TTAG reader Phuqit (not his real name) left this underneath our April post Quote of the Day: A European Discovers America’s Gun Culture…And is Horrified:

Most Europeans have been raised in cultures that are saturated with leftist, socialist, nanny state values. The result of that is that they are used to being told what values are to be considered civilized and acceptable.

They have been flagellating each other with superficial, phony manifestations of guilt that has been trained into them as the proper response to their colonial history of exploiting, subjugating, and committing mass murder against other people who either believed differently or live the life that Europeans deemed more primitive than theirs: and thereby worthy of extermination.

The sad thing about the supposedly “civilized” Europeans is that they have conditioned the impulse for unbridled freedom without government permission right out of their societies.

Those who believe that human beings who are adults have the God-given and natural right to be free to do everything within their ability, without regard to the permission or approval of the government or others–so long as it doesn’t harm or kill other human beings– are seen as outliers, rogues, antisocial, or some other sort of pejorative term for nonconformists to the pacifist, gonad-less norms.

Unfortunately most of them don’t recognize what sheep they have become until some wonderful “migrant” is sodomizing their son, raping their wife or daughter, shooting up their church, murdering the Jews in their midst, or some other violence is being perpetrated upon them and they are incapable of exercising the most basic human right: the right of self-defense in order to preserve your own existence.

With the exception of Switzerland, because the Swiss recognize that every citizen must be armed, and equipped–mentally, physically, and emotionally–to use a weapon to protect themselves, their families, their neighbors, and their nation–Europe will either undergo some massive social reawakening regarding fundamental freedoms and basic natural rights, or it will find itself at the inevitable destination of the road that it is now upon: Eurabia.

They will be stabbed, raped, run-over with vehicles, blown up with explosives, shot dead, or have some other act of violence perpetrated upon them and their society that will drive them into the dustbin of history.

America was founded by people who recognized the fundamental nature of the natural God-given freedoms and rights into which we are all born by legacy. Quite fortunately there are still a preponderance of American citizens who will defend to the death against those who would European-ize our values into the socialist failure of the government of nearly every European nation.

No one in Sweden is ranting and raving loud enough about the fact that Swedish society is accepting of the fact that statistically speaking 25% of the female population in that sad nation will be raped–without doubt. Why human beings would accept that is what shocks ME exponentially more than exposure to the freedoms that we enjoy as Americans shocked our little European snowflake.

I, for one, will not “go gently into that good night,” but I will indeed “rage, rage against the dying of the light!” I might be found dead, lying in a ditch one day, but I guarantee that I will be lying in a pile of brass. There are many adjectives that I find appropriate to describe myself, but one mantle that I will never allow to be placed upon my existence is that of “victim.” Si vis pacem, para bellum!

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111 Responses to European vs. American Attitude On Guns

  1. Remember….during the 1940s the unarmed Europeans handed their citizens over the the socialists in German…for murder in the death camps…….if you average out the number unarmed people murdered by the socialists during world war two…their murder numbers are greater than all of our numbers from gun murder…..there is nothing to learn from Europe except how not to run your society…

    • Honestly, 2aguy – there’s no such thing as a “gun murder.” Guns don’t murder anyone. Mine are the sweetest, quietest and most compliant things on the planet. They only go “bang” when I pull the trigger.

      ALL of the murderers are human beings… or a close approximation – no matter what tools they use.

    • Yeah guys, keep dreaming.
      You can call my nation socialistic, etc, But at least my nation is not a god loving, veteran loving pile of crap.
      On some points you are right: I hated attending a good school for free and now I’m hating to attend university for free (**** you socialistic system). I also hated, that they state paid for my treatment after my motorcycle accident (thanks for that healthcare) and what I also hate is the fact that my granny and my mom don’t have to work anymore because they already have done enough (thanks pension system). Now I see it, you are completely right about our tyrannic government. What I also see, is that I’m neither Swiss nore Czeck, although I’m owning 2 handguns and several rifles (So much about Europe is gun law hell! You can’t generalize that!).
      I also don’t know where you got that numbers about Sweden and i don’t even care.
      + the US don’t have a “arabic” imigration problem, not because they have the 2A, but because they are living literally on the other side of the world!
      One last note at the end: You know why we have so many imigrants in Europe? Because basically the US decided to invade several countries in the near and middle east without permission of the UN. Which destabilized their governments and started civil wars. This directly led into Al Quaida and IS(IS). So thanks for that world police.
      You don’t want to realize that the US is playing a role in the world, nobody is wanting, nobody is asking for and nobody is liking.

      • The problem is that the funding for all those programs was taken from you without consent. You can’t opt out, you can’t move outside the lines. Even if you like what the programs are doing for you right now, the simple fact is, they are being funded without your express consent. You may be supporting your friends, but you are also providing financial and material support to people you don’t like, and people who don’t like you, and maybe even hate you. Those are the breaks of a socialist system, you really don’t get to decide where your tax dollars go. I’m not sure how your taxation works, but I’m going to surmise it’s California-on-steroids, where every little action you take is taxed, and taxed massively. And you have little say as to where that money goes.

        One of the hallmarks of the United States is that we’re one of the last places where individual rights are still somewhat respected. And there’s some of us working towards making individual rights even more paramount. It’s not selfishness by any stretch, it’s just common respect for human dignity.

        And now, before you judge in advance, one fun fact about our country is that we voluntarily give, and we give a lot. Untold billions of dollars are voluntarily signed over by average Americans to charities each and every year. Religious-based ones, secular ones, and everything in between. Nevermind the staggering amount of informal giving in either currency or in kind.

