More Details on That Deadly Broken Arrow, OK Burglary

Burglary trio

Maxwell Cook (from left), Jaykob Woodruff and Jacob Redfearn

More details have come to light in the burglary in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma that left three high school drop-outs dead. At the time, we covered it in “OK Homeowner With AR-15 Shoots, Kills Three Home Invaders: Defensive Gun Use of the Day“.  Thankfully, the homeowner’s son who fired the shots won’t be charged. However, the getaway driver, Elizabeth Rodriguez, will face a bevy of charges, including first degree murder.

Authorities say the trio had broken into the garage of the home earlier. Then, wanting more, they kicked in the back door to the residence. It did not go well for them.

They entered, awakening the homeowner’s son who armed himself with an AR-15 and, after an exchange of words, shot the three. One dropped DRT (dead right there). Another crawled to a bedroom as he bled out. The third made it outside where the getaway driver left him to die on the cold concrete driveway.

 

Police believe the getaway driver Elizabeth Rodriguez drove off as her compatriot bled out. She didn’t call 9-1-1 to ask for medical assistance for her friends. She didn’t help load her wounded friend into the car then rush him to the hospital. Instead, she waited several hours before turning herself in to police after their failed attempt to “hit a lick“.

Young Elizabeth admitted her role in a jailhouse interview.   With a smirk on her face, she told KOTV:

“I’m sorry we broke into his house. I’m sorry we scared him or whatever, but I’m not going to be sorry he shot somebody. He could’ve shot them boys in the leg. I understand he was scared, had every right, he has his rights, has his rights, I’m understanding of him. I affected his life, I’m sorry, but am I compassionate for him? He’s on the bottom of my list to be compassionate for,” Rodriguez said.

“He could’ve shot them boys in the leg.” Well now. If “them boys” had been in school where they belonged, they wouldn’t have been shot at all, now would they?

In another jailhouse interview, she said that they all agreed “if there were guns, it was every man for themselves.” True to her word, she drove off “every man for themselves” leaving her compatriot behind in the driveway.

Friday evening saw a candlelight vigil to “honor” the three dead high school drop outs formerly majoring in burglary.  When someone claimed one of the teenage participants had a gun,  participants scattered like roaches in the light.

Tulsa World has that report.

OWASSO — A candlelight vigil for three teenagers who were fatally shot during a break-in at a Wagoner County home earlier this week was interrupted by reports of a gun at the gathering.

About 150 people attended the ceremony, which began at 8 p.m. behind the Owasso YMCA, 8300 N. Owasso Expressway, to remember Maxwell Cook, 18, Jacob Redfearn, also 18, and Jaykob Woodruff, 15.

Friends of the teenagers gathered to share memories of the three Friday. The vigil had been going on about an hour when the attendees, mostly teenagers themselves, began screaming and running from the pavilion where people were congregated after an attendee began shouting about a gun.

The grandfather of one of the deceased hoodlums added his simple-minded analysis to the media as well.  KTUL interviewed the man.

The grandfather of Jacob Redfearn believes shooting and killing the 17-year-old and his friends was not needed.

“What these three boys did was stupid,” said Leroy Schumacher.

Schumacher agrees his grandson and his friends made a bad decision, but not one worthy of deadly consequences.

“They knew they could be punished for it but they did not deserve to die,” said Schumacher.

…“Brass knuckles against an AR-15, come on, who was afraid for their life,” said Schumacher.

“There’s got to be a limit to that law, I mean he shot all three of them; there was no need for that,” said Schumacher.

Of course, grandpa Schumacher conveniently forgets the trio also brought a knife – clearly a deadly weapon. But why let the facts get in the way of a good quote? Three home invaders versus a single resident? If Jacob’s parents had raised him to be a decent person, he wouldn’t be burglarizing peoples’ homes.

Schumacher does say he supports the right to bear arms and protect your home. But he doesn’t agree with shooting and killing intruders.

Keep digging, Mr. Schumacher. Everyday Americans support the right of self-defense, particularly against multiple armed home intruders.

comments

  1. avatar Vitsaus says:

    Yet more evidence that some one saved the taxpayers a whole lot of money.

    1. avatar Rattlerjake says:

      And rid the earth of 3 ignorant criminal leftists!

      1. avatar Alfonso Alfredo Rodriguez says:

        What the hell does political inclination has to do with crime. This “boys” were not educated enough to know left from right and apparently neither do you. They are now dead so let them be and let their families deal with the mess. No need for further insults. I agree with you they were criminal (rookies though) but stay away from making pronouncements as imbecilic as your nick name.

        1. avatar Rattlerjake says:

          Hey dipshit, I have my opinion and you have yours, and there is a thing called “FREEDOM OF SPEECH”. If you don’t like what I said then ignore it and read something else. Stop whining like a leftist!

  2. avatar ucfgrad93 says:

    Thanks for the update.

    “He could’ve shot them boys in the leg.” Someone has been watching too many movies.

    1. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

      I was actually going the opposite direction when I read that, thinking that at least the old coot didn’t demand that the victim shoot the knife and brass knuckles out of the invaders’ hands.

      1. avatar Art out West says:

        That is what the Lone Ranger would have done. Not only that, but he would have done it with silver bullets to boot.

