Mandalay Bay Shooter Shot Semi-Automatic AR-15s Illegally Converted to Full-Auto

“Las Vegas gunman Stephen Paddock bought more than 30 weapons and had more than a dozen stashed in his hotel room as he carried out the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history,” foxnews.com reports. “The deadly cache included converted, fully automatic AR-15 style assault rifles with high capacity magazines. The weaponry suggests Paddock passed numerous FBI background checks, according to a law enforcement source.”  Paddock had machine guns in two calibers . . .

.308 and .223 caliber. As you might expect, Fox’s description of the two calibers’ relative terminal performance leaves something to be desired . . .

The .223 is known as a typical AR-15 round. It would stop after hitting one adult, and is common in small game hunting.

The .308 is a heavy, long range bullet, meant for big game like elk and black bears. It is capable of penetrating 2 people. It is commonly used in an AR-10 rifle.

This may explain the number of injuries.

Or it may explain the severity of the injuries. Or not much.

In any case, the antis have coalesced around promoting another “assault weapon” ban. As Nick pointed it, a AWB 2.0 is highly unlikely to find legislative traction — on the federal level.

There’s at least one state that never lets a mass shooting go to waste: “Some of the weapons were bought in California.” You have been warned . . .

comments

  1. avatar Chicago Steve says:

    I’ll wait until facts come out, not stuff by unnamed sources.

    1. avatar Matt in FL says:

      Agreed, this is unsourced rumor at best. According to Sheriff Joseph Lombardo in his press conference about an hour ago (1915 ET), agents from the BATF were still inspecting the weapons found in the room, and had released no details beyond that there were 16 firearms in the room, and the calibers ranged “from .308 to .223.”

  2. avatar rc says:

    I starting to think most of the information that has been put out about this guy, so far, is BS.

    1. avatar cmac890 says:

      I’m starting to think this guy did everything by the book to prove a point. I don’t know why he did it, but he obviously want to prove that he could.

      1. avatar BAKES80 says:

        “Illegally converting a firearm” by the book?

        1. avatar Lawbob says:

          HE means purchase everything by the book to display how absurd the laws are/ how ineffective they are as a deterrent.

        2. avatar Jonathan-Houston says:

          Don’t be daft. He’s talking about having done everything by the book….as it pertains to other people’s actions, namely he firearms manufacturers, retailers, the background checks, and so forth.

          Legislation only affects other people and their conduct of business with you, after all, whereas you decide for yourself what you’re going to do as it relates to just yourself.

          The point is that one can abide by all the gun laws that can be placed on society as a whole, but in the end, one murderous monster can still make the modifications he needs to carry out his mayhem. Thus, passing new laws, posting new signs, hiring more bureaucrats, etc. is not a solution. Get it?

        3. avatar cmac890 says:

          Thank you bob and jonathan. But yeah, he even illegally converted a semi-auto to full auto by the book. It functioned as intended and he didnt get caught. Sounds like it worked to me.

    2. avatar TruthTellers says:

      Me too. If these guns were not NFA regulated and had the tax stamp, then these guns could have come from anywhere and were converted. I want it publicly released the serial numbers of all these guns, I want this guys FFL to come forward, I want to know more.

      But, one thing is a fact: this guys father was a bank robber and once one of the FBI’s most wanted.

      1. avatar BAKES80 says:

        So much yes on this.

      2. avatar Geoff PR says:

        “… I want this guys FFL to come forward, I want to know more.”

        Already done.

        Guns mostly locally-bought, through a brick-n-mortar gun store, all I’s dotted and t’s crossed.

        All legit, above board…

        1. avatar PistoleroJesse says:

          Link?

        2. avatar Danny says:

          But if he had a class 3 license weras it is legal to own an fully auto weapon which is an extensive fbi and a psychological check. Right

        3. avatar pwrserge says:

          1. No such thing as a Class III license unless you’re talking a FFL 03 which is a C&R and requires filing out a form.
          2. NFA transfers require a background check, but psych exams would be struck down so fast it would make your head spin.

        4. avatar Don from CT says:

          If you are an 01 (dealer) FFL, you can pay a Special Occupancy Tax (SOT) and that is considered to be a Class 3 SOT. That allows you to deal in items like machine guns and silencers.

          But that is all irrelevant. I’m 90% sure it was a slidefire stock. I’ve spent some time playing with them. You can vary the cyclic rate by adjusting the forward pressure on the handguard.

          If you listen carefully, the rate of fire changes constantly throughout the video. It was either a slidefire or a trigger crank or some other “simulated” but legal means of achieving a high rate of fire.

          The cyclic rate is also slower than any common machine guns.

