TTAG Daily Digest: Walmart Concealed Carriers, Massachusetts Gun Control and Toddlers With Rifles

Shooting inside Thornton Walmart

It doesn’t even occur to the Denver Post that one of those concealed carriers may have actually dissuaded the shooter from continuing . . . Panicked people, shoppers drawing guns created chaos, delayed investigation into Thornton Walmart shooting

When detectives began reviewing video footage, they noticed multiple people drawing guns, Avila said. That slowed the process of identifying who and how many suspects were involved in the shooting, he said.

“Once the building was safe enough to get into it, we started reviewing that (surveillance video) as quickly as we could,” he said. “That’s when we started noticing” that a number of individuals had pulled weapons. “At that point, as soon as you see that, that’s the one you try to trace through the store, only to maybe find out that’s not him, and we’re back to ground zero again, starting to look again. That’s what led to the extended time.”

Only three countries in the world protect the right to bear arms in their constitutions.

Can guess the other two? . . . Only 3 countries in the world protect the right to bear arms in their constitutions

The right to keep and bear arms is a longstanding, often glorified right protected by the US Constitution.

Americans own nearly half of all the civilian-owned guns in the world, and on a per capita basis, the US has far more guns than any other nation.

Certainly, many countries are awash with guns. Among the nations with the most firearms are Serbia, Yemen, Switzerland, and Saudi Arabia.

There are only three countries, however, that have a constitutional right to keep and bear arms . . .

Massachusetts Gov. Charlie Baker has a gun control bill on his desk. (courtesy bostonglobe.com)

Gee, do you think he’ll sign it? . . . Massachusetts: Gun Control Bill Hits Governor Baker’s Desk

Under this provision, a “Bump Stock” is defined as a device for a semiautomatic firearm that increases the rate of fire achievable with such firearm by using energy from the recoil of the firearm to generate a reciprocating action that facilitates repeated activation of the trigger.  A “Trigger Crank” is defined as any device to be attached to a semi-automatic firearm that repeatedly activates the trigger of the firearm through the use of a lever or other part that is turned in a circular motion, but does not include any firearm initially designed and manufactured to fire through the use of a crank or lever.

The provision allows for the excessive punishment of life imprisonment, but with a minimum sentence of 18 months, for the mere possession of these accessories.

CMA Awards apologizes, says reporters won’t be kicked out for asking questions about guns

Such strict general guidelines might sound surprising, but country singers tried very hard this past year to stay politically neutral. Only a handful of Nashville stars endorsed a presidential candidate or talked candidly about the election.

After Las Vegas, the country music community was horrified — Jason Aldean, who was onstage when the shooting started, visited victims in the hospital. Morris released a song called “Dear Hate” to raise money for the victims. Keith Urban and Vince Gill performed at a vigil. Margo Price, an independent artist, was one of the fewwho brought up the topic of guns, tweeting “we need stricter gun control, plain and simple.”

“I have some people on Twitter who say, ‘You’re not big enough to talk about politics; you don’t want to alienate your crowd; you need to separate your music and political beliefs,’ ” Price told The Washington Post in a story about whether country artists would be able to stay apolitical after Las Vegas. “More people should be unafraid to speak out.”

Toddlers can now hunt in Wisconsin.

Reductio ad Newsweek . . . Toddlers Could Hunt With Guns in Wisconsin Under New Bill

Even toddlers can hunt with guns in Wisconsin, under a bill the state Assembly passed that removes age restrictions on the sport.

The previous bill set the age at 12, while 10-year-olds could hunt with a “mentor,” usually a parent or a guardian. The new law removes that restriction, leaving the minimum age up to parents to decide. It also eliminates the limit on the number of guns young hunters can carry at one time.

“To allow … a toddler, a 2-year-old [to carry a gun]—and I’m not being hyperbolic, because someone will allow it—is dangerous,” Katrina Shankland, a Democrat and state representative, told the Associated Press. “Other hunters in the woods are not going to choose to get hurt by a child with a rifle.”

