Today’s Question of the Day comes to us from former FBI supervisory special agent James Gagliano, posed in a politico.com article entitled Antifa, white supremacists exploit loose gun laws. Those of you familiar with the United States Constitution’s Second Amendment prohibition against government infringement of Americans’ natural and civil right to keep and bear arms will immediate focus on . . .

the word “let.”

Under the terms of the aforementioned document, the government doesn’t get to decide whether or not to “let” Americans exercise the keeping and bearing or arms — regardless of circumstance. Yes, well, the Heller decision, the Supreme Court specifically OK’d government gun bans in “sensitive places.”

Is a “hate rally” a “sensitive place”? Do you think the government “let” people who gather to protest or counter-protest carry an AR-15?

135 Responses to Question of the Day: Why Would You Let Someone Bring an AR-15 to a Hate Rally?

  1. It’s not illegal to hate, or at least it shouldn’t be. It is illegal to initiate violence on another, whether there’s hate in your heart or not, unless you’re associated with the state in which case initiated violence is the preferred way of doing business.

    • Precisely. As I type this, thoughts have not yet been criminalized. Neither has political speech, though both are under attack from the intolerant left. We have always criminalized actions. In this case those bearing arms have every right to do so unless they brandish their weapons in some threatening manner or use them in a non-defensive manner. Same goes for the scumbag antgifa members up until the point that they throw the bricks or bags of feces or Molotov cochtails.

    • While it’s not illegal to hate, it’s often in very poor taste.

      If you are attending a rally where Neo-Nazi’s are also visibly present and arguing for your point of view, don’t be surprised if folks lump you in with them. No matter what you say about the Second Amendment protecting the First, people who hang out at a rallies with Neo-Nazi’s are a-holes.

  2. Nazism is always going to incite violence.. you can say they have free speech rights all you want but you can’t uninvent Auschwitz. If you belong to one of the groups targeted by Nazis, you know you are dealing with an existential threat and will respond accordingly.

    • Also, if you enjoy living in an America where the Constitution and Bill of Rights still apply, you should know that totalitarians of any stripe — fascists, Nazis, and the so-called antifa alike — are an existential threat and be ready to respond accordingly.

        • “left” blah blah blah. The PROGRESSIVES (marxists) have ALWAYS been such. The dem party has just been absorbed by the progs.

    • I could say the same thing about communists. (Quite frankly, they make the Nazis look like petulant children.) Does that mean that we can now go ahead and shut down the entire DNC?

      • It never ceases to amaze me how little ink Stalin’s post-war purges and progroms receive, despite the fact that he killed more Russians than Hitler killed Jews, and perhaps even more were killed than died in the war. The true extent of his crimes were so efficiently buried that they may never be accurately ascertained, but are estimated in the tens of millions.

        • Holodomor. That was as many as 12 million people in 2 years from just one tiny part of Stalin’s reign of terror. Mao’s cultural revolution was ~100 million.

        • This has been something I’ve wondered about as well.

          The reason, I suspect, is because academia has long had a soft spot for socialism and Communism is simply a more extreme version of the socialist state they seek. Most are too dumb to understand or too dedicated to the ideology to admit the murderous and tyrannical nature at the root of the system they support.

          Much as I despise Glenn Beck he had something years back that got me researching the history of the socialist movement back into the late 1800’s. Back then what I would call the”extremists” were the Fabian Socialists. These guys were shockingly honest and actually pretty smart. They recognized, as The Founders did, that human beings are not actually equal. We all have innate abilities and disabilities which vary enormously. Therefore life is not “fair”. The Founders felt that the way forward, towards the best society possible was a free society where people competed and we’re entitled to the fruits of their own labors in a system where providing and protecting the equality of opportunity was the job of society/government. Sink or swim if you like. Charity would take care of those who really couldn’t make it and the job of government was to ensure a level playing field.

          The Fabians on the other hand were, like all Socialists, concerned with equality of outcome rather than opportunity. They were also the first, so far as I can tell, to openly espouse the idea that the way to get to such a perfect society required the elimination of those who were a “drag” on society. What they recognized and publicly declared before other Socialists was that certain people simply didn’t fit with their model. A Socialist must produce as much or more than they consume on a macro level to be useful to a Socialist society. Those that fail to do this are “unfairly” draining society’s resources and must be dealt with. The Fabians advocated the creation of a “humane gas” to do this.

          Then Hitler went ahead and actually did it. Of course the Japanese dragged us into a hellish war, partly against Germany, and when the system of extermination was revealed to the world most of the world reacted with horror and the Socialists kind of had to act like they were also horrified by their own machinations.

          Following the war the Socialists didn’t change their opinion but they didn’t voice it much. The closed nature of the USSR combined with it’s skillful propaganda machine made it easier to ignore the horrors that the regime committed against it’s own people and those in its various “Republics”. This “kinder, friendlier” socialism made it easy for the ignorant and the true believers to skip over or willfully gloss over the true nature of Socialism which is effectively totalitarian at its core because it fundamentally must control human behavior to be stable.

        • strych9: Modern socialists are somewhat different from the Fabian Socialists you describe. The moderns believe Bill Gates should work his ass off so that people who are too lazy to do that can live as well as he does. The Fabians would get rid of them.