        5. avatar Chris says:

          The guy had a pilots licence. He had no history of crime or mental illness. Nothing suggested by the gun control movement could have changed this event at all.

      3. avatar Marcus (Aurelius) Payne says:

        He was Joe Strummer?

        1. avatar Owen says:

          Just loved to steal their money.

  3. avatar J-low says:

    im skeptical on this, the fire rate didn’t seem fast enough for a full auto ar. I am assuming the “kit” he used was a military sear set in which case I would guess he used either a M4 sear or m16a1 sear which would yield between 800-950 rounds per min if I recall correctly. that video sounds like 500-650 round per minute fire which would be more in line with a AK series or RPK style weapon. Just my thoughts.

    1. avatar Swarf says:

      Sounded like a damn Gatling gun, more than anything.

      1. avatar Joe R. says:

        ya, weird pace.

    2. avatar Mark N. says:

      What would the cyclic rate of an AR 10 converted to full auto and belt feed be? Because that’s what it sounded like to me. Not that I have much of an opinion–I’ve just seen a few too many “firefights” from the Syrian/Iraqi War Zone (i.e., some guy Rambo-ing a belt fed weapon while standing out in the open at a street corner.)

    3. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      I tried counting the first string of fire: I counted 72 shots which occurred over the course of 10 seconds (and I probably undercounted slightly). That would correspond to 420 rounds per minute. And if I undercounted by about 20 percent, then the first shot string would count for about 500 rounds per minute. That seems low for an AR-15. And, for whatever reason, I want to say that an AR-10 has a slower rate of fire than an AR-15 (because the bolt has to move farther back and forth for the longer 7.62 x 51mm NATO cartridge), but even that would have a higher rate of fire, yes?

      1. avatar JasonM says:

        From what I’ve read, the buffer spring and weight can affect cyclic rate. Maybe he had a heavier (lighter?) buffer.

    4. avatar Anon in CT says:

      I am reading elsewhere that he had those hand-crank devices on a bunch of different rifles and just did New York Reloads. That would explain a lower cyclic rate.

      1. avatar FreakinPeanuts says:

        thats what it sounded like to me also. or a echo style trigger.

    5. avatar Tupa_ says:

      I’m thinking Hk g3, it’s .308(7.62×51) cyclic rate around 500. Also has the potential to be a preban.

    6. avatar Honeycut says:

      In multiple videos I’ve seen you can hear two weapons firing at the same time. He’s definitely not using a standard bump fire system. One is clearly an AR. The other sounds like an RPK or an SKS style rifle. The louder of the two (definitely not the AR) was rough and inconsistent. Almost like it was using a hand crank device. It stops and you can still hear the AR running smooth as butter. Possible two shooters?

      1. avatar Sheepdog6 says:

        It sounds to me like the fire rate wasn’t consistent and the fire rate was on the low end indicating an attachment to make it full auto (hand crank or specialized trigger or bump fire stock).

        The echo off the buildings may make it seem like there are two shooters -OR- there were and they made sure to exfil the room before the cops got there and left the poor saps body to take the blame. Call me skeptical.

        1. avatar Cpt Obvious says:

          Let’s see if I’m still banned for knowing stuff..

          Sound will Never change its character from having simultaneous additional sources. As physics it Cannot enter into a commix, like say Colors do.

          Red and blue Does make Purple. Simultaneous sounds however are All still there, pristine within the formant.

          No amount of ‘echo’ etc will make one manner of weapon ‘sound’ like another manner of weapon.

          This characteristic sound of every different manner of weapon is why you almost Never pick up and use an enemy army’s weapons during firefights, .. your own guys will recognize an enemy firearm in close proximity and lay down fire At You.

        2. avatar Joe R. says:

          simultaneous additional sources are how noise cancellation works, isn’t it? although in opposite phase?

    7. avatar Joe Wright says:

      Slide fire. It easy use and will empty a 30 round magazine in 1.8 seconds . I fired an AR, with one on it and was firing 3 round burst with the first mag.

  4. avatar Austin says:

    In 2003 or 2004 my old man remarked that the hajis were eventually going to out that airports were too difficult of targets to get at and the failure rate was too high, and decide to start shooting up malls and concerts and the grocery stores.

    This guy not only shows what one semi-competent individual can do with a decent plan (and no freakish bad luck along the way), but he also shows the future to anyone who’s contemplating something similar. Any psycho who wants to cause a big sensation is going to take notice of this. 10 minutes of open season is a pretty long time. How many large outdoor events are there in each of the top 100 largest cities in the US per year?

    1. avatar Mr. Woodcock says:

      Very good comment and observations. Make no mistake, ISIS was watching this closely and is taking notes. We need to be vigilant. More attacks will come for sure.

