So Londoners hurled chairs, glasses and beer bottles at terrorists on a stabbing spree. Well, that’s what happens to a disarmed populace. But instead of calling for gun rights restoration, or even considering it, Mr. O’Neil and his ilk take pride in the unarmed folks deploying makeshift weapons against armed terrorists. At the same time . . .

UK Prime Minister Teresa May is promising to “conduct a review of the nation’s counterterrorism laws.” In other words, the most surveilled country on planet Earth, a country where the right to silence has long been revoked, is about to go even further down the road towards a police state.

I’d like to think it couldn’t happen here. But of course it already has. The federal leviathan capitalized on the Twin Towers attack to create the Department of Homeland Security, the FBI’s super-secret terrorist watch lists, NSA spying and so on.

But we have the Second Amendment. And tens of millions of Americans who understand that the greatest threat to their individual liberty is their government, not the agents of an Islamic death cult.

Anyway, is the UK a lost cause for liberty? As someone who lived in The Land of Hope and Glory for 12 years, I’m going to say yes. When it comes to fighting for individual freedom the Brits have lost their bottle. They’ve placed their faith, their very lives, in the hands of Her Majesty’s government. True?

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223 Responses to CapArms Question of the Day: Are the Brits A Lost Cause?

  1. To answer your question, YES. 2 World Wars culled the herd of anyone with a backbone and left the spineless wimps to multiply and run the country.

      • Ditto. But unfortunately while our own nation is under siege from a totalitarian dark state with incessant motivation and unlimited cash resources, about half our cognitively deceased slave population agrees with the enslavement!

        Sadly, Freedom lovers are now outnumbered in America. But hopefully, and more decicively, Never ‘outgunned’.

        • Thankfully, the firearm owners are the smart half of the equation. The Darwin Award bunch will meet their fate in an appropriate manner.

    • You know, that is a point, centuries of wars of aggression, best and brightest going overseas, homeland left to inbred nobility, peasants and serving wenches. Cap that off with two wars that took the mickey out of them, the society is in its death throws.

      Makes me worry about the US too. We’re not sending that much of ourselves as permanently, but is there any doubt our adventures will transform us? Make us better right jingoes? We’ll see.

        • Eh, I’m not looking at this through testicle-colored glasses. I mean they had good run, but while it was going in some economic moral hazards went unchecked and it left the homeland derped. Is Anglo DNA spread fairly thickly across six continents? It totally is. Good for them I guess.

          The economic meaning of our (US) adventures is probably bigger than conquering India, or Egypt for Rome. But where is it going? We’re getting collective guilt and listlessness like they did and we have a monster military jndustrial complex, more centealized than theirs was.

    • Add to that a totally misguided immigration policy allowing anyone and everyone from every country the Empire touched to come to Britain. Its not surprise that a bunch of the terrorists are first gen immigrants.

      • Spot on. Mark Steyn has been writing about European demographics for now pushing twenty years. Essentially they are not having children and they are replacing their own people/culture/nation/religion with a religion and culture that hates everything modern Europe stands for. By the time they wake up half of them are going to be Muslim and you will see civil war uglier than WW2. One thing, there are still a lot of Europeans that absolutely hate everything that is going on, they just need a leader who will not back down. A Churchill type would be exactly what is needed, just not sure if there are to many of his character left. Anyhow if you want to read some excellent books on the subject look for Steyn’s America alone and after America. They are depressing to read and yet spot on about Europe’s idiocy.

        • “By the time they wake up half of them are going to be Muslim and you will see civil war uglier than WW2.”

          Contemplate this for a bit –

          When it happens, we won’t be stopping them, and it will make it more palatable when it eventually happens *here*.

          After all, like Progressives love to tell us, the U.S. Constitution *isn’t* a suicide pact…

        • Just being honest, very few men in history have been of Churchill caliber.

          Europe may have already used up their allowance for this century

      • They are having problems with the second generation, that is, natural born citizens who are the offspring of first generation immigrants. Their parents tend to be grateful for the opportunity to live in a better place than the hell holes from which they emigrated.

      • The problem isn’t so much that they allow those immigrants, it’s the timing: if they’d allowed them while they still had their empire, if in fact they’d encouraged movement of population from one subject country to another, they just might have ended up with an empire that stayed together full of subjects who knew how to live together in peace. Instead, the home country treated the rest of the empire like peasants on country estates, and now that the empire is gone the ruling class, lacking foreign subjects to treat like peasants, is treating the home populace the way they used to treat their foreign subjects. And once a ruling class comes to regard the ‘lessers’ as, well, lessers, they never let go.

        • Radical Mohamedans are not killing people because they are offended by how they were treated in history, or because they have no jobs. The problem is not social engineering. Holy war needs no justification beyond serving a religion. You cannot force a people to assimilate when their ticket to paradise and everlasting life is based on the extermination of “the other”.

        • During British Empire days, they regularly shifted bulk sections of useful populations, usually Muslim Indians, to wilder parts such as the Tsavo railway line, Uganda, or to the Fiji cane fields. Fast forward to independence for these emerging nations, and the local populace were enraged at these successful interlopers and ejected these foreigners back to the hub of the former Empire. Thus “Great” Britain became a haven to displaced Muslims from all over the world. By and large, they are equally successful in their new home. But there is always a cadre of callow youth who are easily influenced to evil by determined villains. And the authorities have allowed immigration from all the hellholes of Africa as well. This pool of potential bombers and murderers have been exploited by ISIL and others and their efforts are visible in the headlines. Sadly the British authorities have dithered around for decades over this and many other problems, and refuse to accept that extremists demand extreme measures. The British propensity for “niceness” works against them here. Only rounding up and isolating these young idiots will do the job. Somewhere in freezing cold Scottish Highland tent camps would be my pick. See how bolshy they get when half frozen. Theresa May cutting back Police and security numbers when in charge is also a problem.

    • Exactly spot on! Two wars and this is what’s left of British resolve. The real men seem to be few and far between. Rumors of SAS involvement give some hope.

      • The French Foreign Legion was predominantly shanghai’d conscripts. When those people return to their countries and not France, you have domestication by lack of breeding of war fighters, you also lose any distibution of oral history, stories of whatever successes that can be salvaged from a conflict. Ginned up, you have at least the hampered seeds of honor, the nobility of new courage.

    • Not just the UK but all of Europe. All the courageous, self reliant and ambitious people long ago emigrated to North America seeking freedom and opportunity. What’s left in the gene pool wouldn’t fill a tea cup.

    • “Are the Brits a lost cause?” is a pretty open-ended question…!

      In terms of de-regulating the ownership and use of handguns, or of any weapons for the purpose of self defence, yes it probably is a lost cause. The percentage of gun owners in the UK is tiny, and therefore it is hard to (a) normalise the carrying and use of guns and (b) advocate government to loosen the laws.

      In terms of backbone it’s less cut and dried – speaking as a proud Brit. Yes, our society is vastly more liberal and multicultural than it used to be, and that brings with it many perils as well as many benefits.

      But I believe that the spirit of resistance remains, even if dormant for the moment; and that if pressed, plenty of Brits (from all different cultural backgrounds) would stand up and make a difference. Plenty of British men and women who have served alongside our American allies in recent years are strong evidence that this strength of spirit, and willingness to fight, are not dead.

  2. Yes. Most of Europe, thankfully not in my lifetime is going to be Islamic barring a major war the west actually wins. You have huge non integrated populations in most European countries, except for Spain, Poland and a few others in Eastern Europe. Sweden will be the first to go under, followed by Germany, France and the UK. If those people don’t wake up they will be under Islamic rule in another couple of generations.

    • JSIII, You must be very old or don’t plan to live long. Between further invasion and the government subsidizing their breeding like rabbits – my math shows less than 20 years remain for the tattered remnants of Europe.

