Mandalay Bay Hotel Was a “Gun Free Zone”

The screencap above tells the tale: the hotel from which spree killer Stephen Paddock fired on a crowd of 22 thousand concert-goers was a “gun free zone.” The question of whether or not any hotel staff detected any of the 23 firearms in Mr. Paddock’s room takes on new urgency.And while those calling for civilian disarmament in the wake of this horrific attack will ignore this fact, it’s more evidence, if evidence be needed, that gun control doesn’t work.

comments

  1. avatar Chip Bennett says:

    Hotel rooms are domiciles (temporary, rented residences), and not subject to hotel GFZ policies for their public spaces.

    1. avatar JK says:

      I’m not sure that’s true… You can still have a policy that is a precondition to entering into a rental agreement. Unless there is a NV statute that back that up, you can still enforce rental policies in a temporary domicile.

    2. avatar Mercury says:

      I can find no federal or Nevada state law making that exemption. However, I also couldn’t find a Nevada law granting the hotel’s policy the force of law, so at worst you’d be in breach of contract with the hotel for bringing a weapon in.

      1. avatar Lew says:

        Trespass would be a good start as it violates the hotel policy

        1. avatar JB says:

          That’s incorrect in Nevada but correct in most other states.

          The short answer: Any business can ban firearms, post signs, and make it public that they ban firearms. However, you as a citizen with a CCW permit will not be in violation of the law if you exercise your right to concealed carry in said business banning firearms. The exception is through controlled access, like manned metal detectors at every entrance to said business. You can also legally carry a firearm, in the open, on the strip and in the rest of the state (with very few exceptions and it has been recently challenged in court).

          I like almost every citizen in this country am not of a criminal mindset, obey laws, and exercise prudence in every legal decision I make. That being said, as a firearm owner it is very easy to become a criminal even when your intent is the complete opposite. Simply put, ignorance is never an excuse, even when the laws are constantly changing and (purposely) confusing. What’s legal in Nevada could get you an expensive pair of stainless steel bracelets slapped on your wrist in California.

          For example, as a Concealed Carry Permit holder in Nevada I could walk into a bar (with firearm concealed), have one drink with my buddies and hang out until closing, so long as my BAC does not exceed 1.0. In California, if I plan on entering a bar I have to first return to my vehicle, unload my firearm, place it in a locked box, store the ammunition separately so that the two are not easy to get to (firearm locked in the trunk, ammo in back seat), and leave them in the car while at the bar. Even if I am the designated driver and violently allergic to alcohol, meaning I would never drink, I am still breaking the law by walking into that bar with a concealed firearm, even with a permit in California.

          My credentials: I am a concealed carry permit holder and I take this privilege very seriously. I am currently registered in 2 states (CA & UT), which allows me to carry in Nevada, and I just applied for my 3rd (AZ). I hope to always be the example of what every firearm owner or permit holder should be/do in order to remain safe and responsible. When I bought the firearm I am currently using for concealment I spent 2 weeks doing drills daily. I would take it apart and then put it back together again, over and over again. Then I would try to do it with my eyes closed, something extremely challenging with a SW M&P Shield 40 under California state laws. That freaking yellow hairpin lock that you have to release in order to take it apart is just ridiculous (IMHO) and I’d argue whatever law required that doesn’t make anyone safer, in fact it adds unnecessary deliberate risk and increases the chances of an accident. I’ve never heard a good argument for it, but would love the opportunity to be humbled by one of you if you can tell me how it’s a good idea. Anyway, after two weeks of taking it apart, dry firing, and putting it back together (not in that order) I began practicing loading and unloading the firearm. By the third week I was ready to go, went to the range and because I took the time to get acquainted with my firearm, I did not look like a fool at the shooting range the following week when my firearm jammed with the cheap range ammo. The point is to display how I exercise caution on all fronts with a firearm and so should you. We are talking about no second chances here and room for any errors. I bought my firearm to keep my family safe and for recreation. That being said, you now know I am not just a random person trying to argue or troll you, but rather someone who is just trying to help keep this conversation factual in an effort to keep it constructive. These comment sections do have a way of working themselves into a pissing contest real fast.

