Quote of the Day: That Delicate Balance Between Safety and Constitutional Rights

“All we’re asking for is reasonable protections before a person loses their constitutional rights. We’re all for protecting domestic violence victims from being harmed. We’re not for throwing the baby out with the bathwater, which is the constitution.” – Kim Stolfer in Gun Deaths Grimly Common After Protection Orders [via usnews.com]

comments

  1. avatar Chris Mallory says:

    Judging by the number of people, in the Ohio Killer thread, who want to do away with trials and protections for the accused, it would appear that Constitutional protections are not very important to the readers of this site.

    1. avatar Chip Bennett says:

      I’ve not read that thread. That said: constitutional rights of the accused are a matter with which to be concerned after the accused is no longer an active threat.

      1. avatar Joe in San Antonio says:

        I would hope they are respected in the capture as well. I live in fear of the day that a goverment can say that someone is a threat and strip them of their rights.

        1. avatar Chip Bennett says:

          Capture is irrelevant, unless and until the threat is stopped. I doubt the next innocent, would-be victim that this evil-incarnate person puts in mortal fear is going to have capture in mind.

    2. avatar Stoney Man says:

      Constitutional virtue signaling. Interesting.

      I’m sure a number of the readers of this site understand that just because something is “against the law” doesn’t mean it is wrong on any number of levels.

      1. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

        I’ve noticed that most (in general, not necessarily here) equate illegal with immoral and legal with moral when arguing for or against a law/policy.

        I find a great many things immoral that I vehemently oppose legislation against. I find a few things morally neutral that I vehemently support legislation on. It matters more that we all agree as to which side of the road to drive on than which side of the road is morally superior.

  2. Sorry, But your false “right” to murder and oppress us does not trump our constitutional right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

    Restraining orders work, They keep wrong party from obtaining illegal weapons.

    Owning a gun is a useless security theater.

    The right to be safe is a right not to be tampered with ever.

    The american people should not be afraid of everyday being possibly their last day on earth.

    Parents shouldn’t have to fear losing their children to an NRA-sponsored nut job when said sicko attacks a place.

    People shouldn’t have to fear for losing their friends or family when some nutbag who is using his false “right” to kill as many people as he/she pleases.

    This does not happen in the rest of the world on a constantly daily basis.

    1. avatar DaveR says:

      You sure live in a lot of fear relative the statistically minuscule likelihood of the scenarios of which you are afraid.

      1. avatar Ollie says:

        FLAME DELETED

        In many cases, restraining orders just delay an inevitable end result, the perp will simply use a legal weapon, their fists.

      2. avatar Timothy says:

        The Resistance is my favorite! There’s no way he’s actually a Bloomberg paid troll. He’s like the Onion, but for just gun stuff. Just look at his implications that every 2A supporting person is or wants to be a murderer. He’s not trying to change minds, he’s cementing pro gun people together. It’s great.

    2. avatar Waffensammler98 says:

      *thumbs through constitution and bill of rights*

      Nnnnnope, I don’t see a “right to be safe” anywhere in here.

    3. avatar Chip Bennett says:

      Restraining orders work…

      Where? Unicornland?

      1. avatar Geoff PR says:

        This Rodney Dangerfield clip is an outstanding example of the stark difference between a Progressive ideal, all full of good feels and higher-education college theory, and the Conservative reality of how it will inevitably turn out:

        1. avatar Geoff PR says:

          As a bonus, after that clip plays, click on Sam Kinison’s face in the lower-left corner for an astute observation on the result of not dealing with Vietnam and Korea 50+ years back.

          (I *really* miss Sam Kinison…)

    4. avatar FLResident says:

      >>Restraining orders work, They keep wrong party from obtaining illegal weapons.

      Guess that explains all the people who are killed by then people the person have a restraining order against

      >>Owning a gun is a useless security theater.

      Let me fix that typo for you “Restraining orders are useless security theater.” A piece of paper will not protect you

      >>The right to be safe is a right not to be tampered with ever.

