through their stories, help offset some of the Opposite Day “progressive feminist” rhetoric telling women their safest course is to be defenseless against abusive and predatory assailants.


About David Codrea:

David Codrea is the winner of multiple journalist awards for investigating / defending the RKBA and a long-time gun owner rights advocate who defiantly challenges the folly of citizen disarmament.

In addition to being a field editor/columnist at GUNS Magazine and associate editor for Oath Keepers, he blogs at “The War on Guns: Notes from the Resistance,” and posts on Twitter: @dcodrea and Facebook

comments

  1. avatar JasonM says:

    Thank god the New York government is sparing no expense of tax dollars in its tireless effort to protect us from dangerous people like this lady. Could you imagine the horror that would happen if she had taken her firearm back to Colorado?

    1. avatar anonymoose says:

      I learned recently that if you manage to get a NYC pistol permit and the guns that go with it (it’s a law that you have to buy a pistol if you get a permit), you can’t take your guns out of NYC without NYPD approval.

      1. avatar PavePusher says:

        Citations, please?

      2. avatar Terry Crane says:

        That is a fact,I had a NYC pistol permit for 41 years.It was a horror to renew it.Now in Florida it is a pleasure to experience the freedom from NY taxes and extreme laws.

    2. avatar rockthistown says:

      Hey, the TSA folks gotta have a way to enhance their personal firearm collections. What better way to do so than confiscating from out-of-staters?

    3. avatar Chad says:

      Honest question, in a case like this what happens if she just doesn’t return to NY state? Can they have her arrested and drug back to court in NY? Other than forfeiting bail $$$ of course what would happen?

      1. avatar Sid says:

        The court would issue a warrant for her arrest. The next time she was officially identified by law enforcement, she would be arrested pending extradition.

        Practically, it is up to the state of NY to pursue it. Should she be stopped for a traffic ticket or attempt to renew her license, the police would be made aware of the warrant. Then, NY could ask for her to be extradited.

        1. avatar Chad says:

          But does another state by law have to honor that extradition request? Like in this case where the crime in NY doesn’t exist in CO…

        2. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

          In short, yes.

  2. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

    Nice to see such a balanced report from the local affiliate in Albany. Maybe the NYC press can learn from them.

  3. avatar anonymoose says:

    This points to the need for eliminating ALL New York and New York City gun control laws. No more licensing schemes.

    1. avatar RonO in Texas says:

      What gets me is how they ignore the existing fed laws that provide for transporting a firearm between states… I mean completely act as if it doesnt exist. And no one. NO F&$%ING ONE calls them on it. Its sad that a fed that can come down on me with the EPA on my little stream running through me yard 1/2 the year, cant be bothered to face stomp these folks in NY and NJ when someone is transporting a lawfully owned firearm.

      1. avatar tdiinva says:

        Like it or not you need a handgun permit just to posess a pistol in NY/NYC. FOPA requires that the gun must be legal at the start and end point. Ms. Leach dodn’t meet that requirement. Surprisingly an out of stater can get a permit if they are regular visitors for business or have ties to the State.

        1. avatar Justin_GA says:

          I’m sorry but you are wrong…. First you DON’T have to be in compliance of the State’s firearm laws if you are transporting/traveling the firearm through the State to get to you destination State. (You basically drive through the state and only stop for gas or food) The second thing you have wrong is that you absolutely can not get a NY pistol/firearm permit if you don’t live in or own property in the state.

  4. avatar Aaron M. Walker says:

    Well! Where are the Pro2@ protectors of our civil rights! Step up to the home plate and help this young lady out! (*THE RIGHT OF PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!!!!*)

    1. avatar neiowa says:

      #metoo ?

  5. avatar uncommon_sense says:

    Here is the up side: we just found our perfect person to take this all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court and win. Note that her case will take several years to bubble-up all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court and that should be ample time for Trump to appoint (and the U.S. Senate to approve) another conservative justice. (We need one more conservative justice on the U.S. Supreme Court to ensure that the Court takes her case and she wins.)

    1. avatar Binder says:

      We dont need “consevative” judges, we need pragmatists, like Richard Posner. But he just pissed off too many people.

