Springfield and Rock River Illinois Sell-Out: Picking up the Pieces

Springfield Armory

The news of Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms selling Illinois gun dealers and gun owners down the river continues to spread among The People of The Gun. As it should. For those who missed it, we broke the story late Thursday evening.

Springfield Armory, Rock River Arms Trade Opposition to Illinois FFL Licensing Scheme for Carve-Out

The lobbyist for the Illinois Firearms Manufacturers Association (IFMA), Jay Keller, traded that group’s opposition to the bill in exchange for a carve-out, removing Prairie State firearms manufacturers from the licensing requirements.

Two companies provide the bulk of the funding for IFMA: Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms.

A whole lot of gun owners see the deal as a sell-out. And they’re telling their friends.

This wasn’t the first time gun dealer licensing has come up in Illinois. We beat back a similar bill last year. This year, State Senator Don Harmon needed IFMA to end their opposition to his bill. IFMA’s Keller testified in March at the Illinois Senate Judiciary committee of his willingness to consider dropping the lobbying group’s opposition to the bill if his clients were exempted.

As a long-time, dedicated anti-gunner, this wasn’t Senator Harmon’s first legislative rodeo. Like a shrewd negotiator, Harmon happily added a manufacturer and big box retailer carve-out to the bill so he could cobble together the last few votes he needed to get it through the Senate.

Keller dropped IFMA’s opposition, providing cover for a couple of wavering Senators to vote for the bill. Sure enough, the bill passed the Senate by a single vote.

Some might say IFMA’s change of heart might not have made a definitive difference. It might not have, but then again, if Senator Harmon didn’t think it wouldn’t have gotten him that last vote or two he needed, he wouldn’t have offered the deal.

In the end, the timing proved fortuitous to all involved. All except for gun owners and the non-big box store gun dealers who have to live and work in the Land of Lincoln.

The biggest tragedy

Maybe worst of all, passage gives anti-gunners a win they desperately needed. Today, we have nearly one dozen gun control groups working in Illinois. Half of those are national groups out of Washington, D.C., that have set up shop in Springfield hotels.

They’ve come to the heart of flyover country because they know their anti-2A dog won’t hunt back in Washington. They see deep-blue Illinois as a great place to enact more of their gun control schemes. And gun control wins, like this keep the gravy train flowing so they can continue to draw a paycheck and keep on going.

Salt in the wound

Dennis Reese’s statement to TTAG on IFMA’s deal was insulting. He didn’t say, “Hey, we screwed up. We’re pulling out of IFMA and regret that this happened. We want our dealers and our valued customers to know we won’t ever do anything like this again.”

Instead, he said, and I quote:

“…We fully support the Second Amendment and stand by it. The Illinois Manufacturers Association will continue to fight and protect not only manufacturers, but dealers and the gun owner as well.”

His lobbyist will continue to fight and protect dealers and gun owners? It was his lobbyist who stood aside on a bill that rations everyday Illinoisans to nine firearm transfers per year. That’s not fighting to protect gun owners. That’s rolling over and showing your belly while wagging your tail.

If signed into law, the bill his lobbyist declined to oppose will drive many dealers out of business with its onerous and expensive restrictions and requirements. With “support” like that, who needs Everytown?

Blowback

I’ve spoken with a couple of bigger dealers in Illinois in the past 24 hours. Both are were on their way to selling over a quarter million of Springfield product this year. But they’ve already heard from their customers about the IFMA sell-out. One dealer told me he’s pulling Springfield product from his shelves to give his salespeople a break from carping customers.

“So, you’re not buying a bunch of Springfield’s new pistols?” I asked one. “Oh, hell no,” he told me. “I’m not ordering anything Springfield. Frankly, I’m wondering how I’m going to sell my existing inventory.”

Another dealer told me he wished Springfield well. But I didn’t detect a lot of love in his words.

Meanwhile, over at the Rock River booth at the NRA convention, owner Chuck Larson has professed innocence in the matter. He’s told several industry types that he had no contact with IFMA lobbyist Jay Keller and knew nothing of this carve-out. What’s more, Larson seems genuinely appalled by what happened.

Springfield, on the other hand, has gone silent. CEO Dennis Reese hasn’t responded to a request for comment or a further statement beyond the one he released Thursday night.

Ben Franklin once said, “If we do not hang together, we shall surely hang separately.”

If IFMA had stood shoulder-to-shoulder with the NRA-ILA, the Illinois State Rifle Association, Guns Save Life and the National Shooting Sports Foundation – working as a team to oppose this egregious bill – we’d have had a good chance of depriving anti-gunners of a badly needed win.

Instead, we were undercut by a self-serving supposed ally.

Maybe the deal was the result of a lobbyist gone rogue. Perhaps a company thought they could pull a fast one and nobody would notice. There’s no way to know for sure.  Regardless of who did what, the after-effects of this deal and a legislative loss will be felt far beyond Illinois for some time to come.

comments

  1. avatar FedUp says:

    How did the unveiling of the new pistol go?
    Did Springfield get shouted down at their own party?

    Initially I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, but after I thought about Reese’s statement, and now that I’ve seen Larson’s statement, I would have liked to see hecklers run Springfield’s employees right out of Atlanta.

    1. avatar Doktor says:

      The SAINT comes marching home.

      You see once you jump in bed with the marketing types and throw millions at “image” you quickly discover that your rudder fell off long ago and now you’re not sure what you stand for…if anything.

      Never Springfield. Never will.

      1. avatar Garrison Hall says:

        Well, said. “Defending Your Legacy” is obviously just a marketing slogan for Springfield. This says a lot about the people running the company. They must’ve been channeling Bill Ruger. People Of The Gun have long memories. No Springfield guns for me. Never, ever.

      2. avatar Tim says:

        If you sell more than 9 guns per year, you are in the business of selling guns. All businesses are licensed at the state level. Even cosmetologists and lawyers.

        1. avatar TrueBornSonofLiberty says:

          It’s not just selling, genius. It’s transfers. So, buying 5 and selling 4 is the limit. Any combination of buying or selling that exceeds 9 is a crime if you’re not a dealer.

        2. avatar Scoutino says:

          If you apply more than 9 make-ups in a year, you are in cosmetology businesses.

          What if I want to get some real nice (read expensive) gun and in order to spare my family’s budget I decide to sell part of my gun collection?

          How many model airplanes can I buy, sell or trade in one year? Or cameras?

          Wasn’t there big stink couple years ago about so called kitchen table FFLs not realy conducting business for living and just getting wholesale pricing on guns for themselves and their family members?

    2. avatar DDay says:

      I’m not buying a damn thing from Springfield and there is NO EXPIRATION DATE ON THAT.

      Springfield can drop dead, I’ll support gun manufacturers who support me.

      1. avatar Darren P. says:

        I was going to buy the “Saint”, seemed like a.nice rifle, now.they can piss up a rope. My hard earned money is going to be spent at Ruger.

        1. avatar Dave M says:

          I hear you on that Ruger. The plant where that rifle is made revitalized the area n which it is made. I only want American Made firearms like Henry & Ruger. There is too much crap that I don’t have a choice on (can you believe EVERY RV tire is made in China?), I DO have a choice with firearms.

        2. avatar Mark says:

          You should buy a BCM, Daniel Defense, or LWRC. All of these rifles are vastly superior to Ruger.

        3. avatar TrueBornSonofLiberty says:

          And to be fair, those are twice the price of the Ruger.

        4. avatar Jeff K says:

          In your opinion. Some would disagree. (This is in response to Mark)

        5. avatar TrueBornSonofLiberty says:

          Huh? What opinion? It’s a FACT that those brands are twice the price as Ruger. The Ruger is berween $6-700. The LWRC, DD and BCM are ALL over $1300. I just bought a DDM4V11 in January at an unheard of, low price of $1369. Most places, it’s still over $1500.

        6. avatar Jeff K says:

          The response was to Mark about the others being vastly superior, not your comment.