        Outside of some of our urban areas, most Americans would gladly provide you with shelter, and the basics if you are in need, either directly or through charities. If you fall on hard times, there’s some private organization out there that will help. Yes, in your society this is all done through taxation, but there’s a huge difference between your way and mine:

        My way is done voluntarily and with my full consent. I help fund causes I find worthy, and others do the same. And, if we took away the income tax, for example, most of what society values would be paid for and covered. If it’s important, people will pay for it. They don’t need a gun to their head to convince them otherwise. People will seek out and pay for quality education, for example. People will seek out and pay for quality medical care. Government intervention drives up the cost of both enormously in this country. When you’ve got a budget of stolen money bigger than Scrooge’s money vault, it’s easy to jack up the cost and pad your pockets. Take away the misbegotten budget, and suddenly you have to compete on quality of service and value. The market at work.

        As for our individual rights you seemingly pooh-pooh, that’s why we’re successful, we acknowledge them. We have the right to speak our minds, and defend ourselves by any means we deem appropriate, not what the government thinks is appropriate.

        Now, I’m not 100% positive on which nation you live in, but I’m gonna wager that it’s the UK. You champion your gun control, but truth be told, a lot of your countrymen have firearms, and the majority of those guns are off-the-books. They don’t talk to you about them because they don’t want you to tell the government. A quick scan of some data indicates that there’s 1.8 million guns in civilian hands that the government of your nation knows about. There’s 4 million (or more) that they estimate people have hidden away somewhere. Gun control always breeds defiance.

        http://reason.com/archives/2012/12/22/gun-restrictions-have-always-bred-defian/print

        It’s funny that way – people enjoy a right for decades, even centuries, and when it’s scaled back, compliance is low.

        Our own nation is proof of this. On a state (regional) level, governments have tried to enact gun control, and it’s almost always blown up in their face. One of our more violent states, New York, enacted a registration and confiscation scheme of “assault weapons” (a made-up term to denote any gun that appears intimidating) and under penalty of imprisonment (extrapolated to death) people were either supposed to register, transfer out of state, or destroy certain guns in their possession. After a few years of this law, compliance was estimated to be less than 5 percent.

        And just to humor your preconceived notions about us violent Yanks, remember that about 230 years ago, your ancestors tried to take military weapons away from my ancestors. We didn’t just knuckle under and comply because some syphilitic fop with a fancy crown wanted our guns, we stood up and shot your ancestors. And we shot more of them. And we kept shooting until you all turned tail and ran. Others around the globe repeated the process, until y’all kind of just gave up and let the Empire fall apart.

        Have fun with your socialism. It might seem nice now, but there may come a day when someone who isn’t so nice is calling the shots in your nation, and then you might be in a bit of a quandary. Those 4 million untracked guns will suddenly become quite useful.

        • If I may, the Government’s use of tax dollars for social programs is more akin to letting the Government tell me just how charitable I must be, and to what purposes. And, it means that my judgement regarding which people and purposes are worthy of support, no longer matters.

      • School, university and health care aren’t “free”. Somebody pays for them, just a question of who.

        • TANSTAAFL – There Ain’t No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

          – Robert Heinlein, “The Moon is a Harsh Mistress”

        • Was preparing to write your exact response.

          Btw, my failing to pay for your education or healthcare, or retirement or birth-control, etc is NOT denying it from you. Pay your own way and get some dignity you free-loader.

        • Dick just loves him some ‘free’ stuff. In other words, he loves the government forcing other people to pay for his free ride.

      • “You can call my nation socialistic, etc, But at least my nation is not a god loving, veteran loving pile of crap.”

        Yeah yeah yeah, we get it. God doesn’t exist because you have it all figured out and we’re big interventionist meanies, as evidenced by the fact that we take care of our veterans.

        Europeans are so arrogant.

        • Do we really care for our veterans so well? Seems that we honor them far more in social media posts than in actual support for their medical needs after they’ve been injured serving us.

        • Woah, I don`t say god doesn’t exist. I’m just saying, talking about a “god given” right is
          pretty blasphemic and crazy. Especially in the context of owning firearms (missed that part in the bible).
          I also honor veterans, but with the honor they deserve. A veteran doesn’t have the right to attack people
          (mistreating flag, stolen valor) because he “faught” in a war or was injured in battle. Walking on a landmine ins’t a achievement.
          And don’t come with, they are fighting for a freer world or your or mine safety. None of this is true, but a lot of US citizens are too close-minded to understand this fact.
          And how are Europeans arrogant. The articles on this page are often insulting Europeans and their views, so you started the fight (as so often), but (as always) didn’t notice.
          Here in Europe we also respect veterans (welfare system, re-education system, etc..), but what I’m saying that we (me and a lot of my friends) don’t idolize them, as you do. We don’t honor them in every sport event, we don’t honor them in parades. We are on one level, he honors me for doing my job as much as I respect him for his job.

        • The Founders were a rather well-read bunch of fellows. As such they were, save for John Jay, not religious men. The were at most generous, deists – they believed in a “god” when they needed to explain something that science didn’t yet have an explanation for. Also, it was much easier to sell the concept of “inherent human rights” when you tell the uneducated that a deity wants you to have them. Of course, a bit surprising since you attended quality primary school (let alone at uni), that you didn’t already know that.

          Whatever socialist EU economy you live in, do realize that your country, society, and culture is quickly coming to an end. You have been invaded by a people required by their religion to destroy you, and this time not only are you not fighting it, you are funding it. They outbreed civilized people. 4 or 5 to 1. As Arafat said “To the bedrooms!” and your welfare state will fund it all. Guess you’re OK with your grandchildren living in the 8th century. Do enjoy your smug superiority to us Yanks. If you live long enough, you’ll likely be disabused of the notion.