      “To confine the right to be armed to the home is to divorce the Second Amendment from the right of self-defense described in Heller and McDonald. It is not a property right — a right to kill a houseguest who, in a fit of aesthetic fury, tries to slash your copy of Norman Rockwell’s painting, Santa with Elves.”

      “Twenty-first century Illinois has no hostile Indians. But a Chicagoan is a good deal more likely to be attacked on a sidewalk in a rough neighborhood than in his apartment on the 35th floor of the Park Tower” “The Supreme Court made clear in Heller that it wasn’t going to make the right to bear arms depend on casualty counts.”

      1. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

        Hells yeah he has. Great legal mind, though.

  6. avatar MICHAEL A says:

    The sheriff’s have the power/discretion to simply ignore this and allow the holders to pass freely. That they do not exercise that discretion is telling.

    1. avatar California Richard says:

      The Sheriff in that county in New York where she was arrested has already spoken out about the arrest and he used it to highlight the need for national reciprocity. It sounds like the local police made the arrest and the DA rebooked the case. The Sheriff was out of the loop on this one….

      “We’re taking so many law abiding citizens and basically making them criminals,” Albany County Sheriff Craig Apple said.

      Apple said something needs to change.

      “These are people that are professionals,” he said. “They are doctors, pilots, lawyers, cops, firemen, whatever the case may be, and then when they go to fly out they get arrested.”

  7. avatar Hank says:

    Don’t travel to NY, MA, NJ, or CA. Presume those states a ready to arrest you at the border simply for being from another state that isn’t a totalitarian Shit Hole like theirs is.

    1. avatar BLoving says:

      It’s silly of course but…
      I just had a vision of the State Department issuing a travel warning to citizens seeking to travel in the Slave states.
      🤠

      1. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

        It would be nice if they’d print the states your permit is valid in right on the permit. That might avoid some of the confusion. Of course, there’d still be the confusion over what in the hell they think they meant by ‘SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED’.

      2. avatar Casey says:

        Well, the NAACP issued a travel warning for the entire state of Missouri because we’re all redneck gun toting white supremacists, and then Fodor’s picked it up and made us #7 on the do-not-visit list, ahead of Cuba, China, and Honduras.

        As for travel warnings to the less friendly places, I suspect many of us would even strongly agree with the NAACP’s reasoning, if not their specific facts: “You can’t let people come into your state and become victims, so the least we could do was tell people before they got here,”

        1. avatar SparkyInWI says:

          Interesting. Then I wish those the doing this advising on travel the best of luck and safety as they go Cuba, China, Honduras, etc. This prisons in those places will not be nice, they will not enjoy them. So they better make sure to keep their mouths tight and closed and follow the narrow and straight. There is no right to protest, free speech, etc. in any of the fore mentioned countries.

          As for Missouri I find it a nice and friendly state with a lot of good people. I tend to stay away from the large cities but that is the case with any state. I shy away from going to Milwaukee in my own home state.

    2. avatar Mark N. says:

      She would not have had this problem in California. There is no law requiring a state-issued permit to possess a firearm (except “assault weapons). FOPA should cover these people, but it doesn’t. The effect of the NY law is to make it illegal for anyone not a NY (or NJ, which is the same) resident to possess a handgun in that state. Since this is a state criminal case, I doubt the law has been challenged in federal court (not that would do anyone any good in the 2d Circuit) on constitutional grounds, and it would take years and a huge sum of money to try to get it before the US Supreme Court.

    3. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

      Probably should add MD to that list.

    4. avatar Conservatarian says:

      Not traveling to certain states may be a good idea. I can still see flights getting diverted to those places due to bad weather or something… What if you get diverted and land NY, MA, CA, NJ….etc..? It makes the idea of flying with your defense tool seem to be a risky thing regardless or where you are going.

      1. avatar Casey says:

        I was once rerouted (mechanical problem) to NJ with a pistol and JHP in my checked bag. They comped us dinner and a hotel, but we’d have to get our bags and come back through security the following day.