          Leftists are arrogant, self righteous, would be tyrants. They believe the world would be a wonderful place if only they could impose their will on the general public whom they hold in contempt. They would be perfectly happy with a Soviet class structure — a wealthy, powerful elite who run things, an upper middle class who implement the elite’s orders, and the general public who live in poverty. Leftists turn vicious when reality fails to conform to their illusions.

    • Once you start restricting first amendment freedoms on the basis of fear for one group- it becomes *very* easy to do it to another group, and so on. Any “anti nazi laws” would quickly be applied to any non left wing group in time.

    • Then antifa belongs on the same level, since marxism, which they follow, murdered 100 million innocent men, women and children.

    • “Nazism is always going to incite violence”

      Yeah, no.

      It was the Communist uprising attempts in 1918, 1919, and 1923 that threw the war, and then later tried to take over the nation of Germany that created the desire to elected anti Communists in the damn first place.

    • If you belong to one of the groups targeted by Nazis…

      Pure hysteria.
      American Nazis are a ridiocously small fringe group that poses not the slightest existential threat to anybody.

      Dennis Prager, a Jew who literally wrote the book on Anti-semitism, laughs at the idea of a threat from Ameican Nazis. He knows they are a bunch of idiots with no power.

      You’re are just falling for the hysteria from the MFM

        • After all the commies show up for their free helicopter rides, sure. The point is that if you consider American “Nazis” to be a serious threat, by the same logic, American commies are an existential threat.

    • Both Antifa and BLM espouse totalitarian, anti-capitalist, policies. The public behavior of both groups can easily be equated with that of Nazis.

  3. Hell no they shouldn’t and supporters of gun rights should insist that they don’t. When the general public sees those images a vast majority of people think it’s wrong. Rallies like those are what galvanize people behind gun control whether it’s right or wrong. In the interest of maintaining my 2nd amendment freedoms I am AOK denying bigots theirs. We are one white supremacist opening fire on a group of unarmed black people away from another assault weapons ban.

    • TLDR: Rights for me and not for thee?

      Your protected speech is the same as theirs. Cant cherry pick it. As much as I would like to black bag these Antifa turds so they never again see the light of day, it applies to them also.

    • Because fuck the Constituon, right? We live in a country where even the most vile commie scum has rights, including the right to tool up against people trying to attack them.

    • “In the interest of maintaining my 2nd amendment freedoms I am AOK denying bigots theirs. ”
      And that, my friends, is EXACTLY what a police state sounds like. Neither Stalin, Mao, nor Hitler could have said it better.

    • Noah, so are you going to say when the leftists simply go the SPLC route, label you a white hispanic Nazi Klan member simply for owning a gun? The better solution would be to have real conservatives, libertarians, us don’t tread on me types, counter protest the nazis along with the commies. Us small government types are naturally in opposition to both fascists and communists.

    • “Hate rally” = any rally organized by liberals. I kind of agree with this guy, I think he is advocating shooting dead anyone who criticizes Donald Trump, for example, without benefit of any protections under the Bill of Rights, due process, any of that nonsense required for civilized Republicans. Guy comes to “rally” with a club? Shoot him in the face. See if they agree when the shoe is on the other foot. sarc/off

  4. The issue is not about ‘allowing an AR-15 to a hate rally’ so much as the real problem that’s being covered up here.

    A:) the media is labeling anyone on the political right as a purveyor of ‘hate’ and they actively cover up left wing violence.
    B:) left wing political violence has skyrocketed in the past few years, so much so we’ve had DGU’s involving them.
    C:) local left wing activist mayors are specially ordering the police to stand down almost very time this happens.
    D:) Hack celebrities and NGO’s are being allowed to fund and support this leftist activist violence.
    E:) Major internet technology firms are now also getting involved by censoring negative coverage of this leftist violence.

    No, the question of ‘allowing’ rifles at these protest is a complete smoke screen to cover up the real sources of all of this violence. The Political Left. After all, so far the armed part of these protest have universally been the least violent situations of all. While coordination doesn’t always mean causation it’s a pretty obvious trend.

      • Examples? If you can’t find numerous sources for these you aren’t looking.

        A:) the media is labeling anyone on the political right as a purveyor of ‘hate’ and they actively cover up left wing violence.

        Patriot Prayer vs. Portland Stands United Against Hate

        B:) left wing political violence has skyrocketed in the past few years, so much so we’ve had DGU’s involving them.

        Shot fired in Charlottesville in response to antifa improvised flamethrower

        C:) local left wing activist mayors are specially ordering the police to stand down almost very time this happens.

        Baltimore during 2015 riots

        D:) Hack celebrities and NGO’s are being allowed to fund and support this leftist activist violence.

        George Soros

        E:) Major internet technology firms are now also getting involved by censoring negative coverage of this leftist violence.

        Facebook and its “fact checkers” including Snopes and other lefty organizations.

        • Why oh why am I feeding the troll?

