TTAG Daily Digest: Gun Rights Are for Everyone, The Trace’s Gun Cred and Armed Kardashian Security

Nothing freaks out the anti-gun media like more left-leaning gun owners.

Nothing freaks out the anti-gun media like more left-leaning gun owners . . . As far right rises, LGBTQ gun group hits firing line in NY

The former pacifist pumped a shotgun at the firing line.

Lore McSpadden never touched a gun before the Trigger Warning Queer & Trans Gun Club started this past year. Now McSpadden is among the shooters routinely yelling, “Pull!” and blasting at clay pigeons angling over a mowed field near Rochester.

Trigger Warning members are anxious about armed and organized extremists who seem increasingly emboldened. Their response has a touch of symmetry to it: They started a club to teach members how to take up arms.

“It’s a way to assert our strength,” said Jake Allen, 27, who helped form the group. “Often, queer people are thought of as being weak, as being defenseless, and I think in many ways this pushes back against that. And I want white supremacists and neo-Nazis to know that queer people are taking steps necessary to protect themselves.”

The Trace's deputy editor Ben Hallman

A Bloomberg-paid Trace editor on what it takes to cover firearms with credibility…now that’s funny! . . . A gun-focused news outlet on what it takes to cover firearms credibly

In our newsroom, we may describe AR-15s as “semiautomatic rifles,” or sometimes “assault-style” weapons, but never as “assault rifles”—a term that typically refers to weapons with variable modes of fire, including fully automatic.

Reporters also frame stories in ways that make it clear they see gun-owning Americans—roughly 22 percent of people in the US—as distinctly other. A particularly irksome example: first-person accounts, with the reporter as a buyer, of how easy it is to purchasea scary-looking firearm (frequently a semiautomatic rifle) in “minutes” from a gun shop.

As problematic as these errors and practices are, the most pernicious challenge facing any outlet that covers gun violence, including The Trace, is one of emphasis: the blanket coverage of mass shootings, and underreporting on daily gun violence. Even as we cover attacks like those in Orlando and Las Vegas, we do so with the recognition that they are are not a good proxy for understanding the epidemic of gun violence in America.

After Kenyon Ballew was paralyzed, the NRA shifted the gun-control debate

Shifting the terms of the debate . . . When the cops shot this man in a weapons raid, the entire conversation on guns in America changed

What proved even more consequential for United States politics was the way in which this clumsy and near-deadly raid was taken up by gun owners, the National Rifle Association, and concerned members of Congress. The furor came but a few years after the Gun Rights Act of 1968, a bipartisan piece of legislation made possible by a few shared horrors, including the knowledge that Lee Harvey Oswald killed the president with an NRA-promoted, mail-order gun, and that open-carry laws make for frightening displays when demonstrated by black activists.

Members of Congress expressed concern about the precedent set by the raid, which was not only injurious but conducted on questionable grounds, depending almost entirely on informant testimony. “I am thoroughly appalled by this revelation of the reckless, brutal, and inept methods employed by the Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms Division,” said Representative Gilbert Gude, of the Maryland district where the raid took place. “This kind of stormtrooper exercise may have been commendable in Nazi Germany, but it must be made unmistakably clear to the ATFD that it is intolerable here … In my opinion, the manner in which this search was conducted was not only unreasonable, it was high-handed and incredibly stupid, if not criminal.”

These weapons of war have no place in America’s basements and back yards . . . Doctors feared dad’s eyeball would POP out after he was shot in face with a Nerf gun by his son

Steve Haddock smiled to himself as he watching his three young sons squealing in delight.

They were having the time of their lives playing with their latest toy – a Nerf gun loaded with foam bullets – and he decided to join in.

But within moments, a bit of fun in the back garden turned to horror, leaving Steve with a potentially life changing injury and fears his eyeball would pop out of its socket.

He had been shot in the face by one of his sons, but unfortunately the foam bullet had hit him right in the eye – and he suddenly couldn’t see out of it at all.

Kim and Kanye's security guards draw their guns...but they want more gun control laws for you.

Yes, the same Kim Kardashian who thinks you shouldn’t have guns . . . Kim and Kanye’s security draws guns to scare away intruders

We’re told the trespassers were chased off the property of the couple’s Bel Air mansion on Friday morning after one suspect allegedly broke into a staff member’s vehicle at the end of the driveway.

“Their 24/7 security team drew guns on the guy and he ran for his life,” a source close to the situation told Page Six.

