TTAG Daily Digest: Decoupling Gun Stocks, Congress Doing What it Does Best and Contagious Gun Violence

With Republicans in control, gun stocks aren't sensitive to mass shootings.

Courtesy Axios

Yes, well compare who’s running Congress and the White House now to who was in control after Newtown . . . Gun stocks decouple from gun massacres

Gun stocks often rise on the heels of well-publicized gun violence, but it isn’t happening after yesterday’s horrific events in Sutherland Springs, Texas. Shares of such companies as Sturm Ruger, American Outdoor Brands and Vista Outdoor all are down in Monday’s mid-day trading.

Why Congress has done nothing on guns

Courtesy The Atlantic and AP

Keep pushing the rock up that hill . . . Why Congress Has Done Nothing on Guns

(Representative Charlie) Dent, who is retiring at the end of next year, said that he’s still committed to bump-stock legislation even if his more conservative colleagues are not. “There are just a lot of members who believe that any change to the law as it relates to firearms is tantamount to allowing the camel’s nose under the tent,” he told me. “I don’t abide by that.” Dent said he believes the majority of his constituents support the ban, even though they don’t contact him in the same numbers.

Ultimately, that dynamic—the disparity between the number of Americans who support more regulations and the number who lobby Congress and base their votes on limiting regulations—is what advocates of gun control are trying to flip. “We know that we have the vast majority of Americans on our side on this issue,” Brown said. “What has to happen, though, is they need to become as vocal about this issue and as active on this issue as the small minority is on the other side.”

The good guy with a gun theory is a myth. Allegedly.

Courtesy Splinter and Getty

How many more would Kelley have killed if Stephen Willeford hadn’t shot him? . . . The ‘Good Guy With a Gun’ Is a Useless Myth

First things first: the “good guy with a gun” narrative, at least as the facts currently stand, doesn’t seem to fit here. The deadly shooting at the church was already over. A staggering 7% of the tiny community’s population had been either killed or wounded, and the gunman was leaving the church when the resident grabbed his own rifle to fight back. There’s no telling what Kelley’s further plans were, but our hero Texan was, unfortunately, too late to do much good for those in the church.

More broadly, as Stanford researchers reviewing nearly four decades of crime data found in a study published in June, the myth of a good guy with a gun stepping up in a moment of crisis doesn’t hold water. Over time, more people carrying guns has just meant more gun crime.

Pres Trump says extreme vetting wouldn't have made a difference in Sutherland Springs church shooting.

Courtesy CNBC and Getty

Criminals always find a way . . . Trump says extreme vetting on guns wouldn’t stop mass shootings

President Donald Trump said Tuesday that extreme vetting of U.S. gun owners would have made “no difference” to the Texas church shooting.

Speaking at a joint press conference alongside South Korean President Moon Jae-in in Seoul, Trump was asked by a reporter whether he had considered extreme vetting for U.S. citizens seeking to buy a gun. He replied: “If you did what you are suggesting, there would have been no difference three days ago.”

Some egg heads think gun violence is contagious.

Courtesy medicalxpress.com

No. Next question . . . Is Gun Violence Contagious?

“We found that a substantial fraction of the gun violence was better characterized as this endemic, non-random clustering rather than as an epidemic, contagious, diffusing process,” he says.

Effective use of this information requires implementing problem-solving tactics with a better chance for success, place-based interventions that target features of a neighborhood rather than those aimed at individuals or groups, the researchers say. For instance, the greening of vacant lots or hotspot policing that puts resources toward watching crime clusters rather than toward a generic patrol.

Right now, the researchers don’t know whether the results hold up for other locales, but say they plan to find out.

The New York Times says America has a mass shooter problem.

Courtesy nytimes.com

What Explains U.S. Mass Shootings? International Comparisons Suggest an Answer

America’s gun homicide rate was 33 per million people in 2009, far exceeding the average among developed countries. In Canada and Britain, it was 5 per million and 0.7 per million, respectively, which also corresponds with differences in gun ownership.

Americans sometimes see this as an expression of deeper problems with crime, a notion ingrained, in part, by a series of films portraying urban gang violence in the early 1990s. But the United States is not actually more prone to crime than other developed countries, according to a landmark 1999 study by Franklin E. Zimring and Gordon Hawkins of the University of California, Berkeley.

