TTAG Daily Digest: A Divide in Virginia, Standing Up for Slide Fire and Carrying Everywhere

Virginia gubernatorial candidate Ed Gillespie.

You don’t say . . . Candidates sharply disagree on guns in Virginia gov’s race

The two major party candidates in Virginia’s race for governor sharply disagree when it comes to guns.

Republican Ed Gillespie has an A rating from the National Rifle Association. He pledged to “oppose any and all attempts to weaken the Second Amendment.”

Democrat Ralph Northam said he favors stricter controls on gun ownership. He’s backed by former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s group as well as by former Democratic Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, who was grievously wounded in a 2011 shooting.

The positions play against type. Northam grew up hunting on Virginia’s Eastern Shore and owns two shotguns.

Bump stock maker Slide Fire Solutions of Moran, Texas

Demonizing a producer of a legal product . . . Home of the ‘Bump Stock’ Says, Don’t Blame Us for Las Vegas

“It’s being used as a scapegoat — they’re looking for somebody to blame,” said Lanham Martin, a Shackelford County commissioner who lives in Moran. “Guns don’t kill people. Slide Fire stocks don’t kill people.” He added, “It could have been just as lethal, if not more so, with a good scope.”

Steven Taggart, the mayor, took a break from cooking curly fries for the homecoming football game to lament the tragedy in Las Vegas and the negative attention it has brought to his town.

“Everyone out there thinks we’re killers, and that’s very far from the truth,” Mr. Taggart said. “They’re trying to tear us down, and saying that we’re evil. That is heartbreaking. That’s what tears me up, that they think we’re bad people.”

NorCal Kydex Mendocino Modular OWB/IWB holster

Come on, people…let’s see if we can double that by 2020 . . . America is packing: Research estimates 3 million adult gun owners carry their guns every day

In addition to the 3 million who carried a gun every day, another 6 million people carried a gun at least once a month, researchers estimated.

The study was the first in more than 20 years to look at why, how often, and in what way adults carry loaded handguns, the university said.

Researchers reviewed the handgun-carrying behavior of 1,444 gun owners, using data from a 2015 nationally representative survey designed by Mathew Miller of Northeastern and Deborah Azrael of Harvard. The University of Colorado also participated in the research.

The research also found that 9 million people carry a loaded gun on a monthly basis.

“It was important to study handgun carrying because about 90 percent of all firearm homicides and nonfatal firearm crimes for which the type of firearm is known are committed with a handgun,” Rowhani-Rahbar said.

Brits considering banning .50 cals and lever guns . . . Home Secretary to consult on new laws on offensive weapons

Other measures included in the consultation include:

– amendments to threatening with a knife or offensive weapon offence to lower the standard of proof for prosecutors
– moving two firearms (.50 calibre and certain rapid firing rifles) from the general licensing arrangements to the stricter provisions of section 5 of the Firearms Act 1968
– updating the current legislation on the definition of flick knives

Why do we suspect that it was his mother who composed the list of questions? . . . A Cub Scout pressed a lawmaker about gun control. Then his den kicked him out, his mother said.

Ames pressed the Republican state senator, Vicki Marble, on an issue he knew was important to her: gun legislation. The Cub Scout in Broomfield, about 20 miles north of Denver, asked her a slew of questions about previous bills she had sponsored in support of the right to bear arms, and he wasn’t shy about inserting his opinion.

“I was shocked that you co-sponsored a bill to allow domestic violence offenders to continue to own a gun,” Ames said, according to a video posted to YouTube by his mother. “Why on earth would you want someone who beats their wife to have access to a gun?”

Boston University's Dr. Michael Siegel doesn't like guns.

Because we hate guns and shut up . . . The NRA Wants Gun Owners To Carry Everywhere. Here’s Why They Shouldn’t.

Researchers from the Boston University School of Public Health compared homicide rates from 1991 to 2015 in states where law enforcement has wide discretion to reject concealed carry permits, which they call “may-issue” states, with those of states in which permits must be issued if an individual meets the necessary criteria, referred to as “shall-issue” or “right-to-carry” states.

They found that shall-issue states were associated with 8.6 percent higher firearm homicide rates and 10.6 percent higher handgun homicide rates. The study suggests that allowing law enforcement the discretion to reject applicants may save lives.

“If these findings are accurate, we are really moving in the wrong direction by making it easier for people to carry concealed weapons,” said Michael Siegel, professor of community health sciences at the Boston University School of Public Health and the study’s senior author.

comments

  1. avatar Joe R. says:

    The paid shills (too many to list, but in this instance, let’s just call them “the Boston University School of Public Health”) extruded some more “Brown 25” gun-grabbing “gun study”.