          With that spirit in mind. Just how you would never jump into a lake without first learning how to swim. As a CCW permit holder, just like my example in the beginning of this comment, you should never go into another state without first reading up on their laws. Las Vegas is a place I love to visit so in the spirit of caution and prudence I read up on the firearm laws of the State of Nevada. I will even be happy to provide some links for you (upon request) but it is really so simple to research, go to Google, type in Nevada firearm laws and you will find a link the State’s Department of Public Safety, along with tens maybe hundreds of other sites debating and providing education into the Nevada firearm debate.

          You may be surprised to discover that if you can legally buy a firearm in Nevada, it is also perfectly legal to openly carry a firearm on the strip or anywhere else in Nevada, with the exception of the no firearm zones like courthouses, and other federal buildings. That and any other no firearm zone(s) are all listed on the site along with what your rights are as a concealed carry permit holder. Now with that being said let’s move into concealed carry and businesses.

          After hours of reviewing the laws and how they have played out in a few notable cases in Nevada, I have found the following: It is perfectly legal for a business in Nevada to ban firearms. However, this next part may seem unusual to some but please recognize that if you are a law abiding person who exercises prudence and your whole hearted intentions is just to live out your life to the fullest in the safest way possible, then maybe we are united on that front. Some will disagree with me on what I am about to say, so if that is you but you still agree with me on what I just said about safety, at least respectfully hear me out with an open mind. If you still disagree, no problem, just try not to be offended by me and keep your comments constructive because my intentions are safety and the opportunity to remain safe if I am unfortunate enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. That being said, the only lawful way a business in Nevada can ban a firearm is through controlled entry (like manned metal detectors at every public entrance) and I completely agree with it. For example going into a concert they will usually ban firearms and have you walk through a metal detector or a physical pat down in order to enter. If any public entrance is absent of controlled access (like manned metal detectors) in a business where they are prohibiting open or concealed firearms, you are not breaking the law if you are discovered to have a concealed firearm and hold a legally recognized permit for Nevada. The reason I think this is a good idea is because it is not right to turn someone like myself into a criminal over this. I firmly believe in a country that provides the right to arm yourself, the burden should be never be placed on the citizen. For example, after the Aurora theater shooting, I’d feel a lot more comfortable knowing that I can attend a movie, responsibly armed for my protection. However, AMC has a strict no firearm policy and has restricted access, but they don’t need it. If I have a legally recognized permit in the State of California and I somehow miss the small (legally required sign, Google California gun ban sign, it’s so easy to miss) sign and am later found to have a firearm on me, I would be violating the law (trespassing), they could press charges, and I could get an expensive ride to jail.

          As far as I am concerned, I have kept myself clean, never had any issues with violence, and have been fortunate enough to not have any mental issues. I am a responsible adult, have owned a business, am organized, and I pay my bills/taxes on time. If the State of California recognizes my right to be armed, they should not micro manage it to a point that makes it confusing and could turn a good person into a criminal when all of us want the same thing. In a country where the right to bear arms comes before a business’s right to ban said arms, no prudent and/or lawful citizen should ever be allowed to be criminalized over what could very easily be an honest mistake with the best of intentions. Repeated offenders, I may feel differently about. However, when it is that easy to convert an honest citizen into a criminal with an arrest on record, there’s something fundamentally wrong. I would argue that when it’s that easy, it’s the deliberate intention of those who authored the original bill and that is very, very scary. Don’t think so? You may feel differently after touching up on some world history, the history of Germany from the end of WWI to WWII is hard to ignore. The sad thing is this example has played out in history multiple times.

      2. avatar Cliff H says:

        The Gun Free Zone policy and/or signs on the doors have no force of law in Nevada. The most the hotel can do on discovering that you are armed or have firearms in your possession is demand that you leave their premises. Failure to do so in a timely manner will result in assistance from LV Metro and charges of trespass.