        7. avatar Arandomguy says:

          Might want to rethink Ruger as well. Ruger sold us out on the ’94 AWB and it is well documented. Search “Ruger anti gun”. It’s sad but it happens. Ruget supported the ban on “high capacity” (ie standard capacity) mags as it favored their line of sporting rifles like the mini-14. So in a nutshell Ruger and Springfield are now on the list.

        8. avatar TrueBornSonofLiberty says:

          To be fair- since Bill Ruger’s death, the company has done a complete 180. One of the few cases of sincere contrition. They’ve earned back the support of 2A advocates, imo.

        9. avatar JayWye says:

          Are you aware it was Bill Ruger who testified before Congress that “nobody needs more than 10 rounds”?
          and that’s where the idea of 10 round limit for magazines originated,right from the mouth of Bill Ruger.

        10. avatar Jeff K says:

          Bill died, get over it.

        11. avatar Johnny G says:

          Don’t forget about the Ruger, Smith and Wesson sellout….. They pulled the same crap for the Clinton ban

      2. avatar Sean says:

        Amen almost bought a springfield I agree with you to hell with them sig glock ruger for me here on out

    3. avatar Tom says:

      What would you have done differently if you ran SA or RRA with a workforce that is similarly trapped in soviet Illinois and depends on your company staying open and profitable to keep their jobs?
      With the Hillary’s loss there is no longer a looming gun ban on the horizon and the firearm industry and market is facing a correction. The future for firearms manufacturers is less than certain due to falling demand and moving a 50year old corporation like SA out of state is a huge expenditure.

      Not saying you have to like what happened, but it’s soviet Illinois, it was going to happen with or without their opposition. They did what they had to do to stay profitable just like companies in Kalifornia and NewYork and liberal bastions.

      1. avatar Cliff H says:

        What would I have done?

        I read somewhere that there is a city named Springfield in almost every state in the Union. I would start negotiating with one of those for manufacturing space and move my entire operation to a gun-friendly climate. At least the company would survive, even if the move was costly. Current employees would be welcone to come along, otherwise there are many good and talented Americans looking for work.

        1. avatar Lava shark says:

          Just to be clear, they are using the name of the original company of Springfield, but they are not located in the city of Springfield. The company is based in Genesco Illinois, near Chicago.

        2. avatar Hellofromillinois says:

          Its GENESEO and its still about 3 hours from Chicago. Pretty small and isolated country town. Very close to where I grew up. I have family that works in the town.

        3. avatar Lava shark says:

          Sorry for the spelling error. And yes, they are actually closer to Iowa than to Chicago. Anytown on I80 feels like the Chicago area to the downstaters. No offense meant, I was just pointing out that Springfield Armory has no connection to the city of Springfield Illinois.

      2. avatar TrueBornSonofLiberty says:

        Have you not been following this story? Didn’t you read this article? The law doesn’t get past the senate without Springfield’s cooperation. PERIOD. You ask what was Springfield supposed to do? Fight it. There are millions of people in the US who no longer think that it’s enough to fight and die for these rights. Folks like me are willing to kill for them. I don’t expect everyone to feel that way. But I won’t EVER support a company who actively supports an infringement of any kind. They MUST be boycotted into bankruptcy.

        1. avatar Tim says:

          You are retarded.

      3. avatar Travis Jones says:

        It’s real easy for you people to bash a company when you don’t own shit. But when you have a muti million dollar company that’s set up in a state that’s you can’t just pick up and move then you do what you have to do to survive. Every damn one of you bad asses crying ” I won’t buy from them again” would have done the same thing. Grow the hell up and when you get some big boy panties and own your own business you will understand how it works. Maybe then you can explain it to the pussy who wrote this article.

        1. avatar Keystone says:

          Beretta (ex-MD) and Remington (ex-NY) make your statements look foolish.

          Companies move all the time. Mostly out of states with onerous laws and heavy taxation. No sane company would move in to Illinois unless it was to curry political favor in Chicago as Boeing moving their HQ (no production) did.

          Nobody moves a company to New York (Remington has moved most out).

          Beretta kicked Maryland to the curb for their ridiculous gun laws.

          Les Baer moved to Iowa.

          It happens ALL THE TIME, and with companies much larger than RRA. Couple of Butler Buildings, concrete pad to support machinery loading, movers and a power hookup. Boom. Done. You can learn to make good parts on a CNC a lot faster than on a Bridgeport or SouthBend. Helps to have the older experience but not insurmountable. I’d bet a bunch of employees would jump at the chance go move from IL to TN or MO or TX. Going the other direction nobody would move. Local politicians always give tax incentives to move. “job creation” they call it (bribery is such a dirty word). RRA will wind up being an LE only shop. SA, who knows, maybe they can retool to make manure spreaders.

          They’re both stuck now. Neither will have the working capitol to sustain a relocation.

        2. avatar Hannibal says:

          If there’s something worse than a fanboy, it’s a fanboy fudd.

          Everyone here is minding our business, because it’s our business where our money goes. And if stooges like you thought this could be run under the table without anyone noticing, well, guess you should be mindful of your business in the next few quarters.

          And by the way, sarcastically calling people ‘badasses’ loses it’s effect when you get so butthurt by an article that you start calling the author a ‘pu$$y’.

        3. avatar TrueBornSonofLiberty says:

          Apparently, John Smith isn’t an advocate of the constitution or specifically the second amendment. For folks like me, it is no longer enough to be willing to fight and die for these rights, but to be willing to kill for them as well. IMO, this last election postponed the literal civil war I’ve been advocating for for over 10 years. This should put some perspective on how important this issue is to many of us. (And I can guarantee he would never speak to me like that in person.)

        4. avatar Mike Egan says:

          Easy there tough guy. Tell us more about your experience in running a business. Please focus on customer relations and positioning strategies.

        5. avatar Jean-Claude says:

          Kahr moved out of NY. Magpul moved to WY.

          Springfield could have fought this—or vocally opposed it on its way to potential passage. But they were happy to allow their lobbyist to finagle them a carve out. Any I have to ask WHY?

          What’s the hangup for SA? The licensing fee? Do they somehow know the licensing scheme is going to be corrupt or extremely expensive? Even if it’s expensive, SA is in a better position to pay the fee than Hank and Ethel’s gun shop.

          No, they stood by and let their customers get screwed. They have no ethics.

        6. avatar Tim says:

          This.

          What should be boycotted is this garbage blog.

          IF WE LOSE RRA BECAUSE OF THIS HYSTERICAL REACTION, that’s a blow to liberty. RRA IS THE ONLY COMPANY THAT CAN MAKE A RELIABLE AR-10.

          I will now buy another LAR-8 in case you idiots force RRA out of business.

        7. avatar JDC says:

          Tim,

          Your opinion and your’re entitled to it and welcome to voice it here, though it seems you prefer that others not voice theirs if they disagree with you.

          Plenty of folks out there shooting LWRC, ArmaLite, DPMS who would argue theirs are reliable, accurate, & mo’ betta too. in some cases they are just as passionate about their brands.

          LAR 8 is a nice weapon. Enjoy shooting it, and the second one if you buy one.

          Have a good week.

        8. avatar John McPherson says:

          I am sure you do not mean Nissan or Beretta both of which picked up and moved to Tennessee for their headquarters (as well as many other companies). Yes, a company can move and thrive, as it only a matter of time before the cutout is removed and they are closed down.

        9. avatar Melvin Pierce says:

          So how is screwing your customer base over a sound business strategy? Good luck with that RRA.

        10. Magpul moved. RRA is pretty close to Iowa iirc.

        11. avatar Jeep says:

          Travis Jones–Magpul disagrees with you.

      4. avatar Chris says:

        When Colorado banned high cap magazines magpul moved to Texas. they should have fought not laid over. I used to love my Springfield XDM and M1a national match. They are good weapons but I Can’t help but feel betrayed when I look at them now.

      5. avatar Brad says:

        What would I do if I was RRA and SAI? I would move EVERYTHING 25 miles West to Davenport Iowa. If workers still want a job, it’s a reasonable commute.

        1. avatar scott says:

          The. Effing. Truth.

      6. avatar Garrison Hall says:

        “Not saying you have to like what happened, but it’s soviet Illinois, it was going to happen with or without their opposition. They did what they had to do to stay profitable just like companies in Kalifornia and NewYork and liberal bastions.”

