Question of the Day: Pay Gang Bangers Not to Commit “Gun Violence”?

The Advance Peace program includes “mentorship,” “educational opportunities” and job training. The 50 Sacramentans who qualify for their AP courses (see what I did there?) must meet [unspecified] targets to earn the $1000 per month the city’s bribing offering them to not to commit “gun violence.”

The Sacramento City Council voted 9-0 to Advance Peace. But even without factoring in administrative costs, the payout cost taxpayers $600,000. Worth it? Before you decide, check out AP’s mission statement and efficacy claims below . . .

From drkfoundation.com:

Advance Peace interrupts gun violence in U.S. urban neighborhoods by providing transformational opportunities to young men involved in lethal firearm offenses and placing them in a high-touch, personalized fellowship. By working with and supporting a targeted group of individuals at the core of gun hostilities, Advance Peace bridges the gap between anti-violence programming and a hard-to-reach population at the center of violence in urban areas, thus breaking the cycle of gun hostilities and altering the trajectory of these men’s lives . . .

In 2016, Advance Peace was launched as an independent entity and the City of Richmond recorded the lowest number of firearm assaults and homicides in more than four decades: a 71% reduction in firearm assaults causing injury or death from 2007 when ONS was created.

As of December 2016, 94% of Fellows remain alive, 83% have not sustained gun-related injuries or been hospitalized since becoming Fellows; and 75% are not a suspect in a new firearm crime since becoming a Fellow.

comments

  1. avatar No one of consequence says:

    No, for moral, practical and fiscal reasons.

  2. avatar BLoving says:

    When someone is paid a salary, it’s supposed to be called “employment”. So what services are these goons providing for us other than “we won’t doo nuffin”?
    When someone requires payment to keep them from comitting a crime, it’s properly called “blackmail”. Yes it does work to stop that person from committing a crime but so does gainful employment. Put these goons to work. Real work.

    1. avatar Lost Down South says:

      Blackmail, or Protection?

      I have NEVER popped a cap in anyone. Can I get:

      – paid?
      – back pay to the beginning of my life?
      – how about l just back to when I first owed (or possessed) a gun? (age 8, so 53 yrs)

      Oh riiiiiiight, I’m law-abiding tax-payer, so i don’t get squat. Except a tax bill.

      1. avatar The Duke says:

        > Blackmail, or Protection?

        To the Mafia it’s called ‘protection’
        To the police it’s called ‘extortion’
        To the government it’s called ‘welfare’
        To the politicians it’s called ‘campaign contributions’
        To those who obey the law it’s called ‘bribery’

  3. avatar Rincoln says:

    It’s only a matter of time before criminals realize that they only need to commit “gun violence” to get signed up for free money. In other words, if you shoot someone once (and promise real hard to never do it again), you now qualify for $1k per month. I guess this is what they mean by “reducing” “gun violence”

    :/

    1. avatar Nigel the expat says:

      I haven’t shot anyone in 50 years. Where’s my back-pay?

      1. avatar Rincoln says:

        You forgot to “qualify” by shooting someone, first.

    2. avatar Jason Majors says:

      I’m not a gangbanger…yet. They should pay me $1000 per month to not become one.
      I could use that money to buy more guns.

  4. avatar BradP says:

    The movie “Idiocracy” is becoming more and more a documentary instead of a comedy…

  5. avatar uncommon_sense says:

    Pay gangbangers to not commit violence? Sure — it is called gainful employment/business.

    People who are gainfully employed or operating a business basically have neither the time nor the energy to gangbang. Pushing solutions that enable gainful employment and business operations will yield huge dividends (pun intended).

  6. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

    What an incredible waste of tax payer money.
    This is so effed up.

    1. avatar Geoff PR says:

      “What an incredible waste of tax payer money.”

      I can’t recall the details, but there was a pilot program run somewhere where they did just that, and it showed some results.

      If they want to do it with Soros money, let ’em.

      But *not* mine (or yours)…

    2. avatar California Richard says:

      I agree, it is an absolute waste. If we’re able to identify these people, then you only have to pay me $.15 (for “operating costs”) per person, and I can make sure they will never commit an other violent crime for the rest of OUR lives…. you down PWRSURGE? We can save tax payers $999.85 per month and won’t even be a reoccuring cost!

  7. avatar kevin says:

    Capital idea! But why limit it to gangbangers? I would happily accept $1k per month to (continue to) refrain from committing crimes. My wife and kids would accept that money as well. We could use the extra $60k per year, believe me, and it would be cheaper than prosecuting us for all the crimes we aren’t committing.

  8. avatar dlj95118 says:

    …ahhhh, California.

    Taxing drinking water. Giving benefits to illegals. Paying ‘bangers.

