Quislings at Springfield Armory Rock River Arms Illinois Gun Dealer Licensing IFMA

Earlier today, the Illinois State Senate passed bill SB-1657 by a one-vote margin. While its prospects are still unsure in the House, if signed by Governor Bruce Rauner, the new law will mandate state licensing for all Illinois gun dealers. It will also restrict all others in Illinois to nine firearm transfers per year.

The lobbyist for the Illinois Firearms Manufacturers Association (IFMA), Jay Keller, traded that group’s opposition to the bill in exchange for a carve-out, removing Prairie State firearms manufacturers from the licensing requirements.

Two companies provide the bulk of the funding for IFMA: Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms.

To be clear, the original version of SB-1657 did not exempt manufacturers from the licensing regulations. At the time, Jay Keller and IFMA opposed it.

At a March Senate hearing, however, Keller stated that IFMA would drop its opposition to SB-1657 and go neutral if legislators gave the state’s gun makers a pass. State Senator Don Harmon delivered on his end of the deal with an amendment exempting big box stores and manufacturers from this scheme.

With that amendment, IFMA dropped its opposition to the bill, going neutral on the witness slip. That serves as a very public position on a bill in Illinois politics.

The bill then sailed through Committee. From there it went to the Senate floor, where it passed by the aforementioned one vote margin (note: at least 30 “yes” votes are required for a bill to pass in the Illinois Senate).

I asked both Springfield and Rock River for comment on the then-pending deal with anti-gun legislators. Neither had any comment. Less than an hour ago, Springfield CEO Dennis Reese issued a statement about the IFRA capitulation. We will be publishing that statement in a few minutes in a following post (you can read it here).

Springfield Armory and Rock River’s decision to cut a deal on licensing in Illinois — enabling the antis’ desire to control FFL dealer sales — is a dangerous gamble. As we pointed out in our Question of the Day, Smith & Wesson and Ruger paid an enormous price when they sacrificed gun rights on the altar of government “cooperation.”

Will there be a similar consumer backlash here, or will The People of the Gun view this as a minor accommodation? We’ll see how this plays in the court of public opinion.

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149 Responses to Springfield Armory, Rock River Arms Trade Opposition to Illinois FFL Licensing Scheme for Carve-Out

  1. It’s not as bad as catering to the Feds or an assault weapon ban but they need to stand united with gun owners nation wide. You know, their customers.

    • Actually it is a back door ban on IL. gunshows.
      99% of FFL’s at gunshows fall under those FFL’s that are NOT exempt.
      By go after small gun shops and home based FFL’s to comply.
      Many will just quit and give up their FFL’s rather than comply to extortion.
      Thus, the death toll to IL guns hows will follow.
      Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms can KMA for being
      turncoats for their profit. I see a major state wide boycott for them now!
      Maybe a national one as word gets out.

      • It’s already started, I placed an order today with my FFL today for a Springfield EPM4 Contour Carry, I will cancel that order Monday morning…..

        • Amen Russell, Amen!
          I was interested in the xdm and xde and the M1A was on my list for this upcoming year but I will NOT be buying any of these! Anyone who makes any excuses for these bastard companies is in cahoots, either consciously or subconsciously with the socio-communistic, ultra libtarded, pro homosexual, baby murdering, anti white, anti American, pro pedophilia cocklicking scumbags!
          Disagree? Then you are the above mentioned filth!
          All we have complete and utter free control of in this world is our INTEGRITY! How we all can have an impact on these traitorous ball sweat drinking asses is by not purchasing any of their products! Support Spikes Tactical, BCM, Beretta etc… I know for a fact that Spikes WILL NOT sell or provide to any state or federal agencies where the civilians are prohibited from owning the same item! Support these guys!
          Want a new AR or striker handgun and are enamored with the options that come with the Saint and the extra mags and accessories that come with the XD and 1911 lines? DO NOT PURCHASE! If the need to own one is too great then BUY USED! Make damn sure none of your dollars goes to these scumbags!
          Ok… I’m off my soapbox… Sorry for the outburst but damn this crap really gets to me! I really hope Rob Leatham will show us he still has integrity and leaves Springfield Armory! I respect him and expect him to do the right thing.
          What about you guys?

      • Word is getting out and gun owners across the nation will be boycotting and selling off the stock they already own.

      • Totally agree. It amazes me that most of these people bashing Springfield probably own a Smith and Wesson. I refuse to own the latter given their shady history and quite frankly their inability to get the fuck out of MA after Maura Healey spit right in their face. They are a gutless company.

  2. Somewhere in Illinois tonight the devil is dancing his jig. The only places in our nation where the Bloomberg movement succeeds are places that are most likely to succumb to that communist nonsense in the first place. I hope this bill fails miserably but I’m not going to hold my breath these days for freedom to succeed in the Land of Lincoln / State of Chicago.

    • You are probably right, the anti-gunners ARE dancing. They get all the kitchen table FFLs and gun shows out of business. AND with the looming boycotts of these 2 companies, both face prospects of going under. You CAN NOT trust the antigun lobby, EVER. They never have any best interests in mind other than their own. Springfield and RRA were so stupid to play into this. I bet the atigunners offered it knowing it would spark backlash. Sneaky bast@rds just shut down gun shows, small FFLs, and 2 manufactures potentially

    • I really wanted an EMP. Guess I’ll be buying another Browning Hi-Power instead! I live in IL, work in LE, and cannot believe the stb in the back from these two companies! I know they have 49 other states to sell to, but I’ll never purchase another SA or RRA. Been to both of their factories too! Ridiculously sad they’d stab their employees in the back too…

      • Buy a CZ P-01 or P-07… Best 9mm platform on the market. Sadly I was really looking forward to SA’s 10mm XD(m), looks like it won’t be joining the 10mm collection now though…. Bad move SPringfield, REALLY bad move.

    • Yes, it taught them that Ruger and S&W survived and continue to profit. We may call it backstabbing or shortsighted or whatever, but the bottom line is still the bottom line.

