Cincinnati Nightclub Shooting: 1 Dead, 15 Injured

“An unidentified shooter opened fire at [Cincinnati’s Cameo] nightclub early Sunday,” foxnews.com reports, “killing one person and wounding 14 others. The shooter escaped the melee and remained on the run Sunday.” Responding to the incident, Capt. Kim Williams won the award for understatement, and gave an indication of the kind of nightclub involved . . .

“Saturday night, it is a very young crowd,” Williams said. “We have had incidents here in the past, but this is by far the worst.” . . .

“The biggest problem when you have a large crowd like this and the shots ring out, a lot of the witnesses disappear,” Williams said.

Police are not treating the shooting as a terrorist incident. According to latimes.com, “Authorities believe a conflict began earlier in the day that led to the shooting.” While they investigate, Ohio pols are busy praying for the victims and thanking first responders.

Needless to say, the gun control industrial complex — also busy tweeting and ‘booking their condolences — will use the Cameo shooting as an opportunity to promote their civilian disarmament agenda.

A comment underneath the Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America Facebook page gives us a preview of their response to any suggestion that patrons inside the club should have been able to respond to the lethal threat with a self-defense firearm:

Thank God for gun control! Or not.

comments

  1. avatar Mark says:

    Havent heard whether the nightclub posted banning lawful carry, but Ohio doesn’t prohibit carrying in bars. Though those who carry cant drink alcohol.

    1. avatar Echo5 Bravo says:

      According to Fox news there were pat downs as well as wanding at each entrance, and firearms were prohibited.

      1. avatar Huntmaster says:

        Several off Duty Police Officers were there to provide security. Fifteen wounded, one dead and the perps get away. Dozens of witnesses. I am sure the police officers did all they could. Again, it’s not the police officer’s job to protect you. They simply can’t. Especially when you are in stupid places, with stupid people, doing stupid things. It’s to the point where in many places, they aren’t even allowed or able, to protect themselves.

        1. avatar Dev says:

          Several off duty police officers provided security and yet some psycho still managed to shoot 14 people??? What the hell were the cops doing as security??

        2. avatar Glenux says:

          Dev,
          I think you said the most appropriate response, yet.

          “Several off duty police officers provided security and yet some psycho still managed to shoot 14 people???
          What the hell were the cops doing as security??”

        3. avatar Mr. Pierogie says:

          @Dev I don’t know what those cops were doing, but I can tell you what the cops at my local movie theater in NJ do: they are constantly on their phones, face-booking, messaging etc. They’re usually leaning against a wall or against a customer service desk, not paying attention to anything else. I’d like to take this opportunity to once again thank the New Jersey government, in their infinite stupidity, for disarming me and putting me and my loved ones at the mercy of these idiots who cannot be bothered to get off their fu<king phones while on the job.

      2. avatar Scottlac says:

        My guess is the pat downs and wandings are only at the public entrances. That’s where the security theater happens. There are usually lots of other places to come through if you’re determined enough.

      3. avatar Merlin says:

        So, how in the world could the shooting happen if the firearms were prohibited and the “trained professionals” conducted pat downs and wanding?

        Isn’t this sort of thing something that never happens in “Gun-Free Zones” (and other countries)?

      4. avatar Merlin says:

        How in the world could a shooting happen in a place where firearms are prohibited and where those “trained professionals” conduct pad downs and wanding?

        I thought this kind of thing never happens in “Gun-Free Zones” (nor in other countries)?

      5. avatar todd says:

        I saw on the news that you could pay more to bypass the wanding process. It is the news, so accuracy is optional.

    2. avatar Kimberwarrior45 says:

      Mark it is still illegal to carry into ‘bars’ in Ohio but now legal to carry into restaurants that serve alcohol, just don’t sit at the bar there.

  2. avatar former water walker says:

    Stupid people stupid places…and young. Been there did that. And I did all that unarmed.

  3. Another sad day….I’m getting tired of hearing these incidents.

    You people try to cite how the incident in the UK is “proof” that gun control doesn’t work when it did. It stop a maniac from obtain illegal weapon and the police were able contain the situation before it got completely out of control.

    The people and police of the UK made it clear they do not want to be armed.

    It’s easier to run, survive or fight back against a nut-bar wielding with a knife, baseball, 2×4, length of chain, a section of pipe or a pair of scissors than a nut-bar with a gun.

    An armed society is a oppressive one.

    1. avatar Echo5 Bravo says:

      Except for the people he ran over and killed. But there not as “dead” as the guy who was shot in Ohio right?

      1. What happened in the UK was a once in a blue moon incident. The situation would’ve been worse if the UK relax their laws.

        And the police were able to stop it before it got out of control.

