Quote of the Day: Virginia Background Check Law Shows Gun Controllers’ Stats are Bogus

“While the gun-control lobby likes to say that 90 percent of gun owners want universal background checks, where even private gun sales require a background check, that is pure fantasy. The numbers for voluntary background checks in Virginia show that the real percentage is miniscule. While options are generally good things, this law is a waste of resources. It should be repealed, with the tax dollars and manpower put to better use by the Virginia State Police.” – VCDL president Philip Van Cleave in New law that encourages voluntary background checks at Va. gun shows yielding few tangible results [via richmond.com]

comments

  1. avatar Joe R. says:

    “with the tax dollars and manpower put to better use”

    Like penalizing and abusing the aholes that enacted it, or your just going to see more of it. They just shrug it off with their “we’re trying” and “best intentions” if they go “back to the drawing board” then, it should be in shackles.

    1. avatar Gman says:

      The law was a compromise so McAweful could save face after his AG nixed virtually all of our reciprocity agreements and the backlash became untenable. The Virginia POTG community knew the law would yield zero results but it made the liberals froth to finally put an end to that evil gun show loophole. Another I told ya so moment.

      1. avatar GS650G says:

        Liberal Governors have their AG toss out reciprocity agreements, rewrite or enhance statutes, tack on new requirements, and in general cause problems with carry laws. Too many legislatures leave openings like ” at the discretion of the AG” in the laws without realizing who might be in charge in a few years,

        Delaware added new language to the reciprocity bill that now allows out of state CCW permit holders to carry in DE but not allow DE residents with a permit from out of state to do so as well. Wasn’t in the original bill.
        The PA AG pulled a similar move requiring out of state holders to have a permit in their home state and to get a PA non-resident permit. This pulled the rug from a lot of people with UT or FL permits stuck in states like NJ where permits are hard to get. Fortunately she was convicted but not before she damaged the law.

        Carry legislation needs to be airtight and treat all permits equally. If you submit to a background check and get licensed anywhere that should be good enough. But it never is.

        1. avatar Chris Mallory says:

          In 43 states the AG is elected and doesn’t answer to the governor in any manner.

  2. avatar Gman says:

    From the perspective of a Virginian who buys and sells privately via vaguntrader.com, what I would like to see is an online method to do a state background check. That said virtually all of us on that site require good guy papers for any sale and I won’t sell to anyone without positive historical feedback. We, as a community police ourselves.

    1. avatar No one of consequence says:

      Out of curiosity, if everyone had the same personal sell criteria as you … how do you expect someone to get a good historical rating if no one would sell to him without a rating? A person has to start somewhere.

      1. My first good comment was from a sale, and every other trade has involved ID and voter Reg or CCW permit.

      2. avatar Andrew Lewis says:

        Just like they do in eBay. You start with a neutral rating and you build reputation by being a good customer with inexpensive unimportant purchases. Start with accessories to build a rating.

  3. avatar Aven says:

    As a resident of Virginia for nearly 70 years, I could see this train wreck coming from a mile away. It was a worthless “compromise” to get rid of the stupid concealed carry restrictions the Governor and AG cooked up that would have harmed both out of state concealed carriers and Virginia concealed carriers when they traveled. It was and is a big waste of taxpayer money. I hope we do better when we get a new governor but I worry that the very liberal voters in Northern Virginia and Tidewater will vote in another bad governor.

    I won’t sell to anyone I don’t personally know and am confident will be responsible.

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      I’m sorta like that. I will only sell a gun to someone I am confident is covered by the second amendment.

      1. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

        Yup. Same here.
        Private sales continue here even with the stupid law.

    2. avatar I1ULUZ says:

      Wow, where did you get that wide of paintbrush at to paint all of Tidewater in one stroke? A few there will always vote one way, and last time around the GOP put a wackjob. Chuchie was offended by Vitus’ breast hanging out. Which sort of worked out for the best, carry permits now are accepted in more places than under Good ol’ let’s sell the tunnels and charge a toll Bob. Va Beach, Suffolk, Chesapeake, IoW, York County are far from the left side. NorVA, well it’s a write off. Having spent time in Hampton Roads/Tidewater while being a member of Uncle Sam’s yacht club there are strictly left zones and strictly right zones. Look at which area has high murder rates, you are correct those will always vote for the left.

