Safety Beats Safeties Every Time – Content Contest

(This post is an entry in our spring content contest. If you’d like a chance to win a Beretta APX pistol, click here for details.) 

By Mark S.

Well maybe that hole was already in the wall and I just never noticed. Then reality sunk in and my stomach slowly slid into my throat.

I have always been interested in firearms from a young age. My father, lamentably, stopped hunting and sold his guns before I was born. Hearing about his old Ithaca shotguns and .300 Weatherby Mark V still makes me cringe at the thought of him getting rid of them.

However, he still fostered my interest and purchased a classic Red Ryder BB gun for me for my tenth birthday. I loved that gun and still do. He taught me how to shoot and ingrained proper gun handling and safety. I shot as often as I could afford the time and looked forward to evolving my firearm ownership as I grew.

While my interest in firearms maintained and my support of the Second Amendment strengthened, I wasn’t a gun owner until about five years ago. I shot a lot thanks to gun-owning friends and as such I was able to try out a wide variety of pistols prior to purchasing.

I settled on a full-size Beretta PX4 Storm chambered in .40 S&W as my first firearm. I liked the gun and how it felt, but I also liked the idea of the manual safety and decocker so I could get more and more comfortable with my own firearms. After about a year and many, many rounds down range, I stumbled into my second gun.

One day at a local gun store, I happened upon a Beretta Stampede. It had beautiful walnut grips and a 4.75” barrel chambered in the smooth-shooting .45 Colt. I fell in love with it immediately and didn’t hesitate to throw some cash on the counter. I went home with some snap caps and studied my new addition.

I listened to the wonderfully timed action, rotated the smooth cycling cylinder, and pulled the zero-creep, zero-overtravel, crisp three pound trigger. I was in love with it and the caliber. The only safety on this gun was a simple transfer bar. I knew to be careful when setting down the hammer on a live round and always took time doing so safely. I got pretty good with the Stampede and very comfortable with its action, so I began to keep it bedside loaded with 185 grain Critical Defense rounds.

One night after a day of shooting, I was in the living room cleaning my guns. As I finished with the Stampede, I prepared it for night duty and loaded it up. I placed the final round in the cylinder, closed the gate, and then…BOOM!

I froze. Smoked wafted through the room and there was silence. And ringing. My dog looked at me and barked as if to say, “What the hell did you do?!” I looked at him and thought “What the hell did I do?!”

Shaking a bit, I placed the gun on the table and sat in disbelief. I had just experienced a negligent discharge. Yes, it was accidental and yes it was unintentional, but above all it was pure, unadulterated negligence.

My oily thumb slipped off the hammer when lowering it. It was 100% preventable. After all the times I performed that same action, I never once had an issue or even came close. This time, I allowed a single moment of complacency to enter my routine, which could have resulted in disaster.

This time however, it resulted in a hole in the wall and a shattered ego. After finding the bullet in the wall and verifying everything around me was safe, I sat down and soaked up the rude awakening of how quickly an ordinary action can have an extraordinary consequence. Lesson learned.

Life goes on, kids arrive, and extra money was necessary, so I unfortunately no longer own either of those guns, but I learned from that experience in a way I will never forget. It did not scare me away from guns or deter me from buying guns without safeties. I am not defined as a gun owner by what happened, but enlightened and renewed with the reality of what can happen.

I’m still a gun owner and always will be, especially now that I have children to watch out for and protect. Every time I shoot, or handle firearms, I still think about that evening and what could have happened.

That experience guides my attention with firearms to never become complacent with my actions. There are many axioms about gun safety that we’ve all probably heard and it all boils down to how you handle yourself and your firearm.

Could a manual safety have prevented it? Maybe, but that’s not the point. A negligent discharge can result in a catastrophe in the blink of an eye, even if you think you’re too skilled are overly trained. While I was fortunate, all it takes is one time for your life or someone else’s to be destroyed due to one stupid moment in time.

As People of the Gun, it’s our responsibility to promote the safe use of firearms. Guns are fun, guns are tools, and guns are protection.