      • S&W did not survive. Their sales plummeted because of the boycott, they were purchased by another company and the team that initiated the Clinton lock was fired. S&W today is a totally different company and they have no interest wading back into political waters (at least, not anything resembling anti-2A, they have actually since supported gun owners in MA by coming to testify against antigun legislation at the state house).

      • Ruger did a complete 180 after Bill Ruger assumed dirt temperature.

        They’re now a major producer of AR platform rifles, they’ve brought out large capacity magazines for their guns that didn’t have them, and dumped the policy that restricted sales of “large capacity” magazines for the Mini-14. etc, under Bill Ruger’s leadership

      • In my opinion, Springfield mainly offers products that are similar to other manufactures leaving alternatives. Ruger and Smith have items they produce that are unique to them or far above in quality to competitors that jept their sales going. I am not overly impressed with Springfield’s QA. Ithink Springfield could feel it worse than Ruger and Smith if enough people decide to shop other brands for a couple years.

  3. Exempting Big Box retailers but not small businesses from this proposed state FFL scheme? I would hope that this would instantly fail any court challenge. (hope, not expect)

    • You beat me to it. This was exactly my first thought. If all are equal before the law, why are small businesses expected to comply with onerous licensing while their big box counterparts do not? The reality is, the big box stores can better endure the costs of compliance. Many small businesses may not be able to bear the costs at all and will go out of business. I’m sure that’s a feature, not a bug, but they’ll never admit it.

      • Simple, small businesses are harder for the socialists politicians to squeeze and control to their will. Big box stores have no real morals so a politician coming over and saying you’ll cooperate with my plan or I’ll write up legislation to make you life tough is pretty good strategy

        Also easier to get campaign contributions from large corporations instead of small family owned businesses

        • Exactly right.. they can try and snuff out all the mom and pops just like piece of shit Walmart did.. fuckm

    • I was just thinking that too.
      If the bill passed with no carve-outs, it would have applied equally to everyone. In it’s current form, it clearly exempts some – thus is not a fair law and unlikely to stand up in court. I can’t help but wonder if that wasn’t Rock River and Springfield’s plan all along… they might be more clever than we think.

      • So you’re thinking that they basically created this bill to trick the liberals into working on something that wouldn’t hold up in court instead of something else? If that’s what happened, that’s pretty smart lol.

    • Exactly. We’ve seen what happens to smaller dealers when the government imposes unrealistic requirements on them. We’ve seen it in San Fran, and to a less extent I’ve seen it first hand here in Seattle.
      Imagine the success an excellent manufacturer would have after successfully standing up to the government, and pushing to bring more freedom to their customers. Instead as many large companies experience, these short term solutions usually bring long term headaches. Still they go for it be caused they care more about risk than right. Which they may continue to engage in, while all of us decide against purchasing from them.

    • Except that this is Liberal Democrat Chicago run Illinois. Das Party runs what goes on in this bankruptcy in progress.

  4. Well I know who to a NEVER buy a gun from. Oh and I’ve got a big mouth and I’ll publicize the actions of quislings…😡

    • You have it in it’s simplest form. Don’t buy their stuff. Let everyone know where you stand and why you won’t
      patronize these companies. Also, it may send a message for us to let the TV shows and magazines that we
      will boycott them also if they stay in bed with these companies.

  5. “It will also restrict all non-FFL dealers to nine firearm transfers per year…”

    Hello, Commerce Clause?

  6. No corporation can be trusted, the government model applied to business. Collusive, incestious and nepotistic by nature. Collectivism is the evil. All group will devolve into unnecessary bullshit over time. Government, NRA, churches etc. I now go back to my corporate job, buying corporate stuff. Damn it, hypocrisy is the evil, it is I.

  7. Well, I just put two more firearm companies on my list, right next to Troy, S&W & Hexmag. H&K and Walther are WAY better firearms than Springfield and Stag arms has always made better quality lefty MSRs for a better price anyhow.
    File under will buy used if cheap.

    • I remember everything but Hexmag…what did they do? I seem to remember some discussion on Ar15.com but forgot.

      • The owner’s brother designed the original magazine on his own initiative and the business was started around that original design & product. The owner then proceeded to screw his own brother out of any part of the business.

  8. Thanks Springfield. Ditto Rock River.

    I have been following this for weeks now. Sen. Don Harmon needed the IFMA group to drop its opposition to get a vote or two. Looks like he got it from Jay Keller and IFMA.

    Also, non-dealers in Illinois is everyone! This isn’t even one gun a month! And all thanks to these two companies dropping their opposition to the bill.

    Talk about short sighted.

    They just effed not only gun owners in Il, but their dealers too!

  9. Springfield and Rock River have sold their last firearms into Iowa, if this Iowan has anything to say about it.

  10. I never really considered a RRA since their handguards look like they are from the 1980s but I was looking at the TRPs….now i think i will go with a CZ 1911 instead. I also just sent this link to a ton of friends. Gun owners do have long memories. Case in point, i will not buy any SW until they get rid of the Clinton hole.

  11. I was deciding between a SA XDM and M&P Shield. By chance I went with the Shield for reasons I was starting to second guess. Not regretting the choice now.

    http://ilga.gov/legislation/fulltext.asp?DocName=10000SB1657&GA=100&SessionId=91&DocTypeId=SB&LegID=104404&DocNum=1657&GAID=14&Session=

    I’ll be the first to admit I’m not a politics follower,but whats with the emergency rules clause at the end? Leaving their door partially open for future expansion?

    Passing by one vote – that makes me nervous in that should Gov Rauner veto it, ‘the boys(and girls)’ could have override momentum.

    • re a Governor override…while the Senate needed 30 votes to pass the bill, 36 votes are needed for a veto override

      • Yeah don’t encourage the seven paid politicians to veto hold them accountable like the company. Not necessarily move out but broaden the future of law in general. Don’t expect the small time business to thrive in a “pay your way” consul period. We are talking military producers for decades. Sway should NEVER exceed consumer. As a FFL WHOLESALER I’ve talked many out of a AR-556 and ruger firearms excludinding “older models” with a passion in less than two mins literal tile for the consumer ” SHORTCOMINGS” for many reasons. Get your shit together and I might “market” your guns for all the consumers (even my customers) involved. Till then fuck you who bow down paid or not I WONT LET A USED GUN pass on my watch as a whole.