      Watch closely folks, this is the stuff you read about in history class, an invasion of primitives and the collapse of a civilization.

      • Twenty years max. The average muslim family has 8 children, the average native family, fewer than 2.

    • Those populations, especially in France, were purposely shunted off to ghettoes and little effort was made to integrate them into French society. Not saying they would have integrated on their own, but the French government made sure they had few options other than the ghettoes and menial labor jobs.

      • The average “rapefugee” is illiterate, with the intellect of a Western 5th grader. Who wants nothing to do with “blending in” to their host nation.

        That’s what invaders do.

      • Hate to burst your bubble, but having a menial labor job or living in a ghetto is no excuse for terrorism, period, end of story.

    • I don’t know, Germany might beat Sweden in becoming the first to having a haji majority and sharia as the LotL. I lived in Mannheim & K-Town (while not downrange) from ’03-’07; in the space of those years, the increasing numbers of haji & spread of their “culture” was startling.

      But where the globalists and touchy-feely left touted the Germans’ stoic tolerance of haji, I saw a different Germanic trait at play instead; the see-nothing blinders. I think it stems from their intensely private nature, and an unwillingness to stick their noses into other people’s business…. even if the neighbors are burning bodies, jihadis pumping themselves up to do jihadi shit, eating other neighbors, etc….. Hence, they don’t even really notice haji & his haji signs, haji stink, hijabs, durka-durka-speak, public sexual assaults, rapes, etc….

      It’s sad; surviving Germans built it back up from rubble of WW2 and the next generation took it further in terms of tech/industry/science…. but they absolutely refused to instill any sense of national pride in their kids (open borders was the other knife). It really seems that they don’t care about Germany being overrun by haji, because there hasn’t been one since the nazis took control

  3. Are the Brits A Lost Cause?
    Short Answer: Yes!
    Long Answer: For Christ’s Sake they’re a fucking lost cause and it’s their own damned fault!

  4. Is that a trick question? 🙂 Or maybe just rhetorical? Or . . . oh, never mind. The answer is a resounding yep.

  5. If a disarmed populace fought back this hard against than NO they arent a lost cause. Imagine how effective their defense could have been if one in ten Brits on the scene had been armed

    My counter to your question, is the British government a lost cause to their people?

    To that I would answer YES

      • “Give them guns….” indeed. They are subjects, not free men. “Allow” would be a more appropriate word for those type of men.

        • Perhaps we need a new Lend-Lease for Home Defense. Save the US firearm manufacturers from the Trump Slump by shipping 100k Hi-Points, SCCYs, and Kel-Tecs “over there.”

        • A lend lease program that actually gave the weapons directly to the British people (not her Majesty’s government) would be a great idea. I’d probably be willing to pitch in a Mosin, a Rossi revolver, a Marlin 60, a pump shotgun, possibly even an SKS, due to my love of neighbor.

          On the other hand, I wouldn’t give any firearm to the stupid and tyrannical British government. They would just dump them into the sea, like they did the last time.

          Maybe they will try using Pikes again, like they did in the battle of Britain 1940.

          Thank God for the men of 1776.

      • Exactly, they fought tooth and nail with anything that wasn’t nailed down they should be commended for their actions and given better tools for the next inevitable event

    • On second pass, if they fought back this fervently it could signal the best opportunity to repeal their gun restrictions.

      I don’t have high hope but if ever there was a time for people to stand up and demand their rights be restored this could easily be the first of many incidents. Just need to convince the docile sheeple that a man defending his horse is worth ten hired hands

      • Nah, they just like to get stinkin’ drunk and have a good rumble. If they’d really cared, the defense would have been more ordered (a phalanx of chair wielding rugby players comes to mind) and effective.

  6. Probably so, but I take heart in the fact that many of them at least fought back rather than lying down and letting the terrorists murder with impunity. It’s good to see that there is still a bit of fire left in the average Briton, and maybe that can be directed toward a fight for their own independence from a domineering government. Denied their right to own weapons for defense–they can’t even have knives now, from what I’ve read–they’re easy pickings for psychos and murderers, but even the most patient Englishman will reach his limit.

    Hell, we had our own little revolution when we couldn’t put up with the Crown’s BS any more. Maybe one day they will, too.

      • Sadly, no. But I do share a last name with a gent named Patrick who expressed a preference in lifestyles that included only liberty or death.

    • I am with The Brig.

      This is the first instance I have found where the actual PEOPLE of a nation in Europe fought back, hand-to-hand no less!

      While a firearm is probably the best defensive weapon available at this time, two dozen MEN (and I mean real men, not beta males nor manginas) fighting back with chairs and bottles is a force that I would not want to take on even if I had a firearm.

      • You must be a pretty poor shot. You don’t bring a chair or bottle to a knife fight or a gunfight if you want to live.

    • I’m more afraid of right-wing doomsday nuts than some religious radicals.

      There have been more incidents caused by these right-wing fanatics than those people.

      The EU seems to be doing fine without armed NRA lunatics roaming the streets.

      • I’m sure you’ll be happy to provide sources for your claim that ‘right wing fanatics’ have caused more death and destruction than islamic terrorists…but you’ll probably whiff and start talking about Nazi’s (socialists) and WW2.

        • ……….To whom actual resistance of said nazis were ARMED.

          After the past 3 months in England and the crystal clear vision of what these leftist ASSHOLES want to see happen here, I’m done with patience with these media matters trolls.

          FLAME DELETED

      • Islam is a far right political philosophy demanding total submission to authority. Discuss.

        • Its a theocracy and attempting to pigeon hole it politically in terms of the modern American left/right paradigm doesn’t work.

        • Islam is what it is. Glib and misleading labels such as “right”, “conservative”, “liberal”, and “progressive” provide no light to the conversation.

        • The whole left / right paradigm is completely flawed. Typically socialism is the left most point and fascism is the right most point on such a line. But when you realize that fascism is nothing more than a nationally flavored version of socialism, you come to understand that with a totalitarian government on the far left and a totalitarian government on the far right, there is nothing in between them.

          If you insist on using a left / right concept to describe political differences then we should put all forms of total government on the left and a complete absence of government (anarchy) on the right.

          If we do that then islam falls far left of center, as it is a totalitarian religion/government. That is why globalists and socialists get along so well with islam.

      • Doing fine you say. Hrmmm…

        Liechtenstein has a higher murder rate per 100,000 people (27.89) than Afghanistan (26.34).

        Finland (22) is worse than Iraq (20.66). Cyprus (17.42), the Czech Republic (17.26) Belgium (16.52), Greece (15.56) are all worse than Morocco (14.13) while The Netherlands (10.83), France (10.54), Australia (10.38) are worse than Oman (6.94) and Bahrain (5.38).

        For overall crime (reported).

        Crimes reported per 1000 residents:
        European Continent Average: 43.52
        EU Average 49.27
        NATO Average (excluding US) 50.53
        Euro Zone Average: 46.8

        For Individual countries out of the top 13 world wide for crimes reported nine are European or Scandinavian.
        On that list Sweden is number two. UK is 4, Finland, Belgium Denmark and the Netherlands in order are 6,7,8,9. Germany is 11th, Norway 12th, Austria 13th.

        The US is 22nd with 41.29 crimes reported per 1000 residents. For reference: The lowest ranked Euro country, Austria, is at 68.35 with their leader being Sweden at 138.35 and the rest all falling in between.

        Maybe we’ll do better with rape.

        Nope. Belgium, Norway, Finland, Ireland, Denmark, Germany, The Czech Republic, Hungary, Romania and Portugal all are worse than both Cameroon and Sierra Leon and all are markedly worse than Egypt was back in the heady days of 2008 (last available date).