      1. avatar Klaus Von Schmitto says:

        And ISIS will bring 8 guys, not 1.

        1. avatar Shallnot BeInfringed says:

          True, but 5 of them will make a stupid mistake and get caught by LE, on or before the date the event is to take place…

    2. avatar Nanashi says:

      The competency level is something I noted right away. The baseball shooter planned the shooting for a long time, but used iron sights on a 7.62×39 and apparently shot from a standing position even though he was attacking across a flat, empty field. Attacking from an elevated position with a bipod and/or tripod (which means prone or bench) shows he had some idea of what he was doing. If he was trained by Muslims, as the rumors are saying, remains to be seen though.

    3. avatar JasonM says:

      They’ve already been doing this in Europe and Africa. Nairobi 2013? Paris 2015? Nice 2016?

    4. avatar When Bullets Collide says:

      Try 72 minutes.

      Another swatfail

  5. avatar JHR says:

    Will the cost of AR15 s will go up,,, an the HPA is dead now

    1. avatar FreakinPeanuts says:

      I dont think the cost of AR type rifles will go up as there is no risk of gun legislation passing. Also, yes i fear the HPA is absolutely dead.

    2. avatar Real generic says:

      The hpa was still born. Filibuster blocks passage.

  6. avatar Captain O says:

    This is crap. I know that it takes more than you would think to convert an AR-15 to an M-16 configuration. This may have been illegally imported, but it isn’t likely that it was converted. This wingnut was a degenerate gambler.

    I’m glad that he’s dead.

    1. avatar KenW says:

      People working with primitive equipment in third work countries are capable of creating some fairly impressive weaponry. Someone in the states working with a Sherline setup could easily create the parts needed for full auto.
      Heck if I can build a Hit and miss engine from scratch which I did I guess I could too. But won’t as I have no desire to be on the feds radar. My Ar15’s are fine as is.

    2. avatar Anon says:

      It takes a drill press, 5 minutes, and a $3 part you can buy anywhere in America. Most people are deterred not by the difficulty of achieving the task, but rather by the 30 years in federal pound me in the ass prison.

    3. avatar Thomas says:

      M16 BCG and FCG are perfectly legal and cost like $100. A lightning link can be made by hand out of sheet metal. A DIAS can be made with a block of steel and a dremel.

    4. avatar Marcus (Aurelius) Payne says:

      Not an M-16, but you can get full auto by screwing with the disconnect. I don’t think it’s safe for the shooter though. Technically the rifle is broken and malfunctioning.

      1. avatar joetast says:

        I’ve did the disconector trick for shts n grins, but it was unsafe

    5. avatar Excedrine says:

      Most of us are glad that he’s dead, too. The rest of us who aren’t are the leftist trolls that creep on this site, and they actively agitate for the murder of everyone right-of-center on FakeBook, Twatter, and every other social media page.

      BONUS: Oh, and when the offending posts are reported to the aforementioned sites, absolutely nothing at all whatsoever is ever done about it. You see, those posts get to STAY up while anything even remotely like that coming from the other side of the fence is instantly removed — even if it’s not publicly viewable — and the account permanently banned (as it should be).

      But, really, it doesn’t take much to illegally convert an AR-15, AR-10, or even an AK into a machine gun. This guy had the means either to learn to do it himself, or pay someone else to do it for him. It’d be a lot easier to do that, logistically speaking, than to have one imported from abroad.

      And while there is no real “Iron River” of guns flowing into Mexico from the U.S., unless you do something stupid like Operation Fast & Furious or something really stupid like sell guns to the Mexican government, there is the possibility of guns coming into the U.S. from Mexico via mules.

      If you think it’s only drugs and people coming across the border, you suffer from a lack of imagination.

    6. avatar Real generic says:

      Your comment is dishonest or ignorant. It takes drilling one more hole and deepening the “shelf” a small amount. You, gunbroker for the internals, and some YouTube time can take an 80% blank to full select fire illegality in less than a day. The anti gunners do enough “debate by deceit.” we should keep our debate honest.

      1. avatar Don from CT says:

        You are largely right. But its even easier.

        1) no need to use an 80%. Just start with a normal lower.
        2) there are lowers on the market that don’t have a “sear block”. So all that is left is to
        3) buy a M16 lower parts kit. – Legal
        4) buy a drilling jig and a bit and drill a hole in the right place – Illegal unless you are an 07 FFL. That 07 FFL must file a form 2. Either with a $200 check if he’s not a SOT, or without if he has paid the SOT.

    7. avatar Don from CT says:

      The simple fact is that firearms are not terribly complex machines.