        Well, now. You’ve just restated Bill Ruger’s justification for selling out gun-rights so he could keep his company viable. Like other gun-manufacturers Springfield can move its operations to a gun-friendly state. It’s called doing business.

      7. avatar JayWye says:

        they’re NOT “trapped” in Illinois,they can relocate,same as other gun companies have done.

      8. avatar ScottsBad says:

        I would have called my lawyer, the NRA and a publicist. AND started planning to move out of the state. Illinois can’t shut down a business that way… No there is no way around it, RRA and Springfield decided their Illinois customers where not worth the trouble. F them.

    4. avatar The Gray Poseur says:

      First World Problem

    5. avatar Tim says:

      RRA and Mr Larson are the only ones who can make a reliable AR-10. Chill out and stop trying to ruin a great company.

      This is not a big deal.

      1. avatar Hannibal says:

        You and your mindset are one of the problems with this country.

      2. avatar jeff gomez says:

        because I’m sure you don’t live in illinios. if you run a company and you don’t know whats going on this is what you deserve. business or not your customers are your lively hood. thats what matter and they put that last.

  2. avatar Jeffro says:

    Dick’s/Field & Stream, Troy, Hexmag, RRA, Springfield Arms, Target, CTD, et al, are making it hard on themselves.They are alienating their demographic. To whom will they sell?

    1. avatar NorincoJay says:

      “CTD does our best to price our products at market value. As the market changes so does our pricing. We are not obligated to honor a price that is in print or an error. We reserve the right to adjust product prices as dictated by the market.”

      I’ve heard of them canceling orders. I’ve never had an issue with CTD in a decade. If you don’t like their price don’t buy. I only purchase products from them with free shipping because they rape you on shipping. I’ve gotten good deals and free shipping on Handguards from CTD. I got a 12″ 2a armament Mlok handguard from them for $148.97 and free shipping in September. I checked my order history. Other places have them for $200.00. Some times they have deals.

      CTD is my last choice. Because of rumors of canceled orders. Brownells, Midway, Primary arms, Rainer, Wing Tactical, and SG Ammo are my favorite online retailers.

      1. avatar FedUp says:

        If CTD notices panic buying, shuts down their site and reprices everything, that’s their right.

        If CTD notices panic buying, cancels prior sales and refunds them, so it can resell stuff that belonged to its customers, that’s not their right.

        1. avatar surlycmd says:

          I had some AR parts on order a few days before Sands Hook. After the event I hadn’t seen a shipping notification. I sent an email and their response was the parts were out of stock. I look at their site and the parts were available from the same warehouses at a higher price. Screw CTD.

      2. avatar DDay says:

        CTD are dirtbags plain and simple. They’d screw over their grandmother for a dime.

        So many good options, why buy from jackasses.

      3. avatar TrueBornSonofLiberty says:

        Cancelled orders? That was just a small part of the problem. They were charging $100 for a 30 round mag during the panic. And their ammo prices were astronomical. Fuck them for gouging desperate buyers.

        1. avatar Mark says:

          This is how capitalism works. If people weren’t buying at these prices than there would be no market. Nothing unethical about this practice.

        2. avatar TrueBornSonofLiberty says:

          I agree. It’s their prerogative. Just as it’s equally acceptable for folks like me to attempt to boycott them into bankruptcy. That’s how capitalism works.

        3. avatar million says:

          when supply can’t meet demand, then the price increases.. this draws more suppliers into the market to meet demand and you see the price decrease. you can’t fix prices or you’ll get a shortage.

          see: gasoline supply during any natural disaster where the govt threatens to prosecute “profiteers”

        4. avatar nunuya says:

          So I have to ask. Do you know how much the dealer bought them for? Or how much it was going to take to replace them?
          I have been in similar situations where it is damned if I do damned if I don’t. Either don’t have any or I overpay to have the stock and have it at a price that everyone individual doesn’t want to buy the whole lot at once.

          There is a story of a guy that got run out of business after a hurricane because he “jacked” his prices up for generators. When no one else had any left.
          Come to find out the guy had paid triple for the supply to be trucked in so people could have them. After the backlash he closed down the store and retired. His quote was basically the above “damned if I do damned if I don’t” and that it wasn’t worth the headache.

  3. avatar Jolly Roger Out says:

    Springfield Armory is a dishonest operation from stem to stern. First, they co-opt the name of a famous military armory to start a business with absolutely no ties to the original Springfield. They make a so-so M14 copy that can only stand up because Norinco can’t export their el-cheapo copy here anymore. They rebrand the HS2000 as the “XD” and jack up the price $200. More recently, they do this big “Saint” countdown/reveal that just ends up being Another Entry-Level AR-15, just what the market needed. Now they piss on us and tell us it’s raining? Screw them. I hope they go out of business and leave the dishonesty to our opponents.

    1. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

      In fairness, Sprin gfield Arm ory isn’t the only one to co-opt a name that it had no connection to (cough-Henry-cough).

      1. avatar BLoving says:

        Huh?
        Henry?
        Granted, the company isn’t run by a “Henry” these days but I thought the paper trail of ownership was fairly clear and unbroken. And their quality has never wavered (damn straight…).
        What part of their history am I missing Gov?

        1. avatar Jeff K says:

          At least Henry, like Ruger, is 100% American. They also make an Original Henry Rifle.

        2. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

          Since 2002. – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Repeating_Arms#History

          The original company lives on today under the name Winche ster.

        3. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

          Here’s a basic synopsis of the original company; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Repeating_Arms_Company#Early_history

          There never was a ‘Henry’ fi rearms company (until 2002). The Henry ri fle was made by the New Haven Ar ms Company.

    2. avatar Dave M says:

      I also find their use of Springfield Armory in their advertising repulsive, implying over 240 years of history in the current company, starting in 1777. Bullshit. And now a sell out. Never give one inch or miles will be lost.

    3. avatar BLoving says:

      Welp. All things considered, a Henry Big Boy in .44mag is more likely to see the inside of my safe than a M1A1. As for Winchester – still keeping an eye out for someone selling Grandad’s old ’94 that’s beat to hell but still shoots straight… so I can beat it up a bit more.

    4. avatar CommieIL says:

      If you do a little digging, you will find they were importing 1911s from Brazil in the early days too.

    5. avatar Raoul Duke says:

      +1, they are a bunch of liars praying on the ignorant.

      I am happy with my Polytech. They use forged parts and at least the Chinese are honest to let you know where the parts come from (China) whereas with Springfield it is a toss-up where the parts are made (I heard from Taiwan, Canada, even the Czech Republic!!).

      1. avatar JayWye says:

        Czech Republic makes good guns,like CZ’s. CZ-75/85 are great guns.

  4. avatar Ray says:

    My sprinters were not seeing much action lately. They will now go to the top so I can wear them out and use the warranty. An EMP 4 WAS the next scheduled buy….. not anymore, never again.

    1. avatar tsbhoa.p.jr says:

      that’s the one i’ve just stopped considering.

  5. avatar Ed says:

    Never buying anything from springfield ever again and my one xdm is up for sale as of yesterday…I dont even want it in my safe.

    1. avatar Ing says:

      What flavor is it, and how much do you want?

    2. avatar Tim says:

      You should’ve made that decision because it is a piece of garbage, not because of this hysterical article.

  6. avatar rt66paul says:

    I imagine that there will be a few FFLs leaving IL. By the time most of them have and Springfield Arms starts looking for a new home, they won’t be welcome there.
    That is only if Springfield Arms survives this.

    1. avatar Rusty Williams says:

      They are more than welcome in southern Indiana. We need more FFLs down here so there will be some competition. The local ones are more like highway bandits than gun dealers. When a big box store is competitive on price with the local gun shop, you know there is a problem. Thank God we have a Rural King now here local. I’ve bought 4 guns in the last year and a half since they opened their store.

      1. avatar Hoosier Budget Gun Guy says:

        Indiana has a good climate for manufacturers of firearms, and I wouldn’t mind seeing a few more ffl’s open up shop near me in Northwest Indiana, either.