A spokesperson for the LAPD confirmed to Page Six that the incident occurred at 5:10 a.m. Friday. One suspect took personal items from the vehicle, but dropped the loot after Kimye’s security “startled” the suspect, another source told us.

What could possibly go wrong?

As reader Frank W. says, “Nothing like getting little Timmy a gun that can go from single shot to fully automatic by flipping a switch, has “clips” that hold 24 shots, and has bunches of modular attachments.” How long before the ATF is asked to make these NFA items, too?

comments

  1. avatar Noishkel says:

    Man I remember when the term ‘queer’ was a horrible insult. Now all these nut job leftist just scream that as a self label as they run around claiming that everyone is a Nazi while weaving the hammer and cycle on their own flag….

    Ahh, the good old days of the 2010

    1. avatar Hank says:

      Yeah I guess it’s like nigga but for gay people now. Typical.

      1. avatar Anon says:

        Or like redneck for southerners. Oh, wait, it’s only okay when we do it.

        1. avatar Hank says:

          Redneck was never really an insult. Kinda like hillbilly. More of a nickname.

        2. avatar Joe R. says:

          More like a calling.

          Funny, first the POS (D) left shits out the activist queer movement, then the left POS (D) head Ohole Hussein imported a shitpile of triggered jihadis who like to kill queers in new, innovative, and exciting ways. Then the triggered queers arm up against . . . who? The rest of us? You gotta be kidding. You’re lumping your only true support In with an enemy that you ignore on purpose.

          F all of you dumb asses.

          YOU ARE THEM. Arm up if you want , and fing practice. Someday you might realize that the only thing holding the world together is that a few Conservatives don’t choose to go anything goes, like you, and yours, and the POS (D) and left of the world.

          If you’re blind to your real enemies, and triggered by us, you’re F’d. Stay the F away, you’re blind side dangerous and you draw heat and fire.

        3. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Joe! Dude! Are the POS (D) no longer evil? What did I miss?

        4. avatar KenW says:

          or cracker.
          Florida and Georgia both have crackers who are proud of the nickname.

      2. avatar ProfessorManque says:

        Whew, that there ezz a treeky won eh, niggras callin each utter niggras and queers callin each utter queers…
        WOW, yall are even dumber than I imagined… I had no idea this idea of appropriating derogatory language to rob it of its power was new to yall, good for you though figuring it out in 2017 : D… and yes redneck is another example of a marginalized group appropriating a slur, as is the Trump acolytes favorite Milo when he terms himself a “dangerous ffaaagggot”… golly what next yall, maybe youll grapple with how black folks ARE racist but not because they call each other niggras or slur white folks, but because black folks internalize white supremacist delusions… another new idea for yall! Take er slow though I know no one here has the vaguest idea what Im talking about, mayby by 2067 yall can get a handle on how this works… yall are some of the dumbest folks on earth, and hey 71% of you yutzs ie white guys who didnt go to college voted for Gump and made us the laughing stock of the world…

        1. avatar Joe R. says:

          Don’t say “us” like you’re us. We don’t want anyone with us, that isn’t “with us”. The POS (D) and lib/left of the world are why we have F’d up shit in the world to discuss daily. Hell, ‘discuss daily’ doesn’t begin to tabulate the refresh rate of POS liberal issues we blog about countering here. F all that.

        2. avatar Hank says:

          Professor dumbass, You assume I’m white. That makes you the racist.

        3. avatar jwm says:

          And here you are, assuring Trump a second term. You must love him so much to put this much of your life into keeping him in office.

          You’re truly clueless unless you’re a hidden Trump supporter.

        4. avatar Klaus Von Schmitto says:

          “….Whew, that there ezz a treeky won eh, niggras callin each utter niggras …”

          I agree Professor. It seems to me like a big step toward ending this ugly racial divide is for people of all races to get on the same page and everyone should call them niggras.

    2. avatar ProfessorManque says:

      Decent folks of course dont claim that “everyone” who adores Chump is a Nazi, but we do point out that white supremacists admire Gump and that Hump understands this and panders to yall for example on the campaign trail only talking about black follks in the role of criminals and after Charlotte by claiming both sides were at fault, and that Chump appreciates that the Nazi-Lite folks in the so-called Alt-Right movement gave him a lot of votes, and the hard core loons in the various actual American Nazi parties have been at all the so-called free speech rallies in Berkeley… so obviously youre not all Nazis nor does any claim that, you are all racists though as you make clear on this thread and on a regular basis, forever pretending racism is unimportant except supposed instances of interpersonal racism against white folks, as if white folks are the ones disadvantaged in every aspect of American life by racism… you see what a buttwipe you sound like!? : D

      1. avatar BigDaveinVT says:

        For the love of Pete, give it a rest will ya?