        This does not compare to the dozens of hundreds of mass shootings that happen everyday in the US. And this incident here and the one I post days ago prove my point. But your delusional racists propaganda master Robert farrago likes to ignore or try to down play these as they don’t support the debunked agenda of “good guys with guns”.

        1. avatar TStew says:

          Dozens of hundreds? Methinks maths, much like grammar and critical thinking, is not your strong suit.

        2. avatar Robert Farago says:

          Jesus man, did you not read my reply in the post on the British attack? Or did you read it and ignore it?

          I get so tired of gun control advocates who leave their dross on this site and refuse to engage in civilized debate.

        3. avatar Ironhead says:

          Forgot about the bus in France?
          Go troll the world of war craft blogs. The only thing you are resistant to is reality.

        4. avatar Dave says:

          I spend too much time looking at news on the internets. Nevertheless, I have managed to miss the dozen, hundreds or dozens of hundreds of mass shootings that happen every day in the US. Please do me a favor and pick out any day where 12 or more mass shootings have occured here and list them so we can verify. Then, since it happens daily, go ahead list the next day’s dozen-plus shootings. Or come off like a blow hard, evidence-free all-emotion if-I-think-so-it-must-be-true internet troll.

        5. avatar TStew says:

          There’s nothing “civilized” going on with the army of trolls, RF. As an example, your family’s history matters little to people like this; if you don’t agree with their line of thinking you are a racist, a neo-NAZI and a fascist that should be eliminated. Never mind what the real NAZIs did to your family, never mind that you’ve publicly advocated that the Second Amendment is for people of all races, religions and persuasions, there’s an agenda to carry forward and the truth doesn’t matter.

        6. avatar Dave says:

          Ooops! I am so sorry! I re-read the post by The Resistance and realized I missed the part where he called RF a racist. Under leftist internet forum rule #1, the first one to call the other person “racist” in a disagreement wins. No need to prove anything, involve logic, etc. Once you’ve used that ad hominem, you don’t have to do anything else to claim victory. My bad.

        7. avatar Merlin says:

          RF, with all due respect, I understand and fully support the Free Speech right for all, but… Why do you let the obvious troll pollute otherwise great site?

        8. avatar Reggie Browning says:

          Says there are dozens of hundreds of mass shootings every day – Provides no evidence.
          Says Robert Farago is a racist – provides no evidence.
          Says “good guys with guns” is debunked. – provides no evidence.

          Well, can’t argue if there is nothing to argue against. And before you say it. “It has been proven so many times that I shouldn’t have to show you the evidence. Look it up yourself.” is not a very good argument. You make a claim, you provide evidence for that claim. That’s how an argument works.

        9. avatar Huntmaster says:

          Troll

        10. avatar DrewR says:

          More people were killed in mass shootings in France in 2015 than were killed in mass shootings in the USA between 2008 and 2016. France has stricter gun laws than the UK. This one fact alone disproves the hypothesis that strict gun laws prevent gun crime. The USA has a problem with gang crime, not gun crime, as the annual breakdown of violent crimes clearly demonstrates. No one on either side of the political spectrum want to confront gang crime for fear of being labeled racist, when it is Leftist racist policies that led to the growth of gangs in America.

          I doubt you will even consider this, because you only believe what you see on tv, but if one discounts four cities in the United States -Chicago, Detroit, LA, and DC -the US has a lower violent crime rate than Belgium, which is much lower than the UK.

        11. avatar Icabod says:

          “dozens of hundreds?”
          Too often people make claims and nobody questions the facts. Last December the anti-gun group “everytown for gun safety” claimed that there had been “Over 200 school schhotings since Sandy Hook.” That’s to media echo chamber, this claim has been repeated and passed on without any critical examination. It’s passed on as it matches people’s prejudices.
          An examination was done. The claim falls flat.
          What’s a school shooting? Most will say, during school, in the building and students involved. Fair enough? How about summer vacation when the school is close and after school hours? Every town counts that as a “school shooting.” How about a non student that kills themselves when the school is closed? A criminal that flees police by driving through a college campus (no shoots fired)?
          In shoot claims of “dozens of hundreds” cannot be accepted.

          https://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/12/16/audit-everytowns-200-school-shootings-since-sandy-hook/
          http://www.theleafchronicle.com/story/news/crime/2015/07/14/new-arrest-made-clarksville-murder/30148371/

        12. avatar jwm says:

          How do your dozens of hundreds of mass shootings compare to the hundreds of thousands of defensive gun uses daily in this country?

          Hundreds of thousands saved every day by armed citizens.