As ambassadors to the hoplophobic masses attempting to restrict our access to our sports of choice and means of defense, we need to pay attention to what we’re doing and show them what responsible gun ownership is about. No matter what they think in Washington and in countries worldwide, safety cannot be built into a gun nor can it be legislated. It only lies within the user. Pay attention, keep training, and keep fighting the good fight.

comments

  1. avatar BLoving says:

    Not gonna bust your chops on this – could, and has – happened to most of us at least once.
    All anyone can do is hope we live to learn from our mistakes. The real fool is the one who never learns.

    1. avatar BLoving says:

      Okay. Confessional time. (deep breath) I shot the planet. Yup. I messed with a stuck trigger on a sporterized ’03 Springfield and put a .30-06 round into the dirt and earned a bunch of baleful glares from my brothers and exactly zero deer seen that morning.
      Much older and wiser today, I was the bonehead that cold morning.

  2. avatar anonymoose says:

    Never load the cylinder to full capacity on an old-style single-action. You must always lower the hammer onto an empty chamber to be safe. Modern Rugers with the transfer bar can hold 6 rounds at a time because opening the loading gate allows the cylinder to spin, whereas Colts and clones of Colts have to be in half-cock to spin.

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      This was an “old style” single action? I didn’t even know Beretta was in the SAA business! And the narrative has nothing to do with transfer bars and everything to do with negligent discharge, which I think the author made admirably clear. That picture has 2 guns, one way purtier than the other. I think I want one, and this rendition does not dissuade me at all.

  3. avatar MM says:

    “The loudest sound in the world is when you expect to hear ‘click’ and you hear BANG! The second loudest – when you want to hear BANG and all you get is ‘click’.”
    Thanks for sharing your story. Been there, done that – fortunately, same no-pain, no-damage result. Dare i say if everyone could have that one, inconsequential, negligent discharge, it’s almost worth very bit of preventive instruction. Almost…

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      “The loudest sound in the world is when you expect to hear ‘click’ and you hear BANG! The second loudest – when you want to hear BANG and all you get is ‘click’.”

      I think those are reversed.

  4. avatar AR says:

    “….Greasy fingers smearing shiny Colt’s; Oh Aqualung….”

  5. avatar No one of consequence says:

    Glad nothing was hurt but your ego and wall.

    A modified set of the four rules apply when loading. In particular, “keep it pointed in a safe direction” is key.

  6. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

    You should be able to block the ham mer with your other thumb until you can release the trig ger and still drop it the rest of the way. If I recall correctly the traditional SAAs require you to pull the ham mer back to half cock to open the loading ga te. This isn’t required on my Ru ger Bla ckhawk, so blocking it with your thumb might not be as easy. But if I let a newbie shoot it (it is .44 magnum) I usually show them how to do that if they decide not to fire after cocking it.

    1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      Governor,

      Is the author claiming that he had the hammer in half-cock position … and that the hammer slipped away from his oily thumb and detonated the cartridge under it from half-cock? Is that even possible for the hammer to achieve enough velocity/force to detonate primers from half-cock? I find that really hard to believe. Otherwise, why require the hammer to pull so far back?

      1. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

        Well to get the ham mer off half-cock you have to pull it back, pull the trig ger and let it down. Perhaps he was a little hamfisted when he did it? Either way I wouldn’t trust it to not fire any past half-cock.

      2. avatar cico ked says:

        Yes this can happen as primers vary tremendously in their sensitivity and not just from brand to brand but primer to primer. There have been reported instances of primes exploding just by bumping them or jiggling them when they were spilled on a reloading bench. There are multitudes of instances were rifles and pistols blew sky high from slam fires even when using firearm’s that had the firing pins locked as pivoted out of the way of the primer such as the P38 pistol or locked as such in the M1 Garand .

        Even static electricity can set a primer off as primer dust is extremely explosive. Putting primers in a jar out of their protective shipping carton and shaking the jar is a good way to commit suicide.

