Anaheim Police Officer ‘Get Off My Lawn’ Shooting a Negligent Discharge?

Protests broke out overnight in southern California after a cell phone video emerged showing an off duty LAPD officer drawing and discharging his firearm while trying to forcibly remove a teenager from his private property. The incident comes during a time of increased distrust between minority groups and police officers, fueled by a series of high profile police shootings which those minority groups don’t consider to have been justified.

The question in this case: what the heck happened?

According to reports, the incident actually began quite some time ago. The officer in question had become frustrated with the high number of teenagers entering his private property and crossing his lawn in order to get to their school. While the normal response might have been to put up a fence or get a mean dog, the officer apparently decided to go all Gran Torino on the teenagers to try and force them off his lawn.

Exactly what happened before the start of the video is still disputed, but the video opens with the teenagers being confronted by the off duty police officer. The officer attempts to forcibly remove the teenagers by himself, and at one point deciding to draw his firearm after being struck by at least one of them.

California does have a “castle doctrine” law which gives residents greater freedom in the use of force for those defending their home, but in this case the incident occurred outside where the normal self defense laws apply. In California, deadly force is only allowed to be used if the individual is in imminent threat of physical harm — and even then, they’re required to employ “no more force than necessary” to defend themselves.

In the video there is a moment where the crowd decides to attack the police officer, pushing him over a hedge and into a neighboring driveway. This happens well after the officer had initiated contact by grabbing the teenager and attempting to apprehend him by himself. Possibly in an attempt to control the crowd and keep himself from coming to harm the officer draws his weapon and then continues to grapple with the teenager.

During the struggle a gunshot is heard. No injuries have been reported. What happened?

The officer is seen drawing his firearm and then uses both of his hands to attempt to pull the teenager over a hedge. It’s likely that in attempting to pull the teen over the hedge, the officer accidentally placed his finger on the trigger of his firearm causing it to discharge.

We’re sure to hear much more about this incident as both sides tell their stories. But I think most gun owners can understand what caused the negligent discharge — the officer improperly handled his firearm. He’s extremely fortunate that no one was struck by the stray round.

Should the officer have called for backup and waited for them to arrive? Perhaps a fence would indeed have been an easier solution? I’m sure the comment section below will be rife with better ideas of how to handle this situation, and we can all learn from what happened here.

comments

  1. avatar LarryinTX says:

    TV video shows the guy dragging the kid back ON to his property, I’m not thinking we have the whole story. I don’t understand why there were DOZENS of kids all over the property in the video, running like hell when the gun appeared (that hints, to me, that they knew they were pulling shit they should not have been), I suspect there was a location for dealing drugs involved, or maybe for sharing a doobie. Craziness can wait until we know what happened.

    1. avatar Silphy says:

      Dozens of kids? I guess you never walked to school with a group of friends, particularly a big school. IT’s not uncommon. As for what I witnessed, Cop tried to do what solo and off duty what’s supposed to be done by several on duty officers. Second, WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH HIM. If you have to draw your fire arm, you don’t try to keep in the melee, you try to make distance. This was beyond stupid of him, even from a defensive standpoint.
      Also, OF course they ran when a gun came out.

      But seriously. Only an idiot tries to engage a crowd by himself, over something like “Kids are on my lawn.” You sit back in your house, keep armed, and call the police, only using your fire arm in defence of you and yours. Were the kids right? Fuck no. Was the guy right? Absofuckinglutly not. He knew it was an issue, wait for it to happen, call the cops (His co-workers in this case) and DO NOT ENGAGE A GROUP ALONE UNLESS YOU HAVE NO CHOICE. Stupid games, stupid prizes, I hope he at the least gets put on desk work for the rest of his career.

      1. avatar kevin says:

        He should have known better.

        1. avatar GlocksRock says:

          No. He shoulda drawn and shot sooner. Like the moment the first punk stepped on his property meaning the landowner’s life was in danger.

          Problem solved. No kid will trespass again.

          By the way, pretty sad draw there copper. Fife much?

      2. avatar andyNC says:

        Well put.

      3. avatar The Gray Poseur says:

        Thanks for downloading you knowledge for us silphy. I figure you must be highly trained. I never would have thought of any of your directives. Or is this just virtue signalling. I don’t know.

      4. This guy handled the situation horribly. The kids may have been in the wrong in the first place, but if he would have just gone out and yelled at them or told them the cops were coming, he could have avoided this. Why the hell was he holding on to some highschooler? And why draw your gun? You really going to shoot some kid for walking on your lawn? Now you’re famous for being stupid, good job.

        1. avatar Mike C says:

          The cop maintains that the kid threatened to shoot him. That’s why he was arresting the kid, not because the kid was trespassing. He didn’t pull his gun until after he had been knocked over the hedgerow by a few of the young thugs. At that point, he was on one side of the hedges, while the kid was still on the other side. He was holding the kid’s jacket with his right hand. When the other older kids started to approach him again, he drew his gun with his left hand. The gun seemed to go off when he pulled the kid over the hedge. When he yanked on the kid with his right hand, I’m guessing his finger was on the trigger and the trigger was accidentally pulled through a sympathetic reflex.

          Even if the arrest was legal and the shot was an accidental discharge, he’s going through a boatload of trouble to arrest a kid for a charge that will be difficult to prove.

        2. avatar Eric says:

          Kid is 13. So, middle school. For goodness sakes, what a way to represent both the police and gun owners. Making both look really, really bad.

        3. avatar Garrison Hall says:

          The confrontation is not vary different from other recent events, all of which pose serious danger for an individual citizen. We’re focusing attention on the actions of the cop/homeowner (who was on his own property) but who was definitely threatened by a group of teenagers who were rapidly becoming a mob. As a property owner he had every right to order them off his property. While we’re dwelling on the presumed innocence of the 13 year old kid, it’s worth thinking about the Hollywood Stuntz biker gang which staged a similar confrontation and then attacked an SUV driver in NYC in 2013. The only difference between this mob and that mob was the bikes. The cop/homeowner was on his own property being threatened and then attacked by people who weren’t supposed to be there. End of issue. Oh, yeah, this is Califa, however . . .