        I must have looked like a tweaker, how much I was sweating, since I knew the airline knew I had a gun, and the baggage handlers would see the firearm tag, and I’d either have to pick up my bag in person from the desk or from the carousel, which of course has cops standing around all over the place (being NJ).

        I camped at that baggage chute for an hour before the bags started coming. My bags came out, and I have never tried to walk so nonchalantly to the exit in my life. I rented a car, and then drove at exactly the speed limit straight for the PA border.

        And that’s why I’m a huge supporter of National Reciprocity. Because sometimes, even when you do everything right, and through no fault or control of your own, you can find yourself one employee-who-cares-too-much away from jail time in an very unfriendly state.

        1. avatar Mike says:

          This would be my concern about flying with any gun.

      2. avatar Justin_GA says:

        I fly from GA to northeast PA all the time with firearms and it is a real concern that the plane could be diverted to NY or NJ. This HAS happened to me before….luckly I wasn’t transporting a firearm at the time. I posed the question to a lawyer about what to do if this exact thing happened. She said if the plane landed and my checked luggage was moved to another plane by the airline I was good. If the plane diversion required me to take possession of checked firearm I basically had three options. One would be to rent a car and keep on traveling to my destination without pause. The second was to find a FedEx or UPS shop in the airport and mail the “sporting goods” or “precision machined parts” to myself from myself. Or the third option is to leave the firearm and not try to get it from TSA secure area if I can’t do one or two. After I get to a SAFE State call the ATF and explain the situation and request that they destroy the firearm or somehow legally send it back to you.

  8. avatar TexTed says:

    Harley’s 115th Anniversary is taking place this August in Milwaukee, and they’ve established some rides to get you there. For me, it would mean having to ride through Illinois. F that. I selected a different route, up through Oklahoma, Missouri, Iowa and over through Wisconsin. My permit is honored in all five states I’ll be driving through. Yes, I refuse to even drive through their state, lest those crotchsniffing gun grabbers have any remote excuse for doing to me, what they did to Shaneen Allen and Hayley Leach.

    National reciprocity CANNOT get here soon enough. It’s utterly outrageous that a State can make a Felon out of someone for exercising their CONSTITUTIONAL, ENUMERATED, and INCORPORATED rights!

    1. avatar Binder says:

      You can carry it in the car in Illinois and even loaded and on your person (as long as you have an out of state permit)

      430 ILCS 66/40

      And if makes you feel better TX has sufficiently oppressive CCW laws were you can get a out of state permit in Illinois.

      1. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

        “And if makes you feel better TX has sufficiently oppressive CCW laws were you can get a out of state permit in Illinois.” ?

        1. avatar Binder says:

          In order to get a non resident Illinois CCW your home state has to have a similar CCW law. Texas is one of 4 states that manages to qualify. Much of the Illinois CCW law is based on the Texas law at the time it was passed.
          I think TX is one of the reasons our CCW cost is so high. Originaly it was going to be much cheaper, untill some anti saw how much Texas charged at the time and adjusted for inflation. If you can qualify for a FOID (excluding training) you can qualify for a CCW, but a FOID is $10 for 10 years, a CCW is $150 for 5. Same background checks, same card (different colors).

        2. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

          Does Texas still qualify? Our laws are much better now. Still not great. 4 hour class, it isn’t really training. $40 for 5 years. (The 5 year thing is really because of federal NICS exemption requirements).

    2. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

      Definitely take the IA/WI route, especially if you’re on two wheels. Mississippi bluff country – lots of curvy roads and purty scenery. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/PikesPeakStatePark.jpg

      1. avatar SparkyInWI says:

        +1 on this. Along the river there in WI is some very beautiful riding and scenery.

  9. avatar The_Resistantis says:

    The democrats’ war on women.

  10. avatar rc says:

    Simple rule…never, under any circumstances, visit socialist, totalitarian sh*tholes, like Cuba, North Korea, Venezuela, NY, CA, MA, NJ, etc. If you have relatives who live there, insist they come and see you. There is simply no reason to put your life, liberty and happiness in the hands of a bunch of Stalinist wankers who would love nothing more that to throw you in jail and watch you rot there for what amounts to basically a non-offense, while engaging in whole-sale releases of gang-bangers and other actual murderers.