  7. avatar strych9 says:

    Good write up on an embarrassing but teachable moment.

    Well done.

  8. avatar YAR0892 says:

    Like the man above said, it’s happened to us all. I’m glad things were as good as they were for you. Good to know I’m not alone too.

    1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      It has not happened to me. Frankly, I am quite disturbed how many people think a negligent discharge is inevitable for everyone.

      I can see where a malfunction that causes a truly unexpected discharge could happen relatively often, such as a bolt/sear/trigger (or even firing pin) failure, a cook-off (a few seconds after pulling the trigger), or something (other than the operator’s finger) getting into the trigger guard. Technically, I do not consider those events to be negligent discharges. They truly are accidental discharges.

      What I am having a really hard time accepting is that many/most firearm owners negligently squeeze the trigger with their finger. I have never heard of that before.

      1. avatar strych9 says:

        It does happen. Even the guys over at BB&C talk about it.

        Even very well trained people make mistakes, especially when tired and hungry.

      2. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

        Certainly not inevitable, but it could happen to anyone. Anyone who scoffs at the idea that it could ever happen to them because they know how to handle fi rearms safely is tempting karma to teach them a lesson.

        1. avatar Matt says:

          You’ve obviously fundamentally misunderstood me. Maybe I’ve done the same to you. Be it my fault or yours, I won’t debate that point.

          “You just switched the argument again. Of course the possibility exists. Your argument was that the inevitability exists.”

          At no point do I say it is inevitable. I’m not even sure how you can construe that from what I wrote.

          “But the car analogy was strictly about factors within your control. If I am hit by a stray bullet from the guy in the shooting lane next to me, how is that an ND chargeable to me?”

          It is not and I believe that my purpose for the car analogy is explained adequately at this point.

          “The topic, which you keep straying from, is you believe that if you handle firearms long enough, you will have an ND.”

          I do not believe this and again have no idea how you came to this conclusion.

          “Then just handle it today. Right now. This minute. You can’t guarantee safety forever? Can you guarantee safety right now? This time? If you can’t, dude, I don’t want to be around you.”

          We can at least agree on this point.

          The entire purpose to my original comment was don’t think it can’t happen to you because it might and take that as good advice from yet another guy that thought it wouldn’t happen to him and it.

      3. avatar Matt says:

        It’s the same thing as a car accident, most are not accidental in the sense that mechanical failure is the sole cause, a human to screws something up most of the time. You can’t ride around all day saying I’ll never have a car accident, because it’s not possible to predict. ND/AD is the same, you have significantly more control over the situation than being the victim of a car accident, but there are still too many factors to say it’ll never happen.

        We all fall into doing things in a pattern and all it takes is a disruption of that pattern for programming to take over and cause an accident. Or we all suffer from a brain fart where the mind and body are doing things independently for a few seconds. Or we just plain make a mistakes.

        I used to be the it’ll never happen to me guy. Then I capped my blender. Whoops. No one got hurt and I learned I’m a dumb ass who made a dumb ass mistake, and that arrogance I had maybe played a factor. You can say it’ll probably never happen to me, but you can’t say never IMO.

        1. Bad analogy. You said “victim of a car accident”. That means you were not the one being negligent.
          I know several people who have never caused an accident.
          Also, most auto accidents / negligence are caused by distractions or lack of awareness including falling asleep while driving. There are so many more factors contributing to the rate of auto accidents besides repetitions that just do not come into play regarding firearms.
          You can control your firearms to the point that you can eliminate any chance of an ND.
          Now do it.

        2. avatar Matt says:

          I believe I covered every point you posted… but I suppose I could have said being the victim or cause of a car accident.

          I also would not say you cannot eliminate the chance. I’d say virtually eliminate sure. After all, we have just agreed that human factors are what causes accidents. It is therefore not possible for you to eliminate human factors without removing them. If you are involved, the possibility exists regardless of how remote simply because YOU, the human, are involved in the process.