        13. avatar DaveL says:

          Listen, it was your to tie this back to the attack on London. It’s hardly our fault that the latter had 5 deaths and 50 wounded, versus 1 dead and 15 wounded here.

        14. avatar Button Gwinnet says:

          Mass shooting = At least 4 killed. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shooting
          Dozens = At least 24 (2 x 12 = 24)
          Hundreds = At least 200 (2 x 100 = 200)
          “Dozens of hundred of mass shootings every day >= 24x200x4 >= 19,200.
          19,200 x 365 = 7,008,000 per year.

          Seven million deaths in mass shootings per year? You are a mouth-breathing, 55 IQ literal MORON who has replaced whatever sorry excuse for brains he ever had with a sack of steer manure. Not even bullshit – because buulshit has traces of testosterone. Go suck an egg.

      2. avatar Huntmaster says:

        Don’t even try to reason with someone who actually describes an incident where five people die and over forty are injured as one in which “the police were able to contain the situation before it got completely out of control.” They’ve simply been out to lunch way to long to ever find their way back.

        1. avatar Reggie Browning says:

          Huntmaster- They’re also cherry picking evidence. They’re using the British terrorist attack and ignoring the crap that happened in France where the gun laws utterly and completely failed.

          And even then if they consider the thing that happened in the UK as being “stopped before it got completely out of control.” We could just point to the OSU terrorist attack where nobody died because an armed police officer was present to stop it before it actually got out of control.

    2. avatar John Locke says:

      And in the meanwhile, as people are being brutalized, they have to continue to be brutalized until those who have been deemed the “privileged few” by the crown in the use of firearms to show up and put the attacker down.

      1. And meanwhile the attack at the UK will strengthen the proud people with the resolve they need to fight against evil.

        Your “belief” that the UK has a higher crime than us is complete and other horse manure.

        The citizens there made it clear they do not want to be armed and neither do the police as it would make situations a lot worse.

        And from what I hear in the UK, It’s easier to get a shotgun cert provided you do not have a criminal record or suffer from mental health problems and provided you keep the weapon locked in a safe at all times. Gee, I wonder how that is considered “tyrannical”?

        1. avatar dsreno says:

          You can get an internet posting license if you don’t have a criminal record or a mental illness. You have to keep your computer locked in a secure enclosure in your house. There is an authorized Internet cafe, that is an hour drive from your house, where you can securely transport your computer and post supervised comments. Comments posted from outside of an authorized cafe carry steep penalties, including computer confiscation and addition to the prohibited persons list.

          Does that sound tyrannical? Gun ownership is a right in our country. Rights don’t mean a whole lot these days, but you’ll have to get rid of the 2nd Amendment if you really want your utopia.

        2. avatar Huntmaster says:

          Troll

        3. avatar Bob Jones says:

          If T.R.’s house does not have a “GUN FREE HOME” sigh on the front, then he is a hypocrite.

        4. avatar bobo says:

          “And from what I hear in the UK, It’s easier to get a shotgun cert provided you do not have a criminal record or suffer from mental health problems and provided you keep the weapon locked in a safe at all times. Gee, I wonder how that is considered “tyrannical”?”

          so if your just normal crazy like you –its a little harder but you still get a shotgun?

        5. avatar Mark N. says:

          England may not have much of a problem with “gun violence,” as that term is (mis)used by the antis, but check out their violent crime rate, especially violent crime with knives. The information is available on line from the British Home Office. And when comparing those statistics to the FBI statistics, also available on line, be aware that the Brits crimes stats are based only on convictions, while ours are based on reports of crimes, such that the reported statistics in Britain are less than the actual crime rate. Adjusted for population the violent crime rate in England is four times higher than here.

        6. avatar DaveL says:

          Bear in mind that the UK’s homicide rate was even lower than it is today back before 1920, when more restrictive handgun laws started to be passed. What was it around 1920 that prompted stricter gun control? It clearly wasn’t street crime. You don’t suppose it had anything to do with a little thing called the Irish War of Independence? And to a lesser extent the influx of aristocratic refugees from the Bolshevik Revolution? It’s the same story as always: gun control is about stamping down revolution, not public safety. The right to bear arms, not the right to vote, is the true acid test on whether the ruling class really believes legitimate power derives from the consent of the governed. The British don’t, and I don’t suppose they ever did.

    3. avatar Cliff H says:

      The_Resistence, really? How will you resist, pee yourself or vomit while you’re running away?

      “It’s easier to run, survive or fight back against a nut-bar wielding with a knife, baseball, 2×4, length of chain, a section of pipe or a pair of scissors than a nut-bar with a gun.” Unless of course you also have a gun and know how and when to use it.

      I do seem to recall that in that disarmed paradise of France on Bastille Day running was not all that effective.