        Crap, better move on to regular old assault:

        Damn, Europe has 10 of the top 20 rates for assault. Scotland (1), N. Ireland (2), Sweden (6), Belgium (11), Germany (12), Finland (14) Austria (16), Portugal (19), The Netherlands (22), Norway (23) ALL lose to Nicaragua (25) and lose badly to Columbia (53). In fact the EU and NATO averages (excluding the US) are all higher than Mexico (which btw ranks 26th in murder per capita world wide compared to the US at 99).

        Robbery: Oh, well the US breaks the top 20 on that at 18 but still lags behind Spain (12), Portugal (13) and Belgium
        (11)(damn, Belgium, get it together over there!).

        Burglary: Sweden, Spain Austria, and Denmark all make appearances in the top 10 (with Australia and NZ too!). The US doesn’t make the top 10.

        So, what exactly were you saying about how great Europe is?

        /end fisking

        • That’ll keep him away for a minute, or at least he won’t attempt to argue, because he knows he has no chance with his very cold copypasta.

          I did it before, but I didn’t put the work in that you did – nice job.

        • I am not sure where you are getting those stats on murder rates but they are way, way off. I mean not even close.

        • Yo, 9 !!
          Nice. GoggleFu Master at work…
          Through some citations in after each classification and it’s mic drop time for you brother.
          Thnx for putting in the work.

          I regularly have to make presentations to assembled groups of people regarding marketing. One of my standard constructs is to compare the MSM and how it propagates misdirection of gun deaths vs deaths by medical errors.
          I tell them, “Check for yourself. Google top ten causes of death in the US/ world. Do top twenty. Do top thirty. When does death by gun show up.”
          I also point out that death by medical errors is bunked in with “death by accidents”.
          I often see people whip out their smart phone and tablets to correct me.
          LoL! It NEVER happens. They slowly put their electronics down as their eyes glaze over.

        • Zen:

          Apologies on the failure to source. Mostly it was from the nationmaster site (see reply to Jim). I did that from my phone. A guy owed me a favor and was tinting my windows as payment so I was sitting there with a note pad, pen and phone which was a really long and kinda frustrating process and in the end I said “Fuck it, it’s not like he’s gonna read it and even if he does an intelligent and thoughtful response isn’t gonna happen so forget the sources”.

          That’s a fail on my part. Sorry bout that.

      • Interesting. When did the right wing nuts run a truck into a crowd? When did the right wing nuts stab a bunch of people after running a car into a crowd?

      • @ The_Gutless — You should be more afraid of these left-wing doomsday nuts because they ARE the religious radicals.

        There have actually been far and away many, many more incidents caused by these left-wing fanatics than anyone you could ever wag your little sausage finger at. All while knowing full-well that you’re all kinds of WRONG for doing so in the first place because the guilt belongs to you and yours, and always will.

        The E.U. is actually rotting from the inside out, and that may very well be because they don’t have an equivalent of the NRA there.

    • In a recent conversation with a Norwegian friend, the conversation turned to gun ownership in America. He was astonished when I told him how many of my friends routinely carried guns and how many households in America tended to be rather well-armed. When our conversation turned to the Charlie Hebdo killings in Paris, I commented that terrorists attempting that in this country might very well find themselves confronting armed citizens ready and willing to defend themselves. He responded that the idea of armed citizens defending themselves would never happen in Europe because the idea itself is unthinkable for most Europeans. “You have to understand”, he said, “we’ve seen our continent wrecked by two world wars”. I didn’t tell him that it was our country of armed citizens who saved continental Europeans from disaster on both those occasions. Without major changes—which don’t appear to be happening—the UK and the most of Europe is a lost cause.

      • Ask your friend what they plan to do when Russian soldiers take over their oil fields. They’ll probably call the German/Swedish/Italian soldiers to bring their wines & smorgasbord vittles to buck’em up…

        UK soldiers will only be responsive to Iran by that point…

      • Yea, the last German who gave me that line annoyed me so much that I responded:

        “We didn’t do enough. There should have been at least a dozen more Dresdens. Then we wouldn’t have to be listening to your crap today.”

        • Can I tell an old story? About German arrogance?

          Word has it that during the Berlin airlift (1948), a British cargo plane (probably a converted Lancaster bomber) was having trouble staying within the allowed air corridor from West Germany into Berlin. The German air traffic controller proceeded to verbally bash the British pilot about airmanship. The controller demanded, “Why do you not stay on course? Have you never been to Berlin before?”. To which the Brit pilot replied, “Yes, actually. Twice. 1944. It was dark. Didn’t stay long.”

      • Did you tell your friend that those wars were caused by governments, not privately armed citizens?

  7. Yep lost cause. Quickly sliding into a virtual “V for Vendetta” …or is that a Moose-lim Clockwork Orange?!?

  8. It is never a lost cause to defend an inalienable right. To abandon the pursuit and excerise of such rights would make them alienable — and it further legitimizes the efforts of those who wish to erode those rights for us here at home.

    As long as there is even 1 Brit who wants to restore his or her right to personal defense, we shall not forsake that individual.

  9. England always was lost, its a sad fate for the Welsh Scots and Northern Irish for being called British it is.

  10. They are subjects. Their entire notion of freedom was undermined from the begining. “Freedom” in that country is an illusion. If they even speak out about “fighting back and killing them all” they will be investigated by Scotland Yard. Heaven forbid they should demand that the government *allow* them to have access to firearms for self defence.

    • Your version of freedom is terrorizing anyone who doesn’t agree with you.

      Your version of freedom is forcing people like me to accept your debunked beliefs that more guns will make us safe.

      This incident will not change the minds of the UK or the rest of the EU.

      Were not really “free” if we have a death rate higher than any 3rd war-torn nation and that every man, woman and child is armed to the teeth.

      Must of us refuse to be armed because we know it doesn’t do jack-squat to stop crime or terrorism.

      Your ironically arming these same nutbars who want to hurt us.

      I prefer freedom than armed slavery.

      • You’re either a corporate account, or you’re drunk. When you’ve posted before, you’ve been able to get the “your/you’re” right. This post does not do anything for your credibility either way.

      • That’s some might sweet newspeak you got their “Resistance.” You know that 1984 was a warning, not an instruction manual right? The disarmed have no recourse than to defer to the state for their defense, they are the slaves. And, disarmament can only be effective if EVERYONE abides, which of course they will not…which means the state must enforce disarmament…with force of arms.

      • @The_Resistance: You are deeply mistaken when you say “The UK and the EU is FAR SAFER and has MORE FREEDOMS than this country will ever have”. Here are some supporting examples:

        Example 1: In 2014, “a candidate in the European elections was arrested on suspicion of racial harassment after quoting a passage about Islam, written by Winston Churchill, during a campaign speech”. Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10792895/Election-candidate-arrested-over-Churchill-speech.html

        Example 2: “U.K. man jailed over Facebook status raises questions over free speech. Woods was charged by British police under section 127 of the U.K. Communications Act 2003, which found that his message was “grossly offensive” or “of an indecent, obscene or menacing character.” He was arrested “for his own safety,” reports The Guardian, following the comments posted on Facebook about 5-year-old April Jones, who was abducted close to her home in Machynlleth, Wales early this month”. A government arresting someone for their own safety because they spoke their mind has the hallmarks of totalitarianism.

        Source: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/uk-man-jailed-over-facebook-status-raises-questions-over-free-speech/

        Example 3: “In Britain, Police Arrest Twitter And Facebook Users If They Make Anti-Muslim Statements”. Source: http://www.businessinsider.com/in-britain-police-arrest-twitter-and-facebook-users-if-they-make-anti-muslim-statements-2013-5

        You say “Must of us refuse to be armed because we know it doesn’t do jack-squat to stop crime or terrorism”. Being armed doesn’t do jack-squat to stop crime? Tell that to all those who cowered on the rooftops with their phones while terrorists attacked Charlie Hebdo. Tell that to all the victims of the French Bataclan massacre. Tell that to the victims of the latest terrorist attack on the London bridge and the stabbings that followed thereafter.