    1. avatar MICHAEL A says:

      You forgot CT and MD, the newest slave states.

      1. avatar Anon in Ct says:

        CT generally obeys FOPA. And unlike our neighbors, we do issue pistol permits to non-residents.

        Don’t get me wrong – I hate all the new gun laws passed in 2013, but we’re not quite NY or NJ either. At least not yet. Gulp.

      2. avatar Vorkon says:

        Yeah, CT’s gun laws suck, but as recently as this Christmas I was able to transport a gun between Arizona, there, and back, with no problems, and did the same between CA and CT, back when I used to be stationed there.

        As I understand it, in Connecticut as long as you are only transporting the weapon from one location to another, and it remains locked up and unloaded at all times, you are just fine, exactly as intended by FOPA.

        If I’ve been mistaken about this and just been lucky these last few years, please let me know! This article actually has me a bit worried.

  11. avatar FedUpinNY says:

    Like drivers licenses? Like marriage licenses? Like dozens of other licenses except NONE of those are guaranteed by our creator AND the Constitution.
    There should be a 12 Step Program for New Yorkers (yep, I am one) to help us cope with the epic amount of bull crap we have to put up with at the hands of our government.

    Of course leaving is the best answer. Working on that.

  12. avatar 300BlackoutFan says:

    I guess I’m missing why a person can’t counter-sue for violation of the Federal Government’s Firearms Owners Protection Act (FOPA) which guarantees safe passage to firearms owners across state lines.

    I don’t see it as a ‘states powers’ issue – airline travel is generally, as in this case, a multi-state endeavor. Therefore, the laws of a single state are irrelevant. Furthermore, the 10th Amendment can’t apply because the 2nd Amendment came before it.

    I know, logic and all that. The REAL problem is that FOPA doesn’t have teeth, and has the Hughes Amendment (illegally) attached to it… So, we have half an ignored law (FOPA) with a rider that has the full force of all States and the Federal Government.

    1. avatar FedUpinNY says:

      FOPA should protect her at the airport if she were encountered to or from a destination she was permitted to possess the handgun. Unfortunately NewYorkistan doesn’t recognize any other states permits, so she is SOL on the NY end of the trip.
      I travel a lot, always with a firearm, but always licensed or legal at the points of origin and destination.
      It would be nice if airlines posted some kind of reminder to law abiding folks about that rule.
      I’ve made hundreds of flights with a handgun and have never had anyone ask if I was GTG on the other end.
      Of course, National Reciprocity is the answer to this nonsense…good luck getting this Senate to pass it.

      1. avatar Anon in Ct says:

        I know other CT folks who claim to have had no problems flying in and out of Westchester Airport with unloaded, cased firearms. I suppose the theory is that if you start your journey at home in CT where possession is legal, and drive to Westchester to fly to somewhere else where the gun is legal, then you’re covered by FOPA. Ditto for the return trip. Nobody recommends trying this with any of the airports in NYC.

        Still, I don’t want to be the guinea pig and will take the extra time to drive to Bradley Airport in Hartford.

        1. avatar Vorkon says:

          I’ve done it out of Bradley, and had no problems whatsoever.

          Of course, I’m also an active duty Marine, so they may have just decided not to dig any deeper when they saw the military ID.

        2. avatar Vorkon says:

          Oh, haha, I misread your comment and thought you said you didn’t want to be a guinea pig and try flying out of BRADLEY.

          Yeah, I’ve got no idea about Westchester, and wouldn’t want to try myself, either.

      2. avatar tdiinva says:

        There seems to be a general misunderstanding about FOPA. FOPA is about the right to travel between two States where you can legally posess a gun. It does not protect you when your destination is a State where you may not posess a firearm. Some States, like Illinois, allow you to stay overnight. New Jersey and New York do not allow you to stop at all. There have been enough cases that have received national publicity so I have limited sympathy for those who get caught.

        Pro tip: When you travel with a gun do not rely on wishful thinking or what ought to be. Know the law in each State you visit or pass through. Even permitless carry States have rules.