    2. avatar Nigel the expat says:

      Thanks, ucfgrad93, that is what I came to here to say 🙂

      And this whole notion that people who break into your home and confront you with deadly weapons somehow get a ‘fair fight’… Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I have no pity or remorse for these ‘boys’.

      1. avatar PATRON49IFT says:

        This is how natural selection works. Actions have consequences.

    3. avatar Lost Down South says:

      Leg shot huh? No problems there…except for that wacky femoral artery.

      IF you wan to watch a bleed-out happen, here’s a not terribly fun video:

      https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=885_1420607869

    4. avatar California Richard says:

      The moment you pull the trigger its an automatic use of deadly force. Doesn’t matter if you shoot them once in the leg or 5 times in the chest. The law doesn’t draw a distinction. The fact that the surviving teenage idiot is stating that deadly force was authorized is one hell of a legal gaffe on her part. What idiot lawyer let their client, facing 3x murder-1 charges, tell a TV station that shooting the armed intruders was fine. She deserves whats coming to her for so many reasons.

    5. avatar Cliff H says:

      Twenty round standard capacity mag, three targets. Without reading the coroner’s autopsy report how does she know that he didn’t “shoot them in the leg”, several times each?

      And BTW, as a former Army medic who has had occasion to treat gunshot wounds to the leg, I can attest that if you even nick one of the major arteries in either legs your life-span is now measured in minutes without immediate and effective medical intervention. I’m sure Nick and JWT will concur.

    6. avatar Jim Macklin says:

      If the AR was loaded with military ammunition, shooting in the leg might have been survivable. But if the AR was loaded with civilian “sporting” ammunition a shot in the leg or torso with hunting ammunition would kill with a massive wound.

      1. avatar Dave M says:

        People are ignorant of the seriousness of leg wounds. Was in Jamestown, VA last fall & went to where the fort/settlement used to be. In the museum was skeleton of a soldier, that according to modern forensic science, had died instantly of a leg wound during a training exercise. It gets even more interesting though: the lead ball had been deliberately cut to increase the severity of the wound. So the question is: would he had survived a ‘normal’ round equivalent to ball ammo? Found it interesting that experiments were being made on ammo around 3 centuries ago that would equate to today’s expanding hollow point.

    7. avatar styrgwillidar says:

      yeah, high up severing the femoral artery- with them still bleeding out. For all we know, that actually could be the case for the two who were not DRT.

      Definitely one for the ‘play stupid games, win stupid prizes’ file

  3. avatar Swilson says:

    What absolute garbage. Fvck all three of “them boys”.

    1. avatar Ed says:

      I think we need a new federal law.
      The “coup de grace” law that would entitle you to the option of delivering a finishing shot to a wounded intruder. That way we save the state the costs of trial and incarceration. Seems logical to me. If after the trial the fat turd driver gets convicted the home owner should have the option of taking her out behind the courthouse and putting a bullet in her too. What scum.

  4. avatar sagebrushracer says:

    Call it morbid curiosity but I want to see the coroner reports. Shot placement ECT.

  5. avatar Chris says:

    I’ve been hunting for some posts in support of the criminals, but I can’t find too many. Why is this a triple-report worthy story?

    1. avatar Pwrserge says:

      Because it’s an awesome example of why the gun control sociopaths are full of shit and need to be strung up.

      1. avatar The Gray Poseur says:

        This is post-worthy for several reasons. One, because it allows us to see inside the minds of people who don’t want the rest of us to be armed. And what some of them are capable of inflicting on the rest of us. With zero conscience. And to arm up. I’m sure there are plenty of other reasons.

        1. avatar Big Bill says:

          I don’t think it’s people who don’t want us to be armed; the man said he believed in the 2A.
          Instead, it is a demonstration of how misplaced family “love” can be (in this case, the little darling somehow deserved less, despite his crime), and of just how the “news” media will spin things to fit their agenda. In this case, the agenda that even in a case of self defense, there is somehow supposed to be a “fairness” in the contest. Self defense is supposed to be brutal; you are fighting for your life. Your attacker isn’t being “fair”; if he were, he’d have given you advance notice of his intent. Instead, in this case, they invaded a home, obviously thinking they had the upper hand (unless there was a gun in the home, then it was “every man for himself,” which speaks volumes about the “bravery” of the trio.

      2. avatar Nigel the expat says:

        Right now in NV they are up to their old tricks. They just floated a bill to remove civil immunity when you have been cleared in a justified homicide.

        Essentially, you’re cleared criminally, but their family still get their pound of flesh for ‘murdering their darling boy’. Can you guess which party has all the listed sponsors for this bill?

        https://www.leg.state.nv.us/App/NELIS/REL/79th2017/Bill/5180/Overview

        1. avatar Andrew Lias says:

          There is a Chicago PD officer who’s suing a family of a “youth who was in the process of turning his life around” for damages to his career and psychological damages. I kind of applaud that idea.

    2. avatar No one of consequence says:

      Besides what the other gents said, it also counters a few of the more common things we hear from the anti’s:
      – “An AR / assault weapon / assault rifle / Evil Black Rifle is useless for home defense”
      – “Nobody needs high capacity clipazines – how many people do you think will be attacking you at once?”

      1. avatar Nigel the expat says:

        What? This never happened.