    This is my surprised face.

  9. avatar The Gray Poseur says:

    Much of the local Liberal game-plan is to funnel taxpayer money into “reparations” for the “community”, through various non-profits, grants, programs, etc.

    My philosophy: I know the Liberal mind involves a true mental disease. Let the Liberals play their expensive games and live far away from Liberals.

    1. avatar Geoff PR says:

      “Let the Liberals play their expensive games and live far away from Liberals.”

      I’d really rather they live as far away from *me* as possible…

      1. avatar The Gray Poseur says:

        I agree, but they are like locusts. They swarm. Fortunately in fairly well-concentrated areas that the rest of us are simply forced to avoid.

        An interesting 3-D map of red vs. blue areas is here:

        http://metrocosm.com/election-2016-map-3d/

        1. avatar Geoff PR says:

          “I agree, but they are like locusts. They swarm.”

          And we can’t call the ‘Orkin Man’.

          *sobbing*

          I have have had that map bookmarked from shortly after the election, it’s a neat resource…

  10. avatar Warlocc says:

    I’ve never shot anyone. I want 1k a month. That’s more than some actual jobs pay.

  11. avatar Geoff PR says:

    They’ll take the money and keep on bangin’.

    If the Leftists want to do it with ‘Joyce Foundation’ (IE – *not* taxpayer money) I say let ’em.

    But *not* MY money…

  12. avatar Joshua Graham says:

    We do. It’s called welfare.

  13. avatar Ironhead says:

    Sure….. this sounds like a great idea.
    Social extortion. Or protection money if you will.
    So what happens if they take the money and then get caught committing a crime? Do they have to pay it back?
    Is the money tax free?
    Cause $1000 a month aint nuffin to bangers.
    This my friends is what happens when the inmates run the asylum.
    Put up some rows of chain link and barbed wire fences around the border and call it the california asylum.

  14. avatar DaveL says:

    So after less than year in operation, they want credit for a reduction in crime that took place since 2007. In that one year, 25%* of the people they actually paid $12k just to not commit crimes are suspected of new firearms crimes. They don’t want to say how many are suspected of other crimes. 17%* have been shot, 6% are now dead. I have to wonder what the death rate was before you paid them – 6% mortality in one year puts the gangster half-life around 11 years by my calculations, which isn’t so hot.

    *When your population size is exactly 50, you should have no odd percentages for anything, unless we’re counting half-people.

  15. avatar anonymoose says:

    Pay them with bullets to the head.

  16. avatar dph says:

    The Mafia has a racket like this. It’s called protection money. They are not going to like having anyone else muscling in on their turf. Also, I don’t think a grand a month to not be a banger is gonna fly. These guys are probably making more than that in a week if they have anything going at all. “As of December 2016, 94% of Fellows remain alive”, is this a bug or a feature?

  17. avatar Kenneth G Maiden says:

    Yup, that should do it. Crime has now ended in commie Sacramento. Close the jails.

  18. avatar Jon says:

    Politicians tried something similar with the Madi Army in Iraq. Now we have ISIS…

  19. avatar Joe R. says:

    Pay Gang Bangers Not to Commit “Gun Violence”?

    They / we already paid many of their mothers to make them.

  20. avatar Sam I Am says:

    This poses an some interesting questions. For instance, gangers can make $1000 per day on the street. Are they likely to trade that for $1000 per month? Or,….are they likely to merely add the $1000 per month to their normal “earnings”, while hoping they don’t get caught?

    1. avatar SouthAl says:

      Interesting questions that have already been answered. I am sure there is some sound research in the field of behavioral economics supporting many of the conclusions here. Even decades old research on basic reinforcement and behavioral matching shows this to be a dumbass practice.

      To oversimplify, effort will be distributed according to payoff. They will collect this money AND engage in behavior they are familiar with that is more lucrative.

  21. avatar Lewis Chatellier Jr says:

    that’s some bullshit more then I get for SSD and I never committed a crime… Get a freaking job stop being thug and be a real man or woman…

  22. avatar Andrew Lias says:

    This is the stupidest thing ever, lets just subsidize their criminal enterprises. That has been proven repeatedly.

  23. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

    If we are to remunerate people for merely acting (instead of actually being) civilized, then perhaps it is time for us white males to show these idiots what real, industrialized savagery looks like – and then ask to be paid 10 to 100 times as much as these dazzling urbanite amateurs.

  24. avatar Sian says:

    It’s pragmatic as hell. Of course it’s unpopular.

    If it works, (and this is the important part, it’s gotta work) so what if a few dozen bangers are beating the system? At least they aren’t banging. So long as it promises severe and immediate penalties if they decide the lifestyle is more appealing than the paycheck.

