“If Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms are truly invested in their claim, then they should do what Magpul did,” TTAG commentator Slovko writes under John Boch’s editorial Can Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms be Trusted for the Long Haul? “The should pledge to leave the state should the bill pass. Anything short of that and I think they’re just blowing smoke up our collective backsides.”

Right answer? Because, let’s face it, if the bill passes both brands are toast amongst The People of the Gun. Which they may be in any case. So . . . maybe they should issue a new statement fully admitting their knowledge of, and complicity in, the passage of SB-1657 in the Illinois House Senate. And donate the equivalent amount they donated to anti-gun pols to pro gun rights groups. Yes?

80 Responses to CapArms Question of the Day: Should Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms Pledge to Leave the State if Illinois Passes Gun Dealer Licensing Law?

  1. Yes, and offer relocation for all of the affected employees.

    Oh, and free magazines (like 4 or 5 for each firearm) for SA owners as a “Sorry I was a dickhead” bouquet.

    • If they moved to iowa they might not even have to. Google maps tells me they are both right on the boarder near davenport anyway.

        • That’s exactly right but one place they belong is California so they can rot and fall off in the ocean with the rest of that worthless pile of S##T

      • Clinton Iowa is just over the river from Illinois, and a little south of Davenport,,, BOTH company’s MUST do something drastic, DOING and not just mouthing a few platitudes to gun owners for selling them out. Magpul wasn’t a traitor, they told State of Colorado IF you go down that road, we won’t be here. Guess What? At a high point, receiving a huge contract from US military and needing to expand; they did into two other gun friendly states. Gun Owners- the ISSUE has NO middle ground,, you CANNOT negotiate with the anti-gun crowd where it is no guns or nothing. JAHO from gun owner who VOTES .. davzway

    • Screw relocation. They made the mess why move them so they can screw up another state. Ask Cali boarder states how it’s working out for them. They vote to enact the same crap that has ruined the state they are fleeing from.

      • They should stay right where they’re at and ask the legislature to remove their exemption from the law.

        • Yeah, I trust their first action, not the follow up. When they got the carve out that was a honest action signaling their intentions. Everything else has been a reaction to PR blow back and cannot be trusted one way or the other.

      • People, like myself, that have left California, have done so because we did not have any representation in the government there. It was not because we screwed it up and then fled the scene. An American can only take so much oppression and governmental abuse and then they do what they must to restore a semblance of freedom. Texas accepted me and my guns with open arms, they now reap the rewards of my retirement income.

        • ^^this. I vote conservative, sign petitions, donate money to pro gun groups. nothing changes. Short of an armed insurrection, never will. Newsom is a shoe in and that will be the nail in the coffin of California. I’m out in 2 years. Taking my modest business, my guns and money with me.

          Idaho, Arizona or Texas, here I come. I promise to leave any taint of liberalism at the border. I won’t even admit that I moved from here..

        • @ Coffee Addict

          I wouldn’t hedge on Arizona staying red for long. The blue virus is spreading out of Tucson, the PHX megaplex is turning purple fast. It won’t be long until AZ is another slightly less liberal desert suburb of California.

          Just look across the border at NV to see how it happens. Slowly, and insidiously.

    • HAHA… I love it! At this point, however, it really doesn’t matter to me what SA or Rock River do or say. Fact is, they screwed the pooch and there aint no taking that back!!

  2. Can’t unburn a piece of burnt toast. To regain integrity, executive staff needs to get bumped with Reese & Larson (probably of few others) completely exit with no possibility of making any future earnings or profits with these brands. Anybody say Pariahs?

    Maybe sell off and make truly employee owned and let them ‘Defend The Legacy’.

    • I agree, the only chance they have as far as I can tell is to completely change management and dedicate themselves to pro 2A causes nationwide. I am not sure even that will be enough, though.

    • You can scrape it brown though. Let them throw money our way but in the long run who cares. I won’t be purchasing any of their guns anymore anyways.

  3. I am torn over the “punishment = leave the state” idea. On the one hand , deprive the state of revenue: I’m OK with that.
    On the other hand, the hoplophope’s win by driving more gun companies/ammo/dealers out of their territory. Like a virus, anti-gun sentiment, it grows one step at a time.

    • Given the slow-motion disaster that the state is becoming, I’d say the true punishment is making them stay in Illinois.