        • First of all, why should i have to know anything about the “Founders”.
          And as you said, it’s a technique used to manipulate easy minded people in the 18th century.
          Great idea to keep that concept. If you’re still living in the 18th century you could talk about your “god given right”, but not nowadays. By the way, where exactly in the 2A it mentions “god given”.

          “your country, society, and culture is quickly coming to an end.” Thanks for that generalization, allmighty, all-knowing master. At least my “socialist economy” has something I can call a culture.
          One more note: There weren’t any attacks in my country yet, not like 9/11, racial motivated terrorism, Boston marathon, and many more. I can sleep much more peacefully than you can.

          “Guess you’re OK with your grandchildren living in the 8th century.” I think some of your folks in the south are still living fine there.

        • AutismOverTexas, you said Richard H was arrogant. Boy, is he. An insufferable twit, and stupid as well. He needs a bit more takedown than that.

          He actually offers, as the reason America is a “pile of crap,” that Americans love God and our veterans. Well, guilty as charged, I guess, and what would be the appropriate punishment for that? Those are obviously good, noble qualities. Even if you are an activist atheist, loving God is at worst a silly thing, a weightless neutral in the scale of good-bad. So he has equated good qualities with being a “pile of crap.” Only a demon could propose that good = bad.

          Then he lists all the stuff he gets for free in his socialist paradise. Without any awareness that someone – someone else, not him – has to pay for all that. In fact part of that “someone else” is the American taxpayer, who funds the defense umbrella America has provided the western world – enabling the the Pax Americana – ever since saving it in for the second time in WWII. Having the US provide the lion’s share of your defense goes a long way toward enabling a welfare state. About this, just as about so much else, Richard H is stupid, ignorant, and obliviously ungrateful.

          His whole point in listing all the handouts he receives is that somehow we Americans are bad for earning our own rather than expecting someone else to provide for us. Again, he appears to be not just stupid but essentially evil in equating self reliance, “polling one’s own weight,” with bad, and reliance on handouts, made possible by government forcing others to provide, as good. This is not just misguided thinking, it is immoral.

          There is some truth to his remarks about American actions in the middle east, but he has the situation inverted. Like our failures in care for our veterans, our government makes mistakes. And for a time – 8 years – we had a bad, inept government. That government essentially withdrew America from the world stage, leaving a horrible vacuum. For some reason Sweden didn’t step into it, various malevolent forces did, reflecting the nature of the world Richard H would be living in without America playing the role in the world that he says no one wants it to. And bad things have happened. But this was not so much because of what we did, as because of what we didn’t do. We got out of Iraq, stopped being the world’s policeman, and apologized to the world.

          And still the William H’s of the world were are happy with us.

        • ” An insufferable twit, and stupid as well.” Thanks. It’s always good to insult somebody in an argument.

          I’m saying you are over idiolizing your veterans and god. The peoples will is over gods will and science is over gods will and should be taught like that (Darwin, Lamarck, etc.. e.g.). Those are nearly proven theories and should be taught to EVERYBODY. Also being a veteran shouldn’t give anybody the right to assault people, which are talking negatively about the so called “freedoms” and the state (which happens).

          “Only a demon”, which year are you living in? 1627? Yep, burn me at the stake!

          “someone else, not him – has to pay for all that.”. I’m working and paying taxes too, as everybody else in my nation.
          The citizens of the nation are paying most of the system (who earns more, pays more and vise versa).

          “In fact part of that “someone else” is the American taxpayer”. LOL. You can’t be serious about that. If you really believe it, not even god could help you. The US are basically a big Chinese debt account.

          “[…] ever since saving it in for the second time in WWII. Having the US provide the lion’s share of your defense goes a long way toward enabling a welfare state.” I have to admit partly true, but there were 3 more in the jeep and you are also trying to say that it was all your work. You gave a little spark, we had to start the fire.

          “Richard H is stupid, ignorant, and obliviously ungrateful.” See point one and the one above.
          ” he appears to be not just stupid but essentially evil in equating self reliance”, same thing.

          DISPROVE MY FACTS (WITH VALID PROOFS) , RATHER THAN INSULTING ME!

          “That government essentially withdrew America from the world stage, leaving a horrible vacuum.”
          No you didn’t. Sadly. But you made negotiations pretty useless with your shoot first ask/think later mentality.

          “We got out of Iraq, stopped being the world’s policeman, and apologized to the world.” Not really, still drone-ing and bombing sovereign states (MOAB over Afghanistan, f.e.).Or by threatening war to nearly everybody, who hasn’t the same views as you.

        • First of all, why should i have to know anything about the “Founders”

          Because you’re claiming some education, and making arguments about them. So yeah, you might want to have the bona fides to back that up.
          .
          And as you said, it’s a technique used to manipulate easy minded people in the 18th century.
          Great idea to keep that concept. If you’re still living in the 18th century you could talk about your “god given right”, but not nowadays. By the way, where exactly in the 2A it mentions “god given”

          Doesn’t have to, mentioned in the foreword. I’m beginning to think your education rudimentary at most generous..

          “your country, society, and culture is quickly coming to an end.” Thanks for that generalization, allmighty, all-knowing master. At least my “socialist economy” has something I can call a culture.
          One more note: There weren’t any attacks in my country yet, not like 9/11, racial motivated terrorism, Boston marathon, and many more. I can sleep much more peacefully than you can.

          Historically accurate generalization, yet to be proven wrong in over 1000 years. You’re welcome. As to you having a “culture”, it will be the one Islam dictates in a coupla-few decades. You can only sleep soundly by virtue of your willful ignorance of what is actually transpiring. Too bad they never taught you world history.

          “Guess you’re OK with your grandchildren living in the 8th century.” I think some of your folks in the south are still living fine there.