How to choose the right choke tube courtesy Hinterland Outfitters.

 

comments

  1. avatar Nanashi says:

    Ask the idiots in Wisconsin what the minimum age should be. They’ll quickly reveal they don’t want any hunting.

    1. avatar WI Patriot says:

      Typical nob gobbler comment…

  2. avatar Joe R. says:

    ““Once the building was safe enough to get into it, we started reviewing that (surveillance video) as quickly as we could,” ”

    READ: “Once the THE CITIZENS WITH GUNS MADE THE building safe enough to get into it, we started reviewing that (surveillance video) as quickly as we could,”

    break

    F MA, F em all

    break

    LOVE to see toddlers with guns, those kids are going to grow up giving the middle finger to the gun grabbers real early.

    1. avatar Mister Fleas says:

      +1

  3. avatar Joe R. says:

    Thanks for the choke chart !

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Me, too. Now, can anyone tell me where I would look on my Mossy to find out what choke it has?

      1. avatar David says:

        Shotguns usually list the choke on the left side of the barrel right in front of the receiver, where the roll mark is. It should be with the text saying the company, model, gauge, and chamber length

  4. avatar Geoff PR says:

    “When detectives began reviewing video footage, they noticed multiple people drawing guns, Avila said.”

    And *zero* negligent discharges by the concealed carriers.

    So much for the Leftist’s claim that if there were a public mass shooting, it would turn into a ‘wild west’ shoot-out with rivers of blood in the isles.

    And this one –

    Mexico has a constitutional right to keep and bear arms.

    *snort*

    We’ve certainly seen just how that has been working out for them…

    1. avatar El Bearsidente says:

      Gives the normal people a chance to fight back and defend themselves.

      We’ve seen how Mexican police can’t handle all the cartel violence, because there’s simply not enough cops. And the cartels would have full armories either way.

      As reaction Mexico now has vigilante groups that defend their neighborhoods.

      Imagine how this would go in “sophisticated” Europe. Nobody would fight back, nobody would defend themselves out of fear they’d be called racist or Nazi. And the funny thing is, this is actually happening.

      1. avatar MamaLiberty says:

        Because there are “not enough cops”… Are you serious? I lived in Mexico for a while 30 years ago, and even then the “cops” were a grave danger to ordinary people. The cops went to war occasionally with the cartels even then, but it was merely a fight over who would control the territory and the swag. Has nothing to do with protecting the people there, anymore than it does in the US.

        The “war on drugs” is the problem. Eliminate that (and all other prohibitions) and the cartels would be out of business in short order. That might tone down the corruption of the politicians and police in Mexico, or not… but it could certainly help.

        1. avatar Bubba Watson says:

          The Cartels would not disappear if dope was legalized. The price of legal grass is exorbitant and there would still be fighting over the product. Even if the government gave away free dope to anyone who wanted it, the cartels would turn to kidnapping & extortion & robbery to generate income. The violence is NOT going away.

        2. avatar MamaLiberty says:

          And you know this because? There will always be crime and criminals, of course. The best idea is to get the government and police out of committing the crimes as much as possible. Then ordinary people can further discourage crime everywhere. The prohibitions simply make all those crimes you cite much, much worse.

          Read about the prohibition of alcohol, and what happened after that was repealed. We didn’t get a free market afterwards, for sure, but the bootleg cartels were out of business. The Coors distributors don’t gun down the folks selling Budwieser these days, now do they?

        3. avatar doesky2 says:

          If dope was free from the government then I’m sure the now un-employed drug peddlers will fall back to their original occupations of engineering and medical professionals.

          I do think legalizing drugs would be a grand social experiment and since I live out in the sticks I probably wouldn’t be impacted as much as all the city-dwelling Leftist millenials getting mugged and robbed at probably much higher rates. It would take at least 20-40 years of carnage in the cities to arrest, prison, and age-out most of the scumbags in the pipeline.

        4. avatar MamaLiberty says:

          And you know this because? You are clairvoyant and can guarantee this outcome?

