Most American gun owners expect firearms manufacturers to support their right to keep and bear arms. If nothing else, the greater the restrictions on firearms freedoms, the fewer guns they’ll sell. And the fewer RKBA restrictions, the more guns they’ll sell. But it’s also a political thing: a statement that company and customer are on the same side. And woe betide a gunmaker who betrays that trust!

Remember what happened to Ruger when Bill Ruger supported the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act (a.k.a, Federal Assault Weapons Ban)? Or to Smith & Wesson when they cut a deal with the Clinton administration to end federal and state lawsuits against the company? The consumer backlash severely dented Ruger’s bottom line and almost put Smith out of business.

Given that history and the current firearms market, I was more than a little surprised to learn that one or more firearms manufacturers might drop their opposition to a despicable piece of Illinois gun control legislation in exchange for an exemption from the law’s restrictions. If they do, if a gunmaker negotiates a carve-out for itself with anti-gun pols to save their own skin, would you boycott their products? If so, for how long?

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126 Responses to CapArms Question of the Day: Would You Buy a Gun From A Company That Cut A Deal with Anti-Gun Pols?

  1. I don’t buy new from betrayers. If they repent sufficiently, then they’re back on my nice list.

    • Buying their used products isn’t a good idea either. Keep the market flooded. If you refuse to buy one of their products on the used market, then that’s one more item floating around unsold competing against their new stuff.

      Granted, I did give in and buy one Ruger and one S&W, but both are decades old and different from their current offerings.

      • I guess I did forgive Ruger, and have to admit I bought an S&W recently. Still boycotting Cheaper than Dirt, Dick’s, Dunham’s, and a number of other places that don’t respect their customers. I am not hesitant to take my business elsewhere but am willing to eventually let time heal things if they straighten out their business.

        • Cheaper than Dirt is still more expensive than their name implies. Reason enough to avoid them.

        • ANY COMPANY KNOWN TO SUPPORT ANTI GUN AGENDA OR POLITICIANS WHO ARE ACTIVELY TRYING TO TAKE AWAY OUR FIREARMS, DENYING US OUR RIGHTFUL 2nd AMENDMENT RIGHTS- IS BOYCOTTED . PERIOD. END OF DISCUSSION. NEW OR USED, DOESN’T MATTER. SPEND YOUR MONEY WITH THOSE WHO SUPPORT OUR FIREARMS AND SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS; ISSUE IS TOO IMPORTANT. There are NO half way measures, or redemption for those who’s agenda is bought and sold based on profits or their elitist mentality; same for politician who SAYS one thing (pro gun, pro hunting, etc), who in turn VOTES differently when in office. It’s morally wrong and they violate their oath of office to support and defend the US Constitution. Their outlandish hypocritical behavior, believing they are ABOVE the Laws that are enforced on their constituents has never been clearer than the FAST and FURIOUS debacle which worsens with each piece of information that is revealed without the slightest hint that the perpetrators and those who ORDERED the outlandish violation of our LAWS and PAID for it with OUR tax dollars- all should be fired without pensions at a minimum and IN JAIL where all felons belong. Congressmen and Senators who live like royalty, vote pay raises for themselves, pass OBAMA Care for the REST OF US while they have THEIR OWN medical plan, a 100% of pay pension where they don’t have to wait until 62/65/66i or whatever age and PAY NO Income taxes on pensions like their subjects do,, needs to be changed, voting them out of office until we have representative who actually do represent the people. Enough said, JAHO davzway who DOES VOTE

        • IF 80 MILLION GUN OWNERS, OR JUST THE 4 MILLION IN NRA BOYCOTT PRODUCTS,, MOST COMPANIES WOULD NOTICE A CHANGE IN THEIR BOTTOM LINE OF THEIR FINANCIAL BALANCE SHEET. MORE effective is the MILLIONS WRITING to those companies and TELLING them WHY and how of their being boycotted.

          SAME goes for restaurants or businesses who post NO FIREARMS signs to deny us the means to defend ourselves and our 2nd Amendment rights. LET THEM KNOW why they are being boycotted. These businesses should provide ARMED security to defend us, and provide financial support for our families if some nut comes in while we are defenseless and harms/kills the patrons who adhered to their mandates (remember Libby Cafeteria in Texas (name?) and story told by someone who obeyed the Law at that date and left her firearm in her car. Maybe having a firearm would not have made a difference; but we’ll never know as long as the sheep let the wolfs run things.

          This is why we Need to have MUST issue CCW laws in every state and reciprocity should be mandatory between states like drivers licenses; anything less is unconstitutional and morally wrong. IF the only voices heard are the Anti-Gun ones,, guess what’s going to happen. Same goes if NRA, Second Amendment Foundation and others are not supported to carry the fight to the Elitist Royalty in Washington; some may have seen that the ‘little unimportant people CAN make it happen, putting Donald Trump into office who was NOT supposed to win since everyone in media said it couldn’t happen. These are the same Elitist Royalty who are fighting the now President Trump at every step as he tries to carry out his promises – THEN they sling mud and point out that Trump’s only worked on HALF of his original campaign promises.