  12. I own two Springfield firearms and was literally shopping for a 3rd one last night.
    I have touted the M1-A and XD-m to others for many years.
    Well, I won’t be endorsing or buying anymore Springfield products and those that I have will stay in my safe.

  13. Who needs them?

    A striker fired pistol? There are a million others.
    An M1a? Niche product.
    1911 style pistol? That’s never been done before!
    An entry level AR-15? The forearm that melts off is a handy feature.
    And now an expensive HiPoint with a hammer.

    Lol.

    F them.

  14. So Illinois wants to further restrict a RIGHT, A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT, of law abiding people, while they still fail to endorse the laws that are already in place. AND they still let the criminals go free with little to no reprecutions for their illegal actions. Sounds about right for a bastion of ultra liberal bottom feeders, I can hardly wait for the day that I can put this cesspool in my rearview mirror for good.

  15. ALL ILLINOIS RESIDENTS
    ALL ILLINOIS RESIDENTS

    https://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactus/Pages/VoiceAnOpinion.aspx

    ALL ILLINOIS RESIDENTS
    ALL ILLINOIS RESIDENTS

    Please write to Governor Rauner and voice your opposition to this bill. Include the designation of the bill (SB1657), your opposition, and maybe a short reason why. Remember to be courteous, polite, and articulate. Avoid spelling and grammar errors, make no threats (except to withhold votes and political support), and state your position clearly.

    ALL ILLINOIS RESIDENTS
    ALL ILLINOIS RESIDENTS

  16. It’s like Neville Chamberlain waving a piece of paper saying appeasement works. These two companies are run by morons. Anti 2nd amendment people are fascists and appeasement never works with fascists.

    • Appeasement always works with fascists and socialists. You keep bending to their demands until they throw you in prison for being the last people in the country not in prison

  17. I find it strange that there is so much hate toward smith and Wesson when all they did was add a lock to prevent being sued and ruined like colt. Yet ruger helped make the bill with bill Clinton. It was old man ruger who had the notion no civilian should ever have more than 10 rd mags notice how his guns were exempt from the ban? Ruger never produced civilian high capacity mags until another company bought them and anyone with the last name ruger stopped running the company. For RRA that was a dumb move with how many AR manufacturers are out there there is no reason to get one now.

    • The reason people still have such animosity toward S&W is that they added a built-in failure feature to appease the Clinton cartel, but refuse to even offer a single J-frame without the Hillary hole, even though countless dealers and consumers have been practically begging for one for years.
      I won’t own one. Not because its ugly (and it is) but because it has been proven that the more powerful self defense loads can activate the lock during firing. That is unacceptable in a self defense pistol, period. I DO have my grandfathers early 60s model 19 and it still shoots better than any non-performance center smith made today, and I have a early model 42 that is the most accurate pistol ive ever shot…and until they at least offer a model without the hillary hole, they’ll be my last.

    • My hatred towards S and W is their refusal to leave MA and financially punish Maura Healey and her communist regime.

    • Bill Ruger was a FUD and so was S&W. Period. However, in 2002, Ruger’s son took over and that changed. Ruger started providing modern magazines etc. They and S&W have been at the forefront going after laws propped up by the gun ban lobby. On another note, Colt didn’t want to sell AR’s to the public in the 80s and 90s.

  18. As a dealer in Illinois this is a stab in the back from these manufacturers, and it hurts me to say this as the Springfield XD-S pistols are one of my best sellers (and I personally own an M1-A). With the margins for firearms being as thin as they are, and being a smaller dealer, this law pretty much puts me out of business or out of the state (something I’ve never seriously considered until today). Either way, I won’t be stocking these 2 manufacturers products for sale any longer unless they flip their stance on this to defeat it in the IL House. I am not going to help the profit of a company that is willing to throw me under the bus to save themselves. I know I would be fighting to stop a bill that was under consideration to put them out of business as we are in this fight together.

    • Best of luck to you, your success is our success and don’t let these spineless corporate types profit off selling you out without a fight.

      If you ever get tired of the fight we are glad to welcome you to set up shop in any of the free states.

  19. I will never EVER buy another product from either of them again. You are officially DEAD to me. Scumbags have sold out. Remember when Colt sold out? Good luck, scumbags.

  20. @Springfield_Inc
    @Rock_River_Arms
    @GovRauner

    Publicly shame these companies, and let the Governor know of your opposition.

  21. More anti-gun B.S.
    South Carolina used to license gun dealers at $50/year.
    Then they repealed it a couple or 3 years ago, saying the FFL was good enough.
    Now you got a Communist State wanting to do the same to gun dealers.
    They’ll do anything to drive them out.

  22. And the Saint was just starting to look good to me. Oh well. It’s not like there aren’t other AR’s on the market.

  23. I’m disappointed that Springfield Armory caved in their opposition of this bill, but I won’t be boycotting them for it. That said, most of you shop or have spent money at places, or use, or watch: Google, Amazon, Starbucks, Target, ABC/CBS major networks, have a Facebook/Instagram/Twitter account, use Youtube, AMC/Cinemark, NFL, Walgreens, Costco, watch movies, etc., etc. All of these companies and many other major national brands actively participate in the fight against gun rights, are anti-gun, or at least donate to anti-gun movements, yet you still spend money on their products or use their site! Many of you are massive hypocrites for claiming you won’t spend a dime on a new Springfield or RRA product but continue to spend money at those places. What’s the point in boycotting SA or RRA, if you still use Amazon, Facebook, or go to Target?

    • Last I heard none of those companies manufacture or sell firearms. When people in the industry sell out it is a bit different.

      The odds that we can make an impact on these gun companies is a lot better than the odds we will make a dent in Target’s profits.

    • You can always count on a Quisling to make excuses and try to drag everyone else down to his level.