          So when I specifically call out Snopes as a questionable left wing source and yet you still use Snopes as your source. Snopes is one of the ones doing the censoring! You just proved my point. I could list lots of sources myself and you would claim fault with every one of my sources by using your old standby left wing “sources” to discredit sources and then its a pointless argument over whose sources are correct. Why waste my time. That’s how this whole fake news meme got going and everyone says the other side is fake news. If I had the time to argue all the facts with Jim, he would lose the argument but devolve into name calling and changing the subject. Like every other hard core liberal I try to reason with. So frankly I have more important things to do than this nonsense conversation. So go ahead Jim, get your last word in. I know you will because you just can’t resist.

      • Jim? Hello? You got your proof. Hello, you still there?

        Typical. They don’t really care about proof that they are wrong. They just jump to the next blog or talking point where they have to be discredited all over again.

      • Yeah funny how it’s always the left that demands ‘proof or it didn’t happen’ one every single data point from a right wing person, but will abjectly throw away any actual statement that counters their narrative.

        Well I’ll tell you what: channel accepted.

        Point A:) Washington Post Tries To Slander The Conservative Movement By Linking It To Radicals
        http://www.dailywire.com/news/15628/washington-post-tries-slander-conservative-frank-camp

        Point B:) Black-clad antifa members attack peaceful right-wing demonstrators in Berkeley (This book ends really well with point A, given how they media is doing what looks like glamor shots of ANTIFA rioters later in the article.)
        https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/08/28/black-clad-antifa-attack-right-wing-demonstrators-in-berkeley/

        Point C:) Charlottesville mayor: Police chief told me ‘Stay out of my way’
        https://hotair.com/archives/2017/08/24/charlottesville-mayor-police-chief-told-stay-way/

        Point D:) Celebs Voice Apparent Support For UC Berkeley Riot Over Breitbart Speaker
        http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2017/02/02/celebs-voice-apparent-support-for-uc-berkeley-riot-over-breitbart-speaker/

        Point E, p. 1:) YouTube Has Quietly Begun “Censoring” Journalists Who Criticize Government (and that one started up in ’16)
        http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-09-15/youtube-has-quietly-begun-censoring-journalists-who-criticize-government

        Point E, p. 2) Facebook, Google to Censor French News During Election
        http://www.independentsentinel.com/facebook-google-to-censor-french-news-during-election/

        Point E, p. 3:) 10 times Facebook censored conservatives
        http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2016/05/26/10-times-facebook-censored-conservatives.html

        Now Jim… my question for you now is can you refute anything said here without you just say ‘oh that’s not real news sources’. And more to the point, can you do so in a way that can complete refute EVERYTHING I’ve said here without an excessive amount of cherry picking?

        • Thank you. It’s especially gratifying when you can use their own sources like the Washington Post in your rebuttals.

        • Cute that you try pre-empting a response by posting absurd qualifiers which I won’t follow. Here is what you are attempting to prove:

          “A:) the media is labeling anyone on the political right as a purveyor of ‘hate’ and they actively cover up left wing violence.
          B:) left wing political violence has skyrocketed in the past few years, so much so we’ve had DGU’s involving them.
          C:) local left wing activist mayors are specially ordering the police to stand down almost very time this happens.
          D:) Hack celebrities and NGO’s are being allowed to fund and support this leftist activist violence.
          E:) Major internet technology firms are now also getting involved by censoring negative coverage of this leftist violence.”

          A) Doesn’t prove that, at all. Try again.
          B) Where is the proof of skyrocketing leftwing violence over the years? I don’t see it there.
          C) “This is more reason why the conspiracy theory circulating among the fake news and alt-right networks that I somehow ordered a “stand down” among the police is even more crazy than it seems. I simply don’t have that legal authority. I couldn’t order a “stand down” if I wanted to…” This disproves what is being claimed, and it is in the link you posted.
          D) None of that shows anyone supporting left wing violence at all actually, and where is the funding?
          E) You missed the point here entirely, where are they censoring coverage of left wing violence? What you responded to is just incorrect and has nothing to do with that.

          Oh and ZeroHedge? Might as well post InfoWars you kook.

      • Well since my original post mysteriously disappeared I’ll try this again. Probably because of a spam filter.

        If nothing else each headline I’m dropping here can be easily searched just with the headline.

        Point A:) Washington Post Tries To Slander The Conservative Movement By Linking It To Radicals

        Point B:) Black-clad antifa members attack peaceful right-wing demonstrators in Berkeley (This book ends really well with point A, given how they media is doing what looks like glamor shots of ANTIFA rioters later in the article.)

        Point C:) Charlottesville mayor: Police chief told me ‘Stay out of my way’

        Point D:) Celebs Voice Apparent Support For UC Berkeley Riot Over Breitbart Speaker

        Point E, p. 1:) YouTube Has Quietly Begun “Censoring” Journalists Who Criticize Government (and that one started up in ’16)

        Point E, p. 2) Facebook, Google to Censor French News During Election

        Point E, p. 3:) 10 times Facebook censored conservatives

        Now Jim… my question for you now is can you refute anything said here without you just say ‘oh that’s not real news sources’. And more to the point, can you do so in a way that can complete refute EVERYTHING I’ve said here without an excessive amount of cherry picking?

  5. I let myself do all sorts of nice things. I hope they have a nice set of pearls, and they’re strung on kevlar threads. They’re gonna but clutchin’ so hard.

  6. Ah, yes, why would you ever “let” someone bear arms? It’s unthinkable that people should ever exercise their rights without first begging for leave to do so.

