Question of the Day: National Reciprocity. Still Hopeful?

In the video below, gun rights crusader John Stossel chronicles the sad stories of good people caught-up in bad laws: gun owners jailed for their ignorance of Empire State gun laws. If Republicans could get National Reciprocity passed, it would eliminate most (but by no means not all) of the dangers of carrying a firearm across state lines. At the moment . . .

national concealed carry reciprocity bills are on hold — as the President and his party [sic] tackle larger legislative initiatives. A process that doesn’t seem to be going all that well.

Sigh. The possibility of the Hearing Protection Act removing silencers from NFA paperwork and expense, the prospect of national reciprocity, the potential for a Supreme Court case to liberate millions of Americans from [what are effectively] gun bans — they all had The People of the Gun hot and bothered (in a good way).

Are you still optimistic that any of that will happen?

comments

  1. avatar Echo5Bravo says:

    No. No, I am not. Those asshats in Congress could’t agree on how to order lunch much less pass any legislation.

    1. avatar Joel says:

      I never had much hope in the beginning. Steam engines don’t produce cold tap water.

    2. avatar Jake says:

      Not a priority for Congress, not a priority for the President. Trump sent me a survey to rank a long list of policy priorities. Nothing remotely related to gun rights were even on the long list to be ranked.

  2. avatar MamaLiberty says:

    “…a legal permit to carry a handgun…”

    Close, but no cigar. Wisconsin still doesn’t get it.

    1. avatar Ken says:

      Simmer down, that sign ain’t real. Plenty of similar photoshop versions out there of just about every gun-friendly state. Google “state welcome signs”, look at images and you’ll find all sorts.

      1. avatar MLee says:

        Manipulated image and not very well done at that. I’d hate to use a term like “Photoshop” because you can create a vanishing point with Photoshop. As such, anybody who is adept with that program could do better. A big give away that the image is altered is the fact that the original image was photographed at an angle and not straight on. As a result, the letters on the sign will be smaller as the distance of the letters from the image source increase. In this image, the word WISCONSIN, the W is slightly larger than the final N.
        As such, the rest of the sign should also show the same result . Many image manipulation programs are fully capable of creating that image technique (keystoning) but with this image, the technique wasn’t available or wasn’t wasn’t utilized and that illustrates how amateurishly it was done.

        1. avatar Ken says:

          MLee, as much as they probably don’t like it, I think “photoshop” has become a generic term out in the masses, much like kleenex, and the like.

      2. avatar MamaLiberty says:

        As may be, it’s the sentiment that I object to, not the sign. Far too many people seem to think that only those with a “permit’ are legitimate carriers. And some of those are ready to throw everyone else under the bus. This “national reciprocity” thing IS THE BUS we’ll be crushed under. Once the feds have nationwide “permission” from you all to regulate this thing, the noose will tighten. Ready for a “national” permit system? Ready for a long new list of “prohibited persons?”

        Look out for the federal bus, people.

        1. avatar Baldwin says:

          Exactly. Always check your six before engaging.

        2. avatar JDS says:

          If liberals think asking for ID to vote is a violation of civil rights then I’m all but certain requiring I ask permission and pay a tax to carry arms is unconstitutional. I don’t want the gov thinking it has the authority to grant me rights. It never has, and never will in my book.

    2. avatar Hank says:

      Actually open carry in WI requires no permit, and never has.

      1. avatar MamaLiberty says:

        And that has little or nothing to do with the topic. 🙂 But I have no doubt that the feds will fix that quickly after they gain full control of every state.

      2. avatar binder says:

        Be very very careful about open carry in Wisconsin. You status changes the moment you get into a vehicle.

  3. avatar Weskyvet says:

    Still optimistic we could see this stuff come to pass AFTER midterms. Just gotta clear out Ryan, McConnell, and McCain and replace with ACTUAL Republicans that have a freaking spine and will back up all the trash they talked back when dems actually had power instead of layin down and letting the SJW / “liberal” crowd continue to dictate how they should govern.

    1. avatar Missouri_Mule says:

      Republicans with spines are called haters and obstructionists: Ted Cruz, Rand Paul. Feel free to add names.

      1. avatar Weskyvet says:

        basically any Republican that doesn’t fight for a spot under Pelosi’s desk would fit in that category.

        Sadly though it would seem we still have some Republicans stuck in the Obama era mantra of adapting positions and policies to “steal” Democrat voters from the Democrats.