          We ‘the unimportant people’, who are actually the majority, cannot afford to lose this battle as our very freedom and America as we know it, the legacy we are leaving for our children and grandchildren is very much at stake. davzway

    • Well said! Haven’t darkened their door/website since 2008!

      To the original question, absolutely – until they die/go out of business, they are on my permanent $hit list.

    • Still doing business, yes. But not as good as in the old days. They had to close one store and reduce the amount of stuff in the other.

    • What did CheaperThanDirt do? I never owned a gun until a few years ago, so I may have been late to the party.

      • During the Sandy Hook panic they cancelled a bunch of people’s orders and then jacked up the prices to absolute highway robbery for guns, ammo, and magazines.

        • The “Sandy Hook Panic”? You make it sound like there shouldn’t have been a reaction/ adjustment after that devastating event. A lack of empathy with victims of gun violence is one of the key stereotypes of gun advocates. You aren’t doing any of us a favor by broadcasting this insensitive attitude. You CAN love guns and s
          empathize with victims.

        • @Michael – First of all there ain’t such animal as “gun violence”. Guns do not perpetrate violence any more than knives, stones or broken bottles do. Unless you want to talk about “sharp stick violence” or “lead pipe violence”. Just by using this loaded BS term you uncovered yourself as not part of “us”. “Assault weapon” and “commonsense safety measures” are another examples of brainwashing terms antis invented.

          Lower than dirt showed their compassion to victims by canceling bunch of AR orders that were confirmed and paid for. Then they threw the rifles back for sale, only now for multiple of original price. Nothing against charging as much as the market will bear, but to cancel done deal when they smell bigger profit is something that’s not done by honest business.

          I for one will never buy another cent’s worth from them. Maybe I’m not sensitive enough (almost definitively).

      • In the post-Newtown freak-out, Cheaper Than Dirt cancelled existing orders that hadn’t shipped yet, and re-listed the items for (much) higher prices. I understand the economics of raising prices during a panic, and I’m not one to cry “price gouging” (because outside of a few very specific circumstances, actual “price gouging” doesn’t exist), but canceling orders you had already finalized just to resell the product at a higher price is seriously scummy behavior.

        CTD never lived up to their name, anyway, so I was never inclined to buy from them even before they showed their true nature. I don’t think I’ve ever compared prices and found CTD to be cheaper (especially once you factor in their crazy shipping costs).

        • Canceling customers’ orders was a horrible decision. I never bought much from them and I don’t blame those who decided to stop buying from them entirely because of that.

          As for raising prices, don’t forget what a lot of people did during the panic. They bought guns and parts from stores that have not raised prices (and thus were instantly sold out) and they listed those same guns and parts on Gunbroker the next day, at very high prices.

          So CTD was not wrong for raising their prices per se, but they listed some items at such high prices that people were turned off by that and vowed never to return. Of course if people were willing to pay those prices, then that’s fine. But that’s not what ended up happening and the whole thing backfired. CTD could have handled that much better.

        • CTD is the least usurious place to purchase magazines for Grand Power pistols.

          Only $46/magazine (for a mecgar CZ magazine with a little window chopped out of it, as opposed to $55 everywhere else).

        • Haven’t bought ANYTHING from CTD since, and NEVER WILL AGAIN. Let them choke on it!!!!

          Now, getting WAY back to Michael’s (ass)inine comments about “empathy for Sandy Hook victim’s”, and his defense of CTD, let me say this: Michael dear boy, GET OFF THE COOL AID! Gun owners have more empathy for victims of crime than your little pea brain can understand, or appreciate. What they don’t do, is set about faulting a whole class of INNOCENT law abiding people for the faults of another. You cool aid drinkers want to punish everyone. Gun owners, as a lot, give more to charitable, wildlife, wilderness and humanitarian purposes than you could comprehend, much less appreciate.

          As for your defense of CTD, there’s NO defense that’s justifiable. Of course they are there to “make $$$”. GOUGING IS INDEFENSIBLE!!! It’s just goes against the grain of any semblance of proprietary behavior. It’s PURE GREED, at the expense of others. The market and supply chains can drive prices upwards, but CTD went well beyond that. Any business that can carve out a niche for themselves and prosper in today’s economy, I say good for them. There’s a BIG difference between that and THIEVERY. You can go back to your cool aid now and let the adults have an intelligent conversation.

      • Actually it was more than to $120 AR GI mags, in response to Sandy Hook they announced they were not going to sell any firearms. Then they waffled back and forth a couple times when people took them task, eventually donating to second amendment groups.

        By that point all mags and evil black rifles at any dealer were either out of stock, out of backorder, or otherwise price gouged.

