Chaos, Confusion in New York as Over a Million Gun Owners Begin to ‘Re-certify’ Their Permits

New York doesn't know how to administer or enforce the SAFE Act

courtesy Shawn Dowd and USA Today

It’s almost as if Andrew Cuomo and his anti-gun cronies didn’t think through any of the logistics of enforcing the SAFE Act when they slammed it into law in the middle of the night five years ago . . . County clerks want meeting with Cuomo over handgun laws

County clerks across the state are seeking an emergency meeting with Gov. Andrew Cuomo and other leaders about a Jan. 31 deadline for re-certifying handgun licenses under the 2013 SAFE Act gun control law.

County clerks, who keep track of handgun licenses in their individual counties, say they are being besieged with questions about details of the new requirement. And they have their own questions about enforcement of the law.

“We are unable to answer the numerous questions from our mutual constituents and other interested parties,” reads a Dec. 7 letter signed by Association President Annette Hill, of New York City.

Just over 200,000 handgun owners have “re-certified” their permits so far.

The 2013 SAFE Act which Cuomo pushed through following the massacre in which 20 children and six adults died at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown Ct., is best known for its ban on assault-style weapons.

But the law also requires recertification of handgun licenses every five years. With the law’s fifth anniversary approaching, handgun owners who were registered prior to January 2013 are due to re-certify.

But there are an estimated 1.25 million handgun owners in New York. Most of them were issued permits before the SAFE Act became law. And they only have until January 31 to get re-certified. Tick. Tock.

Part of the problem, (New York State Rifle and Pistol Association president Tom) King said, is it’s unclear how complete or up-to-date the current records are so it’s difficult to gauge the level of compliance.

What could possibly go wrong?

comments

  1. avatar PROUD chicano says:

    Nothing will change until one of these crooks gets convinced of treason. That and no more carve outs for leos.

    1. avatar GC says:

      If there were no more carve outs for LEO’s, the majority of these ridiculous laws wouldn’t exist.

      1. avatar LJPII says:

        Really? That’s weird. As a LEO, who votes conservative, believes in individual gun rights and the constitution, in the State of California…I can honestly say that I have absolutely no control over what laws and policies the Ca. govt. put into place. I wish I did…but I don’t. I think you folks are placing the blame on the wrong people.

      2. avatar LJPII says:

        BUT, with that being said, while I don’t agree with the stupid gun control laws the Ca. Gvt. saddles us with, I sure as hell aint gonna complain if I’m somehow exempt.

  2. avatar Excedrine says:

    People scrambling before the deadline, almost certainly meaning that some will inevitably miss it?

    Why, that’s not a bug, Comrade, but the main feature!

  3. avatar Desert Dave says:

    I would imagine that part of the problem is the number of unfortunate boating accidents in which ones firearms were lost to the depths. Can’t register a firearm that is at the bottom of a lake!

    1. avatar George says:

      We are only talking about registered handguns on your handgun license and if you lost your handgun in a boating accident NY law requires that you report you lost or stolen gun including ammo within 24 hours. If you didn’t and they find out you lose your handgun license and can be arrested.
      S 400.10 Report of theft or loss of a firearm, rifle or shotgun.
      1. (a) Any owner or other person lawfully in possession of: (i) a
      firearm, rifle or, shotgun who suffers the loss or theft of said weapon;
      (ii) ammunition as well as a firearm, rifle or shotgun who suffers the
      loss or theft of such ammunition as well as a firearm, rifle or shotgun;
      or (iii) ammunition and is a dealer in firearms or seller of ammunition
      who suffers the loss or theft of such ammunition shall within
      twenty-four hours of the discovery of the loss or theft report the facts
      and circumstances of the loss or theft to a police department or
      sheriff’s office.

  4. avatar Leighton Cavendish says:

    Too bad they all did not sell or lose their guns…thus not requiring registration.
    Why does federal law trump state law in most cases…but not when it comes to guns?
    The 2nd clearly states: shall not be infringed. No other right has that statement.Hmmm.
    How do state and local laws supercede THAT?
    Anybody?
    I understand when there is not a federal law pertaining to a subject…the state can then implement their own laws.But in this case, it seems pretty clear.