      5. avatar Joe says:

        “the police acted stupidly”. There now that we’ve gotten that off our chest……

    2. avatar Huntmaster says:

      Isn’t this what they make hoses for?

      1. avatar The Gray Poseur says:

        I chase kids off my property semi-frequently. I got one rule: stay in the truck. Keeps me out of Zimmerman world. Cops are more than happy to respond if the kids don’t take off. That’s their job. Not mine.

        A little virtue signaling on my part.

    3. avatar DaveR says:

      ” running like hell when the gun appeared (that hints, to me, that they knew they were pulling shit they should not have been),”

      They ran after the gun was **fired**

      And a group dispersing at the sound of gunfire is a pretty natural response.

    4. avatar Ricardo In CA says:

      Larry just use your brains for at least once in your life time. Just image your self in Tijuana,MX with your family eating in some x restaurant. The table next to you start getting in an argument and pulled out a gun? Are you going to be stupid and stay there or run away for protection? Oh so you running away because you are doing something illegal or to save your life? That’s why the teenager’s run away. I think you and me will do the same shit!!!

  2. avatar Lee says:

    Probably just a warning shot into the rose bushes. I see nothing wrong with this. The teenagers were tresspassing. The cop has the right to detain the supect. The kids went crazy, tried to tackle him, and he was about to get beat up by at least 6 teenagers. He has the right to self defense.

    The police officer did a great job here. Nobody was hurt, lessons were learned.

    1. avatar kevin says:

      The cop would have been well served to go to Home Depot, buy fertilizer and water his law for two minutes, five minutes before school got out. Or put up a picket fence. Or call Anaheim PD to deal with it. As it is, he’s branded a racist, triggerhappy jerkoff. He will have to sell his house (if he can find someone willing to buy it, with the notoriety), might lose his job, and might get prosecuted. What a tool.

      Sure, the kids were wrong to go on his lawn. But as 13 year olds, they might be excused for acting like knuckleheads. But a 40-something cop? He should know better than to 1) get in over his head with a crowd, 2) get physical when he might not win, and 3) draw his gun without a deadly threat, 4) not know how to handle it (or worse, fire a warning shot).

      1. avatar Jack Clancy says:

        You have no idea. Read comments below. They tore down my fence. They through stuff at my dogs.

        1. avatar kevin says:

          What do you have to do with this?
          Sorry to break it to you: it ain’t about you.

        2. avatar Ian in Transit says:

          In many (maybe most) new neighborhoods now fences in the front yard or forbidden by the neighborhood nazi’s (HOA). A fence may not have been an option. Another option that is more costly and time consuming (and may still be denied by the HOA) is to plant thorny bushes along your property line. I once got a letter from my HOA warning me of a fine if I didn’t fix the dead patch in my yard. I wrote them a scathing letter in return about the parade of children and parents that cross my yard to get to the neighborhood pool a couple blocks away and that unless they erected a fence themselves to divert the traffic they would be responsible for maintaining the unwanted path through my yard. Never heard from them again. 2 years later they put up a fence when they redid the entire neighborhoods fencing. Sucks that I had to wait 2 years but at least I didn’t end up on youtube.

          If there is history here as the article says then he may well have already exhausted other avenues. Unruly shitheads acting like unruly shitheads with the law on their side and no repercussions will continue to act like unruly little shitheads. Off duty cop detaining a trespasser is OK. Assaulting somebody conducting an arrest is not. Defending yourself from an assault, particularly by multiple assailants is OK. Might not have been legal in Commiefornia but the only wrongdoing I see here is by the unruly shitheads.

    2. avatar Warlocc says:

      Are you out of your mind?

      If I saw a dude dragging a kid around like that, I’d get involved too. While more information may be forthcoming, the info we have here clearly shows an angry, unstable guy with a gun being the aggressor. Behavior we’ve come to expect from far too many cops today.

      There’s a million things you can do about kids on your lawn that don’t involve a self defense situation. I know, I’ve done them.

      For once, I’m on the side of the protesters.

    3. avatar Joe says:

      A warning shot? You mean he attempted the Joe Biden defense? But I thought bustin a few blasts over someone’s head was supposed to be done with a double barrelled shotgun off your balcony?!!!

    4. avatar Huntmaster says:

      If he did such a great job he wouldn’t be national news and we wouldn’t be discussing it here. Period.

      1. avatar Yawnz says:

        How many mobs of people do you deal with on a daily basis? I mean, clearly you’re an expert.

  3. avatar PROUD chicano says:

    He clearly dragged the kid on his property. LEO’s should know better than to engage in something like this.

    1. avatar kevin says:

      Whether or not he dragged the kid on his property, an LEO should know better than to engage in something like this.

    2. avatar Stan says:

      BS. That’s the part you saw. These illegals think they can break the law with impunity. They can’t. And it’s about time someone stopped them. I applaud the cop.

      1. avatar andyNC says:

        It’s illegal to be a teenager?

        1. avatar Andrew says:

          No but is illegal to trespass. Why is that all of these incidents are black or Hispanic involved. They have no respect for anything other that gang bangers and bling. Just like the little Mex that shot the bald eagle near my Neighborhood. His shot should have hit and then been given a crime stoppers award. Bunch of Damn turds, flush them all.

      2. avatar Gabriel says:

        what makes you think they are illegal these are just some dumb kids crossing the lawn of some asshole who lost his temper dont make this a situation about politics its a guy who failed to use his training in escalation of force and they werent thugs they were kids trying to save their friend who most likely was being apprehended unfairly why is it the kids are lying we see cops do vile shit all the time but because they happen to be hispanic theyre smoking doobies, thugs, up to no good, a mob that is tresspassing? btw this happened in an orange county cul de sac not some farm where tresspassing really is an issue rather than turning on the sprinklers like my mom does or calling the cops he decided to handle it himself and grabbed a kid who defended some girl who was insulted what if these kids were white and the cop was black or hispanic would the it be different? or is it because there is the potential that some of these kids might be illegal or the children of illegals than they should have less right and legitimacy? btw like 4 of the 5 trump children are anchor babies and they get to hang out in the white house and take our tax money to protect them so why are they different because theyre white anchor babies? dont make this petty and about race make it about lack of police training and failure in that officers part of proper weapon handling and poorly handling a volatile situation dont blame children for acting like dumb children he was the adult he should have known better race aside

    3. avatar Defens says:

      He clearly dragged the kid over a hedge – it’s not clear from the video whose property that was, since both the kid and the officer started out on the other side of the hedge. The officer was knocked over the hedge by one or more other kids (kid in red shirt) and maintained his grip on the youth that he eventually pulled over to the same side.