        It is NOT illegal to carry either open or concealed in any casino, but it is also NOT a good idea, if you know what I mean.

        1. avatar Leverett Hadlow says:

          It doesn’t matter if the prohibition on “…weapons of any kind.” had the force of law or not. People understood or agreed they weren’t allowed to have guns there, therefore it was a gun-free zone. To be a “gun-free zone” *doesn’t* require that a person simply *not* observing that prohibition (de facto or de jure) is violating a law. So, it was, in effect (de facto) a gun-free zone. Private property that has a no guns policy or an event that has the same policy that takes place in a venue that would otherwise allow firearms is still a gun-free zone.

          Again, it’s only *not* a gun-free zone if you define a GFZ by whether someone armed with a firearm is violating a law.

    3. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      It would be awfully challenging going to and from the hotel room through the public areas without violating their policy.

      1. avatar Accur81 says:

        Concealed means concealed.

    4. avatar Leverett Hadlow says:

      That depends on the state. For example, in the state of New Mexico, guns aren’t allowed in bars, but the law specifically exempts the hotel portion of a property that includes both a bar and a hotel. Do you have a source for your claim?

  2. avatar Anon in CT says:

    How would they? Assuming the rifles are broken down and packed in regular suitcases. There’s no point being dickish about this.

  3. avatar Joe R. says:

    WHERE’S THE FING OUTCRY OVER THE PEOPLE WHO WERE TARGETED?

    Kind of convenient for a dbag from NV to go shooting up a huge crowd of most-likely conservatives.

    John Rich sang “GOD Bless America” 90 minutes before the shooting and the whole crowd joined in.

    Looks like another POS (D) job – just sayin.

    1. avatar ACP_arms says:

      Joe, The comment down below I made was meant for you.

  4. avatar Joe R. says:

    GUN CONTROL (like the support of “Societal Agreement”) is notional, and determined moment-to-moment.

    No one can protect you on an individual level and moment-to-moment basis, AND ANYONE SAYING SO IS PURPOSEFULLY LYING.

  5. avatar Chad says:

    Unfortunately Nevada doesn’t honor my state’s CCW so I traveled empty handed to Mandalay Bay conference for work last month…

    1. avatar JB says:

      Chad, check out USACarry.com, also research where you can take the class in your state for Utah CCW. Go to the department of public safety website for Utah and they should have a list of providers they recognize in your area. I was able to take the class for California, Utah, and Arizona all at the same time. I want to say all I had to do was send them fingerprint cards, a copy of my state DL, a copy of my CCW permit in my home state, completion certificate for the class with firearm inspection/registration, a passport photo, and a fee of $60 (I think). 3 or 4 weeks later I am legal in Utah, which is recognized in Nevada as well.

      There may be an easier way for you, depending on what state you are from. That’s why I started with USACarry.com. You can go on there and take advantage of the CCW Maps which show you which states honor what permit. AZ was a very simple and very easy application. Best part is, if you have to change a firearm for your concealment, they could care less. AZ and NV seem to be two of the least “micro managers” with CCW. I want to say that NV recognizes AZ too, so you may want to look into AZ first. Or you could of course just open carry ;).

  6. avatar neiowa says:

    Likely the reason it took the popo SEVENTY TWO MINUTES to breach is that they were complying with “contact prior to arriving” BS. Or something.

    1. avatar When Bullets Collide says:

      72 minutes.

      That’s another SWAT Fail.

  7. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

    Gun control doesn’t work unless one is a brain dead,leftist,moron.

  8. avatar ACP_arms says:

    “Looks like another POS (D) job – just sayin.”

    From TTAG commenter- Mark Kelly’s Diapered Drooling Ventriloquist’s Dummy.

    “Read & Weep: https://twitter.com/paydirt101/status/915043092088188929

    Shooter was a DEMOCRAT since 1984 when he was in Palm Beach Fl.