      1. avatar Aven says:

        I base it on the voting patterns of the last several elections. A voting map shows mostly red with blue in Northern Virginia, Tidewater, Richmond and blue spots where there are liberal universities.

    3. avatar healthycuriosity says:

      I’m afraid it will only get worse. People keep moving to Virginia and other southern states to escape the crushing taxes of their liberal utopias. Unfortunately, they bring their voting tendencies with them. Then, 10-15 years later, wonder why their taxes are so high.

  4. avatar Ollie says:

    I think a person would have to be crazy to sell a gun without having a background check conducted on the buyer or at least knowing for certain that the individual is law abiding and sane.
    The risk of lawsuits, criminal charges and bad publicity is not worth the few extra dollars you might get over selling or trading to a reputable dealer. If you are unemployed, bored and judgement-proof, it might not matter.

    1. avatar Timao Theos says:

      Yet people sell drugs everyday without all the worries you seem to think are important…lol

    2. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Since no one has any record of what guns I currently own, that manner of liability is not a concern. Sure, someone can discover that a particular gun was once purchased by me, but no one knows whether I sold it since then, maybe it has been sold a bunch more times, guess you need to prosecute the guy who committed a freaking crime with it, and leave the seller alone. Those of you who allowed a registration system to be put in place in your state have only yourselves to blame, you know you were warned. And it will get worse.

  5. avatar Maine Constitutional Carry says:

    “While the gun-control lobby likes to say that 90 percent of gun owners want universal background checks…”

    In November 2016, Maine voters proved that “90 percent” claim to be false by defeating Bloomberg’s UBC Referendum.

    Bloomberg’s beating would have been much worse if he had not out spent us 6 to 1, and recruited every Maine media outlet to incessantly promote it.

    Thank God we stopped this in Maine and proved to the rest of the country that it can be done.

    Bloomberg’s UBC “brand” is now hopelessly tainted as just another attempt at more gun control.

  6. avatar ButtHurtz says:

    FLAME DELETED

    Why are you anymore concerned about selling a gun and any other material item? It is just a tool.

  7. avatar kap says:

    just look at the land of the whispering bush where Amoral living is the law of the land, Guns and Christian Churches are banned, but Mosques, Rainbow people, Communists, illegal immigrants, Berkleyites are considered by the Potlickers to be progressive and OK, rest of the Power hungry, greedy, National potlickers are no better, it’s like a Mental disease to be Anti- Americans screw the people but leave my pocket book alone!
    We the people is just a feeble saying as only 3% of the people stand for our Values

  8. avatar Wanderingninja says:

    In theory, background checks are wonderful. I am even sure that they have stopped a few bad apples. A friend of mine worked at an FFL for a while and he was saying that a wanted suspect in a murder tried to buy a gun. The background check people told my friend to say he was delayed and to engage him in small talk until the sheriff arrived. That’s all well and good. Unfortunately several mass shooters have gotten through the system. Some folks, some even maybe with a checkered past are barred from buying by default. They go through the proper channels to buy a gun. They apply for they’re conceal carry permit. Abide by the law and do everything above the table. When enough halfway decent people are barred from having a gun, it becomes hard to discern if our government is serving us or if we have become the frog in boiling water.

    1. avatar Mark N. says:

      Except for San Bernardino (and he would have passed had he not wanted to avoid police detection) and Virginia Tech, mass shooters have purchased their arms legally and with a background check.

  9. avatar Ralph says:

    NICS as currently configured should be readily accessible by private sellers. It isn’t, because the purpose of the Brady Law isn’t merely the background check. It’s all about the Form 4473.

    Licensed dealers can be forced to create and maintain the record on the pain of losing their license. There’s no leverage that currently can be applied to non-dealers. None. That’s why private sellers are not allowed to use NICS, and the G is pushing for so-called “universal” UBCs.

    4473s for everyone!