      Are the lawn, hedge and driveway all part of the same property? It looks like, but hard to tell.

  4. avatar Isaac says:

    Waiting for more information but I’d like to see the “chot ’em an’ drag ’em inside” stupidity to follow (getting popcorn ready now).

  5. avatar Jack Clancy says:

    It would have helped if he had used the proper weapon. M1 Grand, get off my lawn.

    I owned a house across from a High School. Drugs bought sold and used on my property, trash, property damage, cars parked in my driveway, my driveway blocked, repeatedly had cars towed, repeatedly had police at the house and loud mouth punks in a middle class neighborhood. After 10 years we sold the house and moved a few miles away. ABSOLUTELY no respect from these BASTARDS! If I would have been present I would come to his aide and busted open a can of whoop ass.

    More than likely an accidental discharge.

    NEVER OWNER OCCUPY A HOUSE NEXT TO A HIGH SCHOOL OR COLLEGE!!!

    1. avatar Ed says:

      My question to you is was the school there before you bought the house? Two years ago I myself was house hunting and wanted NOTHING to do with a house anywhere near a school. Even still, this guy was just acting like an asshole the way he handled it, and the negligent discharge proves it. Call the local p.d. and have them deal with it…. I bet this guy is so much fun to deal with on a traffic stop.

      1. avatar Stan says:

        The standard for negligence is would a reasonable person in the same situation act differently. Answer: no.

        1. avatar VerendusAudeo says:

          We have very different definitions of the word “reasonable”. Would a reasonable person physically confront teenagers walking across his lawn and then pull a gun on them when they reacted to being physically assaulted by some random guy?

        2. avatar Hannibal says:

          It is legal to confront teenagers walking across your property. It is also legal to physically arrest one for trespass (as a police officer, I do not know the citizen arrest laws in CA). If that person, who was caught committing a crime, then assaults the person making a legal arrest the latter may use as much force as is reasonable to defend himself while making the arrest. Is the display or use of a firearm reasonable? Maybe, depending on the disparity of force (size, numbers, etc).

          The lesson is that if you are trespassing or committing another crime you don’t get to play the ‘hey, he’s just some random guy!’ card when the property owner grabs you. You are the criminal.

        3. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

          You also have to have harm for there to be negligence. Here’s google’s definition under the subheading law, “failure to use reasonable care, resulting in damage or injury to another.”

          So, I would say this was an accidental discharge, not a negligent discharge. Though in California, you probably have emotional distress as a harm independent of any physical harm or intent.

  6. avatar C.Z. says:

    These are potentially life taking tools. I don’t view them as “get off my lawn” signs or tools to win a disagreement. This in no way was ever a deadly force situation.

    This guy gives responsible gun owners a bad name and damages my hopes for less not more regulation surrounding guns.

    If you can’t deescalate that situation or remove yourself from it in a responsible way you’re more likely to be the aggressor (perpetrator) than someone defending themselves. This is poor impulse control that should never have happened. The officer is lucky he didn’t take a life for something as petty as this.

    1. avatar Defens says:

      The biggest problem with the “less not more regulation of firearms” is that cops ALWAYS manage to get a carve out in gun control legislation, so that the onerous stuff doesn’t apply to them. A few years ago, before Washington State updated their laws so that private citizens could own AND use suppressors, I took a defensive carbine class that also had some cops in it. When the cops started screwing cans onto their rifles, they looked at me like I had just landed from Mars, when I pointed out that legally they couldn’t use the cans – there was no carve out in the law, it applied to everyone. They went ahead (of course, I was just screwing with them) but were plenty pissed when I quoted the relevant section of the Revised Code of Washington to them. Of course, they couldn’t really articulate why they were above the law, either.

      The final insult was when me and my buddies from Microsoft out-shot the lot of them.

  7. avatar More Dead Soldiers says:

    “Aggravated kidnapping under the color of authority”

    Police cheerleaders will defend this.

    1. avatar Warlocc says:

      For once, I think you and I will agree on this one.

    2. avatar Stan says:

      He’s making an arrest numbnutz.

      1. avatar More Dead Soldiers says:

        Funny you say that, because he did not announce he was making an arrest, nor did he identify himself as a cop. The second point ought to be irrelevant, because government employment does not excuse this kind of malfeasant behavior, but as we all know, it certainly does.

        In the land of the free, you are expected to go limp in the face of armed aggression because the aggressor has been anointed with government powers.

        1. avatar Hannibal says:

          He doesn’t have to announce “I am hereby making an arrest!” And incidentally in many places a citizen witnessing someone commit a crime on their property can arrest someone without being a cop.

        2. avatar More Dead Soldiers says:

          Then in the lingo of the wannabe sheepdog, how do you know a “good guy” from a “bad guy”? Moreover, how do you know it is just a “bad guy” kidnapping you?

          The only crime I see in the video is an aggravated kidnapping.

  8. avatar Stuki Moi says:

    Isn’t there some banter about “told you to stay away from my truck….” in there? If so, that may have provoked the confrontation.

    Regardless, and I’m not laying blame on the cop, who seems pretty darned well behaved and controlled until scared of being bumrushed by seemingly 20 increasingly volatile teens: If the kids were properly armed as well, and everybody knew it, these kinds of situations would never even get off the ground. None of the kids looked like wannabe cop killers. The cop not a wannabe child murderer. But things just got out of hand because: Unarmed societies, inevitably degenerate into impolite ones.