      I say that as someone who spent the first 20 years of my life in Illinois and who has deep family roots there. It’s a disgrace how poorly the state is managed, and it depresses me deeply whenever I visit home to see how much of a dead-end most of the state has become.

  4. No. The Anti’s win if the drive businesses out of the state.

    I am willing to give them a 2nd chance, but getting into (and staying in) the fight is proof of their commitment. Leaving is cowardly.

  5. At this point, who cares? I traded away my one XDM (that I didnt love, by any means) and will NEVER buy anything else from these turds again. As far as im concerned, they are already out of business. RRA was always over-priced, without a single 5.56 offering with a 1:7 twist barrel…I’ve always been a Stag Arms guy anyhow. They beat them in quality, price and you can customize the hell out of your rifle before it ever leaves the factory, lifetime warranty and free barrel replacement for life…didn’t see any of that from RRA for 25-30% higher prices.
    Springfield can just suck it. The “checkering” or whatever they call those cheesegrater serrations in the grip are a horrid design and their “match” barrels are a far cry from the beauties that H&K or Walther ship with. Their XDs isn’t even made by the same croation co. that makes the rest of the crap.
    Bottom line is that there are much better options out there for either companies type of product…so their is no need for anyone to continue to support these companies in any way.

      • Why wouldn’t I? It’s better than buying Troy or Hexmag. And, actually…aside from what I have at the present time, I don’t see any magpul purchases in my future. I’m a big ASC mag guy. Call me silly, I still like my mags metal and ASC makes really good stuff.

      • Yep. MAGPUL fought until then end. Then they had a fire sale for CO residents before the law changed. Then they left for a state that they can sell ALL their products in.

    • My XDS.45 is leaving, and will be replaced with a Kahr CM45. I think that if everyone who owns a Springfield product sells it, that’s costing Springfield new gun sales, which stings ON TOP of the boycott.

  6. Let’s face it, they screwed the mom and pop gun stores and crapped on the gun owners of Illinois. Leaving only allows them to continue on. They still come out ahead. The only thing left to do is destroy them financially by not buying their tainted crap. I sold my SA crap yesterday.

  7. Illinois legislators (by that I mean Chicago legislators) would love to claim this as a victory. “See, when we pass more gun control laws we drive the evil out of the state! WE NEED MORE!!!” Piss on that. I think they should stay if nothing else than as a big F.U. More importantly what about all the people who will lose their jobs? These people will be the only ones who will lose. I saw the comment about helping them move, but why should they have to uproot themselves and their family. I left that corruption filled dump by choice, but how many of you would want to be forced to make that choice?

  8. Yes…a good start would be to donate the same amount of money to Pro-gun groups……and pro gun politicians…but they would really have to donate 2X that amount to reverse the actual damage.

    The sent me an email about their fight to stop this bill…that was Yesterday….I replied that perhaps they should have thought about that before they supported it in the first place…..

  9. Wait…So SA and RRA helped create this mess, but instead of staying and making amends, you want them to leave and all is forgiven? They should stay and deal with the consequences. If they commit serious resources to fight the bill AND it is killed, THEN let them move out if they wish. As far as I remember Magpul were frustrated with the political climate and new anti-gun laws, but they didn’t help to pass any of them. They left in protest. If you apply the same logic to SA and RRA, you want them to leave in protest of….their own actions?

  10. I live in this horrible state. The gun companies that shall NOT be named are dead to me. Thank you TTAG for shining a spotlight on the evil that men do. Even if Rauner vetoes this evil bill I will never say a good word about the Coatian importer(I honestly have never seen an AR from those other guys).

  11. If they moved to iowa they might not even have to. Google maps tells me they are both right on the boarder near davenport anyway.

  12. Great points. If they don’t do something drastic, their brands will fail in the marketplace – they are in trouble already.

  13. What value does a “pledge” have from companies that have demonstrated that they are ignorant and/or dishonest?

    There have to be two, verifiable steps:

    a) fight passage of the bill.

    b) if that fails, leave the state. Not “pledge to” but actually leave.

    All the arguments about how leaving would be “reward” the anti-gun Chicago politicians are equivalent to saying that killing terrorists increases their recruiting. Illinois is rapidly heading to Detroit bankruptcy status [right now their bonds are rated at just above junk-bond status, and on the way down], and despite all their posturing, they desperately need every penny of revenue they can scrape up. And if they think the Feds are going to bail them out, don’t make me laugh.