  7. The FBI agents statement about someone being “let” having a gun reminds me of the Ruby Ridge case many years ago where apparently the FBI didn’t like it that Americans were “allowed” to have guns of the US Constitution.

    As long as the open carrier is polite I have no problem with them.

  8. The right of any individual to bring an AR to one of those rallies is no different from their right to say what they want at one of those rallies. Provided that they’re not, as someone above already said, initiating violence, then there’s no problem. I acknowledge that the right to self defense doesn’t just extend to people with whom I agree. So, if the question is whether or not government should “let” haters bring their rifles to these hate demonstrations, I’d say it’s none of their freakin’ business until someone tries to use their rifle to infringe on someone else’s right to life.

    To be clear, I think they’re a bunch of d-bags, but if you don’t like hate groups marching with rifles, then here’s what you can do: Don’t show up. If you’re not there, then it doesn’t matter if they’re carrying AR’s or feather dusters, because you’re… wait for it… not there.

  9. As long as these people–and I’ve read that the main militia groups there were nonaligned–act in the classic militia capacity of keeping the peace, the fact that people are intimidated by their guns (and thus less likely to engage in violence) is a good thing. If they pull a Kent State (which I suggest it unlikely coming from the right wing groups but uncertain if coming from the Antifa), well then we have a problem. Until then, we don’t.

  10. I see where Noah is coming from here. People are jumping him because of “AMERICA” and “FREEDOM”. But let’s be honest here. One psycho goes out to start a race war by…say. Shooting up a church and we are in AWB territory. We can all play on the internet and scream “it’s our right;”. But when it’s all said and done. We vote in weak politicians that won’t back us in the good times. How do we expect them to help us in the dark times? Don’t believe me? I just read that Paul Ryan is blocking national reciprocity. Why!? We have an incident that proves the validity of reciprocity. We have the house. We have the senate. And we have the White House. And they still won’t push our gun rights agenda. They will not fight for our rights when it gets into public image territory. They will go down the “common sense” gun laws road like they always do. Why wouldn’t they? They loose majority and then they have us idiots back them because they are the pro gun Party and then they do nothing for eight years. References? See Republican Party 1996-2004.

    New Reference? See Republican Party 2016-2020

    I don’t think limiting freedoms is the right way to go. But this was posted as an open dialog. Maybe they should quit doing these if we are going to have 20 people attacking one. It doesn’t gain the website viewership and is just a false pretense for clicks.

    • I’ve posted this elsewhere, but it’s relevant here and always bears repeating:

      When your government is based on stealing from one group of people and giving it to another group then you get exactly what you’re describing. Left/Right, Liberal/Conservative – these things have little to no meaning in that environment. They are two sides of the same coin. The only possible difference is who is getting stolen from the most and whom the looted plunder is going to.

      Voting in “your guy” is never going to work – at any level – when this is the political environment and the nationally, culturally accepted definition of what government should do. They are bought and paid for. If you want to see where their votes are going to lie go follow the money and see where their campaign funds come from and see where that money comes from…that’s a start.

      And the real apparatus that works behind the scenes? Those are the guys that are recipients of a lot of the looted plunder and guess what? They’re gonna do whatever they dang well please with the plunder because that’s what criminals do! In any other setting or instance this would be called a mob or mafia, or banditry at the very least, but call it a “government” and the stolen loot is for “benefits for the citizens” and then it’s magically A-OK and standard operating procedure…

      Only way out of this is to burn down the current structures and start a new experiment. Doesn’t need to be violent or messy…just push for peaceful secession and let States start forging their own destinies like they were supposed to. The “civil war” retarded our growth and experiments in liberty by over 100 years now, time to get it back on track.

    • Because White Supremacists are tiny and inconsequential to the violence and expanse of Antifa and their collectivist brethren.

        • Only if you believe the left wing propaganda machine that labels all conservatives and nationalists as “white supremacists”. In the real world, actual white supremacists haven’t had political power since the Dixiecrats were run out of town on a rail.

        • Hmm…I would have to respectfully disagree with you on that one. Can you name one politician, preferably one in office, on the national level that is promoting white supremacy? Personally, I think neither white supremacists nor hardcore, legitimate communists hold much power in the US. However I see many Democrat, progressive politicians, backed by major media organizations (which in and of themselves hold political clout) that at the very least sympathize with Antifa. I’ve seen zero politicians, Republican or Democrat, sympathize one bit with white supremacists. I may have misunderstood you, but I doubt white supremacists hold more political clout right now than groups like Antifa.

        • See the “protest” recently that had 30-40 supposed white supremacists show up at a park bandstand to peacefully play some music and (IIRC) protest removal of historic statues, surrounded by around 10,000 “counter protesters”, who just coincidentally showed up, to scream hate and murder until the original demonstration was cancelled, when they continued the attempt to riot? The sight was amazing, pretending that does not happen is very liberal.

        • Larry, what? If you hold a rally with abhorrent views and people come out to counter them, that is freedom right there. Nothing says you can say whatever you want without consequence.

        • Again with the delusions Jim. No, you do not have the right to “counter” people’s events with riots, intimidation, or violence. Your “right” to be easily triggered stops at the tip of the other guy’s nose. Once you disrupt their event, you are not exercising your free speech, you’re a domestic terrorist.