    1. avatar Vhyrus says:

      As much as I love the second amendment I don’t think I will ever be on board with arming what looks to me to be middle school children. I do not see how all of those kids having Glocks would have improved that situation in any way.

      1. avatar Stuki Moi says:

        As long as enough people are armed that you have to assume everyone is, people simply act more politely.

        Very few “situations” start out as intentional gun fights. Instead, they start out as small disagreements or slights. Then escalate to words. Then fists. Then lawyers, guns, bombs, nukes, what have you. As long as the only means you have to respond, when someone does something that may well annoy you a little, is either to ignore it (aka be polite), or a glove slap in the face and 20 paces at high noon; you will, in all but the gravest of circumstances, choose the ignore option. Which is what makes armed societies polite ones to begin with. And conversely, unarmed ones impolite ones.

  9. avatar gp says:

    Look at the kid in the red shirt who hops the hedge toward the officer. He pulls something from above his ear and, seeing the officer reaching for his gun, stuffs it into his left rear pants pocket. Is it a knife or a razor?

    Watching the man struggle for seconds trying to reach his gun (with left hand) is agonizing! I’m going to practice drawing twice as much now.

    In my city, teenage boys commit most of the violent crime. They are amoral monsters for the most part. They’ll jump or jack anybody they see alone, if they think they can get away with it. Yet our twisted laws protect them as “juveniles.”

    1. avatar FlamencoD says:

      It was a pen in his ear he was moving to his pocket. Who keeps a knife or razor tucked away in their ear? Come on!

  10. avatar Stan says:

    When attempting to make an arrest, if a mob is encircling you and threatening you, the obvious thing to do is pull out a weapon. I would have less patience than the cop did. Good for him for meeting force with force. As you can see in the video, the punks are insolent uneducated POS, that deserve an ass-whoppin’.

    1. avatar uptown says:

      Yup. These are the future criminals of California. And under the law this guy is righteous, whether a cop or a citizen. You can detain an infactor under the PC. Getting swarmed by a mob while making an arrest (and he does not have to identify himself as a cop to do so), draw your weapon. All good until he has trouble getting his gun. Ouch. Then the AD. Holding the weapon with the same hand he is wrestling with, big error.

    2. avatar Garrison Hall says:

      ” , , ,if a mob is encircling you and threatening you, . . .”

      The video clearly shows when the crowd suddenly changes into a threatening mob. When the cop/homeowner back away from them, the contagion effect takes place and several kids become menacing. This discussion can go back and forth for some time, but think about something. If you’re walking down the street and find yourself surrounded by a bunch of kids in this exact manner what would you do?

  11. avatar strych9 says:

    I’m in the wait and see boat.

    Based on what I see here the cop thought the kid threatened to shoot him while the kid argues he said he was going to sue. The cop has made it clear the reason for what’s going on (a threat) and that the kid is now resisting.

    The fired shot was probably an ND rather than intentional but at this point I won’t fault the guy for drawing a gun while surrounded by a hostile crowd that is growing more impatient (see piss poor attempted tackle ~2:14) and the potential for violence against the officer is increasing as time goes on.

    That said I don’t believe a word the kids say. “I’m only, like, 13”. Like 13? You don’t know how old you are? Bullshit. Then we have the bystander comments from amateur lawyers saying things like “He’s grabbing a minor” as if being a minor means the cops can’t touch you and we have, prior to that comment, suggestions that the guy is a “p@$$y” for intentionally nut-shotting the kid which, again, is total fucking horseshit and based on the video I doubt it happened. Either none of these kids have ever been in a fight or they’re intentionally trying to say things to paint the situation in a way that’s as favorable to their friend as they can while also amping up the crowd.

    1. avatar FlamencoD says:

      I agree the teens were saying crap that didn’t happen knowing it was being recorded hoping to get the guy in trouble. I have seen cops do the same thing in videos. And that idiot kid saying “I didn’t say I was going to shoot you, I said I was going to shooo you”. Ohhhh, right, shooo.

  12. avatar Jason says:

    I’m personally a fan of spite fences. Unfortunately, most municipalities prohibit them. I wonder about spite moats, though.

    I endured a year in the pest control game and one of the things I learned is that the most effective method of dealing with pests is exclusion. I’m sure it will work as well for teenagers as it does for rats.

    1. avatar LKB says:

      I’m a big fan of “defensive” plantings to deter trespassers: prickly pear cactus, Texas sotol, bougainvillea, etc. Nice to look at but will shred you in very short order in you try to go through it. But it being California, it’s probably illegal to do so there.

      1. avatar Jason says:

        Barberry is delightfully brutal too!

        That said, I still like the idea of a solid 20 foot high fence around my property.

        1. avatar LKB says:

          Barberry (which I also have a lot of) is more annoying than hazardous. Texas Sotol, OTOH, will rip you up in very short order.

      2. avatar strych9 says:

        Landela Mineica is a rare species but very effective.

        1. avatar The Gray Poseur says:

          Sure. Appreciate your horticultural knowledge. I prefer 3 Guys Moving Company instead.

          Solve the problem directly and decisively. Move. Not plant freaking plants.

        2. avatar KBonLI says:

          Poison Ivy if you can’t move.

  13. avatar Arc says:

    Looks like a bunch of ghetto dwellers that decided to stir up some after school trouble in an upclass neighborhood. Hoodies, so many of them in hoodies, only non-ghetto person I saw was beard man and his crutch. I’m guessing the guy with the beard is a neighbor and there are likely more than a few credible witnesses around and security cameras on these houses.

    *DISCLAIMER* I watched the video up until some punk tried to jump the cop and shove him over the hedge, has every bloody right to pull a gun with a mob around him, especially when they get physical. Shit, he should have had it out when they all started moving in on him.

    I don’t like cops at all, but his use of force is justified once they shoved him, likely before hand. Mobs can turn violent the moment one person does something stupid.

  14. avatar Vhyrus says:

    My only beef with this guy is that he tried to John Wayne a bunch of punks. He’s a COP. One phone call and it would have looked like a freakin Krispy Kreme on his front lawn in 5 minutes. If you draw your gun on a crowd you retreat and increase distance, not close rank and try to strong arm one in a group of 20 one handed. This dude let his pride take over and it got him in trouble.