  14. That’s almost like rats jumping off a ship that caused to sink in the first place. Really I think both owners of both those companies are CEOs should be either fired or Company ownership should change hands to someone that is a gun enthusiast and not a bean counter that only concerns themselves with profit.

    • Hot topic(s), and high response rates, benefits his bottom line with click counts. Shrewd?

  15. who cares? I don’t wanna buy their products, so I certainly don’t care. I’m just glad I’ve been able to forgive Ruger, I actually do wanna buy their products. Too bad they don’t make a pump shotty

  16. I wouldn’t piss on SAI and RRA if they were on fire. They caused this mess in the first place. Notice that ArmaLite and DSA weren’t part of the IFMA? SAI and RRA were just looking out for themselves and to hell with everyone, gun owners included, else was their philosophy. Now they can reap what they sowed.

  17. They can’t regain my trust until the individuals involved in leadership and IFMA are all replaced. Pulling out of IFMA is just a stunt when the Springfield CEO is a director of IFMA

  18. I don’t know why they haven’t already. Though I would feel bad for the great employees that have there. Springfield’s customer service is top notch. Gracie is just one of many that I’ve spoken with who is a great person to work with.

  19. You are really hung up on this aren’t you?

    They should have left long ago. It is foolish for any firearms company to remain in a rabidly anti-gun state because they will eventually be forced to do a Springfield. I think that will be the lesson for the industry when tbe fanatics drive Springfield out of business.

    • Exactly. The silver lining here is that this might serve to wake up some other companies who are making guns in anti-2A states. That’s an unsustainable business model – eventually, you’re either going to be regulated out of business, or extorted by the anti-gun politicians to not be. Either way, you’re screwed, so best to move your business to a friendlier environment.

      The time to do it is before it’s a crisis, like the way that Henry opened a second factory in Wisconsin. Now they can slowly move product lines out of New Jersey, if they so desire.

      • Or Big Green did when they set up a plant in Huntsville, Alabama. It appears that the plant in Ilion, NY is going to go bye-bye.

      • Or as Big Green did when they set up a plant in Huntsville, Alabama. It appears that the plant in Ilion, NY is going to go bye-bye.

  20. Yes, they should leave Illinois. And go straight to hell. Don’t curse Iowa with these traitors.

    FOAD, SA and RRA!

  21. You whiners fly on Boeing aircraft? The idiots that run Boeing CHOSE to leave Seattle in order to plant their new NQ in Chicago. This at a time when every smart corp was LEAVING the cesspool that is Chicago/Ill. Find ANY logic in that? Chicago the world hub of manufacturing, aviation, anything other than crime and demtards>

    Punish Boeing?

  22. Wow, if only gun owners (even those in Illinois) cared half as much about the ongoing activities of their established gun-enemies. We can’t budge a damn coffee shop’s stance on the issues, but are perfectly willing to destroy our own industry figures via boycott at the drop of a hat, and somehow at the same time demand no results whatsoever from our elected representatives besides no new infringements (for now)

    Is Springfield (or any gun company) crazy enough to fund anti-gun efforts for the foreseeable future after this outcry? Hell, no. Is there anything they can realistically do to ‘undo’ the harm they’ve done? Hell, no. Would we rather a multi-million dollar industry player overwhelmingly favorable and useful to gun owners (and would be gun owners) stay around for the time being? Hell, yes. The only correct response is to watch Springfield like a hawk for the time being, like a valuable employee who gets caught screwing up, and see if it continues or was an aberration. The ball is out of Springfield’s hands at this point, and is in those of the legislature; things can still work out to ‘no harm,’ but it isn’t really SA’s decision to make any longer.

    I also can’t help noticing the hypocrisy among many of the figures lamenting Springfield here; their support of anti-gun laws and politicians over the last few years pales in comparison to our “best friend of the NRA” over in the White House. Yeah, he criticized the SAFE Act…after it was passed…after he’d donated to its leading figures in the NY legislature and Governor’s mansion…

    • Will another gun company sell us off again? Umm, Im not that old but I remember Bill Ruger and the S&W Hillary Hole happening in my lifetime.