Rather, they found, in data that has since been repeatedly confirmed, that American crime is simply more lethal. A New Yorker is just as likely to be robbed as a Londoner, for instance, but the New Yorker is 54 times more likely to be killed in the process.

Works better than Ambien:

comments

  1. avatar MikeJH121 says:

    We complain about the celebs…as in what the hell do they know….they just acted as a doctor, race car driver..etc….and now somehow they are an expert.

    And then there is James Woods comments above….gotta admit that is funny right there.

    1. avatar Makes Sense says:

      As in * B O O M *, mic drop funny.
      I laughed my ass off when I read that.

      And the pic of the nice chap helping the young lady with her grip technique.
      OUCH¡!
      Fail on several levels.
      I mean, right off the bat she isn’t holding it sideways…

      1. avatar Chadwick says:

        As a Utahn I will gladly claim James Woods as one of ours.

    2. avatar anonymoose says:

      That was an absolutely savage tweet. Love it!

  2. avatar strych9 says:

    “There’s no telling what Kelley’s further plans were, but our hero Texan was, unfortunately, too late to do much good for those in the church.”

    Unless of course he planned on going to other places and shooting more people… which his loadout would suggest he did and which this sentence openly admits was a possibility the author can’t calculate the risk and/or damage of.

    You know what’s wrong with this country? There’s a lot of people that are flat out retarded.

    1. avatar Chadwick says:

      If it advances their narrative they will say “if it only saves one life”. When it goes against their narrative that one life is worthless. Libtards can believe two separate things to be true and not see the obvious conflict. A lack of critical thinking skills…

    2. avatar Southern Cross says:

      There was mention in the local fish-wrappers (newspapers) that in Kelley’s social media posts he mentioned a fascination with spree killers and their celebrity status.

      A wife-beating, child-assaulting, fundamentalist evangelical atheist who wants his five seconds of infamy as a mass killer.

      He ticks a lot of diversity boxes.

      He had better be cremated and the ashes scattered to the winds. Otherwise his grave will be the biggest outdoor toilet in Texas.

    3. avatar jwtaylor says:

      He probably got it all out of his system. You know, still had guns, still had ammunition, still holding a rifle, shot two people outside, but after that, probably just got it all out. I’m sure he would have started living a good life after that, probably given up to authorities. Heck, he was probably just getting in his car to drive to the police station, after picking up a Hallmark card to say he was sorry. Nothing would suggest he would continue further violence, right?

  3. avatar Mark N. says:

    So the NRA is “soaked in blood” even though it was a screw up by the USAF (and/or the State of New Mexico), i.e., “the government’s” failure to report this guy’s disqualified status to the FBI that allowed this guy to pass a background check? Am I missing something, or is there a logical disconnect in there?

    Where is Mexico, Venezuela and Brazil on that chart? Or are they all off the chart?

  4. avatar Frank in VA says:

    Since TTAG doesn’t really do much politics outside the 2A issues, there is no relevant article for me to express my thoughts at the results of Virginia’s election today. I hope you’ll forgive me if I supplement the Daily Digest with my commentary, as follows:

    Fuck.

    Fuck. Fuck. Fuck.

    FUCK.

    1. avatar Chadwick says:

      Sorry brother. There’s a lot of dumb to overcome in a state like that. Plenty of good people are held down by some dumb voters and vicious narcissists.

      1. avatar Frank in VA says:

        Yeah. As you can see from the map of today’s election, the ‘dumb’ is highly concentrated in certain areas:

        https://www.washingtonpost.com/2017-election-results/virginia

        And yet those blue zones gave elected democrats for Governor, Lt. Governor and Attorney General

      2. avatar Rob"NazyCegroWithAGun"Williams says:

        Dumb voters… dumb voters, let me see… ah yes the 71% of white guys with a high school diploma or less education who propelled this Gump into the White House!

        Vicious narcissists…hold on now… vicious narcissists… yeah, like the ethnocentric monolinguists who reckon they are the kings of the hill because they are American and speak English, like the Chump-in-Chief who has such a huge crush on himself he has to lash out at anyone who doesnt praise him sufficiently be it random twitterers or celebraties or even his own staff!!

        1. avatar CC says:

          A majority of employed Americans voted for Trump.

          And if not for person with NO high school diploma Obama would not have won

        2. avatar Chadwick says:

          Isn’t today your scream day snowflake?

        3. avatar Troll Baitin' says:

          Rather have the Chimp back than the Chump, Rob?