        1. avatar Josef Metchnikoff says:

          I made the move to northwest Indiana 20 years ago. Moved my medical business AND brought my family. It was a great decision, I have never looked back

        2. avatar Calvin says:

          If only there was a place to run-and-gun in or near NWI.

  7. avatar Pwrserge says:

    Thankfully, we still have two more chances to stop this travesty of a bill. That being said, even if we do, Springfield is done as a company.

    1. avatar FedUp says:

      Somehow, I get the idea the House will be a cakewalk for any anti-gun bill compared to the Senate, which this one has already passed.

      The governor?
      Who knows?

  8. avatar onezero says:

    An M1A was at the top of my wish list that I saving for. No more. I just wish there was a good M14 clone I could get.

    1. avatar TStew says:

      Such a thing exists. Not cheap by any stretch of the imagination, but check out Fulton Armory: http://www.fulton-armory.com/M14-Rifles.aspx

      1. avatar onezero says:

        Thanks for info.

        1. avatar surlycmd says:

          Watch the TonyBen videos on YouTube. That guy knows the M14 and M1a rifles.

    2. avatar Taylor TX says:

      Thats kind of where Im at as well, REALLY pissed Im not going to be buying the Socom II Ive been saving for.

    3. avatar M1Lou says:

      Also check out the BM 59 kits and complete rifles out there. It’s about the same price as an M1A. If you want to scope your BM 59, there is a company that makes a direct over the bore scope kit for Garands that fits the BM59. I have a BM-59 kit that still needs to be built.

  9. avatar TStew says:

    Hugely disappointing. Yuge. Here I was just falling in love with my SA 1911 Loaded…

    1. avatar Wiregrass says:

      Yes, very disappointed. My SA 1911 Loaded Target has been my favorite pistol since I bought it last year. Was very interested in this new pistol too as a possible single-stack semi-auto alternative to my J-frame. Probably go back to looking at CZ and Walther offerings. I’d like to see Springfield make a correction here but it might be too late for that. Not a smart move in a buyer’s market, or any really.

      1. avatar JDC says:

        Wiregrass,

        If you are willing to do 9mm, check out an Honor Guard. Made in US, SSteel frame, ambi controls, no mag safety, field strips/assembles in less than a minute with no tools or pulling trigger. Great grip and trigger. Wasn’t sold on DAO until I shot it. Rock solid performer. Down side is nobody making spare mags for it yet other than Hornor Defense.

  10. avatar Aven says:

    I don’t have anything from either of the turncoat manufacturers and based on their actions, I never will. It will make my future purchases easier because two manufacturers are automatically removed from my search and consideration. I think they and Illinois deserve each other and I hope they both end up on the wrong end of history.

  11. avatar Huntmaster says:

    This is income tax refund time. When you sell high dollar items like firearms, it is really, really, unbelievably stupid, to piss off your customer base at rebate time. Who the hell made this business decision and have they been fired yet? I can promise that none, and I mean none of my not unsubstantial refund, is going to wind up in Springfield’s receivables account.

    1. avatar Bob in IN says:

      Gun owners have good memories, it will take a year but Springfield like Target will notice their mistake on their Revenue numbers and blame the weather, the president, insert excuse here. I.e., Target blamed climate change on revenue misses.

      1. avatar Danny Griffin says:

        No they don’t. And if they do, all the company has to do is say “sorry” like Ruger. Gun owners should have bankrupted Ruger immediately, but they didn’t. And don’t give me this “they have changed” nonsense. How is it that they even survived to change in the first place?

        1. avatar unknown says:

          Ruger was making superior quality products using totally American resources. Bill Ruger retired from the company in 2000 and died in 2002. After his passing, a new leadership took over the company with many positive results. Bill may not have been perfect (who is), but his passion for firearms was solid and he was known as ‘America’s Gunmaker’, for good reasons. You can not name another firearms manufacture today that has done more than Ruger to support the NRA, the 2A and firearms owners. Never sold out to foreign companies or parts sources or manufacturing or skimped on quality control. Henry and Ruger get my votes for ‘America’s Gunmakers’. After Ruger (finally) gets all of it’s new products launched they will have just about all the bases covered.

        2. avatar Danny Griffin says:

          Are you reading-impaired? How did Ruger even survive to do a turn-around?

          That’s my point. Gun owners don’t care.

        3. avatar unknown says:

          You would answer your own question if you noticed my opening remark: Ruger was making superior quality products using totally American resources.

        4. avatar Danny Griffin says:

          So that’s a reason for ignoring the fact that Ruger basically wrote the assault weapons ban? Well, not basically, they did. Ruger’s stated public position was screw every other gun manufacturer and screw the American gun owners, as long as Ruger makes it and we want government contracts!

          WTF is wrong with you?!

        5. avatar Jeff K says:

          The bill’s author was Dianne Feinstein (D-CA)

        6. avatar Danny Griffin says:

          Wrong. The bill’s author was (mostly) Ruger’s attorneys. No wonder we’re in trouble, POTG are clueless.

        7. avatar Kyle says:

          I think sometimes its just because they are new to the hobby of guns. I bought 6 smith & wessons before I ever knew about ‘the incident’.

          had I known earlier, I might have bought a few more colt revolvers…..god I wish I’d known.

        8. avatar Wiregrass says:

          Kyle,

          The owners at S&W that colluded with Clinton paid the price for it. S&W was sold for 12% of its former value. I don’t think the current owner is going to make that same mistake although I wish they would just stop putting in that stupid lock already.

        9. avatar Danny Griffin says:

          Not to mention that when S&W colluded with Clinton they were owned by the British engineering firm Tomkins. An American didn’t screw all other American gun-owners.

        10. avatar Timothy says:

          I think that if gun owners boycotted every company into oblivion that had to compromise at some point… there wouldn’t be any gun manufacturers around. Ruger, S&W, Springfield, Rock River, I’ve seen people complain about Glock and Colt, Hex Mag, and about a dozen more. What’s left after the hate which never leaves? Taurus?

          Springfield’s crime here is they didn’t immediately counter the IFMA when the IFMA dropped opposition to a bill. That’s bad, don’t get me wrong. I think a hit to Springfield sales should get them leaning on the IFMA (who should be facing a hit to subscribers) enough for the IFMA to not fold in the future. If this bill actually passes, I think the hit should be pretty severe.

          But I struggle with the “NEVER AGAIN WILL I EVER SUPPORT THIS COMPANY. THEY MUST PARISH AND EVERYONE WHO DOESN’T BACK ME I’M GONNA CURSE AT AND BE MEAN TO!!!!” mantra. Please, spend your money where you want. If that hurts a company who’s sold you out, good.

          Just keep in mind, if you have a dozen guns in your safe, I GUARANTEE you that at least one comes from a company who’s compromised at some point.

        11. avatar Danny Griffin says:

          Apples and suspension bridges here. Ruger didn’t compromise, they wrote the AWA and betrayed every American gun owner in a most serious way.

  12. avatar No one of consequence says:

    If RRA really didn’t know about this, then their next steps should be to cancel their membership in IFMA, denounce the lobying they did, and – maybe – start looking to move.

    We’ll see.

  13. avatar pilot25 says:

    I was just about to purchase a 1911 with the deal Springfield is running this week. Glad I happened upon this article.

    My 1911 search continues and I’ll never purchase a Springfield.

    1. avatar Jeff K says:

      One word, Ruger.

      1. avatar JDC says:

        Another: Kimber

  14. avatar Bruce Shell says:

    As a “collector” of modern handguns, I was very interested in Springfield’s new XD-E and was hoping to find one as soon as they became available – until all of this political posturing took place in Illinois (I live in neighboring Indiana). There is NOTHING I need from a company that is obviously manipulating the system for themselves. Illinois acts like an evil, independant country when it comes to our Second Amendment rights, ignoring law and constantly jockeying for ways to squelch our right of self-protection through our right to bear arms. Major mistake, Springfield.

  15. avatar Gary says:

    Now that I understand what occurred it’s pretty obvious as gunners we need to pass on Springfield and run to Henry. We need the pistols to get to our rifles anyway. You can bet our sport; Henry wouldn’t have gone along with that.