    2. avatar Mark N. says:

      That depends on where her trip started. If she was visiting in NY, then FOPA is no protection; it only protects you while in transit between places where you have a right to posses that firearm. She had no right to possess a handgun in NYS. She might have a case if her trip started across the border in New Hampshire, if the handgun was unloaded and in a locked container.

      1. avatar Binder says:

        Trust me, even as a transient, they will still charge you. If you ever end up in a New York Airport for any reason DO NOT take possession of your firearm.

    3. avatar Hank says:

      FOPA should, but NY is one of those states that simply ignore the law and will do as they please, until there’s a federal court ruling forcing them to comply. They will then likely do all they can to find any loophole to undermine and circumvent the court ruling, to continue do as they please. Only a military invasion by the federal government under the authority of 14th amendment will change things. An invasion, then all current state leaders must be tried and inprisoned for rebellion and treason against the United States. Occupation will continue for decades to reconstruct the state to force it into a new and correct behiavor towards american citizens.

      1. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

        Oh, I’m sure a series of simple federal civil rights violation investigations would do the trick.

  13. avatar Jonathan-Houston says:

    “And chances are if you’re oblivious to those laws, you haven’t been sufficiently motivated to assist in defending the right to keep and bear arms against such infringements.”

    Exactly. Not so insufficiently motivated now, eh, Ms. Leach? Throw the book at, with feeling, New York!

    Every movement needs its martyrs, after all. The cuter, more naive, and more telegenic, the better. We need poster boys and girls, too, you see.

    They recommend publicity as a remedy for social and industrial diseases, to which I’ll add government’s filthy infringements. Well, sunlight is the best disinfectant.

    Might someone get burned along the way? I don’t know, maybe? That’s the price of progress.

  14. avatar Wanderingninjarevenge says:

    Shall not be infringed doesn’t really equate to we’ll arrest you for not knowing our unconstitutional nuances. I love liberal states as much as catching crabs. Just makes me squirm in discomfort that we have allowed this to happen

    1. avatar Casey says:

      I love catching crabs! Going out on the Chesapeake at 2am and laying the pots. Pulling them up in the dawn and dropping the crabs straight into the boil. Old Bay seasoning packed like mud into their little joints. Cracking the claw and….

      Oh, never mind, I see what you mean.

  15. avatar Ken says:

    May NY politicians and political-hack law enforcement rot in hell. Forever.

  16. avatar borg says:

    The states whose citizens are being persecuted in violation of FOPA are losing revenue due to the illegal persecution. The affected states need to start banding together in class action lawsuits against New Jersey and New York with the claim that these states are persecuting their citizens in direct violation of FOPA resulting in losses revenue. If New York and New Jersey faced the likelihood of class action lawsuits for this pattern of behavior and they may be forced to stop.

  17. avatar Colorado mama says:

    How’d she get it into NY to begin with? She couldn’t have flown there with it. We live in Colorado but I am a native of Upstate NY and I fly in and out of Albany. How did she not know to check the laws? With that said, it does piss me off this is even an issue at all. Last summer we drove to NY because we were going to be there for 4 weeks and we wanted to bring our dog and have our truck. I was plenty miffed that I couldn’t carry as we drove from here to there. Like another poster said we can drive thru Illinois. But with Colorado plates on our truck we are a big fat target for LEOs because of our legalized pot. And even if we could get through IL. We couldn’t bring it legally into NY. My brother is an attorney in NY and I asked him why there aren’t more people defending our rights in this matter. There are plenty of lawyers out there prosecuting innoscent bakeries for not making cakes for gay weddings. But where are the people fighting to defend our existing Constitutional right to carry??? He said no lawyer wants to take on the expense of it and they know they won’t win. At some point some civil discord is going to be necessary. Like the Boston Tea Party, or Rosa Parks etc. We, as a group, may need to push the envelope and challenge the system or nothing is going to change.

    1. avatar FedUpinNY says:

      One of the weak links in FOPA is that no one at the airlines checks legality at both ends of the journey. She probably had no trouble at all checking the firearm in her checked bag going to NY, it was only on leaving that she would encounter anyone looking to jam her up.