        4. avatar Scoutino says:

          You keep repeating ‘white guys’ as if it was something bad. Hell, you keep repeating ‘with high school diploma or less’ as if that was something bad! You are glowing example of person educated above his intelligence level.
          This four languages speaking, no college degree holding gun owner says: go to hell!

      3. avatar Mister Fleas says:

        Lots of vote fraud to overcome as well.

    2. avatar Geoff PR says:

      {Virginia state election}

      “FUCK.”

      It’s not good, but in the overall scheme of things, it’s still just a shitty little statehouse election that has minimal impact at the Federal level…

      1. avatar ropingdown says:

        I don’t see why people should be upset with the NJ and VA voting results. The voters there are just going to get what they want, and get it again and again, good and hard.

      2. avatar Frank in VA says:

        For now, yeah. But in a few years the Governor’s mansion may come into play nationally when it is time to redraw Virginia’s congressional districts after the 2020 census. The legislature may still be in Republican hands, but the Governor has veto power over those maps.

    3. avatar NJ_Doc says:

      Same for New Jersey

    4. avatar Tile floor says:

      I came here to post similar sentiments. Fuck is right. I voted at 745 this morning and I already had a bad feeling.

      I wish DC would annex nova

    5. avatar Emfourty Gasmask says:

      Tell your state members to stop voting in RINO Cucks then. Ed never had a chance and running on a muh#NeverTrump campaign like he did, like an idiot, is what costed him this election. Nobody wants that brand of GOP anymore.

    6. avatar Rob"NazyCegroWithAGun"Williams says:

      Mark Levine is having a special circle-jerk for yall in ole Ginny to mourn the failure to elect another retrograde jackball… try to soldier on boys : D

    7. avatar The Punisher says:

      SIlly Frank. Voting at the polls doesn’t work.

      Must vote with your feet and your wallet.

      If one isn’t willing to do one or the other or both, then it’s very simple: you have the government you deserve.

      Government boils down to some very basic principles: Power, Money, People.

      We give government the monopoly on force and power and then bitch about it when it doesn’t go our way.

      If you vote with your feet and move you essentially take all three things away: less money for the government to steal and waste, less people to exert control over and therefore less power overall.

      That’s the peaceful method.

      The only other way is violent revolution, but history has shown that in many cases all that does is cause people who simply want to have the control of that monopoly on power and so they subvert the revolution and then once in power they just do the exact same thing the people they just deposed did.

      Until we get over our delusions and realize that government is the problem not simply if an R or a D holds some office then absolutely nothing will change.

      Then again, economic apocalypse is coming either way so it really doesn’t matter…

  5. avatar Hank says:

    Tavor 7 looks like a good choice these days, if these crazed liberals that go on killing sprees are going to start wearing body armor.

    1. avatar troutbum5 says:

      Pelvic girdle shot. Shatter their pelvis and they will drop like a stone. And most likely be too distracted by the pain to do more than scream.

  6. avatar John78723 says:

    The media always talks about other developed countries. I’m going to say it, I’m sure it makes me a racist even though I’m in an inter-racial relationship. Here goes though, no one has the balls in the government to talk about demographics. These other countries, the problem cities in our nation, these cities and us as a country have a common denominator that no one can talk about.

    I understand that as a politician no one can say anything because in today’s PC culture it would be career suicide.

    There goes, let the hate begin.

    1. avatar Rob"NazyCegroWithAGun"Williams says:

      THANK YOU for being honest in your post and I hope youll seriously consider my sincere reply.

      First, having sex with a black guy does not magically cleanse you or make you somehow immune to the racism that all of us are immersed in in racist America all day everyday. Understand, you are not miraculously transmogrified in a unique being with no racism because you share orgams with your beau.

      I hope this is clear to you, that just like having a “good black friend” or having a black gardener or eating lunch with your black buddy at work or going to a black doctor etc, none of these things of course magically eradicate the racism inculcated in all of us from day one…

      This is really an embarrassingly ignorant claim, you need to wake up…

      1. avatar CC says:

        Study after study shows blacks and Hispanics tend to be more racist. Even non white taxi and Uber drivers are the ones most likely to avoid picking up passengers of certain races.

        As far as why it is that African American males between the age of 16-55 are 6% of the population, yet commit over half of murder and mass shootings, murder police at 6 times the per capita rate, or that on a per capita to per capita basis Blacks murder whites are 40% elevated rates, it is not a genetic factor, but something within African American culture that celebrates violence.