      Running from a moving car in this incident was not entirely effective.

      Not too long ago in Las Vegas, on the Strip, running from an insane woman intent on ramming the crowd with her car was not effective. (Not a terrorist act, but the weapon was the same.)

      A quick search of YouTube will find many videos of persons attempting to use their vehicles as weapons who were shot dead by police or bystanders with firearms.

      Your assertions have no merit. Nor should your belief that running is a better solution be forced on those who disagree and wish a better means to protect themselves and their loved ones.

      1. The I guess people like you and this website are going to ignore incidents like this then?

        https://www.yahoo.com/news/vegas-strip-shooting-slideshow-wp-220637819.html

        1. avatar TStew says:

          Ignore? No. Ignore when used as a reason to disarm when there’s a bunch of lunatic leftists who want ultimate control over our thoughts and lives, and seem to be willing to label me as a NAZI to justify my future murder? Yes.

        2. avatar Huntmaster says:

          Troll

        3. avatar DrewR says:

          And I guess you are going to ignore stories like these:

          https://foac-pac.org/Defense-Stories

    4. avatar Pwrserge says:

      Only oppressive to commies like you and only for the 10 seconds between getting out of the helicopter and hitting the ground.

      Nobody cares about your opinion. The only thing you’re accomplishing is showing that the racist left still supports Jim Crow laws.

    5. avatar Ivan Chestnovonich says:

      You people?

      Let me consult the Lexicanum Progressivarius aaaaaaaaaannnnd…..

      You have committed 23 microaggressions and show racist tendencies.

      Please report to your local Social Justice Warrior guild hall to check your privilege.

      1. avatar bobo says:

        lol –made my day with that!

    6. avatar Dan in CO says:

      You certainly aren’t able to put up any resistance without firearms, are you?

      On a separate note, your straw man is full of straw.

    7. avatar bobo says:

      ohhh no the resident nutter is back

      and let the fun watching the troll try to ‘shake’ the bridge began!

    8. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

      It’s funny you use the word “contain” here. I had occasion this week to visit the website of the University of Birmingham and a professor there had posted a quote in the aftermath of the recent Parliament attack. His assessment, similar to that of the Muslim Mayor of London, is that curtailment or terrorism is too ambitious and that the best they can strive for is mere containment.

      The problem, aside from the general ineffectiveness of containment as such, is that it has a nasty, pathetic habit of transforming into appeasement and slow motion surrender. From there, it just accelerates into full on defeat.

      I wouldn’t ever want to live in an apologist, defeatist society hell bent on bending over backwards to make nice with murderers, whether they’re terrorists or common criminals; but that’s just me.

    9. avatar Hannibal says:

      There are plenty of other ‘less oppressive’ countries with all the gun control in the world you can live in. Hey, were you one of those special snowflakes that said you’d move to Canada if Trump was elected? Say hi to miley for me.

      Or if you’re gonna retake the US calling yourself “The_Resistance” (lol) maybe do something other than trolling on the internet. Come at us.

      Of course, since we- gun owners- are armed and make up the majority of both the military and police, you’ll probably just stay in your mommy’s basement and pretend like you’re doing something useful with your life. Oh well. At least, thanks to the internet, you’re not killing trees as you piss in the wind.

    10. avatar surlycmd says:

      A choice between life as a subject of the realm or as a Citizen of the Republic is an easy one. I choose the Republic!

    11. avatar tdiinva (now in wisconsin) says:

      Look, we all know why “the Resistance ” is opposed to armed citizens. It prevent you guys from engaging in your Brownshirt tactics that we seen “the Resistance ” employ since Trump was elected.

    12. avatar Serpent Vision says:

      “It stop a maniac from obtain illegal weapon . . . ”

      Truly? Because the knife in the photos sure looks a lot larger than the 3-inch limit imposed by the law.

      https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives

      1. avatar Button Gwinnet says:

        Ye, but did he have a “good reason” to carry it, as determined on a case-by-case basis by the Crown?

    13. avatar Sheepdog6 says:

      “You people”?

      You talk like a fascist.

      Wear your brown shirt with pride. It will just make it easier for us to find you.

    14. avatar Roymond says:

      No, Resist, an armed society is one where:

      +a conservation worker repairing environmentally-damaging shortcuts doesn’t get beat up or killed by angry people who like shortcuts and dont give a shit about the environment

      +a group of kids camping in the woods doesn’t get molested by a pervert creeping in from another campsite

      +a girl coming home from work late at night doesn’t get raped

      See, those are real events that actually happened — or, rather, DIDN’T happen — because someone present was armed.