        The UK and EU have no freedoms, they are mere subjects.

        Your despicable leftist lies will not fly here.

      • “Your version of freedom is terrorizing anyone who doesn’t agree with you.”
        My version of freedom is for you to go about your daily life and I will go about mine. The fact that me owning a gun terrorizes you is your problem not mine.
        “Your version of freedom is forcing people like me to accept your debunked beliefs that more guns will make us safe.”
        My version of freedom is accepting the fact a gun makes me feel safer. Your acceptance is not a factor.
        “This incident will not change the minds of the UK or the rest of the EU.”
        I will give you that one.
        “Were not really “free” if we have a death rate higher than any 3rd war-torn nation and that every man, woman and child is armed to the teeth.”
        Please cite your statistics and references.
        “Must of us refuse to be armed because we know it doesn’t do jack-squat to stop crime or terrorism.”
        Most of us who actually know what is going on around us know that armed citizens have stopped criminal acts against themselves and others.
        “Your (You’re) ironically arming these same nutbars who want to hurt us.”
        Again cite your references.
        “I prefer freedom than armed slavery.”
        You prefer freedom for you, but not me. You have the freedom to not be armed or even own a firearm, but upset because you can’t deny my freedoms.

        • “debunked beliefs that more guns will make us safe” Correction, that should be “us less safe “.
          Otherwise I really like your reply. Thank you.

      • “…doesn’t do jack-squat to stop crime or terrorism.”

        You must have an interesting definition of the word “stop”.

        The photos in UK papers and online of some ventilated hajis dead on the sidewalks from… Wait for it… gunfire(!!!!) would seem to contradict your claim here. I mean, they did cease all terrorist activity pretty quickly, did they not?

      • A coward, a liar, or a hypocrite.

        Thats the 3 choices I see when I read the posts of “”The_Resistance””

        • I hate to correct a brother/sister in public but…
          You typed “or” when it should have been “and”.
          And, please forgive me, they are not “choices”, they are well earned and deserved labels.

        • BTW- The structure of your post kinda reminded me of “Karnak, the Magnificent!”

          Thnx for that.

      • Woo Hoo!!! I got trolled by the resistance!! Do I get a pin or belt buckle or something?

  11. ‘So Londoners hurled chairs, glas ses and beer bottles at terrorists on a stabbing spree.’

    Isn’t that illegal in the UK?

      • And it’s not ‘reasonable’ to even grab a kitchen knife should your home be broken into at night. This has been adjudicated time and again. Home invasions are routine in the UK and time and again the homeowner is charged if they get lucky and defend themselves. Nothing is legal for self-defense save for a rape alarm. Get caught pepper-spraying a rapist and the victim will be the one in the dock.

        Are you really this completely uniformed as to the reality of life, or do you really think people outside your childish echo chamber really believe this nonsense?

      • So if someone is running around stabbing people would it be ‘reasonable force’ in the UK (for a civilian) to shoot them dead?

        • No. Unless you are the police, it would constitute using “excessive force.” Usually anyway. I did read one case where a farmer was charged with using excessive force when he used his shotgun on an intruder who had attacked him in his home at night. Fortunately, he selected a trial by jury, which refused to convict, as a judge surely would have done so.

      • Like YOU don’t have either a brain or an argument, England does not respect the right of human being to self defense.

      • @The Gutless — You’re wrong. The U.K. does not even codify, much less widely enforce, self-defense rights.

    • Well, it creates a presumption that they used excessive force, so they may have to defend themselves in court. Can’t have vigilantism now can we? Just because there’s terror somewhere doesn’t give everyone cart blanche. Two wrongs don’t make a right. *wagging finger in air*

  12. Rule Britania! (Sarc)

    Look, this shouldn’t come as a surprise, welcoming back monarchy after the Interregnum was the beginning of the end. You assholes were free and you crawled back in your cage.

    You can still boot your royalty. It might not save your socety from fundamental change, it doesn’t have to, all things come to an end. But in the eyes of history and a just god, if any, it will redeem the memory if your society.

    • One incident in the UK does not compare to what happens here everyday.

      Worship the Gun, die by the gun.

      The gun is you master and you are it’s slave.

      The UK and the EU is FAR SAFER and has MORE FREEDOMS than this country will ever have.

      British are free not to get shot or killed by some NRA lunatic with a gun.

      I perfer freedom than armed slavery.

      • Hysterical platitudes and double speak. I can fall asleep in a room full of US shooters, have done it while waiting for a lane.

        • The delusions of a college-aged child who has never obviously been to the places he believes to be so safe – or if he has, never ventured far from the hotel.

          Perhaps we should do a kickstarter to send him to the island of knife crime, err, Londinistan. He’d last one night, two at the most.

      • FLAME DELETED thinks he’s “the resistance”.

        REAL resistance to REAL fascism (and communism, totalitarianism etc,etc) was ARMED.

        “But I’m da resistance so I troll places where people dare to think different then me on the internet derp!”

        You need a history lesson and FLAME DELETED

      • Yeah one incident, I’m sure Ariane Grande is doing a free benefit concert in Manchester for no reason then

        Say how many van plowings/mass stabbings happened in the US this and last month? How many bombings? I seem to remember Europe having a handful, plus France under martial law and had their “freedoms” forcibly revoke.

        But im sure all that above happens hundreds of times a day in the US cuz gunz!

      • ‘British are free not to get shot or killed by some NRA lunatic with a gun.’

        Yes, if only we could get rid of that NRA stronghold of Chicago the crime rate in this country would plummet.

        FLAME DELETED

      • @The_Gutless — Repeated incidents in the U.K. are beyond the pale compared to what happens here every day.

        Worship the state, die by the Saracens.

        The state is your master and you are the slaves of its favored “underclasses.”

        The U.K. and the E.U. are both FAR MORE DANGEROUS and have FAR FEWER FREEDOMS than this country has ever had.

        Americans are free not to get shot or killed by some DemoKKKratikkk lunatic like you with a gun.

        You prefer unarmed slavery over freedom.

  13. Yes, and for larger reasons they just the Muslims in their midst.

    The UK’s “BRexit” vote has probably finished the Union that has existed since 1707. The Scots want to throw in with the EU, the working class English want out of the EU. The Labor Party is basically finished, hoisted upon their own petard. Without the Scottish vote, Labour won’t control the government anytime soon. The non-Labour parties look at the Scots and see a bunch of welfare parasites, and probably would be comfortable seeing the Scots split off and join with the EU, if they wish.

    Much as the DNC here in the US morphed into a party that caters to leftist protestors on college campuses, so did the Labour Party in the UK morph into the party of Brussels and the EU – a bunch of snobby, over-educated, mercantilist self-dealers and rent-seekers – and ignored their working class, trade union base. The self-styled intellectuals have taken over both Labour and the DNC, but these supposedly brilliant thinkers didn’t check their assumptions – ie, “does our free trade, open borders, etc agenda actually benefit the people who voted us into power?”

    The answer, is of course, ‘no’ – and the elections in the UK and US proved that.

    With these self-declared elites out of power, now assumptions may be challenged, and in the UK, there are two big assumptions on the table:

    1. Does England/the UK want to be part of the Euro/EU? The working class of England looks at the EU pact much the same way working class people in the US look at “free trade” – it worked out really well for the multi-national corporations, and not too well for the average working stiff. People vote their wallets more regularly than anything else.

    2. Do the working class voters of England (and maybe Wales) want to keep pouring money into the welfare colony of drunks and layabouts that is Scotland? I think more and more, the answer to this is ‘no’.