    I will say I see a big problem with modern society is that parents teach their children they are perfect and if someone else takes offense with them it must be the other guys problem. These kids thought they could go and do as they please and if an adult touches them they have some sort of immunity. Teach your children that ass whoopings can and do happen, especially to big mouth kids who don’t check their lane.

    1. avatar Dev says:

      Exactly right! All he had to do was call in and say his life was in danger.

  15. avatar Roymond says:

    A friend when I was in college lived near where a new middle school went in, grades 7 – 9. It wasn’t long before the animals, er. kids were doing the same there.

    He put up with it for the first school year, then over the summer planted a hedge of Oregon grape. It’s almost as bad as holly for being touch and stickery, plus the branches will grow at angles that serve to trip people trying to cut through. It solved the problem except for some athletic types who just jumped the hedge.

    The trouble with kids that age is they’re mobs (or animal packs) waiting to happen. With the laissez-faire parenting most parents adopt these days, they’re a horde of barbarians within the gates. In my high school days, the lettermen and other varsity athletes kep everyone in line, but now it seems they’re part of the problem.

    1. avatar strych9 says:

      As much as I dislike the “kids these days” attitude I have to agree with you to a large extent.

      I noted this change in 1999. I was in high school and a student assistant to a teacher during my study hall period. Now, when I was in middle school we were terrified of high school kids because they’d beat your ass if you screwed with them. It didn’t happen for no reason and generally they were enforcers of what you might consider societal mores.

      After Columbine telling kids in that age group that no one could ever touch them for any reason became the rage. When I was a student assistant a 7th grader was constantly causing trouble. I never went past verbal warnings with him because I knew what he said was true. He told me that he didn’t have to listen to me or to the teacher because we couldn’t touch him without him calling CPS/the police. Since we couldn’t touch him he didn’t have to listen to us. He sat there and fucking said this to our faces.

      He had reasoned through what every adult knows: without the eventual threat of physical repercussions, to some people rules mean nothing. He wasn’t afraid of anything other than a physical consequence and therefore felt, as he so boldly stated, that he could do “whatever the fuck” he wanted.

      What he didn’t know was that his brother was a friend of mine so an asswhipping was in his future. Unfortunately his brother, wishing to see his family member straiten up and fly right, told the kid why said asswhipping was being administered. The younger brother, being rather intelligent, sought vengeance against myself and the teacher in the form of flat out making shit up. He alleged drug use in the classroom. An investigation started. Now, nothing of the sort had ever happened so the investigation turned up nothing and the teacher had union protection. I didn’t, so I ended up getting suspended for three days because “Well, when allegations like this come up with have to do something”. Which of course only emboldened this little cretin further. A few years later he got a DUI which was the start of what I understand to be a very troubled young life which he is currently living in a Michigan prison.

      1. avatar Jeff K says:

        Actually too bad when he was DUI he hit a tree & just killed himself.

  16. avatar Sian says:

    Vertical video convinces me he should have shot them all.

    Also did you see how many tries it took him to get to the crossdraw pistol with his off hand? Yow.

    1. avatar FlamencoD says:

      I counted at least 6 and likely 7 attempts to pull his shirt up over the gun, and then 2 attempts to get the gun out. 8 or 9 attempts. Sheesh. He would have been better off just grabbing his shirt with a fistful above the gun and yanking it up over his gun, not finessing it over with a slight finger grab on the bottom seam of his shirt. Lessons learned.

      1. avatar The Gray Poseur says:

        He’d have been better off staying the Fock out of it. Just move dude. Why be the next Zimmerman. He may be right or wrong, but you just don’t want to be the next Zimmerman.

  17. avatar More Dead Soldiers says:

    The hilarity of people moaning about “kids these days”, but now a whimper of “cops these days”.

    1. avatar the ruester says:

      It’s because cops usually end up being vindicated, and the punks you defend usually end up being exposed as liars. This has been Obvious McObverton, reporting for Obvious News.

  18. avatar Lcsw says:

    Kids think they can do what they want then when confronted they cry about just being kids. It’s a sad state of affairs.

  19. avatar FlamencoD says:

    Everyone saying the cop was out of line for drawing his firearm…not exactly. One guy knocked him over attempting to tackle him, and within seconds another guy literally took a swing with his right fist and hit the cop, while simultaneously another teen was coming up onto his side in an offensive manor.

    I’m not saying the cop was in the right for trying to wrangle the kid along, but he wasn’t in the wrong at that moment for drawing his firearm. A mob can get out of hand quickly. Obviously, the ND was negligent handling of his firearm. He shouldn’t have continued to grapple with the kid with a gun in his hand. That was dumb. He should have drawn his gun and made distance between him and the group with his finger off the trigger, probably in a low ready position.

  20. avatar Bohucka says:

    I just started substitute teaching at an “economically depressed” middle school. It’s 51% Hispanic, 23% black, 16% Asian, and 10% white. Now I know that even when I went to school in the 70s, a substitute teacher was a good way to kill 45 minutes without having to do much learning, unless the teacher was there long-term. I’m lucky to keep these kids in their seats and relatively quiet. It also amazes me that the school district has its own police department. I leave this school at the end of the day depressed and fearful of what these kids are going to grow up to be. Education seems to be the furthest thing from their minds, with a few exceptions. It’s sad to see that they have given up at such a young age.

    1. avatar Varn Ford says:

      There was a news report just today on this very topic. Essentially they said that, in California, we have not seen anything yet. As underprivileged immigrants flood into the state we will see more and more of this. It seems as if their parents egg them on. This is exactly what the immigrants want, that is, to create flight. Normal people will just eventually move to a free state where they tend to control these rats and vermin. As the years pass, California will be further and further into the toilet, that is unless something drastic is done about it beginning now.