        3. I didn’t say you could eliminate human factors. Don’t switch the argument. I said a human can have a perfect safety record with a firearm. I said the car accident analogy was not good because there are to many other variables in operating a vehicle.

          If you want to stand by the car analogy, I would say driving in Atlanta is more like a firefight in a war. You are more likely to shoot the wrong person or have a negligent discharge in a war and that translates more accurately to what happens with a car in a rush hour commute.
          Just everyday carry and cleaning and range time doesn’t add any danger to handling a firearm if you keep good habits.

        4. avatar Matt says:

          I’m not switching the argument at all. “You can control your firearms to the point that you can eliminate any chance of an ND” sounded a lot like you being a dumb ass doesn’t matter if proper procedure is followed, a point I disagree with and explained why. I certainly did not get “a human can have a perfect safety record with a firearm” from that, and even if I did, it would be moot. The possibility of a ND still exists because you are interacting with the firearm and you need to be accepting of that; regardless of how real or remote that possibility is in actuality or your perception.

          That was the point of the car analogy. We all accept, or should be accepting, some level of risk that we may cause or be the victim of an accident every time we get in a car and thus should be extremely vigilant, but we fall into the same patterns and habits and do things like drive while sleepy, drive in bad conditions, make bad decisions while driving, get used to patterns/roads/etc and expect certain things to happen while driving, all of which can cause accidents but aren’t guaranteed to. That is all very similar to why we need to be extremely vigilant when handling a firearm because we are susceptible to all the same sorts of things, falling into patterns, making bad decisions, etc. It has nothing to do with how many factors are directly under your control in either situation because even if all factors were 100% in your control you are still involved and thus the wild card is still present. If you want to say well, being in an accident and not causing it puts cars outside of guns because you weren’t in control of the situation. Well being part of a ND by being shot or having your property damaged by someone else who caused it links it right back to the car analogy. Both cases have factors 100% outside of your control.

        5. “The possibility of a ND still exists because you are interacting with the firearm”

          You just switched the argument again. Of course the possibility exists. Your argument was that the inevitability exists.
          I could possibly suck a dick. The inevitability is that ain’t gonna happen.

          “Well being part of a ND by being shot or having your property damaged by someone else who caused it links it right back to the car analogy. Both cases have factors 100% outside of your control.”

          But the car analogy was strictly about factors within your control. If I am hit by a stray bullet from the guy in the shooting lane next to me, how is that an ND chargeable to me? The topic, which you keep straying from, is you believe that if you handle firearms long enough, you will have an ND. I call out the flaw in the car analogy so you defend it by saying even being a victim of negligence counts. No. It doesn’t.

          Here’s the thing. This is how I treat gun safety. I hope everyone would. I don’t aspire to avoid negligence for the next 50 years. I aspire to prevent negligence just one time. This time. The next time doesn’t concern me until it becomes this time.
          You say handle firearms long enough and you will fuck up. Then just handle it today. Right now. This minute. You can’t guarantee safety forever? Can you guarantee safety right now? This time? If you can’t, dude, I don’t want to be around you.

        6. avatar Matt says:

          You’ve obviously fundamentally misunderstood me. Maybe I’ve done the same to you. Be it my fault or yours, I won’t debate that point.

          “You just switched the argument again. Of course the possibility exists. Your argument was that the inevitability exists.”

          At no point do I say it is inevitable. I’m not even sure how you can construe that from what I wrote.

          “But the car analogy was strictly about factors within your control. If I am hit by a stray bullet from the guy in the shooting lane next to me, how is that an ND chargeable to me?”

          It is not and I believe that my purpose for the car analogy is explained adequately at this point.

          “The topic, which you keep straying from, is you believe that if you handle firearms long enough, you will have an ND.”

          I do not believe this and again have no idea how you came to this conclusion.

          “Then just handle it today. Right now. This minute. You can’t guarantee safety forever? Can you guarantee safety right now? This time? If you can’t, dude, I don’t want to be around you.”

          We can at least agree on this point.