    Break those two assumptions, and the UK folds. If Scotland goes its own way, the US sub base at Faslane would be closed and the US pushed out. Eight major British Army bases are already scheduled to close in Scotland. Scotland will cease playing any role in world military affairs pretty quickly if they vote to break away.

    All of this is at issue before we get to the details of the Saracens and their homicidal epistemology.

    • Why would the Scots kick us out if they break off? I’m assuming we pay rent for that sub base. If they’re really that lazy I can’t see why they’d pass up free money.

      • Dunno much about Scotland, but welfare morons think money falls from the sky, for free, do not connect it to the hated presence of foreign infidels, or whatever. The people handing out the free money are also telling them to hate the West, they will take away the free money, they are spending *your* free money on sub bases, whatever. That is why.

  14. I wouldn’t say that they’re a lost cause. But they’re culture in terms of government really broke back in the 80s into the 90s, when they fully began to embrace the worse of leftist ideas on governance.

  15. My heart goes out to the poor people of the UK who have to suffer for this tragedy.

    A tragedy that is RARE versus there various gun incidents that happen here EVERYDAY.

    The whole “libruls wan to ban everything or control us” is a trope. It’s pablum, hogwash, pure manure that has no fact in reality.

    “Good guys with guns” would not have been able ever to stop an attack and statistically never will because the same “good guy with a gun” belief was DEBUNKED many times.

    There have been more incidents in this country caused by nutbars with ties to right-wing extremists and right-wing doomsday survivalist militia nuts than some religious radical.

    Funny how you have a better chance to defend yourself or even run away from a knife wielder though. Good luck with someone attacking you with a gun.

    The gun related mortality rate in the USA is massively higher than that in other advanced economies – 0.23 deaths per 1000 in UK to 10.54 in the USA. Even in other Western European nations were gun laws are more relaxed than the UK but tighter than the US, you get rates that are more like 2-3 deaths per 1000. You have to look to nations with serious economic issues and histories of political instability before you start getting comparable or higher rates than the US.

    And how would general gun ownership have stopped that?? This argument that if everyone has guns the good guys can shoot the bad guys is total bollocks. There is no evidence for that. There is however evidence that since banning handguns there have been no mass shootings in the Uk.

    There have been 25 mass shootings in America since the 29th of April. There’s been 0 in the UK alone Keep your guns ya lunatics.

    This will not change the minds of UK citizens about guns. There’s zero demand from the British public for less gun control, shooting guns is just not a part of mainstream British culture.

    Amazingly you people don’t seem to have picked the most reliable source on gun crime, lets try the federal government instead…. 2012: Justifiable homicides involving a firearm (i.e. self defence) 259 Criminal homicides involving a firearm 8,342 (+500 odd fatal accidental shootings) Crimes prevented by the presence of a firearm ~68,000 (5 year average figure) Crimes where the perpetrator used a firearm ~ 428,000 Source: Bureau of Justice Statistics So you’re 34 times more likely to be fatally shot than to kill someone in self defence with a firearm and 6 times more likely to be the victim of a gun crime than you are to prevent one (actually any crime but lets be really generous) due to you or anyone else having a firearm. And yes you’re quite right guns (being inanimate objects) don’t cause crime (except for the 232,000 gun thefts in the same year obviously). Their presence does however make any crime far more likely to result in serious injuries or fatalities. As for where the twice as many figure comes from I wasn’t able to track it down, however the most likely reason for its justification (going on similar arguments) is simply looking at where concealed carry has been legalized, taking any decrease in violent crime (which is dropping sharply everywhere anyhow) and ascribing all of that decrease to firearm presence. Oh and then cherry picking the hell out of the data anyhow. We can get a two for one figure out of this data however, you’re twice as likely to shoot yourself or have someone else shoot you accidentally than you are to shoot someone while preventing a crime – I for one find that a less than reassuring statistic.

      • Robert and his gun-nut doomsday extremist death-worshipers like you should be more worried about the numerous gun violence incidents that happen everyday in the US than what some radical nut-bars in a real civilized country.

        This will not and never change the minds of the British as they made it clear they do not want to be armed.

        I prefer freedom than armed slavery.

        Robert should be ashamed of dancing on the graves of people who are suffering a tragedy that is RARE in the UK and the rest of the world versus the incidents that happen in the us EVERYDAY.

        • FLAME DELETED

          “Londoners hurled chairs, glasses and beer bottles at terrorists on a stabbing spree.”

          But its a good thing they didn’t have guns, right? FLAME DELETED

        • Armed slavery?

          REALLY?

          So all the slaves in world history were immediately armed, because thats how slavery works?

          FLAME DELETED

        • @The_Gutless — You and your gun control-nut doomsday death-worshippers should be more worried about the numerous religious violence incidents happening practically everyday in the E.U., than what some civil rights advocates say on some blog in a real civilized coutry like, say, the U.S.

          This will not and never change the minds of the Britons only because they are as brainwashed and deluded as you.

          You prefer unarmed slavery to the Saracens than actual freedom.

          You should be ashamed for being GUILTY of literally anything and everything bad you could ever accuse anyone here of thinking, saying, doing, or being. Especially over an incident that is INCREASINGLY COMMON in the U.K. and EXCEEDINGLY RARE in the U.S.

        • @The_resistance… Here you go.

          “If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
          ― Samuel Adams

    • “My heart goes out to the poor people of the UK who have to suffer for this tragedy.” Is it just the “poor” people of the UK who are suffering? IF you asked nicely, I am sure we could take up a collection here at TTAG and buy you a one way ticket to Blighty.

      • “back in blighty there was you,
        there were milkmen every morning,
        but these strangely shiny trees
        never used to be that way.”

        “the adventures of baron von munchhausen” clearly explains what will happen.

        • Nice TG quote.
          But trust me on this one… he doesn’t get it.
          Never will.
          He/she/It would probably go all PETAtard over the rats in the head cage scene in “Brazil”.

    • Mixed facts, out of context data, mis-characterized deaths, logical fallacies by the dozens. I’d bury him again, but it’s really boring and too easy.

    • Sigh. The_Resistance to freedom, personal responsibility and self determination by using lies, distortions and manipulations. Two simple examples.

      The first is the murder rate. It’s the lowest it’s been in over forty years. For 2015 it was 4.9%. 10.54% was from the eighties.

      The second is that the effective use of firearms for self-defense is in fact proven by a CDC study funded by Obama. Self-defense can be an important crime deterrent,”says a new report by the Centers for Disease Control (CDC). The $10 million study was commissioned by President Barack Obama as part of 23 executive orders he signed in January.
      ere are some key findings from the CDC report, “Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence,” released in 2013.

      “Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was ‘used’ by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies,” the CDC study, entitled “Priorities For Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence,” states.

      Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year…in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008.”

      Read more: http://www.gunsandammo.com/politics/cdc-gun-research-backfires-on-obama/#ixzz4j3lINirC

      Enough said. Read and weep, The_Resistance.

    • Okay, I’ll go ahead and become another fool to bite.

      UNODC data from the wiki, intentional homicide rates: Czech Republic 0.7, United Kingdom 0.9

      Czech Republic has shall issue concealed carry permits, may-issue full-auto weapons, concealed carry permits for semi-auto rifles, concealed carry in schools, no real limitations regarding knives, pepper spray or paralyzers. You can open-carry a sword across a town in broad daylight and nobody cares. Some estimates also say we’ve got more than a million undocumented firearms here, in a country of ten million. In short, we got better access to weapons than some parts of the USA.

      How come there’s so little blood running down the streets here? Could it be that availability of guns is not the only factor that influences homicide rates?

    • “The gun related mortality rate in the USA is massively higher than that in other advanced economies – 0.23 deaths per 1000 in UK to 10.54 in the USA.”