      Eat a bowl of horsecocks, traitor.

    • Couldn’t have said it better. If you boycotted every company that did something you disagreed with politically, you’d stay home and starve, never watch TV or get on the internet. I have an XDS and a Saint and will continue to shoot both every weekend and will probably buy the new XD-E when it comes out.

      Companies trying to survive in Illinois are damned if they do and damned if they don’t. Uprooting and moving the business like Magpul did in Colorado is expensive, but it does make a statement. I’m glad Magpul was able to do it. Maybe Springfield isn’t.

      • BS. To START with putting anything on Fakebook is the mark of a moron with too much idle time. There are many viable alternatives to giggle. Ignore the bastards.

  24. I was watching for a good price on a Springfield XD or XDM as my next centerfire purchase. No way now. I will never buy a Springfield product!

  25. Like all corporation’s who would sell their own mother’s welfare if it improved or unhindered their bottom line! they want no restrictions on them selves but screw the little guy! {us the people on the deplorable side of the list) as our Commie, Muslim ,and Illegal Aliens loving; left wing twisted sisters think and do, especially the Demon-erratic Party is more than willing too destroy the Fabric of freedom for their control only, Who should be vigorously exercised from America!

  26. I’ve spent the past 2 months looking at single-stack 9s. I’d narrowed it down to the XDS-9 4.0 or the Range Officer Compact in 9mm. I’d planned to buy in May. After this shenanigans, I’m looking back at the Colt Defender 9mm and the SIG offerings (P239, P225).

    To hell with Springfield.

  27. Where’s the outrage towards the slimy politicians who endorsed, supported and promoted this idiotic legislation?
    Lots of bombastic vitriol targeting Springfield and Rock River though.
    By creating a carve-out they’ve engineered a legal trap that will provide any astute lawyer with the means to overturn the entire piece of legislation. Crazy like a fox?
    Scream all you want about SA & RR – ignoring the root cause will just get you more of the same.
    Better put some of that righteous energy into removing these elitist idiots from the Illinois legislature and replacing them with pro-freedom, pro-Second Amendment candidates.
    Cut ’em off at the knees.

    • Problem is, elections don’t happen today (things slowly seem to be coming around in IL but it is definitely a slow process) and the legal process could take a decade to overturn it. My business, and many others fighting for the same rights we all want, will be dead in the water long before then. Leaving them a carve out just saved themselves while putting smaller dealers like myself out of business. Especially since this passed by only 1 vote, having IFMA in opposition to the bill could have kept this from ever getting out of the Senate. I’m sorry, but I’m not going to promote the products of companies that won’t stand up for my company and hundreds of others in the state when we get attacked as a whole and they leave the fight as soon as they are only picking on the smaller guys. I know I’d be contacting my Rep and Senator the same way I am for this bill and have for many others (my Senator did vote against it and I know my Rep will as well), even those that wouldn’t directly affect my company but would affect my manufacturers, distributors, and customers. We are on the same side and they abandoned us to save themselves.

  28. Wow what could they have possibly been thinking? Did they really think that a carveout on FFL rules just in Illinois would get them more sales than they are going to lose NATIONWIDE through supporting this measure!?

    Hell, people like me who live in Illinois should be more mad than anyone else, this impacts our ability to buy guns at decent prices! Since there are so many restrictions on gun shops and ranges in Chicago and the nearby jurisdictions, there are very few, and their prices are VERY HIGH. Typical LGS prices anywhere within 40 miles of Chicago are MSRP or even higher. The range I go to tries to sell Glocks for $50 OVER MSRP.

    Naturally, I’ve only ever bought through FFLs.

    • Friend, I feel for your situation. You know there are much better states to live in than Illinois. States with better weather, less violent crime, better quality of life, better public and private schools, etc.

  29. So talked with the owner of RRA at the show today. He emphatically said they do not support the bill.

    • They didn’t support it…they just didn’t oppose it either. If he really feels that way he needs to talk to the lobbyist representing his company and SA as they made a pretty big statement filing the witness slip that their association no longer opposes it.

  30. You reactionaries need to settle down and wait. Nobody has any idea what goes on in these backroom deals. This _could_ be a total sellout, which I doubt — or it could be brilliant maneuvering. It is still possible that everyone knows the House will defeat the bill and this is all just posturing and optics. It is also possible this bill has now been doomed by the carveout in the House, or later in a court challenge. There are still too many ways this bill can go down to defeat before assuming it’s a complete sellout.
    Politics is messy. And sometimes the “sellouts” aren’t really selling out, they are playing the long game. Just settle down and see. If it passes with no challenge, then hate on SA and RR all you want.

  31. pril 28, 2017 at 11:21

    I’m disappointed that Springfield Armory caved in their opposition of this bill, but I won’t be boycotting them for it. That said, most of you shop or have spent money at places, or use, or watch: Google, Amazon, Starbucks, Target, ABC/CBS major networks, have a Facebook/Instagram/Twitter account, use Youtube, AMC/Cinemark, NFL, Walgreens, Costco, watch movies, etc., etc. All of these companies and many other major national brands actively participate in the fight against gun rights, are anti-gun, or at least donate to anti-gun movements, yet you still spend money on their products or use their site! Many of you are massive hypocrites for claiming you won’t spend a dime on a new Springfield or RRA product but continue to spend money at those places. What’s the point in boycotting SA or RRA, if you still use Amazon, Facebook, or go to Target?

    You have missed the point, YOU HAVE TO DRAW THE LINE SOMEWHERE, these are GUN MANUFACTURING COMPANIES, FORMER ALLIES if you will, FORMER Loyal brothers, who have STABBED GUN OWNERS, FFL Dealers in the BACK!!!!!

    said, most of you shop or have spent money at places, or use, or watch: Google, Amazon, Starbucks, Target, ABC/CBS major networks, have a Facebook/Instagram/Twitter account, use Youtube, AMC/Cinemark, NFL, Walgreens, Costco, watch movies, etc..

