The Second Amendment and those who exercise it are just like the country itself. E Pluribus Unum – Out of many, One. Americans who fight for, preserve, and defend freedom come in all shapes, sizes, and colors.

Today, I have the pleasure of introducing a fellow fighter for freedom. A fellow gun owner and proud American by the name of Erin Smith who wrote the following. For those who don’t know, Erin Smith is a transgender gun owner and conservative living in the heart of San Francisco, California. Yes, the same San Francisco where Nancy Pelosi and Gavin Newsom live . . .

Erin Smith writes:

To be a gun-owning, conservative trans woman living in the leftist mecca of San Francisco is to exist as an apparent contradiction, and the incredulous reactions I get whenever I find myself discussing politics are an endless reminder of that fact.

How can I stand with people that seek to interfere with my life by denying me legal recognition and enshrining discrimination? That fight to keep me from using the correct bathroom? That seem to ignore my inherent worth as a person?

These are just some of the queries I have fielded, and to be frank in the beginning they actually sounded halfway reasonable and originating from legitimate concern. And while my political compass has always pointed right, I will freely admit the needle occasionally wavered when I pondered these things.

But living in a swirling nexus of ever-intensifying leftist political violence has exposed the deceit, and watching right-leaning friends be assaulted while attending political rallies, some shunned by their social circles, and others cowed from openly expressing even moderately diverging opinions has only intensified my feelings.

It quickly became clear that Leftist talking points aimed at my demographic only tempt when stripped of context, and a more holistic view illuminated their moral hollowness and intellectual bankruptcy.

The Left warns us of bigoted evangelicals, while excusing Islamic radicals and ignoring transphobic rhetoric from radical feminists.

They promise bathrooms and baked cakes, and destroy property rights and objective law. They give tolerance and preferred pronouns, and crush dialogue and muzzle free expression. They tell us “our body our choice,” then seek to deny us the means to protect either the body or the choice. They demand our pistols in exchange for platitudes, then have the audacity to feel entitled to our vote.

I won’t try to pretend the Right is perfect, because it isn’t. But in my case there’s been a surprising open-mindedness and intrinsic recognition of my individuality that I’ve never consistently seen from the Left, manifested from people and places I never expected like the gun community.

As a regular student in firearms training classes and a member of several gun-centric discussion forums, I’m fully aware the gun community has a decided rightward tilt.

That fact, combined with Leftist rhetoric about the endemic intolerance I could expect if I tried to live openly, left me briefly considering just walking away instead of risking the vitriol.

But I decided to stay, partly due to pure stubbornness , but also a suspicion the apparent hostility on the Right was mostly reactionary.

What I quickly noticed was the manner conservatives responded when approached with a modicum of courtesy and respect. Sure there were a sprinkling of obnoxious reactions, but most were more than happy to reciprocate; many in fact later admitted my calm and measured responses to the haters as being a huge factor in changing their minds.

But even with the ones that told me they didn’t agree with my transition, they often were at least courteous about disagreeing, along with freely admitting I had the right to do it.

In the end, what I appreciated most was the fact the positive reactions had to be real; there was nothing for them to gain by being supportive, no frowning SJW to avoid, ready to shriek at the slightest breach of the Narrative.

They were seeing me as a complex individual with many facets, and even if there might be one or two aspects they disagreed with, they were more than willing to overlook them in favor of the majority they respected.

I contrast with the Left, where multiple times I’ve witnessed even a minor digression from orthodoxy suffice to be cast into outer darkness. In hindsight, so much I was told ended up being posture and artifice.

This experience is exemplified by my recent experience at a Portland free speech rally. We departed the event location in a group for protection from Antifa violence, but they still followed us hurling insults and threats.

The scene was actually bizarre and illuminating; a racially mixed group of free speech advocates, with two transgender members and multiple blacks, hispanics, and at least one Samoan, stalked and subjected to loud accusations of being white supremacists and Nazis by a masked and menacing, almost exclusively white group uniformly dressed in black. They gave no indication they comprehended the irony.

To sum it up, neither side is perfect for me. But there’s only one side that displays concern for the Western civilization that makes my current life and very existence possible, supports my right to access tools to protect myself, and doesn’t seem interested in using political violence to trap me on their voting plantation, humanity and individuality denied me and reduced to a posing dummy. That’s really no choice at all.

Of course you, reader, have already taken Erin’s own words and understand these truths. That the people of the gun, the defenders of the Second Amendment aren’t hate-filled bigots, phobics, and racists. We are actually understanding, polite, respectful, law-abiding and open-minded people.

We understand that freedom means that there will be different people exercising their constitutional rights. Furthermore we embrace that fact. It is the gun grabbers who are closed-minded and hate those who exercise true freedom. The American Dream is that of individual liberty and personal freedom.

One of those freedoms is to be who you want to be. In Erin’s case, she’s able to be who she is: a conservative gun-owning American who happens to be a transgender.

In the liberal gun-grabbing mindset, to correct her badthink, Erin would be forced to believe the often repeated lies that gun ownership is wrong and that being reliant on one’s self for personal defense is abnormal. But because of the the moral fabric that comprises American society, Erin is able to truly be herself.

She can be an ambassador of the Second Amendment. In San Francisco, of all places. And here’s a little secret: Erin isn’t alone. Our country is filled with all manner of Erins.

Remember that American freedom comes in every color, shape and stripe you can think of. Folks like Erin make up organizations like Pink Pistols, Jews for the Preservation of Firearm Ownership, the Second Amendment Foundation and so many more. They’re our fellow gun owners and friends. They’re our family members and allies.

Freedom and American liberty are for everyone and the gun-grabbing left will stop at nothing to make us all equal in a despotic lowest common denominator of conformist misery, a collective collection of nothingness. People like Erin help ensure that will never happen.

359 Responses to Erin Smith: Gun Hero of the Day

  1. Gender Dysphoria is a mental illness.

    TTAG propping up the mentally ill as a pillar of the gun community is not helping.

    • As far as I can tell, she *is* a pillar of the gun community.

      I’m curious….given that you’ve managed to diagnose her as being mentally ill by simply reading her essay (quite a feat, that), do you at least acknowledge her RKBA….or do you wish to see her disarmed?

      • We wish to see him in a psychiatric ward where he can get the help he needs. Genital mutilation is not a laughing matter and is in no way normal. The question of 2nd amendment rights for people in a mental institution is rather moot.

        • So you are advocating that the State disarm her by force.

          You’ve picked a rather odd place to espouse such an opinion. Just sayin’…..

        • No, I’m advocating that he be involuntarily committed to an in-patient psych facility. I don’t think anybody in their right mind thinks that committed mental patients or prisoners have 2nd amendment rights.

        • “I’m advocating that he be involuntarily committed to an in-patient psych facility.”

          I’m curious….do you feel the same way about gay people, or do you only want to involuntarily commit the million(ish) or so Americans who self-identify as transgendered?

        • If they are a danger to themselves or others? Yes. All gender dysphorics are a danger to at least themselves.

        • You’re as bad as the leftists. What she does has no affect on you and yet you wish to control her thoughts and actions simply because you disagree with them.

        • Re: “We wish to see him in a psychiatric ward where he can get the help he needs. ”

          Well, all sorts of authoritarian “we”s want all sorts of things for other people–and individual rights are the protections we have from those “we”s.

          Erin’s decisions on gender–which you choose to label “gender dysphoria”–are properly none of my business, nor of yours.

          They are certainly no reason for you to justify removing her freedoms. Understand this: if she fought to prevent you from imposing this “involuntary commit[ment]” you advocate, you’d be the bad guy in the fight.

        • I’m with you pwrserge on this one.

          If chopping off perfectly working body parts doesn’t define mental illness then we’re definately entered into “Crazy Town”.

        • I’m sure ya’ll are the same people that go “I can do what I want, it’s my land.”
          Get over it. She/he can do what they want with their body and you can’t do shit about it.
          But go ahead and call for more government control, just like the liberals who want to control the guns…

        • It’s thousands of these nuts NOT millions. More progtards disinformation and rationalization. And yes, they are mental. Damn few chop it off as they are just full of BS. Until amputation is completed, stay out of the girls restroom freak.

        • So what? It has no bearing on her right to keep and bear arms, as codified in the Bill Of Rights. Unless one is adjudicated as mentally deficient by a JUDGE, no one can touch their rights. Not you, nor anyone else.

          I have PTSD. That’s a mental illness. Should I, or any of my brother Soldiers, Sailors and Marines have their rights stripped away solely on the basis of being a little fucky? No? Then neither should Erin Smith.

        • The true types of crime are physically harming another person. Theft, damage of another person’s property. Destroying another person’s ability to provide for themselves through intentional lies (libel). These are the things a person ought to be locked up over. At such time as they’ve completed their sentence, they should have the ability to appeal to have their rights restored.

          If you think being trans is a mental illness, that’s great. I don’t care enough about the issue to argue. But to say that because they’re a harm to themselves they ought to be committed and lose their rights? Sounds like you support those Extreme Risk Protection Orders right? Gotta have the government step in and protect them from themselves right? No need for a trial, no need to be present to defend themselves. Long as you’ve decided they’re a danger to themselves, who really cares if they’ve hurt anyone, or committed a crime of any type?!?

          Military members have higher than average rates of suicide too! Let’s not forget to disarm them! Afterall, many in government believe that vets are mentally ill after all the killing they’ve done. Let’s give government the power to disarm anyone they deem is mentally ill, or a danger to themselves. Again, no trial necessary!

          Pwerserge, your hypocrisy and double standards are pretty goddamn overwhelming.

      • Being Gay, is not a mental illness (at least not one deserving of psychiatric care) The person is attracted to people of another sex. It probably will be discovered to be a reversible treatable thing in the future as we crack the what makes human beings, human beings.

        That said, Transgendered people believe they were born the wrong sex. They’re suicide rates are off the chart before and after sex reassignment surgery. I do strongly believe it is a mental illness, that we will be able to cure some day.

        And THAT SAID, who cares what I believe. the 2nd amendment applies to them as much as anyone. So go go gun hero of the day, Erin Smith.

        • Kudos to Green2Blue30!

          Has this person committed a crime and then used their mental health as a mitigating reason to not be found guilty? No….

          “…Unless one is adjudicated as mentally deficient by a JUDGE, no one can touch their rights. Not you, nor anyone else.”

          That decision, made with good cause and all due process rendered in a court of law, is the only way we can or should ever seek to disable a person’s rights.

          Let’s leave the whole presumption of guilt until proven innocent thing to the bigots over at CSGV and MDA.

        • Homosexuality was classified as a mental illness by the American Psychiatry Institute until 1974. Another fruit of the 1960s counterculture.

        • Transgender is a misnomer. No one can change their gender. Your gender was determined at conception, it is in your chromosomes. You can no more change your gender than you can change your DNA. Any biologist will confirm this.

        • Actually your sex is generally assigned at birth. Gender is a social construct.

    • So is homosexuality, but people live with it, and every person needs their right to self-defense, free speech, free assembly, etc.

      • The support of Transgenderism leads to the current rage of child abuse by parents who provide sex blocking hormones to their children.

    • Pull the log out of your own eye before you examine the speck in someone else’s. You dont live in that person’s shoes and you have no hope of ever understading what it is like to feel the way that person does. Your comment is useless. If you are going to judge someone as mentally ill but dont know them then you should accept the fact that you are a sinner and that you deserve hell just like the rest of us. Compassion and love for people is the only way to live this life. There is no room for that kind of stupidity.

      • I don’t care how he feels the same way I don’t care how a schizophrenic feels. Both are obviously a danger to themselves and others. Locking them up in a mental hospital is just plain common sense.

        • I disagree. Gender dysphoria, just like homosexuality, might be a mental illness, or just the way some people really are wired by nature, but it does not make them automatically a danger to themselves or others.

          In stead of a blanket statement of “put them all in a metal hospital” , judge each case by the person themselves. You know, that idea of innocent until proven guilty.

          But the stats are rather telling. Even for those that do go through all the operations to “change” their gender, the suicide rate is still almost 40%. Is it because of societal lack of acceptance? or just because, in the end, nothing will make them “right” in their own body?

          Either way, as long as I am not forced by law to deny science, or to be criminalized and forced by law to use gender pronouns, then their own journey to find their “gender”, is up to them.

        • Pwrserge

          While I don’t support transgender individuals in the military, if a medical condition prevents a person from being deployed they are given a discharge. I could see some joining just to have DoD pay for their surgery. If women don’t have someone to care for their child when they are deployed, they are or at least were discharged. Trying to force commanders to have 4 different berthing spaces on a small ship would be impossible, CVN not so much.
          But I dare say this woman is not mentally ill, I disagree with her stand on transgender on active duty, but how she lives her life in our country I will and have defended that right, just like your right to disagree with a trans mental state.
          I think both have bigger balls than either of us, to decide your mind and body are polar opposites and decide to change their body and lifestyle to what they feel is a heIIofva big step. I could not walk a mile in their shoes, or 3 steps if they wore high heels.
          In the US, what makes our country great is our own rights to be ourselves as long we don’t step on other’s rights by doing so.

          http://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/02/trump-transgender-ban-navy-seal-women-rule-podcast-241229

        • “I don’t care how he feels the same way I don’t care how a schizophrenic feels. Both are obviously a danger to themselves and others.”

          Funny, the ATF didn’t think so when they granted me my FFL, or my tax stamps… no one has adjudicated me to be a danger. I’ve never hurt anyone.

        • Yep, there used to be state hospitals full of all types of mentaly ill people just like this. Now we spend that money on upkeep on the local P.D.s APCs and tanks. Not to mention cell phone scanning equipment and countless paid hours spying on social media. Also, lets not forget, all those gold stars for police cheifs collars cost money…
          Seriously, Bruce Jenner is still BRUCE JENNER even if he cut his dick off. Does chopping it off make one less crazy or more nowadays?
          This is a fuckin joke of an article. Wow. Luis (or louise?) needs to move on.

    • While I agree that pretending to be something your not is rather absurd, i applaud TTAG for using this person as an example of who the gun community should embrace not alienate.

      Freedom comes with a price. I want to be free to homeschool my children and attend my church of choice and Erin wants to be free to act like a woman.

      The second amendment protects us both. Even if we do not agree with each other.

      • One of those is not like the others. Hint: it’s the one that involves self-mutilation and a mental illness diagnosis.

        • Hey pwrsrge,

          This discussion is long over I suppose but just on the chance that you follow comments

          You may or may not already know this stuff.

          A person can be born with XY chromosomes (male) but the Y doesn’t get activated and so the person grows up looking female.

          A person can have XXY chromosomes and grow up looking female

          What would you say about these conditions?what would you have said before we had the tools to understand them?

          There are actual biological reasons for some, and who knows what we will know in 20 years,maybe all, of transgenderisms.

          Just food for thought

        • Delusion: A belief in held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary. The rough criteria for definition as a delusion are:
          Certainty: being held with absolute conviction
          Incorrigibility: not changegable by compelling counterargument or proof to the contrary.
          Impossibility or falsity of content: implausible, bizzare or patently untrue.

          Delusional thinking is a hallmark of many mental illnesses. Technically most religious beliefs, if genuinely held to be literally true and not parables, fall into the category of delusion. Within the christian context the book of genesis, Noah’s ark, the fall of Sodom and Gomorrah (and Lot’s wife being turned into a pillar of salt), immaculate conception, young earth creationism, the holy trinity, papal infalibility (for the catholics) and the transformation of bread and wine into the body and blood of christ would all be classed as delusions as they have been thoroughly disproven by large volumes of evidence.

          Based on your inclusion of gender reassignment surgery as self mutilation then that category would also logically include any of the following activities: circumcision on religious grounds (medical grounds are fine for boys), any form of cosmetic surgery, the injection of botulinum toxin into the body for cosmetic purposes (there are medical grounds to do it), the willing injection of ink under the skin to cause permanent disfigurement (tattoos) for cosmetic reasons and any surgery taken on an elective basis (ie medically unneccessary).

          Based on that logic if you know of anyone who holds those beliefs (all thoroughly discredited by evidence) and has has undertaken any of those activities then they are also by your definition mentally ill, a risk to themselves or others and thus should be involuntarily committed to a psychiatric facility and stripped of their 2nd ammendment rights. I’m also certain that if we sat down for an hour or so and had a chat I could probably find multiple diagnoses within the DSM-V for various mental illnesses that you would meet the criteria for (don’t feel bad, you could do this with literally anyone and find something to diagnose them with which).

    • Good for Erin and bad for the guy who wants to confuse gender identification with gun owner rights regardless of race creed color sex etc etc ad nauseam. I’ve known several conservative folks who happen to be LGBT, they think along the same lines as most of us with exception to their preferences in attraction of the opposite sex. What they do in their bedrooms has zero effect on constitutional rights of an American citizen.

      • Ok Will, what other mental disorders shouldn’t result in you being locked in a padded room? Schizophrenia? DID?

        If someone is willing to surgically or chemically mutilate themselves to the point where they are no longer a functional member of the species, they cannot be trusted outside the care of a psychiatric professional.

        • “Does it hurt you?”

          There will be hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands? of children that will be born to transgender “couples” that will propagate their psychosis to their children by the use of sex blocking hormones. You are facilitating the abuse of an untold number of future children.

          Hate to be a damper on your “virtue signalling”.

        • Yep, this is totally the same thing. There are also gays adopting kids and telling them they are gay. Should we take away their second amendment right too?

        • Pwrserge is right. What as sad state of affairs when the one person speaking truth is getting attacked by a faceless mob. If a person is so wrong in the head that they can’t understand the sex they were born with they should absolutely not have access to weapons. Call me anti freedom or against the second amendment it does not matter, if you are so messed up in the head that you want to mutilate the body God gave you then you should not have access to even a pointy rock much less a powerful tool that in the wrong hands can be very destructive. What is the old saying, a gun depends on the character of it’s user? Mentally ill people should not have access to a car, a knife or a gun. Just because society has all of a sudden decided in the last 5 years that gender mutilation is ok does not mean that it is so. Every culture and country for all of history has said that it is wrong and messed up in the head. We should listen to the wisdom of our ancestors at the very least.