    2. avatar Garrison Hall says:

      Here’s some free advice from a former private school principal and teacher: leave now. You can find comparable jobs at better schools with better students. You can fall on your sword at a school like that and your selfless sacrifice still won’t mean anything at all. Low-income, minority dominant public schools are doomed. They are burn-out factories for beginning teachers. School administrators and veteran teachers know this quite well. Beginning teachers who start at such places usually leave not only the school but teaching and seek less insane employment. Although they pay a bit less, here in Texas Catholic schools tend to enforce discipline more effectively than public schools. They can be rather pleasant places to teach.

      1. avatar Bohucka says:

        Thanks for the advice. I’m an old guy who was getting bored and thought maybe this would be a fun way to spend a few days a month, but obviously I was mistaken. I told my wife that private schools would probably be more to my liking, but I’m not going through all kinds of vetting seeking a part-time job that was supposed to just add a few bucks to the coffers. Think I’ll just do detention and in-school suspension classes from now on. Those kids next step is total suspension, and as cocky as they may act, the threat of that strikes fear into their…hearts? Apparently, as long as they are in the building, their parents think everything is copacetic.

  21. avatar Nanashi says:

    They were already damaging or stealing private property (they are told to get away from his truck), already struck him, swarmed him and were warned to stop. Trespassing is secondary.

    FACT: Teenagers are overwhelmingly the most violent age demographic. A cop should be reasonably expected to know this, from observation if not raw statistics. Them being “children” is actually a point in his favor.

  22. avatar Jason says:

    The cop was a first class a hole. The whole video except for the news he had his hands on some unarmed kids throat. I believe that’s called asualt and battery. If convicted, which wouldn’t be hard, he automatically looses his job (you can’t handle firearms.) The kids 100lbs soaking wet, not only is he small, he’s a minor. He’s convicted. I’m sure the kids no angel. Maybe he’s trading smack for sexual favors but what does he care, it’s his day off, let someone else handle it. It’s a learning experience, no doubt. You can’t tune up kids anymore and not loose your job. He screwed up, he can never own a gun again, and mom’s going to be rich.

    1. avatar More Dead Soldiers says:

      “If convicted, which wouldn’t be hard”

      That is where you are wrong. He is protected.

      1. avatar Jason says:

        Remember Rodney King? The kid didn’t do anything wrong AND he was blatantly assaulted by the cop. Rodney King was a repeat offender, nearly ran over the cops that “beat” him then he’s throwing punches at the cops and he gets off while they go to jail. He’s “protected” and people wonder why we hate cops. They need to make an example of him. If I was a lawyer I would be seeing money money in a civil suit. That Ahole will be living in a box, pulling a gun, pulling the kid back on his property, holding him for at least 6 maybe 8 minutes that we saw. No, if they were already having riots that night they very well might make an example of him. As they should!

    2. avatar Varn Ford says:

      After trying to detain the kid for trespassing and possible vandalism the police officer was attacked by to more teens. One punched him and another ran into him and pushed him over the hedge. That is assault and battery. Wasn’t one of these teens arrested for assault?

      1. avatar More Dead Soldiers says:

        “possible vandalism”

        Notice how the police cheerleader lies snowball.

        Reminds me of the Philando Castile shooting where a police chief lied about him not having a CCL, then refusing to admit he did so when presented with a paper copy. Didn’t stop the internet sheepdogs from lapping it up though. As if carrying a gun with a CCL warrants a death sentence. In a community where constitutional carry is a constant talking point. Oh, the hypocrisy.

  23. avatar TheOtherDavid says:

    I won’t comment on whether he should or should not have been grappling with the kids, I don’t know all the circumstances surrounding this. What I do know is that he did an ass-poor job of clearing his cover garment and drawing from his inside the waistband holster. That level of incompetence is a huge invitation to a gun take away. Part of me is also wondering if they did a blood alcohol check on him, the way he’s talking, the way he’s moving, the inability to clear and draw the firearm, I’m wondering if he may have been under the influence? Might explain his attitude, the way he handled the situation, in the first place.

  24. avatar Ralph says:

    This what happens when municipalities build schools when they should be building reformatories.

    1. avatar Brian says:

      You believe soul crushing confinement and dehumanization of children in prison-like conditions is better than education and family support for stemming poverty and violence?

      1. avatar Hannibal says:

        It’s not either or.

        Some kids need support. Some kids need enforced discipline. These kids are getting neither, I’d wager.

      2. avatar Arc says:

        Send them to a line company in the USMC, that will crush their souls. They will know exactly where they want to go in life when they are free.

        1. avatar More Dead Soldiers says:

          “They will know exactly where they want to go in life when they are free.”

          Sure, they will become cops where their mindless obedience and violence-first mindset will work perfectly. 🙂

        2. avatar Arc says:

          @ more dead soldiers
          “sure, they will become cops where their mindless obedience and violence-first mindset will work perfectly. ”

          Mindless obedience? If that were true, there would be no one to NJP because everyone would follow the rules to the letter. There would be no ghost patrols, no skaters, nothing! Everyone would make perfect scores, maintain a 300 PFT, and the military would be very efficient.

          Out of everyone in my platoon, I only recall one transferring to PMO (base police) because he wanted to be a cop. He was a big softie. Some stayed in, some went to higher education, some went private contracting, some got certified while in service and became fitness and therapy instructors, I personally grow vegetables. I hit up BAS in bootcamp because I needed some IV fluids, met a hard as nails SEAL there, he became a doctor/Corpsman because he wanted to heal people. But hey, keep thinking everyone becomes a cop, wear that ignorance like a badge of honor.

          “Violence first” is counter productive, it pisses off local nationals and makes good information and intelligence harder to come by, it causes resentment and lack of cooperation. I do not recall having ever been taught “Violence first” in the infantry. However, I was taught situational awareness, escalation of force, baseline behaviors, and otherwise restraint. I was taught how to balance the need to search vehicles and people thoroughly, while remaining respectful to the people I’m inconveniencing.

        3. avatar More Dead Soldiers says:

          “it pisses off local nationals and makes good information and intelligence harder to come by, it causes resentment and lack of cooperation”

          Indeed. But since the last three COIN efforts of the US military have been miserable failures, obviously what you say is not practiced.