  16. avatar Jacko says:

    I considered buying an XDs when I was looking for a conceal carry, glad I bought something else. Never bought anything “Springfield Armory”, never will!

  17. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

    If there’s a silver lining here, this law should be shot down by the courts. You cannot exempt large businesses from onerous regulations that you impose on small businesses.

    1. avatar Dave says:

      That should be true. However, too many judges seem to rule on what they think should be fine, instead of the law. And the law mainly affecting small businesses, that’s a feature, I think, not a bug.

      The more concentrated the producers and sellers of firearms becomes the easier it will be to controlled and monitored. Which would help with elimination if in the future.

      1. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

        This is why I said ‘should’ not ‘will’. There are more corrupt justices out their than honest ones.

        1. avatar Jeff K says:

          Unfortunately you are so correct.

        2. avatar Rusty Chains says:

          We there the courts kill the law or the governor vetoes it, nothing changes the sellout by Springfield.

    2. avatar CentralIL says:

      This isn’t really about the law itself. It may not even pass the House.

      It is about the betrayal.

      1. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

        Yes, that is the cloud which is usually much larger than the silver lining.

        As far as the betrayal, bear in mind that it was the act of a couple of people and unfortunately there are plenty of freedom loving 2nd Amendment supporters working for SA that will be harmed by their bad judgement. Of course there will be others that benefit as well.

  18. avatar Scott H. says:

    Damn shame. And unbelievably stupid of Springfield.

    I had the EMP4 Contour and a TRP on my 2017 list. Don’t know what will replace the EMP4 but I bet the TRP itch gets scratched by a Dan Wesson.

    1. avatar JDC says:

      I was a dedicated 1911 guy and really wanted to stick with something with a grip safety like the EMP contour or even the R-51. However, the R-51 is a bear to clean and still hasn’t proven itself totally for CC, coming off its well documented ill fated Gen 1 launch and Remington’s continued reliability issues. Springfield makes decent guns but there are others out there.

      I ended up buying an Honor Defense “Honor Guard.” Very pleased with it, as it has most of the features I wanted on a CC weapon. Good grip, low muzzle flip/recoil, ambi controls, no mag safety and very easy to strip/reassemble. Bonus was it was stainless frame and made in the USA.

      Nice deal on it until 4 July as well. When I found out that they hire Vets to assemble and test them, it was icing on the cake and I got one for low $400’s. (I’m a 30 yr Vet). Last trip to the range, ran a couple hundred rounds of all flavors through it without an FTE/FTF.

      Might see if you can find one to test out. Several other really good CC’s out there too if you want one of the big mfg’s.

  19. avatar Joe R. says:

    Illinoying is pushing to get shut down. After the next civil war, we won’t allow another one.

    1. avatar Turd Furgeson says:

      Civil war? Gimme a break Joe.

      Keyboard commandos won’t fight it out on any battlefield. Katrina gun confiscation showed us what any civil conflict will have as the belligerents, LEOs / Feds posing as LEOs giving you a hard choice….and a few Bundy-style standoffs.

      Antifa is showing what they are willing to do, watch their fellow komrad take a LEO beanbag round to the wang and keep marching. The silent majority will get the shaft, not gonna be any civil war, get over yourself

  20. avatar Guidoc says:

    Same here. I have been casually looking at getting a 1911. The Springfields looked to be a good value. Not now.
    Glad I waited. No guilt trip on my hip.

  21. avatar former water walker says:

    Springfield is DEAD to me. I have LOUDLY mentioned their treachery on the dozens of FB groups I belong to. If Rauner is serious about re-election he will veto this flaming sack of shite…

  22. avatar Adub says:

    What’s the feedback at the NRA show running like?

    If I was a competitor, I’d print up ten thousand flyers announcing Springfield’s decision and carpet the show with them.

    1. avatar Joe R. says:

      The NRA would likely throw you and your fliers in the dumpster. After asking you if you’d like to sign up for a membership, and cc insurance.

      I’m sorry, I mean they would ask after putting you and your fliers in the dumpster.

  23. avatar Cadeyrn says:

    Did you expect anything less than shady from the Illinois legislature?

    Why does anyone ever even try to work with them? It’s like trying to work with Bloomberg himself. Anyone who tries will come out worse for the experience. Now Springfield will learn the hard way.

    More interesting question: can Springfield even attempt to disavow at this point? I think probably not. Damage done. In order to try to get a lock on about 1.6 million FOID holders in Illinois, Springfield has angered the other 80 million gun owners in the rest of the nation. That’s bad math and bad leadership. Now they will pay the price.

  24. avatar Davis Thompson says:

    I’m a New Yorker. For a while there, post SAFE-ACT passage, it looked like 10-round (I know, right) mags were going to be outlawed. So I went on a buying spree. I won’t name them, but the sales people at certain companies worked hard (and maybe even fudged some dates on paperwork) to make sure that I got my magazines before the deadline in the law hit.

    When I contacted Springfield about getting some spare magazines for my M1A, they told me they wouldn’t sell to me because I lived in New York. When I explained that sales were still legal before the SAFE Act deadline went into force, they still refused. Under no circumstances would they sell me any magazines.

    So I got the mags from a third party seller and have refused to do business with them ever since. They can spout their support of the 2A all day, just like Shannon Watts does, but it’s just words.

  25. avatar EGB says:

    Personally hate to hear whenever CEOs or head honchos make public decisions costing their employees’ jobs/money. It’s easy for consumers to march elsewhere, skilled Illinois tradespeople may not be so lucky. Looked at a custom SA 1911 before purchasing an STI. Hopefully this boycott will pass over with minimal job loss to the common machinist…

  26. avatar Michael says:

    Didnt Smith and Wesson do the same thing back in the Clinton era, and it nearly bankrupted them, let alone took them years to reclaim the trust of the gun community. Obviously Springfield and others have not learned this lesson and are going down the same road. I hope that it will bankrupt them, for it appears to be the only way these gun companies will learned to to alienate their comsumers.

    1. avatar Bohica says:

      Smith and Wesson’s deal with the Klinton regime also brought us the infamous and deplorable “hillary hole” internal lock. I’ve refused to buy S&W products since then, with the sole exception of a Model 640 Pro .357 Magnum, which lacks the damned thing.

      As for Springfield Armory, I’m really sorry to see them cross over to the dark side. I’ve never had better customer service with any other business. In fact, I own a Springfield M1A Scout Squad that they gave me free of charge after I encountered a series of malfunctions with an old SAR8. They fixed the old rifle, returned it to me and offered me the M1A for all the troubles I had experienced. Can’t beat that!

      Anyway, at least for now, I will bide my time and see if Springfield repents and takes positive actions to atone for their irrational IL acts.

    2. avatar Mark says:

      As far as I’m concerned, Smith and Wesson are still shit given they operate in communist MA and they should have packed up an left after what that bitch Maura Healey did last year. So, S and W are also dead to me.

  27. avatar cmblake6 says:

    This would appear to be financial suicide by Springfield. As has been said by numerous others, that Springer I had thought about buying just got thrown under the bus.

  28. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

    Two more companies added to my “do not buy from” list.

    1. avatar TexTed says:

      Is there a list somewhere? There should be a “hall of shame” for betrayals (and later repentances) by gun companies. I swear it’s getting hard to keep track of them all by memory.

    2. avatar strych9 says:

      Two? If RRA didn’t know about this and, as a sign of their disgust, drops their funding and membership in the trade group you’d still hold them accountable?

      Yikes.

      1. avatar Calvin says:

        It doesn’t have to be both for the same reason. Springfield for intention; RRA for negligence. Neither excuse is a proper justification.

  29. avatar Stinkeye says:

    “In the end, the timing proved fortuitous to all involved.”

    I don’t think you’re using that word right. Having this blow up the day before a brand-new product launch at the NRA convention is basically the exact opposite of “fortuitous” timings for Springfield. It’s a freakin’ disaster. They spent weeks trying to gin up interest in the XD-E introduction with their mysterious ads, and it was all for nothing.