      By opposing an armed society, then, you are saying that you would prefer that that conservation worker had been maimed or killed, the kids had been molested, and the girl been raped.

  4. avatar 10x25mm says:

    You have to wonder whether this was some kind of retaliation for the killing of a driver who inadvertently hit a child Friday:

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/03/25/ohio-police-driver-shot-killed-after-hitting-boy-4.html?ref=yfp

    The incidents were closely juxtaposed and the area is infested with gangs.

  5. avatar TStew says:

    I’ll take gang violence for $200, Alex…

    1. avatar Ollie says:

      Take the Bonus Question too.
      What was the most common statement made by folks at the scene to police ?
      Answer: Dinsee Nuttin.

      1. avatar Ralph says:

        Is Dinsee Nuttin related to Dindu Nuffin?

        1. avatar Bob Jones says:

          Dey cussins

      2. avatar Hannibal says:

        There’s an even better reply (though not as common).

        “Yeah, I saw it all an I know who done it. I ain’t saying ****. F*** 12, go find another ***** snitch.”

  6. avatar michael says:

    I live in cincinnati. Not related. The poor guy in his car was n wrong place, wrong time. Club shooting is a thug club. Shooting arent unique there. Third shooting in less than a year.

    1. avatar MikeJH121 says:

      Live in Cincinnati. Just drove by that place 2 times Thursday. It was Micheal G’s a seafood place famous for celebs pics on wall. But after years of redoing after being flooded bu the river they moved. Became a gay night club called Adonis. Something else that never panned out. Just recently became Cameos. It is a mostly black club in a non-mostly black hood. Surrounded by auto yards and Harbors, and boat dealers. They allow 18’s on friday nights they do free admission until Midnight. The fight started earlier in the day. It is not a bad part of town except when that club is open. Kinda the only night life there.

      Was closed for a while. But since it has been Cameos they have had a few instances. They should be shut down. But no real neighborhood there so no real complaints.Thugs and gang banger wannabes gotta do what they do.

      Nice and quiet when it was a gay club. But the gay community don’t do east-end. So it didn’t last long.

  7. avatar Ed says:

    I have $100 that says the shooters were blacks. If chicago has taught us anything it’s that by and large the chil’in of the ghetto are not brought up with any semblance of responsibility, never mind the kind yout need to own a firearm.

    1. avatar anonymoose says:

      As long as it was some kind of gang-related thing we don’t have to worry about gun control proposals in Ohio. No one anywhere wants to confront the gang problem.

      1. avatar DrewR says:

        Gangs for sure. I don’t know about Ohio, but it is important to remember that there a Hispanic gangs, Asian gangs and White gangs as well, because it is a socioeconomic problem, not a race one. The reason most inner city families are black is due to the racist policies of the Johnson administration and the lefts continued assertion that any policies that might break up the status quo are inherently racist.

        1. avatar TStew says:

          True. True and stated in a far more constructive manner than Ed and Ollie.

        2. avatar Ed says:

          I worked at a inner-city nightclub for 5 years and was shot at 7 times, all by young black men. Johnson has nothing to do with it, generations have passed. It’s no one’s fault but their own, exactly like all the hee-haw rednecks in Florida that act like good ol’ boys…can’t spell their own last name but can tell you three different ways to cook meth. They are ignorant because they choose to be. If your don’t like the plain truth, that sucks for you Tstew.

        3. avatar TStew says:

          Ed, nothing in your comment would be disagreed with here except the tone. That and the notion that LBJ’s Great Society has nothing to do with the problems we now have in inner cities.

    2. avatar DrewR says:

      Seriously, you totally contradict yourself. You explicitly point out that generations of people recreate the actions of their forebears, but state that there is no connection to previous events?

      In your area it is a black gang problem, obviously, but in another area it is a Hispanic gang problem, and in another it is a Black night club bouncer who has been shot at seven times by young Asian men, or a white bouncer shot at by young white men.

      There is ZERO evidence ever recorded that paints one ethnicity as being more disposed to violence than any other, there is a tremendous amount of evidence that poor people of all races are more disposed to violence.

      The Johnson administration set up the subsidized housing in order for the Democrat party to, his words, “keep all the ni**ers.”

      I do not deny that personal accountability would solve the problem, but it is wholly irrational to expect the children of gangbangers to learn personal accountability from parents who have none. Just saying it’s a matter of race give the progressives a free pass on their incredibly successful social engineering. Not only is keeping inner city people on food stamps designed to keep them voting democrat, it is also designed to cause gang violence that they can use to undermine gun rights. If you can’t understand that, that sucks not just for you, but for everyone in this country.

      By the way, every black person I have ever met has been extremely nice, and no less educated or responsible than anyone else. You know what that means? Not a damn thing because anecdotal “evidence” isn’t worth shit.