    Additionally Kevin Martin (a Black Conservative) working for President Trump’s administration as an advisor reports that the shooter belongs to nearly ALL the same “anti-Trump” Facebook groups as Scalise shooter James Hodgkinson including being OFA/Obama and big Rachel Maddow fan. Scroll down his page to see the post: https://www.facebook.com/kevv.martin?ref=br_rs#

    “The shooter, Stephen Craig Paddock, 64.. a white liberal Democrat, hated President Trump and spoke openly about his political views. They are as follows…

    Political Views per his Facebook page:
    -Proud to Be A Democrat
    -The Rachel Maddow Show​
    -Thank You Obama
    -Anti-Trump Army
    -Progressive Day,
    Organizing for Action (Soros)
    -Not My President
    -Fight Trump
    -Boycott All Things Trump
    -Impeach Trump

    I am sharing, because the media won’t.”

    1. avatar Chip Bennett says:

      Then again:

      Stephen Paddock’s last stop was here, in Mesquite, Nev., a modest desert oasis 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas, where he lived in a retirement community with his female partner and kept a low profile, conversing little and maintaining no Facebook or Twitter accounts.

      In an era when social media invites full-throated expression of even the most minor annoyance, Paddock gave away no hint of whatever it was that drove him to commit mass murder on the Las Vegas Strip, killing 59 people in an assault on a country music festival late Sunday night.

      http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-vegas-shooter-what-we-know-20171002-story.html

      1. avatar ACP_arms says:

        Hmm, be interesting to see if it stays that way or changes.

    2. avatar M Zeier says:

      I thought the shooter cleaned all his social media presence and there was nothing to reference. How can Mr. Martin claim anything on that list?

  9. avatar Jimmy says:

    Can you provide a reference for your posted pic of Mandalay bay rules please?

  10. avatar BobS says:

    That screen capture comes from “POLICIES AND REQUIREMENTS FOR PRIVATE SECURITY COMPANIES”
    https://www.mandalaybay.com/content/dam/MGM/mandalay-bay/meetings/documents/mandalay-bay-meetings-convention-mb-private-security-policies-as-of-10-2012.pdf

    The Events Center and the Concerts On The Beach both prohibit “Weapons, Firearms, Pepper Spray, Pocket Knives or Mace”
    https://www.mandalaybay.com/en/entertainment/mandalay-bay-events-center.html#/PROHIBITED%20ITEMS
    https://www.mandalaybay.com/en/entertainment/concerts-on-the-beach.html

    I can’t find a policy banning firearm possession by guests, whether in rooms or public spaces.

  11. avatar Peter Wolf says:

    Folks need to start looking at hotel web sites for firearm policy. I was at the Post Oak Hilton in Houston a couple of weeks ago and found they were a gun free zone. The only folks allowed to have guns on the property are on duty police and military. Not even off duty or retired police. Time to start voting with our money.

  12. avatar little horn says:

    this is a stupid point to make. he didnt shoot people at the hotel,he shot FROM the hotel at people in public, which im sure WAS a gun free zone as well.

    1. avatar BobS says:

      Gun-free zones are about the gun’s location, not the bullets’ point of impact.

      1. avatar Leighton Cavendish says:

        But if you are shooting into a GFZ…you know there should be little return fire…fish in a barrel scenario

  13. avatar Dug says:

    Curious that authorities and news media are not releasing info from his Facebook Page. What’s on it? What’s not on it? If we all want to know “why” then why is the news media demanding it? Perhaps it does not support the narrative of a right wing gun nut. Just saying…

    1. avatar M Zeier says:

      There is no social media activity for this guy. If he had a page you’d be able to open and read it yourself.

  14. avatar Libertarian says:

    If you can t ban service to minorities then you should not able to ban lawfull gun carries bei private citzizen !!
    Do this should an felony (for disarming employers too) !!

  15. avatar Michael G says:

    Can we have a source for the screen shot?

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