        Well, at least according to Shannon 😉

    3. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

      It provides an edifyingly bad example of hiw not to conduct yourself wgen you’re dealing with the criminal justice system.

      Waiving your right to a lawyer, spilling everything to detectives, giving smug, self-satisfied interviews with the media where you come off defiant and remorseless, etc., all are going to come back to haunt her something fierce.

      Granted, she’s guilty as sin and deserves the full force of the book Oklahoma is going to throw at her. The basic principles of how not to dig yourself into an even deeper hole could apply to even legitimate self-defenders, though.

  6. avatar CTstooge says:

    “To hell with them fellas. Buzzards gotta eat, same as worms.”

    1. avatar Swilson says:

      “Now remember, when things look bad and it looks like you’re not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean. I mean plumb, mad-dog mean. ‘Cause if you lose your head and you give up then you neither live nor win. That’s just the way it is.”

    2. avatar Josey Wales says:

      Dammit son, that’s my line.

      1. avatar LKB says:

        “Dying ain’t much of a living.”

      2. avatar kenneth says:

        But now you get to spit tobacco juice in the corpse’s face…

    3. avatar Leadslinger says:

      “You gonna pull those pistols or whistle Dixie?”

  7. avatar Joe R. says:

    It should have been a defensive gun use of the day.

    And it was.

    If he had only just “scared them off” they would’ve come back a third time, or gone to your house.

  8. avatar M2AP says:

    Hopefully she gets the death penalty.

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      In this state, can we expect her to be charged with the murders of all 3 of her friends?

      1. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

        Yes. Oklahoma law abides by what’s called tge felony murder rule. Any death occurring as a result of the commission of a felony is chargeable to the criminals, even if it’s one of the criminals who is killed by one of the victims, even if the accomplice wasn’t even at the scene.

        Basically, if you’re in for a penny, you’re in for a pound.

        1. avatar Weight Watchers says:

          That hawg looks like she’s in for about 250 lbs!

  9. avatar Omer Baker says:

    I wonder if she feels compassion for her three dead “friends”?

    1. avatar Andrew Lias says:

      That’s kinda what I was wondering esp the one that was bleeding out in his driveway! She put them in harm’s way so she could drive away if need be. Hope she gets to stay in prison a long time if they don’t fry her, probably a sociopath. Then again sociopaths are typically manipulative and this just seems to be a total fumble on her part.

  10. avatar Rusty Chains says:

    This is the usual course of Thug Culture. What is the average lifespan of the generic thug in the US?

    1. avatar Let God Sort 'em Out says:

      Nowhere near short enough.

    2. avatar AD says:

      The USDOJ has some decent data on this. I’m not doing any math for you but black males around 25 y/o and under are around seven times more likely to murder or be murdered than the population at large. Beyond age 35 or so murder rates fall below the general rate.
      The numbers are somewhat dated but I doubt if human nature has changed much.

      1. avatar M2AP says:

        Criminals age out of the behavior after a certain age. It’s just a matter of identifying the criminals and locking them up long enough for that to happen, as well as keeping them from becoming even better criminals while in prison and giving them something to do if we want to let them out.

  11. avatar Calvin says:

    I feel sorry for the kid. Right or not, it’s going to be a while (if ever) before he shakes this.

    1. avatar Art out West says:

      I feel sorry for him as well. The shooting was certainly justified, but it is still a terribly traumatic thing for a person to go through.

    2. avatar AD says:

      Agreed. I can easily see this fellow becoming the local “Zimmerman.” Moving is probably prudent.

      1. avatar Jim Macklin says:

        George Zimmerman was in mortal combat. He was then attacked by the MSM and the State of Florida even appointed a special prosecutor.
        Zimmerman certainly suffers from PTSD because of the way he was treated by te MSM and Florida government. Despite the Florida law which seems to have been known only by the police chief [ who was fired ] that should have protected George, he was and still is attacked.
        In Oklahoma, none of the facts are similar.
        There were multiple aggressors
        The home was invaded
        Nobody was black

        Even the MSM finds little to base an attack on the defender, in the home, awakened by burglary, who called the sheriff. In Oklahoma the AR and rifles in general are in almost every rural home in Oklahoma. Gun owners in Oklahoma, Kansas, Red States, own firearms and vote.

      2. avatar Darren P. says:

        I would be glad to.have him as a neighbor,I am right up the road in Wichita.

    3. avatar DrewR55 says:

      I feel sorry for him and the damage done to his hearing after firing multiple rounds in an enclosed space. Now, if sound suppressor weren’t so heavily regulated…

  12. avatar paul says:

    The photo get younger and younger

    1. avatar Curtis in IL says:

      There tends to be an acute lack of senior portraits among high school dropouts.

  13. avatar Nynemillameetuh says:

    After listening to gramps, I understand why some countries punish the families of the guilty.

    1. avatar David Walters says:

      Punishing the relatives for the crimes of a person is called consanguinity. It’s not legal here.

      I’m glad for it too. My younger brother was nothing other than a hardened druggy criminal. I’m glad I didn’t have to pay for his many crimes.

      Not the use of the very conjugation of “to be” above as “was”. Crime took him down soon enough.

      LF

  14. avatar lightfoot says:

    UNBELIEVABLE !!!

    Candlelight vigils are normally held to honor a fallen hero, or innocent victim(s).