        What are you a professor of anyway, idiocy and insults? What’s your favorite website so I can go sh1t all over it. Oh wait, THEY don’t allow disparaging comments.

        ‘Tis a pity.

        1. avatar kenneth says:

          It is indeed such a pity that the antis live in such a hollow world that they feel the need to come here to shit all over everything(leaving others to clean up their mess, as always), and yet accuse US of doing what they themselves are so guilty of. All the while completely ignoring that we are not allowed to even bring rational questions to their attention, let alone endless insults like on this page. Their echo chamber must ONLY echo to their same drumbeat, over and over, ad nauseum. And then they wonder why their influence and readership are constantly dwindling.
          And yet they call US insane… What delicious irony.

      2. avatar Joe R. says:

        @ProfessionalMacaque, nazis are socialist triggered facists, that had no greater supporters in the world (then and now) like the POS LIBERAL F’s of the world. Same goes with the pro-slavery, anti-black, KKK. That shit is all you. Blame us if you want, but it won’t cover your stink, and a vast makority know better, and we’re going to raise our great-great grandkids to repeat the story of how F’d up and whiney you are.

        1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

          “ProfessionalMacaque”

          That there is funny!!!!!!

          I am still laughing. Thanks, I needed that!

      3. avatar Hank says:

        You don’t have a clue what your talking about, because you’re liberal, and you claim to know “about black people.” Like because you’re a liberal your just automatically in tune with racial injustice. You’re not. It just makes you look even more stupid.

      4. avatar Klaus Von Schmitto says:

        Professor you seem upset. Swimming is very relaxing. You should try it.

        1. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Wear some weights!

        2. avatar BigDaveinVT says:

          Neck weights.

  2. avatar jwm says:

    22% of the people in the US are gun owners? I see the trace believes in telling the big lie and then tell it often.

    If it wasn’t for lies the fascists anti gun nuts wouldn’t have anything. I’d bet a months income that there are more than 22% of folks owning guns here in the liberal bay area.

    But I’d never get an honest number from the fascist left, so no bets.

    Also. Every home in America should have at least a shotgun. That’s common sense gun law.

    1. avatar DrewR says:

      It is at least one third of American adults who are firearms owners. The antis include children who can’t own Guns to skew the numbers. It is openly dishonest and reprehensible.

      1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

        DrewR,

        I think your assertion that one-third of adults own firearms is probably pretty darned accurate.

        And, when you factor in children, the number could easily drop to 22%.

        Excellent hypothesis and analysis.

      2. avatar Nigel the expat says:

        Given a poll that asked if you would truthfully answer the “Do you have a gun in the house?” question showed that 36% of respondents would tell them to go pound sand, the number is likely higher and throws off the GSS poll that Progs love to use to show declining gun ownership.

        http s://w ww. ammoland. com/2015/11/why-record-guns-sales-are-not-showing-in-national-gun-ownership-polls/

    2. avatar John in TX (Was CT) says:

      I doubt it. Connecticut has historically been more permissive than California, and my best guess would be something on the order of about 6-7% legal gun owners.

      That’s not to say that the 22% number isn’t an obvious understatement, though, so your main point survives.

    3. avatar kenneth says:

      Here in Montana it’s more like 99%. There must be ONE person somewhere without a gun, but I don’t know where he might be. He’s kind of like nessie, heard of a lot, but seldom seem, and no evidence that he actually exists…

      1. avatar ORCON says:

        Hell Kenneth, I’m hard pressed to think of anybody here in Montana that only has one gun let alone no guns.

  3. avatar ORCON says:

    Whyyyyyyyyyyy?! Why are you holding it like that?! Your sexual orientation is no excuse for poor form and fundamentals.

    1. avatar Hank says:

      Right. He’s about to learn all about it when he pulls the trigger.

      1. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

        How can you be so sure it’s a he?

        Since there’s like 92 genders now…

        1. avatar kenneth says:

          He’s a Shklee….

    2. avatar Blake says:

      Don’t assume their gender! Lol

      I’m guessing whatever is watching him so intently (it’s not here to tell me what pronoun to use), is either trying to learn or knows what’s about to happen.