        • I read comments from people in the UK who think people who carry guns for protection are mentally ill…
          It’s your own body, do what you want.

          Go ahead and open that “this person is mentally ill because {Blank} so I want government to take away their rights” I’m sure it will work well.

        • Do you agree with them? England has been long gone for over a generation. Just because people say the earth is flat does not mean that it is so. So just to make sure that I am clear,, chopping off large portions of your anatomy throughout history has always been a sign of mental illness. That was the case until like last year. In most parts of the country it still is. Ever seen Monty Python?
          “I mean, if I went ’round saying I was an emperor, just because some moistened bink had lobbed a scimitar at me, they would put me away…”
          About the same thing I would judge here.

        • “If someone is willing to surgically or chemically mutilate themselves to the point where they are no longer a functional member of the species, they cannot be trusted outside the care of a psychiatric professional.”

          I’ve had a vasectomy, which is the same end result you’ve just described, can I not be trusted outside the care of a psychiatric professional?

    • You know, most conservatives don’t give a flying Fuck about transgender or gay people doing whatever it is they want to do. They’re simply opposed to things like the military or prisons paying for transgender operations, and other tax payer funded hard leftist themes.

      • Exactly. And we are also constantly being instructed by the enlightened amongst us to not only “accept” these freaks, but we must also now “support” these freaks.

        I don’t give a fvck what you do with your body. Just leave me and my tax dollars out of it. And stay off my lawn.

      • And why do transgender such as Erin have to tell everybody they are transgender? Go live your life as you wish. Leave me out of it.

        • Well, probably a good idea to let your new boyfriend know that you’re really a dude before you go all Crying Game on him. Especially if you’re pre-op.

        • As a personal friend of Erin… she doesn’t, in real life.

          As a matter of public interest, the fact that she’s:

          1. Trans
          2. Attractive (seriously… walking around with her is pretty hilarious)
          3. Smart
          4. A gun rights activist

          1-3 All makes her noteworthy over and above #4, but she doesn’t really telegraph the fact, and actually passes pretty well and doesn’t push it unless it’s necessary- or, in today’s day and age, it gives narrative benefits/stops a leftist long enough to listen to her instead of plugging their ears.

          All makes her noteworthy

    • Right? This person is suffering from a serious mental illness, and people who suffer from this mental illness have a dramatically higher suicide rate than the rest of the population, whether or not they actually go through with gender reassignment surgery.

      Yet someone who smokes some pot after work has to lie on the 4473 to buy a firearm.

      Gender dysphoria is a mental illness, a delusional behavior. It’s just that this delusional behavior is agreed with by psychiatrists. That’s a shame,because psychiatrists are supposed to help people return to sanity, not run with their insanity.

    • I never thought I’d read these kinds of replies on this website. I’m sitting here wondering WTF is going on and if I’ll even continue coming here after so many have proven the lefts insults to be true.

      • Topher, read further. Virtually no one agrees with him. He might have the first comment, but since we don’t have voting like Facebook, it’s not the top comment, only chronologically first.

        • C’mon Topher. Toughen up a little. Part of what makes TTAG the best blog out there is the free-wheeling comments section. Get in there and punch back against Serge if you don’t agree with him. Fight Club Topher.

        • I come here for the truth about guns, not to read peoples opinions of what may or may not be mental illness and the borderline personal attacks against someone who doesn’t fit into others views of the societal norm.

        • Gender Dysphoria – DSM V (formerly known as Gender Identity Disorder in DSM IV) is a mental illness. Period.

          This is the consensus of a whole bunch of doctors and researchers, and whether you consider it PC or not, the fact remains that the evidence is fairly conclusive that there is no biological (genetic) causality.

          http://www.ifge.org/302.85_Gender_Identity_Disorder_in_Adolescents_or_Adults

          Whether some of them are functional enough to have firearms, is a debate for a different day. But the fact remains, Sergei is correct that they are seriously mentally ill.

      • Topher this what a real open dialog looks like. TTAG doesn’t delete people’s opinions unless there’s serious ad hominem or an absurd amount of cursing. It’s not pretty, but it’s a real forum, not an echo chamber. There are *very* few places like this online anymore. This may offend you, but believe me, wait until the next police shooting to see the venom thrown at all officers for the actions of a few, then wait until that rat “More dead soldiers” shows up to cheer on ISIS and Al Queda. These nasty trolls suck, but most of the time they are countered with a slur of facts in which you can learn from. Or, if it’s me and I’m drunk, they also then get a slur of childish name calling and questionable comments.

      • You are correct, SHE is the truth about guns. That has nothing to do with whether or not being transgender is a mental illness and should require forced mental treatment.

        • That person is not a she. If HE died and was found in a decomposed state, the forensics specialists would correctly identify him as a male by analyzing his bone and teeth structure.

          You can no more change your gender than your race. Oh, and just so you know, a forensics specialist can easily identify a skeleton’s race, too.

        • There are two genders, and (generally) you are born with one of them. He was born with a schlong and testes, he is male. He can’t even get “implanted” with all the requisite plumbing to become female, change the rest of his body hardwiring, let alone HIS brain.

          I don’t care if he “identifies” as a dog, I’m not calling him a canine either.

          Topher, your highschool/college isn’t teaching how to think critically. I do hope you learn on your own someday.

        • @Mama Liberty

          You engage in what Thomas Sowell calls “First Stage Thinking” where you don’t look beyond the first response to an issue. For instance gay mattiage has begotten reduction of freedom of religion (ask the baker, photographer, and florist) and now it has brought us the mainstreaming of transgenderism .

          Now the rise of transgenderism has brought the ever increasing rise of the child abuse of providing sex blocking hormones to children.

          Just becaus eyou can’t look beyond stage 1 doesn’t mean that others don’t have the right to talk about the implications.

          Already in the works is the mainstreaming of Man-Boy love….aka pedophilia.

    • Gender and sexual preference constitute a complex subject about which commentators fall into three groups — fools, liars and a tiny minority with the wisdom and courage to admit they don’t know the answer. The older I get, the more I am convinced that most conflicts could be avoided by following one simple rule. Leave other people the hell alone. I am a straight male who has been faithfully married to the same woman for forty five years. Erin doesn’t pose a threat to me or my marriage. Therefore, I have no reason to criticize her or interfere with her choices even though they are foreign, even incomprehensible, to me. Remember that the most vile of tyrants are those who would control your life “for your own good”.

    • What a sad image you bring up!

      Do you also advocate sending all Jews to mental institutions for genital mutilation? They are even worse — they do it to babies. At least Erin does it to herself.

      How do your feel about tattoos? I suppose you might allow that, unless they are on the genitals.

      How about piercings? Same thing, ok except on genitals? How about nipple studs? How about tongues?

      Your distant diagnosis of her as being mentally defective is on a par with all the hoplophobes who diagnosis all gunnies as mentally defective. I do hope your appreciate the irony, but I suspect your self-loathing and pent-up anger make such subtleties impossible.

      • You call it bigotry, some call it science denial.

        Chromosomes, you either have them or you don’t. If you have a Y chromosome, you are a male. Period. Someones feelings on the issue are irrelevant.

        • He is right. Scientifically. Look it up. We are male or female right down to the DNA. Parts might be a little messed up in some cases but the Dna evidence is conclusive.

        • No, he is not right, scientifically. There are plenty of examples of mixed up X and Y chromosomes leaving people in some intermediate state. There are also real-life hermaphrodites.

          Anyone who thinks gender is binary one-or-the-other hasn’t even been paying attention to people in general. The spectrum from macho to effeminate is a continuum in both females and males.

          Evolutionary biology provides an explanation for homosexuality, which would seem to be an evolutionary dead end since they do not reproduce. I have little doubt that most binary-gender believers have at least a sneaking suspicion that homosexuality is a choice, not genetics. But that is just a guess on my part, based on trans-deniers like yourselves.

    • Gender dysphoria is not a mental illness as such. It’s a mind/body disorder. Trans people are perfectly aware of what’s going on with their mind and body — as much as you or I.

      Since nobody (yet) can figure out why trans people’s brains disagree with their sexual anatomy, much less address the problem on that end, the only option that doesn’t just say “you’re permanently broken and have no hope” is to alter the anatomy.

      Seems to me that many of you are stuck on a false dichotomy. Accepting trans people for who they are does NOT mean we have to abandon all notions of binary gender, dismantle our entire society, and rebuild it around them. That’s the crazy progressive left talking.

      I’ll freely admit that the transgender thing breaks my brain — but I don’t have to understand it in order to treat someone with decency. All we really need to do is treat individuals the way their individual behavior dictates. When tolerance is extended, reciprocate. That’s it.

        • DSM iv and v are full of all sorts of shit. Psychiatry has only even been around for a hundred years–and part of it said shoving needles in people’s brains was good medicine. I get to witness the effects of diagnosing people based on the DSM and it has given me no confidence in those publications or much in that soft science.

        • The people here crying mental illness are trying to equate gender dysphoria with something like paranoid schizophrenia, which it absolutely is not. That’s why I said it’s not a mental illness. Besides, even if the psychologists are right and I’m wrong, the rest of my comment still applies.

          So it’s a mental illness… What type of illness is it, and what can/should be done about it? Does the DSM IV have something to say about that? I’m guessing it doesn’t advocate what the blowhards in this thread are suggesting.

    • let me guess pwrserge?

      you are a bible thumping church goer??
      or you obey the good book blindly or the Pope?
      Well see how well letting a ‘book’ rule your every thought works ohh so well in the middle east???

      If they are not PERSONALLY hurting you—then shut it!
      Just like I or we here don’t tell you how to ‘live’ your life!

  2. I’m not too thrilled about a self-mutilating mental patient being out of a doctor’s direct care. If they are crazy enough to chop up their own genitals, I don’t really care to find out what else they are crazy enough to do.

        • I don’t think anybody in their right mind would argue that committed mental patients or prisoners have 2nd amendment rights.

        • Comrade I whole heartedly agree with you. To the gulag with them as only the state knows what is right. The people must learn so we will take away individual rights and choices for their own good! It does not matter if they are upstanding citizen, because they don’t agree with core value they must be made an example of and their rights refused and taken away. Stay true to the party as always!

        • Wow… nice straw man there. Pretending that gender dysphoria is a choice is like pretending that we should leave schizophrenics alone to decide to take their pills or not. I don’t know about you, but I’m not comfortable leaving people on the street who believe they have martians sitting on their shoulder telling them to burn things.

        • After reading pwrserge’s comments, I can only conclude that it is he/she that should seek out mental health counseling.

        • @pwserge: why the emotional response? You obviously have a VERY strong opinion on this matter. What is your dog in this fight?

        • Pwrsege, ever feel like some days you’re being gaslighted?

          Yes, most everybody here is apparently taking crazy pills.

    • Serge by your logic lets lock up gun owners because owning a gun is obviously a mental illness that will lead to the harm of themselves or others. Just look at homicide and suicide statistics. You fvcking tyrant

      🙂

    • Serge will never appreciate his own irony……leave communist shithole, settle in US, bitch about said communist shithole to anyone who listens, then turns around and says a whole group of people should be disarmed and institutionalized……….how very “communist” of you, comrade….

    • Serge, I respect you opinion on Muslim invaders, but I have to say, you really appear quite… taken… with the issue.

      Including emphasis on genitals.

      If a transperson DOESN’T mutilate their genitals, does that put them on a higher mental health plane than those who do? You’ve occasionally slipped in “alter with chemicals/hormones” but continue to bang on about genitals.

      So if they don’t modify their genitals, if not completely sane, does that make them more sane than those who do modify their genitals?

  3. This is where TTAG falls down, badly. They think they can separate guns from the larger culture war, they can’t, it’s a package deal and trotting out this extreme outlier only muddies the water for the dim.

    • If gun rights need to be linked to the larger culture war, what issues specifically are you speaking of? What do gun rights have to do with (just for instance) gay marriage, pornography, or school prayer?

      • Hal,

        Obviously not enough for this ride. If you don’t think guns are part of the culture war your beyond clueless, willfully ignorant, and exhibit A of someone who should be ignored. Pro-gun in theory and speech only.

        • So because I support gay marriage, the right to make and view pornography, and keeping state-sponsored prayer out of public schools, I’m not “really” a supporter of the 2A?

        • Lol, correct Hal, correct.

          You’re a lefty, at a functional level worthless for gun rights.

          I said it’s a package deal and you have made my point.

        • So kick anyone who isn’t a social conservative out of the gun rights movement?

          Nice job you’re doing to weaken the fight for 2A rights.

        • Rufusdog,
          Hal is spot on. If you can’t/don’t evaluate issues separately according to their individual merit, then you’re just playing into the hands of the mainstream media who have worked hard to confuse you and make you think that public policy has to come as a “package deal.” Their goal is to create division and create the illusion of the left/right dichotomy in which your brain seems to be completely immersed. The fact that you would insist that public policy must come as a “package deal” actually proves that you are, indeed, the one who is “dim.” Congrats. You’ve been punked.

        • The issue here is, IMHO, knowing when it’s appropriate to separate things and when not to.

          When that’s done correctly these arguments tend to disappear. However, when you let the Progressives dictated the conversation and the tempo of the debate you end up in a dangerous situation for 2A supporters. That situation is this: the party that is hostile to the 2A wins on other issues and then attacks the 2A.

          The Democratic party has been pared back to just the Lefties. Moderates have pretty well been wiped out. That means that if the Democrats win on any issue or combination of issues the 2A is at risk because part and parcel of the Leftist thought process is civilian disarmament.

          You can hold a consistent Conservative/Libertarian position and support the 2A fully provided that you don’t get bogged down in the Left’s word games and bullshit argumentative traps.

    • Actually I think we have a rare opportunity here. I hate the left, but many are *seriously* reconsidering gun control after Trumps epic election win. They truly despise and fear him as “literally hitler.” Because they’re retarded. However, I say we should exploit this gap in their logic as much as possible, and try to get as many gun owning liberals to be fierce gun rights supporters while Trump is in. Gun rights is often a good door to opening ones mind on other individual rights, and the rest of the constitution.

      • Sorry Hank, ESPN, NASCAR, the NFL and the GOP itself are learning a valuable lesson. Diversity is cancer. Their base is letting them know tat in spades, and unless they want to continue their fall into irrelevance, they will realize that,

        A lefty will never vote their guns, because liberalism is a mental disorder.

    • Left and right disagree vehemently on many subjects. However, their differences pale into insignificance compared to the one trait they share. That is, an unshakable conviction that they have the moral obligation to impose their respective agendas on everyone else using the power of the state to accomplish that goal. The real culture war is between freedom and oppression. In that war, both left and right are on the side of the oppressors.

      • There’s a lot less “red team” vs “blue team” stuff around here than you think there is.

    • Not only do I fight for gun rights, I also face down violent commies at free speech rallies up and down the left coast. I also think the trans military ban is a good idea, and believe Obergefell was a travesty that destroyed objective law.

      Don’t you dare try to pigeonhole me, and I strongly suspect if we compared our political positions head to head I’d make you look like a commie cuck.

  4. Ok… for those that think that this is normal… What is the practical difference between a man cutting off his own dick because he thinks he’s a woman and a man cutting out his eye because he thinks he’s Odin?

    • I don’t think this is particularly “normal”. To which I say….so what? Last I checked, there was no legal requirement for “normality” (however one defines it).

      As for the practical difference, using surgery to physically modify one’s genitals to resemble those of a woman does not give one a disability. Ripping out one’s eye does.

      Rather obvious to me, but I’m happy to help you out.

        • Are you trying to tell me with a straight face that a woman who gets a hysterectomy should be considered “disabled”?

        • I had a vasectomy 31 yrs. ago. I can no longer reproduce, yet I certainly don’t feel that I’m disabled. Go figure…

        • I got snipped. I can no longer have kids. Thank God we have you to explain that mutilation makes me mentally ill and I should be involuntarily locked up and have no rights anymore! LET FREEDOM RING!!!!

    • While not “normal” this form of behavior has been “normalized” and that for all practical purposes is not going to change. So we for lack of better alternatives are going to have to deal with it, how one does so is up to you.

  5. It appears that Erin has learned the valuable lesson of how dangerous many on the Left can be especially the “Anarchist” types. Protectors of liberty and freedom they are not.

  6. FLAME DELETED

    Wasn’t there some “hardcore gun advocate” chick that just couldn’t bring herself to vote for Trump and voted for Clinton? That’s what you get with this special interest nonsense. A whole bunch of talk but a vote for gun control.

    • Rufus, excellent point.

      You forgot to point out that other author was ALSO a redhead.

      However, as a personal friend of Erin, let me say… she’s probably a bigger Trump supporter/anti-leftist activist than you.

      Happy to continue correspondence, but if Erin has her way she’s certainly going to be talking more in the future, and she’ll definitely speak for herself.

      She’s no nevertrumper libertarian. She would happily be part of a helicopter crew. Don’t believe me? Check out facebook. She isn’t hard to find.

  7. Gender dysphoria may or may not be a mental illness, but there is NOTHING in the Second Amendment about gender or mental illness.

    “…the right of the people to keep and bear arms…”

    And just because someone MAY have a mental illness, so long as they are not a danger to themselves or others, does not deny them their natural, civil and Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms for their personal defense.

    I may disagree with the idea of transgender, but I understand that in their mind, in their universe, it is a very real thing and a very real issue, so it is not for me to impose my opinions on them. They must make their choice and they must live with that choice, not me. But I will NEVER disagree with their choice to defend their own life and to proclaim to others that this is a right that belongs to every American.