          … and yes, free speech means that you have the right to get on your soap box and say whatever you want without the government turning a blind eye to people using violence or threats of violence to shut you up.

        • Jim, that wasn’t Larry’s point, and that was obvious. Why did you deflect, and why won’t you answer Swilson’s question?

        • Why would I answer his question? No politician today directly will state they support white supremacy, they just do it by being like Jeff Sessions and supporting policy that goes after non-whites.

        • If by “goes against” you mean “doesn’t give out free shit”, you might have a point. But calling the guy who sent a good chunk of the Klan to jail a “white supremacist” is delusional in the extreme.

        • Ah, yes they never directly state it. The ol’ racist dog whistle claim is becoming as tired as “raciss” and Nazi. I wonder what policies Sessions has supported that specifically target non-whites, because they are not white.

    • How many “white supremacist” rallies can you point to where the “white supremacists” were the ones who instigated the violence?

        • You realize no one here is defending the Charlottesville murderer right? You realize that white supremacists at Charlottesville had just as much right to be there as anyone else, right? You realize that Antifa went looking for the white supremacists and not the other way around right? You realize that for every instance of an actual Neo Nazi or Klansman instigating violence over the last year, there are many times more instances of Antifa-types randomly attacking people for perceived political leanings, right?

        • You realize that the white supremacists were attacked physically by antifa and forced to end their gathering before the ensuing violence from one of their members? I deliberately said “instigated”.

        • Where is the proof antifa/etc. “instigated” the violence when the white supremacists showed up with shields and weaponry?

        • Simple Jeff, the fact that nobody was hurt and no violence took place the night before when ANTIFA was absent.

    • The White supremacist threat is *greatly* overstated. They are few, poorly organized, poorly lead, and actually, literally quite stupid. They will never find a real foothold in American politics. The idea that the “white nationalist movement” is a massive racist movement which is the backbone of Trumps support is 100% media fabrication. Trumps support came very simply actually, from the majority of regular Americans being put down by coastal elites for decades. These nazi/klan orgs are simply trying to leech off that for support. Regular blue collar Americans which put trump in office would gladly stomp their asses into the ground faster, and more effectively than tween hipster antifa ever could. Antifa is only more worrisome not because of its strength, but it’s backing by the true threat, the media.

  11. From a legal standpoint “let” is the wrong term since carrying guns at a protest is a first amendment exercise of the second amendment.
    Tactically, I think showing up at a rally dressed as Minutemen with muskets sends a more potent message while neatly skewering the classic antigun argument about the Founding Fathers not meaning AR rifles.

  12. Who gets to define what is hate? If I go to a Pro-Life rally then according to the SPLC I have participated in a hate group. If I go to a One Man One Woman marriage rally then again I have participated in a hate rally according to SPLC. You have plenty of corporations and the SPLC that are making what was considered once normal and loving as hateful and dangerous.

  13. Ya lost me at FBI and Politico. I see Gagliano’s infringement, and Politico’s red (a _ _) meat for gun-grabbers, and raise them a middle finger and a STFU.

    Politico is evil FAKE NEWS. And Gagliano believes too much of his own press (a/k/a: FAKE NEWS) http://www.hvmag.com/Hudson-Valley-Magazine/January-2012/People-to-Watch-2012-James-Gagliano-Orange-County-FBI-Agent-Newburgh-NY/

    AND Gagliano WORKS FOR FAKE NEWS (Law Enforcement Analyst for CNN and is a frequent contributor to Newsmax and CNN Opinion online):https://www.thayerleaderdevelopment.com/people/faculty/james-a.-gagliano

    I round out my comments with another FU to the evil POS satan’s blue house of (D).

  14. The Far Right despite their really weird ideas about Hitler being a Liberal and a Socialist does not jive with reality. The Far Right’s bible is Mein Kampf and always has been. Herr Drumpf keeps a copy by his bed side and this was revealed by no less than his ex-wife so I will take that as fact especially considering the way he ran his campaign which was right out of Hitler’s books and his brain washed followers ate it up for breakfast, lunch and supper. They loved it.

    The Charlottesville march was by Herr Drumpfs most dedicated followers the American Nazi’s yelling insults to Jews and the veiled threats were not falling od deaf ears by any means. The American republic reacted with horror and revulsion and it forced the rest of the scheduled Nazi marches Nationwide to be cancelled.

    The credo of the Far Right mimics Hitler’s hatred of all minorities and all religions any different than his own.

    The only controversy is that of the Antifa which the Liberals disagree with, preferring to stick with the Martin Luther King and Gandi’s philosophy of non-violence while the Antifa which originally came to be to fight Hitlers Nazi’s in the streets of Germany believes fighting force with force. Depending on how immediate the threat is depends on which course to take. The non-violent course takes longer and usually is longer lasting and many times permanent but the resort to violence sometimes was necessary as when the Jews rose up in the Warsaw Ghetto uprising but unfortunately they waited too long to have done any good except take a few Nazi’s with them.