      Thank god they’re learning though, what with the epidemic of nazi attacks and all

  4. avatar AlanInFL says:

    Only 22%? Ok, how do we sell to the other 78%?

    Just paraphrasing Lord Of War.

  5. avatar Pat says:

    Trannies….is there anything they can’t do?

    1. avatar Ironhead says:

      Mine doesnt shift properly.

      1. avatar joetast says:

        Ahhahaha , spittin coffee, that was funny

    2. avatar anonymoose says:

      Give birth? The ones that started out with male genitalia still can’t, at least.

  6. avatar Joseph Constable says:

    I purposely don’t use a proxy server so that TTABG gets advertising revenue. I am going back to using a proxy server because of videos that run without my permission using up my precious data plan in a rural area where I cannot get wifi.

    1. avatar Frank in VA says:

      You could also just turn off autoplay in your browser settings.

    2. avatar Mark Lee says:

      … or use AdBlock

  7. avatar California Richard says:

    “Gun Rights Act of 1968”?!?!? WTF?!?!?

    1. avatar jwm says:

      If they didn’t have lies, they’d have nothing. cisco kid. unamerican fascist gun hater, or whatever the fuck his name is. 2asux.

      Liars one and all. When Trump is re-elected and oppoints more Common Sense scotus judges these guys will be lying and crying.

      And they will have helped defeat the left.

      1. avatar Hank says:

        I honestly think a few of the local trolls are dead or something. Only ones I’ve seen lately are crisco kid and that unamerican uneducated fascist gun hater dude.

        1. avatar Klaus Von Schmitto says:

          Yea but now we have ProfessorWhiteyMustDie.

        2. avatar uncommon_sense says:

          You missed Joe R.’s fantastic label for Professor Manque: Professional Macaque!!!!!

  8. avatar DaveL says:

    They started a club to teach members how to take up arms.

    Quite right. Now help your buddy out and tell hir to get hir weight forward, before ze goes toppling over backwards.

  9. avatar former water walker says:

    Gee Queer dude where’s your evidence the Nazi’s and KKK are coming for you?!? And a pump shotgun? Is an evil black rifle or a handgun too much? Not that shotguns are bad-I have one. And us gun guys are cool with having guns…bizarre BS.

    1. avatar jwm says:

      First hit probability with a handgun is something like 5%. With a rifle it’s about 50%. With a shotgun it’s 95%.

      A rifle or handgun are weapons that require more practice and more precision to get good with them. A shotgun, once you learn the action and recoil management is good to go.

      We mostly live in urban environments, us citizens. The shotgun is good in that environment.

      1. avatar barnbwt says:

        …or a shotgun just has the longest sight radius of all those options (which is both good and bad for various reasons). It’s also big & bulky, unlikely to be rapidly pulled from a drawer or the pants & pointed at an immediate threat, more likely to be deployed with some degree of warning, also less likely to be used in a mobile way, but instead statically ‘pointed at the bedroom door’ as the cliche goes.

        1. avatar jwm says:

          Every system has it’s drawbacks.

          But if you had to take a newb with no experience and show them in one quick session how to defend themselves with a firearm which would you teach them on? Even the butt simple revolver takes some skill to line the sights up and trigger control.

          But an absolute newb with just a few minutes teaching can manage the manual of arms with a shotgun. And to defend themselves at house ranges even a .410 will work.

          For the ones that wish to put in the effort and time to really learn, then yes. Glock 19s and ARs all around.

        2. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

          I have to back jwm on this one, a shotg un is a good place for a total novice to start. Once mastered though, I’d advise one to move on. The good ole’ 12ga is pretty nifty at just the right range. Too close and there’s no real advantage over a ri fle and too far away even a handgun has an advantage over it.

        3. avatar BLoving says:

          There’s also a bit of psychology involved:
          A shotgun is simple, straightforward, and not at all intimidating in appearance. So a noob will feel comfortable learning one. Remember- the first objective is to instill confidence and show that guns are fun… can anyone else think of a more entertaining lesson to teach that than to blow rapidly moving targets to smithereens? 🤠

        4. avatar Snatchums says:

          BLoving: “A shotgun is simple, straightforward, and not at all intimidating in appearance.”

          That entirely depends on which end you’re looking at! I think the business end of a 12ga is quite intimidating.

        5. avatar uncommon_sense says:

          Snatchums wins the Intertubez today!