    There fixed it.

    1. avatar Ing says:

      If these findings are accurate…” Yep, that’s the big if.

      Considering how few may-issue (if we feel like it…and we probably won’t) states are left, the unreliability of self-reported gun ownership and carrying rates, the wild differences between state/local crime rates even under the same laws, the unreliability of state and local homicide statistics, the fact that legal permit-holders are exceptionally law-abiding (especially the strictures against murder), the fact that “gun violence” is almost exclusively perpetrated by people who by definition are not legal carriers, and the ease with which statistics can be manipulated to a predetermined conclusion, it would be foolish to put any stock in this study.

      In fact, studies show that 90% of all studies are crap.

    2. avatar higgs says:

      Their concultions are wrong when you look at the data they collected.

      Look at the research itself and you will find this is a prime case of manipulating numbers to tell the story you want.

      The researcher do not establish their 9 million carriers in a month estimate at all. the survey was a web survey that ended with a sample of 1440 people who owned guns and carried daily. From that sample only 30% carried daily.

      They asked another question – Do you have a carry permit. Only 328 had a carry permit. of that 328 80% carried on a daily basis. This is kind of an important number since it is illegal to carry a gun in 37 states without permits.

      Of the some 1100 who did not have a carry permit 21% carried daily. We will assume this 21% is from constitutional carry states and hope that criminals are not dumb enough to answer that they carry illegally without a permit.

      Let make the math easy. We know from good sources that at least 14.5 million people have carry permits in the US through roughly the end of 2016 . Their research shows 80% of permit carriers carry daily. That translates into over 11 milion carriers a day, not 3 million. That does not include constitutional carriers or the fact that there sample may not be accurate due to people not answering the survey in the first place becuase many will not answer questions about gun ownership.

      Do I think the 11 million number is accurate? I dont have enough data to claim that. However it is fair to claim their conclusions are wrong by millions based on their own data.

  2. avatar Ralph says:

    “The positions play against type. Northam grew up hunting on Virginia’s Eastern Shore and owns two shotguns.”

    Well, then, we should pwobably be vewy, vewy qwiet. He’s hunting wabbits.

    By this logic, Harvey Weinstein plays against type because he’s married. To an actual woman and everything.

    1. avatar Rokurota says:

      A lot of gun control elitists own very nice Holland & Hollands for their yearly sporting clays at the Greenbrier. Terry McAuliffe made news when he bought a Beretta OU right before the last election (cynically, so he could claim he was a gun owner). Ironic, since he was the reason Virginia lost the Beretta plant.

      1. avatar Cdotson says:

        The Beretta plant was in Maryland, which at present has a republican governor.

        1. avatar Rokurota says:

          Beretta is still HQ’d in MD, but they moved their manufacturing to Gallatin, TN, in 2014 after O’Malley signed a bunch of gun-limiting laws. Virginia was on their short list of destinations, but after we elected McAuliffe, that was the end of that.

  3. avatar W says:

    “Researchers from the Boston University School of Public Health compared homicide rates from 1991 to 2015 in states where law enforcement has wide discretion to reject concealed carry permits, which they call “may-issue” states, with those of states in which permits must be issued if an individual meets the necessary criteria, referred to as “shall-issue” or “right-to-carry” states.”

    Are these the same savants who failed to sound the opioid epidemic warning bells? Not enough money in it?

    1. avatar No one of consequence says:

      Nah … voter base.

    2. avatar Amfivena says:

      “Are these the same savants who failed to sound the opioid epidemic warning bells? Not enough money in it?”

      Actually too much money in it, as in hundreds of millions in pharmaceutical company lobbying.

  4. avatar Noishkel says:

    You know baring actual legislative action I could pretty easily see a day when a slide fire like stock is a standard feature. |3

    As far as I’m concerned the whole of the people should already have access to the basic small arms that are issued to individual service people in the military. Let’s not forget we didn’t have any real serious federal gun control laws at all until the rise of authoritarianism in the 1930s.

    1. avatar Geoff PR says:

      “As far as I’m concerned the whole of the people should already have access to the basic small arms that are issued to individual service people in the military.”

      Yup.

      Switzerland does that and they don’t seem to have a problem with their ex-military keeping an actual machine gun (select-fire ‘assault weapon’) in their closet at home…

      1. avatar Noishkel says:

        Well as I understand that law it’s not quite the ‘pro gun utopia’ as people like to think. Yeah, you have to keep a rifle, but you only get so much ammo and it’s all pretty regulated still. There is still a shooting culture there, but it’s not nearly as strong as it is here. Or so I keep reading. :p

        Still, that nation does not have a serious problem with any real organized gang crime. I can’t say if it’s causative or just a correlation. But it does seem to suggest an over all positive situation in.