          The entire purpose to my original comment was don’t think it can’t happen to you because it might and take that as good advice from yet another guy that thought it wouldn’t happen to him and it.

  9. avatar Southern Cross says:

    There are two types of shooters. Those who’ve had a ND. And those who will have a ND.

    I had mine back when I was hunting with a friend which resulted in a .22 being fired into the air. After that we fully cleared to empty chamber and hammer or striker forward after any shooting. We still do this nearly 30 years later.

  10. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

    Mine was in the ceiling.

  11. avatar Specialist38 says:

    5 beans in the wheel for a single action with a loading notch in the hammer.

    Thankful it was just a discharge. Probably two discharges but one was from the guy.

  12. avatar Chazzer says:

    My indelible lesson was a full-house .357 JHP shot through 4 cedar closet walls ruining 6 of my wife’s brand new dresses–A very cheap lesson 30 years ago—never to be forgotten and/or repeated !!!! Chazzer

    1. avatar Zeke says:

      You shot up 6 of her brand new dresses, and it was still a “cheap lesson?” Your wife must be an amazingly forgiving woman! 🙂

  13. avatar jakeinal says:

    Mine went from my LCR into a wall and stayed there. I still have the brass, just as a reminder that it could have been much worse.

  14. avatar LarryinTX says:

    Closest I’ve gotten was with my brother and a 100-year-old .22 single shot, when we pulled the trigger it didn’t fire, we started dicking with it, 4 hands on it, and suddenly it “went off”. We were in the yard centered in a 75 acre homestead, bullet went in the dirt. We both completely froze, me with long experience with guns, him with nearly none, and looked at each other. Turned out, neither of us had a hand close to the trigger guard, the gun had likely gone off while we manipulated the obviously worn bolt. That was over 15 years ago, the rifle is still upstairs waiting for a gun buyback so that I can cheat some liberal fruitcakes, but will never be loaded again. It is hard, my stepdad put meat on his family’s table with that rifle when he was 13 (rabbits, squirrels, and rats), during the Depression, but it’s serviceable life has come to an end, other than defrauding gungrabbers.

    1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      Defrauding gun grabbers seems like an incredibly noble last act with that rifle. Something tells me that your step-dad would approve.

    2. avatar Joe in San Antonio says:

      Could you restore it? Just for the sentimental value it could be worth it. Otherwise why not make it into a mantle piece or lamp? I hate giving anything to gun buy backs except plumbing supplies and rubber bands

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        Replacing the bolt might work, but where do you rind a bolt for a 100-year-old rifle that probably cost less than $5, new. Buyback money is going to be spent to destroy guns, why not one which needs destroying, may save an AR!

    3. avatar cico ked says:

      Rather than have the firearm destroyed you might get as much money out of it by selling it to Numrich Arms for parts. I would remove the bad sear though before selling it too them. This way some one could restore a gun like yours to shooting condition. They may need the stock or screws or sights or other parts that are still good or usable. I hate to see the gun haters laugh and smile while they melt down firearms.

  15. Load one, skip one, load four. Pull to full cock, ease hammer down.

  16. avatar cisco kid says:

    Anyone can make a mistake and with firearms if you handle them for enough years a mistake is more and more likely to happen its the law of averages no matter how safe you are. That is why I have never carried a gun design I consider unsafe to begin with. In other words a gun that is far more likely to cause an accident than a model that was designed to be more safely handled.

    The Moron, the Arrogant Egomaniac, the ill trained, or the uniformed all eventually with have a serious accident especially with a gun that is basically more likely for an accidental discharge.

    I place the Glock and Glock copy cats at the top of the list. The accidental shootings and deaths would fill volumes as I have read about them in publications like the former Gun Week (now the Gun Mag) and even in some of the Gun Magazines. Once in awhile they actually do tell the truth about something.