          What the current drug dealers, etc. do in a free market, free society is certainly not clear, and it is nobody’s business but theirs what they do anyway. Or anyone else. And the black market in drugs is only one of the problems in America today, so repealing that one thing is not going to be enough. But you might be very surprised anyway.

          Decriminalization of all things prohibited now would make a vast difference, since anyone, anywhere could do what they needed to live their lives and defend themselves against aggressors. Period.

    2. avatar drunkEODguy says:

      Don’t worry, the usual suspects among the big name networks are already pushing the “more guns = more complications” angle, surprising approximately no one. I guess they have to go with that since they’re not seeing the “mass confusion bloodbath shootout” the anti’s tell us will happen without ever citing an incident of it. The anti’s did like to cite the data (selected) that says that CC rarely stoops mass shooters and that it’s usually an unarmed person. Never mind that if the carrier shoots the baddie dead before said baddie kills 4 people its not a “mass” shooting, lets not forget also that it doesn’t count if the aggressor encounters resistance then promptly retreats and self-aborts from the gene pool it doesn’t count either. Nope, only the set conditions apply.

      Further the police should have just asked the CC’ers who the bad guy was since they apparently did a fine job of identifying who WASN’T a threat with a gun and who was.

  5. avatar Rick the Bear says:

    Baker is a RINO squish. He’ll sign in.

    1. avatar DDay says:

      The Lt Governor signed it today, I assume baker was out of the state.

      It did not matter if he signed it or not, literally 95% of the legislature are liberal democrats, they can override any veto within a day.

  6. avatar Chip in Florida says:

    “…Under this provision, a “Bump Stock” is defined as a device”

    I thought the NRA was playing some super-smart political game to set up the situation where the politicians wouldn’t try to make more gun control legislation until after the ATF finished their review of the devices…..

    /sarc

    1. avatar Charles says:

      Well, so far that is the “best” bumpstock language I have seen, in that it is pretty specific, beats what the folks in Washington have been tossing around.

    2. avatar Ansel Hazen says:

      They won’t wait cause what if the ATF comes back and says no change in status? Got to grab while the grabbin is possible ya know.

  7. avatar former water walker says:

    One wonders how many additional casualties would have occurred if all the legal(?)gun toters HADN’T pulled guns. The news media always gets it wrong…everyone ready for Antifa tomorrow?!?😡

    1. avatar BLoving says:

      In the Free States: *fizzle*, *sputter*, and… nothing…
      In the Slave States: yeah, this ought to be interesting…

  8. avatar cmac890 says:

    So anyone in MA who already owns a bump stock now faces 18 months to life. Wonder if Healy will try a fishing expedition thru Slide Fire Solution’s records to find someone to jail.

  9. avatar LHW says:

    I’m sure the state of taxechusetts will ban a harmless piece of plastic. Because feelz.

  10. avatar Hank says:

    Antifa is planning their cute little “overthrow” tomorrow. I have a feeling it’ll pretty much be a lot like the occupy shit. A bunch of whiny kids sit around in an area and refuse to leave claiming to be taking on the 1% fascist NRA white man until they start to smell too bad, then the police make them go home and take a shower.

    1. avatar Mark Kelly's Diapered Drooling Ventriloquist's Dummy says:

      If they act like they did in Boston before the blizzard a few years ago chaining themselves up between concrete filled barrels and across a roadway just do as the highway workers did, find a location higher in elevation and pester them by throwing pebbles at their heads, with arms handcuffed together they are incapable of protecting their heads.

      1. avatar TrueBornSonofLiberty says:

        Pebbles?????? I think you meant to write boulders. Or better yet, cluster bombs. Amiright?