      There is no “right” to be safe, only a right to protect yourself in the event that another attempts to harm you

      >>The american people should not be afraid of everyday being possibly their last day on earth.

      That’s “American” with a capital “A”. Everyday is potentially everyone’s last day on Earth. If you live in constant fear that it is, that says more about you than the world around you.

      >>Parents shouldn’t have to fear losing their children to an NRA-sponsored nut job when said sicko attacks a place. People shouldn’t have to fear for losing their friends or family when some nutbag who is using his false “right” to kill as many people as he/she pleases.

      Unreasonable fear seems to be a big issue for you, you really need to see a competent therapist about that or you’ll never actually live and enjoy life. You also should also probably learn to communicate without the hyperbole, it makes you seem like a socialist-sponsored “nutbag”

    5. avatar Lyle says:

      The Constitution does not specify any “right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness”, nor confer or guarantee any right to “murder and oppress”. You should read it carefully and the source document you quote, which is the Declaration of Independence. The Declaration has no force of Law. The Constitution does and guarantees “the right of the people to keep and bear Arms”, specifying that right “shall not be infringed”. Your initial, grossly uninformed statement is invalid and your subsequent assertions and statements are also false and grossly misinformed. You ought to change your moniker to “The_Grossly_Ignorant” because all you are resisting is any demonstration of intellect and knowledge of what you are talking about. But, then, that is typical of your ilk.

    6. avatar Reggie Browning says:

      Hey, you’re back. And you’re making a bunch of statements that you proclaim to be true because you proclaim them to be true, as always.

    7. avatar Dwi23 says:

      Once upon a time there lived three billy goats. The goats needed to travel to the next town to visit a friend. They began their walk and made it a point to greet every stranger and drifter with a polite smile and handshake. Soon, the billy goats came upon an old decrepit bridge. As soon as they set foot on the bridge a voice thundered “I am the Troll of this bridge, turn back or I will eat you!”. Now billy goats may be mild mannered and polite, but they also are not big fans of getting eaten by trolls. The billy goats continued to carefully cross the bridge. Suddenly the troll lept onto the far side of the bridge and began rushing toward our billy goat friends, mouth open and drooling. He screamed in a strange language and rambled nonsense. The billy goats were certain they were about to meet their end! Then one of the goats noticed the troll was holding a keyboard over his pointy drooly head. He told his brothers “Take courage, the troll cannot eat us when his mouth is so full of bullshit!”. And the goats began to laugh and continued across the bridge. As they passed the troll and crossed over to the land on the far side of the bridge the troll looked up at them and muttered to himself “Why does this keep happening to me?” The goats turned and told the troll he was welcome to join them on their trip if he could promise not to harm them. The troll cursed at the goats and crawled back under the bridge. And the goats bought some guns and lived happily ever after.

    8. avatar TheUnspoken says:

      >Restraining orders work, They keep wrong >party from obtaining illegal weapons.

      I thought illegal weapons were purchased on the black market, stolen, from “a buddy”, etc. The black market does background checks for restraining orders now? Cool, maybe they support universal background checks now!

      “Hey buddy, I can sell you these pills, but you have a restraining order, so no deal on the MAC-10 or hipoint you asked about…”

    9. avatar ACP_arms says:

      concernedamerican welcome back! concernedamerican is the screen name you used before, right?

    10. avatar Planet_Federal_Way_Twax_City says:

      “The american people should not be afraid of everyday being possibly their last day on earth.”

      Regardless of country of residence that should always be a concern. Something to always keep in the back of your mind, your ticket could get punched at any moment and odds are it won’t be gun related. At least here in the US.

    11. avatar gargoil says:

      ugh, sigh, another Lib-tard

    12. avatar Aaron says:

      to “the troll”, er, I mean, “the_resistance”: your post is a jumbled word salad of incomplete thoughts.

      The NRA does not sponsor whatever it is that you think it sponsors.

      maybe you should point out specific policies that you think would accomplish your objectives.

      of course, first you have to be able to actually articulate your objectives. I’m looking forward to reading what you are REALLY after, because I’m pretty sure it’s not what you pretend.