    150 kids to honor home invaders? There must be a whole lot of aspiring criminals in that town.

    1. avatar Pwrserge says:

      Sounds like an event law enforcement should have attended to check the gathered scum for open warrants.

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        Or arrived with a few drug-sniffing dogs. Sounds like everybody expected a party, to me.

  15. avatar Curtis in IL says:

    Headline failure, Mr. Boch.

    This was not a burglary. Burglars need only crowbars and other door breaching devices. This was a home invasion, complete with masks and weapons.

    The difference between burglary and home invasion/robbery is immense. The former is a property crime. The latter is a violent crime. I would think you would know the difference.

    1. avatar bob399 says:

      In most jurisdictions, it is burglary too. Burglary, if I recall correctly, is defined loosely as breaking and entering with the intent to commit a felony. Years ago, and perhaps still today, burglary was sometimes more serious than robbery. I suspect it was that way because society believed it more evil to violate the sanctity of a person’s home than an actual robbery. Today, with the trend toward our partisan judiciary, who knows anymore.

  16. avatar BLoving says:

    A couple was in the store just yesterday looking at shotguns for home defense. A few minutes later I had the skeptical wife confidently hefting a Ruger AR556. “This feels really good holding this”, she said.
    We need to keep beating that drum, folks – it is America’s Rifle, it is the Family Rifle, it is what we reach for when we want something easy and up to (most) tasks.
    It is quite possibly the best tool we have to “normalize” gun ownership in America and to put the lie to what our opponents keep saying about us.
    Okay, other brands besides Ruger will work too, I guess…

    1. avatar CarlosT says:

      But Ruger is the one paying your bonus? ?

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        Hey! It’s a perfect choice, because everybody knows Ruger does not make assault weapons!

    2. avatar unknown says:

      The Ruger is 100% American Made down to the raw materials with American Labor. Really, why buy anything else. Yea, there is some other stuff that’s OK, but the Ruger seems to be the best deal.

      1. avatar Jim Macklin says:

        The Ruger AR556 is certainly a good value, a best buy. It is well made, the price is reasonable. The gun has no frills but it is complete with a 30 round magazine [in most states] and it includes sights.
        It can be tricked out, customized with off the shelf parts to fit the desire as money allows.
        A handgrip with attachments such as a flashlight or laser being common choices. Some dealers sell the AR556 $150 0ff MSRP.
        There are many good choices for ammo. Walmart may not sell any ARs but the do sell 223/5.56 frangible ammo, and other ammunition

  17. avatar BTP says:

    Funny. She talks a lot for a girl facing three felony murder counts.

    1. avatar No one of consequence says:

      I’m told that many criminals wind up incriminating themselves. We usually see or hear about it from headlines like “Drug dealer busted due to Facebook” or something like that; but this is the same sort of thing.

      I wonder if it happens as a result of lack of self-control (e.g. can’t stop talking), or a desire to make themselves seem important to someone else (e.g. won’t stop talking/posting/etc.).

      1. avatar CarlosT says:

        Both, usually. Many, many criminals are unspeakably stupid. Add to that the fact that criminality often stems from extremely short-term thinking, and the inability to delay gratification even a little. It makes for a combo that just about screams “I’m guilty” from every rooftop.

        1. avatar Chris T from KY says:

          One year and 6 months from now it will be relieved that all 4 of these criminals committed crimes that they were never caught for. They just knew they would get away with anything. They never got caught until now!!
          Bang!, Bang!, Bang!

    2. avatar bob399 says:

      Being a former military cop, I support her right to self-incriminate. You know, that 1st amendment thing. 😉

    3. avatar pcb_duffer says:

      My younger sister is a defense attorney with 20+ years of experience. Her advice to anyone being questioned by the police, or to anyone while actually incarcerated, is as follows:
      1 Be quiet
      2 Don’t say anything.
      3 SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!

  18. avatar Pwrserge says:

    Three points.

    1. I think this thoroughly debunks the idea that 5.56×45 is an inadequate cartridge.

    2. The sociopathic getaway driver needs to be strung up in public as an example to others. There’s a reason the “Wild West” had lower crime rates than NYC in the same time period. When you see scum like this strangle to death on the end of a rope, your perpencity to try and join them is nipped in the bud.

    3. What do you bet these three sub-human genetic defectives will be labeled as “victims of gun violence”?

    1. avatar Defens says:

      Usually these candlelight vigils for innocent victims get decorated up with flowers and stuffed animals. Maybe this one should have been decorated with the miscreants carcasses? Kind of like the wrecked cars of teenaged and/or drunk drivers that the fire departments display in Driver’s Ed.

      1. avatar strych9 says:

        Dead possums and other vermin perhaps?

      2. avatar DaveL says:

        Ever heard of a “Hand of Glory”? Talk about putting a whole new spin on candlelight vigils.

      3. avatar KBonLI says:

        That’s what they used to do in the “Old West” and even during the Prohibition era.
        Newspapers would print pictures of the bullet ridden bodies on the front page.

    2. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      Pwrserge,

      Regarding 5.56 x 45mm NATO as a self-defense cartridge:
      At home defense range and with expanding bullets, I think of the cartridge as being quite effective.