      2. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

        ‘First hit probability with a handgun is something like 5%. With a rif le it’s about 50%. With a shot g un it’s 95%.’

        Most DGUs happen at ranges well under 100 yards and for those that don’t, even buck shot pellets mostly bounce harmlessly off the assailant.

        1. avatar jwm says:

          In the last ten years how many citizen dgu’s, or cops for that matter, have involved ranges past 50 yards?

          I’ll bet legit 100 yard dgu’s can be counted on the fingers of one hand for that same decade.

          PS. I believe I misread your comment completely. My bad.

        2. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

          I still carry a scoped rifle in my truck. Never know when you’ll be invited to an Aloha Snackbar.

          Anyway, my point was this; I once established that 25 yards was as far out as I could put all 41 #4buck pellets on a full size silhouette with my 12ga. (22″, IC). At 15′ even 8 shot will hit in a 2″ pattern. So the only way those numbers could be accurate (5%, 50%, 95%) is if the target is so far away that the shot g un would be practically useless unless loaded with slugs.

        3. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

          ‘PS. I believe I misread your comment completely. My bad.’

          Yea, I probably shouldn’t be as snarky, but that’s what they invented the internet for.

          That and porn…

      3. avatar joetast says:

        Shotgun rules, what’s s meme? I’ve had Glocks pointed by cops, rifles pointed by mad guys, and shotgun pointed by cops, you can crawl down a shotguns barrel and hide I tell yah,fcker looked like one of them guns on a navy boat

        1. avatar former water walker says:

          Golly. I started something. You can’t hide a shotfun in your pocket. Those happy boyz(???) are holding their boomsticks like sissies😋😋😋😋

  10. avatar Dug says:

    2016 PEW research states that 42% of US households have a firearm. I know that is a low figure because at work I know 20 individuals that would deny they owned a firearm!

    1. avatar Nigel the expat says:

      A poll in late 21015 asked if folks would truthfully answer a random pollster’s question of “Do you have a gun in the house?”. The response was that 36% of respondents would tell them to go pound sand.

      This in turn throws the GSS poll that Progs love to use to show declining gun ownership.

      http s://w ww. ammoland. com/2015/11/why-record-guns-sales-are-not-showing-in-national-gun-ownership-polls/

  11. avatar jwtaylor says:

    I am confused. The Trace tells me America is awash with guns. The Trace tells me only a small fringe group of Americans have guns. Which is it? Maybe I am not confused. Maybe I am being mislead.

    1. avatar strych9 says:

      America is awash in firearms but they’re all held by the same 5% of folks who are racist, bigoted, anti-gay, xenophobic, anti-science climate change deniers that want to murder everyone who isn’t white. You know, the one’s who colluded with Russia to make it seem like 5% was actually like half the country.

      And yes, you read that right. Every single shooting is perpetrated by such people. Including in Chicago. The notion that Chicago is rife with “gang violence” is a “false flag” operation to encourage Right-Wing racism against innocent people of color!

      Oh, and Fox News!

    2. avatar Geoff PR says:

      “The Trace tells me only a small fringe group of Americans have guns.”

      “The Trace tells me only a small fringe group of Americans have guns.”

      Trust me, not for long.

      Geeze, did you watch that last video?

      A select-fire NERF gun that fires semi-auto, three-round burst, or full-auto.

      After Christmas this year, every kid is gonna want to buy a real select-fire weapon when they grow up.

      I hereby nominate the NERF corporation for ‘Gun Rights Hero of the Year’, for inspiring today’s youth to be tomorrow’s ‘People of the Gun’… 🙂

      (Someone really to tell NERF to put out a Bump-Fire NERF for next year, or ‘Ma Deuce’ NERF. Dillon Aero NERF may be a bit too expensive for the time being.)

      1. avatar Snatchums says:

        I want that select fire nerf gun. Back in my day we only had single shot muzzle loading nerf guns!

  12. avatar strych9 says:

    “Trigger Warning members are anxious about armed and organized extremists who seem increasingly emboldened.”

    Where does this bullshit come from? A few NeoNazi assholes show up in one town and suddenly “organized extremists” are coming out of the woodwork for a grand ol’ festival of gaybashing, cross burning and goosestepping? Yeah, methinks not.

    These days everyone to the Right of The Red Army Faction is a Nazi, extremist, bigot and xenophobe just looking to bash the everliving fuck out of some brown people and/or LGBTQ folks and the media doesn’t just allow that narrative to have traction they go out of their way to amplify it with their choice of words and the editorials they run.

