(courtesy youtube.com)

YouTube may have dinged the Military Arms Channel for daring to feature a video of a legal product on his YouTube channel four years ago, and threatened to delete his channel if he didn’t remove all his bump fire stock videos, but founder Tim Harmsen ain’t done with the issue. In the video below . . .

MAC issues a call to [metaphorical] arms to fight to ban “rate increasing devices” for semi-automatics. He points out that the bill has enough loopholes to drive an ATF SWAT team through.

“What is the standard rate of fire for a semi-automatic?” MAC asks. “What is a ‘rate increasing device’?” he demands, pointing out the human finger is a rate increasing device.

The bill as written leaves those decisions to the ATF — just like the NRA wants! Does the NRA, its members and non-affiliated gun owners really think it’s a good idea for the ATF to decide what’s an acceptable rate of fire? Trigger pull weight? Reset distance? Talk about your slippery slope.

“[The bill] will be used to strip us, over time if not immediately, of semi-automatics as a whole,” MAC warns. “This bill is a direct attack on modern carbines.”

Have you contacted your Congressional representatives about this bill?

50 Responses to Military Arms Channel’s Tim Harmsen: Ban on “Rate Increasing Device” Threatens ALL Our Gun Rights

      • He never, ever really reads anything he comments on — and then accuses everyone else of that which he himself is guilty of any time someone disagrees with him.

        What, you may ask? Well, anything.

        • I think the good Sr. Proud Chicano is actually Russian hacker working in a troll farm in St. Petersburg.

    • You’ve been lied to. The list of the unintended consequences will NEVER end. That’s the goal. Please, wake up and start the fight.

    • Get the F*CK OUT OF HERE, obvious SHILL. The adults don’t have any time for your stupidity. Anyone that’s EVER bother to look beyond this days headlines would know clearly that the anti’s are never satisfied with ‘just one common sense (TM) step’.

    • You ready to stand in line at your local police station to turn in your 30 round mags when they come for those next?

  1. ATF are to enforce laws, not interpret them by creating new ones. Tim is right and for once combat all those supposed 2A supporters that saw it simply as a bumpstock issue since the tragedy. Put the legislators on hook for their half-a** attempt at another vague and illogical law which, as already stated, will open the door for further restrictions to fill this one.

        • And exactly where in the enumerated powers granted to the Federal Government via the U.S. Constitution does it allow them to regulate arms? I must have missed that part.

      • Aren’t 99.9% of “laws” such?

        Outside of Murder, theft, assault, fraud, trespassing, what other true classes of crime are there? Most statutes are redundant because they just try to make things “illegaler”.

        Or, if not redundant, just outright not a law. Banning or outlawing objects is not a true law. Where there is no victim there is no trespass.

        Until we, as a people, collectively reject the old foolish notions of what actually constitutes a law this will always be a rinse and repeat process because the only thing that needs to be decided is who holds the power to create new and evermore ridiculous statutes and regulations.

        In 2015 alone there were over 80,000 pages of new regulations and/or statutes created in this country. I believe Mr. Ben Carson said that those pages stack to over three stories high. And that was just one year!

        I’m sure there is no such thing as a “law abiding citizen” in America. How can there be with thousands and thousands of pages of rules, regulations, statutes and laws on the books and more being created every year…

        • I was with ya until, “I’m sure there is no such thing as a “law abiding citizen” in America. How can there be with thousands and thousands of pages of rules, regulations, statutes and laws on the books and more being created every year…”

          If there wasn’t we would all have a rap sheet. The thousands in pages are redundant that must be included for the purpose for what could be a simple amendment. It does not literally mean thousands of NEW regs.

        • JTW : no, he’s quite correct.

          All of those laws aren’t enforced 100% of the time on 100% of the citizenry. There’s no way they could be. But that doesn’t mean every one of isn’t breaking some law, somehow, much of the time.

        • JTW: Consider this scene from the book “Atlas Shrugged.”

          “Did you really think we want those laws observed?” said Dr. Ferris. “We want them to be broken. You’d better get it straight that it’s not a bunch of boy scouts you’re up against… We’re after power and we mean it… There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What’s there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that’s the system, Mr. Reardon, that’s the game, and once you understand it, you’ll be much easier to deal with.”

  2. If it’s got too many loopholes, THROW THE DAMN LAW OUT.

    Go home and think about it REAL hard before you bother trying to introduce any other legislation AND WE’LL BUSY OURSELVES WITH FINDING A REPLACEMENT GUARD FOR OUR SECURITY IN THE MEANTIME.