          By the way the mindless obedience only kicks in for criminal behavior. 🙂

          Lawrence La Croix, a squad leader in Charlie Company in My Lai, stated in 2010: “A lot of people talk about My Lai, and they say, ‘Well, you know, yeah, but you can’t follow an illegal order.’ Trust me. There is no such thing. Not in the military. If I go into a combat situation and I tell them, ‘No, I’m not going. I’m not going to do that. I’m not going to follow that order,’ well, they’d put me up against the wall and shoot me.”

    2. avatar Eric in Oregon says:

      That is a depressingly statist comment…

      1. avatar Varn Ford says:

        Well, this is “statist” California. And, they are passing more and more draconian laws each day. Plus, California is getting so tyrannical that they are about to establish the whole state as a sanctuary state. This will attract many criminal illegal aliens to the state in hopes that they will not get deported. Think that the neighborhoods are bad now, just wait until the sanctuary seeking criminals mentor more of these kids. California, due to its sanctuary status, eventually will lose it’s federal funding and those funds make up 37% of the state budget. Get ready for more and higher taxes to make up for this shortfall.

  25. avatar former water walker says:

    Young punks with no respect for their elders-let alone a cop. As someone who’s sons(plural) won awards for good behavior I’m surprised more young boys don’t get shot…and I just watched the confrontation on Inside Edition. Get off my lawn?

  26. avatar DocSarvis says:

    The facts are not in yet, is this just George Nada saving the kids from space aliens?

    http://boobnewb.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/they-live1.jpg

  27. avatar Chris says:

    1.) Just because he said get away from my truck doesn’t mean they were damaging or stealing his property. Example, bunch of kids that he obviously doesn’t like walk by his truck, then he says “get away from my truck”.
    2.) The kids seem pretty reasonable. At least, they are going to school. They all have backpacks (I know – filled with guns and drugs). Only one of the 20 plus kids is stupid enough to push the guy.
    3.)What happened, in my opinion, is the guy was obviously fed up with the kids always cutting through his property, he overreacted, grabbed a kid, was too amped up to let him go, and then the shit hit the fan.
    4.)Lots of stupid!

    1. avatar Varn Ford says:

      One of the teens also punched the officer.

  28. avatar John Boch says:

    There’s a lot of armchair quarterbacks here.

    Let’s look at it dispassionately.

    The officer somehow inspires the ire of this young man he’s holding onto. He has detained the kid because the kid threatened to kill him after the off-duty officer identified himself as a cop.

    The kid is obviously trying to get away.

    The kid’s compatriots are disregarding commands and acting in an increasingly belligerent and aggressive manner. One physically knocks the cop off his feet while others stand ready to join the attack.

    When still more young toughs begin to flank the officer yet again, he draws. Yet some in the crowd persist in their aggressive behavior towards the cop, apparently thinking it’s just a bluff.

    Was the cop justified? Yes. It’s a simple disparity of force.

    Was it a ND? Frankly, if I was the cop, I’d say it was a warning shot that worked out very well even if it was negligent. Given his trigger finger discipline, I think a good argument against a “ND” could be made. Does it really matter though?

    Was getting into a pissing match with these teens the best thing to do, from the get go? No.

    Did the cop make the best of a bad situation? Yes. He dispersed the aggressive group without injuring or killing any of the aggressive teenagers.

    Of course, he’ll never be able to live in that house again, and its market value just tanked to near nothingness.

    This, ladies and gents, is why you need concealed carry insurance in case you find yourself in a similar situation.

    John

    PS: Yeah, his draw sucked. You try drawing from appendix carry with your support hand while holding onto a suspect and having a half-dozen or more aggressors who might pounce on you at any moment and see how you do.

    1. avatar Hannibal says:

      “PS: Yeah, his draw sucked. You try drawing from appendix carry with your support hand while holding onto a suspect and having a half-dozen or more aggressors who might pounce on you at any moment and see how you do.”

      No thanks

      (but I don’t go around trying to arrest suspects off-duty when they have a half-dozen aggressors with them and all I have is a piece in an awkward position to draw)

      I hope somebody monday-morning quarterbacks this guy, next time he could end up dead otherwise.

    2. avatar More Dead Soldiers says:

      >dispassionately
      >side with the cop’s story entirely, completely dismiss the opposing side

      pick one

      “threatened to kill him after the off-duty officer identified himself as a cop”

      He *claims* he identified himself as a cop, a common lie told by cops. The victim also said he made no threat. Apparently in today’s statist society, the word of a cop is ironclad, the word of a civilian is worthless.

      “trying to get away”

      As he should. The cop is obviously unhinged.

      “disregarding commands”

      Considering the cop has provided zero proof of his official credentials, the kids have absolutely zero obligation to obey his commands. Especially when in their view, their friend was being assaulted and kidnapped by a crazy person.

      1. avatar strych9 says:

        Clairvoyance and telepathy. Impressive. Your skills grow by the day young Padawan.

        1. avatar More Dead Soldiers says:

          Note how accepting the word of the cop is somehow not considered clairvoyance. As I said, the word of a civilian is worthless. Not even three-fifths of a cop’s.

        2. avatar strych9 says:

          Not flat out accepting his word usually means “we need to investigate and see if what you’re saying is true or not” but for you it means you already know what happened. Your ability to know things that mere mortals cannot is known as “clairvoyance”.

          I’m not saying cops don’t fuck up and that some of them aren’t complete criminal assholes. I’m certain that both of those things are true. What I’m saying is that you undercut your own argument by acting like a jackass.

        3. avatar More Dead Soldiers says:

          On the contrary, merely putting equal weight to the victims’ claims and the cop’s claim already puts the cop in the wrong. For the cop to remotely justified in his actions, every single one of his outlandish claims need to pan out. The video proves none of what he said. All his claims were contradicted by others present.

          A plain viewing of the video shows a wackjob assaulting and kidnapping a victim while his friends attempt to free him from the unhinged assailant.

  29. avatar fteter says:

    I can understand a property owner having issues with kids disrespecting their property rights. And, other than moving, there really are no good answers to the issue. Call the police, they’ll bawl the kids out. And the kids will just start it up again as the police roll out of the neighborhood.