      Having said that, notice that two of the three wounded attackers were still functional (to a lesser or greater extent) after receiving a fatal shot. One of the attackers crawled toward the bedroom. The other ran outside. That suggests that both wounded attackers could have returned fire if they had had firearms.

      Now, we don’t know whether the defender’s bullets held together, expanded, or fragmented. If they did not expand or fragment, that might explain why the wounded attackers were still somewhat functional for a time. If the bullets did expand or fragment, then that tells me that 5.56 x 45mm NATO is underpowered in my book.

      As far as I am concerned, rifle rounds that hit anywhere close to the middle of the torso should immediately incapacitate the attacker. Saying it another way, I cannot imagine any universe where two of three wounded attackers would still be somewhat functional for several seconds after taking a single gunshot from a rifle chambered in .243 Winchester shooting expanding bullets. And yet .243 Winchester bullets have about the same muzzle velocity and basically the same (only a 9% larger) diameter, although they are roughly 50% heavier.

      1. avatar Eric in Oregon says:

        No matter the (non-explosive) caliber, anything other than a lucky head shot will leave the bad guy capable of doing *something* for at least a short period of time.

      2. avatar David Walters says:

        And that’s why I preach “two shots in quick succession center of mass and then once they’re moving one aimed shot…the head will do.”

        LF

      3. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

        That’s actually a good point.

        Although, we don’t know tge shooter’s proficiency level. Maybe he’s inexperienced and just did the best he could. Can’t blane the round for that. Also, we don’t know people’s positions at the time of firing. Maybe it’s possible that one or both of the stragglers were hit by an over penetrating bullet?

        Capacity and follow-up shots would be a major factor with multiple assailants. I can’t think of a rifle chambered in .243 that isn’t bolt action, or even break action, with a capacity of more than about five rounds. That would seem to put it at a disadvantage to an AR.

        I agree with using a heavier bullet, though, perhaps 77 grain, and hollow point.

        1. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

          You can get AR10s in .243.

        2. avatar Shallnot BeInfringed says:

          Also Browning BLR and BAR (I think), as well as a couple other magazine-fed lever & semiauto rifles. But these usually have 4-10 round box mags, so in all fairness they ARE much lower capacity than an AR platform .243.

          But you sure could empty those small magazines a lot quicker than a bolt gun!

        3. avatar KD says:

          Just finished building an AR10 in .243.

        4. avatar Andrew Lias says:

          KD:what barrel did you use for your .243 AR-10? Looking for one currently wondering who to go with.

        5. avatar Jim Macklin says:

          My nephew bought an AR in 243 Winchester a few years ago. Other tan being a little bigger in the magazine area, it is in all other respects an AR15. He can buy a new upper in 7.62×51 [ .308 ] or a number of other calibers.

          That is one of the major attributes of the Modern Sporting Rifle, it is versatility .

      4. avatar strych9 says:

        As Eric touches on, your hope for a round from most shoulder fired weapons to immediate incapacitate, while something we’d all like, generally is unrealistic.

        On top of that; faster incapacitation is what follow up shots are for but those may not always be legal because they might involve shooting someone who is no longer an immediate threat to you which is a rather serious no-no. I’m certain the guy in the house could have caused the two wounded guys to die faster by shooting them more but he may have paid the price of going to prison to get it done.

      5. avatar Badgerman says:

        I’ve shot many a deer heavier then some people with a .308 in 180 grain and 168 grain right in the boiler room. I have had some run 80 yards and die, and then some drop where they are standing. It’s not science it’s just reality. People will do the same thing, the caliber argument sometimes does reflect real life.

        1. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

          I’ve even heard of heart shot deer making it 50 yards before they drop. If a deer can make it that far a human can pull the trigger one last time before everything goes black. Unless you destroy the brain or the cord that connects it to the rest of the body there’s no guarantees.

      6. avatar Mosinfan says:

        Should have been a Thompson, everyone knows .45acp kills souls!

      7. avatar BLoving says:

        Mmm… no, I’ll disagree.- here’s why.
        Remember that the main function of a defensive firearm is to protect the holder. Function completed.
        The reason he fired his weapon was to stop the attack and survive unharmed. Function completed.
        The function of the defensive round is to make the aggressor stop their attack, either voluntarily or involuntarily. Function completed.
        Kinda hard to argue with a positive result.

        1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

          Remember that the main function of a defensive firearm is to protect the holder.

          Totally agree and I was not claiming otherwise.

          My point was that two of the mortally wounded attackers were still capable of fighting for several seconds or more. Had the attackers possessed firearms and chose to continue to engage, the defender would have still been in serious jeopardy. (Reference the Miami FBI shootout in the late 1980s where a mortally wounded criminal managed to put lethal rounds into multiple FBI agents before dying.)

          Anyhow, it was simply my observation that even a rifle did not immediately incapacitate the attackers.

      8. avatar Defens says:

        Yeah… I’m going to have to, uh, disagree with you there. Read Carlos Hathcock’s book, which contains examples of VC hanging in the wires outside various outposts, thoroughly shot up with everything from multiple 5.56 and 7.62 NATO to .50 BMG, and still alive. Not necessarily functioning very well, but in some cases well enough to counterattack, had they not been tangled up in razor wire.

        There is no guarantee of a one-shot-stop with anything less than a claymore.