        • That’s what is great about being free, living in a country where you actually have a CHOICE on where you go and how much you will pay for firearms, ammo or gun accessories. IF CTD is higher -or- documented,, and do mean documented supporting anti-gun or taking advantage of gun owners as reported after Sandy Hook incident- DO NOT buy from CTD. Shipping policy does limit what is a good deal; however, recently had a deal where IF you bought TEN boxes of ammo, Shipping was FREE on entire order, including ammo. Bought a half case 45acp and some other stuff as CTD’s DEAL was by far the best then and since for quantity of ammo. Don’t Trust unless from multiple reliable sources, ; and even then you still need to VERIFY before smearing a company (especially with Internet Rumors which spread worse than forest fire in a high wind.)

          Company exists to make a profit- there’s nothing wrong with making money (doing so legally and ethical business practices) True Story: a pair of firearms were SOLD by Distributor Seller as new ‘Premium’ grade (considerable more money). Both pistols were defective and when firearm manufacturer notified, owner of manufacturer promised gun(s) would be repaired under warranty at no charge and returned in one week. AFTER defective pair of guns were received Owner of gun manufacturer NOW advised firearms purchaser they decided to KEEP both guns and not warranty the firearms, -or- they ‘might’ decide to charge firearms owner for unspecified repairs; and REFUSED gun owners requested the return of his guns (certified letter) and he would repair defects himself (friend owned gunsmith shop). Owner of gun manufacturer REFUSED to return the two defective revolvers regardless. Kinda like stealing. A subsequent Filing in Small Claims against the Seller (distributor), the Firearm Manufacturer and Owner of Firearms Manufacturer (as individual) resulted in a Full Refund of Total Gun Sale plus all Court Costs- that gun manufacturer was BOYCOTT (not seller who didn’t make guns, nor part of Lies or decision to Steal pair of defective guns) FYI: Problem with SA revolvers was FOUR of six chambers in revolver cylinder was defective, and THREE of six chambers were defective in second revolver of consecutive serial numbered firearms pair. BOYCOTT the bad guys, Support the good companies.

      • after Sandy Hoax, on their website, a Beta C-Mag for the AR-15 was $116.00 at 08:00 in the morning. By 14:00 the same day, it had jumped to $999.99. that was enough for me to look elsewhere for my shooting needs and wants.

  2. I reject many of your opening premises. I understand that gun manufacturers, as well as gun-rights groups (such as yours), are first and foremost in the business of making money. Anything past that in my self-interest is unexpected and considered merely bonus points.

    • Troll much?

      If the NRA wanted to make money, they could support gun control like Everytown.

      As for smaller gun activists, only a fool thinks you’re gonna make a lot of money working for a NFP.

      • No trolling. The NRA makes a $hit-ton of money. Look at the executive compensation. If you think the NRA is in the gun rights business first and making money second, I would disagree with you.

        • compared to similar NFPs the executive compensation isn’t that large. Look at the Koman Foundation or the Red Cross.

        • Not For Profits exist for one purpose: to employ employees. That’s it. Any profit at Non Profits goes to the executives, and poof, no profit!!!

          The difference between For Profits and Non Profits is that Non Profits just virtue signal/pimp for grants and donations. Non Profits just use the tried and true religious institution model.

        • “The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.” – – – Wayne LaPierre

          I keep saying this, but when you have someone on your payroll who can come up with a readily identifiable slogan that—virtually by itself—completely discredits the claimed moral imperative of a carefully nuanced, well financed gun-control campaign, I’d say that guy was worth whatever it costs to keep him on board. LaPierre is a PR genius. The people who can do what he did can be counted on one hand and they don’t come cheap.

          Like it or not, in recent years, the NRA has successfully defended gun-rights against some of the most concerted anti-gun political initiatives in history. Politicians know that if they cross the NRA they’ll get their heads handed to them. That’s good enough for me. As long as they keep doing that, they’ll get my money. I don’t have to like them any more than I particularly have to like Trump.

      • The NRA does support gun control. See Project Exile which had full NRA support. How many times have you heard the NRA support “enforcing existing laws”? That is supporting gun control.

        • “enforcing existing laws” applies to those countless laws which were already on the books when the left started their push against guns by adding laws (controls)… NOT to the kinds of things happening in CA, WA, NY, MA, CT, and getting under way in places like OR.

          The NRA has done more to protect gun rights than any other organization. They have done more to advance safety through education. They have donated to affiliated ranges across the nation for upgrades of range facilities. With a reported 5 million members, they are the largest organization of which I am aware supporting shooting sports. Of course, 5 million is a drop in the bucket among the total estimate of gun owners, yet they accomplish more than all other firearms organizations combined. Yes, they have made mistakes but they are still in there raising funds to fight FOR us rather than against us. They have been around about the longest, and they have the connections among those who wield power.