    2. avatar Rob"NazyCegroWithAGun"Williams says:

      The media always talks about other developed countries. I’m going to say it, I’m sure it makes me a racist even though I’m in an inter-racial relationship. Here goes though, no one has the balls in the government to talk about demographics. These other countries, the problem cities in our nation, these cities and us as a country have a common denominator that no one can talk about.

      I understand that as a politician no one can say anything because in today’s PC culture it would be career suicide.

      There goes, let the hate begin.

      Also you claim that black folks both in developing countries and here in the US are criminals:

      “… talk about demographics. These other countries, the problem cities in our nation, these cities and us as a country have a common denominator that no one can talk about.”

      Now this is by far the most shockingly ignorant post by a sincere person that I have ever seen, there is so much wrong with it it actually made me gasp when I read it…

      So first of all black folks in America are not a homogeneous group, and as in any group only a tiny minority of black folks commit crimes. And black folks in America have little in common with black folks in say Nigeria (a former British colony) or the Congo (Belgian) or Burundi (Dutch) or Mozambique (Portugesse) or Cote d’Ivoire (French) or Namibia (German) or Ethiopia one of two nations in sub-Saharan Africa never colonized or even Liberia the former American colony, and of course in addition to the distinctiveness that imperialism imposed on these folks they also have there own inherent cultural differences, ethnic and religious and otherwise.

      So your delusion that the myriad groups of black folks in America and Africa and around the world are somehow inherently prone to commit crime is just goofy, silly stuff, something a Klansman from the 19th century would stupidly expound. You REALLY need to wake up on this score…

      Likewise your presumption that the developing world is comprised of black folks is of course ludicrous… Burmese, Venezuelans, Moroccans, Lebanesse, Mongolians, Uzbeks, Indians, Afghans and countless other poor people around the world neither identify as “black” nor of course are they inherently criminal. Again you REALLY need to have a look around

      I hope you are a big enough man not to stupidly dismiss my post as “hate”; you posted some breathtakingly ignorant racist remarks and I corrected you

    3. avatar Rob"NazyCegroWithAGun"Williams says:

      Also you claim that black folks both in developing countries and here in the US are criminals:

      “… talk about demographics. These other countries, the problem cities in our nation, these cities and us as a country have a common denominator that no one can talk about.”

      Now this is by far the most shockingly ignorant post by a sincere person that I have ever seen, there is so much wrong with it it actually made me gasp when I read it…

      So first of all black folks in America are not a homogeneous group, and as in any group only a tiny minority of black folks commit crimes. And black folks in America have little in common with black folks in say Nigeria (a former British colony) or the Congo (Belgian) or Burundi (Dutch) or Mozambique (Portugesse) or Cote d’Ivoire (French) or Namibia (German) or Ethiopia one of two nations in sub-Saharan Africa never colonized or even Liberia the former American colony, and of course in addition to the distinctiveness that imperialism imposed on these folks they also have there own inherent cultural differences, ethnic and religious and otherwise.

      So your delusion that the myriad groups of black folks in America and Africa and around the world are somehow inherently prone to commit crime is just goofy, silly stuff, something a Klansman from the 19th century would stupidly expound. You REALLY need to wake up on this score…

      Likewise your presumption that the developing world is comprised of black folks is of course ludicrous… Burmese, Venezuelans, Moroccans, Lebanesse, Mongolians, Uzbeks, Indians, Afghans and countless other poor people around the world neither identify as “black” nor of course are they inherently criminal. Again you REALLY need to have a look around

      I hope you are a big enough man not to stupidly dismiss my post as “hate”; you posted some breathtakingly ignorant racist remarks and I corrected you

  7. avatar joetast says:

    The statics show that gun control on the planet Uranus, blah blah blah,,,,, Who cares,? it’s not about Australia, England, China, or Uranus

    1. avatar joetast says:

      Statistics, lol I caint spells to gud

    2. avatar Rob"NazyCegroWithAGun"Williams says:

      Joetast your the anus, sincerely, youre a real smoe and an anus-brained jerk, on any decent site you would banned.