    1. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

      If they want universal background checks, they should at least offer something in return. Like getting rid of the defacto registration that is the 4473 system. Mandate that after a certain period of time all such records must be destroyed.

      I don’t see that sort of thing happening in the foreseeable future. Politicians seem to think the term compromise means only getting some of what they want instead of all of it.

      1. avatar Geoff PR says:

        “Mandate that after a certain period of time all such records must be destroyed.”

        Pftttttpt.

        When a government creates a record, it *never* gets destroyed.

        In a data repository buried deep under a misty mountain or in a dusty box stacked haphazardly against a wall in a basement or a ‘forgotten’ room somewhere, you can be rest assured it will pop back up, and at a time most unfortunate for the citizen the ‘destruction’ law was supposed to protect…

        1. avatar Geoff PR says:

          Remember when we were told a Social Security number would *never* be used for identification purposes?

        2. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

          A 4473 is not a government record. It’s a record mandated by the government. If a gun shop has a bunch of 4473s, and they suffer the same penalties for having “expired” 4473s as they do for not following any other law or reg, then they’ll destroy them. The records will never have been a government record. You’d also have to change the law where 4473s from closed shops go the ATF.

          If the government has a record of something that was never supposed to be in their hands, then records laws don’t matter much.

          But the point that the gun grabbers refuse to compromise still stands. They have never offered a compromised, just asked for a cookie.

        3. avatar Aaron says:

          well, except for things such as hillary’s emails. or louis lerner’s emails. somehow THOSE records disappeared…

      2. avatar Matt in SC says:

        “Mandate that after a certain period of time all such records must be destroyed.”

        That’s a great idea. I’m on board for 30 seconds after the transaction has taken place. Burn barrel, shredder, paper hating pit bull, they all work for me. The FFL can keep the remains and transfer them to the ATF if they close up shop. In that case the dog would be the best option.

        1. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

          That doesn’t sound like compromise either. Which probably makes it more likely to happen.

  10. avatar NorincoJay says:

    Options are a good idea. As long as those options aren’t mandatory.

    1. avatar Geoff PR says:

      “As long as those options aren’t mandatory.”

      Options have a very nasty habit of magically transforming into ‘requirements’ by statists.

      No camel nose under the tent…

  11. avatar Roymond says:

    From the article:

    “I expect that the very small number of voluntary background checks initiated by private sellers were the result of some concern or skepticism about a potential buyer,” said criminologist William V. Pelfrey Jr., an associate professor at Virginia Commonwealth University’s L. Douglas Wilder School of Government and Public Affairs.

    “While it is great that there were some, the very small numbers indicate that this program is not making major gains in protecting the public,”
    – – –

    Which being interpreted means, “I don’t trust private citizens who sell guns” — because apparently we should have concerns or skepticism about everyone we meet.

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  13. avatar Roymond says:

    From the article:

    “I expect that the very small number of voluntary background checks initiated by private sellers were the result of some concern or skepticism about a potential buyer,” said criminologist William V. Pelfrey Jr., an associate professor at Virginia Commonwealth University’s L. Douglas Wilder School of Government and Public Affairs.

    “While it is great that there were some, the very small numbers indicate that this program is not making major gains in protecting the public,”
    – – – – –

    Which being interpreted means, “I don’t trust private citizens”. Because apparently we’re supposed to have concerns or skepticism about everyone.

  14. avatar Roymond says:

    I have to ask: if it’s voluntary, and barely used, how is it costing any tax money? Did they hire extra people who just sit around hoping to see citizens call voluntarily?

  15. avatar Roymond says:

    I have to ask: if it’s voluntary, and barely used, how can it cost any taxpayer money?

    1. avatar Aven says:

      The state supplies a state employee and the equipment at every gun show and the cost is paid by the taxpayers. In Virginia, the cost of a background check when you buy a gun is $2.

  16. avatar Roymond says:

    Sorry about the multiple posts — I wrote and clicked to post, but nothing showed up; I reloaded the page, and still nothing; I closed the page and opened it again, and still nothing, so I rewrote my posts…. and then suddenly they’re all there, original and replacement.