    • Please tell me more about how someone willing to chop off their own dick is not a danger to themselves. People with severe gender dysphoria need to be in a mental institution.

      • Pwrserge:

        You propagate the hate filled idea that instead of judging individual Americans on their merits and abilities that we should discriminate against entire classes of people who are different from you and in this case disarm them and involuntary commit them to a mental institution. You are nothing more than an intolerant throwback to a time not to long ago when like minded people such as yourself got together late at night dressed in bed sheets to burn crosses.

        • Yes… how dare I take the position that the dangerously mentally ill should get treatment rather than have their self-destructive delusions hummored. What a horrible person I am for wanting people to get treatment for their mental condition rather than have them permanently mutilated in a way that permanently removes several key bodily functions. If you don’t see the difference here, you are beneath my contempt.

        • Serge, I seriously don’t care if somebody wants to cut off his dick and have both eyes and an arm removed at the same time, so long as *I* don’t have to pay for it! Are you saying you wish to personally pay for all this institutionalization and psychoanalysis you are demanding?

      • Pwserge:

        What evidence do you have that this person is “dangerously mentally ill”, in need of treatment and should have their 2nd amendment rights infringed upon as she is involuntarily committed? This is the same crap I hear from liberal gun grabbers who feel that people that don’t agree with them are a danger to society and should have their second amendment rights taken away.

        • Ok… so if permanent self-mutilation is not a warning sign… how about the fact that untreated gender dysphoria increases suicide rates astronomically? I repeat myself, but here goes. Gender reassignment does not improve patient outcomes. If anything, there is some data showing that it makes the patient’s suicide risk WORSE.

        • Serge, how many tattoos do you have? How many peircings? If the answer is anything greater than zero… FLAME DELETED

        • “how about the fact that untreated gender dysphoria increases suicide rates astronomically?”

          Yeah, how about it? WGAS, don’t let the door hit you on the way out! Who CARES if they off themselves? And how is it your business?

      • You will not be convinced or dissuaded, however, he/she is not and was not a danger to ANYONE. The procedure in question was not done in some back-alley shop but undoubtedly at great expense in a well-regulated medical facility by a licensed doctor. Are they ALL insane? Perhaps there is some degree of insanity to be so obsessed with your sexuality that you must go to these extremes, but that in itself does not make the person dangerous and certainly does not eliminate their Second Amendment right to self protection.

        San Francisco is FULL of people who are actually insane:

        https://www.google.com/search?q=extreme+facial+peircing&sa=X&nfpr=1&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ved=0ahUKEwiZwb_dgsPVAhUO1mMKHf8pBaUQsAQIJw&biw=1600&bih=808

        And even they retain the right to defend their insane selves from bigotry and intolerance. Yes, these people may in fact be crazy, but until they come after your genitals or try to force you to pierce your face and other body parts, they are not a danger and have the same freedoms as anybody else.

        And if they do come for you seeking to force harm upon you them you have the absolute right to exercise YOUR Second Amendment protected rights, but not before.

      • Waiting for comrade serge to say institutionalization isnt enough, trannies are too dangerous even for that and they each need a 9×18 behind the ear and have their corpses kicked into ditches en masse and buried….

  8. If we stand for 1 of the rights don’t we stand for all of them and for everyone ? My understanding of our republic is the majority can rule as long as it maintains all the same rights for the minority. All equal but no one is special.

    • There is no “right” for self-mutilating mental patients to have heir delusions humored. We don’t salute schizophrenics that think they are Eisenhower, we put them in a mental institution where they can’t hurt themselves, or anyone else.

      • The streets of every city are awash with people who have some form of “mental illness,” according to the “experts.” Then there are all of the people who live with extreme stress, dependency issues, the aftermath of countless personal problems and life trauma. Are all of those “mentally ill” too? You will need to build “institutions” larger than Chicago and NYC if you want to lock them all up. And you are going to need an impressive army of goons to disarm all of them.

        Luckily, most of them suffer pretty much alone and deal with life the best they can. Very few are aggressive or harm others. Whether or not they harm themselves is their business… not yours. You don’t have any authority to define any of this for everyone. If you have problems with individuals, you have a choice to avoid them. You can’t choose for anyone else.

        I am a retired health care professional, with many years dealing with all kinds of people. Even the so-called “experts,” the shrinks and so forth will never actually agree on a single, simple definition of “normal,” let alone “mental illness.” You are free to define it for yourself, however you please… but you can’t choose for me.

        Erin sounds like a great person, with her head screwed on plenty straight. I’d be proud to have her for a neighbor, and happy to shoot with her any time. Her chosen “gender” is irrelevant to me.

        This whole “gender” thing makes little sense to me, but I can’t and won’t attempt to define or control it for anyone else.

        • I’m pretty sure that there is a difference between mild depression and self-mutilation. Nice straw man there, conflating all mental illness with people who are clearly a danger to themselves or others.

          Did you miss the part where I want to HELP these people? If gender reassignment was a functional treatment, I would support it. However, the data is clear, gender reasignment has no impact on patient outcomes for patients with gender dysphoria. It is a medical abomination of the level of early 20th century frontal lobotomies. Instead of treating the symptoms or the disease, you advocate that we pretend that the disease doesn’t exist and continue to allow these people to mutilate themselves and drive themselves to suicide.

      • Does any one here realize there is a critical flaw in this mentally ill asumption? People who transition are required to undergo significant counseling long before surgery is approved? It is a long complex process.

        It is however a fact the suicide rates of people who transition are higher than normal.

        • I rather suspect that the suicide rate among those who DON’T is significantly high as well.

      • “There is no “right” for self-mutilating mental patients to have heir delusions humored.”

        So, does your personal phobia include wishing to imprison women who want breast implants, or fat removal surgery? Your position is either poorly expressed of completely indefensible.

        EDIT: Yippeekiyay! No more constant data reentry!

        • Also, I have always argued that if an individual doesn’t have the freedom to do wtf ever he/she wants to their own body (to include mutilate or kill oneself) then you’re not free, you’re a slave of the state. I do not care the reason, as long as they’re not harming anyone else in the process.

          I couldn’t give a single fuck about someone who mutilates their genitals. I’ve heard there’s dudes that get off nailing their dicks to 2″x4″s, literally driving a 10d nail right through their cocks, and for the life of me I can not understand why anyone but the dude with a spike in his dick would give a single shit.

    • Yeah… because pumping yourself full of hormones or getting an addadicktome is so much better. What they are is severely mentally ill and trying to turn themselves into freaks of nature. Encouraging them is criminal.

        • Whatere they are an accessory to. In the case of permanent mutilation, felony assault.

        • So lock up all the doctors, nurses, hospital staff, and therapists involved.

          You do know that there isn’t the slightest chance of your agenda (on this issue) coming to pass, do you not?

        • Ok Hall, unlike you, most of us can’t tolerate standing by and encouraging people to mutilate themselves and drive themselves to suicide. If gender reassignment was a functional treatment there would be a significant difference between pre and post op suicide rates. There is not. Worse, the post-op suicide rates are actually HIGHER.

        • “Most of us”?

          Are you under the (mistaken) impression that your desire to see every transgendered person in the country locked up is a majority opinion?

        • Keep deluding yourself Hal. I don’t think any reasonable person wants the dangerously mentally ill wandering the streets without treatment that works.

  9. So, here we have an essay talking about how the political left are the true champions of bigotry, prejudice, and intolerance, and a couple of commenters seem determined to prove it wrong.

    The National Socialists were leftists, if you don’t like being compared to them, quit impersonating them. Let ANTIFA corner that market.

  10. I’m a libertarian baptized christian, so I believe that I have the right to practice my beliefs among other fellow Christians without being forced by the greater society to bow to political correctness; but I don’t believe in laws forcing the rest of society to follow my christian beliefs, either, except abortion, that’s just murder.

    So if someone wants to think they are a man in a woman’s body, or vice aversa, that’s their choice, but don’t expect me to be a science denier and say that they are biologically anything other than a biological man or biological woman, with all the same rights as any human being, but just kind of confused.

    So in the same vane, they have all the same rights as all human beings, but if they are a biological man, I expect them to use a mans bathroom, or if a biological woman, a woman’s bathroom, regardless of what gender they “feel” they are.

    In the same way, if in private, out of courtesy, if my co-worker was a transgender and “he” wanted to be called “her”, I would do so, but if we had a woman and man’s bathroom, I would expect the co-worker to use the biologically correct bathroom.

    But just like Dr. Jordan Peterson, I would go to jail before I bowed to the on going agenda among the regressives to criminalize a belief in science or the requirement, by law, to to be forced to accept gender pronouns as any thing other than a denial of freedom of speech, an attack on our western tradition of freedom of personal choice and our rule of law.

      • Ahh, a G-d denier. Science has proven the biological difference of males and females, but there is no proof of the existence or the non-existence of an intelligence that created this universe, as. shown by science.

        So until a scientist can create life from a Petrie dish of the basic building blocks of life, those same scientists, and the rest of us, can continue to debate the subject..

        • Radbod, last pagan king of the frisians (dutch) is said to have told the catholic priests that tried to convert him “call down your jesus from heaven and let him engage me in single combat on the royal grounds, if he defeats me and strikes me down, the whole of my people will convert to your faith. If i strike him down, then wotan is superior and you will die and your churches burn”. Long story short, jesus stayed where he was, the priests were slaughtered and the fledgling churches raised. Catholicism was effectively eradicated from Friesland for a time.

        • please note that I am not denying the existence of greater power. I just don’t think it gives a shit whether we eat pork, get tattoos, or find the same sex appealing. Basically I don’t believe in the “God of Abraham”

    • What in the world is this obsession with bathrooms? The transgender population is much smaller than the homosexual bunch, but I’ll bet dollars to donuts you would never recognize either one in passing through a public restroom.

      • But it doesn’t STOP with the bathroom, does it? No, dear, the battle then shifts to the locker room. Then there’s the whole “gender fluid” argument, which states that one’s gender identity is whatever one says it is, can change from day to day, and requires no effort to adopt the appearance of the gender one claims.

        In other words, someone who looks like James Yeager can claim to be a woman, demand access to the women’s locker room at the gym, and he has to be allowed access. Because there is no standard for what a transgender is, that opens the door for all sorts of abuse.

        Do you want to have a big ol’ hairy man showering next to you at your gym? Do you want a 16 year old pervert taking advantage of this law to use the girls’ locker room in a high school?

        It’s not as simple as you make it out to be.

        • Yes, it is that simple. If I saw someone in the public bathroom that made me honestly uncomfortable, I’d just leave. Parents are responsible for their children. Everyone else is responsible for themselves… I’m armed at all times, of course, but “gender” isn’t the only possible problem. A woman in a woman’s bathroom might be an aggressor just as easily as a man – regardless of their biological identity.

          Tell you a funny story… Years ago I was waiting for a flight connection at O’Hare airport. I went into the bathroom and immediately a very large, very male dude in serious, flaming drag came out of one of the booths. He had the biggest shit eating grin on his face, and we about died laughing together. Two other ladies came in right then, turned several shades of pink, and he dashed out the door still laughing. No big deal. He was no threat to anyone.

          Had a smile on my face the rest of the trip. “His” dress was absolutely outrageous… too many colors. Tell me, why can women wear men’s clothes and nobody cares, but so many folks get hysterical if it’s the other way around. Sexists… 🙂

        • I actually had a conversation about restrooms at work just yesterday. We have traditional mens and womens restrooms. We don’t have a family restroom, we don’t have a gender-fluid restroom. It came up in conversation, and my response was, “Use whatever restroom you feel appropriate for yourself, and act like a fucking adult while you’re in there. It really is that simple.”

        • I notice BOTH people who responded to this conveniently ignored the changing room and locker room scenarios.

          Wonder why. Nope,they both went right to the bathroom scenario.

          When your daughters have to shower with Seth Rogan lookalikes, don’t come crying to me.

        • Didn’t ignore it at all. Each person is responsible for his/her own life and safety, and that of their children. They can personally take whatever precautions they deem necessary. If my daughter (or son) found an aggressive person in their restroom, changing room, whatever, they would know what to do about it. If children are too young to deal with it themselves, why in the world would a parent allow them to be alone? It isn’t only transgender people who might be a danger. And anyone who is counting on some ‘law’ to make them comfortable and safe is truly delusional.

          Isn’t that the same as the gun grabber’s delusional promise that everyone will be comfy and safe if only all the guns are removed from our lives?

        • I doubt the girls will be showering with the Seth Rogan look a likes. Seth will have that locker room all to himself. Another unintended consequence of the enlightened Tesla driving progressives.

        • Mama liberty, You seem to think that it is all ok and because you have a gun you can defend yourself and so live and let live. My question, do you think it is ok to have men with a mental illness to kick the hell out of women in high school athletics? I personally like to watch boys compete with boys and girls to compete with girls. It seems just a tad wrong to watch boys kick the hell out of girls with their superior athleticism even though the girls are more skilled. Seriously do you think this is OK>?

      • Lol. What is the “obsession”, Mama Liberty, with having a man use a men’s bathroom and a woman use a women’s bathroom? Because the man is a man and the woman is a woman regardless of what they might “feel” their gender is that day? That is science, that is fact. Oh, wait, if I have standards or limits on what I consider proper public behavior, especially in the bathroom, that means I must be a bigot, or a homophobe, or a xenophobe, or a transphobe, or an Islamaphobe; take your phobic pick; depending on which particular victim group the transgender person happens to place themselves that day, especially if they are of the “fluid gender” variety.

        But in the end, this is simply another front in the war based in the lottery of victim groups that need to be “protected” from “oppression” by that horrendous thing called societal standards and norms.

        But you simply show me what the bible has already shown, once the society has cut loose of those biblical standards of morals, then the ability of human being to justify any behavior, no matter how out of bounds of traditional moral behavior, is on the table.

        This is not new, Mama Liberty. This type of rejection of traditional morals and the embracing of what was once wrong and making it right has happened over and over again through out history. In my opinion, this is why dark ages happen.

        This is another reason why I am a Christian. What you show me by your very inability to see anything out of bounds with this whole issue, is proof to me of this dissolution of any roots, any foundation in a life based belief system.

        Christ and Yaweh is the Way, the Truth and the Life. And those that reject this truth, are embracing death. The Regressives and all of their agenda is one of societal suicide, chaos, mass death and ultimately tyranny. They embrace the murder of unborn children, the support of “alternative lifestyles” , (which means any combination of relationship is defended, except a marriage of a man and a woman, which is relentlessly attacked by feminists), the attacking of all standards of acceptable public behavior, and those that object are simply some type of “Phobe”, take your pick.

        Just look to western Europe, and see our ultimate fate, if left unchecked. They show the path of “tolerance” and their rejection of christian standards and behaviors. To the point where they embrace and protect the influx of a belief system like Islam, that is the very real nightmare of intolerance, hate, bigotry and murder that Christianity never was.

        • Doesn’t seem you have actually read much of what I’ve written. Individual liberty, self responsibility and voluntary association is completely different than special interest groups or professional victims. Each individual is responsible for his/her own life and safety… and that of their legitimate dependents, of course.

          I’m a deist, and follow no organized religion, but I think your bible contains a lot of freedom advice. One example: Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling… I’ve read your book, and I can’t remember any place in it where you are commanded to round up people and force them to do anything…

          And no mention at all of bathrooms…

        • Oh Mama Liberty. Where have I said that anyone needs to be “rounded” up for their confusions or for the lies they have convinced themselves are the “Truth”? I did say that I am a libertarian Christian. As long as no one attempts to force me by law to associate in my home or in my church with people not practicing christian beliefs, or force me to accept as normal or healthy the opposite sex in public bathrooms, or have me to deny science and force me to accept that people are not the sex they were born with, if their “feelings” say otherwise, and as long as my civil liberties are honored, I will honor those of others. People are free to be or feel any thing they want.

          But this is all academic. As I have said, this is a minor puzzle piece of the totality of what the Regressives have created. You and the Morally Relativistic world that has been created, proves to my satisfaction that the collapse is near; as six thousand years of Judaic, Christian and western history shows. The bible also shows the people that will rebuild will be those accepting voluntarily, the Way, the Truth and the Life. Because the bible is ultimately an inspired manual of how to build a culture and society based on the laws of nature, and of G-d. Basically, the same thing.

          I pray that all those that will be caught up in the coming events, will also come voluntarily to the same truth.

    • “but I don’t believe in laws forcing the rest of society to follow my christian beliefs, either, except abortion, that’s just murder.”

      You do realize you just blatantly contradicted yourself within the same sentence, right?

      On to important matters, I just made 2 comments without needing to reenter data, now this one, in the same thread, demands it. How is that even possible?

      • In what way did I contradict myself? Society is supposed to protect individual life, especially when that life is too young to protect itself. So just because that human life happens to reside inside a woman for up to nine months, before it goes on to possibly live for another 80 years, does not change that fact.

        • Oh wait, the mother has a window of only about five months to legally murder her child, out of a time of 80+ years, after that, the state steps in and can stop her from having an abortion.

          So that makes sense. A child is simply a benign tumor for five months that can be cut out of the body without legal consequence, but then suddenly after this magical moment, becomes a human being , and deserves legal protection. I guess for you, miracles are real, and what was not human can be transformed into a human being. Yeah, right.

        • Murder is a crime, with a legal definition, and that definition does not include abortion. Therefore, you *ARE* advocating laws based only on your silly religion, since otherwise a legal medical procedure is clearly none of your business. Thus, you contradicted yourself when you claimed you did not do such a thing, then gave a concrete example of the fact that you do. Is that clear enough English for you? Try responding with just how the question is any of your business, never mind why it seems to consume your life.

      • The data entry relies on cookies, and TTAG recently had a server (service provider) migration, and I think it messed some of them up. Some are still good, some are out of date. The trigger for me realizing this was that I’ve had no problem with TTAK, only TTAG.

        Clear your cookies back to the beginning of time, and try again. It sucked to have to relog into all my everyday sites, but it fixed my issues here.