  8. avatar Frank in VA says:

    If we laid the blame for every terror attack by immigrants on those who support open immigration, and labeled the pro-immigration politicians and media pundits as terrorists and ‘blood-soaked’ accomplices by association, the leftist media would have a meltdown. Yet they have no problem with the same kind of accusation leveled at the NRA and it’s members every time a killer exploits our freedoms to do harm.

    I think we should point this out more often.

  9. avatar former water walker says:

    I would suggest if gun companies want to move their product deep discounts are in order. I have a gun currently on layaway…my LGS guy stated “we want you to be happy”. Low prices and service make happy. Oh and so does James Woods! Hope he works again…

    1. avatar Stinkeye says:

      Deep discounts? How much deeper can they discount and not go bankrupt? You can piece together a starter-level AR for around $300, or buy a Ruger or S&W one for $450. I got a S&W Shield for $200 this summer. That’s freakin’ Hi-Point pricing. Bushmaster is offering $150 rebates on their ARs, and damn near every manufacturer is offering or has recently offered $50-$100 rebates on polymer pistols. Guns are about as cheap now as they can be. I mean, what’s the profit margin on a $350 AR-15?

      1. avatar former water walker says:

        If they pay my bills I’ll care. Cry me a river…

  10. avatar AKFred says:

    Well I for one support much more stringent guns laws.
    Since most violent gun crimes seems to be committed by democrats, no democrat should be allowed to own a firearm. To purchase a firearm you must present a valid voter ID card and if it states you are a democrat then “No Gun For YOU”. Their names could be on a national registry for easy cross reference to prevent illegal purchases of firearms and to help prevent all this violent crime, they should really get behind that. All democrats have to register and turn their guns in.
    I also don’t support capital punishment, ie… the Death penalty. It should be relabeled as a “POST TERM ABORTION”. All democrats should be able to get behind that, since they do love their abortions.

    1. avatar Southern Cross says:

      It hasn’t been confirmed if Devin Kelley was a registered Democrat but with 7 of the previous 10 mass killers before him being registered (D)s I wouldn’t be surprised. It is almost a statistically inevitable.

  11. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

    James Woods Rocks!

  12. avatar jug says:

    AKFred, you got it my man!

    Democrats, aka “Commiecrats” should be automatically on the prohibitted list!

  13. avatar Felix says:

    Saw a study some (gunnie) did once, in response to a study by Mother Jones or some other anti-gunner which made the same claim, that almost no mass shootings were ever stopped by a good guy with a gun before cops showed.

    The gunnie had an idea: since gunners are the true first responders, what difference would that make? Turned out the anti-gun study set a cutoff of four deaths; less than that was not a mass killing, and so not counted. The gunner went back to back sources and tabulated his own list of spree killers, who targeted strangers and were clearly out to raise mayhem in general. He found that almost all such spree killers were brought up short before the 4 death cutoff, by first responder civilians (don’t even think about correcting my usage), and often the spree killers would commit suicide just at the sight of opposition, without even being shot at.

    In other words, if you look at mass killings, you will miss all the spree killers who were stopped short of becoming mass killers because a good guy with a gun scared them to death, literally.

  14. avatar CC says:

    A New Yorker is just as likely to be robbed as a Londoner, for instance, but the New Yorker is 54 times more likely to be killed in the process.

    A New Yorker with no criminal arrest history is less likely to be killed in robbery than a Londoner

  15. avatar little horn says:

    aahhhh good ol’ james woods. love that man.

  16. avatar Manse Jolly says:

    What was that move called that the uniforms did in the Tavor video?

    Must be an operator thing I guess.

  17. avatar EJQ says:

    It always amazes me when the U.S. is compared to Canada. U.S. Population is about 308 million people. Canada, although about the same size, has a population of about 33 million people.

  18. avatar Grumpy says:

    Just a thought. The USAF screwed up by not reporting his criminal record. There was enough history though that Texas denied him a conceal permit, so we could have seen this coming. The system is broken like a lot of things in government, fixing it is still possible rather than replacing it.

    Next, we have a history of abusing wife, kid and critters. As a society, we need to take these actions seriously. Most likely the bastard started abusing critters first, then escalated to wife, kids and ultimately a whole church full of people. If we (as a society) had taken his first offense seriously and punished him to the fullest extent of the law, he might have learned a lesson and not escalated to a mass shooting. Even is he was evil to the core and not going to change, beating your wife and kid should have earned him a long prison term. Some people are not fit to be free and generally this types self select themselves with criminal choices.

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