    The system is also forgetting who I am every time I go to read a new article.

  17. avatar Avid Reader says:

    Colorado requires it now, too. Based on the stats, either there aren’t that many private transactions, or it’s generally ignored.

    1. avatar Geoff PR says:

      “Based on the stats, either there aren’t that many private transactions, or it’s generally ignored.”

      You can count on it being used against you if the state wants to make an example out of you…

    2. avatar Ing says:

      As far as I know, same here in WA. There were people who got set up as FFLs mostly to handle the influx of private sales and transfers that would have to go through NICS checks, and they’re all out of business now.

      Nobody in their right mind is going to go through all that rigmarole if they can avoid it…and most of the time they can. No blood in the streets, either. Just normal people going about their own business, same as always (but now with another regressive law hanging over their heads).

  18. avatar George says:

    The State Trooper that’s twiddling his thumbs for 2 days at a gun show would be much more useful out on the streets.
    In VA we are still underpaying troopers, resulting in many leaving for better opportunities. I believe we are at over 100 below needed staffing levels now. Bad use of resources.

  19. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

    “Mandatory background checks for sales made by private dealers are needed and desired by law enforcement agencies,” Pelfrey {an associate professor at Virginia Commonwealth University’s L. Douglas Wilder School of Government and Public Affairs} added. “If you ask any police chief, they will advocate for greater scrutiny of persons who purchase firearms.”

    So what? Suppose I do go ask any, or even ALL, police chiefs and they all respond as the good professor predicts? So?

    Background checks are still useless. They’re still an infringement on my rights. Before you even get to any of that, though, the views of police chiefs means nothing. I don’t afford them any extra credibility on policy proposals simply because they’re police chiefs. They are not experts on criminology. That is a vast, interdisciplinary field at the intersection of law, economics, sociology, political science, history, public administration, systems theory, urban planning, and maybe twenty others.

    Police chiefs just administer departments. If they had all the answers and abilities, then crime would have been eradicated by now. They come to the table with plenty of biases and prejudices and public policy preferences based on nothing more than uniformed personal opinion. “Go ask any police chief……” and similar appeals to allegedly authoritative “others” always reminds me of the Kindergarten playground.

    Any time you had some kind of debate with another snot-nosed brat at the monkey bars and you reached an impasse of opposing opinions, his or her last resort go-to move was to turn to the nearest available other snot-nosed brat buddy of his and pose the matter to him or her. When that equally idiotic snot-nosed brat agreed with the first one, the first one would turn to you in triumphant glee and declare “See?! Even [so and so] agrees with me. I’m right; you’re wrong!” Who the hell is that other snot-nosed brat and what makes him an expert? Nobody and nothing, that’s what.

    Same thing with snot-nosed chiefs of police. I don’t care if their personal opinion can beat up my personal opinion at the bike racks after school. Bring it on. Afterward, however, it still won’t matter because your personal opinion doesn’t matter one wit. What matters is the reality that universal or even voluntary background checks don’t work, in addition to being infringements on my right to keep and bear arms.

    1. avatar MyName says:

      What he said.

  20. avatar cisco kid says:

    This is about the most ignorant article I have ever read. Universal Background Checks do work if it is a Federal Law. States with lax gun laws funnel tens of thousands of second hand guns into States with tough gun laws.

    Every civilized industrial nation in the world has vetting of all gun sales and gun owners and that is a major reason their gun homicides and gun robberies are much lower than ours.

    The NRA became the criminals best friend when they gutted the original Brady bill by not allowing it to cover all gun sales and it is a bold face lie that by extending it to all gun sales would lead to confiscation through registration. In the first place the Brady bill never confiscated any new gun purchases so what is the big deal on extending it to all second hand gun purchases which would keep tens of thousands of guns out of the hands of criminals and crazies. The mass killings in San Bernardino is a perfect example. The two nut cases that got a hold of second hand AR 15’s stated that they did not buy them new because they feared they would never pass the background check.