    Expect deep, deep discounts on that warehouse full of XD-E’s and Saints they were hoping to sell this summer. Layoffs to follow.

    1. avatar Jeff K says:

      If discounted to $0, maybe. Could be paperweights.

  30. avatar David Deplorable says:

    Boch,

    I see how you fired a shot across IFMA’s bow last week. They ignored it.

    Remind me not to piss you off.

  31. avatar Tex300BLK says:

    Had a Springfield 1911 that I sold late last year to fund another purchase and was thinking of replacing it with a TRP at some point… guess this gives me all the excuses I needed to spend a few hundred more for a Dan Wesson or an STI.

    1. avatar Mr. Pierogie says:

      I used to have a TRP. While it was a great pistol, the front strap checkering was just way too aggressive for bare hands. I think it was meant to be used with gloves on only. And I believe it came with an internal lock on the main spring housing. Get a Dan Wesson instead. I’d say they are a step above most other production 1911s.

  32. avatar James Severns says:

    I just bought an EMP 3-inch. Now I wish I had not. My time stinks apparently

    1. avatar Jeff K says:

      Probably hard now to sell it for half what you paid if at all.

      1. avatar Hannibal says:

        Not everyone reads TTAG or keeps up with this sort of ‘in the weeds’ stuff.

  33. avatar M1Lou says:

    Did SA forget that this isn’t 1988 anymore and that the internet exists? People are watching everything the government and companies are doing now. You won’t be able to pull a fast one and expect to not get called out on it.

    I am still trying to figure out how best to get rid of my XD-40 and assist in flooding the market with used XD pistols.

    1. avatar Stinkeye says:

      An XD and it’s in .40? That’s a double-whammy of reduced demand in the current market. Good luck!

  34. avatar AZgunner says:

    Bummer, I was considering a Springfield 1911 at some point. Nothing Springfield will ever be in my collection now.

  35. avatar Keystone says:

    Pennsylvania checking in. We will support our Illinois brethren and NOT purchase anything from Springfield Armory or RRA.

    The Reese clan has done dirty deals before, got busted too

    http://www.upi.com/Archives/1989/03/16/Salvador-based-Army-colonel-indicted-on-bribery-charges/5406606027600/

    RRA sells to NY LE supporting the SAFE act, which is trying to put a vet away for 21 years for having 17rd mags (no gun, just mags)

    http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/04/veteran_faces_21_years_in_prison_for_possession_of_pistol_magazines.html

    Can’t support either company.

    They are actively editing social media but refuse to address the issue.

    The firearms community will be better without them. We do not need traitors in our midst.

    1. avatar Jeff K says:

      Or companies selling imported crap that pretend to be American. Henry and Ruger for the win.

    2. avatar Keystone says:

      Oh yes, the Senator behind the bill has many skeletons

      http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/illinois-state-senator-don-harmon-law-firm-makes-millions-from-state-agencies-pension-funds-the-watchdogs-oak-park/

      A corrupt Illinois politician. Shocking I know.

      1. avatar The Cute Guy says:

        Imagine, a corrupt Illinois politician! That is sooo repetitious! It’s like saying Saturn is really, really big, and huge, too!

    3. avatar Anner says:

      Wow, the article on Reese is incredible. How is he still employed?

      1. avatar TrueBornSonofLiberty says:

        Employed? He owns Springfield.

  36. avatar Shire-man says:

    What gets me is there has been plenty of time and opportunity for damage control or to save face but they haven’t done anything to fix what they’ve done. As if they want to implode.

  37. avatar Ralph says:

    SA and RRA can KMA.

  38. avatar Fleetwrench says:

    Rock River booth at the NRA convention, owner Chuck Larson has professed innocence in the matter. He’s told several industry types that he had no contact with IFMA lobbyist Jay Keller and knew nothing of this carve-out. What’s more, Larson seems genuinely appalled by what happened.

    So Rock River spent at least $50.000 fund the Illinois Firearms Manufacturers Association. And IFMA successfully lobbied and got a manufactures exemption this bill . And no one calls or emails the company that is one of the largest contributor the IFMA group.
    Im appalled that Rock River thinks that we are that gullible..

    1. avatar strych9 says:

      That kind of thing actually happens all the time in lobbying.

      The lobbyists sometimes seriously overestimate how happy something will make a member or simply don’t have the time to keep the membership completely up to date with minute-by-minute updates on how wrangling over a bill is proceeding.

      In the former case it’s a matter of not really understanding the client and in the latter it’s a case of assuming that it’s better to ask for forgiveness than to beg for permission. Lobbying groups run on a lot of assumptions and they don’t take a vote from membership every time a change is made to a bill that they think concerns their members.

      1. avatar Stinkeye says:

        Maybe that’s the case in many instances, but it’s not like the IFMA has thousands of members. It’s pretty much just SA and RRA (and maybe a few tiny shops, but those are pretty much the only two big gun makers in Illinois). I can’t imagine the CEOs of those two companies weren’t in the loop on these negotiations.

  39. avatar Tiger says:

    Damn…… This is turning into that mob with the torches looking for Frankenstein.

    1. avatar Tim Good says:

      And your point, Mary?

      Springfield Armory *deserves* to be pitchforked and torched.

  40. avatar Gus says:

    Was going to purchase a TRP and was looking at RRA ar. No more. Sellouts. Low character move. Shame!

  41. avatar SaC says:

    Meanwhile, there’s another, ahem, firearm blog, that refuses to address the SA/RRA issue. Glad to see TTAG not shy away from it.

  42. avatar Ranger Rick says:

    I have an SA Profesional that I really like and was strongly considering a Custom Carry, but this turn of events gives me a real pause to that idea.

  43. avatar TrueBornSonofLiberty says:

    These two companies MUST be boycotted into bankruptcy. The rights of citizens that they’ve agreed to negotiate away will NEVER be restored. They must be put out of business for their treachery.

    1. avatar strych9 says:

      If one of them didn’t actually know about this then that’s really not fair.

      Also, RRA derives the bulk of it’s money from government and LE contracts so you’ll have a really hard time bankrupting them with a civvie sales boycott.

  44. avatar Keystone says:

    Along with lost new sales, this boneheaded move will kill resale values.

    Most don’t buy a gun thinking about selling it down the road, bit it happens. Peoplr lose jobs, get divorced, buy better guns and so on.

    If you know you’re going to lose 50% off sticker driving something new off the lot, odds are you keep looking. The Springfield name is going to carry an odor, no matter how good a particular firearm might be. Not a nice odor…

    Is Rob Leatham going to stick with Springfield after this debacle?

    http://robleatham.com

    He might want to eject before the SS Springfield capsizes.

  45. avatar Joe Henderson says:

    Illinois gun owners should pack up and move across the Mississippi to Missouri.

    1. avatar hansons assault system.......mark hanson says:

      that’s what Illinois is hoping for stand our ground

  46. avatar Rimfire says:

    Springfield got me right in my “Grip Zone” with this move, bu-bye SA

  47. avatar Keystone says:

    Nice video summary:

    1. avatar FedUp says:

      I fail to see how giving the box stores a leg up on the gun shops helps Rock River or Springfield Arms in any way. He’s totally grasping at straws on that point in his video.

      Should have just stuck to the point that “hey, you can do anything you want to our dealers as long as you leave us out of it”.

  48. avatar Travis says:

    Why does Ruger all of the sudden get a pass on treachery? Bill Ruger was key in the implementing of the ’94 AWB, refusing to sell evil 20+ round magazines to anyone but .gov entities? He kept his marginal Mini-14 from hitting the list, selling out the gun owner in the process! F$&@ Ruger too!

    1. avatar Mark says:

      I totally agree Travis. Fuck Ruger as well.

      1. avatar Anner says:

        Bill is long gone and the last 15yrs of Ruger leadership have taken a much different stance. The innovation and embracing of modern ideas we’ve seen the last 10yrs (MSRs, suppressors, polymer everything, etc) never would have happened under Bill.

        Ruger today is a strong supporter of everything 2A. It’s enough of a turnaround that I forgive their earlier sins.