      Do you just make up your own statistics or are you just a damn liar? The gun mortality rate in the USA is 10.6 per 100,000. That’s one hundred thousand not 1,000 idiot. And that figure includes suicides which comprise two thirds of the deaths. I suppose you are going to say without guns those people would not kill themselves. Before you do take a look at the suicide rate in Japan. 10.54 per 1,000! What an moron.

    • So you keep telling us every time something happens in Europe which seems to be every other week of late.

    • Nobody can be as mentally impaired as the resistance is pretending to be and still operate a computer.

      Only reason a person with an iq above room temperature would present himself the way the resistance does is for profit. He’s getting paid to be this impaired.

      bloomberg or soros? Or both?

      • It’s not unheard of for sites to troll themselves to push people’s buttons, get more clicks. Wouldn’t be hard for someone familiar with gun politics to bark up some generic anti-gun rhetoric.

        Right now, if I had to bet $20 even money either way, I’d bet he’s a sincere, financially unconcerned hoplophobe. But I wouldn’t ve stunned to find I’m wrong. I wish Betsy Riot would join the convo more often. I miss Betsy.

    • Say, ol’ “Resistance” (to what, the Constitution?), didn’t you used to be known as “thescotsman” on another website before your trolling got you banned?

      Any post which said “On the whole, British society sucks” would send you into a rage. It was fun.

  16. A couple things.

    First off, as others have noted this may signal a rift between the populace and the government that could grow. It’s pretty obvious from the reactions of European governments to terrorism that the elites view it as an annoyance rather than a serious problem.

    Secondly, I would point out that an armed society may not have helped. Some states in the Union flat out ban the possession of a gun in a bar. If such an attack was to occur in a state with this type of restriction I think it’s probably unlikely anyone would shoot the mad stabbers.

      • Because people don’t want to risk a felony if they can just run away.

        As for the mad stabber, well, he’s free to stab all night long, ain’t no sign about knives OR about stabbing. That’s kind of like an unwritten rule or, if you will, one of those social mores.

        • Hate to burst your bubble, but one does not ‘risk a felony’ if one carries a concealed weapon inside of a bar (or any other private property) that bans firearms. If you are caught inside with same, you are asked to leave the property by the owner/manager. If you don’t the police are summoned and then they will tell you to leave. If you still refuse you are then arrested or cited for trespassing, which is a misdemeanor, not a felony.

      • Of course there are no guns in those bars, but I’ll bet you would be shocked at how fast I could be out the door, into my trunk, unlocking the safe, retrieving and loading my firearm and back into the bar ventilating the jihadist. I’m talking a matter of 1-2 seconds. Definitely before he could reach my wife or family.

        • No offense meant here, but unless you were sitting right next to the door (which might mean you’d be the first one shot or stabbed by the terrorist) you couldn’t even get TO the door in 2 seconds, let alone get to your vehicle, unlock it and then a gun safe, then get back inside, etc. I think you may have gotten a skoshi carried away there.

    • You’ve never been in a bar have you? Around here you can count on a number of people being armed. How many is hard to quantify for obvious reasons, but from personal experience in Texas and Georgia its more than one.

      • I’ve been in lots of bars and even worked in one.

        If you go back and re-read my post I said that the law varies from state to state. It also varies from locality to locality.

        I’ve been in bars where I would place a hefty wager that no one had a gun because it wasn’t the right kind of crowd and it was a felony to have a gun in the establishment.

  17. If a member of Parliament attempts to ban chairs or glass bottles since they have now been shown to be capable of being used as weapons, then yes.

    If the response to the next terrorist attack that is all but inevitably going to happen soon is all the same platitudes about how it happens so rarely, and religion has nothing to do with it, then yes.

    But these people did not run and hide, they did not cower and accept their fate, they fought back. And while we will hear from the media how their success in resisting and defending using improvised weapons is proof that guns in civilian hands aren’t “needed,” it’s doubtful that those who actually did the fighting are going to be giving a lot of interviews where they say, “We did what we could with what we had, and probably saved several lives. But I’m glad I didn’t have a knife or a gun, which could have been deployed more effectively than a broken bottle, and possibly saved more.”

    • They should switch to very light gauge wire, plastic and particle foam chairs, like Ikea type, and plastic bottles. The bottles and chairs were on the side of Social Order this time, but next we may not be so lucky!

  18. No need for guns. These terrorists used knives and beer bottles were effective defense.
    They just need to step up their investigations and arrests of possible terrorists

    • Ok.

      Then lets put you and me in a room, I’ll get to use a 12″ butcher knife, YOU can have a beer bottle.

      Lets see how THAT plays out wiseguy.

      • shove the beer bottle up the knife wielders hoohah, kick him in the jimmies shattering the bottle inside his spaghetti locker, utilize knife to surgically retrieve the offending shards.

        that’s what early cuyler would do.

  19. Yes. I’m afraid they will end up an occupied , radical state that will require outside military intervention to correct.

    After that maybe they can set up a democratic republic that acknowledges true human rights

  20. When the Police tweet out, RUN, HIDE, TELL this should tell a rational individual all they need to know about a nation and whether it’s a lost cause or not.

    • I believe it was Winston Churchill who came up with the ‘run, hide, tell’ advice during WW II……

      • I would like to see your source for that. I can’t believe the man who said “We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender…” also said to run, hide and cower. Churchill was half American after all.

        Anyway it is good that there were some people that didn’t listen to the idiotic, cowardly advice and rather fought back.

        • Churchill was speaking to an unarmed populace facing an invasion by the previously totally successful NAZI Wermacht. Not much else they COULD do.

    • Forget your post here. That name is just brutal. resistance might need some ointment for that burn.

  21. Even tazers would have been a step up. When the bad guys just have knives, a tazer would be a huge help.

    Props for bravery to the Bobby who tried to stop the Jihadi with nothing but a baton and got stabbed in the face for this trouble, but FFS, it’s just policy malpractice to but the poor guy in that position.

    • I do get your basic point, ‘but’, you may want, or need, to rethink the part where you say

      “When the bad guys just have knives, a tazer would be a huge help.”

      … factor in reaction time, awareness and/or recognition of the threat, the 21′ rule –all while using a taser against one or more knife welding assailants –you had ‘better not miss’–; and then there’s, what about the subsequent assailants? Reload, not likely.

      • When does Murphy predict the battery in your Tazer will crap out? Perhaps when you are being attacked by a suspect with a knife?

  22. I am not a history major and will not factor in any unknown ‘to me’ British history. that said …

    Currently P.O.T.U.S. has offered assistance to the British. Fast-forward to a time when the British may actually accept that offer and depending on what U.S.A. administration is seated, at that time, there is little doubt in my mind that the U.S.A. will probably –Save the British bacon–; assuming the British do not wake-up and continue their current course.

    Please correct my thinking; if incorrect. No matter what, I have no plans to voluntarily depart from the U.S.A.

  23. At this point I can already imagine that there is a very significant Black Market for concealable arms in the UK among the “law abiding” citizens. The law be damned otherwise.

  24. You’d think that if it were a paid troll, they’d know not to come here as we’re educated and informed. What route should we take, philosophical, ethical, or utilitarian to debunk it. Whenever the UK is brought up for their “gold standard gun control” laws, I prefer to use utilitarianism. If trolls will look up on their own, they’ll find that the UK has always had the same rates of murder, even before “gun control” was enacted. 90 years ago one could buy machine guns in London without permission from anyone, and there was about as much “gun violence” per capita as there is today, although there is a little more today.

    QED.

  25. What was the story about the Home Guard back in WW2? ‘Could we please borrow a Bren Gun?’

    I think the British people ahould do a quick refresher course on what bullets do to bad people.

  26. Yes. As long as Brits are content with throwing bottles and chairs at armed jihadists, then yes, Britain is lost.

    And no. As long as jihadists are willing to massacre Brits, then Britain isn’t lost to them.