    My own Glock has a Cominolli manual safety installed. It can be left in the “on” position when loading and unloading it as well as handling it or carrying it. I convinced several friends to have it installed when they initially did not want to spend a few pennies to do it so, so I then had them perform an experiment. I told them to carry the Glock in their pocket for a day (unloaded but cocked) and also to carry it in the waist band (again completely unloaded but cocked) and then at the end of the day check it to see if it let loose the striker which if loaded would have fired off the gun. Both friends reported to me quite honestly that the weapons went off and both got the manual safety installed. Seeing is believing and they had to see for themselves that yes it can happen to anyone.

    The Israelis carry their Browning High Powers with an empty chamber, not a bad idea for people also who own Glocks without the manual safety installed.

    Even holstering a Glock can set it off as some holsters will fold over the edge and catch on the trigger. Sometimes the gun will go off in the act of holstering it and sometimes it will not until your body twist as when sitting in a car and the folded over piece of the holster then presses down more and sets the Glock or Glock copy cat gun off.

    Of course the take down of the Glock is extremely dangerous as you must pull the trigger to get the slide off and all you have to do is just forget one time to unload the chamber and the Glock gives you no second chance as its going to go off. Glock should change the take down system of this gun to the more safe rotating lever with the slide locked back.

    Working on triggers at home can be extremely dangerous as well. Even if the gun never went off accidentally for you, if you sell it or even let someone else handle or borrow it and it goes off and its discovered you screwed around modifying the trigger or even put a drop in kit in the gun you are libel and there is no getting out of paying thousands in restitution to the victim. I have seen more than one military and commercial rifle go off accidentally after the owner screwed around trying to make the trigger lighter.

    Hand-loads are another danger as many people who hand load are incompetent or careless and I have seen guns owned by my acquaintances blow sky high from careless hand loading. Never load any ammo for a friend as you are libel if the gun blows up even if it may be his fault as well because then the blame game starts which could result in years and years of an expensive law suit dragging on. Never buy hand loads from anyone especially at gun shows. The price may be cheaper but how much is your life worth?

    Never experiment with hot loads either. Most hunting situations do not require hot loads and hot loads put a lot of wear and tear on the gun and almost always give way less accuracy and sometimes less reliability to boot so no matter how powerful they are if you miss what you are shooting at what was the point of using a hot load in the first place. Velocity is not everything but rather a good mild load with adequate penetration will kill anything on the planet. 2,300 fps is all that was used in Africa’s golden age and guns as small as the 6.5 mm killed every animal in Africa because of accurate shooting and adequate penetration to the vitals. Even the later made .458 Winchester often seldom exceeded 2,100 fps despite advertisement propaganda. Few people have the skill in a field situation to need a magnum or need pin point accuracy as seen in bench rest matches as big game is large enough and distances close enough that even the good old Winchester 30/30 was accurate enough to kill thousands of deer at reasonable ranges in line with the skill of the average hunter.

    Hot loads in semi-auto pistols are a real no, no as well as they not only make parts breakage and jams more likely but wear out things like recoil springs more quickly as well and when they wear out all kinds of strange things start making your pistol malfunction. Trust me I have been there and done that.

    I seldom hand a loaded gun to anyone that I do not know very well as I have seen people point loaded guns right at me that suddenly jammed up. I once had a Moron point a Luger Pistol right at my stomach when it jammed. As I looked down at the partially closed breach I could see the loaded round half way into the chamber and the Moron still had his finger on the trigger. I did a move sideways faster than a cat jumps off a hot time roof. I got the gun away from this idiot and felt like beating him over the head with it after I unloaded it. I probably should have so he would have never pulled a fool stunt like that again. Needless to say I never went within 100 miles of this jerk again.

    As you can see the gun knowledge and safety habits of many people is often slim to non existent and that is why when people who do not use and practice with guns everyday buy one for self defense they are way better off with a gun with a manual safety and a safe take down system. I might add some are so incompetent they would be better off just using a Wal-Mart claw hammer instead.

    1. avatar TommyJay says:

      Thank you for that. I’m in the process of replacing my Springfield XD with a CZ 75B.