    2. avatar Rex says:

      Simply put. I am a close personal friend of Haley. I warned her of the strict “pistol permit” laws in NY. However, she was driving her brothers car across our great states in order to return it to her family, unaccompanied. She is a non felonious member of our amazing country. She possesses a concealed carry permit from the state of Colorado and was not, in any way, participating in illegal activity. She simply was exercising her right as a citizen to protect herself. After returning the Subaru wagon and spending time with her parents, she chose to board a flight to return to Colorado.
      Haley attempted to follow the letter of the law and declare her weapon.
      This is ridiculous. She is a citizen of the country we love. We are not extremists. Simply put, I know she is a law abiding person who believes in doing the right thing. 303 910 1816

  18. avatar Hannibal says:

    And this isn’t even a ‘carry’ question, it’s worse than that- the mere possession of a pistol, even in your home, is a crime in NY unless you have gone through the months of paperwork necessary to get permission. NY is even worse than NJ in that regard. In fact I think it is the only state that has such a ridiculous provision (therefore not counting DC).

    Imagine the screaming that would result if a measure were introduced to put checks on voting in the same way?

    1. avatar FedUpinNY says:

      In the county I live in it is 18 months right now for a permit application to be processed

  19. avatar borg says:

    If I were a competition shooter I would be afraid to enter New York for a competition match. If I were an Olympic shooter I would be afraid to enter New York to practice.

  20. avatar borg says:

    How many cops has this state arrested in violation of LEOSA? The reason I ask is because if they are willing to violate FOPA then what stops them from violating LEOSA

    1. avatar Red in CO says:

      That’s actually a really good question

    2. avatar strych9 says:

      Probably none. Cops on vacation or who are retired have a special handshake a decoder ring for shit like this.

      They get caught, fist bump the other cop, whisper “Drink your Ovaltine” and they’re on their way.

      1. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

        A crummy commercial? Son of a bitch!

      2. avatar tdiinva says:

        I know the retired Sheriff of Sheboygan County Wisconsin. He did not go through the LEOSA route. To qualify for LEOSA you must annually qualify to the FBI standard and more importantly give the Feds the serial number of the gun you wish to carry. You can carry no other pistol. You may not use a State issued CHL. More cops than you think say screw that.

    3. avatar borg says:

      It occurs to me that one reason NYPD may be unlikely to violate LEOSA by illegally arresting cops is the fear of retaliatory arrests of NYPD cops when they leave New York.

      1. avatar FedUpinNY says:

        This was 150 miles from the nearest NYPD jurisdiction. Anti 2A is a statewide LE problem here, not just with NYPD.
        To be fair, most cops think it’s bullshit too. It’s the Governor, the NYC owned Assembly and the RINO state Senate who are the problem.
        Best thing pro-2A types in NY can do is vote, that’s the only cure for what ails us.
        SCOTUS is years out from doing anything g to help NY, hopefully National Reciprocity passes the Senate.

    4. avatar Hannibal says:

      More than one. Almost invariably the NYPD arresting someone who technically qualified under LEOSA but was not up to the standards the NYPD considered sufficient for being considered a ‘cop.’

      Two cases I know of (both decided against NY)
      People of the State of New York v. Arthur Rodriguez (a constable from PA)
      People v. Booth (in the Coast Guard, would not fly after amendments to the law… but qualified at the time)

  21. avatar Q. says:

    It is her responsibility to know the local gun laws. Tough lesson to learn.

    1. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

      How exactly can you commit a felony without mens rea?

      Yes, she should know the laws, but most people have no idea the level of corruption they’ll be dealing with when visiting slave states. And should we have to check all of our God given and Constitutionally protected rights when tra veling out of state?

      1. avatar Hannibal says:

        Intent, here, is the intent to commit the crime by bringing a handgun into the state and does not require knowledge of the law. The old adege that “ignorance of the law is no excuse’ applies. Anyone could get out of almost anything by claiming such ignorance and it does not fly.

        So mens rea means she could get out if someone else put the gun in her luggage, it doesn’t mean she can say she didn’t know the law and be not guilty.

        1. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

          That only works if it’s assumed that the victim (criminal) knew or should have known that the Bill of Rights isn’t worth a scrap of used toilet paper in NY, i.e. this is straight up tyranny, no matter how you cut it.