          Once again, you can’t actually argue facts, so you resort to ad hominems. Does your pathetic country teach logic or argumentative skills in school? Because you’re a desperate example of why they should.

      • Some of your comments are valid. Others, not so much.

        Does the United States act as the “world police”. Yep, we do. However, the next time Europe’s got a crazy person’s army knocking on the gates of Paris, London, Brussels, etc., i.e. Kaiser Bill, Hitler, Stalin, Milosevic, and now Putin scaring the crap out of eastern Europe, deal with it yourselves.

        Ditto for the Mideast, ISIS and Al-Qaeda. We certainly made a mess of “The Arab Spring”, etc. However, it was a mess made by Europeans, primarily the British and French. Had the British and French kept the deal they made with Faisal in exchange for Arab help with the Ottoman Empire in WW I and not made competing promises to Jews living in Palestine, there might be less problems in the Middle East now. Basically, the US has been trying to clean up another European mess. We don’t always doe a good job of it, but cut us a little slack. You need a pretty big shovel to clean up after that European parade.

        You did not get a free education, free university and free healthcare. You have to be pretty simple minded to think that anything you get from the government is “free”. You may not have paid for it directly, but that’s because the people paying taxes did. So long as everyone’s willing to pull the wagon for as long as they can, Socialism can work out. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people that aren’t so altruistic and are willing to leach off of everyone else willing to do their part and never let us forget what happened to the horse in Animal Farm.

        You may be right about rape numbers in Sweden. My quick check says there’s around 5,000-6,000 rapes reported in Sweden annually with an estimate that 80% are never reported. Don’t know how many women live in Sweden so I’m ignorant of how many years it would take to reach 25% of the population.

        Don’t get me wrong. The United States isn’t perfect by a long shot, but it’s a whole lot better place to live than some other places. Ditto for the European nations.

        • Richard H, a serious question for you –

          If America actually was a shithole of a country you seem to think it is, *why* is America the undisputed number 1 country people *dream* of immigrating to?

          And 16V wasn’t in the least exaggerating when he told you Islam *will* destroy the culture you clearly hold dear. They will never say it to your face, but that is *exactly* what their ‘holy book’ demands to be a ‘Good Muslim’.

          It’s also a religious *requirement* for them to lie, if it is in the interest of Islam.

          There is no such thing as co-existing with Islam. You will be given one of three choices when they take political control of your country. Convert to Islam, pay whatever ‘infidel’ tax they demand, or submit. Imagine the very worst form of submission you can think of, and that’s *exactly* what it will be. If they want to rape your 10 year-old daughter, they will, and they may make you and your wife watch.

          If you reject those three choices, you get the sword.

          Europe gets three generations, tops, before that happens…

        • Geoff, he has no response to you, because deep down, he knows you’re right.

      • How wonderful for you… all that “free” stuff. But do you honestly believe that it is actually free? Where does all that come from? Someone has to pay the doctors, teachers and so forth. Someone has to pay to build the buildings, bring in the utilities and feed everyone. All “free?” Or are these things paid for by a vast redistribution of goods stolen from everyone who actually works and earns anything? Did you ever think about where all that “free” stuff came from?

        Socialism sounds pretty good to parasites, until they run out of other people’s money. Or until they realize they are herd animals, kept in perpetual slavery. Doesn’t sound like a great life to me. Unfortunately, far too many Americans are buying the same “free stuff” lies.

      • ^^The only reason you and all your West-Euro pals can afford to live in luxurious socialist welfare states is because the big old mean United States has been bankrolling your militaries since 1948. Then again, given the political tendencies of most Europeans, most of you probably would have been happy if the Iron Curtain extended to the Spanish border. You can thank the CIA for stopping those outright communist takeovers you people call “democratic elections” in Italy and France post-war.

        As for the Middle East, only the East/Central Europeans seem to remember that primitive savages from Arabia attempted to expand the caliphate through the Balkans and beyond the gates of Vienna countless times. Belgrade was besieged by the Ottomans ten times in +/- 150 years. Crowds of fit and trim young Syrian men are not “refugees,” what part of that do you not understand? When female victims of migrant rape are more afraid of being called “racist” for going to the police than seeking help and pressing charges, as seen in Germany, your culture is in its death throes.

        • The only reason you and all your West-Euro pals can afford to live in luxurious socialist welfare states is because the big old mean United States has been bankrolling your militaries since 1948

          Waffenslammer98 for the win!

          Although you really have to go back even farther to 1941 or 1942 when the U.S. jumped into the European theater in World War II. Had we not jumped in, all of Europe (what would be left of it after the Nazis finished executing tens of millions of additional “undesireables”) would be speaking German … or Russian depending on which nation ultimately would have taken control.

          Our nation’s annual military expenditure — just the part which ensures that Europe remains free — is greater than the entire annual budget of most governments in the entire world. If all the European nations who enjoy that benefit had to cover that expense themselves, their standard of living would be considerably lower than it has been.

        • I’ve been looking for this waffenslammer98.
          Absent the US contributions to the UN, NATO, and essentially vouchsafeing the security of western European nations in addition to defeating the Soviets nearly single handedly, the EU would be just another bunch of Soviet satilite states. Somehow spared that fate, they would be hopelessly mired in debt from defense spending.

          The US is the great father, and the western European nations it’s protected children. Like children, they dally and play, for there is no work to do, all the grown up stuff father takes care of.

          Left to thier own, many of these nations wouldn’t even exist anymore. In fact, one could make the argument that at the end of WWII the Brits and the Americans could just have well shared out virtually all of Europe with the Russians and simply ended the existence of most of these petty states. That they will now go broke while simultaneously allowing the destruction of thier own cultures from within should be of little suprise.