  11. avatar FrogHill says:

    If a cop, detective or an “Investigator” can’t look at the multiple cameras in Wally World, and tell the difference between whom it is that is shooting at the victims/people, more than likely standing straight up, shooting and moving/searching for victims, and the people whom have a gun drawn, crouching and more than likely in a stationary position, looking in all directions to locate the active shooter then maybe these cops should be handcuffed to a desk, answering phones and making covfefe

  12. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

    OK, about chokes:

    Go pattern your gun. Set up a pattern board at your shooting range (google “shotgun pattern board” and learn how to pattern a shotgun). Get the ammo you want to use in your gun.

    Then go pattern your chokes. You might be quite surprised – many people are. Often, “tight” chokes end up creating patterns with large holes in them, or patterns that are off-center, etc.

    What I’ve observed is that most people end up being pleased with the patterns they get from modified to improved modified chokes, and often full or extra-full chokes display disappointing patterns.

    One of the reasons why I believe this is: There’s only so much constriction you can apply to the shot charge per length of shotgun barrel before you’re slamming the shot inwards and deforming the shot or skewing the shot charge as it is about to come out of the barrel. This is where the old fixed chokes in the guns of 50+ years ago excelled – they might take 6″ of barrel at the end of the barrel to constrict to a “full” choke (or extra-full). Screw-in chokes typically have no more than 3″ of barrel length to perform this constriction. I’ve seen many guns with modern, tight chokes that give patterns with large interior holes in them, skewed patterns, etc. Back it down to improved or modified, and suddenly you have a pretty nice pattern.

    1. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

      Spot on Sir. Spot on.
      At my local club, we have a patterning wall. It’s hardly ever used. I get almost exclusive use of it when I get a new shotgun.
      I’ve also tested various brands od “OO” buck and #4 buck. I much prefer #4 buck.

      1. avatar Geoff PR says:

        “At my local club, we have a patterning wall.”

        Is that just a wood backstop with a fresh coat of white on it?

    2. avatar jwm says:

      Quail hunting with steel no. 7 I’ve dropped all the way back to improved cylinder. And it works quite well. I put the modified choke in for tomorrows hunt because of the chance for large gray squirrels along with the quail. I’ll have steel 4s for the rodents and 7s for the birds.

      Overlapping seasons makes an argument for a sxs or o/u.

  13. avatar Mark Kelly's Diapered Drooling Ventriloquist's Dummy says:

    TTAG:

    Thank you, thank you, thank you, for the choke guide, it is greatly appreciated.

  14. avatar Mister Fleas says:

    Two thoughts on the Walmart shooting:

    1. The media is lying again. The police were not delayed(unless their morons) in their investigation. All they had to do to identify the shooter was look at the footage of the FIRST PERSON WITH A GUN(among other things).

    2. The police are quoted as saying “Once the building was safe enough to get into it…”. So the police only entered when they knew the shooter had departed. They customers inside were on their own with an armed murderer. Carry everyday; they police won’t protect you.

  15. avatar Kenneth G Maiden says:

    Damn it, can we knock it off with multi story runs. One at a time please.

    1. avatar MamaLiberty says:

      What is your problem? A “digest” is a post of odds and ends that don’t require a whole post of their own. If you don’t like that, read only the first one… or none. Or start your own blog, Kenneth. You might manage to do better than TTAG, or maybe not…

  16. avatar ATFAgentBob says:

    ugh dang it Wisconsin gets it wrong again! You don’t give a toddler a freaking rifle! It’s way too big a fire arm for them, you give them a revolver or ,ideally, some sort of crew served weapon mounted on a tripod in order to build team work among multiple toddlers. Revolvers can have tiny grips that fit their tiny hands and usually don’t recoil too bad in the toddler approved calibers of 22, 25, 32, and 38. Crew served weapons mitigate recoil by being mounted on a tripod, bipod, or vehicle and allow them to aim with the twist of a knob and maintain a withering counter fire or cover fire as the adults move in on the objective and take out that hostile white tail herd. Get your head outta your a$$ Wisconsin!!! Let the toddlers have a Ma Deuce!

    1. avatar TrueBornSonofLiberty says:

      I’d argue that the perfect weapon for a toddler would be a 4-5lb AR pistol with brace or an sbr, perhaps with an 8” barrel, either in 5.56 or 300blk, with a can to minimize recoil and sound. Seems perfect to me.