  3. The authors of this bill see it’s vagueness and loopholes as a feature, not a bug. This is isn’t a poorly written bill at all, if your goal is to ultimately ban all semi-autos.

  4. i think the repubs are just being facetious. i think they are doing this in the light to show they are reasonable but behind closed doors and if it actually made it to vote, they won’t/don’t support it.

  5. I can bump fire a stock rifle or pistol by crooking my finger in the trigger guard, not grabbing the stock/grip with my trigger hand, and pulling forward with my support hand. Have I increased the rate of fire if I add a bump stock? I would assert no, since I was able to fire just as fast without it. Besides ambiguity and illegal taking, the bill seems likely to crumble to a legal challenge (not that I’d want to be the test case).

  6. Republicans themselves don’t care about gun rights, they just pretend to sometimes when they need your vote. Now that the NRA has effectively surrendered to the progressive attack, we’re finished. A bill will be passed into law and signed by covert anti gunner Donald Trump.

  7. Ignoring the bill for a moment and simply going to “motivation” I think it’s important to point out some facts about the districts these folks represent, which I have happily dredged up for you all. It’s not exhaustive because… well this is the interwebz if you want details on every district look them up yourself.

    Dent (PA) 15th District. Yes, it’s an R+4 district but it’s also 87.30% urban.

    King (NY) 2nd District: South Shore Long Island. Nuff said.

    Lance (NJ) 7th District. 90.38% urban and in NJ.

    Meetlan (PA) 7th District. Phili suburbs.

    Royce (CA) 39th District: District includes parts of L.A., Orange County and has gone “blue” eight of the last nine elections.

    Smith (NJ) 4th District: 93% urban and in NJ.

    Paulsen (MN) 3rd District: Suburbs on the Western side of the Twin Cities. 96% Urban.

    Costello (PA) 6th District: 85.78% urban.

    Curbelo (FL) 26th District: D+6

    Ros-Lehtinen (FL) 27th District: South Miami-Dade D+5.

    So we have 9/10ths of these people from the coasts. All represent “urban” areas and some of them have won elections in places where Democrats are pretty heavily favored.

    No mystery why they’re jumping ship. Constituencies considered and all. As such I doubt lighting up their phone lines is going to change much unless those calls come from within their district which, as I think we all know, they won’t.

    I get that people are pissed but this shit is a LONG way off from passing and the pro-gun groups have not yet begun to pressure the other folks in Congress. I still don’t see this bill making it out of Committee, never mind getting to a floor vote and then passing.

  8. There is no doubt that this bill, as written, is dangerous.

    Bills generally get amended at various points in the process. This one will, too. We need to watch very carefully as this sausage is made, and let our Reps. and Senators know how we feel.

    • It’s also very unlikely that it will pass in any form.

      This is what they call “virtue signaling”. Certain members of Congress will get on board, nothing will happen and they’ll be able to go back to their district/state and say “Well we tried suuuuuupppppeeeerrrr hard but [insert boogeyman here] prevented us from getting anything done!”

      In some cases that boogeyman will be the NRA, in others it will be “gridlock” sometimes it will be “the other party” and other times it will be “Well it’s super complicated and hard….”. No matter what they’ll use the term “dysfunctional” with regards to DC and, for the most part, that term will bamboozle voters who will forget this issue in a matter of a few weeks.

  9. The NRA’s response to this situation will hopefully show the rest of America what gun owners in states like CA, NJ, MA, and NY already know: They are nothing more than a lobbying group for large outdoor sports companies. They have a long history of making convenient deals with anti-2A politicians, and what we are seeing here should shock no one.

      • Who, by the way, are exactly no worse (and sadly not really any better) than the group of pimps known as the DemoKKKrats.

    • I could never bring myself to join the NRA. Everytime I thought about it, I reminded myself that there has been no progress fighting the NY SAFE Act, and no fight against the previous AWB that was in place. And now they’re sitting idly by while this legislation gets introduced.

      • No, they are not “sitting by” while this legislation gets passed. The NRA’s position on turning the bunp-stock issue back to the ATF is an adroit move to effectively stall for time. Right now the gun-controllers are counting on claiming a moral imperative to “do something” that is basically driven by collective hysteria. The NRA and the gun-controllers both know that, once the hysteria fades—and it will fade—the pressing “need” for new gun-controls will also fade. If you’ve paid attention to previous gun-control efforts, this is a recurrent pattern. It’s also one that the NRA understands very well.