          Each day, Europeans who value their culture should awake and give praise to the United States, who kept the Brits and Soviets in the second world War until they could be rescued from the Germans, the Americans, who through ingenuity and sacrifice and mettle held back the Soviets for generations while the Europeans played, and now it is the US everyone looks to to deal with the new threat, since no one in Europe seems to know how anymore, if they have in the last 100 years.

      • French/Germans/Brits are so cool-looking on TV clips – guys in military uniforms standing around with their automatic weapons at the low ready – looking very serious – after the muslims have run over and killed many of their unarmed citizens and tourists, and injured maimed dozens of others.

        Or the Swedish cops standing around a perimeter with a few burned-out cars in one of non-existent no-go areas of Stockholm or Malmo.

        I haven’t seen any of these pictures from Poland or Hungary. Wonder what is the difference? Don’t know what happened to Austria – I guess the defenders of Vienna either threw in with the Nazis in WWII, or were killed by them – whatever they certainly look willing to ‘repeat history’ but with a different outcome this time.

      • Arrogance. Try paying for all you perks and benefits without the umbrella the U.S. has provided you these past 50 years..

      • The first mistake you inbred Europeans always make is you assume Americans give a shit what you think of us. We don’t. Kindly F@#k off and wallow in your nanny state with 75% tax rate and no individual right to opt out of all those “free” government programs.

        • The whole article above is about what you are thinking about us.
          But sure, keep thinking that I don’t have any rights.

      • “But at least But at least my nation is not a god loving, veteran loving pile of crap.”

        So what you’re saying is your nation is a God hating, veteran hating pile of crap?

      • Classic troll.

        Most people are like Hobbits: “They forgot or ignored what little they had ever known of the Guardians, and of the labors of those that made possible the long peace of the Shire. They were, in fact, sheltered, but they had ceased to remember it.”

      • Ummm yeah Richard H. sing the praises of being a serf, a peasant, a virtual slave. A slave gets “free” health care, a prisoner in jail gets “free” health care, a child at home gets “free” healthcare. But they are all denied the ability to keep and bear arms for their own defense, and the defense of others. You depend on your state approved enforcers for that.
        In the end, you are still a servant, a prisoner, and a slave to your “betters”, your owners, your masters. So bow down and worship at the foot of your master, the state.

  2. He writes one of the best pieces I’ve read on TTAG and that’s what he thinks up for a screen name?

      • Charlemagne’s grandpa. Slaughtered the Moose-lims at the battle of Tours 732AD…saved Europe. Until now😡

    • And fewer people know it was actually duke Odo of Aquitaine who saved western Europe from the Muslim hordes by slaughtering 90,000 of them at the Battle of toulouse in 721AD………the area around toulouse was known to the Muslims as the “road of martyrs” for centuries afterwards…

  3. It’s hard to say what the rape rate is in Sweden since their system of statistics for crime depends on accusations and not on convictions.

    • Malmo Sweden has had 100 muslim perpetrated hand grenade attacks over the last two years. That’s an average of one per week. Officially, the authorities don’t mention them, but some folks keep a running log of them through back page newspaper reports..

  4. Saying that 25% of the females in Sweden will be raped is completely untrue and ridiculous.

    • Too right. Likely at least 50-60% will be. Course, most of them won’t report it.

      Wait til the baby boom starts.

      • If you really believe that, then I have some swamp land in Florida for sale that I think you might be interested in.

        • So. How hard was it to sell you the swamp land in the first place?

          Or like most lefties you’re trying to sell something you don’t have title to.

      • Why do you think so many of us read TTAG daily? You never know what someone is going to a spout off in the comments section and that is free entertainment.

  5. The problem with european socialists, and their so called health care for all and no guns, is they are able to provide these things because they do not have to pay for their countries to be protected by military. We the USA tax payers pay for it, through our military. Why not pull out of these countries and let them fend for themselves?

      • But for how long?

        That’s the funny thing about rely on someone else for your own security. Eventually all good things must come to an end.

        • “That’s the funny thing about rely on someone else for your own security. Eventually all good things must come to an end.”

          North Korea will learn that lesson in the near future.

          *snicker*

  6. European gun laws are pretty good when compared to Asian, African, South American, Indian, and Middle Eastern gun laws. But, noticing this would mess up the sloppy anti-colonialist/boomer europhobe arguments presented here. It’s not like the United States was built by and for Europeans or that the Founders considered themselves the inheritors of English & Greco-Roman civic thought.

    • European firearms laws, with minor exception given to the Swiss and the Czechs, are horrible. California has weak gun laws, comparatively speaking, of course. If you can excuse the firearms laws of the bulk of European nations, you are an apologist for tyrants, nothing more. Begone from us, may your chains rest lightly upon you.

    • We don’t need anyone with us, who isn’t with us.

      none mic mic ain’t from here. She’s from someplace the alarmists here will save from their invited jihadis, by nuking them. Cause YES only 25% of the Swedish women wil be raped, and that’ll be purely a hate FV<K because the rage fV<k rapes will be saved for Sweden's men, because that's how muslims role.

      And the eu won't outlive G.B.'s monkeys on Gibralta.

  7. The far left had adopted a policy of Muslim Supremacy. While at the same time being atheist extremists. I don’t get it. Either way, I see all of continental western Europe being firmly under the thumb of Eurabia within the decade. Switzerland and possibly the Chech republic will survive as enclaves. I predict Britain will survive, as Brexit and subsequent conservative victories has shown the British are gaining they’re balls back, with added benifit of the channel.