    WHAT THE HELL, Do these companies MANUFACTURE GUNS?
    CLAIM TO SUPPORT GUN OWNERS, who has a market based on GUN BUYING/PURCHASING?
    HELL NO!!!!

    SA, RRA. DO!!! THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE!!!!!!!!!!!

    • That is my exact sentiment. Yeah, a lot of these companies have either stayed neutral in the gun rights debate or have shown some support for the anti-gun side. But I don’t expect them to support our position as they are not in the firearms industry and while I try to support a pro-gun company over an anti-gun company when I can that isn’t always an option. SA and RRA have been in the same fight with us in IL for years, but once they got exempted from the law, they pulled their opposition to a bill that passed by 1 vote, and threw the rest of us to the curb to fend for ourselves, even though we’ve been helping to defend them and their right to do business in the state for years.

  32. Springfield, you are dead to me. Dennis Reese, I am not sure how you sleep at night. You have no honor. Shame on you.

  33. I won’t support companies whose values don’t line up with mine. Sorry to say this but I will be looking at trading in my XD for a Ruger American this weekend.

  34. I live in Illinois and I will be selling my Springfield products mil spec 1911 and Mia loaded and my rock river national match products for a Fulton armory and Colts products as I did when I owned a 686 when Smith and Wesson sold out to Bill Clinton years ago

  35. Springfield and RRA should have done (or threatened) what Beretta did to Maryland. This “compromise” is self-serving and still anti-2A. Shame on all involved.

  36. It seems to me that holding these two manufacturers responsible for a position adopted by the trade organization is like holding US responsible for everything the UN does. Maybe right, maybe wrong. Let’s see if they step up.

    • Talk about apples and oranges!
      It’s the ILLINOIS Firearms Mgf Assoc !!!!
      How many frickin gun makers do you think there are in Illinois?
      TWO.

    • It’s pretty clear that you did not comprehend the article or some of the important messages posted.

  37. Never cared for their low quality firearms and now I’m completely convinced they suck even more.

  38. I love my Sig Sauer’s P225, p226 Legion, P220 Equinox, sp2022, 320’s, Glocks 19,27,29,30. SA I had a mod2 40, (sold it) and carry my Glock 27.
    You want a good firearm, Sigs, Glock..

  39. I love my Sig Sauer’s P225, p226 Legion, P220 Equinox, sp2022, 320’s, Glocks 19,27,29,30. SA I had a mod2 40, (sold it) and carry my Glock 27.
    You want a good firearm, Sigs, Glock..

  40. Springfield and Rock River just committed manufacturer suicide. This is a stain that I hope never washes off in return leading to eventual bankruptcy. You betrayed the very foundation of what makes you, the American people. As you sow, so shall you reap.

  41. Wow, the Chicago shooting and murder rate just has to drop by at least 50% after this important new law passed !! The liberatards are pleased with themselves over this new law.

    The NRA should have something to publicly say about the turncoat manufacturers that make up the manufacturer’s association. But the NRA is too busy raising hundreds of millions of dollars and doesn’t have time for anything else.

  42. I used to like Springfield Armory and for a while I was considering one of their M1A’s but now SCREW EM .
    Thanks Springfield armory , you just sold me on a PTR 91 , way to become the next Bill Ruger …
    The only difference is with Bill long dead Ruger now is a good upstanding pro constitution / pro bill of rights business which will get my money… You never will again Springfield , nor will you Rock River Arms.

    Your pathetic sellout and greed will cost you , and to be honest as much as I am loathe to lose companies in the industry , we will be much better off without the lot of you.
    I hope this poor decision gets noticed by anyone and everyone whom wants to purchase a firearm and I hope it destroys you both fiscally.

  43. It should be announced over the loud speakers at the NRA convention and they should have been kicked out.

  44. Loved Springfield so much own almost 1 of everything they have made, almost got a crosscannon with a don’t tread on me snake coiled, glad I didn’t Won’t buy another Springfield 1777-2017 RIP

  45. this event like so many others this past 17 years It speaks to a larger problem —– take a look at history of the rise in the number of state and national and regional associations and compare as a time line and you will see these so called associations are the root cause of erosion of rights the rise of illegal acts by city county state and fed any reasonable man can — you can name a bribe an association fee and its still a bribe —

  46. Just picked up two used Springfields………… XD Mod2 Tactical and a 1911 V16 Longslide,,,,,,,,, Think that will conclude my further purchase of Springfields. This is going to be interesting to see the backlash.

  47. Funny, just peeked in over on the Springfield Forum and only 1 post with 0 replys.
    Springfield must have thought their customer base was solid enough that it wouldn’t matter.
    Hey Springfield nobody coming to your defense.

  48. As a female NRA pistol instructor I have grown to love my 9mm Range officer. I often let students and others shoot it so they can gain confidence in their skills. That won’t happen again. I have some great Walther’s they can shoot.

    Springfield and Rock River will see a huge dent in their sales. I own three and husband owns one. I will definitely not be buying from Springfield or Rock River River. The fact that they dropped their opposition to SB1657 once they got their exception says a lot about their motivation. It isn’t customers they care about.

    I also question the ISRA’s email today (12:03 am) regarding this position change. In it they list three victims of SB 1657. Number three no longer applied when that email was sent.
    “Victim #3 – Illinois Firearm Manufacturers. Under the original version of the Senate bill, firearm manufacturers would have to comply with the licensing bill as well. The costs to manufacturers would be prohibitive and they would have to move out of state or shut down.”

    I wonder why that correction hadn’t been made? It in fact side steps it all together. IFAM aren’t victims now, in fact they will profit from this. We are now the victims of the IFMA. Let’s make sure that they don’t profit from this change in position. There are many good gun manufacturers out there.

    Why was that o

  49. The only reason the bill only got 30 votes is because that is all that was needed. Had it needed 45, it would have gotten exactly 45. The people voting against it who were Democrats were probably up for reelection soon and wanted to act like they are pro 2nd Amendment. Truth is, they would have voted for the bill had their votes been needed for it to pass. Very calculated.