        1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

          While true, we have to remember that U.S. military forces were using non-expanding full metal jacketed bullets which tend to zip right through a person. Expanding (e.g. hunting) bullets create considerably more trauma and I have to believe that the popular hunting calibers (e.g. .243 Winchester through .30-06 Springfield) would be far more devastating to a combatant.

          Of course there are no absolutes when it comes to “stopping power”. At any rate 100+ grain expanding bullets (with muzzle velocities in excess of 2,800 fps) have to be far more likely to instantly (and involuntarily) stop an attacker with one shot to the torso.

      9. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

        People are easy to kill but hard to stop. Especially if all they need to do is squeeze a trig ger to do you in.

      10. avatar M2AP says:

        Some solid copper hunting bullets would also do a great job of staying together while punching through the target.

        1. avatar Big Bill says:

          “Some solid copper hunting bullets would also do a great job of staying together while punching through the target.”
          Which is precisely what you do not want.
          What you do want is the bullet expending as much of its energy IN the target as possible.

      11. avatar michael adams says:

        have to agree that nothing less than a head or spinal shot gives any kind of instant stop certainty. I recall reading about an incident some years ago, man shot by a cop in his driveway at point blank in the chest with a 12 gauge. literally blew his heart out of his chest, and onto the driveway. he then slugged the cop, breaking his jaw, turned and ran 30 yards back to his house, locked the door, ran to the bathroom, locked the door, then dropped over dead, with his shredded mangled heart still laying in the driveway, and no drugs in his system.

    3. avatar No one of consequence says:

      1. Well, I for one would rather avoid getting shot with it.

      2. Yep. But that’s cruel and unusual, don’t you know. (Now, how a punishment that’s not by definition somehow cruel and unusual, can in fact be a punishment, is something perhaps better discussed over a fine beverage.)

      3. Heh. No bet – already happening (as per Grampa Thuggo)

    4. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Serge, you know perfectly well that if you commit suicide with a gun, it is lumped in with “victims of gun violence”.

    5. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

      ‘I think this thoroughly debunks the idea that 5.56×45 is an inadequate cartridge.’

      Adequate and optimal have two very different meanings. There’s also a big difference between what’s optimal for home defense as opposed to a military battle weapon.

    6. avatar unknown says:

      I totally support public hangings; just thinking that might be YOU dangling there if you went ahead with your idea of a criminal life would have to be a strong deterrent.. If you decide otherwise you know the consequence. And in cases like these where there is no doubt, get it done ASAP.

    7. avatar Matt in SC says:

      “2. The sociopathic getaway driver needs to be strung up in public as an example to others.”

      “We’re gonna need a bigger rope”…..

  19. avatar Ragnarredbeard says:

    I will never understand why we let people like this continue to breathe. Take her out behind the courthouse and put a bullet in her head.

  20. avatar fteter says:

    A candle light vigil for the three perps? Seems like a waste of good candles to me.

    1. avatar anonymoose says:

      Sounds like something that should be protested with bullhorns.

  21. avatar uncommon_sense says:

    Anyone notice the colossally misleading and manipulative wording in the Tulsa World source article:

    A candlelight vigil for three teenagers who were fatally shot during a break-in at a Wagoner County home …

    First of all, that bit of wordsmithing suggests that the three teenagers were the home occupants and thus victims of “gun violence”. Second, what those teenagers did was not a “break-in”, it was an armed home invasion. Talk about sleazy “journalism” … if we can even call it that.

  22. avatar Dan l says:

    Armed or not if you go into someone elses property you would be a fool to expect some law to keep you from getting killed. And only bigger fools would want that kind of law.

  23. avatar Dave Lewis says:

    One local news story called her the “mastermind” behind the crime. The other three must have been very dim bulbs indeed if she was the brains of the outfit. Too bad the shooter couldn’t go 4 for 4.

  24. avatar MouseGun says:

    Love how the ther side of the debate has been quiet about this.
    I shudder to think what would have happened if one of the perpetrators was African American. It would have all the attributes of a BLM “Reasons to start riots” check list: white shooter, middle America, scary black rifle. We would have seen HuffPo and the like spouting headlines to the tune of “Racist bigot trump loving flyover country trigger happy knuckle dragger (probably transphobic as well) shoots innocent black teen with weapon of War.”

    1. avatar NorincoJay says:

      Yep pretty much

    2. avatar J says:

      one looks like a mulatto……

  25. avatar Mike says:

    Grandpa Schumaker only doesn’t agree with it when it’s HIS grandson on the receiving end of an AR-15.

  26. avatar anonymoose says:

    “Coulda shot them boys in the leg”
    I wish he had shot you in the face, you stupid b*tch. Of course women like her all vote D.

  27. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

    “He’s on the bottom of my list to be compassionate for,” Rodriguez said.”

    And I’ll have no compassion for your rather obtuse rear when it’s strapped into the “chair”.

    1. avatar DaveL says:

      I think it’s going to have to be more of a “bench”, of not a “love seat.”

      1. avatar Curtis in IL says:

        She might lose a pound or two on the prison diet between now and then.

        1. avatar PDW says:

          Doubtful. Andrea Yates, Darlie Routier, Jeffrey Dahmer, Henry Lee Lucas, Eddie Routh ( the Marine who killed Chris Kyle ) David Berkowitz all packed on the fat once behind bars.
          She’s not the hardcore gang member who pumps iron and does hundreds of burpees a day to stay rock hard.