    1. avatar Ross says:

      Too bad they all did not sell or lose their guns…

      The problem with doing this is one can no longer use/enjoy their firearms…… NY and states like it are never going to turn, they will simply get worse and worse for gun owners.

      1. avatar Kyle says:

        In CA, most have simply given up. They can’t even figure out what the laws are. The cops barely understand them.

        The ranges, dont even try to enforce them.

        Basically, when someone gets arrested, and that is rare, they find out what the laws are, and plea bargain the case.

        its just a mess. Its easier to do your own taxes without a calculator than it is to obey our gun laws.

        1. avatar Garrison Hall says:

          Soviet style law enforcement: “Show me the person and I’ll find the law they’ve broken”. Nothing much will happen . . . until you get stopped by the cops for a broken tail-light or they serve a code-violation warrant. And then you go to jail. Progressive policies always lead to one-party-state totalitarianism.

    2. avatar MyName says:

      Well, apparently, *infringed* is a big word that a lot of judges and state legislators don’t quite comprehend.

      I can help. It means don’t f**k with.

    3. avatar epickett says:

      Right. Some states have legalized weed. But the federal law takes precedence when, say, a person admits to smoking weed on the 4473. Or the recent hassle with medical marijuana patients being ordered to turn in or destroy their legally purchased guns.

      1. avatar Big Bill says:

        And yet, the feds, instead of changing the law, decide to not enforce it.
        If I remember my civics classes (they were a long time ago), that’s illegal.

    4. avatar Jared says:

      Because of 18 USC 927

  5. avatar Ing says:

    And people wonder why we’re so resistant to the idea of registration.

    It’s bad enough that I have to ask the government for permission to exercise my right to bear arms every five years. The thought of begging some bureaucrat repeatedly for permission to keep my own damn property (let alone carry it in public) would be intolerable.

  6. avatar Don says:

    The NYSRPA is a sham. They do nothing for us in NY. All they do is fear monger. There is no politicians even attempting to fight this. Because the only way it got passed is because the republicans allowed it.

  7. avatar David N says:

    If the people of New York are ever going to throw this unfair yoke off their backs, they are going to have to either bring this unjust law up for review in the Supreme Courts, or band together and refuse to register their firearms and take the risk.

    1. avatar RandallOfLegend says:

      Not with NYC hanging on. If you check county by county, you’d see that he only needed to win NYC and one other major city. The rest of the state is was opposed.

    2. avatar Hannibal says:

      These laws are regularly challenged but the courts either refuse to hear the case or find in favor of the state.

      And what, exactly, do you think ould change if no one “re-certified” in this case? The state then has legal cover to revoke their permit to own and carry a handgun. You think that’s a loss for Cuomo somehow?

      1. avatar Big Bill says:

        “And what, exactly, do you think ould change if no one “re-certified” in this case?”
        Or if, as might be the case here, far too many wait until the last minute (week?). It then becomes a real problem for the state, because requiring something to be done, but providing no way to do it, is, IIRC, illegal in itself. If the infrastructure can’t handle a foreseeable consequence of such a law, the state has constructively provided no way for at least some people to follow the law.

    3. avatar WARFAB says:

      The SAFE act “assault weapon” registration was a complete joke. Barely anyone registered. It will be interesting to see how the pistol permits go since the state already has the information about who has pistols. I’m hoping for mass non-compliance.

      I’m actually betting on it. Whether intentional or intentional, a substantial number of people are going to miss the deadline. Guessing Cuomo will offer an “amnesty” period to do the recertification process in the spring.

      1. avatar Big Bill says:

        “Guessing Cuomo will offer an “amnesty” period to do the recertification process in the spring.”
        Since an amnesty is a pardon for having committed a crime, I don’t see how those attempting to follow the law, but being prevented from doing so by the state’s incompetence, have committed any crime.
        IMO, any amnesty would need to be applied to the state for constructively not allowing its citizens from following a law it (the state) imposed.

  8. avatar Dan says:

    How is going to prison going to overthrow the “tyranny”? It is exactly why the liberals write the laws. Then they send their armed public servants out to enforce the “law”. And if the supreme court won’t take the case like they did this year what then?