          Within the past few days, the NRA-ILA, along with California Rifle and Pistol Association and other, filed suit in CA, and have added suits being prepared. These are things a 5C3 is not permitted to participate in. Which is why the NRA-ILA was formed. I may not approve of everything the NRA does, but I will continue to stand with any group which stands with me for my rights.

        • go back through the annals of History, since its Inception no other pro-gun Pro 2nd Amendment organization has voted in favor of gun control more than the NRA. Even simple forms of gun control justify their very existence. If we had the freedoms we deserve we would not even need them. They need us(our money, thus the constant battering of mail and emails) more than we need them

    • Even so, how they do it matters. If somebody makes their bones by throwing my civil liberties under the bus, I’m going to react accordingly.

    • @Poseur — The question of whether or not it’s good for business is what’s being asked here. “Cutting a deal” may appear to be the obvious decision to continue making money, as you’re implying, but maybe you missed the part in the article where doing just that severely hurt Ruger and S&W. If the market says “I’ll never do business with a company that supports gun control legislation” then it’s a bad business decision to do so, even if you’re exempted from whatever the law is. You could, for instance, fight the law and gain goodwill with your customers while moving out of the jurisdiction of the new law, as Magpul and other companies have in the last few years. Basically, I reject your myopic, simplistic premise of what’s best for the bottom line.

      • I don’t feel that having an expectation that a business is first in the business of making money is all that deplorable.

        I’m sure present-day firearms manufacturer executives look at the history of Ruger and S&W when making similar decisions. I simply presume that their decisions are what’s best for the bottom line.

        Regarding Mag-Pul, I’m just about positive that loudly moving across state lines was designed to improve their bottom line, nothing more, nothing less. That they made you feel all warm and fuzzy is part of their marketing strategy.

        • I personally recruited MagPull from to Texas. It wasn’t much of a recruitment. They wanted nothing from the state government. It had nothing to do with their bottom line, that was barely a consideration. They knew it would cost them, and it did, at least in the short run. The owner simply could not stand the political environment of Colorado. That’s it. The whole long and short of it. They searched for 2 things, a population that welcomed their business and a deep talent pool. Texas was the obvious choice, and they made it quickly.

        • Q:: Why was the move done so loudly then??

          A: my opinion: Virtue signaling to us gun people for profit. Also, I have a hard time believing Magpul did not get some sort of compensation for relocating.

          I know you are well acquainted with virtue signaling. Your last post is a great example.

        • The Gray Poseur, your reading comprehension skills fail you yet again. Note it says we offered, it does not say that they took the money. It even points out the big incentives that the state of Colorado offered, and were ignored. That should tell you everything you need.
          As far as virtue signaling, from myself or anyone else, your deep sense of inadequacy smells delicious.

        • You are yet again incapable of admitting that your knee-jerk Boy Scout-ish reaction was wrong. If one tenth of the cited article is correct,you are dead wrong. That was only the first google hit. Magpul TOOK INCENTIVES TO LEAVE COLORADO!!!! The high mindedness is simply icing on the cake for them that plays well to you Rambo wannabes.

        • Your NFP comment was just dumb a$$. NFP organizations might be too liberal for you, because that aren’t in it for the $$, but they for the most part are giving away/discounting their products as a public service. Not everyone is just in it for the $$. Stop being so cynical and smell the coffee.

        • Maybe so, but there’s nothing more powerful than a UNIFIED front. If ALL firearms businesses belonged to a coalition that fought for a common goal, they might just be unbeatable, especially if they pooled resources with all the gun clubs, hunting and shooting associations and yes, even the NRA. It’s folly to make a deal with any group or govt. entity. Just because they cut a deal today doesn’t mean they’re “safe” from further encroachment. Given half an opportunity, they’re going to come back for more until they get the WHOLE ENCHILADA. That’s their whole lot in life. They want it all and they WILL NOT STOP until then. EVERY step closer just emboldens them more.

      • To those companies who compromise in order to maintain the profit margin and those who support them… As CA has shown, if you give them an inch, they will take your guns or just turn them into paperweights. When that day arrives, you will no longer have a profit margin because you will no longer have a product to sell… not even toy guns. Your government WILL still have guns, as will the criminal elements as proven by what is taking place in the UK and Australia.

    • Replace “gun” with any other consumer item you use or have interest in and you will (hopefully) realize why you sound like a tool.
      And thank you.

    • William B. Ruger was the driver of that deal, and he’s been dead for quite a while now (2002). Ruger management since then has come around to see both the folly of that previous position, as well as the profits that can be garnered from that previously ignored/demonized market segment, and has corrected course quite nicely.

      Any OTHER company that executes this kind of short-sighted decision-making can no longer plead ignorance of the consequences of such an action, and should be crucified if they are stupid enough to try it, to reinforce the lesson.