          She’ll definitely grow some extra chins.

      2. avatar J says:

        forklift.

    2. avatar jwm says:

      I feel sorry for the guys that’ll have to unstick her greasy ass off the chair and stuff it into a body bag.

      They ought to use a whole can of pam on that rig before they strap her in.

  28. avatar DaveL says:

    They should update the signs at the county line.

    “Welcome to Broken Arrow County

    Arrow broken – please use rifle”

  29. avatar Jon in CO says:

    And in other news, Nevada trying to pass a law that would’ve given the home invaders rights to sue the homeowner/defender for shooting them during the home invasion.

    Nevada Senate Bill 254.

    1. avatar No one of consequence says:

      Isn’t that the “we recommend a mag dump” bill, in effect?

    2. avatar WhiteDevil says:

      The individuals who introduced this bill should all be given a free bullet between the eyes. What possible rationale justifies emboldening criminals to sue their victims for defending themselves from said criminals? Pieces of human shit.

  30. avatar Bill says:

    The grandfather is the last one who should talk. He’s a convicted felon, according to some sources, which have him pleading guilty violent crimes in the 1990s.

    They decided they wanted to be gangsters, they got a gangster end. I’m just sorry the one who had to defend himself will have to live with that. But better he have to live with it, than not to live.

  31. avatar Red in CO says:

    God these people are stupid. As to the argument that he didn’t need to/shouldn’t have killed them, that’s just absurd. The original article mentions that the gunfire only started after an “exchange of words”. Presumably, the man already had his rifle ready when the words were exchanged, and that failed to dissuade these wannabes. Based on that and their ages, we can reasonably assume they were more driven by bravado and proving how tough they (thought they) were than any kind of criminal pragmatism. Now, if he had simply winged one of them, or killed one and had the other two scatter, what would have happened?

    Now, as a bit of background, when i was younger I fell in with a bad crowd. I managed not to involve myself in anything bad, and I eventually got away from that. However, as a result of that, I probably have a better understanding of the criminal mindset (from a ground level perspective rather than a cop’s) than most of the folks on this board. So, assuming even one of them had the level of ruthlessness they thought they did (bringing deadly weapons on a job without having the will to use them is one of the stupidest things that punk-ass criminals do), and assuming they weren’t immediately caught, there’s a not-insignificant chance they would have come back to the dude’s house, tooled up, and gone in with the intent of executing him.

    Given the degree of foresight and criminal professionalism they showed, I’d say it’s unlikely any of them would have had the balls to actually do that, and if they did, they probably would have botched the attempt anyway. HOWEVER: criminal violence largely works on the principles of escalation and retaliation. Should you ever find yourself in a self-defense situation, ESPECIALLY if it’s against gang bangers, remember that.

  32. avatar NorincoJay says:

    This individual may have saved someone from being raped or killed by one of these juvenile delinquencies down the road.

    1. avatar unknown says:

      I have said this many times, if someone does not stop these thugs, they just get more & more brazen & conduct more violent crimes for the thrill. More criminals need to have their careers seriously shortened, and NOT by sending them to ‘criminal fishing school’, aka: prison. Personally know of a case where a thug was released from prison & within the 1st week he got two accomplices & a weapon to knock off a gas station/convenience store. Some poor woman in her 50’s trying to scrape by getting a 2nd job (must not have been a D) gets killed by this pile of garbage. This was a place I often stopped at, wish I would have been there that night, headlines hopefully would have been very much different.

  33. avatar JoeVK says:

    A burglar/home invader getting gunned down by a home owner or resident is really just suicide by proxy.

  34. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

    ‘They knew they could be punished for it but they did not deserve to die…’

    They got exactly what they deserved. That’s like saying someone who jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge didn’t deserve to die.

  35. avatar tjlarson2k says:

    Never go full retard.

  36. avatar JC says:

    Brass knuckles and a knife? Hell, I’d have shot them if they were unarmed. Clear disparity of force situation … 3 on 1 … during a home invasion. The hand-held contact weapons are just icing on the cake.

  37. avatar Ted Unlis says:

    The ridiculous “make my day” nickname is a negative reference cooked up by liberal anti-gun activist and journalist to disparage statutes often referred to as “castle doctrine” or “stand your ground laws” which permit the use of deadly force in specific circumstances without a duty to retreat requirement in response to the imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury.

    The use of deadly force to stop a residential burglary in progress or home invasion would be justifiable independent of so called “stand your ground” statutes since there never has been a duty to retreat in Oklahoma and most other pro-gun States when a person is cornered in a residence and confronted by felons breaking into or invading that domicile.

    The maligning of this burglary/home invasion victim by the producers of Inside Edition with the Dirty Harry analogy is both shameful and libelous.

  38. avatar Chip in Florida says:

    “…A candlelight vigil for three teenagers who were fatally shot during a break-in ”

    This makes me weep for the fate of humanity.

    A candlelight vigil for three people killed while committing a felony offense? Really?

    1. avatar Ted Unlis says:

      However lame a candlelight vigil for 3 thugs dressed like ninjas and committing a home invasion at the time of their demise, a certain demographic in liberal strongholds such as Baltimore would be burning down their own hoods and demanding unjust retribution by their DA who would eagerly hammer the burglary victim. The 3 dead felons were oblivious that residential burglary/home invasion can be hazardous to your health in Oklahoma and most of the South. They also were oblivious that living like a gangster means you damn well might die like a gangster.