    I think the violence against Herr Drumpfs Nazi’s really shook the Right Wing Bastards up as they cancelled all their rallies and law enforcement has now gone after the leaders on every trumped up charge they can think of which of course is the way “real life works”, Constitution or no Constitution. If the majority of the public makes a big enough protest law enforcement is almost forced to act to keep society from full blown civil war in the streets but in this case they were and are doing Herr Drumpfs brainwashed Morons an actual favor by arresting their warped leaders because it was proven the majority of Americans are all against them.

    The idea of bringing weapons to the rally and threatening a Jewish Synagogue really was over the top and the Morons sealed their own fate. It also gave gun owners in general a black eye as the non-gun owning public now think every one that owns a semi-auto rifle or even pistol is a dangerous disgusting Nazi which does not do gun owners any good in their fight to preserve gun rights. All in all the rally was the height of absolute stupidly but again what do you expect from the Far Right they are always their own worst enemy.

    • We all know what Gospel an ex-wife’s word is! And look at all the opposing political parties that Trump has outlawed, look at how he has opened all our eyes to international Jewry (or Mexicanry?), look at how he has purged all the undesirables from the Republican Party. He’s even demanded Mexico give us Baja California so that our own over-crowded California has a little breathing room. Yep, Herr Trump is obviously following every page of Mein Kampf.

    • Wow. Talk about a load of fake news. Once again, the dude who claims to be an NRA member since 1952, and can shoot regular 9mm FMJ ball through steel at 125 yards, opens his big fat lying mouth about politics, and surprise surprise it’s all a bunch of fake news. Trump is no hitler, and you liberals should be thankful. Hitler was an evil mastermind. A true genius villain. Trump is a foul mouthed slum lord, and although I support him, is nowhere near the intellegence level of Hitler, and could never pull off what Hitler did. Now crisco kid, you gonna threaten to sue me again?

    • Ya, pop your head out C Kid – the official name of the Nazi Party is/was the National Socialist German Workers’ Party. There are broke (D)I<K MFs out there that say "Hitler wanted to abolish Socialism and Communism" and instead institute a National Socialism called Fascism. But those idiots have been denied a full view of the end-state of what Hitler was trying to achieve, which is nothing but socialism, followed by a further slide into communism, Both socialism and communism ARE PYRAMID SCHEMES WHERE THE PEOPLE AT THE BOTTOM STARVE AND THE PEOPLE AT THE TOP LIVE LIKE KINGS [e.g., POS MF Fidel Castro, from the half a wet-tick-turd isle of Cuba left an estate of over $900 Million to his heirs]. There were no greater supporters of the Nazi Party than the evil (D) [all the other time(s) they were not serving satan and communism].

      Antifa – is the product of liberal (D) ass-rape. It is their baby (animal/pus/whatever). They birthed it, they breed it, they fund it, and THEY FEED IT. And you are one of its (and the evil (D)'s) supporters.

      There's no true "far right" that does not embrace and employ CONSERVATISM. Nothing about Conservatism would even contemplate the crap put out there by Hitler in Mein Kampf.

      The evil POS (D) liberals, progressives, socialists, communists, globalists, and rinos are ALL THE SAME ANAL LINING MEAT. YOU ARE A SCOURGE and a recurring one.

      • FURTHER – “It also gave gun owners in general a black eye as the non-gun owning public now think every one that owns a semi-auto rifle or even pistol is a dangerous disgusting Nazi which does not do gun owners any good in their fight to preserve gun rights.”

        ONLY THE “ANAL LINING MEAT” INDIVIDUALS (that I referred to earlier) really believe this.

    • Funny how it’s not your mythical “Nazis” who are up on attempted murder charges in CA for hitting a peaceful protestor with a bike lock.

      • That’s an excellent idea. I whish he paid me anything. We need more people in this world like Soros. I suggest you look up how much money he has made to humanitarian causes and then compare him to Herr Drumpf and his blind greed.

    • Ahhh…. a reply from Billy the Frisco kid. You gotta be more creative than just shouting “Nazis” all the time Billy. It’s like watching you continually throwing up beer. Even ANTIFA psychos can come up with better vomit. Stick with the Muslims Billy. They feel your pain as well as your balls. A pat on Michelle Obama’s huge butt will make you feel better. After all her husband created ISIS. And we all know that’s where most of your friends are.

      • Yep my friends are all civilized people who are anti-hate, anti-Nazi, anti-Conservative and anti Herr Drumpf. What better friends could I have. Its called being civilized. You should try it some time.

        • Not good enough to say your a POS liberal, you gotta say you’re “anti Conservative” (as though your liberalism needed a superlative)?

          C Kid don’t sound like she’s from here.

        • I would Billy the Frisco Kid but I’m not into raping young children or decapitating people because of their religion. Like you and your “civilized” buddies are. Syria’s falling Billy and you and your kind are next.

  15. Freedom is scary. Control is desirable. Rights are dispensable when convenient. No abuse will occur so long as you don’t ask any uncomfortable questions.

    Move along taxslave, nothing to see here.

    • Move along stingy tight wad Conservative. Taxes make for a civilized society and guess what, every industrialized country in the world is Socialistic including the U.S. its just that we as yet do not have enough of it. But we Liberals are changing all that as we drag you kicking and screaming into the civilized world of the 21st Century. We need no more Capitalvanians screwing up this country anymore than it already is.