    Soon, the most popular name for newborn males in Britain will be Mohammad. And them Britain will be well and truly goat-fvked.

    • “Soon, the most popular name for newborn males in Britain.”

      Saturday, on Fox, Steyn declared that “Mohamed” became the most popular male name in England and Wales in 2016.

  27. Yes. Any possible decisive actions to contain the violent mohammadmen will instantly be likened to the Nazis’ “final solution” and rather than be called ugly names most will roll over and (continue to) expose their soft underbellies to their committed enemies.

  28. Robert,

    The FISA court was created in 1978 under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. 9/11 had little, if any, impact on the court.

  29. Well, it is a significant improvement over the men walking right up to the French nightclub attackers and offering their lives as free gifts rather than even attempting to fight back.

    My favorite part of this mess so far is the great achievement news outlets seem to think this 8 minute response time is. I want one of them to volunteer to be punched in the face for 8 minutes. Let’s see if think any amount of time is acceptable to wait for good guys with guns to arrive when they’re the ones under attack.

  30. Sic Semper Wet Ca-Ca.

    F the globalists
    F the communists
    F the baby coomunists (liberals / progressives)

    F all those selling that sh_t.

  31. “…little effort was made to integrate them into French society.”

    Underlying this statement is a certainty that people from hostile cultures have any desire to assimilate. The problem with the culture clash is we (the West) presume it is entirely a social engineering proposition. It is not. It is holy war, and there is no compromise, only annihilation.

  32. “They’ve placed their faith, their very lives, in the hands of Her Majesty’s government.”

    Was it every truly otherwise?

    • Yes, they killed their king in the 17th century. After the monarchy returned, it seems over the centuries, higher spirited Brotons found their ways elsewhere.

      • “After the monarchy returned…”

        Which makes England a bastion of personal freedom, un-beholding to a monarch?
        A brief hiatus in the string of kings and queens does not make for an independent people. Subjects are subject to. The end.

        • Reduce it to the absurd if you like, I won’t try to communicate with you any more.

        • “Reduce it to the absurd if you like…”

          What was that meme about a duck?

          Subjects are subject to. The end.

          All seriousness aside, the people who fought back in the pub deserve respect.

  33. They can’t jump out of the way of the paraphernalia of my Saturday night. It is a lot more effective than a chair of glass too.

    Don’t ever let go of the 1st or 2nd. The consequences of losing either or both should be more apparent than ever.

  34. The British and most of Europe are a lost cause. The US will have to strictly limit immigration from England and Europe in the next 20 years just as Trump is trying to do with other countries right now.

  35. I’m not going to take credit for this, as I read it elsewhere, but it’s a good commentary.

    I’m happy to see Englishman defending themselves against an aggressor with chairs. It seems that they were at least mildly successful doing so – who can say, but without them, things may have been quite worse.

    Think how more effective they would have been if someone would invent a device to allow the projection of pint glasses with improved accuracy and velocity. Perhaps you could use some sort of combustible charge to launch the pint glass. Granted, pint glasses are a bit unwieldy, so you’d probably want to shrink them down a fair bit. Also, glass is an inherently brittle material – they’d be better served by manufacturing small, metallic pint glasses, ideally in large quantities. You could then have a device that was able to accurately and quickly hurl tiny, metal pint glasses at a threat.

    If only such a device were invented and if only the average law abiding citizen was able to purchase one for a moderate expense – think of the lives that could have been saved.

    Oh, well – we shall just do the next best thing – declaring that we stand in unison with the victims, and using a candlelight vigil to deter the next small group of people from doing something similar again.

  36. Well, England is not a lost cause to the Muslims who now own the streets of London and Manchester.

  37. Robert, as another former expat I couldn’t agree more. May should have announced this morning that she was arming (and training) all police in the U.K. starting today, arresting all living in the U.K. that have recently traveled to Syria and Libya to take part in jihad and beginning review of anyone suspected of extremist views – a quick cross referencing of tv tax records alone would likely have half of them on a boat back to where ever they came from. Instead she wants to regulate the internet – let them spout their hate on the internet so we know who the hell they are. And the shameful thing is that May is the better of Thursday’s two candidates. A shame, but Britain is lost.

    • It would do even more good to let all currently serving in the armed forces, regardless of rank, to carry weapons off base and do the same for former military and police who volunteer.

  38. Run
    Hide
    Tell
    This is what a once great country has been reduced too. My British heritage is rolling in it’s grave.

    See no evil
    Hear no evil
    Speak no evil
    This is what guides prevailing thought the world over concerning muslims. Better not be an islamophobe, that’s a really bad thing. But if they kill you, they’re just misunderstood. Just ask all the enlightened intelligentsia in Europe and North America.

    Unless the are a lot more real men in Britain like the few who fought back in the bars, all hope for the islands is lost. Unless there is a modern “Winston Churchill” hiding in the pipeline, the destiny of the British is per-ordained. Just a matter of time.

    Britain could stop all this nonsense in five minutes (the government) if they wanted too. But they don’t have the balls for the fight anymore.

    Much the shame!

  39. fool Britannia! yep , but we are not far behind them. The GOP establishment is busily deep sixing the president we elected to try change the inertia. we have different symptoms of the same disease.

  40. Throw chairs and bottles at the terrorists? Better to jab them in the face, throat and stomach with the legs and, after they go down, beat them over the head. Rather than throw a bottle, break it, get behind one of them and start carving. During the Pulse nightclub attack, I cannot understand why no one took advantage of pauses while Mateen reloaded to cut his throat with a broken bottle. The underlying principle is that, until the assailant is no longer a threat, probably because he has been too badly injured to continue, nothing you can do to him is beyond the pale. The most effective way to defend yourself is to put the bad guy on the defensive.

  41. Even the British think the British are a lost cause. That’s why some of them come to America. I hope they can handle liberty.
    from: Ariete Arms RAMLITE

  42. Yes, the Brits are comfortable tax slaves who think that the “armed police” will save them. As we’ve seen, they are there to pick up the pieces. Totally useless and helpless.

  43. Since the English passed Brexit, there is still a glimmer of hope. They just need to relearn that polite, civilized behavior is a viable option only when the opposition is equally polite and civilized. They understood that while fighting the Nazis during World War Two. The Scots, on the other hand, are done for. Maybe, it’s significant that the English conquered the Scots despite the best efforts of William Wallace and Robert Bruce who, I expect, are spinning in their graves.

  44. British men. What has happened to you? Where are you? Where are the lions of Britannia? Is the United Kingdom to be defeated by their own hand? The country that stared down the Soviet empire, that defeated the Nazi beast, that defeated the Kaisers millions in the brutal trenches. Is your nation that defeated the emperor Napoleon at his height, is it to be cut down by a disorganized mob? Are you telling me that you want to go quietly into the night when your nation once defeated the Spanish Armada? It is a most depressing day to be a defender of western civilization when the nation that built much of that civilization is killing itself by death through a thousand cuts. Are you happy to be reduced to defending yourself with bottles, chairs and clubs? British men and women, time to look to your past in order to rebuild the future. Trust yourselves and your honest culture. Stop running from truth, killing your children in the womb, and drinking yourselves to oblivion. The British bulldog needs to be awakened and the rabble and worm-tongue to be run out of the shire.

    • That genetic stock was mostly killed off in WWI, WWII killed off the remainder.

      All that’s left are the offspring of cowards and the weak. Just like intellect, bravery is mostly genetic.

      • There is truth in that. I once read an essay by a Frenchmen talking about all the scum and villainy who got with the girls in the villages after ww1. They had no choices left.

  45. As long as anyone is fighting back and not everyone abides by the mantra to “run, hide, tell” then there’s something left to lose.

    But gun rights? Yeah. Lost cause.