    • Don’t lump all of atheists with the left. Myself and plenty of others are very conservative. I’m not one of those looking to remove God from the pledge of allegiance. That’s the way it was written and that’s the way it should remain. You do yours and I’ll do mine. I think everyone should be free to believe what they want but the constitution should remain unadulterated.

      • For being such a proud atheist, you really need to learn history. Let me give you a little hit, 1954 and Eisenhower. Also try Jeffersonian Bible.

        • There is no such thing as the Jefferson Bible. Or, more correctly, there are two different ones, if you want to look at it like that. But Jefferson read and studied the entire Bible. What most people think is the Jefferson Bible are really two different subsets of the Bible, each created for a specific purpose, and neither one supplanted the entire Bible..

        • You can order your own copy of the Jefferson (new testament) bible…side-by-side bible verses in Greek, Latin, French and English. Want to say either Monticello or Smithsonian has one of whole ‘donor’ bibles where he cut out the various passages.
          http://americanhistory.si.edu/jeffersonbible/

          Smithsonian preserved it several years ago and has a video about the process.

          Jefferson considered himself a ‘primitive Christian’ and his bible was an attempt to strip away all of the miracles and other things he thought others had added over time – to the true teachings of Christ.

        • Jefferson considered himself a ‘primitive Christian’ and his bible was an attempt to strip away all of the miracles and other things he thought others had added over time – to the true teachings of Christ.

          Wrong.

          As typical, people who talk about the so-called “Jefferson Bible” have zero idea what they are talking about. First of all, there is no such thing as the Jefferson Bible. Or rather, there are two versions, depending on how you want to spin it. Listen up and learn.

          Jefferson read and studied the ENTIRE Bible and referred to it often in his writings, of which we have over 19,000 originals. Jefferson was a member of the Virginia Bible Society which distributed full texts of the Bible. Jefferson gave complete Bibles as gifts. He donated generously to the Virginia Bible Society, even when he experienced a personal financial crisis. Jefferson personally helped finance one of America’s groundbreaking editions of the Bible, America’s first hot-pressed Bible. There’s much more I could write about this but I think that’s sufficient.

          So what about this “cutting words out” stuff that we hear about? This “strip away all of the miracles and other things he thought others had added over time” that you mentioned? For years Jefferson promoted Christianity among various Native American Indian tribes. When he was president he signed a law authorizing funds for churches, missionaries, and Christian schools among the Indians. Actually he signed two laws, one in 1802 and another one in 1804 to “propagate the Gospel” among the Indians.

          Edward Dowse, one of Jefferson’s friends, advocated promoting Christianity among the Indians by using the simple teachings of Jesus–simply using only Jesus’ words. This idea came from a preacher in Scotland.

          So, in 1804 Jefferson prepared a work for them using nothing but Jesus’ own words, just as had been recommended in 1799 by the Scottish preacher. Jefferson took two Bibles he had in the White House and cut from them the words of Jesus from the gospels and then pasted those words into a separate book, arranging them so that the Indians could read the teachings of Jesus in a nonstop end-to-end fashion. Basically it was nothing but the “red letters” from today’s Bibles compiled into a short, pithy work to be read by Indians. Jefferson himself said that this was an abridgement of the four Gospels for the use of the Indians. No original copy of that has survived, but we DO have Jefferson’s title page for it, his handwritten notes and lists of the passages, and the two Bibles Jefferson used to make that work for the Indians.

          Since we have the original Bibles, we know exactly what Jefferson cut out, and it did include all the miracles, etc. for the Indians, including healings and resurrections. He didn’t leave any “mystical” stuff out. It included all of Jesus’ talk about Heaven and Hell, angels, and everything else Jesus spoke about.

          Is it THIS Jefferson Bible you are referring to? No?

          In 1820 Jefferson took a different approach. He spent several years planning and preparing something for a specific purpose. He titled it The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth. On numerous occasions he said that the sole purpose of this work was to collect and present the major moral teachings of Jesus in one short, simple collection. Jefferson was a scholar who studied a lot and was well-read in the writings of other famous teachers and leaders throughout history. He was a scholar of moral teachings. Jefferson critiqued the moral teachings of secular writers, finding some good in them but also lies and misrepresentations. (Many founding fathers also wrote books on morality and talked about the importance of morality). Morality was a big thing back then, not so much now I guess. Jefferson believed the moral teachings of Jesus needed nothing added from any other philosopher, whether Christian or not. Jefferson wrote, “The doctrines which flowed from the lips of Jesus Himself are within the comprehension of a child; but thousands of volumes have not yet explained the teachings of Plato—and for this obvious reason: that nonsense can never be explained.” Anyway, in this second book he arranged the teachings of Jesus according to time or subject. This work also contained all the teachings about healing, Heaven, Hell, angels, eternal life, the Holy Spirit, resurrection, and the Second Coming of Christ. Jefferson’s grandson also talked about this work.

          Is THIS the Jefferson Bible you are talking about? This has the same name as the one you linked, The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth. You said it stripped away all of the miracles and other things he thought others had added over time, but that is a lie. This work contained all the teachings about healing, Heaven, Hell, angels, eternal life, the Holy Spirit, resurrection, and the Second Coming of Christ.

          Shall I go on?

    • Eastern Europe will survive.Poland will be a regional power, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia, Hungary, croatia, maybe austria….those states should be fine..

  8. White people are slaves now in Europe. And its going to get much much worse there. When the Muslims start destroying the European art museums I wonder if the three L’s will finally wake up? The only important thing Americans need to know is white Europeans are slaves and they like it that way. The problem is Libertarians, Liberals and the Left want open borders to allow these sorry @ss Europeans to come here.
    I predict the great art museum in France, the Louve we be attacked by Muslim terrorist before President Trump leaves office.