    1. avatar The Gray Poseur says:

      That’s the problem Sian. There are never any repercussions, accountability or follow-up. Simply obfuscation, money changing hands and doubling down when the results suck. This is why Liberalism is a mental disorder. Doing the same $hit over and over while expecting different results. Well actually, they really don;t want different results. It’s all about the feelings, which are improved with money. Somebody else’s money.

    2. avatar CLarson says:

      How about we just throw these criminals into prison for life. I’ll happily sign that check.

      1. avatar The Gray Poseur says:

        Yes, that’s what the non-liberal localities do. Because it works. And pisses off the liberals.

    3. avatar Hank says:

      They won’t just stop. What’ll happen is, something similar as to when the French tried to pay the Vikings to leave Paris alone…

  25. avatar Jason says:

    I’d rather they focus attention on something like this than on enacting even more onerous gun control measures here. This is California, I’ll take what I can get. I’m also all for paying to just give the homeless housing, especially if that housing could maybe be located in the middle of nowhere. It would be worth the cost to just not have them jumping out of darkened alleys at me demanding change, or turning every patch of public greenspace in the city into a goddamn superfund site.

    Of course, I am completely the type who would, given the opportunity, throw money at all of life’s irritations just to get them out of my sight. If I hit the lottery to the tune of that recent powerball jackpot, a good portion of that money would be spent on paying obnoxious people in my life to never be within a 10 mile radius of me ever again.

    I never said I wasn’t awful!

  26. avatar patrulje68 says:

    Danegeld

    1. avatar CLarson says:

      Yeah, eventually $1000 is not going to be enough….

      1. avatar MarkF says:

        Thanks to Rudyard Kipling.

        And that is called paying the Dane-geld;
        But we’ve proved it again and again,
        That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld
        You never get rid of the Dane.

  27. avatar John Thomas says:

    im drowning in buzzwords here. what the hell is “high-touch, personalized fellowship”?

    1. avatar DaveL says:

      I think Plato wrote something about it, in his Republic.

    2. avatar MarkF says:

      A leftist hand job?

  28. avatar H says:

    Actually if you have kids you pay them an allowance. They learn to earn. These youths have not had this experience. The fact that they will accept the offer which includes jail time if anyone messes up and earn far less than they were earning illegally shows they want to change.

    Upper middle class and middle class kids get and clamor for paid and unpaid internships. They are ways into the job market.

    My question. If you don’t like this program do you have a better suggestion? The Armed Forces taught us to not criticize unless you have a better fix.

    Cost: Very reasonable. Add up the costs of emergency responders to one homicide and you will see this is a bargain.

    Do you want these people to be productive members of society?

    This program isn’t new. It has a startling success rate. Lowest figures area 40% reduction in homicides in 18 months.

    You’ll be elated to hear that the Obama White House was approached for two million to expand the program. This was during the Pres debates. The White House said…….”No.”
    Reason? “No political will for this. Only for Newtown Sandyhook type events.” Meanwhile Hillary and Barack quoted the death by gun numbers the next week’s! Without the inner city gun deaths the gun control folks have very little “ammo.” Remove the suicides you got nothing to discuss.

    So resist a program that works and join with the liberals who don’t have our best interests at heart.

    1. avatar BradP says:

      I am comfortably middle class and raised 4 kids and they never got an allowance. They got a safe place to sleep, meals, etc…. They never went without “needs” but if they wanted something I made them get creative on ways to earn money around the house (over and above their normal chores). They are all now upstanding adults.

    2. avatar Hank says:

      1. How about actually having them earn the money somewhat? Like community service?

      2. They won’t stop banging. They’ll simply use this money to further their exploits.

  29. avatar Ralph says:

    I’m law abiding and don’t commit violent crimes, but I’m willing to start on my new criminal career. And when I do, they’ll pay me and I’ll stop and become law abiding again. And if they stop paying me, I’ll go back to committing crimes and then they’ll pay me again.

    This could be great!

  30. avatar Adub says:

    Hang ’em. That’ll save $600k a year for less than $100 in rope. I’ll even donate the lumber for the gallows!

  31. avatar little horn says:

    well shit, by this logic my wife should be paying me not to cheat.

  32. avatar CLarson says:

    The problem with incentivizing violence is that you get more violence. Stupid ideas like this are going to tear our country apart when more young men realize working hard is a sucker’s game when all their money is taxed to go to fucked up baby mammas and their low IQ thug baby daddies.

    1. avatar Warlocc says:

      That’s another thing. Why am I working hard at a regular job, paying taxes that pay criminals?

      Maybe I’ll just get an RFID reader and start stealing and selling credit card info instead. More money, less hassle.