  46. Although I find most of what The_Resistance says offensive and poorly thought out, I appreciate the fact that he keeps the 2nd A’s here honest. There are many psychotic leftist liberals out there who have the same agenda and are willing to do anything to get their “point” across and maybe even turn some of us to their way of thinking. We must be vigilant and stay the course. In the end people like The_Resistance will choke on their own vomit. Cherish your freedom and don’t be led astray by the rants of a pathetic “Mangina” lunatic. Lock and Load!

    • The problem is that he’s not really forcing anyone to use much effort. If I didn’t know better I would think he’s just a strawman made up by someone to repeat all the platitudes and nonsense of the antis without bothering to even put it in context.

  47. *snickers*

    The country willing to accomodate well-groomed financial criminals and their money? (then so does US, but with little less leeway)

  48. Their politicians almost certainly won’t re-rempower their citizens to defend themselves against either criminal or terrorist attack.
    That said, I am dismayed by the tone I’m sensing in the 2A community – almost a sense of contempt for the victims, and even for those who attempted to fight back with whatever they could get a hold of.
    Doesn’t anyone who resists evil instead deserve praise and empathy?

    • “Doesn’t anyone who resists evil instead deserve praise and empathy?”

      On the whole, your question might be useful. In regards to a population at large (responsible for their own well being, but rejecting the idea), that abandons personal responsibility via their free vote, another situation altogether.

      Empathy/sympathy may make us feel better about ourselves, but is the feeling helpful to improve that which commands our feelings? In short, when someone is warned about doing something dangerous (doing stupid things in stupid places) and suffer the consequence (winning stupid prizes), should we be empathetic, or derisive? When someone earns a negative reward, are we to comfort ourselves through sympathy/empathy?

      Consider the two bounty hunters who got themselves killed last week. Given what we know and saw, do the dead bounty hunters deserve our empathy, or contempt?

      It is the crassness of our human nature to want what we want, but demand someone else exempt us from consequences when things go wrong.

  49. Remember one of the France attacks? A dude tried using an AK against a train? Stopped by 3 American tourists

    Not sure where I’m going with this just thought it was pretty awesome.

  50. There’s a relatively new statue in Trafalgar Square of an armless pregnant woman that’s supposed to be a symbol of overcoming disabilities. Also in the square is a statue of Nelson, the one-armed Admiral who helped England to conquer the world. A woman who can’t possible care for her child is now bravery, and Nelson is ignored. Yep, they r done.

  51. I didn’t see anyone posting about this above, but perhaps I missed it.
    Did you know that the knives the terrorists used in this attack are already just as illegal as guns are in England? Fact. “Pointy knives” were banned in England several years ago, when the banning of guns simply (predictably) led to greater use of knives in attacks. Australia even considered banning pointy sticks (No, I’m not making this up!) several years ago, following a gang fight in the street outside a nightclub. The empty lot across the street had been surveyed for construction and several of the gang members in the fight pulled up those pointed surveyor’s stakes to use as weapons. Obviously, it isn’t the English people who are unwilling to fight terrorists on their own turf, but their government, who refuses to allow them to have anything remotely resembling parity in weapons. Now why is that?

  52. So who gets to tell them that a blog in America thinks their nation is a lost cause?

    It’s a different country, different culture, different historical experience. And creator of liberal democracy, having sustained a hell of a lot more punishment and challenges in its history, of which a bunch of idiots with knives is just one. And you could argue they tend to keep their cool and sense of proportion more than we do when the a**holes of the world strike.

    Just saying, a bit of humility is a good thing.

    • Actually, ours was a common history for the majority of it, the English values and beliefs (particularly those of the English Enlightenment philosophers) form the very foundation of our American values and beliefs. Until the aftermath of WWI, our philosophy about private gun ownership and self-defense rights and responsibilities were held in common as well. It was only then, when the British government feared a revolution among a populace who had been deceived (arguably for good military reasons) about the enormous magnitude of their personnel losses in the war, that they began restricting British gun rights. So in fact, we have historically had a very similar culture and history until very recently, and perhaps the British people, reading blogs like this one, will be able to see the error of their more recent liberal/socialist policies and begin to change them back again.

      • Yes of course we share a lot in common, I didn’t mean to suggest otherwise. But it’s precisely the political violence you mention as well as their own baggage of imperialism and the different way that European liberalism developed that put us on different paths. In any case, thank you for engaging respectfully with my point.

      • I’m sure Britain will survive, firstly. Second, we’re debating the merits of citizens defending against attackers using private firearms, right? We’re not debating whether a society should use force against terrorists – not suggesting a kumbaya approach here.

        • Hi again, Faysal – I think we (most of us here anyway) are essentially debating the benefits of an armed citizenry vs. an unarmed one. I think everybody agrees that the govt needs to use armed force against terrorists.
          The problem as I see it, is that the “first responders” are ALWAYS the citizens present as targets when a terrorist incident occurs. Even with a partially armed citizenry, where certain places can still ban armed citizen’s presence, or where the demographics assure that there will be few if any armed people present (ie at the Democrat National Convention vs. the annual NRA meeting), terrorists can, and do, intentionally target such places.
          The big debate would seem to be over whether the presence of a significantly large percentage of armed citizens to make it likely that 1 or 2 would be present in any public place where terrorists might attack, presents a greater danger to the general public than it does a safety benefit. Personally, I favor the most armed citizens possible and would accept any danger they might present as just the “cost of doing business.” That said, I think the greatest danger could be expected to arise from poorly trained, or untrained, citizens with guns, and I think the best way to address that issue is by making shooting and gun safety training as cheap and widely available as possible. For example, it is perfectly feasible to include such training in secondary school curricula, just as CPR, First Aid, Physical Education, and swimming (all reasonable survival enhancing skills) could be included, or even required. The British Isles would have to begin from far behind the “power curve” now, relative to the USA, but both countries are perfectly capable of doing this. The problem is not that making arms and training widely available is an especially difficult task, but rather that neither country currently has the political will to undertake such a task. As I noted in my earlier post, this state of affairs began in England with govt fears of the Crown’s subjects revolting after WWI, but in the USA it occurred much more recently, beginning in the late 1960s, with the rise of the Hippy movement and its associated “progressive” philosophy, which generally eschews personal responsibility, not only for one’s own well-being, but also for the society as a whole, leaving such matters to govt controlled agents instead. The American West would not have been “won” if cowboys felt that way. So we are now urged to “call 911” whenever a medical emergency or crime occurs, and the state exhorts us to “be a good witness” rather than to personally intervene to stop criminal behavior or provide medical care on the spot. This attitude would have to undergo a dramatic change, reverting to our earlier beliefs in personal responsibility and individual responsibility to the society generally, before we could see any improvement. Today, if you ask an American or Englishman what he owes his society, you will likely get a blank stare. As a society, we Americans have come a long way down since JFK’ exhorted us to, “Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.”

  53. We should make a vow to ignore trolls. They live to tie the thread up into something about themselves.

    He’s a liberal idiot. Let’s drop him.

    • Disagreeing is not trolling. And I’m not a liberal, but a proud gun owner like the rest of you and a strong supporter of the second amendment.

      • He isn’t talking about you. He is talking about The_Resistance who IS a liberal troll who does nothing but post nonsense.

  54. Short of a catastrophic 9/11 type event, the backbone doesn’t exist to do what needs to be done. As long as the UK simply “bleeds” they will continue to be content with bleeding without substantive action otherwise.

  55. “Are the Brits A Lost Cause?”

    Well, that depends on the perspective, and one’s position defines one’s perspective.

    If one is looking at the situation from the perspective of a surrender monkey, then that cause sailed a long, long, LONG, time ago. If however, one is looking at the situation from the perspective that NO cause is truly lost, then that’s a different matter altogether

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