        1. avatar Tim Good says:

          “Springfield Armory today is a strong supporter of everything 2A. It’s enough of a turnaround that I forgive their earlier sins.”

          Anner (circa April 30, 2027)

        2. avatar unknown says:

          Only Ruger has in the past few years regularly donated millions to the NRA. They are a leader in the firearms field with a vast array of products that work correctly. Customer service beyond any reproach. A CEO that listens to the customer. I would say that Ruger has done more to support the 2A than all other companies combined. It only sells a 100% American Made product using American Labor. Totally revitalized the economy of an American community with their 3rd plant. If you don’t support Ruger you don’t support American ideals.

  49. avatar strych9 says:

    As I said on Thursday, when it comes to RRA I was, and still am, unsure if they had any foreknowledge of what was about to occur.

    Until I see some evidence that they knew of and/or supported this I will not rush to blame RRA for what a trade industry group that they happen to fund did. They profess innocence at this point, let’s see if their actions match their words. If they pull funding from the group we’ll have some decent evidence that they didn’t and don’t support this carve out and are catching crap for something which they had no part in creating.

    Springfield’s CEO on the other hand, either through stupidity, hamhandedness or outright lying has seriously damaged his company. However, again I wasn’t really in the market to add anything else from their company to my safe anyway.

  50. avatar Lance Manion says:

    I have a Rock River PDS carbine. Great gun. I’m not selling it because of this cluster, but I’m not buying from RRA again either. Don’t own a Springfield anything and now never will.

  51. avatar Leo Kovel says:

    Well after reading this and let me add no love for blue Illinois my days with SA are over. My inventory of six XD pistol’s two 1911 .45’s and two M 1A’s will be up for sale tommorow. No further recommendation about the products will be made. I cannot in good conscience support in any way a company that would pull this kind of stunt. Thanks for Nothing SA. God Bless America

  52. avatar hansons assault systems.......mark hanson says:

    As a dealer I will no longer suggest either one of these firearm companies to my customers or stock them there are many other fine firearms on the market

    1. avatar Stier Arms says:

      As an Illinois dealer, I will no longer stock, sell or support Rock River Arms or Springfield Armory products.

  53. avatar FU Springfield says:

    Springfield Armory’s “Defend your legacy” has a huge hypocritical meaning now. We need to defend our legacy from the likes of them !!

  54. avatar Lava shark says:

    In my collection i have a M1A, a Socom 16, a XDM in 45 and a XDmod2 in 9mm. Absolutely love them. Never a single problem, thousands of rounds. My favorites in their calibers, cherished in my collections. And I’m not giving them up, to anybody, under any circumstances.

    That said, this just breaks my heart to see this moron Reese damage the brand. He’s hurt the small guys trying to kiss up to the big retailers here in Illinois. Can’t this fool see how much this is going to he’s going to hurt his own pocketbook for this tiny edge? This will damage Springfield Armory’s brand nation-wide, in a business where reputation is everything.

    Stupid, just damn stupid.

    1. avatar TrueBornSonofLiberty says:

      But that’s only a fraction of his treachery. He supported this legislation, (by not opposing it) that LIMITS CIVILIANS TO 9 FIREARM TRANSFERS PER YEAR!!!! And what’s worse, if it passes, Bloomberg will attempt to duplicate this legislation in all 50 states. Sure, the majority will be DOA, but blue and swing states will see this get passed using this an example of “good gun control that even firearms companies support”. THEY MUST BE BOYCOTTED INTO BANKRUPTCY. If for no other reason than as a cautionary tale to other would be future sell outs.

  55. avatar David says:

    I was just about to order another springfield xdm .45. I wanted one with the threaded barrel and suppressor sights. Had it in the cart at buds ready to buy tomorrow and now it definitely is not going to happen. I would sell the xd .45 and the xdm 9mm I already have but I don’t think there is much of a market for them now. I know I won’t be buying anything else from springfield armory.

  56. avatar Mike Betts says:

    How does a company respond to pernicious laws and an atmosphere which is detrimental to the People of the Gun? Maybe they should look to Beretta. When the Maryland Leftistlature passed the odious “Gun Safety Act of 2013”, making it illegal to purchase many of the firearms made by the venerable Beretta concern, they responded by building their new facility in Tennessee, giving Maryland a stalwart raised middle finger and taking a considerable amount of tax revenue with them.. I’ve not the least doubt that the rest of Beretta will eventually follow. Good for them. Tennessee welcomed Beretta with open arms and the employment of a lot a lot of people in well-paying jobs. Good for them, too.

    1. avatar unknown says:

      I have talked to people in person in TN that were overjoyed at having Beretta move there. I am not positive, but didn’t Beretta get so pissed with Maryland that they moved everything, or is it still on going?

  57. avatar Robert Adams says:

    The Ceo needs to retire, and everyone on the upper levels canned to. Springfield cleaning to get the taint out of there. Then beg for forgiveness. And then maybe. Both Ruger and S&W learned from their mistakes, I do not know if these two can. RRA donated money as well I think they knew about stuff going on, but want to pretend they did not. I really wanted a trp and a cqb but oh well will get something from another manufacturer.

    1. avatar unknown says:

      Many companies make mistakes, sometimes huge. But do they double down on their error (Target) or put things into place that not only fix the error but make them new and better than ever. Smith and Ruger more than compensated for erroneous thinking. They did what they thought would keep the Criminal Clinton Administration from making a total all out war on guns. Hindsight is always 20/20 and the Liberal Dems are always after our Firearms Freedoms. I don’t buy imported guns so SA & RRA are not going to loose any sales because of me. I want to see how they fix the mess they created with the people who liked their product.

    2. avatar Keystone says:

      Reese is a business guy, not a gun guy, as this video demonstrates:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkfjwStDUUQ

      At 1:02 he’s pointing the XD at the host (which Leathem mentions, ?)

      He was busted before for bribing a Colonel on a Salvadorean arms deal.

      They have a good ongoing business, why jeopardize it? I see only three plausible reasons:

      1) Greed – millions are never enough. Maybe there is a Mrs. Reese or someone or something burning cash on the side (gambling, drugs, who knows) that is consuming profit faster than SA can generate it. So an opportunity to block others selling in Illinois seemed like a quick and dirty way to make a few more bucks.

      2) One of the Resses got caught doing something bad again, and a deal was reached to help anti-2nd forces in exchange for an investigation “going away”

      3) Lobbyist got paid by someone else to “convince” his clients this was a slick deal. Of course lobbyists have the highest ethical standards, so that’s just crazy talk.

      SA looks guilty beyond belief.

      RRA looks pretty darn guilty or pretty darn incompetent.

      Audits of the players, including the lobbyist and relevant politicians, and FOIA’s or something for pending investigations against all the same could prove enlightening. The idea being that this bill is so toxic that Senators passing it or the Governor signing it will be drawn into a wide-ranging financial and criminal probe. How many Illinois politicians wind up going to jail?

      http://www.nbcnews.com/id/28141995/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/illinois-has-long-legacy-public-corruption/

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_state_and_local_politicians_convicted_of_crimes

      Remind them.

      Make this bill kryptonite.

      Start by giving everyone involved a TSA-style probe. Lots of work. Pick something and follow it. Post interesting results everywhere. Divide & conquer. Most importantly, support our brothers in arms in Illinois.

  58. avatar Keystone says:

    Oh yes, Illinois folks: start an ACTIVE campaign outing all the IL Representatives that voted for the bill. Especially ones outside Chiraq. Advertise their treachery.

    Send a signal to IL Senators and the Governor that supporting the bill is politically a trainwreck. Find Senators and Representatives in close political battles last election and get their previously defeated opponents on board. Make it a campaign issue NOW. These fat dumb and happy political hacks aren’t used to burning time and money on issues this far out. Join up with other interest groups if common goals can be found. Are they doing town halls? County fairs? Go and ask them and Youtube/Periscope their responses. They hate this stuff because opponents can use it. Be everywhere until the bill is toast.

    Make this a massive intractable mess. Make the bill political kryptonite.