        1. avatar No one of consequence says:

          The Swiss also tend to be quite proud (in a quiet way, based on the Swiss I have met and worked with) of their culture and accomplishments as a nation, and they value their independent nature. I’d guess a strong sense of national self-respect (for lack of a better word) has something to do with it also.

        2. avatar Philthegardner says:

          This was already answered by a Swiss national in a previous post a couple of years back. Government-issued ammunition is what is now restricted in Switzerland. Privately purchased ammunition, not so.

        3. avatar doesky2 says:

          The Swiss…..

          ….they couldn’t pick sides between fascist Germany and the free world.

          One way to determine if you are commiting a moral act is to extrapolate what would be the consequences if everybody did that same act. Now imagine if all nations declared neutrality to the threat of Nazism?

  5. avatar Geoff PR says:

    “But proponents argue that permits should be treated like driver’s licenses. If you have one in one state, it should be recognized everywhere else.”

    H’mmm.

    How about this exchange for a ‘compromise’ with the Leftists for national carry –

    Standardized training requirements and no wife-beaters.

    That should kick the chair out from under their complaints and make us look like the reasonable ones willing to compromise.

    EDIT – Can any TTAGers in California downwind from the fires verify feeling a bit light-headed and with an odd ‘Jones’ for pizza?

    Saw in the news over 30 marijuana ‘farms’ went all ‘Cheech & Chong ‘Up in Smoke’ from the wildfires :

    “Deadly wildfires in Northern California are burning up marijuana farms in the so-called Emerald Triangle.”

    http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/12/smallbusiness/california-cannabis-fires/index.html?iid=EL

    1. avatar Snatchums says:

      Alright tinfoil hat aficionados, who wants to bet that those wildfires were started by the DEA to take a bite out of the weed industry that they’re impotent to effect at all.

  6. avatar JasonM says:

    They found that shall-issue states were associated with 8.6 percent higher firearm homicide rates and 10.6 percent higher handgun homicide rates. The study suggests that allowing law enforcement the discretion to reject applicants may save lives.

    Because deaths by other tools don’t count.

    1. avatar FedUp says:

      Because preventing violent criminals from being killed in the line of duty is an important job safety goal. (note that they said ‘homicides’ and not ‘murders’)

      1. avatar Jonathan-Houston says:

        Having come late to this article, that’s what I was searching through the comments for first. You nailed it.

        They’re griping about “homicides”, but they make no ready distinction, if any, between the circumstances amd justifications for these homicides. The extra homicides, if the stats are legitimate, could well be violent criminals killed by their victims.

        If that is the case, then the appropriate response to shall issue states isn’t “Oh the humanity!”, but rather “You’re welcome.”

        1. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

          “They” typically also count dgus as murders two to four times.

    2. avatar Cliff H says:

      Every single time one of these Yahoos throws out this “Fewer guns resulted in fewer gun deaths” meme it must be DEMANDED to see the over-all statistics on homicides and violent crime as comparisons.

      While removing the most efficient tool for violent crime would obviously reduce the number of crime victims killed (or injured) by that tool, it needs to be verified that the crimes did not continue apace and that the homicide rate decreased due to inefficient tools while the actual rate of violent crime and/or non-fatal injuries remained the same or higher.

      This seems to be the game they like to play in England. Very few people get shot to death because of strict prohibitions on guns, but hey are one of the most dangerous places for non-fatal violent attacks and other crimes.

      And I would argue that criminals forced to use “less lethal” tools have less inhibition from committing violent crimes with those other weapons. I’m sure the penalty for robbing at screw-driver point or just beating the crap out of a tourist to get his wallet is much less than murder by firearm, intentional or not.

  7. avatar Hank says:

    Two shot guns oh wow color me impressed…

    1. avatar bobo says:

      bet he has a ‘side by side’ and calls that ‘two’ guns!

  8. avatar Quasimofo says:

    So, this study may have found some sort of correlation, but the actual causation is not established at all. I’m sure that if they had the stats indicating CCW permit holders were partially responsible for the homicide increases they would tout those numbers. Of course, we all know that you’re safer with CCW folks than cops, statistically speaking.

    1. avatar Mark N. says:

      You demonstrate the fallacy of the study and its conclusions. Now if they had correlated the murder rate among CCWers in may issue states versus those in shall issue states, we might have something to talk about. I have a feeling, though, that they would not have gotten the desired result. There are no doubt incidents, even murders, by permit holders, but the numbers are not likely of statistical significance because they are too few.