  16. Totally correct. The use of “let” presupposes the government’s right to control who assembles, where, and how. Now, I am no constitutional scholar, but it’s hard to understand how this could have been the Founders’ intent.

    From the article, “What makes the current threat environment especially combustible are open carry laws in many states that allow civilians to display virtually any gun in public that they want, often with no permit, training or background check required, according to federal and state law enforcement officials who are closely monitoring extremist groups.”

    The violence is being done with fists, pepper spray, clubs, and shields. It is done sometimes in full view of the police and sometimes when they withdraw. So, the open carry angle seems like a red herring, or merely the rant of a gun grabber who seeks to promote his old agenda regardless of current circumstance.

  17. My two cents. Being European and pro-gun… OK, let’s carry our guns (if laws allow it and necessities call for it), but not to a political rally or any public event for that matter. Only law enforcement agencies should have that right. Let’s ask ourselves – what do I contribute if I bring my gun. Not much. Will I use against opposing political party? No, I won’t. Will this make my esteemed opponent change hers or his mind? Not really. So why bother?

    • Law enforcement agencies don’t have “rights” here. The bill of rights applies to all the citizens of the nation, not to government entities. Government entities are granted an certain amount of authority by the will of the people through an elected legislature. Also, government officials shouldn’t have “extra” rights. I say this as someone who is law enforcement. Now, A public event can be determined to be anything. Further, one of these places is likley a place you’ll need one. An armed society is a polite society.

      • Thank you for your answer. I fully understand your opinion and agree with you.
        Well, unfortunately that’s the difference between legislation in USA and Europe. Bill of Rights (Second Amendment) gives you and all other citizens the right to own / carry a firearm. This is not how things work in Europe. Owning and carrying a firearm is “a privilege” granted to a citizen by the state. Further more, our local law states that no one except law enforcement agencies can carry firearms at public events (there’s a legal definition of what is considered as public event – has to be organized, announced in advanced,…), some exceptions to that rule, but very few…
        My reasoning was simple – since I own a handgun, but cannot carry it such circumstances (nor open or concealed) I expect that this applies to my “political opponents” as well. Hopefully law enforcement will do their best to keep law and order but this is in many occasions overly optimistic… The big question is what to do when things go wrong. Would “open carried” firearm act as a deterrent? Perhaps it would, but you have to have that right. Going openly against the law… I don’t know if this serves the cause I am trying to promote.

        • “Bill of Rights (Second Amendment) gives you and all other citizens the right to own / carry a firearm.”

          This is a sad, but common misconception of rights. Our founding documents, including the Constitution and the first 10 Amendments, give us Americans nothing. We all have the same rights. You have no more, and no less rights than I. They are “inalienable”, as we would say. That word means “unable to be taken away from or given away by the possessor”. You can only choose not to exercise them.

          I understand those choices come with consequences, and that now those consequences are different for you than for me. But please do recognize, the right to self defense, including the use of a firearm, is the same for us both.

        • +++ JWT

          The Declaration of Independence recites the Rights we believe ALL men to have (we don’t give a flying F where you find them) we draw a line around the U.S. and say to EACH OTHER AND EVERY OTHER SWINGING PECKER OUT THERE, that we’ll down you for trying taking away those rights (unless we have prior failed to uphold Societal Agreement).

          We don’t need to “export” our belief, the rest of the world just needs to wake-up-to-it. This rock is full of people. Some people want to try to make you think they are a more noble creature than you, and you have to go and

          “assume among the powers of the earth [TAKE UP “ARMS”], the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature’s God entitle them” AND BREAK IT OFF IN THEM. – Paragraph 1 – (U.S.) Declaration of Independence.

    • Why bother? Deterrence. It will give pause to any of my “esteemed opponents” who decide to try throwing acid in my face, or setting me on fire with an improvised flame thrower, or splitting my skull with a bike lock… etc… (FYI, all of these have happened.)

    • Farrier1970, you left one big question out.
      “Will I need a firearm to protect myself or others from harm?”
      Each person has to answer that question for themselves, and act accordingly, as is their right.

      • jwtaylor, yes, that is the right you have in the US and thanks God and your forefathers for it. If you believe that carrying a firearm will protect you and others from harm, by all means do so. I am sure that you will act as any responsible citizen would and will not abuse that right.
        According to our local legislation I do not have that right. So what should I do – openly defy the law? It’s a very tough choice. And if I look at current situation in Europe, I wish EU citizens would have that right.

    • Yes I agree with what you said but you should have added that shooting people makes them into Martyrs that only stirs up more hate and violence on both sides.

      You see the U.S. is still not as civilized as most European Countries that outlaw “hate speech” because the Europeans know only to well what happened under Hitler and his hate speech and now here in the U.S. Herr Drumpf is repeating History all over again with his Hateful and Racist ideology. Right out of Mein Kampf and a Conservatives “wet dream” come true. The idolize every word in Hitler’s book.

      • Miss:
        You ain’t from here. If you need Hillary to deport a videographer cause he offended mulehamed or something, too late we beat her by picking President Trump.

        We didn’t do it to piss you off (we’re not that petty, and we value our country and our own time too much) it was just a bonus.