        • it’s a thing w/ ttak as well.
          enjoy that new diploma.
          or at least congrats in advance.

  11. Good for her.

    Unfortunately, I still think California is a lost cause but if she can change the minds of others in her community maybe it’ll be a step back towards sanity.

  12. Moderates are worst than worthless.

    Some guy declares himself a pro-gun duck and we are supposed to trip all over ourselves.

    We believe in gun rights for all, even ducks!

    Quack quack.

  13. Wow.

    If you were born with a birth defect, say a hole in your heart, that’s okay.
    If you were born in a female body and you’re a male because of a defect in the chromosomes, that’s not okay.
    Since we don’t know today if it’s a birth defect, why are we judging? Are we judging because our leaders told us this is good but this is bad? Go to the source and ask to see things from his perspective. Nowhere is it written that you go to hell because someone else sins. So leave those people alone. Choose love, acceptance and empathy. That’s what the teachings really say. Read the book. The missionary position isn’t in there. 🙂

    • So we should stand by and watch as mentally ill people mutilate themselves and destroy their lives? Yeah… that doesn’t sound very Christian to me.

        • I’m not trying to take his guns. I want him to get better and have his guns and his sanity.

        • Anyone who has been involuntarily committed is forbidden by law from ever owning firearms again for the rest of their life. You *are* trying to take her guns away.

          You’re an enemy of 2A rights.

        • Jackboots gonna jackboot. You are advocating that the federal government force this person into a psychiatric ward and take away their firearms. They would be taken away forever. One of the disquallifiers on a 4473 asks whether you have been involuntarily committed. All because you don’t agree with this individuals lifestyle. It is laughable that you claim anti federal government leanings all of the time, but on this issue you are clearly a statist.

    • People can be tested for having XXY (Kleinfelter’s Syndrome). That’s an easy fix.

      Are you saying there are male brains and female brains? Surely you’re not saying men and women are intellectually different? That’s not very feminist of you.

      You know what people with Kleinfelter’s Syndrome can’t do? Have children,for the most part. That means they can’t have 4 or 5 kids like Bruce Jenner did. They also can’t win the Olympic Decathlon. They also can’t be members of Seal Team 6.

      The overwhelming majority of trannies are not suffering from some chromosmal disorder. They’re mentally ill, just as if they thought they were the Messiah, or that they were invincible. Do you believe psychiatrists should agree with their patients who suffer from apotemnophilia and want to have voluntary amputations of limbs?

      I mean, that person self-identifies as an amputee, and it’s their body, so they should be able to find a doctor who can amputate their leg, right?

      The quest to be PC and “accepting” is becoming insanity.

      • I don’t give a shit if they want to cut their arm off. It’s their arm.

        You know when I do care? When they want my tax dollars for their disability.

        Cut your parts off, they’re your parts. But your decision to voluntarily do so means you are on the automatic deny list for any kind of disability benefits relating to that decision.

        • No.The Hippocratic Oath states doctors must do no harm. Removing a perfectly healthy appendage on someone who is mentally ill is a clear violation of that.

          There was a story just recently about a woman who claimed she self-identified as blind. What did her psychiatrist do? Arranged for her to purchase the chemicals to blind herself, and encouraged her to do so.

          But some girl just encouraged her suicidal boyfriend to kill himself, and she’s going to do time.

          The only difference is a matter of semantics. What if someone self identifies as dead? Who is some shrink to tell them they’re wrong?

        • Or any manner of welfare, be prepared to support yourself or starve in the streets. Then go forth and enjoy yourself, or however much of it you care to retain.

        • Jean Claude says:
          August 6, 2017 at 13:27

          No.The Hippocratic Oath states doctors must do no harm. Removing a perfectly healthy appendage on someone who is mentally ill is a clear violation of that.

          that is a funny one!
          Because nowadays—thou shall pay my BILL or get dumped out on the street! Hospitals do it all the time!

  14. “We are actually understanding, polite, respectful, law-abiding and open-minded people”

    Obviously, Luis, you haven’t read these comments.

      • After all, all you want to do is see her locked up and deprived of her 2A rights for the rest of her life.

        • I don’t agree that successfully treated mental patients should be denied their 2nd Amendment rights. I just want to see people with clear mental issues get treatment that doesn’t increase their risk of suicide or massive medical complications.

        • Excuse me, serge, but you seem to be experiencing some sort of delusion.

          Aside from prescribing mind-altering psychotropic drugs, electro-shock “therapy” to burn out brain cells, or pre-frontal lobotomies to destroy the personality entirely, where are these so-called “successfully treated mental patients” you speak so fondly of?

          Psychologists are statisticians who try to predict behavior but have no real ability to alter it. Psychiatrists are charlatans with little or no capacity to effect any sort of cure other than those mentioned above. Psychotherapy is hit or miss and has often been shown to have no more effect than any other situation where a person feels free to discuss his problems with a sympathetic soul. Most people subjected to psychiatric treatments end up just taking some sort of drug to mask the symptoms and are never in fact “cured” of anything.

          And people consigned to mental institutions either remain there for the rest of their lives or they get miracle drugs that make them appear “normal” so long as they keep taking them, but NEVER make them feel normal.

          It is unlikely that the 40% quoted as suicides after surgery or hormones would not have been suicides anyway since they are so confused and unhappy with their lives. This may in fact be Nature’s way of dealing with “mistakes”, although the fact that they either cannot or will not reproduce seems to be a built in limiter at any rate.

          These people, for all their emotional problems, are no danger to you, so get off your fascist high-horse about what needs to be done to them “for their own good.” Their own good is not yours to decide.

    • Most here are (as I type this). There is a Statist who wants to see people whose lifestyle he disapproves of locked up by the millions, though.

      • There is definiately a mental case here and it sure isn’t Erin… pwrserge is downright dangerous!

        • Right… you support hummorinng the mentally ill and encouraging “treatment” that makes patient outcomes worse and I’M the “dangerous” one.

        • You’re the one who wants to lock up law-abiding citizens and deprive them of the 2A rights.

          Not me.

      • A brief review of their post history here and elsewhere over the years reveals either a pathetically dedicated troll or a rabid goddamn nutcase…

        • Me or Serge?

          😆

          Relax folks. Serge is just another dude on the Internet. I see TTAG as strictly entertainment and bs’ing with other commenters. Just like any other website. It’s not life. You don’t have to forcefully correct everybody you disagree with on the Internet.

    • I didn’t call out pwserge by name for a reason. My comment wasn’t personal.

      As for pwserge, I don’t think he’s delusional, I don’t think he’s a bad guy and I do believe that we shouldn’t go after our own.

      I just think that POTG are not as inclusive as the OP believes we are. As a result of this and for other reasons, we will always be marginalized.

  15. For me, being trans falls into the same category as being gay. Its nothing I want for myself, but I can’t think of any reason I should stop someone else from doing it.

    Over the years I’ve gotten to know a number of gay people. You know what I decided? They’re no threat to me.

  16. Ok. This is getting ridiculous. Will people quit chugging the haterade and actually read what I’m arguing?

    Do we agree that gender dysphoria is a mental illness?

    Do we agree that the end goal of any treatment for mental illness is improved patient outcomes?

    If both of the above are yes, than why do we support and approach THAT OBJECTIVELY DOESN’T HELP?

    I’m getting a little sick of people claiming I “hate” people for wanting them to get treatment that doesn’t result in an absurd suicide rate and doesn’t run the risk of massive medical complications. I don’t hate scitzophrenics just because I think they are better off on medication that keeps them connected to reality. Same way I don’t hate people with gender dysphoria just because I don’t think hummoring their delusions and allowing them to undergo ineffective treatment is a solution.

    • Do we agree that gender dysphoria is a mental illness?

      No. At best, there are one or two people above who agree with you on that statement, at least to my reading. Some folks disagree with gender dysphoria, and some are even made uncomfortable by it, but it appears you are just about the only one calling it a mental illness, and you are definitely the only one here arguing in favor of involuntary medical intervention.

      Also, couching it in terms that you’re arguing this point because you care about them, and you’re doing it for their own good, and you’re protecting them from themselves, is disingenuous at best. You’re doing it because in some way you are deeply and personally offended by it, or at least that’s how it appears to an outsider looking in.

      • If gender dysphoria is not a mental illness, why is it linked to massive medical issues and behavioral abnormalities.

        If we can’t even agree on the ground rules, we don’t have much to discuss. To me, you’re not different than a quack who tells a scitzo they are better off not taking their medication.

        • You know the difference between gender dysphoria and schizophrenia? Schizophrenia very often results in a danger to others. The same cannot be said for gender dysphoria. I’m not convinced that you can even call a result of that “danger to self,” but there’s certainly no danger to others, aside from “muh feelins.”

        • my little neighborhood tavern buddie’s wife recently stabbed herself repeatedly in and around the vajayjay. she is big time barefoot in the snow middle of the street asking for cigarette money naked loopy. she has now proven beyond a doubt that she is a danger to herself, and ultimately the kids and her husband.
          maybe having someone else do it for you isn’t self mutilation.
          of course, having your clit removed by your eritrean grandmother should probably get re- thought.

    • 1. No
      2. No
      3. Most psychiatry is absolutely worthless, especially since they’ve been doing little but throw pills at people. There is no panacea, and no magic cure for any kind of actual mental illness. Some people get ‘better,’ but it is on their own terms – not yours.

      The bottom line is that none of this is yours to decide, define or act on. You are welcome to your opinion, just as I am… but so is Erin. YOU don’t get to define or control her “mental health” or gender identity.

      And suicide isn’t any of your business either. YOU don’t get to choose for anyone but yourself. If you are attacked, defend yourself. Otherwise, other people’s “mental health” is none of your damned business.

      Get over it.

      • So you think it would be ok to let a dissociative scitzophrenic out on to the street knowing that they won’t take their meds and eventually hurt themselves or someone else? Well, we’re going to have to disagree. I can’t in good conscience stand by and encourage people to hurt themselves.

        • You keep making this reference to schizophrenia and then you bitch about other people using a straw man argument. Just admit that tranny’s make you uncomfortable and you don’t want to be lumped in with them. I get it. They make me uncomfortable as well. It certainly isn’t “normal” but that doesn’t mean we can take away someone’s rights if they haven’t been diagnosed with anything that would be dangerous to the general public.

        • As an FYI Serge, state-of-the-art in gender re-assignment surgery male into female entails ‘inverting’ the ‘member’, leaving the sensitive skin bits intact, but now internal.

          They can experience the sensation of orgasm when stimulated there.

          As apposed to Islamic female genital mutilation where the external clitoris is cut off, denying them the ability to orgasm as easily had the clitoris remained. That right there should be criminal.

          (And, I’m with you on gender re-assignment paid for by Uncle Sam in the military or incarcerated in prison. If they want it, let them pay for it themselves…)

        • Actually, these gender-reassignment surgeons need to be rounded up, licenses yanked and jailed.

    • Who in the hell are you to decide/define mental illness, ‘serge? I don’t know what motivates Erin to dress up in womens clothes, makeup and high-heels and quite frankly, it’s none of my, yours or anyone else’s business…
      You don’t remove citizens constitutional rights just because they don’t happen to live their life the way you think they should be living it!
      After reading all of your tirades on this, I would not at all be surprised if your idea of a perfect society was one that only had those with blonde hair and blue eyes, while the rest of us were labeled “defectives” that needed to be dealt with.
      I find your stance sickening and to put it bluntly, disgusting!!!

      But guess what, ‘serge? I still support your right to spew it and do not think you should have any constitutional rights removed for saying it….

  17. Well, pwrserge clearly has an axe to grind here. Show us on the doll where the internet hurt you, ‘serge.

    Just to be clear, because it appears to have been talked around, but not explicitly stated: In your mind this woman should be confined involuntarily? If so, why? What harm does she represent to you? If so, until what point? When is she allowed to be free?

    I’m gratified to see that while at a glance the volume of comments makes it appear there’s a large debate on this subject, a closer reading reveals that there really isn’t an intense debate. There’s a lot of comments because virtually every single person here disagrees with you, and you are engaging all of them individually. You are a voice crying alone in the wilderness.

    • Did you read what I just wrote? Why do you think I “hate” people just because I can objectively look at the data and oppose an approach THAT DOES NOT WORK? If gender reassignment surgery improved patient outcomes, I’d be all for it.

      I don’t agree that people who have been successfully treated should be denied their rights. However, that depends on the treatment being successful. If there was a way to magically turn the patient into the opposite gender (such as what’s being discussed with CRISPR retrovirus therapy) I would be the first to argue that said treatment should be made as widely available as possible. My disdain comes from the fact that GENDER REASIGNMENT SURGERY DOENS’T WORK. It makes someone who is severely mentally ill into a biological cripple that is dependent on massive doses of drugs whose long term effects are unknown. Worse, said treatment does not improve patient outcomes. The reason I think such people should be committed is to keep them from hurting themselves in a way that modern medicine cannot reverse.

      How dare I care about the long term quality of life for these people over short term feefees that don’t actually change the fact that almost half of them KILL THEMSELVES anyway? (Not to mention the ones who die as a direct result of the treatment.)

      If you can show me that the treatment you advocate objectively and significantly improves patient outcomes for these people, I’ll be the first to jump on your bandwagon. Until then, please quit projecting your own insecurities onto my arguments.

      • I never used the word HATE. I don’t think you hate them. I think you love them. To death. You love them so much that you can’t possibly let them be adults and make their own decisions. They must be protected, like children, because they know no better.

        You say it doesn’t work, but I know a couple of trans folks whose entire outlook on life changed for the better during and after their transition. They are quite literally different people. The plural of anecdote is not data, I know, but that knife cuts both ways. You say it doesn’t work, I say it does. We’re both right in certain cases, and we’re both wrong in some others. But I defy you to explain to me how involuntarily locking up an otherwise fully functioning adult human being is IN ANY WAY a solution that “works” for anything but making you feel better. THEY certainly wouldn’t say it works, being taken away from freedom and family. But as long as you feel better for protecting them from themselves, right?

      • Just admit it, ‘serge… You’re a bigot. You want to remove a citizen from society and lock them away in a mental ward, that has done absolutely nothing to anybody and done nothing whatsoever to indicate he/she is or will be a danger to anyone.

        You want this person locked away because YOU don’t approve of the way he/she wants to live his/her life. That makes you angry, as it does with all bigots, and you justify your actions by claiming to want to ‘help’ them… I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again.. It’s not people like Erin society has to be wary of. It is people like you!

      • He would be right, and you would be wrong. But like a good and true SJW you tend to over estimate the strength of your support.

        • Here’s a clue for you: “SJW” and “Libertarian” are not the same thing, and in fact are usually at odds.

        • Your ignorance is showing. SJWs by and large are after enforced “equality” for everyone (and by everyone I mean everyone that’s on their pet project list) with a large emphasis on “enforced,” while the libertarian ethos can basically be summed up as “you do you, and stay out of my business.”

          Those are nothing alike. Those are about as diametrically opposed viewpoints as I think you can have.

        • Except that both cultural Marxists and Libertardians cant grasp the reality of their visions for society are utopian pipe dreams that ignore human nature and are dependent on everyone thinking exactly the same.

          The minute anyone breaks the hive mind concept, both philosophies falls to pieces.

        • Libertarianism is, at its core, allowing anyone to think act any way they like as long as there’s no imposition of force on another.

          It couldn’t possibly be any more different from what is espoused by SJWs.

  18. For this this thread, a quote by Robert A. Heinlein on the subject of the control of others:

    “Political tags — such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth — are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort.”

  19. OK, pwserge, how about this to refute your “diagnosis”: The American Psychiatric Association, publisher of the DSM-5, states that “gender nonconformity is not in itself a mental disorder. The critical element of gender dysphoria is the presence of clinically significant distress associated with the condition.”
    And this: There is evidence suggesting that twins who identify with a gender different from their assigned sex may do so not only due to psychological or behavioral causes, but also biological ones related to their genetics or exposure to hormones before birth. I.e., these 2nd Amendment persons may not have a choice.
    Personally, I wonder why you’re so concerned about what others want to do with their genitalia. If it’s not your problem, why do you care? These persons are such a small percentage of Americans, why do you care? You’re entitled to your (vehement) opinion, but as long as she is pro 2A, I say, bully for her!

    • Yep, the DSM was changed due to politics.

      DSM-3 and ALL mental health professionals diagnosed it as a mental illness. Liberal politics are hurtful.

      • Yep, and at one time, homosexuality was declared a mental illness in DSMs. Maybe you think it still should be, huh?
        DSMs are updated and new knowledge of psychiatric diseases is made every year as our understanding of the brain grows. It ain’t simple like a broken femur to figure out.
        More germane would be the question as to why those who have such negative beliefs about these persons are so negative. A little (or a lot) introspection would be in order but closed minds aren’t likely to proceed in such investigations.
        I don’t pretend to understand why or how these folks feel the way they do but obviously they must do so very strongly to go through what they to, as Erin has. I do know, however, that they are not dangerous, anymore than anyone else, and even the briefest reading of the news reveals that others are more dangerous to TGs than vice versa.
        What they do and who they are…none of my business.

      • I think it should be. It was changed due to changing political winds and not the science behind the “adjustment.” Do you find it just a bit strange that “science” always seems to reflect whatever is politically popular at the moment?