  7. avatar Rusty Chains says:

    I am beginning to wonder if this guy really was an ISIS terrorist. The planning and execution of the whole thing sure looks like terrorist operation. Was the girlfriend a Muslim terrorist acting as his guide or influencer.

    1. avatar Jim says:

      Seriously? Everyone knows it was OBAMA and ANTIFA! THEY’RE DOING IT TO KILL THE BABIES!

      /s

      1. avatar Chris says:

        Jim, the plain fact is that 80% to 90% of US gun murder and gun crime occurs in Democrat districts. In Maryland it is 94%, Virginia 88%.

        This could have been anything but it is an outlier event. 100x as many people are killed by released criminal than in mass shootings. In fact shooting muder is in a long and well documented major decline for 25 years. 25 years ago there were about 350,000 “assult rifles” in the USA and murder rates were two and a half times what they are today, when there 35 million or 100x as many.

      2. avatar Jack Gordon says:

        Jim
        You’re neither funny nor clever. Just shut up and go back to your atheist fancies.

  8. avatar tdiinva says:

    This is bad. It gives the antis leverage to get all AR patterned rifles placed under the NFA. The conversions demonstrate that the alterations are uncontrollable and therefore all such rifles must be controlled like machine guns.

    1. avatar FreakinPeanuts says:

      I see your point there. but there are soooooo many AR’s out there it would be very impractical

      1. avatar Cory C says:

        On one hand I agree. On the other hand, who has practicality ever stood in the way of statist feel-goodery “we have to do something” sentiment.

  9. avatar GunDoc says:

    No, the HPA is not dead. Nor is National Reciprocity.

    The SHARE act is an omibus sportsman’s bill. It has nothing to do with this (in spite of herr hitlery’s bloviating blood-dancing verbal diarrhea). If supporters simply wait for the screeching and bloody-shirt waving to die down, it can be passed. In fact, SHOULD be passed. Negotiating with terrorists means the terrorists have won. It would be just desserts to the Leftists if both of these bills were passed in memorium to the innocent victims whose lives were cut short by LEFTIST MURDERERS.

    ARs will not become more expensive. The market is saturated due to the ramp-up from the last pointless panic. All that will transpire is that the Leftists will continue to expose themselves, their motives, and their lack of anything resembling compassion (case in point, the EX-VP of CBS). They are causing rational, heretofore fence-sitting Americans to recoil in horror at their blatant sociopathy.

    Those that are resigned to the HPA and National Reciprocity being lost are far too ready to give up, especially now with all the cards in our hands. Stay the course. Do not let fear (an emotion) rule over your logic or rationality.

      1. avatar Joe R. says:

        Politico is a fake news turd vacuum.

  10. avatar tdiinva says:

    FYI: The 18-20 guns were found in his home, not in the hotel. There is no accurate count of what he had in his hotel.

  11. avatar Mad Max says:

    Wasn’t that guy in Colorado (Mel Bernstein) with all those machine guns recently robbed?

    1. avatar doesky2 says:

      I believe I read that the MG was recovered. I think it was one or two.

  12. avatar HamChuck says:

    AP is saying that “officials familiar with the investigation” are saying that 2 of the rifles found in the hotel room had “bump stock devices” attached to the stocks. I assume they mean bump fire stocks. The staccato of the firing I heard in one of the videos online didn’t sound like a bump fire stock but I suppose that’s a very real possibility.

    1. avatar Rick says:

      Bump fire is definitely a possibility. The fire rate was slower than any AR I’ve fired full auto, but from the few bump fire rifles I’ve played with, the reciprocation of the full mass of the rifle slows the rate way down. Accuracy is awful, but that wouldn’t have been important.

      1. avatar doesky2 says:

        Just for the record, an AR15 with bumpfire can easily run close to full auto speeds at 800 rps.

        1. avatar Zebra Dun says:

          The original AR-15 from Armalite was around 900 to 1000 RPM until it was slowed down so yes it could easily be 800 RPM cyclic, but actuall would probably come to 150 RPM counting mag changes and swapping rifles. how much is that with say a 50 rd slam fire drum mag?

    2. avatar tdiinva says:

      “Officials familiar with … ” is journospeak for “I made stuff up.”

    3. avatar Ed says:

      That was my 1st thought. Sounded slower than full auto.