  33. avatar Amfivena says:

    Nothing says fine, upstanding, young man like ‘he’s not a suspect in any new firearm crimes’.

    I’ll have to try that on my mother the next time she asks how the grand kids are doing… ‘They’re doing great! I’m pretty sure they are not a suspect in any new criminal investigations.’

    Classic case of if you can’t be successful, redefine success, problem solved! Lower expectations for your voter base enough and they can’t be disappointed come election day.

  34. avatar Specialist38 says:

    So they set up the hooligans with a pre-made protection racket.

    What could possibly go wrong?

  35. avatar Jim Bullock says:

    I have no problem with paying folks $1,000 / month if the [unspecified] targets (sic) include enough useful, relevant work. I have even less of a problem if the folks are *credited* with, say $1,500 / month, with $500 / month then assessed as fees for the mentoring and fellowhship services they are getting.

  36. avatar BierceAmbrose says:

    Well, as semi-celebrity spokesthings, I have no problem if their contract includes a morals clause, like “don’t be shooting people.”

  37. avatar Anymouse says:

    I’ll agree to not commit gun violence for $500. Since I haven’t committed it before, they get a bargain price and can make their stats look better.

  38. avatar Southern Cross says:

    This reminds me of a story I heard about a UN campaign in Africa to trade AK47s for trucks. A person with an AK walks up and says to the U.N. official he will take truck, and the official’s watch, wallet, jewellery, and shoes, and will keep the AK47 as well.

  39. avatar Hank says:

    Throughout all of human history, has paying the enemy to leave us alone ever worked?

    1. avatar H says:

      That maybe why you can’t see it working.
      “They” aren’t your enemy.
      “You” (whoever this applies to) hate it when Feinstein, Schumer, Bloomberg, Watts etc. want to take our guns away. Yet you believe that these people want something different in life than you do. “Your” people behaved heinously when marginalized from Scotland to Appalachia.

      Take a moment and consider do poor people want good food, life, schools, and opportunity. Is it taking anything from you to hold that the American Way is for all of its citizens? Did they send your job to China? Did they make medicines too expensive? Do poor people import drugs? Do they send our boys to foreign countries so they can control heroin and oil? Did they steal your 401K? Did they patent corn and soybeans and make farmers buy new from them every year? Did they sell the patent to Bayer? If Bayer sells it to China we may have no food in a year. Did poor people in Appalachia or Chicago do this?

      Follow the Money. As long as you focus on the real poor you won’t look at who is making the money off your sweat. Wake up look around and see if you are hating on people you are told to. It’s working for the rich. Who is hiring the illegals? Poor Negroes and Whites? Wake up.

      I’m not excusing bad behavior. The program isolates who the bad actors are. Nationwide they are 1/2 to 1% of inner city residents. The rest are no fans of those people. I was a foster parent for CYA youth offenders. My association with police, social workers, schools, and parole officers allows me to speak from experience.

      To our point. Clear this up and Shannon/Bloomberg etc. will have no numbers to use to promote gun control.

      1. avatar Sprocket says:

        “’They’ aren’t your enemy.”

        Oh yes they are. They are violent dim-witted savages that will parasitize productive society till they shuffle off this mortal coil. They will spawn more of the same which we will be on the hook for as well. Programs such as this simply ensure a steady supply of criminals to victimize those of us who can somehow make it through the day without committing a violent crime. If you want to spend $1000 of tax payer money on something, use it to sterilize these mutts.

      2. avatar Hank says:

        Dude, I work with these types of people every, single, day. It’s my career. These dudes can make 20 grand on a good week of dealing. Ain’t none of them gonna stop for no 1 grand a month. You can bring up all the social arguments you want. The fact is money talks and bullshit walks. Capitalism will always beat out socialism, because it goes along with human nature.

  40. avatar Icabod says:

    Here’s how to do this and call it a “success.”
    First, define “gang banger” only in vague terms.
    Second, pick people that can be only loosely labeled as a “gang banger.”
    Third, have a program that supports them. One that is significantly more then what the average “gang banger” can get.
    Last, don’t have a control group. The last is most important as you don’t want a comparison. After all, what if the control group had 95% stay alive?
    What also isn’t shown is how many dropped out or were removed from the program.
    As teacher we used to joke about starting a charter school. We’d pick and chose students (rejecting problem kids) and enforce school rule (kick out any trouble maker) there was no way we wouldn’t be a success.

  41. avatar Nat Turner says:

    Only if you are paying white supremacist, neo-Nazis, neo-Confederates, right-wing Christian extremist and white nationalist to not commit gun violence and domestic terrorism.

    1. avatar Hank says:

      Damn. He went there. Good one.

  42. avatar Blain says:

    You have three reasons to buy
    I only have one not to, I can’t afford one

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