    I’d wager a hefty sum that more queer folks got killed/wounded in Orlando than have been killed/wounded by all “far right extremist” attacks on queer folks combined in the last five years and that attack, my friends, was not committed by a NeoNazi.

    I’m getting pretty tired of it and I suspect that a lot of other people are too.

    1. avatar Philthegardner says:

      I’ve loooong been pretty tired of being labeled a racist redneck because of my NRA sticker. And I’m not even white.

      1. avatar Klaus Von Schmitto says:

        Phil I hate to tell you this but in the hoplophobic fascist lefts view, that sticker makes you not (black, brown, whatever) enough. That makes you white in their book.

        Welcome to the white folks Phil! Glad to have you.

        1. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

          Be sure to take advantage of the white privilege.

    2. avatar Mark N. says:

      Look at it this way: 1) they are liberals/democrats/progressives; 2) they own guns; and 3) they shoot guns for self defense. How long before they lean on the Party to stop trying to make it so damn difficult to buy and carry firearms? This could turn out to be a good thing. (SEE: Pink Pistols.)

      1. avatar Raoul Duke says:

        They are not buying guns to embrace the 2nd Amendment they are buying them to use against us.

        They want gun control more than anything and relish the day for their wet dream of disarming us is possible so they can gladly turn theirs in.

        These socialist, Marxist-Leninists (commies) are pro-government, pro-gun control but are pragmatically arming up against us.

        1. avatar Klaus Von Schmitto says:

          “…their wet dream of disarming us is possible so they can gladly turn theirs in.”

          “…their wet dream of disarming us is possible so they can gladly turn theirs on us.”

          FIFY.

    3. avatar Southern Cross says:

      I keep hearing references to November 4. Ironically I first heard about it on this site. Hardly a secret uprising.

      Most of the antifa types would soil themselves if they met a real Nazi.

      1. avatar Bob999 says:

        They have. Being a WWII history buff, I can say that the closest thing we have to real National-Socialist in this day and age is Antifa. The tactics Antifa uses and the politics of hate they perpetrate is identical to the Nazis in the late 1920s and early 1930s. (For the leftist trolls, if you don’t believe it, pick up a real history book on the subject.)

    4. avatar Sprocket says:

      Right? A few basement dwellers march around a statue with tiki torches and suddenly it’s the 4th reich?! What a bunch of hysterical idiots.

      1. avatar Klaus Von Schmitto says:

        That sounds like Burning Man.

  13. avatar John Davies says:

    I love that Automatic Revolver Flashlight thing. “What would probably go wrong?”….. Fixed it for you.

  14. avatar FedUp says:

    How many others thought they were still reading the LGBT article when they saw the picture of Ben Hallman?

  15. avatar joetast says:

    Not quite there yet, keep trying, hint hint, to many personal questions

  16. avatar Rick the Bear says:

    Drew guns on an auto B&E??? Oh so brave.

    Ya think that a peon who reacted that way to a similar event in her driveway wouldn’t be arrested for brandishing or ADW?

  17. avatar Johnny108 says:

    Yes, Shotguns are often the preferred “intro” weapon for people new to shooting.
    The problem lies with letting the LGBTQABCDEFGHIJKLMNOP…etc…..Community stop with those weapons
    is simple:
    It plays into the hands of gun control advocates.
    Name the ONE firearm that is ALWAYS last to be banned by totalitarian governments? Shotgun.
    Name the ONE firearm that is PERMITTED by totalitarian governments? Shotgun.
    Why?
    A shotgun is fairly useless after 100 yards (Average shooter- not some hotshot with a racegun-type custom
    job). Police and military are armed with weapons good out to 300 yards+.
    Rack your slide to defend your property- they pull back, set up a perimeter, and a designated marksman ends you.
    That is not good.
    We need to get the “”Alternate Lifestyle” communities to get on board with a Black Rifle ASAP!

    1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      Johnny108,

      Excellent and accurate commentary!

      I would argue that a shotgun with a non-rifled barrel is pretty much useless against a committed enemy beyond a mere 70 yards where:
      (1) Birdshot has no significant energy
      (2) Buckshot velocity is about 800 fps
      (3) Slugs are still lethal although terribly inaccurate

      And note that the pattern for shot at 70 yards would likely be at least 8 feet in diameter for most shotguns/loads.