  9. avatar Quasimofo says:

    You mean to tell me that the only real outcomes of passing the SAFE Act have been confusion and non-compliance (deliberate or otherwise)? A poorly thought-out and badly written law that was rushed through the process so politicians could appear to be “doing something” and “be tough” in a way that would appeal to the voters in the NYC metro area?

    This is my shocked face…

    1. avatar RandallOfLegend says:

      They had $35 million set aside for the ammunition database. That is STILL not active after 4 years.

      1. avatar Mark N. says:

        CAlifornia’s ammo registration law goes into effect January 1. I am waiting for the system to crash and burn when the computers needed to record this mass of data either go down or simply have not been acquired/are not programmed properly, and the DOJ starts screaming that it doesn’t have the staff to process the data stream. And after spending a million dollars, not one crime will have been solved because the data is essentially useless.

      2. avatar Hannibal says:

        Like CA, NY made it illegal to sell ammo without going through an FFL w\background check etc. But because of the way the law is written and the fact that out-of-state companies are not beholden to New York State laws in that way, plenty now ignore the whole thing.

        But the politicians get to claim they ‘did something’ in the wake of Newton.

        1. avatar WARFAB says:

          The ammo background check nonsense also fell apart because the state can’t burden the federal NICS system due to a state law. They had to create their own computer system to do it and couldn’t.

  10. avatar I H8 NY says:

    Comply with THIS!

  11. avatar ironicatbest says:

    Evidently the majority of the New York people want this. .. Support your local Law Enforcement. ( btw– I’m still waiting on Officer Over.)

    1. avatar WARFAB says:

      New York State is a microcosm for the nation. A small densely populated urban center that lives a very different lifestyle and has very different values than the rural areas that geographically dominate the state gets to elect the politicians and determine the laws for everyone.

      1. avatar Big Bill says:

        Congratulations! You have just stated the rationale behind the Electoral College.

  12. avatar steelbones says:

    The second amendment is our recourse to these tyrannical oppressive laws and political overlords. The problem is we have only ourselves to blame. we have become a bunch of compliant do nothing pussies! 50,000 gun owners need to descend on the capital’s locked and loaded when these power drunk corrupt self serving so called representative’s are in their home offices and simply tell them ease up on the bull$h!t or blood will flow and mean it!! No one is willing to sacrifice life for Liberty any longer and the government monster overlords know it. Nothing will change for the better until free men stand once again and either make the politicians govern by the Constitution or end up hanging by their ankles like Mussolini and his cohorts!

  13. avatar TwoJohnsonsAreBetterThanOne says:

    The Evil-Empire State.

  14. avatar Mark Disilvestro says:

    Hey, if New York’s gun-control bureaucracy can create as much hindrance and frustration as possible, and maybe even get some of the ‘unable-to-comply’ tossed in jail, for Cuomo and his thugs, that’s just a bonus!

    Happy Motoring, Mark

  15. avatar SAMUEL LEE says:

    Plain and simple Mario Cuomo is a communist and a totalitarian dictator..
    He touted the safe to act as the reason why a Home Depot rental truck was the only means for a terrorist to run over 8 people… he knows he’s in deep political trouble with the Safe Act and he had a Freudian slip..

  16. avatar mark says:

    my condolences to fellow gun owners in new york. i lived in beautiful upstate, for a short time, years ago.

  17. avatar Larry says:

    FYI the ammo,part of the safe act was never put into,place , although most won’t ship here to homes now .

  18. avatar Jim S. says:

    The way I heard it a bunch of people are waiting until the last minute to send in recerts by registered mail…

  19. avatar DP says:

    “It’s a trap!”

  20. avatar Banzai says:

    Time to move

  21. avatar David says:

    Wow, 1 Million or more?! I thought Guns were banned in NY.
    Why certify if you can’t carry it, be found out you are carrying, and go to jail for carrying it.
    Legal or not YOU Will be going to Jail in NY you know this.
    NY Laws are so F-ed up.

  22. avatar WARFAB says:

    I wonder how many NYS pistol permit holders area aware they need to recertify, or aware of the consequences if they don’t.

