I give VODA INC credit for speed, surprise and violet of shirt. OK, yes, I’m colorblind; I’ve been informed that his shirt is blue. But in this business, you don’t cut funny. Or, let’s face it, carry Israeli style. As Dan pointed out in a recent Daily Digest, that sh!t can get you killed. I’m also wondering why you’d use an Inside-the-Waistband holster with a cover garment. An Outside-the-Waistband holster — outside the tucked-in undershirt — makes access a whole lot easier. Still, I love the sound of mega-multiple press checks in the morning. It sounds like . . . victory.

35 Responses to Empty Chamber Music? Just Thought I’d Leave This Here

  1. yeah if you carry without one in the chamber, you really need to overcome that fear and chamber a round. it WILL save your life.

  2. Unfortunately the vast majority of Israeli carriers don’t practice that draw at all, let alone enough to be proficient at it. That said, it’s still a lot better than not carrying at all and again, I’ve only ever heard of one incident since the dawn of time where someone actually came to harm because of IC, so, I don’t know, maybe lighten up a little?

    BTW, I saw a video a few years ago that had a number of guys showing that kind of proficiency only with live fire, not an unloaded weapon. It can be done.

    • Well sometimes you only have one hand available. That split second to chamber a round could be costly. What if there is a fail to feed?
      Those are my main three reasons to carry with a round in the chamber.

      • There are plenty of reasons against condition 3. If we ever have a Bill of Tactical Advantages I’m sure there will be an amendment concerning the practice. But since we only have a Bill of Rights, people are free to carry however they see fit. If someone determines that the risk of a negligent discharge is greater than the risk of being harmed by keeping the chamber empty that is their prerogative. I still want them in the room when someone yells ‘Alahu Ahkbar’.

  3. I saw VODA and my brain thought VDMA, or whatever crappy company Paul T. McCain runs. I opted not to watch at first.

  4. The Russians actually developed a holster specifically first Israeli carry for the makarov. You pushed the gun straight down and as it cleared the holster it racked the slide and chambered a round. It was called the EFA-2 if I remember correctly.

    • I had a conversation with an MP while I was stationed in Germany and he showed me their technique. They were required to carry their M1911 (it was 1982) in condition 3. They trained to pull slightly from the holster, twist the pistol 90 degrees, then force it back into the holster to chamber a round before completing the draw. He showed me the move and it seemed to work, but I don’t believe I would ever bet my life on not short-stroking the slide in the heat of battle.

      You will NEVER find me on the street, armed, without one in the chamber and the pistol in condition to fire as soon as it clears Kydex.

      • Oh believe me I am not advocating for this style of carry. Anything that ads extra to draw point (deactivate safety for some pistols) boom is just adding extra ways to screw something up. Also one of the downfalls of this holster is that it’s a longer draw stroke which means more time for someone to jam your draw. In a close encounter swinging your arm up as opposed to bending the elbow and punching the weapon out is a great way to have someone grab your gun hand and jam up your presentation. And the EFA-2 because of pushing the pistol straight down meant that you would almost have bend the elbow much further. However for people who simply have to carry condition 3 it does allow them with a makarov mind you to push straight down which racks the slide , cocks the hammer, and apparently if I am watching this correctly deactivates the safety. Not idealike but for a glock I could see some people being more comfortable with it especially for OWB.

  5. All of that precise movement gets a bit more complicated when you have confined space, just one usable arm, slippery hands, etc.

    I like simplicity. Moving my finger is a whole lot easier than flailing around using both arms.

    • All of that precise movement gets a bit more complicated when you have just been ambushed and are experiencing a massive adrenaline dump.

  6. On one of my many trips to Jerusalem, I was walking on the street, and happened to see some soldiers in the back of a jeep playing tug-of-war with a rifle. Each soldier had his hands on the weapon sideways, and the muzzle was pointed out of the back of the jeep in my direction. I watched the muzzle swing back and forth with me in the line of fire once or twice before I regained my composure and loudly said “Shalom!” to get their attention. They saw me, and realized that I could get them in serious trouble, so they waved and smiled, and I waved and smiled back. I was very thankful for Israeli carry that day.

    The point of this story is that the Israeli Defense Forces are largely populated by kids fresh out of high school. The Israelis have decided that it’s easier to teach a kid to chamber a round under stress than to be 100% safe at all times. That does not mean that Israeli carry is right for everybody, but it seems to be working for the IDF. If it wasn’t working, they would abandon it in accordance with their typical combat efficiency.

  7. Empty chamber carry is a valid way to every day carry a pistol
    It all depends on where you draw the line between safe administrative gun handling and readiness for action
    It takes me 2 seconds longer to draw and rack versus draw and thumb safety
    It does take two hands instead of only one
    I accept that
    “Glock leg” is real thing and mostly happens when handling a gun
    Mine cannot discharge with an empty chamber
    Yet I have a gun that can be brought into action in 3 seconds instead of one second
    One thing I see ignored is that most people seem to train for a single atacker
    I will often set up 3 targets at slightly different distances and practice drawing, racking and point shooting at all 3

    • “Glock leg” is real thing and mostly happens when handling a gun”

      You would think with all the “Glock leg” accusations, there would be a recurring segment on TTAG displaying this.

      And if it does happen, it is not “mostly” when handling the gun. Try “always”.

    • I am not, never was, and never expect to be an “Operator”, but I did take a beginner tactical pistol class taught by an official, well-seasoned Operator, a retired Navy SEAL. At the end of the 8 hour course, not one second of which even considered the idea of condition 3 carry, I was able to draw from concealment and put two rounds center of mass (at 7 yards), check for additional threats and re-holster in 1.85 seconds.

      Compare that to your 2 seconds just to get your pistol ready to fire, much less get a shot on target, if the BG gives you the freedom to take that long and use both hands. Consider the Tueller drill. From 21 feet the BG could be all over your ass while you are still trying to rack the slide.

      YMMV.

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