  39. avatar Tal says:

    “but I’m not going to be sorry he shot somebody.”

    Elizabeth is a bright one…..

  40. I’d tell Elizabeth Rodriguez to FOAD, however, TTAG is NSFJ (not suitable for jail).

  41. avatar glenux says:

    First, I feel no compassion for the Grandfather.
    .
    As a matter of fact I hold him partially responsible for his grandson’s actions
    for not only participating in the crime but also hanging out with people who would have gotten him to commit other crimes.
    “Train a child…”- The Bible.
    Second, the Grandfather, Roderigez, and Anti-gunners don’t understand the Oklahoma Law which is based on the
    concept of the Castle Doctrine which existed for a thousand years.
    What don’t you understand about he concept the if you breach the seal on my home, I get to use the Reasonable Assumption that you are there to use Lethal Force on me and so I get to use Deadly Force to Stop?
    Third,
    Rodriguez should have an attorney by now who should have told her to keep her mouth shut and especially do no interviews because ANYTHING she says can and WILL be used against her in a court of law.
    When she said,

    “I understand he was scared, had every right, he has his rights, has his rights, I’m understanding of him. I affected his life, I’m sorry, but am I compassionate for him? He’s on the bottom of my list to be compassionate for,” Rodriguez said.”
    She is digging her own grave.
    The other factor about the law she does not fully understand yet is that allows a prosecutor to charge her with murder as if she stepped in a murderer shoes and shot those boys herself.
    This law is similar to the idea that you can use a gun to defend yourself, but you can also
    use a gun to defend someone else. However,if you wear the guilt or innocence of the person you are defending.
    For the court and the jury’s sake from the shooters point of view he considered completely innocent in committing justifiable homicide.
    But for Rodriguez because she participated in the crime she will be stepping in the shoes of the guilty boys as having committed the crime of murder herself.

    So when she says that she has no compassion for the shooter who is the actual victim in this case shows she is getting bad legal advice and making it easier to charge her not only or participating in the crime of burglary, but also charging with 3 Counts of First Degree Murder.
    Is she going to get the Death Penalty? I doubt it.
    But she is going to spend the rest of her life in prison.
    I am not an attorney, but that’s just how I see the law and what the jury will likely do.

  42. avatar Chris says:

    Sorry if this posts twice.

    I hope this wins the content contest.

    Several things jumped out at me as I read it, they’re re-occurring themes:
    1. You are your own first responder, whether you recognize it and train for it or not.

    2. Your right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness end when you attempt to take those three from me.

    3. The absolute fail of the Progressive Left’s spin on defensive gun use.

    4. The AR15 is *that* effective for home defense (suck-it, Joe “buy a double barrel shotgun and fire it in the air” Biden).

  43. avatar Mike W. says:

    ***UPDATE*****
    STILL dead, no longer stupid.
    1 more hopefully dead after trial and death penalty after being stupid.

  44. avatar PDW says:

    Elizabeth reminds me of how Ronda Rousey will probably look after she retires from mma.

  45. avatar Patrick D says:

    If they didn’t break into that house, they would be alive today, end of story Schumacher.

  46. avatar Fafhrd of Lankhmar says:

    Somebody should gift the shooter with one of those “Congratulations, that door you just kicked in was there for YOUR protection.” t-shirts.

  47. avatar Gunr says:

    The home defender could have used a “triple” barreled shot gun, per Joe Biden, oh, you say Joe only has a “double” barreled shotgun!

    Too bad! Looks like the third dude might do him in! What do say about that, Joe?

  48. avatar FLResident says:

    You know what would have made it a “fair” fight? Not breaking into someone’s house would have made it fair. Actions have consequences. These boys just didn’t consider what the real consequences of their actions might be, but they found out the hard way.

  49. avatar DONALD TAYLOR says:

    ONE THING , ASK A POLICE OFFICER ABOUT THE 21′ RULE IN DEALING WITH A SUBJECT WITH A KNIFE .

  50. avatar Mikial says:

    You violently break into someone else’s home, you have to realize there’s going to be consequences. Period. Criminals. That’s all they were and they died as they lived . . . as criminals.

  51. avatar Michael says:

    Give that young man a trophy

  52. avatar Caligula says:

    The Darwin effect.

  53. avatar Not known says:

    A wise person once told me that when you talk cruelly about the dead, you do nothing to reinforce your notions about that person; in fact, you only risk blemishing your own reputation. Let the dead be dead. Not all criminals deserve death. And to be clear, two of the deceased were minors. Think about where you were mentally when you were younger and dumber as well as how much youve changed.

    Theres a certain strain of consequentialism endemic in the particular displayed rationales of those who rabidly defend 2a with inhumane resolve. I find it paradoxical and unjustified. Perhaps i need to be enlightened…

    1. avatar Dave M says:

      “Think about where you were mentally when you were younger and dumber as well as how much you’ve changed.” I was going to school, on the honor roll & had 3 different self employed jobs. And I unfortunately lived in a crime ridden public housing development. YOU CAN BETTER YOURSELF. There is NO excuse to part of the problem.

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