      2. avatar Nanashi says:

        If you think Ted Cruz is worth keeping, you haven’t paid attention to his acts. Grassley-Cruz was an attempt to deprivatize medical records and give the ATF loads of money with the only requirement be they don’t conduct more, already illegal, Fast and Furious plots. His campaign website tried to spin that as being “pro-second amendment”, conviently lacking any links to the actual legislation.

        1. avatar Weskyvet says:

          I don’t know why but Cruz has always struck me as a bit of an a-hole.

  4. avatar Missouri_Mule says:

    HR 38 has 208 co-sponsors; yet we can’t get a vote. We only need 218 to pass the House. Paul Ryan is sandbagging us. John Lott estimates there are 16.5 million concealed permit holders and DJT holding his pen, but we can’t get this passed.

  5. avatar CLarson says:

    It’s not going to happen. The best we can hope for is silencer deregulation to slip through attached to some must pass legislation.

  6. avatar Ed Rogers says:

    About as much hope as for the Hearing Protection Act…

  7. avatar Vincent says:

    Kill National Reciprocity. If you don’t live in a free state you can move.

    1. avatar Missouri_Mule says:

      Vincent – I assume your are not a fan of 42 U.S. Code § 1983 – Civil action for deprivation of rights either.

    2. avatar Ed says:

      Problem is ,some of us that live in “good” states might want to travel to “bad” states and demand the same freedoms wr have at home. Isn’t this what the civil war was fought over, the limitation of the states to govern themselves?

    3. avatar Hank says:

      Hell no. It’s the MFing union. The constitution applies everywhere. Regardless what the states say.

  8. avatar Darkman says:

    It’s time to start the process to Repeal and Replace every Republican incumbent up for reelection in 2018. We need to do our part in cleaning out the swamp. Send a clear message to all Republicans in Washington D.C. Either get off your ass and pass the legislation we want passed or we will kick it out of DC. They always forget who they work for and who gave them the opportunity to be in DC until they need our vote. Stop voting based on their promises. Look at what they have done before allowing them to return to DC. Find people to Run against them in 2018. Get your hands dirty and work to get them elected. It is up to US to make sure these people do what we want not the other way around. Take back control of Washington DC at the ballot box so we won’t need to use the bullet box. Keep Your Powder Dry…

    1. avatar Weskyvet says:

      +100

  9. avatar Geoff PR says:

    About two weeks back, my favorite finance (and odd-ball political) blog, the ‘Zero Hedge’ had an article on *why* ‘National Reciprocity’ may not be something we really want, at the Federal level.

    It makes for an interesting (and sobering) read:

    “The problem, however, is that the drive for mandated reciprocity is essentially a drive to increase federal involvement and federal control in the realm of gun policy.”

    And:

    “Thus, it might sound nice to put the federal government in charge of protecting gun rights, but the potential downside is immense given that federal policy can change easily, and then be imposed nationwide.”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-17/decentralize-gun-laws

    Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it…

    1. avatar Mad Max says:

      The best hope would be a Supreme Court ruling that results in national reciprocity. Hopefully, they get around to it in the next few years.

      1. avatar Geoff PR says:

        “The best hope would be a Supreme Court ruling that results in national reciprocity.”

        Even *then*, the change isn’t permanent.

        We’re about to get a favorable change in the court’s composition in our favor, however, 10-20 years later, the court’s bias could turn Progressive again.

        As in outright *hostile* to gun rights.

        It seems there is something to that old saying about ‘The Price of Liberty’ being eternal vigilance…

        1. avatar Mad Max says:

          Can I just get 40 years of Constitional carry and then let the youngins’ worry about later?

    2. avatar Jim Bullock says:

      If you like ZeroHedge, read Samizdata.net, and maybe The Manhattan Contrarian. Dealing with skepticism strengthens your own thinking. Ideally, you ought to be your own skeptic. These days, even entertaining the notion that you have to make your argument at all is a radical act.. (With apologies to Orwell.)

    3. avatar Missouri_Mule says:

      Geoff & Max – I will take a different argument. We already have decentralized gun laws. That’s why I can go to Walmart, buy a box of hollow points, load my “high capacity” semi auto and stuff it under my shirt without the Missouri government ever knowing I exist. In New Jersey I go straight to prison for 10 years.

      HR 38 is NOT national CCW licensing. It is about enforcing a fundamental right. see 42 U.S. Code § 1983 – Civil action for deprivation of rights

      The Bill of Rights do apply to the states see McDonald v. Chicago 561 U.S. 742 (2010) per the 14th Amendment.