  50. Everyone knows you don’t shit where sleep. Springfield and Rock River are going to learn a very hard lesson. When their sales dry up and shops pull their inventory and send them back.

  51. Rats, I really really really like my Xd and was thinking of getting another in the wretched Kommieforniastan, this puts a bit of a damper on that brilliant idea. f’m

  52. Jay Keller stated in an Illinois Senate committee in March that the IFMA would drop their opposition to the bill if manufacturers were exempted.

    Why weren’t people raising hell then ?

  53. Where is the evidence that either Springfield or RRA have a ongoing relationship with the lobbying group, yes they donated money to them in 2014, have they continued to support this group who does not even have a website available. Has anyone got proof that these companies supported the IFMA more recently or even agreed with every decision. I know a lot of people have has issues with the NRA but retain membership. Honestly if it was a mutual decision between SA, RRA, and the IFMA to go neutral because the bill no longer involved them directly it is a bad thing. It is easy to say these companies should relocate but how many employees and families would find hard times if their employer moved. I think everyone needs more information before having knee jerk reactions.

    • Your words of logic and reasoning will fall deaf ears with the knee jerk responders. There is no proof of anything that SA or RRA did anything besides give money to a lobbying group 3 years ago. It’s unclear how much influence those companies exercised with the IMFA. TTAG has yet to show proof of that.

  54. However, not one peep when S&W, Ruger, Colt, and Remingotn sold us out in 1989, 1994, and 2006. You can thank these companies for supporting:

    The Chinese and Russian AK bans
    The Chinese Ammo bans
    The barrel bans
    The mag bans
    The ITAR bullsh_t

  55. So….. I am just wondering you all that have officially decided that Springfield Armory, Rock River, and others are now in bed with the devil in Illinois and plan to never own a firearm from these companies. Do any of you own a Smith & Wesson? A Ruger? Colt, (most of whose workers have been members of the UAW for some time, and we know how conservative that group is)? What other guns do you own that have in any way been affiliated with a company that has not supported guns? Fair question I think.

    Also, while I am already busy painting enemy of gun rights on my forehead, figured I would state an observation. It appears the carve out would exempt manufacturers and big box stores. Does this mean that someone in Illinois would be able to buy there tenth gun at one of these stores? If so then Springfield might have just taken a bill they deemed to be going to pass regardless of what they did and made it so as not to cripple themselves as well as a loophole for Illinois gun buyers.

    I will ask for forgiveness ahead of time for my postulation.

  56. Gun Lovers,

    Lets see what the people of Illinois does. They and all of us need to the the Gun Companies know we will not stand for this, and we will show our un-approving attitude via the pocketbook. The citizens of the State need to contact their State reps to yell out loud and clear. They and we need to face our opinion across the social media “talk” sites. This bill will fail if we yell loud and long enough! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

  57. I’m hearing a lot of talk about boycotting Springfield Armory and Rock River as if they committed a crime. Both companies fought hard against similar bill last year and the year before that again the year before that only defeating it every time by a small margin. Another bill surfaces this year by the same socialist liberal progressive politicians and lost by a small margin as well. The same state electoral votes went to Hilary Clinton.

    Everyone assumes Springfield Armory and Rock River sold out there customers and dealers, which is absolutely insane idea and without real evidences presented to us. Now people want to punish (boycott) our allies Springfield Armory and Rock River which in my eye’s is a traitor’s position to the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution of the United States. Shame on all of you for hiding in Pro-gun sheep cloths…!

    Our real fight is with the Socialist Liberal Democratic Progressive Party, RINOs, and there supporters, not our firearm industry Springfield Armory and Rock River who have suffered a tremendous defeat. If your livelihood was hanging by a thread with all of your employees jobs dangling by the same thread and a scumbag politician held “your gun” to your head how could you not choose the lesser of two evils…?

    Every damn one of you boycotters have missed the real target and every socialist liberal progressive are making fools of all of you…! And you have earned this RINO reputation based on pure blind ignorance…, @$$*%#&s.

    • Exactly! Show me proof that Springfield or RRA voted in favor of the bill, voiced support for the bill or they gave the IMFA a penny since 2014. This article is bait to get gun owners riled up and at least 90% of gun ownerd are buying it hook line and sinker.

    • Springfield Armory does not support this bill and says trade association IFMA struck the deal without their okay.

      From Springfield Armory

      Springfield Armory has always fought hand-in-hand with the NRA, NSSF, ISRA and many others for legislation that fiercely protects the Second Amendment, individual rights and the industry as a whole. Our fight continues today as some members of the Illinois legislature are pushing to overregulate the industry through Gun Dealer Licensing Act (SB1657).

      “At the time of my initial statement to the media, I was ill-informed of the ramifications of this bill and its detrimental effects to the Second Amendment, which I have personally fought to protect my entire life. I can tell you now, we at Springfield Armory are unequivocally 100 percent against this bill and will continue to work with the NRA and others to ensure that it is defeated,” said Dennis Reese, Chief Executive Officer, Springfield Armory.

      Springfield Armory, like Rock River Arms, was not aware of the actions taken by our trade association, IFMA, until after the fact. We take this situation very seriously and are looking into how this very unfortunate lapse in communication occurred.

      Springfield Armory has fought and defeated legislation like this in Illinois for the past 15 years. We are wholeheartedly against this bill and will fight to see it defeated as the unnecessary and harmful overreach that it is.

      http://blog.springfield-armory.com/springfield-armory-statement-regarding-gun-dealer-licensing-act-sb1657

      • Reggie you’re preaching to the choir when it comes to me but most of the people who took the bait are already saying that Springfield and Rock River are lying to cover their asses. People are buying TTAGs narrative as if it’s fact. The story should have been headlined RRA and Springfield Armory gave money to lobbying group 3 years ago and now aforementioned lobbying group drops opposition to senate bill.

  58. As with most news stories, after the initial dust up and excitement, the truth starts to filter through.

    Sounds like the IFMA lobbyists acted without the okay of Springfield Armory or Rock River Arms who have reaffirmed their 100% opposition to SB1657 as they have similar bills in the past.