      1. avatar tsbhoa.p.jr says:

        75b was my nd.
        i don’t like remembering the experience.
        my ear is ringing partially from it.
        i was new to da and it was half cocked.

        get that cz though. it is my favorite.it is a safe pistol.

        1. avatar tsbhoa.p.jr says:

          but not for the safe.

    2. avatar Joe in San Antonio says:

      I have been carrying for 9 years with glocks and glock clones. Bullet in the chamber, pocket carry, iwb and belt and I have never had one “go off”. I respect those who use guns with safeties but I can assure you the only way to make a glock that is functioning correctly is to pull the trigger.

      1. avatar cisco kid says:

        Sorry but I do not believe you. No one could carry a Glock in the pocket for 9 years without a holster that would cover the trigger without it going off much sooner than later. Any accidental snag of the trigger sets the gun off and the ridiculous trigger safety is 100 per cent useless. Put in plain English it does not work period. When you carry a Glock with the chamber loaded its like carrying a revolver with the hammer cocked back. Now tell me carrying a Smith “J” frame model 36 with the hammer cocked back in the pocket would not go off. There is no deference between doing that and carrying a Glock with a round in the chamber, none whatsoever.

        I can only possibly think of one other circumstance that would substantial your claim and that is you must carry a glock in the pocket very seldom because any amount of constant carry in the pocket without it being in a holster would indeed very quickly set the gun off.

        I have read of women putting the Glock or copy cat pistols in their purse without a holster and they go off.

        I have read about several people including a lady cop that put a Glock under their pillow and they went off.

        I have read numerous stories including one of the most well known about the famous Black Athlete sitting in a New York Restaurant with the Glock in his waist band without a hard shell holster and the gun went off and he shot himself.

        I have read In Gun Week of the Air Marshall that sat down in his seat on a Plane and the Glock went off.

        I have read In Gun Week where a well know Washington DC Street Criminal was walking down the street with a Glock stuffed in his waist band and the gun went off and he shot himself.

        I recently last summer read in one of the Gun Magazines about the Cop who stopped a car in a routine traffic stop. The Cop got out of his car and stumbled, his finger was off the trigger as he was trained to do but in the stumble the trigger snagged on something, the gun went off and he shot the passenger sitting in the car that he had stopped.

        I could write you a couple of pages about Glocks and copy cat Glocks going off accidentally with terrible consequences.

        1. Why would you assume he didn’t use a pocket holster?
          You went went on a ridiculous tirade based on something you imagine.

        2. avatar Joe in San Antonio says:

          I never carry any gun without a holster. I ensure you that I carry everyday with a glock that has a round in the chamber, the gun is either in a dedicated pocket with a holster or iwb with a holster, and rarely ankle carry

        3. avatar cisco kid says:

          Quote———————–I respect those who use guns with safeties but I can assure you the only way to make a glock that is functioning correctly is to pull the trigger.———————Quote————–

          Your statement above is why I responded to it. I wanted to point out that your statement is patently false and I provided plenty of real life examples that Gocks do indeed go off without someone deliberately pulling the trigger therefore it is an unsafe design both in terms of no manual safety and a take down system that is unsafe as well.

          Even Glocks in a holster have gone off which proves that the Glock can be unsafe to carry anytime. Yes you could blame the holster design and with some justification but other types of guns using the same type of holster do not go off. And yes there are good holsters made for Glocks that are stiff enough not to fold over when holstering the gun and cause a discharge but again how many people actually buy such a holster and then use it or are even aware that buying an incorrect soft shell holster can cause an accident which again leads us right back to the faulty design of the Glock.

          I consider the manual safety a must to be installed on a Glock but unfortunately you still have to deal with the unsafe take down system which has led me to start carrying an H&K P30S and I am considering buying the compact version as well. This gun is about as fool proof as you can get. It has a double action pull, it has a manual safety and a de-cocking lever (something you cannot do with a Glock). Its safety can also be in the “on” position when loading and unloading the gun. The H&K P30 take down system is far safer as well requiring you to lock back the slide to take it down.