    Gary Johnson is a Complete Idiot by Paul Joseph Johnson.

  9. Daniel Hannen (a Euro parliament member) claimed a decade to two ago, that there were more EU laws restricting UK citizen’s behavior than there were UK laws. At the time I didn’t even know the UK was an EU member. They were a Lisbon treaty signatory, but not a Mastrict treaty signatory.

    But you gotta laugh, if the stories are true, that they voted for Brexit because (in part) the EU was going to ban their electric tea kettles and muffin toasters.

    • Britain joined the EU in 1973 and we in New Zealand immediately lost our largest trading partner – Britain took almost all of our primary produce. The Poms (as we call them – short for Prisoner of Her Majesty, during Australian penal colony times) forgot that we contributed massively to their food supply and military manpower during WWII, and instead sided with the cheese eating surrender monkeys and the children of the Nazis. Our economy dropped drastically, but we eventually recovered, so the Poms will have to do some pretty fancy begging to get our foodstuffs back again at the same price levels. The EU is just Germany’s way of conquering Europe again without all the messy tank and blitzkrieg business. It’s all doomed to fail, as per Daniel, Chapter 2. Maybe they’re better off being ruled by a new Caliphate. They deserve it.

      • Where is the “like” button? “Cheese-eating surrender monkeys” deserves some recognition.

  10. Europeans are serfs. Americans are descended from people who said “eff this” and left for America because they were tired of being told what to do.

    As for Europe’s trajectory, people refuse to see what will happen because it seems inconceivable. Well, you can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality. It’ll smack you in the face eventually.

    • Partially true. Remember, America has been a melting pot all along, not just in the 19th and 20th centuries.

      Some Americans are descended from people who were tired of being told that they don’t have the authority to to tell others what to do. So these tyrant wannabes said eff this and left for what would become America. See the Purinists for an example. For some people, liberty means having the freedom to dictate to others.

  11. European gun control laws aren’t noticeably more than a distinction without a difference when comparing them to South America, East Asia, or the Middle East. The sole exception to this rule, as accurately noted in the article, being Switzerland. And even then, only to a point. Oh, and regardless of the origins of this country’s founding and its founders, the current political climate in Europe (i.e. what is actually relevant here and is discussed in the article) outright makes the anti-socialist commentary presented here all too accurate, as well. But, noticing this would mess up.. whatever (non)point it is you were trying to make.

    • Oh, the Swiss understand the second amendment better that we do. It’s not about buying any toy you want, but also training and learning how to be effective as an individual and as a unit.

  12. Europe stands upon the edge of a knife. Stray but a little, and it will fail, to the ruin of it all.

  13. Civilizations rise and fall. Europe has collective ennui. I don’t think of it as European civilization ending so much as being cast free from the dock of the present, at which it has become dry-rotted and barnacle-encrusted, to sail off into history. Be calm, bear it gracefully.

  14. Europeans may awaken before they completely destroy themselves but even if they do, they’re going to wake up in a Europe that is far different than the one that they fell asleep in.

    Even if their men were to awaken tomorrow and fully comprehend the error of their ways, one has to wonder: How does the eunuch get his testicles back?

    The socialism disease is far more advanced in most of Europe than it is here in the United States… and frankly, that should scare the hell out of any rational person.

  15. As a german i can absolutely positively confirm that europe is filled with virtue signalling left wing idiots.
    We have 1.5 million hunters and sport shooters and some people in the right mind, but the vast majority of germany is now controlled by the infamous 1968 generation. Bunch of crazy indoctrinated hippies. The only thing they learned during 13 years of school was their own german guilt and now they are more than happy that they can finally sacrifice their own culture, nation and lifes for the poor immigrants of the world. They grew up in hatred for the own nation and now seek to destroy it. Especially the green and all the socialist parties. We now have the AfD, a libertarian and conservative party that is pro-gun, pro-bordercontrol and pro-freedom – both individual and on the market. Guess what. Somebody called them a nazi and now the completely brainwashed idiots that can vote will give them a nationwide result of less than 10%. Germany is doomed because people aren’t just sheeple but suicidal masochists.

    • … the vast majority of germany is now controlled by the infamous 1968 generation. Bunch of crazy indoctrinated hippies.

      Now that is interesting … I thought that only happened in the United States!

  16. I’d say there little need to equate all of Europe’s left-leaning politicians with anti-gun stances. Sure, many leftists do favor gun control, but European politics are not the same as in the US.

    I’m a Czech and our current efforts to pass an ammendment to our constitution that would represent a (sadly weaker) version of the US 2nd Ammendment are being pushed by pro-gun politicians from many corners of our political spectrum. Many of those pro-gun politicians would be considered outright communists by most Americans – and yet they do feel the need to stand up to the stupidity of the EU in regards to firearms.

    Thing is, even people who feel it is a good idea to set taxes high (and then spend a lot on things like public schools and medical care) can understand it is a good idea to let people protect themselves and their loved ones from violent criminals or worse.

    • The engineers and craftsmen from Brno in the Czech Republic have always produced some of the finest weapons ever made. There is no doubt that a bunch of passionate gun makers are a bulwark against the Socialist tide that has eaten away most of Europe. More power to you.

  17. “Europe” – a chunk of adjacent geography so “unified” that after centuries of civil wars, the last two spilling out to the rest of the world, they’ve decided to try unification under outside invaders. That almost worked once.

  18. Was not the Middle East less of a global problem before the Europeans exported their flavor of division there?

  19. The very young lady from Denmark who wrote the original piece was very uninformed. She seemed to think that she lived in a firearm free utopia and the US was a firearms drenched wasteland. In reality, many European countries allow firearms ownership, even machine guns. And many US states allow firearms ownership, even machine guns. The thing that seems to set us apart is jihadism via real military firearms (usually black market). In this area, Europe stands out.

