CapArms Question of the Day: Fake Cops! It Should Have Been a Defensive Gun Use?

kfor.com reports that a Choctaw, Oklahoma a resident and his wife “told police that three men, who claimed to be police officers, came to the door and asked if they had any guns in the home.” Well that’s a fine how-do-you-do. “When the man said yes, the alleged suspects forced their way into the home and ordered the couple to show them where the guns were located.”

I don’t think this one qualifies as “It Should Have Been A Defensive Gun Use.” When three armed men show up at your door, the chances of a successful armed defense are lower than a snake’s belly. Then again . . .

Who’s to say the home invaders aren’t going to assassinate you and your family In Cold Blood? What would you do in this situation?

[NB: I’d caution anyone who sees police at the door to make sure they’re cops, but how do you do that, exactly? Ask for ID before opening the door? Yell at them through a closed door and call the station for confirmation? I guess . . .]

comments

  1. avatar Shire-man says:

    Don’t talk to anyone at your door. Problem solved. If they’re real cops they’ll come back with a warrant. If they’re criminals and the kick the door down do what you must. If it’s UPS they’ll leave the box and go. People peddling their god will jam a flyer in the door and leave. Get your Girl Scout cookies from a sales table somewhere. Ed McMahon is dead.

    No good comes from talking to people at your door.

    1. avatar Ricky Spanish says:

      I like the cut of your jib.

    2. avatar Nigel the expat says:

      If they’re real cops they’ll come back with a warrant.

      ^ That. Right there.

      1. avatar Renner says:

        They will come back with a warrant, a bunch of their buddies, guns drawn, and kick your door in. Aside from a piece of paper they won’t let you read first, how again do you tell the difference?

        1. avatar Nigel the expat says:

          All the keystone wagons. If the badguys have mocked up 10 Explorers in full full colors and bars their taking what they want anyway 🙂

        2. avatar maxi says:

          You will know that they might have been legit cops when you find a search warrant and some convincing police badges at their bodies. Too bad that no knock warrants are suicide missions because you are perfectly allowed to shoot every doorkicker at sight, no matter what they wear.
          If they don’t come to your door, show a badge, a warrant and let you call the station to verify it’s not your problem if they eat lead. That’s the only way you can know that they are legit police officers, and if they don’t like your constitutional rights you did your community a service with ending them.
          Is that legal from the constitutional side of things? Absolutely! Are judges people that are known to uphold the constitution? Meh, you might get in trouble, could as well roll a dice, that’s as reliable as the juducial system. And then finally are you able to overpower some unfriendly guys who kick your door in, might they yell police at you or not? That’s up to you. Probably not. But having armed guys kicking in your dor doesn’t leave you with a whole lot of options, which is why that shouldn’t be a thing in a country where people do have certain rights in the first place…

        3. avatar Pat says:

          The percentage of times that a demand for a warrant results in them kicking their door down when they get one is less than 1%.
          I advise watching less TV.

    3. avatar Warren says:

      The older I get, the more this kind of talk appeals to me.

      1. avatar ANONNYMOUS says:

        @Warren,

        Ok, you made laugh, that = (making me laugh), usually takes/employs an act of congress. Congratulations and, Thank You. 😉

    4. avatar JK in TX says:

      “An unopened door is a happy door”
      “what if it’s good news?”
      “this is London..it’s not someone with cake, unless that cake is made with dog poo and knives!”

    5. avatar Robby says:

      Right On!

    6. avatar Hannibal says:

      You do know that cops sometimes have things to talk about that don’t involve you being implicated in a crime?

      The prowler that was seen the night before? The missing 15 year that, thanks to your self-interested ignorance, will continue being missing because you didn’t bother to talk through the door to the police and tell them that you saw her getting into a red van the day before?

      Welp, society deserves what it gets.

      1. avatar Ben says:

        If it’s that important, they can get a warrant and/or they can wait for my lawyer. Or they can guarantee that I won’t be brought into the hassle. Of course, that guarantee is worthless… But anything you say will be held against you. Not MAY BE. WILL BE. That’s enough for me.

      2. avatar Pat says:

        Seriously your constructing a strawman to imply someone here is responsible for a kidnapping is absurd. Constructing such an example doesn’t help your argument. The fact is there is a LOT of police abuse around the issue of firearms and indeed a lot of police ignorance.

        The left wants the US to emulate Australia on firearms. if you crack your door there, even with chain attached, and they see any firearm they can come right in without a warrant — and it is admissible.

        And there is no telling what a left judge, including for example an Obama or Clinton federal judge will do anymore when it comes to firearms, even legal ones.