    When Jethro Bodine in his paranoia and total ignorance claims that registration would guarantee the Feds get his guns this is pure nonsense and total ignorance. Even if Jethro’s guns were unregistered the Government would just pass a blanket law declaring Jethro turn in certain banned guns and if he did not he then if caught would go to prison and lose all this life long accumulated wealth and assets. The Feds would get everything and after a few sensational arrests with jack booted storm troopers and attack helicopters burning Jethro and his house to ashes the rest of the citizens would fall into line very quickly, history has proven it as they burned to death 80 Branch Dravidians faster than roasting a pack of hot dogs on Sunday afternoon or has Jethro already forgotten about this human tragedy.

    Ahhh Haa says Jethero they would never know I ever owned a gun. Wrong Jethro as in the 21st there is no privacy. If you ever bought a box of ammo on a credit card the Feds know you own a gun. If you ever subscribed to a gun magazine or donated to a pro-gun organization or even bought hunting related equipment the Feds are on to you. If you ever went to a gun show the Feds have photo graphed your license plate number and have actually been caught red handed doing this on more than one occasion and do not think because in the past they got their hands slapped that they still are not doing it after all the hub bub blew over. Jethro is photographed hundreds of times a day by security cameras and Jethro has a black box in his new car that tracks his every move.

    As the mass killings by nut cases goes on and even gets worse Jethro is the anti-gunners best friend as through public outcry the Feds will confiscate and or out law more and more classes of weapons. Jethro is always his own worst enemy when it comes to helping the anti-gunners.

    Yes Jethro is his own worst enemy because he is so tight fisted and cheap he would rather have his entire gun collection stolen then buy a safe and a security alarm system and then the stolen guns go right to the criminals and nut cases who commit mass murder which brings more calls for bans and confiscations. Ditto for irresponsible and cheap ass gun stores that often do not even have bars on the widows or even security alarm systems because no law requires it let alone safe storage laws. Who cares if their guns get stolen they say, we got insurance and we could not care less how many innocent people get gunned down with our stolen guns because as greed mongers we put money always over human life and suffering. Its called being a good conservative and good businessman. Oh for the good old days when we could dump our trash and dangerous chemicals in the nearest river. They will say it was a Commie conspiracy such laws were passed to inconvenience them and take away their freedom to pollute the environment and make a quick buck. Remember they will say Global Warming is a Commie conspiracy, never mind that as long ago as 1940 at Wright Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton Ohio weather men were horrified when old fashioned cameras on high flying weather balloons showed pollution hanging above the clouds were it could not wash down.

    Yes Jethro is always his own worst enemy because the very things he fears the most he ends up causing to happen. What a Moron.

    1. avatar Aven says:

      After what you wrote, you should be careful as to who you call a moron.

  21. avatar Matt in SC says:

    “Mandate that after a certain period of time all such records must be destroyed.”

    That’s a great idea. I’m on board for 30 seconds after the transaction has taken place. Burn barrel, shredder, paper hating pit bull, they all work for me. The FFL can keep the remains and transfer them to the ATF if they close up shop. In that case the dog would be the best option.

    1. avatar cisco kid says:

      TO mc

      Your not living in the real world. That’s meaningless “feel good ” legislation. As I have said many times before if the Government wants to ban a certain category of guns it only needs to make an announcement once the ban is passed and if you do not turn them in registered or not you risk going to jail, and the government confiscating everything you own or ever will own. A few “David Koresh” moments on TV showing Jethro and his farm house being incinerated with a well placed shot from a helicopter gun ship will make “believers” out of the proletariat troglodytes. Guns will be thrown out windows into the street and smiling jack booted storm troopers will scoop up the piles of guns with a front end loader and they will be melted down within hours. History has proven it works and works like a charm.

      Meanwhile the real and present danger to everyone is tens of thousands of second hand guns and stolen guns going right directly into the hands of criminals courtesy of the NRA that prevented the original Brady Bill from vetting all gun sales not just new ones. No, the Government never used the Brady bill to confiscate anything and it does not need the Brady Bill to do it as they can very quickly confiscate them without it if they ever choose to do it. The safety of having an unregistered weapon is a Jethro Bodine fantasy. It never has worked out that way in real life.

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