          The whole point I was trying to make is that yes there are some guns that are way safer to use and operate than the Glock or the copy cat Glock pistols because you are far more likely to have an accident with a Glock than say an H&K P30 or a Beretta 92 etc. etc. etc.

  17. avatar Ironhead says:

    Had one with a glock. Thankfully no one got hurt. Mag dropped out while I was shooting it and I thought the chamber was empty. I set it down pointed down range. I leaned over to pick up the magazine lost my balance reached out to grab the bench and bang. Scared the sh!t outta me.
    My own dumbass fault for not clearing the chamber.

  18. avatar MLee says:

    I could have had a negligent discharge a week or so ago. My 229 was pointed in a somewhat safe direction, if my wall doesn’t mind a .40 hollow point hole in it and one of my dogs was a mere feet away. I had dropped the mag and pulled the slide back to unload it. No round popped out. I pulled the slide back again and again no round. The Sig has a hammer drop. I pointed the gun in a safe direction and was thinking about pulling the trigger, but didn’t and used the hammer drop. I thought for a moment why no round popped out. I pulled back again, this time really hard and the round popped out. I had not yanked hard enough. I’m really glad I used the hammer drop and didn’t shoot a hole in my wall. I don’t give a shit about the wall but my doggie wouldn’t have liked that at all not to mention her ears. I would have been PISSED at myself.

    1. So many gun people, reputable instructors as well, have an unload process that I think is not failsafe. And it could be. They remove the magazine, rack the slide multiple times, point the gun in a “safe” direction and pull the trigger.
      I only rack it once and I will never have an ND when I pull the trigger. Racking the slide twice, three, or ten times is done because the round may have failed to extract on the first rack. So you have a failure to extract yet you rely on a failed process to confirm an unload. Imprudent.
      Lock the slide open. Stick your little finger in the chamber. It’s either empty or it isn’t and you have verified that. Failsafe.

      1. avatar Joe in San Antonio says:

        I have a similar method, I always lock open the breach and visually inspect the chamber. Doesn’t matter the circumstances.

        1. Visually and tactile. You have to be able to do it in low light and you may not see anything but you have to be sure. Just because it isn’t seen doesn’t mean it isn’t there.

  19. avatar Joe in San Antonio says:

    We had NDs in the box a few times mostly tired Soldiers firing into the clearing barrel. We did have a Soldier accidently shoot a medic though. They were dismounting a MAXPRO and the gunner failed to clear his SAW before getting out of the web seat, well as he was getting down he let a volley go off at the loading gate and a round and some fragments richocheted and hit the medic in the leg. I always use the 4 rules of safety based on that, shit still happens but the event was entirely avoidable. The gunner shouldn’t have been flagging the ramp, he should have Cleared and the tc should have checked, the gunner should have also kept his hands away from the weapon controls as he dismounted.

  20. I don’t think NDs are inevitable. Just inevitable for idiots.
    The author already proved he was an idiot before his negligence when he thought it was a good idea to use a single action revolver for home defense when he already owned a PX4.

  21. avatar Docduracoat says:

    We in anesthesia have a patient safety foundation and have been studying the issue of safety for a long time
    Our workforce is highly motivated and has mandatory continuing education
    The same cannot be said of gun owners
    Even among anesthesia providers the same critical errors keep occurring
    We have found that unfamiliar equipment, fatigue, and inattention are common causes of error.
    Inattention is not daydreaming, it is seeing what you expect to see and not what is really there
    Like the poster who did not see the round in the chamber because he expected there to be no round in the chamber
    We have turned our efforts to engineering safety into the equipment as the human element WILL make mistakes
    Guns have a lot of room for safety to be engineered into the design
    I would agree that Glock has a lot to do in this regard
    The need to pull the trigger to field strip a striker fired pistol is a major design flaw!
    There are plenty of other striker designs that do not need a trigger pull to take apart
    I am not advocating for thumb safeties or magazine disconnect safeties for everyone
    Those are an example of an engineering approach that needs to be encouraged
    The maker will determine if people will buy buy a ” safer” gun

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