      1. avatar Quasimofo says:

        Yup. I forget the specifics, but I think a study conducted last year with data from a few states, including TX, showed that CCW permit holders were significantly less likely to engage in criminal behavior than cops. IIRC, other studies may have shown a possible correlation between CCW permitting and decreases in crime/homicide. I’m guessing this BU study is probably the best they could muster with the available data to scare fence riders on this issue.

  9. avatar FedUp says:

    The two major party candidates in Virginia’s race for governor sharply disagree when it comes to guns…

    …and the “Libertarian” is in favor of universal background checks universal prior restraint…

    1. avatar DoomGuy says:

      From what I’ve seen the Libertarian party these days is filled old hippies and young leftists who don’t want to toe the democrat party line… yet, even though they hate the US Military, want to confiscate guns, have open borders, and adopt every single environazi program.

      Really and truly it’s about marijuana. Members of the Libertarian party just want to legalize pot, get high… and that’s about it, other than that they’re mostly just gonna vote with democrats.

      As for other people who identify as conservative and libertarian… we’re pretty much on our own.

  10. avatar former water walker says:

    Yeah I saw that kid grilling the politician. With all the accusations against men I believe it’s worth noting women LIE sometimes. Divorce,childsupport,custody issues-you name it. Sorry little boy…cry me a river SlideFire. Zero sympathy.

    1. avatar Avid Reader says:

      She’s my senator and the school is nearby. This was a total setup solely to try to generate a media frenzy.

  11. avatar sound awake says:

    A socialist student group at Iowa State University has repeatedly made threatening comments about conservatives on social media, but the school says the comments are protected speech.

    In one recent tweet, the school’s Young Democratic Socialists of America (YDSA) chapter called for the hanging and extermination of all “capitalists.”

    “The left has done a good job radicalizing juggalos, weebs, furries, but I will not rest until ‘hXc’ stands for hang+Xterminate capitalists,” the group wrote in an October 4 tweet that has since been deleted.

    CARRY EVERYWHERE EVERY DAY

  12. avatar joetast says:

    Apples and Oranges. Christians n Montana have a 80% lower homicide rate then Muslims in New York, and 2℅ of the population have a greater chance of death

  13. avatar tdiinva says:

    The study is bogus. The data for 2015 shows that there are two states may issue with very high murder rates and Illinois was no issue in 2015 with an above average murder rate. By eyeball, there is no difference in variability of murder rate between may/no issue states and shall issue states. It is highly likely that they excluded DC because “it is not a State.” In other words the dropped the District because it reverses the correlation.

  14. avatar Marcus (Aurelius) Payne says:

    8.6 higher homicides, but no mention of what percentage of homicides are committed by the shall issue permit holders.

    Yawn.

  15. avatar GoD says:

    Chicago!! I rest my case

  16. avatar Mike says:

    The ban on domestic violence offenders owning firearms is troubling. Not all “domestic violence” incidents are felonies,and not all are a husband beating his wife.

    Some domestic violence charges are misdemeanors. I’d wager that the majority are, actually. But this law allows the removal of a civil right for a misdemeanor. Two brothers can get into mutual combat and be charged with this. Misdemeanor domestic violence can be someone making threats–but this person also faces losing his 2nd Amendment rights, if I understand this correctly.

    I’m all for felons forfeiting their rights. But this pre-crime and misdemeanor stuff is not right.

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  18. avatar Hank says:

    More concealed carry equals more homicides. Yes, a justified self defense shooting in which the bad guy dies is technically a firearm related homicide. You could also label it “gun violence.” These are the word games the Left plays to deceive and distort.

  19. avatar Carlos says:

    So the study shows Shall Issue states have higher rates of handgun homicide then May Issue states. Ok but how much of the increase in homicides is caused by Concealed Carriers, my guess not a lot, since Concealed Carries as a group are one of the most law abiding citizens, in fact More lawful then retired policemen.

    If you compare CA vs TX, where CA is one of the most gun controlled states (i.e. universal background checks, magazine size limits, assault weapon bans, handgun Rosters, ammo registration, etc. etc. According to the FBI they both have about the same Homicide rate.

    So maybe Californians are more violent then Texans and thus need stricter gun control to order to lower the Homicide rate to the more peaceful Texans. Or maybe Concealed Carries are not the cause of Homicide.

  20. To hell with the Swiss. When the greatest confrontation between good and evil in the History of the World was playing out on their doorstep, the best they could do was vote “present”.

  21. But the Swiss were just fine stashing Nazi loot in their big Swiss bank vaults.

    Until they got caught, that is.

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