    • What’s sad is there could be proof that SA and RRA didn’t do what was claimed and people will still believe they sold out.

  59. In light of the current controversy over Illinois SB-1657, and the hysteria of what occurred with Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms, I have taken a few days to ponder and reflect on the situation. My views are simply my views, and no one else’s. You may choose to disagree, and I am fine with that. First, this state is a disaster. Plain and simple, and undisputable. The severe economic woes of the state are the fault of the Chicago Political Machine and Democratic leadership that for many years has taken a “live now, pay later” attitude towards fiscal management. Yes, we currently have a Republican Governor. However, due to a democratically controlled congress, little gets done to fix things. There are too many politicians owing special favors and handouts. I am NOT anti-union. But I am pro fiscal management. This state has some of the highest paid employee’s of any state. How can a state that is basically bankrupt continue to offer the highest wages/benefits to its employee’s? Simple. By agreeing to pay more than you can afford, and waiting until the house of cards collapses. Then what? Well then, you start looking for other ways to collect money from your citizens.

    At that point, democratic politicians like to do a couple things. Steal money from Peter to pay Paul. Such as using money earmarked for pensions, etc. with the “promise” to repay the money. Which of course, never happens. So when that well runs dry, they try other methods. You know, like trying to extort money out of legal firearms owners, gun stores, FFL holders, and manufacturers. It’s not enough that the citizens of this god forsaken state have to pay for an FOID card, and then pay one of the highest state fee’s for a concealed carry permit. Now, some scumbag decides that the state could make lot’s of money by requiring citizen’s, FFL’s, and manufacturers to pay for a “state license” when they already pay for a federal license. On top of that, they add in restrictions of how many firearms transfers can be completed yearly per person. This horrible piece of garbage legislation is then put together and pushed through the Senate, and then then sent on to the House.

    Now enter a couple of our outstanding Illinois based firearms manufacturers. In order to fight these greedy, unscrupulous politicians and prevent them from further erosion of our 2nd Amendment Right, and unfairly applying taxation through “licensing”, they form a lobbying organization to fight such attacks. It should be noted that both of these companies are very involved in helping their communities with donations to charitable groups, etc. Both go out of their way to support their communities, employ citizens of the state, pay their taxes, and be great neighbors. Even in a state that clearly sends the “unwelcome” message from its Democratic leaders (I use that term loosely) that continually look for ways to make life difficult for them. Sometimes, these manufacturers simply throw up their hands, and move to a much friendlier and economically feasible state like Iowa. (Can you say, Les Baer?)

    So, this horrible piece of legislation is conveniently brought to a vote the same week as the NRA show? If you have never been to the NRA or Shot shows, these events are huge. What better time to plan an attack on a firearms manufacturer when you know their attention is diverted elsewhere? However, the job of the lobbyist (Jay Kelly) is to protect the interest of the manufacturer’s he represents. It’s his job to make decisions that not only benefit the manufacturer’s that he represents, but to also watch the back of FFL holders, and gun owners. Obviously, something went wrong here. However, who’s to blame? Is it the manufacturers for not realizing what was going on when they are paying someone to be their watchdog? Or, is it the watchdog (IFMA’s Jay Kelly) who agreed to a stipulation thinking that he was doing his part to protect his manufacturers, while neglecting to make sure he also had the backs of FFL’s and gun owners?

    I have read many very angry social media posts, screaming for the lynching of Rock River Arms and Springfield Armory. Clearly, placing blame on them for this bill passing the Senate. (Keep in mind, it would still have to clear the House and be signed by the Governor) I’ve also read the explanations from both Rock River Arms and Springfield Armory on how they were given incomplete or inaccurate information about this bill, and want to assure their customers and dealers alike that they are both 100% against passage of this legislation.

    So, the question boils down to this. Are we to believe these companies were either mislead or not properly advised on the situation, or do we believe that they are a “sell out” only interested in maximum profits and not interested in the welfare of their dealers and customers? For me, the answer is fairly simple. I am a customer of both companies, and a former FFL holder. I was doing business with Rock River Arms when they were literally operating out of their garage. I have also done business with Springfield Armory for many years. In these relationships, I have witnessed the unparalleled integrity and genuine concern for their employee’s, FFL holders, and customers alike. I simply refuse to believe that either of these companies would ever jeopardize their customers and dealers alike by “selling them out”. Some have argued that action to terminate the Mr. Kelly should have already taken place as a gesture of good faith. My caution here would be that doing so without some form of due process could be costly, and such things need to be done correctly in a timely manner. In closing, I suggest that everyone step back, and take a deep breath before jumping to conclusions and condoning the actions of these companies without complete information. Their explanation is genuine, in my opinion, and I will continue to support both of these companies. Let’s put the blame where it REALLY belongs, on the heads of liberal politicians that do not respect the 2nd Amendment, and are constantly pushing to make legal, responsible gun owners of this state pay for their fiscal transgressions. Thank you.

    • I would recommend everyone do their own research on this issue before calling for a ban on SA and RRA. Everyone is so quick to assume what they read as the truth, when it pushes the right buttons.

  60. banning springfield armory and rock river from my list of potenial firearm purchases. more over i will not support illinois state senators. they are all corrupt nazis & commies $$$

  61. I have been looking at a new springfield 9mm , but think I will look elsewhere now. I like doing business with companies that stand for my freedoms and gun rights, it appears Springfield and rock river will cave on our fundamental rights from now on, because that is what the anti gun liberals will require and both companies have proven they will cave.
    No more rock river or springfields in my future purchases.

  62. What am I missing? In the original bill, looks to have exempted manufacturers, for transfers to other dealers. I.e. under the Exemptions in the bill:

    (11) transfers by a person or entity who is licensed as a
    17 manufacturer of firearms under Section 923 of Title 18 of the
    18 United States Code to a person or entity who is licensed as a
    19 dealer or dealership under this Act, or to a person or entity
    20 who is licensed as a manufacturer, dealer, or importer of
    21 firearms under Section 923 of Title 18 of the United States
    22 Code; or

    The so-called SAI & RRA carve out exempts anyone that had a type 6, 7 or 10 FFL license as of April 1. I don’t see how SAI and RRA benefit much here. Do either of SAI or RRA selling firearms directly to the public? This seems to be a bigger benefit here to smaller shops that would have the type 7 license. I know a lot of table top ffls local to me do.