        The hysteria and emotional demands for immediate gun controls that came after Sandy Hook were much more strident than what’s happening now. And not only that, the gun-control effort also had the backing a a leftest president and a democrat controlled congress. Nonetheless, due to the NRA’s leadership, the efforts to enact more gun-controls were defeated.

        Granted, the NRA’s style is anything but post-modern cool. It’s a black-coffee and straight-whisky kind of place. To it’s credit, it makes no apologies for what it is or how it operates—you can take it or leave it. But when the chips are down, and gun-rights are threatened, the NRA is a devastatingly effective lobbying organization. I’ve said this many times: there is simply no other organization that is as effective as the NRA at protecting our gun-rights. There’s simply nobody else out there that can do what the NRA can do. Like them or not, this is a time to join the NRA.

        • God I hope you are right in your calculus of this. I had had similar thought myself on the NRA intentions and M.O. relative to lobby efforts and slow-rolling knee-jerk legislation. I understand the need for them to appear to cede to some public opinion (even if based on emotional, uninformed, illogical hysteria) in order to maintain effectiveness and alliances for the long run. But the other side doesnt play fair and never has, and giving even a centimeter let alone an inch, risks the whole mile. I will trust the NRA is walking the tightrope as you suggest…But only because I dont have any alternative. I am concerned if they are really doing so. But again, there is no alternative, so I will give them my modest sum of money on the grounds of looking ahead, it can only help, and cannot hurt the cause. Again there is no viable alternative to counter the leftist grabber agenda. Like them or not, the NRA is all we have, I think.

  10. Quite often, firearms owners are their own worst enemies. The duck hunters don’t like the AR-15 “black rifles” so they see no problem if attempts are made to ban them. The traditional rifle owners don’t like machine guns, so they have no problem with them being legislated out of existence. Some pistol owners see nothing wrong with certain long guns being outlawed just as some rifle owners would have no problem seeing pistols banned. Now it’s “bump-fire” stocks.
    Friends, ALL firearms advocates must “hang together” and realize that an assault on ANY means of firearms ownership and self-defense is an assault on ALL forms of firearms ownership and self-defense.
    There is absolutely NO ROOM for complacency among ANY Second Amendment supporters. An attack on one is an attack on ALL…
    ALL firearms laws are unconstitutional on their face. Imagine the hue and cry if “reasonable” restrictions were placed on First Amendment activities, especially with the “mainstream media”. The Second Amendment is clear–what part of “shall not be infringed” do politicians and the media not understand…of course, they understand full well…it’s part of their communist agenda…

  11. “The assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria, heir presumptive to the Austro-Hungarian throne, and his wife Sophie, Duchess of Hohenberg, occurred on 28 June 1914 in Sarajevo when they were mortally wounded by Gavrilo Princip.” (Wikipedia)

    In 1914 ONE MAN by his actions instigated a war that killed tens of millions of people all over the world. This was most likely NOT his original intention, but it was the result.

    Are we perhaps faced today with the unintended consequences of the actions of the Mandalay Madman? Could his insane attack be the catalyst for destruction of the protections afforded by the Second Amendment and thereby a loss of confidence in the U.S. government, our Constitution, our elected officials? Could attempts to outlaw semi-auto firearms lead to civil unrest and bloodshed when armed thugs attempt to collect/confiscate those arms? And what would be the affect on the world-wide political stability if America descends into internal chaos over this issue?

    THIS MUST NOT STAND! This newest attempt at civilian disarmament, because that is ALL this is, must not be allowed to pass and every politician who supports it in any way, any business that supports it in any way, needs to feel the repercussions of Americans who will not stand for this any longer.

    Las Vegas may have been the unintentional trigger event for much larger death and destruction. This proposed legislation could be the igniter. It MUST be opposed by political means before we are forced to oppose it by “…the blood of patriots and tyrants.” And watch the fragile stability of not just America, but the entire world decay.

    North Korea the catalyst for WW III? Not likely. It will be the anti-Constitutional Enemies Within that destroy America and world peace, such as it is, and open the floodgates to war and discord world-wide.

    One man ignites the opposed passions of tyranny versus liberty, whether or not that was his intent, and unless tyranny is stopped in its tracks early and decisively the death toll could be much higher than 58. Much higher.