      Again, my comment was for the average person with an average shotgun and average loads. Sure, there are a few people who have exotic chokes and loads and can shoot much tighter patterns with much higher velocities at 70 yards. And yes there are a few people who can reliably hit a man-sized target at 70 yards with a foster slug out of a non-rifled barrel. And they are the exception.

      1. avatar Big Bill says:

        I don’t know what type of slug/gun you’re using, but with normal foster-type slugs at 100 yards, I can hit a torso-size target 4 out of 5 shots with either my 500 (bead sight) or my 590A1 (ghost ring sight) (both 20″ bbls) offhand.
        That’s hardly “terribly inaccurate.”
        Of course, it takes practice. And a willingness to absorb the recoil over the practice sessions.
        And, IMO, anyone who considers birdshot for defense is not thinking things through at all.
        I am also of the opinion that, barring some sort of EOTWAWKI scenario, seeing a need to fire defensively at 100 yards is pure fantasy.
        Of course, I’m not saying don’t buy and practice with a carbine.

        1. avatar kenneth says:

          I keep my home defense shot gun loaded with alternating birdshot, slug, and buckshot. And I’ve thought it through a lot! See if you can follow the idea; a shotgun is a CQB weapon, so the birdshot is for unarmored targets at extremely close range, where the shot will hit as one solid mass, expending all of its energy at once. This means over penetration is not an issue. IF the target happens to be armored, then a slug is the follow up shot. The buckshot is there just for holding a perp, or for area fire while I grab the backup rifle.
          You follow?

    2. avatar johnny108 says:

      You have all proven my point.
      Where is your 300 meter shotgun competition?
      You don’t have one.
      Why?
      It doesn’t work that far out.
      You NEED a centerfire, semiautomatic weapon capable of at LEAST 1.5MOA, while lubricated with diesel, or motor oil,
      or, you get to join the ranks of regretful people:
      “I gave up my rights, so they would leave me alone”- We MUST tell these people that they would be wearing a pink triangle, and they would be in the camps- if they don’t have a black rifle to fight back with.
      I would fight at their side.
      I believe in The Constitution.

  18. avatar Sal Chichon says:

    I don’t believe it is correct to teach lefties about firearms. They support – no – are a part of a political movement that actively, enthusiastically, and relentlessly tries to strip us of our right to self-protection with firearms. Now that Trump is in office… now they want to learn about firearms. Now, because they pissed off (read: assulted in the streets) so many people now they want to learn about guns? Fuck. Them. It is hypocrisy in the highest order.

  19. avatar Jonathan-Houston says:

    The LGBT mafia is afraid of the mythical, so-called, far right? Proving once again that liberalism is a mental disorder typified by a victim mentality obsessed with every enemy imaginable, most of them imaginary.

    Now, what is not imaginary, what is very real, and rarely discussed, is the matter of domestic violence in the homosexual subculture.

    Lesbians experience domestic violence at the hands of an intimate partner at nearly double the rate of that of straight women.

    Gays experience domestic violence at the hands of an intimate partner at about triple the rate of that of straight men.

    It’s great that these special little snowflakes are tooling up. However, by far the greatest danger they face comes not from some hypothetical skinhead hiding behind a corner. It’s from your own fellow homosexual with whom you share a bed.

  20. avatar MyName says:

    What a maroon the trace writer is. He is supposedly writing about credibility in reporting on firearms and then uses the phrase “gun violence epidemic in America”

    How does one define epidemic? What fraction of a population does something have to impact for it to be an epidemic? Is it 10%?, 5%, less? The flu epidemic of 1918 infected about 20% of the worlds population and killed on the order of 5%.

    In the US, about 10-11,000 people die of a non self-inflicted gunshot wound, about 20-22,000 commit suicide with a firearm and about 70-74,000 are non-fatally injured by a bullet each year. Hmm, those numbers total up to around 107,000.

    That is a tick over 3/100ths of one percent of the population of the U.S. 0.032%. How is that an epidemic?

    So much for ‘credibility’.

    If the “gun violence epidemic” was just half as deadly as the 1918 flu epidemic, we would expect to see on the order of 8,000,000 deaths from gunshots annually.

    Apparently, the antis don’t do ‘order of magnitude’.

    Seriously, dude at the Trace, gunshot wounds, including suicide, only account for 1.3% of the deaths each year in the U.S. Gun violence isn’t even much of an epidemic among those that die. Put another way: If you die in the coming year, there is a 98.7% probability that it will NOT be due to a gunshot wound.