      • I will agree since Bill Ruger died Ruger started making and selling MSRs, revised the classic Mk2 pistol, and introduced probably the best affordable factory Scout Rifle. They even defied Cooper’s caliber requirement and made a .223 version which would be an ideal starting centerfire rifle for when my son is old enough. So I’m voting with my dollars (or South Pacific pesos) to save up for a Ruger product.

    • I was looking for someone to point this out: Bill Jr. is a far more shrewd businessman than his father. I once had the dubious honor of meeting Bill Ruger before he died, he was an arrogant SOB who listened to none but his own reflection. Love his products all the same and still want more, especially since new designs Bill would never have green-lighted have been introduced.

  3. Well who are they and what exemptions are they seeking? You can’t just drop a bomb like this in this sort of manner. This is worse than my HS Prom date when it comes to teasing.

  4. Won’t buy new production Smiths to this day (my personal boycott for the hillary hole) and it took a lot of thought before I purchased my new model vaquero, any other ruger stuff I feel I can’t live without will be easy enough to get used. I also won’t buy any Troy or Hexmag stuff ever again. No one really ever gets off my list (or at least hasn’t yet). Smith could by either dropping the hillary hole all together or at the very least make it an option instead or standard equipment.

    • Curious what did Hexmag do?

      I’ll buy Ruger since old man Bill is gone and the company turned things around.

      • In a nutshell, Hexmag was started by two brothers. One did the designing of the actual product, one was the marketing person. With a bit of under handed tactics, the marketing brother cut the actual designer brothers throat and basically stole the company.

        • You’re far too kind. Marketing brother pulled numerous scumbag tricks and screwed his own blood six ways to Sunday.

          Hexmag can suck it.

      • Ditto; Bill Ruger was an odd duck and could not understand why anyone would need a magazine with more than 10 rounds. The company is under better thinking management today.

        • Bill Ruger was a great American and the most prolific firearm designer since John Browning. His company manufacturers high quality firearms for a reasonable prices that made buying a good gun AFFORDABLE compared to his competitors. Reintroduced the lost wax process to use the cost effective investment casting process to make the affordable gun possible,, and the list goes on. Americans like myself responded and bought a LOT of guns in the process. Bill Ruger was certainly entitled to his opinion on 10 round mags even if it’s not one that this reviewer shares; and he also tried to AVOID the military appearance for same reason, trying to keep the firearms business viable in an unstable political climate- and Sturm Ruger has supported the Shooting Sports at every turn for decades. Ruger’s legacy appears secure in 21st Century and beyond. JANSHO davzway,

        • davzway, What aggravated me the most was Ruger’s decision to buckle to Clinton’s mag ban to us folks, but continue to sell high caps to LE/Military. I prefer Barrett’s concept…”No civilian sales in your state? Then no LE sales in your state” That said, I consider Bill Ruger a great firearms designer and he definitely travelled his own roads ie: Number 1 series, Single Sixes, Blackhawk series. He was called crazy for trying to sell single shot rifles and “cowboy” revolvers. We all know how that turned out!

  5. Details! I need specifics of this carve-out.

    As a blanket statement, I would boycott them for at least a year. If not more, depending upon egregiousness.

    How they repent for their deal also factors into this.

  6. I try to build most of mine, no-name 80% receivers are a big part of my gun life, I’ve already boycotted a few companies for different reasons, cheaper than dirt is a company I’ve never purchased from, and don’t plan to, they don’t have any cheaper deals than anyone else as far as I’ve seen, and heard bad things about business ethics about them, PSA, and a few others. I try to stick to private, local, and little guy sellers, more loyalty that way.

  7. Back to Ruger? Only long after Bill was dead and in the ground.

    Back to S&W? Only after management/ownership had changed hands.

    Back to Armalite (after his “well, the cops are special and have special rights” comments)? Never.

    If Springfield Armory, DPMS, RRA or the others pull opposition in order to get a carve-out? NEVER. And it’s not just me … all my CCW students will get the speech too. (I heavily influence new shooter selection of arms).

    Don’t do it …

  8. I have a hard time with the premises of the inquiry; to-wit:

    1) Why would any gun owner or supporter voluntarily live in Illinois such that this might bother them? I am sure that there are a number of good people stranded there for various reasons, but how much of a market can that be compared to red states?

    2) Why would any gun company even try to do business in Illinois given its’ immense hostility to Second Amendment rights?

    3) What possible bottom-line benefit could accrue to a company for trying to work with Illinois politicians?

    I conclude that any company trying to get into bed with Illinois politicians has terminally stupid leadership which cannot result in a quality product or anything else good emerging from such a company. Accordingly, the mere notion that a gun company is conducting itself in that fashion takes them right off the list of products which might interest me.

    • 1) Aside from Chicago, Illinois *is* a red state. I grew up in Peoria, and still have family there. The state is much more than Chicago, it’s just unfortunate that politics there is dominated by the corrupt Chicago machine.