  23. I think I’m gonna go buy a saint, and a range officer 1911 if the bill is defeated, just to piss some of you guys off. back to the magpul thing, yes they left colorado in protest, but they also didn’t do a damn thing to fight the mag ban, just as bad. as was said before, I prefer steel mags, but can still get magpul standard mags, in colorado, over the counter, in a lgs, but I don’t generally buy them because they are plastic, but the roller mags are awful tempting.

    • Whether you like Magpul or not is your choice but I think you’re wrong about them not fighting the Colorado law. I remember reading about them supporting lobby efforts, addressing the State legislature and on numerous occasions publicly stating that they would relocate out of the State taking the 85+ million in tax revenue with them. They also disclosed an estimated tax lose and jobs killed from their in State suppliers if they moved. Colorado legislature thought they would make it up from the new taxes generated from marijuana sales so they didn’t care. Of course that’s not working out quite the way they thought it would.

      Short of beating the State legislators about the head with a stick I’m not sure how much more they could have done.

  24. I’m in the market for another .308 rifle and I just crossed SA off the list. Too bad because their M1A looked pretty good. But I’m not giving them a dime.
    Supporting loud anti gun pols for YEARS is unforgivable.

  25. Yes, and I think that they should follow Barrett and no departments which are in regulated territories get a carve out. If they’re on the border the move decision is obvious to me. This should have been their stake from the beginning, if you deprive the citizens of this state of their rights we’ll deprive you of the income; Then again with the exodus that has been happening here they may not care.

  26. What’s the difference between a lightbulb and SA/RRA?

    You can unscrew a lightbulb. They should not relocate, they should stay and demand the exemption is removed from themselves.

  27. No, dammit, they might go nuts again and spread anti-gun laws elsewhere. They should keep themselves contained in there.

  28. No publicly traded company can be trusted.

    The incentive is to make bad decisions that look good in the near term and golden parachute away from the company’s legacy.

    It doesn’t work as well for gun companies because we watch them so closely, and beaurocrats that don’t actually know the culture enter this industry totally unprepared for the scrutiny.

    It’s hard enough to know what other human beings are thinking, let alone PR reps.

  29. I seem to remember SA threatening to move to Iowa or elsewhere over a prior gun bill in IL. I’m thinking it was over mag restrictions similar to CO maybe? Anyone else recall that?

  30. “So . . . maybe they should issue a new statement fully admitting their knowledge of, and complicity in, the passage of SB-1657 in the Illinois House Senate.”

    What exactly is the upside of doing that for SA and RRA? People who already think they’ve been lying will just have that confirmed. Those people who are inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt would no longer have any reason to continue doing so, since they would be admitting that they’ve been lying.

    They’re not going to get very many brownie points for honesty this late in the game. Who is going to say “Those scumbags sold my rights down the river and baldly lied about it for weeks, but now that they’ve come clean, I respect their honesty and all is forgiven”? People don’t work like that.

  31. They’ll have still screwed Illinois.

    If the bill is defeated, they should still pledge to leave Illinois.

    If the bill passes, nothing will save them.

  32. No. They should stay and work to repeal the law, and fight for gun rights in illinois. I’m sick to death of this running and hiding in free states shit. It’s time we go on the offensive and take back our rights. It worked in Wisconsin. 10 years ago it was pretty anti gun there and now its one of the best in the country and will probably get constitutional carry soon.

  33. 100% percent agree that they should follow Magpul’s lead on this. I had posted that shortly after this came out. Personally, I used to live in CA and leaving there in 2006 was one of the happiest days in my life.

  34. Being an old timer, I have learned long ago that “you can’t fix stupid”. Just let the two companies go under (in due time) and let better companies or upstarts take their place.

    • That’s the best advice I’ve seen so far on this issue. There are enough honest manufacturers that letting these two go under won’t hurt the industry. It will hurt Illinois, and unfortunately, their employees. But as an example to the rest of the industry, no better outcome than being denounced by the people and dying from loss of business.

  35. Unless and until these companies are sold and moved to a free state and under new management, they are dead to me. Then and only then will I consider buying any of their products again.

  36. As an FFL in Georgia, I wrote both companies to inform them of my intent to boycott their products in my shop. I will also go one further and no longer process transfers for their firearms. What they did was a betrayal to gun owners. There is no coming back from that. Besides, there are many other manufactures out there making firearms that are superior to them and more innovative so they can rot.

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