      1. avatar TStew says:

        ^-this.

      2. avatar Stoney Man says:

        You might want to watch this:

        https://youtu.be/t1mgrTGeDPM

        1. avatar DrewR says:

          This is also an argument from authority fallacy, as a quick Google search shows that his theories have been widely discredited by the scientific community, he was caught using improper methodology on multiple occasions, and that nearly all of his academic supporters belong to his same organization.

          Bearing all that in mind, let’s pretend that his positions are accurate. Even if all this is true, can you deny that public stances on racial issues plays directly into the hands of antigun elitists? Can you honestly say that this kind of talk is in any way favorable to gun rights in America?

          Personally, I am still not convinced that you are not an antigun troll, here to promote the message that gun owners are a bunch of racist white guys. I could certainly be wrong about that. If you actually are progun, and are capable of rational thought, then you have to admit that this kind of argument plays directly into antigun hands. In short, if you are a troll, go die. If you actually believe in gun rights, you are hurting the cause.

        2. avatar Stoney Man says:

          The “scientific” community has a very well established position of being biased against anything that does not fit the leftist/globalist agenda. Actual science, and observable reality says that man made global warming does not exist, yet there are millions of people, and fake scientists who feel that it is real.

          But hey, just because the facts don’t line up with your feelings amd someone has an outlook that you don’t agree with, feel free to wish people dead and call them names.

          Congratulations on achieving Social Justice Warrior rank 2.

      3. avatar Ed says:

        Where did I say ANYTHING about anyone’s forebears first off? Second, even mighty Abe Lincoln himself wanted to ship all the slaves home after he freed them, not because of some darwin like theory, but because by and large, a majority of them just could not be taught to behave. And I’m not talking go pick my cotton behave, but just acting like human beings. So, how’s that for some forebearer talk? A true confederate loyalist would think just a little of the hee-haw rednecks as well….just to even it out there.

        1. avatar DrewR says:

          “If chicago has taught us anything it’s that by and large the chil’in of the ghetto are not brought up with any semblance of responsibility, ”

          This isn’t talking about parents?

          “act like good ol’ boys…”

          This isn’t a reference to role models?

          “A true confederate loyalist would think just a little of the hee-haw rednecks as well….just to even it out there.”

          I am not a “confederate loyalist,” if that was what you were implying, and I referenced the Hee-haw boys as being part of the same type of social engineering. Apparently not directly enough. Let me put it as plainly as possible: income level is a better indicator of criminality than race, religion, or geographic distribution.

          The Lincoln thing is an argument from authority fallacy, i.e. influential person said X, so X must be true. This is no different than the antis saying something like “Obama says AR 15s are evil killing machines, so it has to be true.”

        2. avatar Ed says:

          Act like good ol boys is a reference to role models??? How do you come up with that? That’s like me saying you act like an asshole and you telling me to stop talking about your mom. You really are a moron. Also, my point with the Lincoln thing that you obviously missed was that even among the pro abolishment leadership they felt that, for the most part the blacks insisted on acting like animals and not much has changed apparently. Think I’m wrong, just look at the numbers. Even if you added together all the white on white and white on black violent crime for a year it wouldn’t total what the amount of black on black violent crime would be. FACTS SUCK huh?

        3. avatar DrewR says:

          Ed, first off, calm down, it is a discussion on the internet, you don’t need to take it so personally.

          Secondly, if the “Good Ol’ Boys” in Florida are anything like the “Good Ol’ Boys” in Montana, then you can bet your ass they do that intentionally, because they look up to their fathers and uncles who are Hillbillys. You and I may see that term as a pejorative, but they use it as a badge of honor. Again, maybe the Floridians you are referencing are different, I was going from the examples I have seen.

          Third, if I am a moron, you are a doody-head. isn’t name calling fun and productive?

          Fourth, I understood exactly the point you were trying to make with the Lincoln comment, and it is still an argument from authority fallacy. What any given individual believes is irrelevant if it is not supported by objective evidence. Your statement as worded each time strongly implied that because these people believed it it must be true, which, again, is not necessarily the case.

          Fifth, again, you are oversimplifying the numbers. This is the same thing the Antis do when the say that states with looser gun laws have higher per capita shootings than states with stricter ones. On paper this is technically correct, but completely falls apart when you realize that states with loose gun laws tend to have far less people; so, for instance if one person gets shot in MT that’s a shooting rate of 1 per 1,000,000, but it would take 34 people getting shot in California to make the same rate. How that relates to your numbers is that the poverty rate for blacks is 24.1% and the poverty rates for whites is 9%, figures which more or less mirror the violent crime rates and support the economic factor theory.