      2) The 2.1 million FOID card holders in Illinois buy lots of guns and ammo. Ignoring millions of customers isn’t generally smart business. To put it in perspective, there are more gun owners in Illinois than there are total population in red states like Nebraska, West Virginia, Idaho, Montana, both Dakotas (combined), Alaska, etc… It’s a lucrative market.

      That said, your third point is valid. The amount of business lost by boycotters in the rest of the U.S. would probably be greater than what they would stand to gain by gaming whatever laws Illinois’ crooked legislature can come up with. It would be a bad business move to negotiate a carve-out.

      • We have the same kind of problem here in CA where everyone judges the entire state by the major metro zones like LA, SF, SD, and SAC. About 96% of the state is rural and/or undeveloped, and the majority of those of us who live in these parts like our guns. That includes conservatives, liberals, and gays, etc. Sadly, the major metro zones still control the liberal progressive commie votes by shear numbers. Hey, practically every law enforcement agency and association in the state came out against Prop 63 and were ignored by the politicians.

      • I love in the Peoria area now and even some of the most liberal people I know own guns and support the 2nd. Most people don’t agree with any one party 100% and if you grow up around guns it’s hard to swallow the anti gun bs.

        Illinois =\= Chicago

    • Stinkeye is right.

      Lumping all of Illinois into Chicago politics, or even believing all of Chicago is that way, is just plain dumb. There’s a LOT of people in Chicago, and Illinois, so there is a big market even of the general climate is bad.

      Does it make more sense to market to 10% of 6 million people, or 80% of 100,000?

      Both make sense, but focusing on the 90% blinds you to a substantial number.

  9. Since what you seem to be describing is a violation of Equal Protection…. I would need to hear specifics to make a determination. That said, people make mistakes. And I usually have room for forgiveness, provided the individuals or organizations actually change their position.

  10. no, i would not. too many choices not to be picky.
    i already don’t buy anything made in france. and that’s for no good reason.

  11. I would cease any business with any company that would infringe or price gouge.
    Still havent stepped foot in dicks, haven’t spent a penny at CTD.
    I used to do a healthy amount of business with both.

    • What price gouging? You mean when demand shot through the roof after Sandy Hook and prices followed? That’s basic economics. Everybody is happy as can be when market forces drive prices down. But when the same forces drive prices up, that’s price gouging? Yeah, I don’t think so.

      Some people clam that CTD canceled their already placed orders just so they could sell the same items later at a higher price. If that’s true, then I have no problem boycotting them for that reason. I don’t think I bought anything from them since Sandy Hook anyway. But I have no sympathy for people who don’t understand basic economics and that’s their reason for boycotting a company.

      • I agree for the most part Mr. P, but CTD took it to a whole new level. Even a full-time capitalist like me was offended enough to cancel my catalog with them.

        • Haha, I get it. I just posted higher up that it wasn’t so much the raising of prices, but raising them to levels that were going to turn off just about everybody and their grandmother. CTD probably noticed that demand was going up like they’ve never seen before, so they kept raising prices. That all backfired when they listed certain items at absurdly high prices that nobody was going to pay.

        • I remember them trying to sell a case of Tula or Wolf 7.62×39 for $400. That’s .40 cents for steel case AK ammo. Ridiculous. But if you looked around you couldn’t find it or gunbroker had it even higher in price.

  12. I wont vote for a Clinton and I wont buy a Ruger.
    I always avoid pinko companies and I always open my wallet for companies that stand with us. Just wish I could afford a Barrett 50 or four.

  13. That was then, this is now. Back then gun owners and gun manufacturers were just trying to figure out who the enemy actually was. Every one screwed up…every one. Today, we all know better. Communication has vastly improved. Consumer knowledge is far greater. We are all more politically sophisticated. Beware of manufacturers that have been bought out by some money hungry entity and now compelled to churn out craptastic products that once upon a time had a reputable brand name (Remington, Winchester, Colt). Beware of legislators and agencies that willingly choose to misread a very clearly written Constitution. And, of course, beware of courts that don’t know the difference between law keeping and law making. Personally, I am OK with Ruger and S&W.

  14. I’d wait at least until the management changes. Like others have said, Bill Ruger pushed for the deal with the devil; now that he’s dead and gone, Ruger’s okay in my book. As far as Smith goes, I only like their old revolvers, anyways, so that’s all I’ll buy of theirs.

  15. This is why I do as much business with Spikes Tactical as possible. Go to the front page on their website and the first thing you should see if a statement that says they will NOT do business with any government entity that restricts the 2nd. Amendment rights of their citizens. THIS COMPANY IS A PATRIOT – THEY GET MY BUSINESS !!!

  16. Haven’t bought either since they bit the hands that feed them. Probably would if they had anything I was interested in now that Mr. Ruger has died and the folks at Smith have been replaced.

  17. “…I was more than a little surprised to learn that one or more firearms manufacturers might drop their opposition to a despicable piece of Illinois gun control legislation in exchange for an exemption from the law’s restrictions. ”

    Would you support a manufacturer who publicly and loudly opposed this legislation and announced that they would pull all sales, including police, from that state? Would you then help them with that loss by purchasing one of their products? And if not, why complain in the first place?