  21. avatar Jim Bullock says:

    Gay gun owners – #shootback is a fine way to discourage knuckleheads. Citizens’ guns have been tools of the disenfranchises forever.

    In my ideal world, the out gay couple next door leaves a shotgun in the closet on their way to a good-natured caliber wars argument at the coffee shop with their hetero, christian friends. Their “unions” are licensed only if they want that, their guns are not, and it’s up to them what they prefer in either.

    1. avatar Jonathan-Houston says:

      I detest being forced to license my guns as much as I do being forced to recognize a same sex marriage license. Both infringe on my freedom. Go get married in whatever ceremony you like; no one is stopping you. Just don’t demand, by way of government force, that I recognize it.

      1. avatar Kissalude says:

        @Johnathan-Houston

        The fuck are you on about? How the hell does my right to marry another woman infringe on freedom any more than a heterosexual marriage? You can say that leaves are not part of plants, or that you do not recognize the earth is spherical, but facts are facts. If a gay couple are married, then they are whether you believe it or not. And if it is in one of those situations where discrimination is illegal (cross state commerce/federal situations) then gay people deserve the same protection as everyone else. I would say the same if it was a homosexual discriminating against someone else. People said the same thing about interracial marriage. Me marrying a white person would long ago be considered them performing bestiality by a good chunk of people. I personally think that any non federal/tax supported organization should be able to decline service to whoever they want.

        This is why getting gun friendly candidates elected is so tough and why so many sjw’s froth at the mouth. because of years of bullshit like this. I have owned and love firearms (non-biblically). But if I vote pro-gun, I risk losing my rights as a gay woman and as an atheist. I cannot just hope for a candidate who will protect all rights, i have to either choose theocracy with a possibility of keeping firearms, or pc thought police moochers. You cannot get the hysterical sjw’s to calm the fuck down by being the actual boogie man they use to recruit new members.

        1. avatar Sal Chichon says:

          I am an atheist as well, though center right leaning, and I whole-heartedly agree with you. Pro-gun should not automatically mean pro-religious (and all the bullshit that entails) at all. Some people don’t like men getting married to men, and women getting married to women. Okay homosexuality is not my cup-o-joe either, but to say two people I don’t know getting married infringes on my freedoms..?! Get the fuck outta here! That’s no different than the anti-gunner retards saying my gun infringes on somebody else’s freedoms, and we all know that’s bullshit. What part of Equal. Protection. Under. The Law. don’t some people understand?

        2. avatar johnny108 says:

          Sal Chichon: Well said!
          I am pro-2A, so people tend to assume I am a Racist, Christian, Caucasian male, who thinks abortion and gay rights are a bad thing. (Not racist- that ignores science- I’m a bigot- there’s a difference!)
          I’m not that hypocritical: I believe in the Constitution, and that means I believe in it for EVERY citizen (non-citizens can fuck off- bigot, remember?)
          I used to toe-the-line-gays-aren’t-equal, until I saw something: A lesbian couple who had been living together for 40+ years. One of them got ovarian cancer. She was calling out her lover’s name, as she was dying from organ failure.
          Her partner/lover was outside her room, being restrained by the cops, because she wasn’t family, she wasn’t allowed in the room. She wanted to hold her partners hand as she slipped away. Someone was dying, and all they wanted was to be comforted by their lover- but hospital administration, due to the law, wouldn’t allow it.
          She died, wondering where her partner of 40+ years was. Her partner was in an arm-lock by a cop, because the government didn’t recognize their relationship, listening to her lover call to her, as she died.
          We all support the Second Amendment. But that means we must support ALL of them!

          Ever been told you support dead kids because of your views on the Second Amendment?
          Here is the counter argument I use:
          Do you support free speech?
          Yes.
          So you want children to die.
          What?
          If we got rid of the 1st Amendment (obsolete in the Internet Age- the old “it was written for muskets, not AR-15’s! argument), hundreds of lives could be saved, because children wouldn’t be bullied into suicide. (actions of few, representing the whole).

          Equal. Protection. Under. The Law.
          Such a beautiful phrase, don’t you think?
          But the same writing that guarantees our guns, also guarantees THEIR guns.
          Or, are you a hypocrite who wants to disarm a certain group? They don’t think like you, so they should be disarmed? Kinda like the leftists you hate, kinda like how they think of you?
          Sorry if I made you think.
          Go have a cookie. If you were thinking, you earned it.

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