    1. avatar John Boch says:

      You write as though we’ve been asleep. We’ve got three very active groups on the ground in Illinois promoting GOTV campaigns and spreading the word. We’ve even got a state-centric message board/forum promoting gun rights. But Illinois’ only has about 2.1m gun owners of 12m population – that’s fewer by a significant margin than the number of hard-core urban Dems in Chicago alone.

      We’ve been busting our asses to support our friends and punish our enemies. Hence why, even with Democrats holding a super-majority in both our House and Senate, and a rabidly anti-gun Governor, we held the line – even post-Newtown. We picked up a few seats last fall, but that simply moved the “average ideology” of the Dem members further left in our state legislature. Thankfully, many of the downstate Dems are staunchly pro-gun. Sadly, some of the collar county Repubs aren’t so much.

      John

      You’re welcome to come visit and help during the next election cycle. Or in the General Assembly.

      1. avatar Keystone says:

        No offense intended. We’ll do our part in other states to support you. Simply offering ideas and encouragement. If you’ve already implemented them, great. Everyone (hopefully) recognizes that Bloomberg et al use bad legislation in NY and elsewhere as models to sell to politicians elsewhere, hence the need to use all available legal avenues to demonstrate the fallout from such actions. We’ll also work on the NRA to start taking a firmer stance against rogue anti-2A manufacturers, no matter how much advertising space they buy.

        Now I’m off to call Cabelas and inform them of SA’s treachery and why i will not buy from them as long as they carry SA product

        http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/search.cmd?recordsPerPage=18&No=0&N=0&nl=true&Ntk=AllProducts&Ntt=Springfield+Armory&search=Search

        Thank you for bringing this issue to the forefront.

  59. avatar Ironhead says:

    Sadly I have two. An xdm9 and a 1911 loaded. Was also saving up for an m1a. That will never happen now. Thanks Springfield. And rra. You are both dead to me now.

  60. avatar Special K says:

    I posted a similar comment on another article about the same subject matter, but again, and for emphasis: SPRINGFIELD IS DEAD TO ME. If anyone from SA’s Corporate Communications department happens upon this post, please get this in front of Dennis Reese and let him know that his actions are shameful, and that he has just traded his honor for a paycheck.

  61. avatar John Smith says:

    Typical narrow minded hypocrites.
    Springfield isn’t doing anything that the vast majority of companies do, protecting their bottom line.
    Glock and S&W sell their guns to states like NY, NJ, HI that trample our 2A rights every day but I don’t see you bashing them and I’ll bet most of you own a Glock or a S&W.
    Even being on this site makes you a hypocrite because TTAG regularly advertised for Glock, S&W and Springfield.
    As the old adage goes, put up or shut up. If your going to bash or boycott one then bash and boycott all.

    1. avatar ScottsBad says:

      The vast majority of companies can do what they want to, but have have to insist that firearms companies fight for the 2nd EVEN WHEN ITS NOT IN THEIR COMPLETE SELF INTEREST TO DO SO. Your arguments are supercilious and embarrassingly logic free. When S&W is in the position to potentially block anti-gun legislation but decides not to because it is better for their business even if it screws their customers, THEN YOU WILL SEE ME call for an S&W boycott.

  62. avatar Ironhead says:

    Don’t own a glock.

    1. avatar Heathen says:

      Or a S&W.

  63. avatar Tony E says:

    The lobbying group in question received money from SA and RRA back in 2014. How does what a lobbying group receives from a company 3 years ago translate to what the lobbying group does in the present? From what I gathered from this article and all the information I viewed about this organization it’s hard to say just how much control SA and RRA has over the Illinois Firearms Manufacturers Association.

    1. avatar Brad says:

      Since you researched IFMA you also noticed that the $100K was the ONLY money they had in their account, donated by only two companies, SAI and RRA. No other IL manufacturers donated, not Armalite, not DSA, nada.

      You probably also found out that at least bizapedia reports that the IFMA was dissolved. Meaning they are NOT a legal lobbyist.

      1. avatar Tony E says:

        That doesn’t change what’s actually been proven that was three years ago. Where’s the proof they had enough influence to dictate what that organization did.

        1. avatar TrueBornSonofLiberty says:

          Tony- IFMA is SA’s and RRA’s lobbying firm(as opposed to an existing firm that SA hired. SA created it). That is their only 2 clients because it only exists and was created for them. IRS records have also been found that shows Reese is on the “board” of IFMA.

        2. avatar ScottsBad says:

          I hate to say this Tony, but you are completely clueless about lobbyists. They ONLY DO WHAT THEIR CLIENTS TELL THEM TO DO.

  64. avatar Jimmy B says:

    I’m both an Illinois resident and a SA collector with over half of my collection being custom and box SA products. Thanks a bunch pricks! With all the gun control in northern Illinois how the hell can they screw all of us like this! Up yours Springfield!

  65. avatar Pax says:

    These lobbyists aren’t in business to protect gun owners or the Second Amendment. They’re sole purpose is to protect their own interests. This just proves that point.

    1. avatar Tim says:

      Do you rednecks and white trash go out of your way to get the “their” wrong every single time? It’s not difficult.

  66. avatar scott says:

    Have been eyeballing the SA Saint the last couple weeks. Don’t need it, but I kinda like it. Screw that. CMMG .300 blackout will become my next purchase.

  67. avatar Mel P 72 says:

    So how is screwing your loyal customer base and flipping them the bird to their faces sound business policy? Good luck RRA. This company’s name is Mudd.

  68. avatar Andrew Jordan says:

    I live in Illinois. Yes I am planning on moving. My target is when my oldest daughter graduates from high school. I have to say this really makes me mad. I bought a RRA rifle back in 2012. I thought it was great that they were living in the same liberal hell hole that I was living in. They seemed like a freedom loving company that supported the right for people to do what they had rights to do. NOW all I can think is SHAME ON YOU!!!!!!

    1. avatar ScottsBad says:

      Better sell that RRA while you still can.

  69. avatar Mike says:

    This story is libel.
    If truth about guns knows what’s good for them, they’ll be taking this story down and apologizing publicly for spreading untrue assumptions.

    1. avatar Robert Farago says:

      We stand by our story.

      1. avatar Mikial says:

        Robert, and we, the honest and dedicated advocates of the 2A and gun owners stand by TTAG in this.

        I buy and shoot a lot of guns, and this includes SA models, but I have put them on notice that I will never buy another unless they make this right. Their entire C Suite should resign and they need to prove themselves. The XD and Saint are good guns, but they really aren’t all that different from a lot of other good guns on the market. We can live without them much better than they can live with out us.

        1. avatar JDC says:

          Well said, sir. Well said.

        2. avatar ScottsBad says:

          Great comment, but I don’t think it is enough. The company SHOULD be boycotted even if they shuffle management. RRA should be punished too.

    2. avatar ScottsBad says:

      All evidence to the contrary? I say boycott both RRA and Sprinfield until they get sold off to someone who cares about gun owners.

  70. avatar TrueBornSonofLiberty says:

    Except they are both under different ownership today. S&W was owned by a British company who were forced to sell their company for pennies on the dollar. After Bill Ruger died, Ruger also dramatically changed direction. Both companies are stalwart defenders of 2A rights and aren’t in the habit of heavily funding Bloomberg puppet, anti gun politicians, as has been discovered of both SA and RRA. That alone is enough to put them out of business.

  71. avatar JD says:

    It is the fault of the people in Illinois. They keep voting for F#$%ing Democrats. An American voting for a Democrat
    is like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders. Sooner or later they are going to destroy you. They hate freedom and absolutely love all powerful Government. Until we destroy that party America will continue to be destroyed from within.

  72. avatar ScottsBad says:

    Does anyone really buy RRA’s BS, “We didn’t know”? No lobbyist will take a position without their client’s approval, because THE CLIENT PAYS THE LOBBYIST’S SALARY. AND everyone that the lobbyist represents must be in agreement. So Rock River Arm’s story is complete crap and a bald faced LIE on the order of, “I did not have sex with that women…”.

    RRA and Springfield can suck my dong, they will never get a penny from me. Those bastards.

    I know people who continue to not buy Ruger even after his kids made up for the old man’s traitorous ways. This is going to be really bad for RRA and Springfield.

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