  20. never thought of a vasectomy as leading to being disabled but i can’t disagree. towing the line on a literal viewpoint makes for an easily defended stance.
    my sister didn’t want kids. i thought of her as selfish and wish she had given me some more uncle bonuses. it cost her the first marriage, and staying on oral contraception along with a lifetime of smoking eventually killed her. i love her for doing what she wanted, and remain bitter that her departure was preventable. but smoker’s gonna huff.
    ever been to thailand? no shortage of hatooey there. they certainly seem comfortable with themselves. some of the comments above make me wonder about their suicide rates, especially post- op. perhaps heterosexuality is a false construct. it’s pretty easy to dig up examples of queer relations amongst our furrry woodland creatures.
    i have a friend who is stopping short of the surgery. this has not been the first reveal of this type in my life. it’s actually a motorcycling community that is supporting him the most. the biggest problem has been with pronoun gender. takes a little getting used to. now i have to ask him (sorry) if he (again) has suicidal thoughts.
    kids get their tongues split, have screws tapped into their craniums and stick frisbees in their earlobes. culturally it seems analogous to tribal women with stretched ring necks and big floppy lip discs. disabling? yeah. but normal for some. i think every one should be free to perform a little self mutilation now and then. i heard a man say that he missed his prince albert every day since he took it out. i don’t think he was dangerous to anyone.
    and if i had a rack like that in the foto, i’d never leave the house.

    • “never thought of a vasectomy as leading to being disabled but i can’t disagree.”

      As far as I’m concerned from my male POV, a vasectomy is rather *empowering*, especially if you consider the expense an unplanned child will cost, easily in the hundreds of thousands until adulthood… 🙂

      • tip of the iceberg, yeah. “just the tip” might go out the window if i was sterile.
        i’m confidant in saying i agree, empowering for me because the misguided wretch might want part of the special delivery to be missing a few million undesirable components.
        but disabling nonetheless, to the naturalized citizens point.

        • oddly enough, someone who has never read this site just texted me asking, “if a man gets a vasectomy, is he considered disseminated?”

  21. Not sure hero is the right word to describe Erin. Her identity as a trans-woman means that she is taking less of a risk than a straight white male voicing her opinion in San Francisco. Perhaps a better word would be paragon. She is a great example of the utility of armed self defense and it’s applicability to everyone no matter their identity. Of course her status as trans shatters the leftist narrative that LGBT+ etc are all anti-gun, which is delightful. Kudos for her for being so public in her views regarding her circumstance, in any case, that is gutsy.

    • Honestly? The reaction to my political heresy is even worse. It’s a poorly-known fact that leftist tolerance of their pet minorities only extends to those that openly espouse the Narrative, and those that stray are savaged far worse than ones already implicitly assumed to be privileged. You should come to a rally and watch the leftist counter-protesters reaction when I tell them I’m trans, they absolutely snap and have screaming meltdowns aimed at me.

  22. I am a libertarian at heart. I don’t like everything society does, but I’m pretty sure society doesn’t like everything I do or believe. I think that it is not a right of mine to call someone out and tell them that they are ‘crazy’ and should be locked up. Does pwrserge worry that one day he may be called ‘crazy’ and locked up? What if the majority think he should? He certainly is not helping his cause with his self-righteous attitude towards others.

    I find Erin to be delightful in her view of her world, and how both sides react to her transformation. I could care less. I’m not thrilled that I pay for it, but I do not attack her for being who she is. She is welcome to any and all of the rights due to any American of sound mind (pwrserge maybe not so much!) I found her to intelligent and articulate and able to do so concerning the attitudes of the left and the right. I’ll shoot next to her anytime.

    • “I think that it is not a right of mine to call someone out and tell them that they are ‘crazy’ and should be locked up.”

      That is not a libertarian position. And it is a right of yours to do so. A 1A right.

  23. I personally welcome Erin and anyone else who wishes to exercise their their 2nd Amendment rights safely and professionally.

    To pwrserge:

    Now, while I may not agree with many of Erin’s political positions, the beauty of American is that I don’t have to agree with her. Just because she is transgender and has surgically changed her body does not make her mentally ill or a danger to society in any way. While it may not be the most conservative position, I personally believe that people here in America have the right to do what they want to their bodies. As long as I don’t have to listen to someone rub it my face, be told by crazy leftsts that I have to accept it and my tax dollars don’t pay for it, I really don’t care what someone does to their own body. As far as I’m concerned, if someone wants to change their body (ie. abortion, transgender sugery, plastic surgergy, etc…) and the surgery is done on their own dime then that is their business. If they later realize it was a mistake then it is their problem to deal with, not mine. Again, the beauty of America is that we as free people have the right to pretty much do what we want, when we want, how we want within the law. And the law in America today says that people have the right to change their bodies, whether you agree with that or not is irrelevant because they have the right. By taking transgender people and throwing them into a mental facility under the guise of helping them just because you believe they have some mental disorder that science can’t prove really exists means you are denying them the freedoms guarenteed to them. It was not so long ago in America that people with mental disorders and people believed to have mental disorders were thrown into institutions where the living conditions were horrid and unspeakable things happened to them simply because they were different. People being different is what makes America what it is.

    I have know several transgender people in my life, all of them in various stages of the transformation. Not a one of them was any danger to themselves or to others. I know according to statistics a large percentage of transgender people are a danger to themselves but that needs to handled on a case to case basis. Simply lumping everyone with a certain characteristic into one group and assuming they all have a problem can turn into a real problem and as history has taught us too much of this behavior can end up in thousands or even millions being killed (ie. The Trail of Tears and Indian Removal, The Holocaust, Great Purge, genocide in Rwanda and Cambodia) just to name a few. I personally believe that so many of the transgender community take their own lives because we live in a very intolerant socieity where members of both the left and the right of the political spectrum believe that their methods and beliefs are the only correct methods and beliefs. This is just one more reason to get rid of the 2 party duopoly that we have in America today.

    • Thanks for the kind words, but honestly you don’t know most of my opinions. I know it’s a reasonable assumption to look at a transwoman with facial piercings that lives in the Bay area and assume they’re at best moderate, but moderates don’t exactly regularly troll leftists with Pinochet memes.

  24. Most of the comments to this point distract from the reason the article made its way to TTAG in the first place and that’s unfortunate.

    We should be focusing on Erin’s message: When supporting the RKBA The people who claimed to be supporters of freedom became verbally and potentially physcally violent against those who didn’t align themselves with their beliefs. Encounters with people who identify as conservatives showed them to be tolerant of Erin’s life choice because the right to personal freedom trumps personal bias.

    It’s not about transgender, sexual preference, religion or skin color; it’s about all of them – and more. To paraphrase: “it’s about personal freedom, stupid”. As POTG we need to extend that philosophy to all of our conversations about the 2A (and all other CA’s). That seemed to me to be the meat (pun intended) of Erin’s article.

    BTW, the concept of “locking them up” (involuntary institutionalization) runs contrary to that same philosophy. Those that think it’s a good idea but claim to be RKBA supporters should be ashamed of themselves.

      • Probably not the biggest but still pretty big. I likes my steaks and my beer. I’m sure there’s a lot more competition in TX.

        If I were to relocate that’s one of the states I would consider. Finances, employment, family, etc. keep me here.

        “Big Dave” is a nick name given to me by a long time childhood friend (he’s vertically challenged). Haven’t seen him in a long while so I use the moniker to remember him.

  25. There are known known’s and there are known unknown’s and there are unknown unknown’s
    perhaps there are those who have gender dysphoria. Maybe gender dysphoria is a unknown
    known we have yet to explore.

  26. What an endless bizarre thread. “Erin” craves approval. Just like homosexual “couples” need/want agreement.Just like democrats or liberals. I will never “agree” but I support your 2A rights. That’s about it for ME.

    • If you had any idea of my social media posting style, you’d realize how dumb the assertion that I crave approval is. I’ve had death threats, and been doxed to hell and back in a dozen or so character assassination threads in places as varied as Daily Stormer, 4chan/8chan, and various LGBT forums, all basically for my confrontational style and open disagreements with the orthodoxy.

      • Well, whether you crave approval or not, you have mine, just for being yourself.

        I never cease to be amazed by the number of people who say they value individual liberty and freedom above all else, but would gladly seize liberty and freedom from people who offend their delicate sensibilities. It is complete hypocrisy. You are either in favor of individual freedom and liberty, or you are not. There is no middle ground. If somebody is not a danger to themselves or others, leave them the hell alone.

  27. My sister-in-law had mastectomy surgery a few days ago. Does this mean that instead of bringing her home yesterday we should have taken her straight to a mental institution after she “hacked off her own breast”?

    I’ve known a few people whose genetic wiring somehow got crossed and they ended up being women in men’s bodies. As far as I’m concerned, it’s no different from some unfortunate born with a cleft palate, spina bifida, or any other of the genetic defects which can be corrected by the miracles of modern surgery.

    • Unless you knew people with Kleinfelter’s Syndrome,which is fairly rare, no you did not. They weren’t “women born in men’s bodies”.They were people with mental illnesses.

      Do you think Rachel Dolezal was a black woman born in a white woman’s body?

      • No, I think Rachel Dolenzal is genuinely mentally ill because I don’t see anything about her which would indicate that she is genetically Negro. On the other hand, the few “women in men’s bodies” I’ve known have been fine-boned like a woman and more to the point, exhibited appearance and conduct which was decidedly feminine. Do you not believe that is a case of a genetic error rather than mental illness? Are the people who have the genetically-related anomalies and malformations simply mentally ill? I don’t think so.

    • “I’ve known a few people whose genetic wiring somehow got crossed and they ended up being women in men’s bodies”

      So, you’ve known some mentally ill people. This line you’re spouting is politically correct BS.

      Involuntary commitment of such sick people is a bridge too far for me, but they most certainly need help. The acceptance and even validation of their condition does nobody any good.

      • Eric – Well, I hope that you can psychoanalyze those people over the Internet better than you can somehow divine that I am by any stretch of the imagination PC. That assertion would put anyone who truly knows me into hysterics.

        Are there the “gender confused” people who are simply mentally ill? There’s no doubt in my mind that there are, and likely these days it’s the majority of those unfortunates. However, how about the people whose gender confusion is occasioned not only for psychological reasons but those which are unquestionably physiological? There are a rare group of people whose genetic make-up somehow went haywire as it sometimes does and they ended up with incomplete male genitalia but are female in the rest of their physiology and their psychological make-up who are caught in a netherworld of sexual confusion. They DO exist and all of the psychoanalysis and treatment in the world isn’t going to “fix” them, though gender-reassignment surgery just might. .

  28. Hate to say it, serge, but I’m going to have to agree with Chris Mallory on this one. You weren’t born here and you need to go.

    Communist Russian culture is not needed here.

    Self mutilation? I hate tats and piercings. I guess I could advocate for those folk to be imprisoned or punished in some way. But it ain’t none of my business so I step back and shut up.

    Suicide? Ain’t my thing. But people should have total control of their lives. Including when to end said life.

    Freedom is messy and scary.

    • Tattoos and other body modifications are now mutilation? They permanently degrade the function of the body?

      • They alter the body you were born with. You know, like cutting off your dick. They are a completely unneeded and self inflicted change. Like cutting your dick off.

        Interesting that you think that being surgically altered from male to female “permanently degrades your body”. Is the person wheelchair bound afterwards?

        • I think you’re taking the tattoos/piercings = cutting off your dick thing a bit far there. That connection is tenuous.

          Also, I wasn’t commenting on sex reassignment surgery at all. I was merely pointing out that tattoos and piercings don’t meet the definition of “mutilate” because they don’t permanently injure, cripple, cut off or destroy part of, seriously damage or permanently degrade the function of the body.

          As such, referring to such intentional body modifications as a form of “mutilation” is a bit strong.

        • Maybe a bit strong. But we’re talking, not just you and I, but everybody in this thread about how much control we have over our own body’s and how we choose to treat them.

          To some folk reassignment surgery is extreme. To me body piercings and tats are extreme. I don’t want my view of what’s extreme or Serges view of what’s extreme to be the law of the land.

          Our bodies are ours. If we’re not free to do as we please with them, no matter how extreme someone else may view our ideas, then how free are we?

          I see a lot of folks on this site howling with rage at one right being stepped on but those same folk joyfully step on others rights.

          A person’s home is supposed to be their castle, to mangle a meme slightly. What about their body?

        • I would argue that people can do whatever they want with their body. My issue with the word “mutilation” in your post stems from the fact that I firmly believe that words have definite meanings and we can’t just go changing them willy nilly without ending up in a situation where no one knows WTAF is actually being discussed. Definitions for words are, IMHO, the ground rules for language and discussion. You can’t go changing them around any more than you can start calling cross checking an RBI triple or calling a 3-pointer a first down. That’s just a pet peeve of mine. /end rant on language

          That said, Serge brings up a point that no one seems to want to address which is the link between transgenderism (diction??) and suicide. Some estimates suggest that upwards of 40% of transgender folks end up killing themselves. Now, is that because “transgender conditions” are a mental illness or is because they’re related to something that is (like clinical depression)? I’m not one to say because I have zero credentials in that area and I really haven’t studied it very much.

          What I can say for sure is that when you start seeing suicide rates that high in a specific subset of the population it’s doubtful that the link is casual. It may not be causal but that kind of correlation is too strong to simply dismiss.

          That’s where we start getting into really sticky territory. Do people have the right to take their own life? In my book they absolutely do. However, a great many of those people can probably avoid the suicide route if they get help. What help? I have no idea because,again, I haven’t really studied the whole transgender issue. Either way, while those people might have the right to take their life do we not have some sort of obligation towards our fellow men/woman/whatever to attempt to dissuade them from doing so if what they’re going through is a “rough patch” so to speak? I would liken it to a 1A issue: Killing yourself when you could seek help and avoid it is absolutely your right but just like walking into a predominantly black bar and yelling “Fuck you n*****s!”, it’s probably not a wise decision. Again, I your right but probably not smart.

          I really don’t know what the solution is with this what with our court and mental health systems being so fucked up. Due to my views on personal rights I believe it has to be decided on a case by case basis. That said, every one of those people that kills themselves when they *wouldn’t* (we can never really know for sure) have with proper help is a goddamn tragedy which is what serge seems to be trying to address and you have to applaud that sort of effort even if the strategy he picks is misguided in your opinion or in my opinion.

          Regardless, we already have systems in place to take people who are a threat to themselves, and with proper legal procedures, involuntarily commit them to a facility in an attempt to help them. While I personally believe that serge’s idea to do such a thing across the board is way, way too broad we’re going to have to admit that even seeking to involuntarily commit an individual transgender person, not because they’re transgender but because they’re suicidal, is going to open a very messy political can of worms due to the knee jerk nature of the very arguments you see in on this board. Taking that person into a court proceeding to commit them is going to turn into the new version of “It’s because I’m black, isn’t it?” very rapidly.

          All that said, what I took out of the article is that this person found far more acceptance with POTG than with the far Left, which doesn’t surprise me very much. While there are assholes in every group of people I generally think that POTG, especially in the TTAG comment section, are far more willing to at least attempt rational discourse even when opinions may be wildly different. It sort of saddens me to see people simply call others a “bigot” rather than asking “OK, what does this person actually mean and does their opinion have any value in any cases and, even if it doesn’t hold any value, what can I learn from this discourse?”.

        • Let’s see if this one avoids that stupid spam filter…

          I would argue that people can do whatever they want with their body. My issue with the word “mutilation” in your post stems from the fact that I firmly believe that words have definite meanings and we can’t just go changing them willy nilly without ending up in a situation where no one knows WTAF is actually being discussed. Definitions for words are, IMHO, the ground rules for language and discussion. You can’t go changing them around any more than you can start calling cross checking an RBI triple or calling a 3-pointer a first down. That’s just a pet peeve of mine. /end rant on language

          That said, Serge brings up a point that no one seems to want to address which is the link between transgenderism (diction??) and suicide. Some estimates suggest that upwards of 40% of transgender folks end up killing themselves. Now, is that because “transgender conditions” are a mental illness or is because they’re related to something that is (like clinical depression)? I’m not one to say because I have zero credentials in that area and I really haven’t studied it very much.

          What I can say for sure is that when you start seeing suicide rates that high in a specific subset of the population it’s doubtful that the link is casual. It may not be causal but that kind of correlation is too strong to simply dismiss.

          That’s where we start getting into really sticky territory. Do people have the right to take their own life? In my book they absolutely do. However, a great many of those people can probably avoid the suicide route if they get help. What help? I have no idea because,again, I haven’t really studied the whole transgender issue. Either way, while those people might have the right to take their life do we not have some sort of obligation towards our fellow men/woman/whatever to attempt to dissuade them from doing so if what they’re going through is a “rough patch” so to speak?

          I really don’t know what the solution is with this what with our court and mental health systems being so fucked up. Due to my views on personal rights I believe it has to be decided on a case by case basis. That said, every one of those people that kills themselves when they *wouldn’t* (we can never really know for sure) have with proper help is a goddamn tragedy which is what serge seems to be trying to address and you have to applaud that sort of effort even if the strategy he picks is misguided in your opinion or in my opinion.

          Regardless, we already have systems in place to take people who are a threat to themselves, and with proper legal procedures, involuntarily commit them to a facility in an attempt to help them. While I personally believe that serge’s idea to do such a thing across the board is way, way too broad we’re going to have to admit that even seeking to involuntarily commit an individual transgender person, not because they’re transgender but because they’re suicidal, is going to open a very messy political can of worms due to the knee jerk nature of the very arguments you see in on this board. Taking that person into a court proceeding to commit them is going to turn into the new version of “It’s because I’m black, isn’t it?” very rapidly.

        • I agree with most of your line of thought. Whether Serge is being a humanitarian or just playing statist Russian strongman is subject to debate. He tends to get wound up and has a no prisoners taken attitude when he’s on a roll.

          As for mutilation? What’s the boundary and is it set in stone?Is a surgical procedure performed in a state of the art medical facility a mutilation? As opposed to a permanent and highly visible tat applied in a low rent emporium on the wrong side of the tracks? Do we view a person that does the body mods as mentally ill?

          That high of a percentage of suicides in that group is terrible. But how much power do we give the state to intervene? If family, friends, the church, etc. cannot persuade this person otherwise does the .gov have to be involved?

          These are questions I struggle with . Do I have the right to impose my will on another simply because I believe strongly that I’m right?