    4. avatar Honeycutt says:

      I heard two weapons firing at the same. Bump fire stock systems require 2 hands to operate. I’m sure he could possible rig something up. Out at 200 years with a kill count that high sure. But putting rounds on target at 500+ yards yielding that seems hinky to me. Albeit very possible. But acquiring that level of skill wouldn’t have gone unnoticed by someone. I look at it like this. Granted I detest this type of behavior. But figuratively speaking if I were to do something like this… The level of gun nut I am would have come out within a few hours post event. His own relatives only knew him to own a few pistols and maybe 1 long gun. With the way our media is… If he was a big time gun nut like most of us here are. It would have been common knowledge almost immediately. Which leads me to. Believe he was at best a novice. Even from an elevated position what he achieved would require some degree of skill. Like I said I doubt he would have gone unnoticed. At face value the whole thing is tragic and very sad. But the deeper law enforcement and media are digging things just don’t add up to me.

    5. avatar Mercury says:

      A slide stock certainly squares with the highly variable fire rate apparent even in videos with the clearest audio, but we’ve also heard reports that the rifles aimed out the window were mounted on tripods (though it’s still not clear if the ignorant reporters were confusing tripods with bipods). You simply can’t use a slide stock from a supported firing position, because the rifle has to reciprocate in the stock. I think either AP has it completely wrong (or has an agenda) and they’re talking about slide stocks that weren’t actually used (supposedly he also had illegal machine guns, so why would he?), or they’ve mixed up the trigger guard and the stock and they’re actually talking about crankfire triggers.

    6. avatar Southern Cross says:

      I’ll bet the BATF will suddenly “review” the legal position of slide-fire and other bump-fire devices.

      1. avatar Jack Gordon says:

        Absolutely. They will be illegal next month; you can bank on it.

  13. avatar Nanashi says:

    I’ve seen people comment on audio of the shootings that the rate of fire is very inconsistent (which it is from the videos I’ve heard) and that’s a sign of an amateur conversion. No idea if true.

    1. avatar Eric in Oregon says:

      I don’t see why that couldn’t be true. Simply being undergassed reduces the cyclic rate, afaik.

      1. avatar Rick says:

        Listening to the audio, you’ve got tons of echo off all of the hard surfaces, muzzle, SS crack, ricochets, so getting a great idea off of the audio might not be possible. Some seem like longer strings, maybe a PMAG D60, but after the first few strings it seem like normal 30 round mag dumps.

  14. avatar neiowa says:

    Apparently 400yd from the room to the stage (closest point). Rather long for this kind of result with 5.56. My bet is most of the fire was 7.62.

    1. avatar Nanashi says:

      400 yard is perfectly doable with 5.56, even before considering he was prone or bench shooting from an elevated position, used a scope and was attacking area target instead of individual ones.

    2. avatar Rick says:

      400yd is well within the lethal range of 5.56. When you have 22k people in clustered together, its easily within lethal range for almost any caliber, pistol, rifle definitely, 22lr will kill at 400yds. The biggest ballistic issue from his range would be aiming at a specific target from that elevation, but I’ve been to that location, its the size of a couple of football fields, he was unconcerned about point targets.

      SAWs are used for suppression all the time at 600+ meters, which is basically what he was doing. 7.62 would be more effective, but its not like it mattered. AK, AR, SCAR, M14, Marlin 30/30, all plenty deadly.

    3. avatar ozzallos says:

      At full auto into a crowd? I’m not sure he needed the absolute edge on accuracy or power of the 5.56.

    4. avatar RMS1911 says:

      .22 lr is still viable at 400 yards

    5. avatar neiowa says:

      Heck of a kill ratio for a 5.56 with AIMED fire.

      1. avatar DaveL says:

        I suspect some of the dead, certainly some of the injured, are due to stampeding and not direct gunfire hits.

  15. avatar Cadeyrn says:

    It is still early in the investigation and we are dealing with relatively uneducated reporters. “Conversion” may be used imprecisely to indicate that a gat trigger was installed, not that the sear mechanism was altered.

  16. avatar John in TX (Was CT) says:

    ” new AWB is highly unlikely to find legislative traction on the federal level.”

    How do you figure? For better or worse, Pres. Donny’s a populist and has no real principles, as has been pointed out by Ben Shapiro and others time and time again.

    There are enough wishy-washy Republicans in the House and Senate that would join up with the Dems on something like that. Hell, even not-entirely-wishy-washy ones- Remember Manchin-Toomey?

    If Trump can be convinced that a majority of the American public wants SOMETHING, JUST STOP THE BLOODSHED to be done, he’ll sign that bill in a heartbeat- just like with his deal with Schumer and Pelosi over DACA.

    We need to keep an eye on this, nominally-GOP president or not.

    1. avatar TrueBornSonofLiberty says:

      If it didn’t happen after the Scalise shooting, it ain’t happening now.

      1. avatar John in TX (Was CT) says:

        I honestly hope your optimism is warranted- I’m not so sure.