    Direct quotes from page 12 of the NYSP SAFE Act enforcement guidelines.

    “Becoming ineligible at later time results in revocation

    If a licensee at any time becomes ineligible to hold a license, the license is considered to
    be revoked under an amendment to PL 400.00 (11). In such case, the person is required to
    surrender his or her license to the appropriate licensing official and any and all firearms,
    rifles or shotguns owned or possessed by the person must be surrendered to a law
    enforcement agency. ”

    “If a person becomes ineligible to hold a pistol permit, the Safe Act
    requires the person to surrender all firearms to police, including all
    rifles and shotguns for which no license or registration is required.”

    http://www.nypdcea.org/pdfs/nysp_safe_act_field_guide.pdf

  23. avatar Matt says:

    Of these 200,000 did the illegal gun owners and criminals voluntary register their guns ?

  24. avatar Robert says:

    Liberals never “think” through anything because they are incapable of logical, rational thought. They were all born deformed. God bless their poor little souls.

  25. avatar James says:

    Come on down to North Carolina and you can own suppressors and AR’s.

    I escaped from NY (LI) in 1990 and have not looked back once.
    I gave up on a target pistol permit, six pages of NCR paper, five referenced not blood or related in any way, expensive fees no refunds if not approved. What a joke.

    1991, after six months NC residency, my coworker signed as a reference, $5.00 purchase permit ($10 for a pair). Ruger P89DC in my hands two weeks later at LGS.

    I have concealed permit and no longer need purchase permits. No NICS for me as my CHP is accepted in all gun stores in my state. YAHOO.

    SO Gov Cuomo can shove it.

    1. avatar Jeff K says:

      And the NC CHP is good in 39 states.

  26. avatar Gman says:

    1.25 million hand gun owners out of a population of 20 million? That’s WAY below the estimated national average of 30-40%. I guess it is true that a very large percentage of NY gun owners are now defacto felons by choice. Oh the horror! When will these “dangerous” folk be put away for life? For the children of course.

  27. avatar Jay sitting nice and Comfortable in Florida with 12 hannduns and 3 rifles says:

    Here I sit in Florida gone from NY for over 20 years and get to laugh at Cuomo the little want to be dictator of NY. A fool if there ever was one.
    Over 1 million gun owners wont recertify anything. Or wait until Jan 31 to do it online. They along with a few hundred thousand AR/AK etc owners. The same folks actually who are still waiting to see what Musollini (speil Quek) Jr does about all the nonregistered rifles they own.

  28. avatar Matt says:

    The confusion is not a defect of the process. It’s a feature. Didn’t make the deadline? Tough cookies. Turn your guns in and re-apply for a permit. (Which will never be granted).

    1. avatar Jay very happily in Florida and Not in NY. says:

      The NYS troopers don’t have the resources to chase down delinquent gun owners nor would any of them want to be the 1st ones to get shot at. And that would happen in the rural area I lived in. I know for a fact the locals don’t have the cops. In my former town they had 5 cops. 2 full time 3 part time who worked on odd days in town A. Even days in town B. Other then the NYC area. Its a pretty rural state and the folks there don’t give a crap what Mussolini Jr says or says he would do. I haven’t lived in NY for over 20 years. Guess what I did on line and got recertified in 2 days??? There is no way they can check each applicant. Let alone hundreds of thousands in a few days. Their system would be buried.

  29. avatar SAMUEL LEE says:

    The best way to solve the problem
    Any law enforcement that buys a pistol or needs Parts gets charged 1000% more than what they paid before this Fiasco and their ammunition of any caliber should be $10 per round….PROBLEM SOLVED

  30. avatar #Merica says:

    Time for giving up OUR gun rights is past! For nearly 84 yrs we have given up thousands of times without any give back! 22,000–0 does not seem fair to me! A right lost or a anti-gun law passed is lost forever.

    Look at the 1934 NFA! Have we got that illegal POS back??? #SHALLNOTBEINFRINGED IS PRETTY CLEAR!

    ATF seeking comments on making bump stocks & other devices a NFA items meaning machine-guns. Thanks for supporting our Original natural born human right.

    https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=ATF_FRDOC_0001-0035

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