          Wanting to surgically convert my sex is so far out of the realm of my norm that I really am struggling with this issue. If this is truly mental illness then such a person needs our support. Or at least such a person doesn’t deserve our scorn or abuse.

          Can we, speaking of our society here, intervene in this persons life without unleashing the full weight of the .gov on them?

          These decisions are way above my pay grade.

        • Before strych9 posted his position on this issue, pwrserge’s position most closely approximated my own.

          I believe that a group that has a 40% suicide rate has something wrong with it. I believe people have a limited obligation to help one another. I believe saying “good for you” to someone who has done something that doesn’t help them isn’t helping them. I don’t believe in the right to suicide, but I don’t think there is much we can do to help someone who is set on killing themselves. I don’t believe someone who is only suicidal should be institutionalized. I also don’t believe we have a proper system in place for institutionalizing people who are a danger to themselves and others.

  29. Change whatever you want on your body. Just don’t ask for my support or approval. And don’t ask me to pay for it. And don’t get offended when I get up and quietly leave when you enter the room.

    • While I have no argument with your “Do what you want, just don’t ask me to pay for it” philosophy, I am curious:

      Why do you leave a room if someone who’s transgendered enters?

      I’m not offended in the slightest, but I am puzzled.

      • See Hal, this is why guys like you differ from guys like me. You think my reasons for anything are your business. You aren’t getting the “leave us alone” part of “Live your life as you like: We will leave you alone and you leave us alone”.

        • You were the one who said that you would leave the room if a trans person walked in, and you did so on a public forum.

          How is asking you about that “making it my business”? If you don’t want your actions to be discussed, don’t bring them up here.

        • Yeahhh you can’t really throw out strong opinions on a forum and act all offended when people ask what your rationale is.

  30. “…a conservative gun-owning American who happens to be a transgender.”

    Reality check time. A person can just happen to be Caucasian, they can just happen to have dwarfism, they can just happen to have red hair. But no one just “happens to be” a transgender. A person needs to make a series of permanent, body mutilating decisions to become transgender. To describe them as if they were born that way undermines your credibility.

    I don’t see any reason to deny the right of self-defense to those who live a life of pretense. If a transgender person asked me to help him/her learn to safely handle firearms, I would gladly offer instruction.

    Let’s not let the point of this essay escape us. The author has observed what most of us already know. Those of us on the right are infinitely more tolerant of diverging opinions than the left. The left wing’s self-awarded title as the champions of tolerance is nothing more than a living hypocrisy.

  31. Read the whole post looking for some heroic feat. Saved her unit in Afghanistan or Iraq or something. But nothing.

    “That the people of the gun, the defenders of the Second Amendment aren’t hate-filled bigots, phobics, and racists.”

    Some are, some aren’t.

  32. I don’t think the core of this article is people getting all Caitlyn Jennered out but I can see how that quickly becomes a distraction. I think the thrust of the article, which we should focus on, is that POTG are generally a pretty accepting group. We don’t much care about your fashion sense, sexuality, what you drive, how much money you have or much of anything else. For the most part the attitude in the gun community is “You have guns? I have guns! Let’s go shoot some motherfucking guns! Afterwords we can drink some beers and talk about shooting guns! Did I mention guns!? Do we need ammo before we hit the range? Also, guns!”.

    POTG also generally tend to be some of the most courteous and polite people around. As a friend of mine pointed out one time “The only place you hear “Sir” and “Ma’am” more than a gun range is in the military”. Largely I find that to be true.

    Personally, I think that the whole “trans” issue is what it is not because of transgender people (other than a few militants like that “Die Cis Scum” asshole). Trans people are just another step along the trail blazed by “drag queens”. The issue is as big as it is because the Left is trying to use it as a cudgel to swing at anyone they don’t like politically. Trans is, according to the Left, a protected class so disagreeing with anything the Left has to say about “trans” people is “bigoted” or some other bullshit designed to shut down any debate or argument.

    Irregardless of the topic, it’s MHO that debate and argument are healthy and part of the openness you find in the gun community is displayed right here on TTAG by the fact that there are arguments and varied opinions on the topic of transgender folks yet as heated as those arguments are RF isn’t rolling through here censoring opinions even if the presentation of those arguments might be a bit OTT.

    Of course it’s not every POTG that’s nice, friendly and welcoming. Some are assholes. That’s how groups of people work.

    • Strychnine, you generally write what I would write if I had the patience and ability to do so. But I have neither. Good comment. Thanks.

      • Oh, well, thank you.

        Honestly, some days I just come here for the comment section. I think we all do that to some degree.

  33. Erin Smith supports the 2nd Amendment unequivocally and for that I will support her. I’ve met some crazy SOB’s in my day and they were straight as an arrow and espoused Marxism as the way to save humanity. Since Erin Smith is on the right and is an avowed enemy of Marxism I would stand shoulder to shoulder with her and fight the good fight any day. The left has become a cesspool of Marxist thought (Death Cult) and must be stopped. What we see today in Washington D.C. is a horror show where a duly elected president is going to be destroyed by the political elite. And don’t kid yourself they will run him from office. Parts of the Republican party have decided to throw their support behind the Marxist a vile political system that always ends in death.

    Today the Marxist Purge began in Venezuela. The reports (Propaganda) coming from the country say it was an attack by rebels. The truth will eventually come out and it will show that the communist killed their own soldiers who spoke against the Marxist president. That is where we are headed and it is not to far down the road. Every gun counts.
    Semper Fi

  34. Some severely bigoted FLAME DELETED on this site… Way to be the stereotypes the media associates with all gun owners, guys! So proud to be in the same community… :-

    • You still watch the Fake News? They’d drive the stereotype of fascist neo-Confederates who want to re-enslave blacks being gun owners regardless of who was posting on this site.

      • Yes, you overinflate the impact on human society of a comment section on one quadrillionth of the internet. Seriously, it doesn’t matter. This isn’t life.

  35. I’m not going to dive into the flame war as I have some more errands to run today before I turn in for the night. However, I’d like to say I support Pwrserge. If someone said, “I identify as a one-legged person so I’m going to the doctor to get my left leg removed at the hip,” anyone here on this board would categorize that person as insane. Wanting to cut off your dick is the same thing but is viewed differently because of SJWs and radical libertarianism.

    This person should not have been highlighted by TTAG, and they should be locked up and treated until they’re better. For those saying, “that’s anti-2nd Amendment because you lose your gun rights for involuntary institutionalization,” that’s a case where the law should be changed so the individual can have their gun rights back once they’re better. But ONLY once they’re better.

    If this is some strange ploy by TTAG to get more liberals to support gun rights because, “Hey look, we like trannies too!” it’s not going to work.

    • I’m suspecting it’s a strange ploy for clicks. You know, analytics. To set advertising fees.

      • I think TTAG is progressive/liberal, sure this thing was click bait, but the undercurrent around here is normalizing the lefts favorite deviants…special snowflake of the month likes guns to, just like you and me.

        Next week Tom from NAMBLA will be the gun hero of the week. He will explain how his attraction to children is very normal and natural AND Tom is a big 2nd amendment guy.

  36. Man, this thread went downhill fast. Bottom line is most gun owners are more tolerant than liberals, especially the antifa types that ARE fascists.

  37. I wonder if Erin can get away with declaring that he’s black as well?

    LOL, oh the hilarity that ensues when the special snow flakes start stepping on each other’s…toes…have to go with toes in this case.

  38. Once there was a duck who thought he was a dog.

    It happens on rare occasions because of an occurrence in young ducks called “imprinting.” You see, when a duckling is hatched, its brain takes a “snapshot” of the first living thing it sees; from that point forward, the duckling identifies very strongly with whatever imprinted it.

    Usually, a duckling imprints on its mother and spends his young life following her around and his adult life acting just like her. After all, he IS a duck, why would he not act like one?

    But one unfortunate duckling did not imprint on his mother. When he was hatched, a friendly dog was close by. Certain he had found his mother, he followed the dog over to a porch, under which they both lay during the heat of the day.

    The duck and his mother spent many days lying beneath the porch. They spent cool evenings swimming in the pond and dark nights howling at the moon.

    As the summer passed and the duckling grew, he would stretch out his wings and even flap them. Once he even took off into the air and quite scared himself, as everyone knows that dogs cannot fly. He landed quickly and hurried back under the porch. He certainly did not tell his mother what he had done.

    But as he thought about his adventure, he started to grow confused about himself and his place in the world. Because though he still enjoyed barking at passing cars and running up to whomever climbed out of one with his tail feathers wagging, he also had a strange and growing desire to take flight again. He also felt drawn by ducks when they landed on the pond, not to retrieve them as dogs are bred to do, but to meet them, mingle with them, and maybe even (gasp) fly away with them.

    One day, while his mother was asleep beneath the porch, he waddled down to the pond and introduced himself to a trio of ducks that had just landed on it. They expressed surprise to meet another duck here, as they had flown for days without seeing another of their kind.

    “But I’m not a duck at all,” he said. “I’m a dog.” His new companions laughed at the obvious joke, but when he neither laughed nor smiled, their faces grew confused. So he told them of his life as a dog, lying beneath the porch and barking at cars. He continued explaining until one of the ducks stopped him by raising a wing. It looked exactly like his own.

    “Despite your experiences and belief,” one of them said. “You are a duck. You have feathers and wings and a bill as ducks have but dogs do not.” His companions quacked their agreement.

    “Perhaps some dogs have feathers,” he argued, though weakly, for deep down he knew they were correct. Despite his love for his mother, and despite all the fun he’d had growing up like a dog, he could see the objective fact that he was not a dog at all. He was not even a dog trapped in a duck’s body, as if there could be such a thing. He was merely a confused duck. He could accept his nature, or he could fight it, but he could not truly change it.

    Once there was a man who thought he was a woman…

    https://www.menofthewest.net/fable-duck-dog/

    • Too bad that duck wasn’t in the Army. He could have received species reassignment surgery for free.

    • The fundamental flaw with that analogy is that male and female humans are the same species, while ducks and dogs are rather taxonomically divergent.

      There’s also an ontological question about what it means when we say something is a duck or a dog, and then there’s the pragmatic question about how to treat a dog that can not visually resemble a duck so well it’s hard to distinguish between the two, but also fulfill the role well enough in day to day life that it’s simply easier for practical reasons to treat the dog as it were actually a duck.

  39. I liked reading what Erin had to say. Erin has a lot of guts publishing her beliefs. I have a lot of respect for that. I hope Erin joins the NRA and continues to find all the benefits and joys the Second Admentment gives us all. One more to the fold makes all stronger.

  40. A well written, logically presented, and thoroughly reasoned report of one’s personal experience and treatment from both camps of the 2A issue.
    That’s what I read. The message. That’s the thing requiring focus.

    The messenger is NOT the thing.

  41. its amazing how little self control some people have. they can not let someone else simply voice their opinion. everything must be turned into a argument about how right they think they are.

    I’m glad yet another person cherishes their Constitutional Rights.

  42. “… the manner conservatives responded when approached with a modicum of courtesy and respect. …most were more than happy to reciprocate”

    Courtesy is a conservative virtue.

    “But even with the ones that told me they didn’t agree with my transition, they often were at least courteous about disagreeing, along with freely admitting I had the right to do it.”

    That’s a fundamentally (classical) liberal position. Besides there’s “conservative” as a portfolio of policy positions, “conservative” as a goal, and “conservative” as essentially a strategy. Classical liberal “conservatives” tend to work policy questions through the filters: Is it your business? What’s the cost? What’s the risk?

    — Our not-actually-liberal friends love talking about a mostly exaggerated, and far from universal portfolio of positions. Banning this or that, for example. Many self-identified conservatives won’t seek to ban even things they personally disapprove of. Classical liberals need a reason for why something is our general business, not the other way around.

    — Our at-least-admitting-what-they’re-about “progressive” friends have a particular position about “conservative as in conserve what we have.” It sucks. Everything that we have, everything that is. Literally anything they can do — progress — will be better. There is nothing worth “conserving”, so there’s never any cost to new stuff. Besides, they’re so smart they are never wrong. Literally everything they can imaging doing is “progress.” It must be nice to have never made a mistake. I’m not that smart.

    — They can’t even wrap their heads around “conservative” as a strategy: small changes with lots of checking results, and ideally a way back at all times. If you think the world complex, and our understanding limited ya figure most things you try won’t quite work out. “It worked before” becomes a much stronger argument when you don’t think you have the mind of god. Your biggest concern when trying something new is the risks you can’t see. Like, perhaps, monetary, banking asset and housing support policies that might contribute mighty energy to a massive financial system collapse. Just spit-balling here.

    Lots of people who say “conservative” mean “reactionary”, which you think they’d know; that being a lovely, accurate term our Marxist friends have given us. Most conservatives aren’t actually reactionaries, let alone revanchists. Our current comrades can’t tell the difference, but that’s really just them being blinded by their own ideology.

    • Fundamentally, the left is about top-down complexity and strict planning, while the right is about bottom-up heuristic tinkering and flexibility. 2nd and 3rd order effects also don’t fit into leftist conceptual space.

  43. It is simply amazing to me how many people on this site instantly fall for the arguments of the left. They set the boundaries of the playing field and we then play within it. The left wants to turn every societal norm on its head and so 10 years ago they say “gays can marry” or a “man can be a woman because he thinks it is so.” To say that a man is a women because the man suddenly feels that way is simply mental illness. It is as the Catholic Church teaches, objectively disordered. All of you here who support this person with mental illness are like starry eyed teenage girls dancing with the stud high school QB. You look past the facts of the situation just so you can say “I am tolerant and open minded.” You are dancing to the leftist playbook just to for once feel like you are part of the “good” team. Well the facts of the matter is that a man is not a woman and vice versa. We can continue to turn every sacred pillar of our culture on its head but don’t be surprised if the outcome is continued destruction of our society. Why should we defend firearms due to past traditions and philosophy if we can’t even defend the fact that a man is a man and a woman is a woman? I rarely agree with pwrserge but on this one he is 100% right. As many a man better than me said the truth is the truth and in the end it will be made known. Sad that after 2000+ years of western society we have to continue to learn the lessons we once knew.
    “The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.”
    Winston Churchill
    Any of you defending this cretin are either malicious or ignorant. Sorry but those are the facts.
    Do any of you like to see men compete with women in athletic sporting events? Why has no woman ever played in the MLB, NFL, or major league soccer? Just because someone feels like they are something it means that they are? I know a whole lot of little girls that will never be able to succeed at any sports if boys are suddenly allowed on the girls team.

  44. Well, good for him. But as long as he’s got that pesky Y chromosome he’s still a dude pretending to be a woman. But if it works for him so be it. He pulls it off a hell of a lot better than the dude across the street. Middle aged men should really think about how ugly a woman they’d make before making the switch.

    • That works. Men can only turn into women if they can turn into hot women. If not then they have to stay men.

      • I don’t know, I think I could make a good argument to the opposite stance. At least the middle aged dudes aren’t actually fooling anybody. But I have to say, he was out cutting the grass in a halter top a couple weeks ago as I drove by and I kind of threw up in my mouth a little.

        • Thanks gov, and frankly I agree with you. The people often known as “transtrenders” are the ones insisting on getting in front of cameras screeching about SJW stuff and generally causing problems, and those of us that just want to live our lives catch fragments from the blowback. Unfortunately I think it’s necessary for the sane and reasonable trans people to stand up and start pushing back against the radicals that insist on dragging us along with them.

          And for the record, I’m an NRA life member with 468 hours of formal instruction from some of the top trainers in the business, so guns aren’t anything new to me.

        • I think y’all would be suprised how many non-SJW trans people are perfectly willing to admit their biological sex doesn’t actually change, in fact one of the biggest shitposters on this topic is a 100% passable and incredibly beautiful MTF friend of mine with a legit big-name modeling contract. The best meltdowns ever usually come when a purple-wigged ogre with problem glasses posts a screeching reply to one of her facebook truth bombs that “I’m a real woman!” Then she comes back with something like “no, I’m still totes a dude. And so are you sweetie”

        • Not all that brushed up on the subject, but I’m convinced that the shitdesturbers are generally not even trans or homosexual, but anti-Christian atheists. If you want tolerance you always had that. If you want acceptance you’ve had that for quite a while now. What the SJWs want is forced celebration of something a certain religious group believes to be sinful. Kind of like when Nebuchadnezzar threw the three Hebrews in the furnace for not bowing down to his idol. You can have your God as long as he submits to our God. The anti-Christian bigotry becomes glaringly obvious when the same people start throwing around words like ‘Islamaphobic’. This BTW, is coming from a guy who considers himself a non-practicing Christian (not active in any church anyway). Bigotry is bigotry regardless if it’s against a religion or a lifestyle or a skin tone. I don’t think the average LGBTQ person is that filled with vitriol.

          Anyway, the gun owning community is a big tent and you’re completely welcome to join (IMHO).

        • Thanks gov, and frankly I agree with you. The people often known as “transtrenders” are the ones insisting on getting in front of cameras screeching about SJW stuff and generally causing problems, and those of us that just want to live our lives catch fragments from the blowback. Unfortunately I think it’s necessary for the sane and reasonable trans people to stand up and start pushing back against the radicals that insist on dragging us along with them.

          And for the record, I’m an NRA life member with 468 hours of formal instruction from some of the top trainers in the business, so guns aren’t anything new to me.

  45. Sorry, but not quite understanding how your sexual preference, or what you choose to have planted, implanted, grafted, or imagined between your legs has any bearing upon your 2nd amendment rights. It’s a complete non-issue.

    • It shouldn’t, unfortunately in the eyes of many it does. I’ve been called a nazi white supremacist and traitor by violent Antifa terrorists, simply because I don’t follow the political narrative required of trans people. This op ed is me explaining why I don’t follow that narrative.