        For one thing, the only person who died during the Scalise shooting was the jackass who perpetrated it.

        For another, this happened about 2.5 miles from one of Trump’s own properties, so he might take it personally.

        I’m not about to place my trust in the Susan Collinses of the world, especially after a tragedy.

    2. avatar Chris says:

      If Trump can be convinced that a majority of the American public wants SOMETHING, JUST STOP THE BLOODSHED to be done, he’ll sign that bill in a heartbeat- just like with his deal with Schumer and Pelosi over DACA.

      US gun murder has been on a sustained plunge for 25 years. It is well over 90% criminals killing criminals. If you are not a criminal you are much safer from homicide risk in the USA than you are in Australia or Canada.

      Pelosi and Schumer advocate lower prison sentences for violent criminals who are the source of over 90% of US murder.

  17. avatar skoon says:

    Maybe a home made lightning link

    1. avatar n64456 says:

      Or a homemade DIAS… doesn’t look too hard to make if you have a welder, bench stock steel, roll pins, a drill press, and a set of calipers. If you’re going out in a blaze of glory, it only needs to work once.

  18. avatar mk10108 says:

    5.56 400 yards, elevated position against 22k people in a mass group….aiming not required.

  19. avatar Ravin' Raven says:

    conspiracy theory: Many movies/tv shows have shown a plot where the dead perp was really a patsy meant to take the blame for an act that was executed by one or more nefarious persons who flee the area undetected. How far would anti-gunners go to empower their agenda?

    1. avatar Jack Gordon says:

      They will go very far indeed. We have to keep an eye on this fellow Paddock’s recent history, viz. videos that seem to be of him and his Asian/Hispanic girlfriend participating in a pro-Crooked p*ssy rally last August. If that was him, then I think we can conclude that these atrocities, like the attempt on Steve Scalise’s life, is the (predictable) result of the enormous left-wing (aka Democrat) hate campaign waged since last November. We need to ask if his brother’s characterization of him (apolitical, no religion, etc.) is, in fact, accurate. After all, in the same interview, the brother says he’s had minimal contact with him since a long time ago. It’s a stretch to think his body was a plant; it’s common sense that, if he supported Clinton, the Democrat hate mongering could have pushed him to do this, thus bringing down the 2nd Amendment with his miserable self.

  20. avatar ^Sammy says:

    They have a body in hotel room with a bunch of guns. The suspect does not, for now, seem the type of profile to do this. >12 guns with ammo and mags along with explosives which were not used? Gotta make you wonder. And I’d like a toxicology report with the autopsy.

    1. avatar RMS1911 says:

      What makes you think you would get the truth?

      1. avatar Ed Schrade says:

        RMS1911…… As for the accuracy and ignorance of the media, they reported that he had a bag of nitrogen sulfide in the trunk of his car and it is used to make bombs with. It is also a common fertilizer. I guess his car is a weapon of mass destruction since the terrorists use them to run over people. Then there is the tannerite found at his home. Give me a break.

  21. avatar Anon in CT says:

    If there was an auto-simulation device (like a bump-fire stock or trigger crank) expect to see those get tossed under the legislative bus. Not good from a precedential point of view, but maybe a sacrifice worth making. Hell, add it to the SHARE Act now.

    1. avatar BlinkyPete says:

      I doubt the sacrifice will be anything gun related. More likely Trump will use it to get his tax plan through.

  22. avatar Libertarian says:

    Oh an criminal not following hughes adment ? *ironie*

  23. The brother in Florida describes him as “not a gun guy,” yet the killer had possession of over 30 firearm?

    Either it is now taking a far larger collection to become a “gun guy,” or this brother didn’t know his sibling – at all.

    1. avatar RMS1911 says:

      Might be a crisis actor.

      1. avatar Rick says:

        Oh good lord. The brother specifically said they didn’t have a close relationship.

        1. avatar Cory C says:

          So, Rick. You’re in on the plot, too, huh?

          But seriously, why is it so hard for people to believe that a single douche bag can do something like this? I happen to enjoy life and don’t wish anyone any ill will. But purely as a thought experiment, I can think of a dozen ways to be even more effective at committing mass murder. Anyone with half a brain can figure out how to do something like this. Hell, plenty of people without half a brain have pulled off more elaborate stuff than this.

  24. avatar BlinkyPete says:

    I’d be stunned if bump fire stocks *were not* ultimately determined to be the tool used. It makes no rational sense for this person, who clearly planned his attack, to go to the trouble of creating unreliably modified weapons with those stocks available.

    You can expect them to be added to NFA if and when this turns out to be the case, too. Even Republicans will struggle to defend them.