    This legislation MUST NOT PASS. If despite our best efforts it passes anyway and is not vetoed by Donald Trump then we must see him as the enemy as well. If he vetoes he is guaranteed re-election, IMO. If he does not stop this unconstitutional abomination then it must be fought all the way through the SCOTUS with every resource available and any supposed pro-Second Amendment organization that does not put 100% of their effort behind its defeat needs to be introduced to the view from inside the “dustbin of history”.

    I am not much of a political activist. I rarely get actively involved other than voting for the best candidate I can discern. This has me concerned and riled and I believe it is time we all came off the bench and 100 million gun owners need to make their electoral presence known and their determination not to give up their Second Amendment protected rights a rallying cry above all others.

  12. They want to ban the ability to rapid fire. The only way you can do that is to ban all semi-automatic/self loading firearms. That means you will be left with shotguns and bolt action rifles. You are not going to be carrying a shotgun or bolt action rifle around with you on the daily, thus open and concealed carry is effectively gone too.

    This is why I point out that “bump fire” is a technique not a “device.” You can’t ban techniques/skills, but you can outlaw objects.

    The governments of the world will always try to ban ownership of semi-auto firearms from their citizenry. There is no need to explain as to why that is.

    You could define a “criminal” as someone who: wants to take away your human rights, wants to remove you of your property, wants to imprison you, wants to take your liberty.

  13. Vegas was the event they were waiting for. Watch what happens in the next few weeks and just pray to God DJT doesn’t go along with it.HRC would have issued EOs already and her supreme Court would be standing by to gut the 2a.
    And if another incident happens soon all bets are off. Harvey scum bag has their attention now but that could change in 5 minutes.
    England and Australia used big events to strip ownership.could easily happen here despite the 2a.
    Remember he who has the power makes the rules.

  14. Archduke Franz Ferdinand and his wife were both killed by a .380 caliber pistol bullet
    Who says .380 is not adequate for self defense?
    So far the argument is about bumpfire stocks and not about banning semi auto rifles
    So it seems the strategy is working

    • Is not adequate when the narco traffiquers are carrying full auto Glocks (always illegal but, who cares?) with 33 round magazines.
      Beware the bump stock ban because the next one will be the Glock semi-to auto conversion followed closely by a ban on all semi-auto firearms when they realize that the first ban didn’t worked. “Slippery slope” (and a very steep one) indeed.

  15. I seem to remember a few years back there was this bill circulating around that basically said this is a gun and if you add two or more things from this list of things then it becomes too dangerous to own. I think the year was 1994.

    How is a bump-fire-stock any different than a barrel shroud or bayonet lug? Or shoulder thingy that goes up?

    Even having this argument is agreeing with the anti-gunners that there *is* such a thing as ‘too dangerous a gun’ and all we have to do is decide where that line is.

    Which is a line they will try to move immediately after the next tragedy where some people get shot.

  16. Traitors ,not turn coats, when they swore uphold the constitution. They lied, the got in, they pass laws, they Will defeat America. Scum of the worst sort

  17. Tim is running Full Hot and I don’t blame him.

    I mailed my congressman to oppose the bill by all means necessary. It’s overly broad and irresponsible, threatens the 2nd and 4th amendments, not to mention property rights and threatening those who have done nothing wrong with 5-10 years of prison.

  18. Trade bump stocks for suppressors, knowing that triggers such as the fostech echo, and franklin armory binary triggers now make these bumpfire stocks obsolete. They are far easier to control, and the early versions of the franklin armory trigger could actually go faster than the gun could run. Simply make sure that the bill ONLY bans stocks and not triggers.

  19. “The bill as written leaves those decisions to the ATF — just like the NRA wants!”

    This is disingenuous, at best. The NRA did not want “rate increasing devices” decisions to go to ATF. The NRA said that they wanted the bump fire stocks to go back to the ATF; i.e.: no new legislation. That said, there are so many NRA haters out there that such misinterpretation is understandable.

  20. Sucks that now that everyone’s’ semi-auto firearms are at risk, y’all start getting worried.

    How about for those people convicted (rightly or wrongly) of felonies that have not been allowed to have ANY firearm?

    No sympathy, no support for any of you. You did not support the most in need when it was required. You shall not get any in return.

    Here is to hoping a total ban on all guns is implemented.

    Maybe then we can get this party started properly.

    • You clearly haven’t read much of anything on this site.

      Otherwise, you’d know that a whole lot of us would rather see all of every convict’s right restored upon release (or after some kind of probationary period). No, you’re just another willfully stupid troll just aching for more gun control.

      FOAD, thanks.

      There is no “party” around you, either.

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