    13. avatar Aaron says:

      To The Troll, er, I mean “the_resistance”, I forgot to add something to my previous reply.

      When you state, “This does not happen in the rest of the world on a constantly daily basis”, are you aware that Mexico has much stricter gun control than anyplace in America and yet has a much higher murder rate?

      are you aware that Russia has much stricter gun control than anyplace in America and yet has a much higher murder rate?

      are you aware that Brazil has much stricter gun control than anyplace in America and yet has a much higher murder rate?

      are you aware that Jamaica is an ISLAND that has much stricter gun control than anyplace in America and yet has a much higher murder rate? Their murder rate hit 12 times the US national average around 2005.

      are you aware that the Islamo-fascist terrorist in Nice, France killed about 3 times more people with a truck than were killed in the worst mass shooting in American history?

      And we aren’t even talking about the places having civil wars, ethnic cleansings/pogroms, or the Islamic State yet.

    14. avatar Matt(Tx) says:

      Lotsa feelz, no facts @the_resistance is just another libtard troll.

  3. avatar Russ in AK says:

    Please provide citations for the following, presumably found in the US Constitution:

    1. The right to “murder and oppress”.

    2. The right to “be safe”.

    3. The right to “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”.

    Otherwise, FLAME DELETED The difference is, we are defending rights that are *actually* enshrined in the Constitution.

  4. avatar Turd Furgeson says:

    Ahhh yes, the stale retort that “this doesn’t happen in the rest of the world blah blah blah…”

    LMAO

    1. avatar Ollie says:

      Is the abused woman shot to death in the US any deader than the Aussie or British woman beaten to death with bare hands ?????

    2. avatar Joe in San Antonio says:

      But this does
      https://euobserver.com/foreign/137521
      And this
      http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/786624/china-veil-beard-ban-xinjiang-muslim-uighur-religious-extremism
      And this
      http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/03/25/what-s-really-behind-india-s-rape-crisis.html
      Oh and this too
      http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/british-official-south-sudan-violence-tribal-genocide-46768427

      And I didn’t even link articles to Isis attacks in Syrian and Iraq, French martial law, the drug war in Mexico, extra judicial killing in the Philippians, or turkeys complete suppression of rival parties. But yeah then again America sucks.

  5. avatar Reggie Browning says:

    Hey, you’re back. And you’re making a bunch of statements that you proclaim to be true because you proclaim them to be true, as always.

  6. avatar Ironhead says:

    You seem to be very afraid for someone who never leaves his mom’s basement. Let me guess it’s the scary guns??????
    Go outside get some sun. It will help you feel better. And I’d be willing to bet you won’t get shot. Unless you live in a gun control paradise. Then all bets are off.

  7. avatar Buzz Word says:

    A few years back, in a nearby county, two motorcycle gang members attempted to attack a former girlfriend of one of the members. She pulled out a revolver and shot one of them in the leg. The DA applauded her actions because it probably saved her life. The bad guys never returned for an encore performance.

    A revolver beats any restraining order I know of.

  8. avatar Cliff H says:

    A restraining order has exactly one useful benefit – it establishes a legal climate in which it is agreed that the person obtaining the restraining order has a legitimate fear of death or grievous bodily harm from a particular person and/or his friends and acquaintances. It in no way provides any other protection to the recipient.

    Self-defense at this point remains the responsibility of the individual, but at least now they have some legal defense should it become necessary to utilize lethal force in their own defense.

    Barring the acceptance of this personal responsibility to defend yourself to the best of your ability (or in too many cases, to the best of your willingness) a restraining order has exactly the same ability to protect you as the Gun Free Zone signs on any place or business, that is, ZERO. The only thing it MIGHT protect you from is prosecution if you defend yourself.

    1. avatar Aaron says:

      “Gun Free Zones: Serving Mass Shooters Since Luby’s!” – I should trademark that!

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