    1. avatar RMS1911 says:

      Not really more people are killed by cars every year but they don’t have a problem with them.

      1. avatar BlinkyPete says:

        I’m not sure how that’s relevent. Again, when this news breaks (and it’s starting to), Republicans aren’t going to try to defend them. They’ll be broadly reported as a full auto loophole or something like that. If they don’t get banned or moved to NFA, it will solely be because of typical deadlock in Congress.

        The numbers don’t matter, aside from the thin Republican majority, and the almost non existent number of the ones who will insist that bumpfire stocks must remain legal.

        Don’t mistake my analysis for support, because it’s not. It’s just cold hard reality.

  25. avatar rt66paul says:

    Why do we give a name and a mission to this guy. The reason they do these shootings is to get their name into history. Deny them the right for this and these shootings will stop.

  26. avatar Aaron M. Walker says:

    “Deep State….”
    Target: 2nd amendment. Bumpfire accessories, and crank handles..

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/02/vegas-shooters-weapons-cache-included-devices-enabling-automatic-gunfire-report-says.html

  27. avatar Aaron M. Walker says:

    Deep State….
    Target: The 2nd Amendment to The Bill of Rights. Due process. Innocent till proven guilty in a court of law. Fair trials. Equal rights and protections.
    As, now includes Bump fire stocks , and hand cranks….

  28. avatar Keith says:

    Interestingly the breeches did not report a gun shot just prior to blowing the charges or upon entry into the room. The guy would have no idea exactly when the breech charges were going to blow so he couldn’t have timed his shot to coincide with the explosion plus the breech explosion blows the door inward which means the breech explosion with the noise and pressure wave would stun the guy. So just when did he supposedly shoot himself? Was he still shooting into the crowd at the time of the breach? It supposedly took over an hour for SWAT to locate the room so when did this guy kill himself? Shooting downward from such an elevated position into the crowd takes some shooting skill otherwise the rounds are going long then short before adjusted properly. Do they even know if that occurred? There is something that just doesn’t make sense about this guy being the shooter.

  29. avatar JayHu says:

    Fox is reporting they found two bumpfire stocks in the hotel room

  30. avatar former water walker says:

    I am NOT a tinfoil conspiracy adherent…BUT why in the he!! did they let his asian girlfriend waltz off to…Asia?!? Effed up already beyond belief already😫😫😫😫

    1. avatar joetast says:

      That’s what we were told. I’m still wondering how navy seals didn’t capture Osama, then the burial thing???

    2. avatar Matt in FL says:

      You mean the trip she was already on before the shooting took place? Sigh. You’re not even reaching for conspiracies now. You’re just blurting out random words.

      1. avatar Chris says:

        Matt, I do think the most likely scenario is a nut acting on his own.

        That said the fact that his girlfriend already left does not include or exclude anything. she could have left because he was spiraling into madness and anger and she was a victim of that anger the same way others were; she could have left to see her family; she could have left if she was a gold-digger and and sucked him dry of his finances; and she could have left because she knew something (don’t forget the media was certain omar mateens wife knew nothing, and later she failed found lie detector tests, and did know and in fact was charged as complicit); the press says she has family in Dubai where she has traveled recently. We also do not know her actual birthname.We simply do not know.

        Again the most likely scenario is he is a lone angry mass murderer triggered by crushing gambling debts and perhaps expensive girlfriend. We don’t know anything else for certain either way

  31. avatar JR Pollock says:

    Given the shooter’s reported net worth, I’m speculating that he used something along the lines of the new FN civilian legal SAWs, and put a Gat Crank on it. This guy had a spotless record, as reported, and no doubt easily passed a NICS check. I’m sure the FFL(s) he used were happy to sell a 9,000.00 Title I rifle.

    This clip give a fairly clear recording of the sound without echoes or screaming. It sure sounds like a Gat Crank to me.
    https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/914735456943607808

  32. ok so he passed a background check, so do terrorist. ok he might have gotten all the guns leagally, so what. any one of you reading this can go to your kitchen cabinet under the sink and pull out a lot of ingredients to make a bomb. some form of pvc pipe and aerosol can and you can launch that bomb like a rocket at a crowd of people.mix in some other ingredients and you can make it blow up and spread a poisoness gas into a crowd. and there is no background check for that. background checks do nothing. having the concert in a controlled area with armed security would have done something though, and in this day and age of terrorism having and open air concert where a terrorist could easily attack is not a bright thing to do. nor is having a concert where someone can shoot up the crowd. this was totally a failure to think and a total lack of security.

    1. avatar Mk10108 says:

      B I N G O…Anyone with minimal knowledge of armaments could commit this type of mass murder.