  22. avatar former water walker says:

    F##k NY…I’d contribute to a gofundme thing.

  23. avatar AFGus says:

    This is total BS and as an unconstitutional act as can be made by a State. The Feds need to come down on these States that violate the 2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution and infringe on law abiding citizens rights to bear arms. Just like States that violate Federal Immigration laws by proclaiming that they are sanctuary States or Cities, they are crapping on peoples Constitutional Rights. They do not legally possess the right to do this and something needs to be done about it.

  24. avatar borg says:

    Considering that women are considered minorities it could be argued that the practice of routinely violating FOPA is done by both New York and New Jersey disproportionately affects minorities and therefore New York and New Jersey are guilty of systematically discriminating against protected classes in direct violation of numerous federal laws.

  25. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

    “None of them had criminal intent.” I’m sure she did intend to possess the firearm. I’m also pretty sure she didn’t intend to violate the law. That’s still criminal intent.

    “It points to the need for national reciprocity and recognition of licenses between states, as driver and marriage licenses are honored.” I don’t think that Texas will recognize a Louisiana marriage license. It will recognize a Louisiana marriage, though. Also, no national reciprocity legislation actually mandates reciprocity. They just “grant” a right to carry if you have an LTC.

    Sorry, I can’t stop the lawyerin’.

  26. avatar borg says:

    The prosecutor may claim that FOPA does not apply. A good lawyer could claim that FOPA does apply since Colorado was her ultimate destination

    1. avatar Hannibal says:

      It does not apply unless you take a direct travel path from one place you can legally possess the firearm to another where you can legally possess the firearm.

      Since she was travelling from NY, where said possession is illegal, rather than through, FOPA does not apply.

  27. avatar strych9 says:

    Three quick things:

    First, wasn’t there a guy a few years ago who had this happen in NYC when he didn’t even want to be there? His flight was diverted due to a storm or something?

    Second, in the short term this woman is fucked with a capital F. In the longer term perhaps she’ll win on appeal but that’s pretty far off at this point and without outside assistance she’ll be bankrupt long before she gets out of jail/prison/NY…. but I repeat myself.

    Third, this is why FedEx is awesome. If you find yourself in a non-free state, STFU, rent a car, drive to a free state and find a FedEx store. Then ship the gun back to a local FFL. Sure, might run you a few hundred bucks but what do you think is cheaper, doing that or what this lady is about to go through?

    1. avatar FedUpinNY says:

      Delayed flight (weather), airline put everyone up in a hotel for the night. They pinched the guy checking back in for his flight the next morning for CPW.
      Argued everything he needed was in his bag, unfortunately, so was his checked firearm.
      The stupid was strong on that one but this crap happens here. Time for politicians to go to jail for infringement of our rights.

    2. avatar Hannibal says:

      You can ship the gun by FedEx to yourself at your other address if you want and save the expense… if you don’t declare it as a firearm to FedEx (which is only necessary under their company policy, and not federal law)

  28. avatar borg says:

    In this case being forced to check the firearm may constitute entrapment since she was forced to violate her 5th amendment rights while by virtue of checking the firearm in the New York airport.

    1. avatar Hannibal says:

      Nice idea but it probably won’t fly, especially in NY. She was not forced to check the gun and could have driven instead. The courts have regularly established that choosing to undergo screening\searching in order to fly is not coercive because you are choosing to take the flight.

  29. avatar Cody says:

    So what if she…just doesn’t go back?

    1. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

      She gets extradited. Unless the state she is in has a federal judge willing to issue an injunction because the law violates the 2A and issues a nation wide injunction prohibiting the enforcement of the law. She better head to Texas. See https://www.lawfareblog.com/case-against-national-injunctions-no-matter-who-president; discussing injunctions against the Obama administration from Texas federal courts.

      1. avatar Cody says:

        I appreciate the link. That’s something I knew nothing about. I wouldn’t think either state would go through the trouble of extradition, but I can definitely see NY wanting to extract it’s pound of flesh in this case.