          Sixth, in non gang related violent crimes like Rape and Sexual assault the perpetrator is about twice as likely to be white. 57% White, 27% black the remaining 16% either unknown or of another race.

          Seventh, his isn’t the first time in history we have had a gang problem in this country, from the late 1700s through the late 1800s New York in particular was plagued with gang crime, and the newspapers and many of the citizenry of the time depicted these people as animalistic barbarians. Who were these people, whose genes were supposedly predisposed to violence and mayhem? The Irish. So if it wasn’t genetic predisposition, perhaps it was, you guessed it, socioeconomic circumstances. As an aside, the rule of the Irish gangs was ended by the, both white, Jewish and Italian gangs.

          Eighth, I am going to post something I normally wouldn’t, which is a quote from Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not a good primary source, but each of the numbers in the following passage corresponds to a bibliographic entry with link to the original article.

          From the entry Race and Crime in the United States:

          While there is a correlation between blacks and Hispanics and crime, the data imply a much stronger tie between poverty and crime than crime and any racial group, when gender is taken into consideration.[60] The direct correlation between crime and class, when factoring for race alone, is relatively weak. When gender, and familial history are factored, class correlates more strongly with crime than race or ethnicity.[61][62] Studies indicate that areas with low socioeconomic status may have the greatest correlation of crime with young and adult males, regardless of racial composition, though its effect on females is negligible.[61][62] A 1996 study looking at data from Columbus, Ohio found that differences in disadvantage in city neighborhoods explained the vast majority of the difference in crime rates between blacks and whites,[63] and a 2003 study looking at violent offending among juveniles reached similar conclusions.[64]

          Finally, I would like to reiterate that nothing I have said has been intended as a personal attack, and should not be construed as such. I would like to end with the same point I made to Stoney Man in this same post, which is that, even if everything you said was correct, do you not see that espousing racist viewpoints on a gun forum is inherently harmful to the cause of gun rights? That the only thing that actually accomplishes is to bolster the belief of the anti gun crowd that we are just a bunch of racist white guys? Do you not understand that this is ammo they use to sway gun ignorant voters into voting our rights away? Surely you can understand that. The whole reason I actually bother to engage in conversations like this is to eliminate one of the antis most effective weapons. Your personal beliefs have no bearing on me whatsoever, but please just understand that the assertions you have been making here do absolutely nothing but hurt the cause of gun rights activists.

          Anyway, feel free to call me more names if you like, but try not to get yourself too strung out.

      4. avatar Button Gwinnet says:

        “There is ZERO evidence ever recorded that paints one ethnicity as being more disposed to violence than any other,…”

        Actually, FBI Table 43 has some solid statistics showing correlation between race and crime. I do not believe that the amount of melanin in the dermal tissue causes violence. However, there must be some reason.

        1. avatar Ed says:

          I was done arguing with this dope when he started quoting Wikipedia. I don’t think the melatonin levels are the problem either…must be something in the kool-aid.

  8. avatar Stoney Man says:

    Queue Elvis Presley “In the Ghetto”

  9. avatar ANONNYMOUS says:

    This Ohio club shooting is not rocket science; nor is the security they have in place. Ohio is kind-of, gun friendly. As to/for how the firearms entered the Cincinnati, Ohio Cameo night-club, there is always a way to circumvent any security; it does not matter who or what entity provides the security services. Most security in these type venues focus or concentrate on the public at large –entering through the main public entrance–. These caliber of night-clubs (most) will not, or cannot, afford the same weapons filtering experienced at our U.S.A. airports, Federal and court buildings; even the latter is subject to circumvention (employee’s).

    With regard to filtering firearms before entering such an establishment as the –Cincinnati, Ohio Cameo night-club–, such security should not be limited ‘only’ to the entering patrons; EVERY PERSON and package delivered to that venue needs to be filtered for firearms, or, if the firearm filtering mentioned above is not agreeable, should the law allow –let legal carry continue its course throughout the venue with trained security (before person/package) enters, verifying a weapons-free package delivery and/or credentials for both drinking age and legal possession of firearms while within the venue.

    This will not stop a bum-rush of one or more determined criminal minded or ill-behaved person; but in my experience; it is a darn good start. The owners and security would have to actually –do it– post implementation. Performing security in the same spot all the time is boring, people repeatedly become complacent and just down-right lazy. That and the existing employee’s are how security is circumvented allowing the firearms in to places which firearms are prohibited.

    If the venue were under my auspices (an English noun), I would allow all legal firearms carry providing the person in possession of said firearm also possesses picture-identification issued by an active Federal or State agency in these United States, verifying age as it relates to drinking, legal possession and carry of firearms; before entering the venue.