    Back to the well intentioned naif, her culture likely led her to believe something untrue about her society. That happens in all societies and hopefully time and an inquisitive mind will bring her around.

    • “And many US states allow firearms ownership, even machine guns.”

      *ALL* US states allow firearm ownership, all US states have some form of legal firearm carry outside the home.

      And yes, many allow machine gun ownership.

      We’re working on making *every* state legal for machine guns… 🙂

  20. European vs. American attitude on guns…

    Ameicans do things themselves first, with the state a group buying club for things more conveniently done together. Europeans do things through collectives, in which individuals find their place: state, volk, “Europe”, the U N, and they’ll be the first to submit themselves to the Galactic Empire.

    Different attitudes on guns just follow.

    Related, Europeans are conflicted abiut Islam because, while it’s at odds with their proclaimed values, it also gives them something big to submit to. With The European Project stumbling, and the U N toothless, the House of Submission is perhaps the leading candidate for a world government, for our European friends to find their place within.

    Attitudes on guns differ, because they love deciding big things. “It should be…”, “The world should be…”, “Government should be…” They don’t seem to mind that deciding the big thing will be the last decision they make. They seem to relish that, actually: a feature, not a bug.

    Nobody should have guns because deciding that big thing gets them off tbe hook of deciding every day to carry, or not; to disarm the guy on the train, or not; to confront the xmss gropers, or not. They’d rather ban trucks, than deal with using trucks safely every day.

    It doesn’t seem to bug them that “A walking population is easier to control.”, as the God-Emperor said.

  21. French voters are choosing a president amid high unemployment and security woes — for all the governments in the EU have promised, they can’t generate jobs nor keep their countries secure. Germany is the only benefactor of the EU shotgun marriage but Angela Merkel has seen fit to even destroy that with an unabated influx of refugees. Italy is on the verge of collapse financially — it is only a matter of time. The Nordic countries of started to realize the policies they have in place have screwed them.

    Yeah, that EU style of government is doing great! It has made millions dependents of the state while brain washing the youth to believe that only the state can fix anything and they themselves have no power to change the problems within their countries.

    Viva La Pen and hope France is the next country in Europe to give the rest of the EU a middle finger.

  22. Two points: Had the colonial Europeans done a better job of exterminating primitive peoples we’d have less problems today. And, it has been suggested that the problem with Europe is that all the heroic and adventurous people fled to North America seeking opportunity so that now only the dregs remain.

    • The French Foreign Legion was predominantly conscripts shanghaied from elsewhere. Those people didn’t return to France to breed warriors.

    • The French Foreign Legion was predominantly conscripts shanghaied from elsewhere. Those people didn’t return to France to breed warriors.

      Macron started the countdown.

  23. love the Map
    Gun control is about Control period so when the ruling class F-up their subjects have vary little recourse to rectify the situation!
    Generations raised under a Government that has heavy control are conditioned from birth that what ever the Government in power doesn’t like is evil, which like our own home grown Gun control freaks preach. Ignorant from birth of personnel freedoms; supposedly we have in this country and which are being eroded away by the Politicians, Educators, and People like Soros and Bloomberg who manipulate people either for enrichment or twisted power issues, so we cannot nor will not think nor act as Individuals but as a team so only team leader gets credit,
    Individualist today usually become branded as unacceptable by society in general, as supposed leaders hate the Competition and enlightenment that they are inconsequential in the Universe.

  24. I keep hearing that Europe will die Soon ™ for like 15 years.
    I keep hearing that US financial system will flop and US dollar will bite the dust for same 15 years and from same pundits.

    I am afraid that I’ll hear it all the way to the point when docs will sternly discourage me from munching popcorn.

    • I love history. Europe isn’t going to die. It’s just going to change management. It’s the way of history. A caliphate? Possible. But i believe that if the US doesn’t step up to the plate, and I’m hoping they don’t, then the Russians will and Europe will be a protectarate of Russia.

      As for the dollar. We’ve gone thru ups and downs before. Keep debt free. Have paid for property and keep a few essentials and king cash stashed and a family can get buy.

      • I’d say youve nailed it here jwm.
        We, the US, don’t have the colonial chops to manage something as fractious as Europe. Better to let the Russians have it, and negotiate with them. The Russians aren’t opposed to actually ruling once they have power. We like to lead, but not to rule.

        One could argue this basic American misunderstanding about other peoples, and the relative difficulty of ruling them is manifest in our middle eastern adventures: places like Iraq and Syria, and the people who populate them are not like us, and cannot be lead to effective governance, they must be ruled, or much violence and chaos ensues. Eventually the mess would settle, but perhaps into something worse than the strong man we took down.

        There is merit in giving over Europe to the Russians, it would make them responsible for dealing with the problem of Islam, which I think they are better suited to than us, and it will likely bankrupt them, again. Plus, it would demonstrate for the Europeans that we really are awfully nice and that in any case we are better to serve than the Russians.

  25. Richard H – Yes, my message was a little harsh, but, having read your response, I am reassured that it was entirely appropriate. You, like so many global warming, climate change, environmental radicals, whatever they call themselves, wrap yourself in “proven” science without offering a single actual fact. In fact, science is rarely “settled” and an argument from that is not an argument at all. You don’t even have the computer models the climate extremists offer, you just mention Darwin, as if he were a good example of a scientist. Yes, he’s very famous and his theory is taught virtually everywhere, but you evidently haven’t been keeping up with recent revelations about his personal life, motivations (primarily to explain away God), and methods, or never even heard of the “missing link” problem, which even he said needing solving before his theory was “proven.”

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