      Ryan McMaken is an economist and political scientist (probably a good one since he write for Von Mises) but not a gun lawyer.

      P.S. Max, we need the S. Ct, the law and tar & pitchforks to keep our rights.

      1. avatar Mad Max says:

        I have a lot of friends in New Jersey. Even if a national reciprocity law passes and the Supreme Court rules in our favor, we’ll probably still need to raise a militia and go to Soviet Jersey to enforce the law.

    4. avatar Bill says:

      Good point. Modern day Federal involvement typically restricts activity. My State’s Constitution reads “The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned.”

      Of course, there are many legal precedents that do restrict carry and ownership in varying degrees. The most surprising is: In Commonwealth v. McKown, a court held that a Pennsylvania resident could not carry a concealed firearm without a valid Pennsylvania concealed carry license, even if he had a concealed carry license from a state that has reciprocity with Pennsylvania.

      So as long as you did not establish residency, McKown would not apply? I guess because the county did not get their to wet their beaks collecting the license to carry fee.

      1. avatar Mad Max says:

        $20 isn’t much of a fee, though. They got to pay for the deputy it clerk, the computers, and the cameras.

        I think it would be cheaper to go Constitional carry.

        I wished my local state senator and representative would read the “shall not be questioned” part.

  10. avatar BierceAmbrose says:

    Stossel: a consumer advocate reporter who becomes a staunch libertarian after he looks at government from the same perspective.

    What could that possibly mean?

  11. avatar Michael Bane says:

    No. The sons of bitches in Washington sold us out again. Just like Charlie Brown and the football…

    Michael B

  12. avatar Chris T in KY says:

    I trust President Trump. I lost faith in the US Congress a long time ago. The best way to get what he wants is to shut down the federal government. They are all terrified of that. I would like to visit family and friends in slave state. Ensuring my civil rights are protected when I travel would be wonderful, if President Trump could do that. He would succeeded where President Kennedy failed.
    For those who don’t know the history blacks who traveled across state lines were attacked by mobs of people. The local government did nothing to stop it. Sound familiar doesn’t it???

  13. avatar Ralph says:

    If (and it’s a big “if”) every Republican voted for national reciprocity and suppressors, and if (another big “if”) a few Democrats also approved of both, the Senate would still be three or four votes short of cloture if (not a big “if”) the Demons filibuster.

    So, neither one can come to pass. Never could. Never would. Not as long as Bloomberg and Soros make the rules. Which they do.

    1. avatar IdahoBoy says:

      I agree, up to the point where you blame Bloomberg and Soros. If you want National Reciprocity, you have to win the hearts and minds of Law Enforcement first, and then Congress and the Courts will follow.

      I would love National Reciprocity, particularly if it came with some standards, like classroom instruction, range time, and a thorough background check. And I know it’s always easy to trot out the usual “bad guys” as an explanation for why we don’t have it.

      But just a few decades ago, my supposedly gun-friendly Ada county in Idaho was a “may-issue” county where few if any permits were actually issued. Our County Sheriff used to routinely deny permits, on the basis that crime would go up.

      Idaho is now an entirely “shall-issue” state because Law Enforcement recognizes that concealed carry reduces crime overall, and encourages responsible gun ownership. That progression did not happen overnight, and neither will National Reciprocity.

      1. avatar JDS says:

        I would love National Reciprocity, particularly if it came with some standards…
        I would love a voter standards test.
        With classroom instruction, American History, ethics, etc. and a thorough background check to prove citizenship before anyone can vote.

  14. avatar Lib lurker says:

    If republicans passed national concealed carry (aka the constitution) then there would be fewer, if any, reasons to vote republican.

    They will never pass it but they will use it to get votes and then lower taxes for long as it works, which looks like it will be a long time

  15. avatar Nanashi says:

    The best way to get it done is mid-term primaries. Make sure everyone is against Ryan and McConnel as well as. To make sure they’re actually pro-second amendment, press them on introducing new legislation ideas that would give most politicians an aneurysm: NFA repeal, minors buying guns, ending the LEOPA, ect.

    Get these questions in debates too. Force public answers .

  16. avatar Jeff K says:

    I’m good in 40 states, carry in 2 of the other 10 anyhow, avoid the other 8 like the plague. National CC recip would be good.

  17. avatar kap says:

    never happen; too many obstructionist Democrats would loose their power base when people found out they didn’t need these pervert’s of justice. the only political base they have is gun control and and backing immoral laws, and condone insurrectionist deconstruction!

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