      • The way you obsess over Nazism you should really move to Germany where the Muslim brotherhood that you’re a part of would welcome you in with open suicide vests. Something to think about Billy the Frisco Kid. With you blown up the world would be a better place. Think about it.

  18. What’s a “Hate Rally”?

    We should have “‘Love’ Crime” statutes ie. I loved her so much that when she told me she was getting a divorce I punched her in the mouth. See how THAT works?

  19. What the F@#K you mean let??? It’s my Right and I’ll Take mine any damn place I choose. PERIOD!!! and F@#K anyone who doesn’t like it. I am willing and able to protect my Rights against all enemies both foreign and domestic.

    • Nope it does not work that way. You live in a fantasy world. Don’t obey the law and they get rid of you and we are long overdue for a new law that bans totally hate speech which the Far Right loves so much. Its time the U.S. caught up to other civilized Democracies and put an end to such Nazi behavior and ideology.

        • I will not have to do anything Herr Hauptman but sit back, watch the evening news and watch the Feds burn your house down with a flame thrower with you in it. It great entertainment and satisfaction to see Nazi’s eradicated for not obeying a new law. So much for the fantasy of the Minuteman Moron concept.

        • Well, when your balls drop, you may want to sack up and stack up. We control the federal government kid. We also represent the overwhelming majority of the military. What I’m going to enjoy is watching commies like you take swan dives out of helicopters.

      • Awww Billy the Frisco Kid… C’mon you know that all the vomit you spew is fake news. Please for the love of Trump stop it. The Obama family aka “Gorilla’s in the Mist” is the one you should be beating on. Look at the division those Stalinist created in this country. Look at the black and white conflict. Even your friends the Muslims couldn’t deal with Obama’s lies and wretchedness. Obama created the very mess you scream and yell about. No one else but a black Muslim could’ve done that. Wake up and smell Michelle’s big butt then you’ll understand the conflict we face. As far as your predictions go, the only thing that’s going to really happen is that there will be more (sadly) fatalities on both sides. But then we’re better armed and there’s a lot of us in the military and law enforcement. Either way you’ll get your butt handed to you. I’d rather do it myself to rid the world of wannabe’s like you (i know you really want to be a black Muslim thug) but revenge is in the hands of the creator. Good luck with your vendetta Bill the Frisco Kid.

  20. jwtaylor, thanks for your clarification. I was a bit rush in my answer and I stand corrected: “The Second Amendment protects the individual right to keep and bear arms”. I am not a native English speaker so it’s not always either easy or simple for me to convey a thought or an idea as it would be in my mother’s tongue.
    I agree, we both have that same right to defend ourselves and others, including the use of a firearm, as you wrote nicely in you post. The only difference is that in my case the right to keep and bear arms is not legally or constitutionally protected and I cannot exercise it as easily.

  21. So basically, an FBI management agent is opening his big mouth, speaking politically. Acting as if he is part of The Nazi S.S instead of an American Federal investigation office….I see…Maybe we need gag orders in place for public servants…Protect, Serve, uphold the US Constitutional-Bill of Rights, and SHUT YOUR GOD DAMN MOUTH !!!! Keep your politics to yourself !

  22. Although they may have the right to do so, each one makes ALL gun owners, look like idiots, thugs, wannabes. FAIL FAIL FAIL in the public’s eyes. STOP IT!!

  23. So what I can gather from all of this is,
    #1 if it’s KKK, White Nationalists, Neo-Nazis, Nazis or whatever you claim to be gather to Rally it’s a “Hate Rally”.
    #2 if your a leftist, antifa, gun grabber or a group who supports abortion and they Rally it’s considered a “Peaceful Rally”?
    How many of the KKK, White Nationalists, Neo-Nazis, Nazis or whatever start violent riots lately?
    How many riots have the left, antifa or whatever started lately?

    So tell me once again why I should not carry my AR-15 to a rally? I don’t rally but if I did I would carry my AR-15, Glock, Sig, M&P, H&K and on and on. to every rally I attend.

    FTW

  24. It’s a funny question considering that the Democrat (aka Progressive, Socialist, Marxist, Communist) mayors of these cities have been ordering their police departments to stand down. So who would let people bring AR-15’s to “hate rallies”? Apparently the Democrats will, because they won’t enforce the laws on public order, violence, etc. Or do they plan to confiscate the AR-15’s, but allow the bike locks, urine bottles, molotov cocktails, baseball bats, knives, etc.?

    From there, I can easily argue that the Democrats have caused escalation by their inaction. People went to rallies last year and got beat up by ANTIFA thugs who brought improvised weapons. They decided enough was enough and began to tool up for themselves, because American citizens aren’t supposed to get beaten up by a gang while the police watch. People are exercising their constitutional right to bear arms because there is real threat on the streets. If the Democrats don’t like them exercising that right, then maybe they should do something about the reason that people feel unsafe going to a free speech rally.

  25. It’s not about Dems or Antifas. Nazis are an existential threat to the American way of life and need to be dealt with force and prejudice like we deal with any active terror group. Letting Nazis carry weapons is like letting ISIS march with weapons in DC because it is their right – terrorists do not have 2nd Ammendment rights like citizens.

  26. I don’t get why people are treating Nazis as if they’re some kind of poor victim group and the people who show up to resist them are the villains. What the fuck is wrong with America?

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