  63. Once I learned of this, I sold both of my Springfields and bought an H&K replacement. (As it turns out, the H&K is far superior anyway.) I would have considered the new XDE, but not now…never another Springfield for me! As far as the other companies listed in some of these comments that are also anti-Constitutional Rights…I boycott as many of them as possible. Those companies, like Springfield, that don’t support Americans and our Constitution, will never see another nickel of my money!

  64. I’m with the gun community on this all the way, but after much research, find no actual evidence in the bill or any of the amendments that show an exemption or carve out for RRA or SA. Please peruse this bill and paste text or a link for the portion that contains the carve out language. I think it is important to see it in writing to prove they are specifically called out as being exempt. I can see all the other evidence referred to above and in the other articles, just nothing in the bill itself. I am not a fanboy of either manufacturer and I am just as ticked as everybody else, just want to find the full truth >> http://ilga.gov/legislation/fulltext.asp?DocName=10000SB1657sam001&GA=100&SessionId=91&DocTypeId=SB&LegID=104404&DocNum=1657&GAID=14&Session=

    • Exactly the TTAG article speculated and ultimately did nothing to actually prove what the headline stated.

  65. I’m not from Illinois, but I see gun owners as one singular group nationwide, screw one of us you’re screwed us all. I will never own a Rock River or Springfield as long as I live there is no forgiveness where 2A is concerned.

  66. “Only Freedom loving critical thinkers need go further”
    SB1657 SPRINGFIELD ARMORY is a controlled opposition anti gun supporting whore waxing rich with the delicacies of the Beast itself . For it need not directly fornicate with the mother . For it would be considered the same whoring with the daughters or the subsidiaries of the beast system . I think it safe to assume that for a firearms company to give or any American . To recend even that of a single millimeter . Is no difference in a mile or in this case a kilometer . For one to even give these leftist, marxist, luciferians, the ground gain of one grain of sand . Is like unto adding leaven to dough . It grows, spreads & multiplies before your very eyes . You blink and like the frog in a pot . You will not even recognise that of what you once knew to be a God Given natural RIGHT .
    A THEORY OF ” PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE ” Between The State And a few Gun Exec’s – . I would also say to those firearms companies who bend to the will of the People’s Republics of the United States . Changing firearms to bend to the will of the whores and Slave States . is so very close to a boycotting action and I really lose respect for those who do it . For this example I will use the well known People’s Republic Of California . California say’s jump and the firearms industry say how high “THIS TIME ” key word being “THIS TIME” . No matter how many bullets they allow guns to receive at a given time or how many bullet buttons and switches and blockers etc . And I say ETC because it is like unto an annual or biannual cycle . Where in they convene because ” ok they have gotten complacent with the last restriction and they have stopped bitching about said restriction . And the fellows at the firearms co have told US the State controller’s that the market is fully saturated . So they ” the Gun co Exec’s and the State LEGISLATURE most likely discuss WHAT THE NEXT PHASE IN THE PLAN WILL BE WHERE IN THE BACK BENDING COMPANIES get to make money instead of investing in lobbying . They plan the next step in the disarmament experiment of the American citizenry . California itself is a huge petri dish . FOR ENSLAVEMENT . If the firearms industry would refuse to modify firearms to please the state . Then the citizenry would have no choice but to protest . So one has to wonder if the list of companies that bend over for the state . Aren’t really coordinating with the state . To as inch by inch acclimate the frog in the pot to it brand of firearms or GUN SERVITUDE . think about it people . They “the collaboration between the state and the gun co ‘s . Have collectively brainwashed the citizenry in the Slave state . To think they are winning by some freak invention work around . But in reality it was planned that way to make them believe they were winning something . The state get their one more inch and the citizen get to think they won when they lost . And will continue losing until they aren’t allowed to own one single solitary bullet . Not even one brass casing . I plan on doing extensive research to see which are the 2 main companies in the slave st markets . Also checking to see who is the trailblazer of the ” work around patents ” that have keep the Californian frogs in the pot for so long and the water is boiling . Following a trail of monetary gain, political contributions as well Cohesion and intermingling between slave St officials and firearm’s movers and shakers from admin marketing dept & distribution . And 30 will get you 10 ” pun intended” I believe that there in the collusion’s will be found .

  67. Springfield and rra lobbyist cut deal to screw over gun rights. research of any kind shows imfa has 1 employee.
    Imfa was created almost exclusively by Springfield and rra and they don’t know what a one man organization is doing ??
    Bs.
    Not another Springfield will poison my safe for a long time .

    • I love repeating myself link to this information you researched I’ve done research and there is nothing to suggest who was sold out who. No public statements from the two companies voicing support for the bill, no indication that the 2 companies made a payment to iMFA any other time then the one indicated in the article nothing. Please and this isn’t me saying your wrong how about instead of blanketly saying “research” which I have done provide a link or a source to back up what your saying.

  68. I agree,years ago 2000,i was going to buy a S&W 686,then they sold out to the Clinton Administration,haven’t even looked at their product line in17 years,Springfield,sold out Illinois firearms owners,as I just hope most comments are real and not a knee jerk reaction.Even today I say anyone who’s purchased an S&W product since 2000,is a piece of(SHIT)

    • Totally agree and what’s worse is that Smith continues to be pussies by not moving out of MA even after Healey’s incredible attack on gun rights. Disgusting.

  69. Reese wants you to believe the lobbyist did it and he did know. He was head of S.A. and he knew what he was doing. Have bought my last S.A. gun and will sell the 4 I have
    Sad that HIS greed is going to kill personal rights in Illinois Hope it was worth it caused you screwed a lot of people

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