    Please excuse any and all misspellings and incorrect grammar. Your thoughts, rants, thrown tomatoes and rotten eggs are welcome.

  10. avatar strych9 says:

    I thought Ohio changed the law like seven years ago to allow bar carry provided that the carrier isn’t drinking?

    I carry when I shoot pool or when, like last night, my wife wants to have a drink to celebrate something. The only people who know about it are my wife and the owner of the joint, who by the by, often asks me to stay during closing because of the uptick in meth related armed robbery we’ve been seeing of late.

    I see no problem with it as most CCW permit holders are responsible, often cited as being a more law abiding group than cops, people and therefore generally aren’t going to get drunk while carrying and start wildly shooting if something happens while they’re present.

    1. avatar ANONNYMOUS says:

      To keep this reply brief:
      ORC: 2923.121 Possession of firearm in beer liquor permit premises – prohibition, exceptions.

      There are exceptions. Please read the ORC cited above for details and any amendments listed at the bottom of the above ORC.

      1. avatar strych9 says:

        I don’t live in Ohio any more and haven’t set foot in the state in nearly eight years. I really don’t care what the ORC says or doesn’t say because it doesn’t affect me.

        A simple “Yes” or “No” would have sufficed and, since you’re so concerned with brevity, shortened your reply immensely.

    2. avatar Button Gwinnet says:

      If I owned a neighborhood joint, I’d allow firearms. If I owned a “club,” I wouldn’t. Different demographics.

  11. avatar rt66paul says:

    I wish to thank the CCW holders here, especially those that carry every day. I can not have a CCW here in Ca, I do not know if I would want the responsability. Thank you for your service.

    1. avatar ANONNYMOUS says:

      Perhaps move to a neighboring State close to your employer; acquiring an out-of-State ccw/chl before hand. If an entire family is involved, get an out-of-state ccw/chl in the state of your choice, uproot the entire family, and move as-soon-as you can secure employment and schooling for your young ones.

      Seriously!

      No one/entity is responsible for you and/or your familys’ life except you and our other half. Or you can wait for a LEO who is possibly stuck in traffic. Look at/check your local LEO’s response time.

  12. avatar tmm says:

    Bill the Cat for a profile pic?

    Ack!

  13. avatar rt66paul says:

    Gangs have not changed. Thier access to modern weapons has. We can not take that access away unless we go back in time a kill every firearms inventor and explosive inventer in the world. We would have to do this over and over, because a technology marches on, inventors find the same things.

    It is impossable. Gangs are racist, mostly from neighborhoods of like minded kids, who don’t have positive influences at home. This is gang or tribal behaviour, they have realized that they have strength together. When they look around and see that they will have nothing, like the others living there, they go after the money when young. It helps them for a while, until they start using thier own product or fight other gangs to keep thier turf.

    Until these kids can realize they are Americans and reach for the ring, they are doomed to repeat thier parents mistakes. There is a lot of wasted talent, but there is only so many good jobs out there and the people on top want them for their children.

    As a country, we need to build from within, stop supporting the world and make sure of the better jobs for Americans. Buy American, ship American. We were on top, we gave it away. We deal with Communist countries that have no real market or price on the materials. The people in power place a price on these materials and put others in power in place to be the owner of the factory. They set prices on labor and make a huge profit – this is not capitalism. It hurts Americans and gives cash to Communist countries(that are not really Communist, they are Totalitarians). Our government is wron to allow unrestricted trade with these countries.

    Certain people in power(Nixon acted as their agent) have sold out the US by trading with them and allow them to buy land here and soon will develop the land for more resources. We need to take back our country and stop the import of good causing the trade imbalance.

    It is not just Republicans marching to the beat of these certain people’s drums, Obama bailed out GM, which gave them money to build a Buick plant in China. If we must trade with them, we should trade US made goods(Buicks) and machinery. We should not give them the keys to the kingdom or your kids will be speaking Mandarian and bowing to their leaders.

  14. avatar Chip in Florida says:

    I find the MDA pull from Ed very scary. He is on about how much worse it could have been because no one could have known who the original perp was and people would therefore would just be shooting the people trying to stop the original shooter…. He makes it sound like all of the other armed citizens just suddenly appeared with no idea from who or where the original shots rang out.

    Dance, dance, dance, BANG! BANG! and then suddenly *poof* all these armed and untrained civilians appear and start shooting, the first one at the original shooter, the third person shooting the second person shooting, the fourth shooting the third, and so on and so forth…..

    That is grade A seriously f*%$ed up projection on the gun controllers part imagining all those people shooting each other in some sort of psycho-daisy-chain kind of wtf.

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