        I suggest you look on youtube where you can see hundreds if incidents where police make false statements as to your rights

        1. avatar Joe3 says:

          He wasn’t implying the prev poster was responsible for a kidnapping; he was saying the PD were looking for info in a missing teen, had he seen anything suspicious etc.

          My suggestion is all law abiding people get to know their local LEOs especially Sgts and COs.

          If someone knocks on your door saying they are cops, ask them who their Sgt/CO is.

          Or call the station to verify.

      3. avatar Jeff K says:

        Never talk thru a door, it tells them where to shoot.

      4. avatar Bob says:

        Society does not deserve thugs in masks kicking down random doors –
        http://www.fox5dc.com/news/local-news/250517534-story?1493149761222
        Incompetent, criminal, arrogant, over militarized police have managed to erode the public’s confidence in law-enforcement. A daily litany of systemic violations of the public’s trust and of the law by ‘a few bad apples’ is found at – https://www.policemisconduct.net/.
        Public distrust is a result of law enforcement’s lack of accountability and refusal to acknowledge that there is ever anything wrong with what happens on the other side of the “thin blue line”.
        Rule #1 – When you find your self in a hole, stop digging.

    7. avatar Charlie says:

      I’ll answer the door if I’m expecting someone or if a glance out the window shows a car belonging to someone I’d like to see. But not otherwise. Nope. In my experience, if a stranger knocks at the door, the best case scenario is mild annoyance at having tell whoever it is to please go away. Best case…

      Now if that glance out the window shows what appears to be a legit LEO vehicle, there might be some communication through the door to verify identity and the purpose of this visit.

  2. avatar Fafhrd of Lankhmar says:

    Real cops will wait while you call 911 to verify that they are real, and they will have a warrant. Otherwise, yes they get shot.

    1. avatar Doc Samson says:

      Fafhrd? Where’s the Grey Pos… er, Mouser?

      1. avatar The Gray Poseur says:

        The Gray Poseur has NEVER talked of shooting cops. Never.

  3. avatar Geoff PR says:

    Call 911 and ask the dispatcher if they are for real…

  4. avatar Ed Rogers says:

    Just a reminder, put 3 inch screws in your door latch strike plates. Makes it incredibly difficult to kick in!

    1. avatar Ing says:

      Yep. And those brass plates that wrap around the latch and sit under the knob and deadbolt not only look really pretty on your door, they also greatly increase its strength where it matters most.

      1. avatar Robb says:

        Wut?

        Got a link?

        1. avatar Sian says:

          This is a good kit. https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00E9ZGWNQ

          Your lock is less likely to fail in a forced entry than your jamb and frame. This shores that up.

    2. avatar IdahoPete says:

      Buy and install an outer security “screen” door – like one of these:
      https://www.larsondoors.com/storm-doors/security-storm-doors

      If you want to talk to whoever is knocking. THEN call 911 if yu have any questions.

      1. avatar JK says:

        I have one. Got it when my wife wanted me to put in a mostly glass front door. Awful hard to kick in a forward opening door too

  5. avatar Norincojay says:

    It’s just me, but whenever I’m asked if I have guns in the home I say no. That would include “cops” at the door. I’d say no? Why? If the why is followed up with something good I’d change my story. I don’t have any issue lying to cops. I don’t care.

    1. avatar Nigel the expat says:

      When my step-father passed away several years go the local PD asked me that same question. The answer was no, and no you may not search the premises. It is none of their business what step-dad has in his safe, closet, etc., unless and until they have probable cause to believe foul play was involved. Then, get a warrant.

    2. avatar JK in TX says:

      They may have barged in if he said no as well. Then they are sure there will be no resistance.

      1. avatar Pat says:

        They are way way more likely to barge in or come back with a warrant if you say yes. The answer to “do you have a gun in your home” is always: “No.”

        1. avatar The Gray Poseur says:

          I disagree. The best answer is no answer. Just narrow my eyes and close the door.

  6. avatar Joe R. says:

    Raise 4 fingers and play thru.

    If you’re not expecting cops, and you can’t think of any reason why cops would come to your door, tell the people at your door that you’re a cop, and that you are on the phone with your sergeant.

    See where the rabbit hole goes.

    1. avatar FedUp says:

      If they’re real cops, they might just arrest you for impersonating.

    2. avatar Nigel the expat says:

      Yeah, that’ll get you in cuffs here if they end up being real cops.

      Foul, 5 yard penalty. 😉

  7. avatar Chris T in KY says:

    Never never never, open your door for the police unless they have a warrant. Period. Plain clothes cops, never. A uniform with a police car, still do not open the door.
    I like the police. They are necessary. But too many of them don’t know the laws they are enforcing. I remember very well when Florida had a serious problem with bad guys in police uniforms. Florida banned civilians wearing cop uniforms even for Halloween.