      What Americans don’t understand is the WILL to accomplish what one sets out to do combined with failure of law enforcement to prepare for these type of attacks.

      The solution will always be a “multiple good guys specifically trained with a long guns” positioned to cover the event and capable of returning accurate fire to eliminate the attack.

  33. avatar Glenn says:

    http://www.businessinsider.com/las-vegas-shooting-photos-show-stephen-paddock-guns-2017-10

    If these pics r what they say they r, shows 60(?) round magazine, bump-fire stock, holo sight; the other one has bipod, scope. Others can correct me and/or provide more details.

  34. avatar Mansfield Lovell says:

    My bet is Paddock was on legally prescribed SSRi antidepressant drugs. EVERY mass shooting not perpetrated by filthy mohammefan savages has been by shooters on antidepressants. Lanza in CT, the dude in the Colorado movie theatre, the dude who shot Gabby Gifford’s, the Korean student at VA Tech. Every one of these assholes were on anyidepressants. Shit, even the Columbine kids were on ssri’s.

  35. avatar DerryM says:

    The event in Las Vegas, NV was nightmarishly heinous to be sure, and my sorrow and sympathy for the dead and wounded innocent compatriots weighs heavily on my heart.

    Lots of interesting speculation and comments in this discussion.

    The bottom line here is still that despite all the calls for more gun infringements the indisputable fact remains that 100 million plus Americans own and peaceably use 100’s of millions of firearms everyday without intending or doing harm to any other person(s). Basing this hysteria upon the terrible actions of one person (whose motives we may never know) is calling for a “tyranny of a minority” over a vastly greater majority.

    This common Leftist tactic is the antithesis of any concept of individual freedom and responsibility. I have no illusion that our freedom is not already severely impaired and infringed. Once we surrender the right to keep and bear Arms, we make the final transition to a Nation of Serfs and Slaves. For me, it is the awesome power of owning firearms that keeps me mindful that the violence I could do is never a viable option {except in extreme cases of personal danger}. For me, the fact that I must bear and exercise my Freedoms in a morally driven and consciously, personally responsible life is the underpinning of what I think it means to be a free Human Being and the source of all value in being a free Human Being. No other entity can make me free because I am free, but my freedom is a fragile and challenging component of my existence which I must vigilantly steward, be prepared to fight for every day and never consent to surrender.

  36. avatar John Zeigler says:

    AR does not mean assualt rifle idiot

  37. avatar GetThePuckOffMyIce says:

    He was a patsy for Daesh. They hijacked his room, hog-tied him, shot up the place, shot him, then ran across the hall to an adjacent room.
    They had others shooting from the 4th floor. Why don’t we hear about them?
    And why haven’t any photos surfaced of the plane that crashed into the Pentagon?
    I can always smell a cover-up.

    1. avatar mh46 says:

      Fantasy scenario; the SWAT team was reportedly trying to batter in his door before he killed himself.

  38. avatar Chiefton says:

    The truth is that he did not have any full automatic weapons. He used the very much legal bump stocks that do enhance the ability to fire rapidly but still require an individual pull of the trigger to discharge each round. So many folks here do not know enough about firearms to even speak about it. But they too have a first amendment right to offer their opinion which I respect. Now I only require that you also respect my constitutional right to keep and bear arms uninfringed.

  39. avatar Zebra Dun says:

    I just had a spirited discussion with some fellow who swore the shooter had an M0-60 in .50 caliber belt fed up there in that room.
    I told him there was no such thing, M-60 is 7.62 x 51 mm he said well it was a .50 caliber machine gun.
    Right, a sixty year old man took an M-2 Browning heavy Machine gun and ammo into a hotel/casino unnoticed and unaided to his room set it up and started shooting.
    Dang!
    Old man went full Rambo didn’t he?
    Wait a week then check the news let the spin slow down.

  40. avatar mh46 says:

    Reporters also nattering endlessly over flash suppressors and buffers as if they were options that made the rifle more deadly, instead of being standard equipment on all AR-15-style rifles.

  41. avatar NumberOneD says:

    https://youtu.be/U7DTjSla-O8

    This is what he used.. bump stocks… the barrel will get hot quickly since AR15 is not an assault rifle so he probably had multiple weapons to swap out to prevent that… Luckly, the smoke detectors gave him away so security could quickly locate the room and reduce the amount of time he had to shoot:

    https://youtu.be/8AolqBfdILg?t=3

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/can-a-bump-stock-make-a-ar-15-fire-full-auto-like-a-machine-gun-yes-and-its-relatively-cheap-pretty-easy-and-completely-legal/article/2636432

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