      1. avatar Geoff PR says:

        I gotta agree with ‘Bob’ on that one.

        Crew-served weapons are best for toddlers, it builds teamwork.

        Especially good as it builds upper-body strength for them as they hump cans full of ammo and spare barrels for the fire team…

    2. avatar BLoving says:

      You’re all wrong, the toddler is your caddy: do like i did- carry your lil’squirt in one of those “look, I’m a daddy!” backpacks, have her hold your extra magazines, train her to pass one to you over your shoulder as needed when you’re running from station to station at the firing range. 🤠

  17. avatar Aaron M. Walker says:

    1.) If the police in that state acted as described in the article. Then that is nothing more than the cry of tyrants complaining that the peasents have too many rights and it interferes with THEIR jobs! If they DON’T like it and become political. Attacking the citizenry, and NOT uphold the US Constitution, or the Bill of Rights…Then maybe it’s time for them to move on…Maybe go work baking bread, or working a McDonald’s…Either way, they should fired for such activity….

    2.) Massachusetts Governor. Charile “The Barker” Baker is a RINO. He was live on WAAF FM rock radio a guess on the Republican lite Talk show… It about a week ,or so after the Vegas event…The MA. Governor crowed about how good the Massachusetts Draconian gun laws are, how safe we are compared to other states, and how well they work…And he said he would ban bump stock because citizens DON’T need weapons of war…The only reason someone would need something like this is if their with the police, or the military…All according to MA. Gov. Baker. So, as a US citizen, independent voter, and supporter of our Bill of Rights…Please help me make sure to end any future political aspersions of MA. Gov. Baker may have outside of Massachusetts…Please spread the word that this guy is a no-good RINO Globalist Bastard…And definitely NO FRIEND OF THE 2nd Amendment….Probably, includes the rest of our civil rights. Since he supports “No fly, No Buy-secret government watch lists…” Help end his political career…Protect other”Free-states” ! Spread the word !

  18. avatar Big Bill says:

    “At that point, as soon as you see that, that’s the one you try to trace through the store, only to maybe find out that’s not him, and we’re back to ground zero again, starting to look again. That’s what led to the extended time.”
    Sure. Because when eyewitnesses say, “That’s the guy!”, you should ignore them. That’s how investigations go, isn’t it?

  19. avatar FedUp says:

    “The new law removes that restriction, leaving the minimum age up to parents to decide.”

    OMG! That’s terrible! We can’t let parents decide what activities their children are ready for!
    To do that would be like, like, like letting parents exercise parental authority, and everybody knows that only school officials are properly trained to exercise parental authority!!!

  20. avatar BierceAmbrose says:

    Seems odd that the keepers of public order see citizens with arms as of more concern than the bad guy who was actually shooting people. That is, until you realize that from their perspective they are.

  21. avatar BierceAmbrose says:

    So, when we’re reduced to hands, sticks, and knives because no more guns, they’ll take even longer to figure out the BG, because literally everybody will be “armed.”

    I don’t think they’ve thought this through.

  22. avatar Icabod says:

    Let’s see. Police arrive and go to the security cameras. Wait, why not ask a witness “What did he look like?” Pretty much 90% certainty they will get an accurate description. Go to video and find person that matches discription. Ask “Is this him!” Go and arrest.
    BTW, how long for the police to arrive? It’s pretty common that shooters stop as soon as people start pulling guns out.

  23. avatar Dan says:

    “And you know this because? You are clairvoyant and can guarantee this outcome?”

    “What the current drug dealers, etc. do in a free market, free society is certainly not clear, and it is nobody’s business but theirs what they do anyway. Or anyone else. And the black market in drugs is only one of the problems in America today, so repealing that one thing is not going to be enough. But you might be very surprised anyway.”

    You might want to quit the crack your obviously smoking you old bat!

Write a Comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

button to share on facebook
button to tweet
button to share via email