    An honest cop will have no problem showing you his or her ID card even if they are wearing a police uniform.

    1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      “An honest cop will have no problem showing you his or her ID card …”

      Which means absolutely nothing. First of all, 99% of people have no idea what an actual police officer’s identification card is supposed to look like. Second of all, even if someone did, it would be exceedingly easy to make a forgery. Any violent home invader who goes through the trouble to don a police costume and fake badge is fully capable of forging an identification card to go with the costume and fake badge.

      1. avatar Hannibal says:

        While I think a call the the officer’s station or dispatch office is a perfectly good idea, no, fake cops aren’t going to forge a realistic ID in this kind of situation. First of all, almost every impersonation with intent to rob involves someone just putting a badge around their neck instead of using a uniform (ever seen the Wire episode where a gangbanger puts on an ill-fitting suit and play badge? It’s like that). In the few cases where they use a uniform, it won’t be a good one. They’re not thinking ahead to things like having a credentials card.

        But yeah, calling the department works just as well.

  8. avatar Mr.Savage says:

    simple, if you know me and your welcome in my home the door is likely unlocked, where I am on the other side with a pistol on my hip regardless, if I don’t recognise you, you will be peering down the business end of a .45, or if I made it to another room, a 12ga. when proper i.d. is shown and you are verified we can talk, unless your already bleeding out.

  9. avatar uncommon_sense says:

    I would barricade myself inside and tell the alleged police officers at the door to wait outside while I call dispatch and verify that they are legitimate. There really is no other way to know if they are truly police officers … unless you personally know all the local, county, and state cops that could ever come calling.

  10. avatar Indy Jones says:

    These comments give me hope that all is not lost. I hope and pray there are many more like us around. I sometimes watch the videos of the illegal door to door searches during the Boston Marathon bombing and shudder at what they future holds for our sovereign rights in this country when ppl are so willing to not only willingly give up their rights and, what’s worse, to justify their actions under the guise of “keeping me safe”. You hear that phrase a lot among the sheep, and it’s what leads to incidents like those in this article

  11. avatar Buzz Word says:

    Fake cop incidents are common here in Wisconsin as are the bad outcomes for the victims of fake cops. Pay heed to the comments above.. fake cops are here to stay!

  12. avatar former water walker says:

    I always answer the door(unless it’s JW’s in which case I ignore them) with a gun in my pocket. Criminals break in when you don’t answer. No cops aren’t your friend but I know some of local Barney Fife’s. YMMV…

  13. avatar Ralph says:

    “make sure they’re cops, but how do you do that, exactly?”

    Easy. If they didn’t shoot your pet Spaniel or flash-bang your infant child, they aren’t cops.

  14. avatar Cadeyrn says:

    Let’s face it: the real police pretty much already know whether you have guns in that house if you’ve been there for any real length of time and own it in your real name.

    So, there is absolutely no legitimate reason why someone would be standing in front of your house asking whether you have guns.

    I think the proper response is “Only one way to find out.”

    Also, I have a friend whose welcome mat doesn’t say “Welcome.” It says “Go away.” The one inside his door says “Come back with a warrant.” So there is someone out there making the perfect Fourth of July gift for gun owners.

  15. avatar Dan says:

    The issue is doors that are FAR TOO EASY to be breached. Harden all of the entryways to your home.
    Make it as difficult as possible for someone to enter be it bad guy or a bad guy pinned to a badge. You
    can’t stop them but you CAN slow them down enough to give you time. And time equals options….and
    the ability to arm yourself properly for what may be a life or death situation. It’s not cheap to install solid
    core doors PLUS the heavy metal security doors. And quality hardware with 4 to 6″ screws costs also
    but it could be the difference between living and dying. You can NEVER be sure if a “raid” is fake and
    a robbery, if it’s a bunch of keystone cops who can’t read a map, the warrant OR your address numbers
    or if its a “legit” raid ( meaning a warrant signed by a judge) till it’s too late. So be prepared.
    Ideally you will also have web cams set up and ALL video streamed off site to the cloud…..so evidence
    is BEYOND the grubby paws of lying bastards pinned to badges.

  16. Just what do the cops wear when they come knocking on your door? If I want to move to your neighborhood, acquire firearms and carry out home invasions dressed as a cop, what do I need? Can I buy a white T-shirt and a package of printer transfers, and print “POLICE” on the back? How about Mossy Oak shirt and pants?

    I am amazed that police in areas full of heavily armed homeowners are not strict about uniform discipline.

    The police should be nasty about people passing themselves off as cops. It is not just home invasions. Theodore Bundy claimed to be a cop. He never got charged with this, for rather obvious reasons.

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