      • Enh. As a trans second amendment supporter myself, I’ve seen folks on the left that are about as reasonable as folks on the right, and happily hang out with both. Might not agree with every opinion you have, but I can certainly empathize with the “how dare you, traitor” BS that folks like to pull when you fail to be the complete package they expect. I just don’t get it nearly as often as you seem to have.

        Maybe it helps that I’m in Ohio, not the Bay Area, and so nuance of position is actually possible here since it’s not a monoculture.

  46. To take away 2nd amendment rights based on mental illness, one has to be involuntarily committed to a mental institution, the criteria for which is being of imminent harm to oneself, to others, or being gravely disabled. People can argue all night long about whether being transgender is a mental illness and it doesn’t indicate they can be involuntarily committed to a mental institution. That isn’t a psychology thing, that’s a legal thing. Just as all people who have depression aren’t committed and all people who have schizophrenia aren’t committed. Opinions are a bit like A$$holes. Even if we disagree with someone else, the reason we can say them is a first amendment thing, not a second.

  47. If voluntary physical mutilation/alteration alone was grounds for institutionalization, we’d have to lock up a lot of women who have had too much plastic surgery and the people who get carried away with body piercings and scarification. So to be consistent, I’ll say that you want to do with your own body is your business. Fair enough.

    On the other hand, if you want the government to pay for it, whether as an inmate or a military member, it becomes the taxpayer’s business. Furthermore, when you want to use bathrooms, locker rooms and gym showers in public schools that are not designated for your biological sex, based on a self-declared ‘identification’, and share those facilities with other people of the opposite biological sex, it becomes society’s business. With the agenda being pushed by the LGBT(etc) crowd, there is no separating the first point from the latter two with respect to transgenderism. So let’s not pretend this is merely about personal freedom over one’s body. It is about whether society should be forced to abandon traditional norms of decency and modesty between the sexes to accommodate a psychologically aberrant minority, and be forced to finance it along the way. My answer is no. Hell no.

    • Brings up a good point; all trannies in either direction should lean toward the ladies room, as they will be less likely to be beaten to death before they leave.

        • Now that’s a total BS situation, and an example of the leftist destruction of objective law that I despise. The fact is Title IX not only deals solely with biological sex, shoehorning gender identity into it and literally reversing the meaning of the law is the same type of sophistry that gave us Obergefell and Roe v. Wade.

          As a trans person I’ve gone out of my way to cause as little disruption and discomfort to others as possible, and have little tolerance or respect for fellow trans people that don’t show the same courtesy.

        • Erin, I think it goes without saying that if people with your attitude were the norm rather than the outliers in the trans community, it would be much smoother sailing for all of you. I’m sure I’m not telling you anything you don’t already know.

  48. Knew this one would bring out the white trash. Boy was I not disappointed.

    While we often focus on the tyrannical leanings of the left, it’s good to remember our side has it’s share of authoritarian psychopaths.

  49. It took approximately 1 (one) comment for some internet heterowarriors to show up.

    Splendid performance, lads, just brilliant. If I was one of those shrewd guys who ride anti-2A agenda to get to Washington, DC, I’d buy you drinks, ’cause you are so helpful. My work at depicting typical gun owner as bigot, whose brain went into victorian-level conservative overdrive, and got rotten in this little fetid condition, got easier, and that office got closer.

  50. First off, props to her for speaking out and being open about who she is despite the knowledge that the comment section here was going to be brutal.

    Second, the vast majority of us here if not all of us, are completely unqualified to make mental and physical health judgements of her, yet many of you feel like you are completely in the right and apparently world class scientists. Regardless, there is no reason to denigrate her.

    Third, she is a bit of a paradox politically (unless she votes libertarian) and perhaps a little uneducated on political realities (politics aren’t strictly “Left vs Right”), but most of us are forced to support parties that don’t fully represent or best interest or views. We have to pick what is most salient to us and deal with the fact that who we vote for also supports ideas we don’t like. Hopefully we can work to create parties/policies that more fully align with our views and interests.

    Fourth and finally, some of us “the defenders of the Second Amendment aren’t hate-filled bigots, phobics, and racists. We are actually understanding, polite, respectful, law-abiding and open-minded people.” But clearly, there are plenty of us that are. You need to look no further than the comments on this very post or any other related post, ask the NRA-ILA’s Chris Cox about trangender issues, or go to a gun show and talk about these issues. Plenty of people on the “Right” side of the spectrum other than full on social libertarians are pretty vile when it comes to LGBTQ rights, and we still have our fair share of racists, misogynists, etc. However, as she points out, the basic principles of limited government, individual freedom and responsibility, local control, etc. should support all Americans regardless of race, gender, sexuality, age, etc. Mistreatment of our fellow citizens, limiting the rights of various minority groups, forcing religion upon others, inexcusable use of tax payer dollars, etc. may be part of the Republican platform and the history of American conservatives, but like slavery ran counter to the American Revolution’s and many of the Founding Fathers’ core principles, these actions run counter to the main conservative values. Imagine if we had more libertarians and less “Christian-Right” congressional representatives and senators. It would likely destroy most of the wobbly legs the Democratic party has to stand on.

  51. Holy God Almighty… there is SO MUCH FAIL on this page… How can one who is outspoken about God Given Rights pass judgement against someone who view things differently? Who the EFF cares what someone does to themselves? Who the EFF cares who someone is sleeping with, or loving (so long as it is consensual)… This page is rife with fear mongering, based only on opinion and no justifiable proof whatsoever… And for those folks who want to Bible Thump, remember this verse:

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7%3A1-3&version=KJV

    WTF is wrong with you people??!! Live and let live, isn’t that what we’ve been telling the GCF for years? It is absolutely parallel to being judged for owning guns.. using that and your own arguments against people that are different than you, how are you NOT like the GCFs??????

    I HATE hypocrytes – especially ones that are on the receiving end of being ‘bullied’ for their beliefs…. on both sides of the proverbial isle…

    Faliures, each and everyone of you… You should re-examine your rhetoric, and then try to think before you speak

  52. Good for her. I think she’s definitely right on the points about the left. As a mostly leftist who disagrees at times with my party in a few topics, there are many on the left that live with blinders on, and refuse to consider the other side’s points, or even that they are decent people, too.

    It is said that political party affiliation presumes a certain stance on every subject.

    • Currently both major parties plainly offer us shitty options, but on the whole, the “Left” side of the aisle currently has a much better stance on civil rights other than firearms. They have their own abhorrent stances on plenty of issues though. The current version of many affirmative action initiatives are blatantly racially preferential.

      The Republicans have to many thinly veiled or blatant efforts to curtail the freedoms of every day Americans (especially minorities, LGBTQ, and women) via pushes for medically unnecessary requirements for abortions claiming to protect women’s health (since they can’t go after abortion directly per the Supreme Court), birth control restrictions, law promoting religious influence on education and government, statistically unnecessary voter ID laws designed to reduce minority voter turn out, involuntary search and seizures of suspected illegal immigrants, supporting the use of torture, incarceration for various victim less crimes, the War on Drugs, pro-big business at the expense of small businesses, etc.

  53. The mental illness is the discomfort and anxiety that accompany this. Gender Dysphoria is not an mental illness. Look it up.

    Doctors in the ’60s would choose the gender of a newborn if they had under developed sex organs. They would choose it through surgery without telling the parents. So you have adults walking around who were raised female but are male or vice versa.

    We sitting at our keyboards can’t decide what someone is. We don’t like the labels and legislation promoted by fear that affects gun owners. Same thing.

  54. Gonna round up the homosexuals, gypsies & Jews along with the transsexuals you lock up in mental institutions, pwrserge, or are you just going to march them all into the ovens. We fought a world war to get rid of your kind, guess a few of you escaped. Tell me, the women in your life get stoned if they don’t wear their burkas? Or are you too busy cutting of the heads of Christians?

    • Serge would have to do something besides be crotchety on the internet for anything like that to happen, so I think we are all safe.

      • Well Frank, it’s easy to spot a Nazi when you see one. And if someone just happened to glance in the direction of say, pwrserge, for example… We’ll just let you draw your own conclusions.

  55. So here is a question to all of you defending this ridiculous piece. Do you think it is fair that boys and men who were born as male can compete in female sports because they woke up some day and decided they were now a woman? Or do you think it is fair that a girl in Texas who was taking major testosterone in order to become a “boy” won the state title>? http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/highschool/ct-transgender-wrestler-texas-20170225-story.html
    No one has answered my question on this, everyone keeps ducking the issue.
    The facts that men are better athletes by almost every measure point to the fact that there is a difference between the sexes despite what people may feel. You people who want to let this slide are simply in denial of reality.

    • That is a touchy issue that I am really not qualified to pass judgement on. However, in my opinion, hormone therapy that would be banned for other athletes should disqualify trans-athletes from many events in my book. Its only seems fair.

      This gets messy though because there are cisgender women that have significantly higher testosterone levels than other women too and intersex individuals with androgen insensitivity syndrome. From what little I’ve read, scientists and rule makers are conflicted on the issue.

    • What the f**k does that have to do with my opinion piece? I’m clearly explaining why I’m conservative despite being trangender(that the right is correct on the critical questions of our age)not delving into irrelevancies like high school sports or where people pee.

      For the record, I’m currently on my second Facebook block, both of the due to me voicing my opinion that medically transitioning trans people have no place on the military. I also think it’s probably bad optics and not completely fair for trans people to compete in sports at that level, but I don’t exactly have strong feelings either way because I literally have zero interest in sports in general.

      • I will tell you what the F@#% it has to do with your opinion piece. First, my example points to the fact that boys are boys and girls are girls and never the twain shall they meet. Boys beating the hell out of girls in any environment is first wrong and secondly an extremely good way of letting people see the ridiculous claims of anyone claiming to be the opposite sex because they feel that way. Secondly, the thread has gone on 330 posts, in case you did not read the entire thing it has gone all over the place and my question at this point is entirely relevant. Third, you write a piece on TTAG and you better put on your big boy pants because people here expect to be treated like adults, there is no snowflakes here only a bunch of snowballs, ice chunks, and various mal-formed yeti beasts that take a hell of a lot strong ideas for them to start melting. So get over it. This is a place for ideas and it is one of the last honest areas on the damn interweb. You may be conservative on any number of ideas that I would agree with including guns. That’s great but never ever expect me or more than half this forum to ever agree with your post or your personal life. I come to this site to talk about guns, if people want to bring up other societal issues than game on. I expect no quarter in the realm of ideas and I give none.

        • You call my writing “ridiculous” and criticized people responding positively solely on the basis of “because high school sports”, which had absolutely nothing to do with the topic of my rejection of Leftist fascism.

          I don’t mind if people disagree with me, but pull your head out of your ass and disagree with me on the basis of the actual topic and what I actually said, and not a bizarre non-sequitur on par with “this article on the 1911 is shit, because bicycles don’t have windshields”.

        • I’m more than willing to engage in full-contact rhetorical combat, and frankly this place is amateur hour compared to my regular internet haunts.

          It’s doesn’t bother me when people legitimately criticize me or my work, what does piss me off is when someone literally goes”because trannies are playing high school sports, this entirely unrelated piece by a tranny explaining their rejection of Leftist epistemology and embrace of free speech and gun rights is ridiculous and should be ignored”. That’s stupid.

          Oh and for someone that talks mad shit about “big boy pants”, you sure seem like a huge crybaby over getting publicly called on your bullshit willful misrepresentation.

  56. Instead of focusing on Erin’s lifestyle, can we get back to topic and comment on the meat of the story: that gun rights applies to all Americans, no matter the race, religion, and life style. On that, I am with Erin. I applaud her bravery and willingness to stand up for our rights.

  57. Ahh, a G-d denier. Science has proven the biological difference of males and females, but there is no proof of the existence or the non-existence of an intelligence that created this universe, as. shown by science.
    ontinue to debate the subject..
    Reply
    avatar J says:
    August 7, 2017 at 10:50

    Radbod, last pagan king of the frisians (dutch) is said to have told the catholic priests that tried to convert him “call down your jesus from heaven and let him engage me in single combat on the royal grounds, if he defeats me and strikes me down, the whole of my people will convert to your faith. If i strike him down, then wotan is superior and you will die and your churches burn”. Long story short, jesus stayed where he was, the priests were slaughtered and the fledgling churches raised. Catholicism was effectively eradicated from Friesland for a time.
    avatar Scott says:
    August 6, 2017 at 21:47

    Bobinmi, please check out Darwin’s Black Box by Michael Behe; it might provide you with some insight on this subject.
    Reply
    avatar bobinmi says:
    August 7, 2017 at 05:42

    please note that I am not denying the existence of greater power. I just don’t think it gives a shit whether we eat pork, get tattoos, or find the same sex appealing. Basically I don’t believe in the “God of Abraham”

    avatar MamaLiberty says:
    August 6, 2017 at 11:27

    What in the world is this obsession with bathrooms? The transgender population is much smaller than the homosexual bunch, but I’ll bet dollars to donuts you would never recognize either one in passing through a public restroom.
    Reply

    avatar Jean-Claude says:
    August 6, 2017 at 11:44

    But it doesn’t STOP with the bathroom, does it? No, dear, the battle then shifts to the locker room. Then there’s the whole “gender fluid” argument, which states that one’s gender identity is whatever one says it is, can change from day to day, and requires no effort to adopt the appearance of the gender one claims.

    In other words, someone who looks like James Yeager can claim to be a woman, demand access to the women’s locker room at the gym, and he has to be allowed access. Because there is no standard for what a transgender is, that opens the door for all sorts of abuse.

    Do you want to have a big ol’ hairy man showering next to you at your gym? Do you want a 16 year old pervert taking advantage of this law to use the girls’ locker room in a high school?

    It’s not as simple as you make it out to be.
    Reply
    avatar MamaLiberty says:
    August 6, 2017 at 12:06

    Yes, it is that simple. If I saw someone in the public bathroom that made me honestly uncomfortable, I’d just leave. Parents are responsible for their children. Everyone else is responsible for themselves… I’m armed at all times, of course, but “gender” isn’t the only possible problem. A woman in a woman’s bathroom might be an aggressor just as easily as a man – regardless of their biological identity.

    Tell you a funny story… Years ago I was waiting for a flight connection at O’Hare airport. I went into the bathroom and immediately a very large, very male dude in serious, flaming drag came out of one of the booths. He had the biggest shit eating grin on his face, and we about died laughing together. Two other ladies came in right then, turned several shades of pink, and he dashed out the door still laughing. No big deal. He was no threat to anyone.

    Had a smile on my face the rest of the trip. “His” dress was absolutely outrageous… too many colors. Tell me, why can women wear men’s clothes and nobody cares, but so many folks get hysterical if it’s the other way around. Sexists… 🙂
    avatar Matt in FL says:
    August 6, 2017 at 12:11

    I actually had a conversation about restrooms at work just yesterday. We have traditional mens and womens restrooms. We don’t have a family restroom, we don’t have a gender-fluid restroom. It came up in conversation, and my response was, “Use whatever restroom you feel appropriate for yourself, and act like a fucking adult while you’re in there. It really is that simple.”
    avatar Jean Claude says:
    August 6, 2017 at 13:23

    I notice BOTH people who responded to this conveniently ignored the changing room and locker room scenarios.

    Wonder why. Nope,they both went right to the bathroom scenario.

    When your daughters have to shower with Seth Rogan lookalikes, don’t come crying to me.
    avatar MamaLiberty says:
    August 6, 2017 at 14:02

    Didn’t ignore it at all. Each person is responsible for his/her own life and safety, and that of their children. They can personally take whatever precautions they deem necessary. If my daughter (or son) found an aggressive person in their restroom, changing room, whatever, they would know what to do about it. If children are too young to deal with it themselves, why in the world would a parent allow them to be alone? It isn’t only transgender people who might be a danger. And anyone who is counting on some ‘law’ to make them comfortable and safe is truly delusional.

    Isn’t that the same as the gun grabber’s delusional promise that everyone will be comfy and safe if only all the guns are removed from our lives?
    avatar The Gray Poseur says:
    August 6, 2017 at 13:53

    I doubt the girls will be showering with the Seth Rogan look a likes. Seth will have that locker room all to himself. Another unintended consequence of the enlightened Tesla driving progressives.
    avatar Joseph Quixote says:
    August 6, 2017 at 20:14

    Mama liberty, You seem to think that it is all ok and because you have a gun you can defend yourself and so live and let live. My question, do you think it is ok to have men with a mental illness to kick the hell out of women in high school athletics? I personally like to watch boys compete with boys and girls to compete with girls. It seems just a tad wrong to watch boys kick the hell out of girls with their superior athleticism even though the girls are more skilled. Seriously do you think this is OK>?
    avatar ThomasR says:
    August 6, 2017 at 15:04

    Lol. What is the “obsession”, Mama Liberty, with having a man use a men’s bathroom and a woman use a women’s bathroom? Because the man is a man and the woman is a woman regardless of what they might “feel” their gender is that day? That is science, that is fact. Oh, wait, if I have standards or limits on what I consider proper public behavior, especially in the bathroom, that means I must be a bigot, or a homophobe, or a xenophobe, or a transphobe, or an Islamaphobe; take your phobic pick; depending on which particular victim group the transgender person happens to place themselves that day, especially if they are of the “fluid gender” variety.

    But in the end, this is simply another front in the war based in the lottery of victim groups that need to be “protected” from “oppression” by that horrendous thing called societal standards and norms.

    But you simply show me what the bible has already shown, once the society has cut loose of those biblical standards of morals, then the ability of human being to justify any behavior, no matter how out of bounds of traditional moral behavior, is on the table.

    This is not new, Mama Liberty. This type of rejection of traditional morals and the embracing of what was once wrong and making it right has happened over and over again through out history. In my opinion, this is why dark ages happen.

    This is another reason why I am a Christian. What you show me by your very inability to see anything out of bounds with this whole issue, is proof to me of this dissolution of any roots, any foundation in a life based belief system.