    • I dunno about the author, but I have a Barrett in my safe. And zero Troy industries products. Haven’t placed any orders with CTD since 2011 myself.

      The Illinois gun dealer licensing bill is coming up for a vote soon. Sure sounds like this is the bill referenced.

      • CTD has ticked me off before. They priced gouged big time years ago on ammo. But supply and demand I guess. They were the only place besides gunbroker that had popular ammo at that point. The other on going is there shipping. They rape you. I admit I’ve purchased stuff from them once or twice over the last several years when the product has free shipping and it’s cheaper than anywhere else.

  18. I won’t deal with a company that pats me on the back with one hand while it stabs me in the back with the other.

  19. I own a Ruger pistol, and was on the verge of buying a Ruger Precision Rifle.

    Those were both beyond the reign of Bill Ruger, though, so I don’t feel guilty.

    If that sort of capitulation were to happen again, that company would be on my shitlist for a couple decades.

    Also, I refuse to buy GM cars, so this is a bit of hypocrisy on my end.

  20. I won’t buy anything from Troy. One has to draw the line somewhere.
    And, there’s no point in funding the enemies of your interests.

  21. not really. it would have to be extreme. i usually dont let politics run my thought processes about purchases. its sad how much people let politics run their life for them.

  22. I once swore I would never watch a certain TV network when they canceled a show I liked. The show was highly rated in a prize demographic but didn’t “fit” with the network’s image. With business decisions like that, I didn’t have to boycott the network for the rest of my life. It’s gone now.

    With the similarities between firearms in basically any class of firearms, I have a hard time figuring out which way to go when getting a new one. With a market that has so many choices of similar products at similar prices, it is easy to boycott a company that makes offensive decisions. This is especially true when the products are luxury goods (which is the case of all but two of my guns). It only gets hard when all/most of the companies start doing it.

  23. No, I won’t buy firearms from a manufacturer who cuts a deal with politicians who are infringing upon our rights.

    How long would I stay away? Probably at least 10 years … and quite possibly forever depending on how egregious the situation.

  24. This is one of those things where I am torn.

    On the one hand, yes I’d like to say that I would not to business with a gun company that engaged in such behavior.

    On the other hand I do business with companies that engage in such behavior because, in effect, they all do. Gun companies generally haven’t boycotted LE sales/service in states like California or New York/New Jersey. They also don’t mind a “carve out” for themselves, LE and military when it comes to full autos or other NFA gear.

  25. This is the first time I’ve heard of CTD canceling people’s orders. I do remember their nutty prices during the scares and always crazy shipping. But does anyone have first hand experience with the. Canceling their order for no reason other than to jack up the price? Just because it was in your cart doesn’t mean anything.

    • Folks had placed orders and paid for those products, CTD just hadn’t shipped them yet. CTD then cancelled the orders, refunded money, and jacked up prices. There are dozens of documented accounts of this, with screenshots showing the orders placed/confirmed/paid, and the “refund” email.

      In terms of examples of low-handed opportunism in modern firearms/accessories sales, it’s probably the sleaziest.

    • So, would you kiss their C.E.O. on the lips right after they were done going down on billary? Its about the same thing…especially Smith.

  26. Short answer is yes.
    Still won’t buy from CT
    Bill Ruger was years dead and in the ground before I bought another Ruger.
    Smith fixed their ownership/management problem years before I bought their stuff again.

    I have also noticed that the companies that don’t stab their customers in the back also have better products and better QC.

    • CT = CrimsonTrace? Please share. I haven’t heard this one.

      Or if you meant Connecticut as a reference to Ruger, disregard.

  27. Not to hijack the thread but, notice how quickly many hear will turn on a company that does not respect the 2A. However, how many here will pull their support for a state, these United States, cops, and/or military when when said entities commit violations more egregious than Ruger or Smith ever did?

    • I’m pulling my support for anything Berkeley because of their war on free speech. Or at least not protecting it.

  28. When S&W was playing footsie with the gungrabbers, I sent a “harshly worded note” to the management, informing them that the several fine S&W guns I owned would not be joined by any new purchases under the existing management.

  29. As long as the company has made sufficient public notice of it’s past bad decisions, I am fine with giving that company my business. Look at where Ruger, Colt, and S&W are advertising now. I think they all learned that if they want to remain in business they better know their customer. There are hundreds of companies in many fields that I shop at that have made terrible decisions which I disagree with. I will not provide them my business until I see they have made good on their stupid decisions. That being said I will not shop at Target. They hate guns, they hate babies and they want to indoctrinate people into accepting their ridiculousness on gender. I would rather shop at wally world. (which has it’s own issues)

  30. Sorry I popped in late. Putting a Ruger AR 556 on layaway. In INDIANA(I live in ILLINOIS). I wasn’t around in Bill Ruger days.I’m cool with Ruger. I WAS around during CTD debacle and Dicks screwing customers. As far as Illinois goes Rauner would veto a licensing bill-or not get reelected.