        1. avatar rick3 says:

          Yeah, I was thinking the same thing…just tell NY to go pound sand.

          But if the courts are such that she would be arrested in Colorado for the unlawful law of NY…well, that just sucks.

  30. avatar sound awake says:

    who would go to new york

    conservatives arent welcome there

    says who

    the governor

    his exact words:

    “conservative Republicans … have no place in the state of New York, because that’s not who New Yorkers are.”

  31. avatar Ted says:

    First, FOPA wouldn’t apply unless New York was a thru-state on her journey back to Colorado rather than the state of origin.

    Second, thanks to Heller and MacDonald, at minimum the ability to possess a handgun in one’s own residence is a fundamental right of every citizen. New York State refusing to even allow a non-resident a legal means to possess a handgun within a temporary residence is a constitutional violation. A temporary residence is still a residence.

    Third, what’s really sad is I’m reminded of the time I was planning a possible journey and discovered that there was a legal means for me to travel with my firearms through Canada, but not New York.

    1. avatar Hannibal says:

      I’m starting to think there is no state that fundemenally violates Heller etc. more than the state of NY (and NYC). DC might be the only contender.

      The ONLY thing about New York State that advantages it above most of the other gunphobic states (NJ, MD, HI, etc) is that a resident outside of NYC can legally carry concealed… if they go through the same ridiculous process necessary to even purchase and possess a handgun. You have to affirmatively prove your ability to own a gun, including by having multiple references in your county- often for some arbitrary amount of time (eg four years). If, therefore, you move to NY you are functionally unable to (legally!) own a handgun… unless they have changed things recently.

  32. avatar Kyle in Upstate NY says:

    Of course if you are an illegal alien, they will ignore the law and go out of their way to help you, basically roll out the red carpet for you. But if you are a law-abiding American citizen who gets ensnared by some gun control law, they will come down on you like a sack of bricks dropped from orbit. While I hate to sound super partisan, to a degree, the current Democratic party actively goes out of its way to harm American citizens while helping illegal aliens.

  33. avatar Oh noes says:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeT67BvYzo4

    Obama on getting Latinos to vote Democrat; punishing Conservatives.
    This “punish your enemies” concept applies to all Democrat politics

  34. avatar stateisevil says:

    She’ll be fine. TTAG writer John Bosch assured us national reciprocity would pass late last year. After all,we are in the golden age of Trump. And Congress is held by Republicans.

  35. avatar John E> says:

    I live in PA, and took a job where my territory extends to NJ, MD and DC. Every time I drive there, out comes my go bag, make sure there is no spare bags or rounds in the car, no carry piece. Just sucks.

  36. avatar KyKPH says:

    There are two rules for New York
    1. Don’t go to New York, State or city!
    2. If you live in New York ( or Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maryland, California or any other “slave” state)….MOVE!

  37. avatar Tim says:

    Judging from the authors words and the post in the comments section, most are ignorant of the simple fact that the 2nd Amendment does not apply to the States. If you recall your Constitutional history, the 2nd Amendment was part of the Bill of Rights and the Bill of Rights was added as “insurance” to remind our newly formed Federal Government of their boundaries. Each State (which are Sovereign) has their own Constitution. Many States have language similar to the 2A in their Constitutions, and any thing other than Constitutional Carry probably violates the States Constitution. But here’s the point, FedGov was never delegated (by their Creator, the States) any authority over the country at large to make any laws, regulations or rules regarding firearms…that would include “national reciprocity.” Here’s a very good article from a Constitutional knowledgeable Attorney on the subject: https://publiushuldah.wordpress.com/2017/07/19/from-duty-to-be-armed-to-permission-to-carry/

    1. avatar tdiinva says:

      If you lived in pre Civil War America you would be correct. However, with the passage of the 14th Amendment the Bill of Rights was incorporated at State and Local levels.

      1. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

        And in the case of the 2A, the recent case of McDonald v. Chicago stated as much. Gotta love this guy incorrectly calling everyone out as ignorant.

  38. avatar Tom says:

    She’s a cutie. Her mugshot smile makes it seem like she is taking this crap well. I certainly hope this is dismissed with as little trouble for her, as possible.

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