    Christ and Yaweh is the Way, the Truth and the Life. And those that reject this truth, are embracing death. The Regressives and all of their agenda is one of societal suicide, chaos, mass death and ultimately tyranny. They embrace the murder of unborn children, the support of “alternative lifestyles” , (which means any combination of relationship is defended, except a marriage of a man and a woman, which is relentlessly attacked by feminists), the attacking of all standards of acceptable public behavior, and those that object are simply some type of “Phobe”, take your pick.

    Just look to western Europe, and see our ultimate fate, if left unchecked. They show the path of “tolerance” and their rejection of christian standards and behaviors. To the point where they embrace and protect the influx of a belief system like Islam, that is the very real nightmare of intolerance, hate, bigotry and murder that Christianity never was.
    Reply
    avatar MamaLiberty says:
    August 6, 2017 at 16:04

    Doesn’t seem you have actually read much of what I’ve written. Individual liberty, self responsibility and voluntary association is completely different than special interest groups or professional victims. Each individual is responsible for his/her own life and safety… and that of their legitimate dependents, of course.

    I’m a deist, and follow no organized religion, but I think your bible contains a lot of freedom advice. One example: Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling… I’ve read your book, and I can’t remember any place in it where you are commanded to round up people and force them to do anything…

    And no mention at all of bathrooms…
    avatar ThomasR says:
    August 6, 2017 at 16:59

    Oh Mama Liberty. Where have I said that anyone needs to be “rounded” up for their confusions or for the lies they have convinced themselves are the “Truth”? I did say that I am a libertarian Christian. As long as no one attempts to force me by law to associate in my home or in my church with people not practicing christian beliefs, or force me to accept as normal or healthy the opposite sex in public bathrooms, or have me to deny science and force me to accept that people are not the sex they were born with, if their “feelings” say otherwise, and as long as my civil liberties are honored, I will honor those of others. People are free to be or feel any thing they want.

    But this is all academic. As I have said, this is a minor puzzle piece of the totality of what the Regressives have created. You and the Morally Relativistic world that has been created, proves to my satisfaction that the collapse is near; as six thousand years of Judaic, Christian and western history shows. The bible also shows the people that will rebuild will be those accepting voluntarily, the Way, the Truth and the Life. Because the bible is ultimately an inspired manual of how to build a culture and society based on the laws of nature, and of G-d. Basically, the same thing.

    I pray that all those that will be caught up in the coming events, will also come voluntarily to the same truth.

    avatar LarryinTX says:
    August 6, 2017 at 14:29

    “but I don’t believe in laws forcing the rest of society to follow my christian beliefs, either, except abortion, that’s just murder.”

    You do realize you just blatantly contradicted yourself within the same sentence, right?

    On to important matters, I just made 2 comments without needing to reenter data, now this one, in the same thread, demands it. How is that even possible?

  58. It quickly became clear that Leftist talking points aimed at my demographic only tempt when stripped of context, and a more holistic view illuminated their moral hollowness and intellectual bankruptcy.

    The Left warns us of bigoted evangelicals, while excusing Islamic radicals and ignoring transphobic rhetoric from radical feminists.

    They promise bathrooms and baked cakes, and destroy property rights and objective law. They give tolerance and preferred pronouns, and crush dialogue and muzzle free expression. They tell us “our body our choice,” then seek to deny us the means to protect either the body or the choice. They demand our pistols in exchange for platitudes, then have the audacity to feel entitled to our vote.

    I won’t try to pretend the Right is perfect, because it isn’t. But in my case there’s been a surprising open-mindedness and intrinsic recognition of my individuality that I’ve never consistently seen from the Left, manifested from people and places I never expected like the gun community.

    As a regular student in firearms training classes and a member of several gun-centric discussion forums, I’m fully aware the gun community has a decided rightward tilt.

    That fact, combined with Leftist rhetoric about the endemic intolerance I could expect if I tried to live openly, left me briefly considering just walking away instead of risking the vitriol.

    But I decided to stay, partly due to pure stubbornness , but also a suspicion the apparent hostility on the Right was mostly reactionary.

    What I quickly noticed was the manner conservatives responded when approached with a modicum of courtesy and respect. Sure there were a sprinkling of obnoxious reactions, but most were more than happy to reciprocate; many in fact later admitted my calm and measured responses to the haters as being a huge factor in changing their minds.

    But even with the ones that told me they didn’t agree with my transition, they often were at least courteous about disagreeing, along with freely admitting I had the right to do it.

    In the end, what I appreciated most was the fact the positive reactions had to be real; there was nothing for them to gain by being supportive, no frowning SJW to avoid, ready to shriek at the slightest breach of the Narrative.

    They were seeing me as a complex individual with many facets, and even if there might be one or two aspects they disagreed with, they were more than willing to overlook them in favor of the majority they respected.

    I contrast with the Left, where multiple times I’ve witnessed even a minor digression from orthodoxy suffice to be cast into outer darkness. In hindsight, so much I was told ended up being posture and artifice.

    This experience is exemplified by my recent experience at a Portland free speech rally. We departed the event location in a group for protection from Antifa violence, but they still followed us hurling insults and threats.

    The scene was actually bizarre and illuminating; a racially mixed group of free speech advocates, with two transgender members and multiple blacks, hispanics, and at least one Samoan, stalked and subjected to loud accusations of being white supremacists and Nazis by a masked and menacing, almost exclusively white group uniformly dressed in black. They gave no indication they comprehended the irony.

    To sum it up, neither side is perfect for me. But there’s only one side that displays concern for the Western civilization that makes my current life and very existence possible, supports my right to access tools to protect myself, and doesn’t seem interested in using political violence to trap me on their voting plantation, humanity and individuality denied me and reduced to a posing dummy. That’s really no choice at all.

    Of course you, reader, have already taken Erin’s own words and understand these truths. That the people of the gun, the defenders of the Second Amendment aren’t hate-filled bigots, phobics, and racists. We are actually understanding, polite, respectful, law-abiding and open-minded people.

    We understand that freedom means that there will be different people exercising their constitutional rights. Furthermore we embrace that fact. It is the gun grabbers who are closed-minded and hate those who exercise true freedom. The American Dream is that of individual liberty and personal freedom.

    One of those freedoms is to be who you want to be. In Erin’s case, she’s able to be who she is: a conservative gun-owning American who happens to be a transgender.

    In the liberal gun-grabbing mindset, to correct her badthink, Erin would be forced to believe the often repeated lies that gun ownership is wrong and that being reliant on one’s self for personal defense is abnormal. But because of the the moral fabric that comprises American society, Erin is able to truly be herself.

    She can be an ambassador of the Second Amendment. In San Francisco, of all places. And here’s a little secret: Erin isn’t alone. Our country is filled with all manner of Erins.

    Remember that American freedom comes in every color, shape and stripe you can think of. Folks like Erin make up organizations like Pink Pistols, Jews for the Preservation of Firearm Ownership, the Second Amendment Foundation and so many more. They’re our fellow gun owners and friends. They’re our family members and allies.

    Freedom and American liberty are for everyone and the gun-grabbing left will stop at nothing to make us all equal in a despotic lowest common denominator of conformist misery, a collective collection of nothingness. People like Erin help ensure that will never happen.

  59. In a memo to employees, Google CEO Sundar Pichai said the employee who penned a controversial memo that claimed that women had biological issues that prevented them from being as successful as men in tech had violated its Code of Conduct, and that the post had crossed “the line by advancing harmful gender stereotypes in our workplace.”

    He added: “To suggest a group of our colleagues have traits that make them less biologically suited to that work is offensive and not OK.”

    Pichai’s wording appears to indicate that the employee is likely be fired, which some inside and outside the company have been calling for. A Google spokesperson said the company would not confirm any firing of an individual employee, but others have been let go for violating its Code of Conduct in the past.

    (Update: Sources told Recode that the employee has been fired, but Google said it would not comment on individual employees. The memo’s author also confirmed his firing from the company to Bloomberg.)

    Once it does happen — and it should not be long — the move is sure to attract a firestorm of criticism on both sides, putting the search giant in the crosshairs of a wider debate about gender issues taking place in Silicon Valley and across the country.

    The employee memo — which was up for days without action by Google — went viral within the search giant’s internal discussion boards this weekend, with some decrying it and others defending it. Sources said the company’s top execs have been struggling with how to deal with it and the fallout, trying to decide if its troubling content crossed a line.

    Apparently it did. In a memo to employees titled “Our words matter,” Google CEO Sundar Pichai said that the employee — who has been named on Twitter, although his identity could not be verified — had violated its code of conduct. (I am not publishing his name, because he — and others who disagree with him — have been threatened with violence online.)

    Had the employee not belittled women’s skills, I assume, he would not be let go, but he made claims that many consider problematic, although others maintain that his myriad of claims are worthy.

    One thing is clear, the memo has become radioactive at Google.

    Multiple sources said the memo has caused a massive debate to go on internally, which has devolved in ways not unlike those taking place across the country. “It has been really toxic,” said one person at Google. “It’s a microcosm of America.”

    Still, this is a corporation with rules and managers who rule on those rules. So, what is also true is that most free speech is allowed when it comes to the government and within society, but not necessarily within companies. In, fact, it is common for people to lose their jobs for making sexist and racist remarks.

    That said, Pichai also noted that the memo did raise some important issues, such as the need for more willingness at Google to include more points of view at the company, including more conservative ones.

    It’s really a no-win situation for him or anyone, as these issues engender really profound and often ugly disagreement to take place.

    But, as Pichai noted, words matter:

    “First, let me say that we strongly support the right of Googlers to express themselves, and much of what was in that memo is fair to debate, regardless of whether a vast majority of Googlers disagree with it. However, portions of the memo violate our Code of Conduct and cross the line by advancing harmful gender stereotypes in our workplace. Our job is to build great products for users that make a difference in their lives. To suggest a group of our colleagues have traits that make them less biologically suited to that work is offensive and not OK. It is contrary to our basic values and our Code of Conduct, which expects ‘each Googler to do their utmost to create a workplace culture that is free of harassment, intimidation, bias and unlawful discrimination.’”

    On Sunday, Google’s head of diversity, Danielle Brown, said in a memo — her first to the company — that she would not link to the employee’s memo because “it’s not a viewpoint that I or this company endorses, promotes or encourages.”

    Google does not have an easy line to walk, especially since the employee penned a piece he sent across the company that posited, among other things, that women were biologically not suited to do tech.

    Titled “Google’s Ideological Echo Chamber,” it begins promisingly enough (and is, for the most part, well-written):

    “I value diversity and inclusion, am not denying that sexism exists, and don’t endorse using stereotypes. When addressing the gap in representation in the population, we need to look at population level differences in distributions. If we can’t have an honest discussion about this, then we can never truly solve the problem.”

    But then, in what is pretty much the main premise, he went on in detail: “I’m simply stating that the distribution of preferences and abilities of men and women differ in part due to biological causes and that these differences may explain why we don’t see equal representation of women in tech and leadership.”

    What followed was a list of those differences, including a claim that women were more social and artistic and could not take the stress of high-pressure jobs. Hence, neuroticism, or higher anxiety and lower stress tolerance, which he claimed was backed up by studies.

    Perhaps most disingenuously, the author also claimed that he had no voice, even after penning a 3,000-word memo that he was able to send companywide and also was read by millions more.

    In other words, he got heard.

    “Psychological safety is built on mutual respect and acceptance, but unfortunately our culture of shaming and misrepresentation is disrespectful and unaccepting of anyone outside its echo chamber,” he wrote.

    Well, maybe so, but it also looks like it also will lead to more serious consequences for the employee.

    Ironically, Google is now hosting a conference on girls in tech

    It is also in the midst of a lawsuit with the Labor Department, which has alleged that Google has a gender gap in pay. The company has denied this, and has declined to provide salary information to the government. But Google, like many tech companies has released its diversity statistics — men make up almost 70 percent of the staff and a full 80 percent of the technical employees.

    Here is the Pichai memo in total — if you want to also read between the lines:

    From: Sundar

    Subject: Our words matter

    This has been a very difficult few days. I wanted to provide an update on the memo that was circulated over this past week.

    First, let me say that we strongly support the right of Googlers to express themselves, and much of what was in that memo is fair to debate, regardless of whether a vast majority of Googlers disagree with it. However, portions of the memo violate our Code of Conduct and cross the line by advancing harmful gender stereotypes in our workplace. Our job is to build great products for users that make a difference in their lives. To suggest a group of our colleagues have traits that make them less biologically suited to that work is offensive and not OK. It is contrary to our basic values and our Code of Conduct, which expects “each Googler to do their utmost to create a workplace culture that is free of harassment, intimidation, bias and unlawful discrimination.”

    The memo has clearly impacted our co-workers, some of whom are hurting and feel judged based on their gender. Our co-workers shouldn’t have to worry that each time they open their mouths to speak in a meeting, they have to prove that they are not like the memo states, being “agreeable” rather than “assertive,” showing a “lower stress tolerance,” or being “neurotic.”

    At the same time, there are co-workers who are questioning whether they can safely express their views in the workplace (especially those with a minority viewpoint). They too feel under threat, and that is also not OK. People must feel free to express dissent. So to be clear again, many points raised in the memo — such as the portions criticizing Google’s trainings, questioning the role of ideology in the workplace, and debating whether programs for women and underserved groups are sufficiently open to all — are important topics. The author had a right to express their views on those topics — we encourage an environment in which people can do this and it remains our policy to not take action against anyone for prompting these discussions.

    The past few days have been very difficult for many at the company, and we need to find a way to debate issues on which we might disagree — while doing so in line with our Code of Conduct. I’d encourage each of you to make an effort over the coming days to reach out to those who might have different perspectives from your own. I will be doing the same.

    I have been on work related travel in Africa and Europe the past couple of weeks and had just started my family vacation here this week. I have decided to return tomorrow as clearly there’s a lot more to discuss as a group — including how we create a more inclusive environment for all.

    So please join me, along with members of the leadership team at a town hall on Thursday. Check your calendar soon for details.

  60. Gonna round up the homosexuals, gypsies & Jews along with the transsexuals you lock up in mental institutions, pwrserge, or are you just going to march them all into the ovens. We fought a world war to get rid of your kind, guess a few of you escaped. Tell me, the women in your life get stoned if they don’t wear their burkas? Or are you too busy cutting of the heads of Christians?
    Reply

    avatar Det. Nick Valentine says:
    August 7, 2017 at 13:02

    Serge would have to do something besides be crotchety on the internet for anything like that to happen, so I think we are all safe.
    Reply
    avatar Frank says:
    August 7, 2017 at 17:46

    Ah yes, the Reductio ad Hitlerum fallacy. Well done.
    Reply
    avatar Mike Betts says:
    August 7, 2017 at 18:20

    Is it just me or should this discussion be couched in terms of some of it being a “phallusy”?
    Reply

    avatar Joseph Quixote says:
    August 7, 2017 at 15:53

    So here is a question to all of you defending this ridiculous piece. Do you think it is fair that boys and men who were born as male can compete in female sports because they woke up some day and decided they were now a woman? Or do you think it is fair that a girl in Texas who was taking major testosterone in order to become a “boy” won the state title>? http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/highschool/ct-transgender-wrestler-texas-20170225-story.html
    No one has answered my question on this, everyone keeps ducking the issue.
    The facts that men are better athletes by almost every measure point to the fact that there is a difference between the sexes despite what people may feel. You people who want to let this slide are simply in denial of reality.
    Reply

    avatar Det. Nick Valentine says:
    August 7, 2017 at 16:40

    That is a touchy issue that I am really not qualified to pass judgement on. However, in my opinion, hormone therapy that would be banned for other athletes should disqualify trans-athletes from many events in my book. Its only seems fair.

    This gets messy though because there are cisgender women that have significantly higher testosterone levels than other women too and intersex individuals with androgen insensitivity syndrome. From what little I’ve read, scientists and rule makers are conflicted on the issue.
    Reply
    avatar Erin Smith says:
    August 7, 2017 at 18:18

    What the f**k does that have to do with my opinion piece? I’m clearly explaining why I’m conservative despite being trangender(that the right is correct on the critical questions of our age)not delving into irrelevancies like high school sports or where people pee.

    For the record, I’m currently on my second Facebook block, both of the due to me voicing my opinion that medically transitioning trans people have no place on the military. I also think it’s probably bad optics and not completely fair for trans people to compete in sports at that level, but I don’t exactly have strong feelings either way because I literally have zero interest in sports in general.
    Reply
    avatar Joseph Quixote says:
    August 7, 2017 at 20:39

    I will tell you what the F@#% it has to do with your opinion piece. First, my example points to the fact that boys are boys and girls are girls and never the twain shall they meet. Boys beating the hell out of girls in any environment is first wrong and secondly an extremely good way of letting people see the ridiculous claims of anyone claiming to be the opposite sex because they feel that way. Secondly, the thread has gone on 330 posts, in case you did not read the entire thing it has gone all over the place and my question at this point is entirely relevant. Third, you write a piece on TTAG and you better put on your big boy pants because people here expect to be treated like adults, there is no snowflakes here only a bunch of snowballs, ice chunks, and various mal-formed yeti beasts that take a hell of a lot strong ideas for them to start melting. So get over it. This is a place for ideas and it is one of the last honest areas on the damn interweb. You may be conservative on any number of ideas that I would agree with including guns. That’s great but never ever expect me or more than half this forum to ever agree with your post or your personal life. I come to this site to talk about guns, if people want to bring up other societal issues than game on. I expect no quarter in the realm of ideas and I give none.
    Reply

    avatar GimpsUnlimited says:
    August 7, 2017 at 20:39

    Instead of focusing on Erin’s lifestyle, can we get back to topic and comment on the meat of the story: that gun rights applies to all Americans, no matter the race, religion, and life style. On that, I am with Erin. I applaud her bravery and willingness to stand up for our rights.
    Reply

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