  31. I once bought Rugers. Not since Bill supported a ban on magazines over 15 rounds in order to save his Mini-14 and tank MY HK-91.

    I once bought Smith & Wessons. Not since S&W joined hands with the Clinton Administration to add hurdles to MY purchasing.

    It matters not if the company is sold.

    There is plenty of competition making similar guns of similar quality. NO MANUFACTURER IS INDISPENSABLE,

  32. I’ll say yes to this, until management gets cleared out. Lets be honest here, Bill’s dead and Smith is under new ownership who understands where their bread is buttered. Until they make another folly I’m okay with it. I will say that overall I’m more inclined to buy a gun without the hillary hole though; That said the 327PD or the 329PD aren’t exactly made in that era to my knowledge.

  33. Bill Rugar is gone his Kid took over (more in tune with customer) Sold all my Smith & Wesson! Mossberg, Savage, Taurus, Keltec, Sig, Remington, DPMS {before buy out}, Marlin same are all a Viable Gun product! we Have many options!
    While I understand why companies will take a self preservation attitude, don’t do it at my expense!

  34. Quote——————Given that history and the current firearms market, I was more than a little surprised to learn that one or more firearms manufacturers might drop their opposition to a despicable piece of Illinois gun control legislation in exchange for an exemption from the law’s restrictions. If they do, if a gunmaker negotiates a carve-out for itself with anti-gun pols to save their own skin, would you boycott their products? If so, for how long?—————-Quote—–

    So what law are you speaking about and who are the Gun Companies that are going to stab us in the back? Better for us to know now than after they make the deal because then it will be too late.

  35. Everyone comments on Ruger and S&W, Cheaper than Dirt, but no one supports Remington, Winchester or Colt. These companies especially Colt have been seriously damaged for supporting Gun owners. I will continue to support Colt and the others because when the chips were down they supported me and my rights to own and carry a firearm. If I had the money I would buy Colts new 1911 and their AR15 models over the johnny come lately companies like S&W, RUGER, and a whole host of European companies that have for years supported gun control there. Hey people when is the last time you bought a Colt??

    • I agree with that 100% and do buy from some of these companies. You are right in saying that non American companies have worked harder for our 2nd amendment rights than American companies. That’s because some of them realize what we have here. The German companies can’t sell their product to their own citizenry.

      • As much as I can, I spread the wealth around. However, I have limited funds and, by necessity, have to look for the best bang for my bucks.

    • Right now, simply selling ammo doesn’t require a Federal Firearms License.
      So maybe a company doesn’t desire the Federal Bureaucrapic baggage and hassle and the zealous attention of the BatBoyz that goes along with that FFL.
      So Eff’em simply because they don’t want that? Is that the point you’re trying to make?

  36. There’s enough gun makers out there these days that a consumer can afford to be choosy. If they betray my trust, they lose my business.

  37. S&W, Ruger, Target, CTD, and for personal reasons Wal-Mart, get $0 from my budget. I do have some products from S&W and Ruger that were purchased in the late 1970’s and very early 1980’s. It would appear that SA and RRA don’t want my money either. That’s too bad, I was considering a Range Officer in 9mm, and some parts from RRA. I’ll source a 9mm 1911 elsewhere, and get my parts from PSA or the plethora of companies that are looking for my $.

  38. Bill Ruger gave us some great pistols and rifles in his day but was for the AWB and didn’t think you needed more than ten rounds in a gun. The company today is a far cry from any philosophy like that, big deal.

    So many people toot NRA’s horn but forget they we A-OK when it came to banning importation of firearms (they get more money from US manufacturers after all).

    Everyone is eventually going to step on your morality toes, it’s just a matter of how egregiously they do it. Things change though, and anyone not willing to give a company a second chance when circumstances are different and their outlook has shifted is only doing themselves a disservice. I for one think Ruger is a great company: they listen to their consumers, pump out new products almost on a weekly basis, make their products in the US and they just make solid firearms. Sturm, Ruger & Co. of 2017 are a much, much different company than the one from 25 years ago.

  39. Bushmaster did it in 1994 to me– canceled an order for an AR lower, and then raised the price $100.

    They had not yet charged my credit card, but whatever. They have plenty of competition, and I have a very long memory.

    • The bill, if passed into law, could limit us to 9 transactions per year! Worse than some one-gun-a-month states! If this be the case I would not waste anyone of those transactions on their products! I hope they feel the pinch, betray us and trade away our freedoms for their own self serving benefit… Hell they should run for office in IL for they are no better than the crooks in Springfield. Nothing short of a huge contribution to the second amendment foundation to fight to fix the errors of their ways would sway me.

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