    Any off-duty LEO should know better. They’re held to a high standard of behavior to begin with. And then attempting to restraint a non-damaging trespasser by force? Maybe in a conservative state, but In California, of all places? Really bad judgment call. Easy to foresee that this approach would escalate into something ugly. The right call is to pull out your cell phone, take a picture of the trespassers, and call the on-duty police.

    Not that the kids involved are innocent little cherubs by any stretch of the imagination. Still this is a classic case of gross overreaction.

  30. avatar cisco kid says:

    Typical untrained sadistic Neanderthal Cop. Kill kids for cutting across your lawn. Brilliant. But that is what they are taught, the solution to all problems no matter how mundane is to kill someone. It gives the bastards a hard on. It is what they live for every day. It was beyond his mentality to put up a fence or even a temporary sign. Much more fun to bully, beat and then murder some one. Give a Goon a gun and a uniform and its unfortunate but they know they can get away with murdering anyone at anytime because the crooked courts are set up to make it just about impossible to convict a Goon of anything.

    As a side bar the Goon in South Carolina that shot the unarmed man in the back and on a cell phone video is still running around loose and has not been convicted of anything and probably never will be. As soon as the public furor and horror are over the crooked courts just release them to kill again.

    In 2015 Mad Dog Goons slaughtered an astonishing 1,500 people in the U.S. while China with 4 1/2 times the population only shot 4 people and Germany only 12. Both of these nations get extensive training before they are able to carry a gun on the streets. Psychopath’s are also weeded out through the vetting and training process as well as they seem to be drawn towards police work like a magnet.

    1. avatar Varn Ford says:

      He did not kill anyone. He was merely trying to scare off the crowd before they assaulted him further.

      BTW, China’s communist government has executed millions of their own citizens.

      1. avatar More Dead Soldiers says:

        “BTW, China’s communist government has executed millions of their own citizens.”

        Ask the Chinese judiciary and they would say, as Arnold put it: “but they were all bad”. Exact same justification used by cop cheerleaders stateside. As such, a worthless comparison.

        By the way, even Chinese judges apologize for wrongful convictions:

        https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-top-judge-apologizes-for-wrongful-convictions-1426184136
        https://qz.com/312390/china-acquits-a-teenager-of-murder-18-years-after-executing-him/

        Meanwhile the US prosecutorial complex actively fights the introduction of exculpatory evidence so politician-prosecutors can burnish their electoral talking points.

        1. avatar maynard says:

          Great Leap Forward

        2. avatar More Dead Soldiers says:

          Trail of Tears

          What’s your point?

        3. avatar cico kid says:

          Yes the Chinese do execute people but so do the Uncivilized U.S. Courts as well. In both cases at least it goes through a court system. But in the U.S. the Cop is always given the option of executing people without trial and seldom does anything happen to them except in rare cases they get fired and then they go get another job at another police department.

          Civilized countries in Europe have long ago done away with the death penalty. Too many times mere circumstantial evidence has sent people to the death chamber and then later they found out the guy was innocent all along. Eye Witness testimony has been proven to be unreliable and often influenced by police many times in the past. With the death penalty you cannot correct a mistake but sadistic Right Wing Morons will say, “Who cares its just collateral damage and besides he was not related to me so who cares, especially if he is a minority”. Right Wingers lust for executions of minorities guilty or not. It makes their day.

  31. avatar Keystone says:

    Watch him get out of any possible criminal charges with a half hearted slap on the wrist.

    Now you just *know* if that was a regular citizen, and not a cop, his ass would be in county jail awaiting trial and he’d be wrecked financially for years to come from the trials and civil proceedings.

    1. avatar Varn Ford says:

      He should not even get a slap on the wrist. He was in immanent danger of succumbing to assault and battery. He had already been punched and tackled while apprehending the subject.

      1. avatar Jeff K says:

        A lot of little bastards should never have been born, don’t have parents who give a shit. Only grow up to be even more violent criminals. If they don’t make it out of the early teens, so what.

  32. avatar annon says:

    The video was removed from U/tube so I’ll be making this post based on what I have read; no doubt the details are incomplete. Let’s do some simple math:

    – Unfenced private property in the vicinity of a school to which minor aged teenagers travel to.
    -Trespassing by numerous teenagers onto the –unfenced private property in the vicinity of a school-
    – Owner (adult) of private property –annoyed about the trespass incident

    Do I have this correct thus far? Continuing …

    At what point ‘before’ the adult property owner presented the firearm, did this ‘adult’ call the local police department?
    Let us now factor in that the adult is a trained LEO. Said LEO has presented a firearm based on what threat level?

    1) Disparity of force? Who made contact first, teenager(s) or adult
    2) I see no mention of a weapon on the side of the trespasser(s)

    After you answer the above, what part of —it is replaceable or repairable (hopefully insured) property; and not an imminent threat of great bodily harm or death. How much of that did/does the ‘adult LEO’ not understand? Not sure anything more needs to be posted until after the up and coming court cases and appeals are done;both criminal and civil.

    1. avatar strych9 says:

      You missed the allegation that the kid threatened to shoot the officer.

      According to the cop that’s what this is about. Not simple trespass but someone threatening to shoot him. The kid denies it and says that he said he was going to “shoo” or “sue” the guy, I can’t really make that out. He then tells the cop that the cop is not a cop.

      If the statement made by the officer is indeed true this kid threatened deadly force against an officer in plain clothes thinking he’d get away with it because he didn’t believe the guy to be a LEO.

      1. avatar annonymous says:

        He is a supposed adult. Regardless if ‘another adult’; or one (1) or more teenager(s) made a (one) or multiple verbal/oral threat(s); there was no imminent threat to cause grave bodily injury or death. if there was, I doubt a trained LEO would have discharged their firearm and missed at the distance seen in the still photo’s that I reviewed.

        1. avatar strych9 says:

          The threat in and of itself is not a reason to draw a gun. It is however cause for a lawful arrest.

          The increasing threat level created by an agitated crowd that moved from talking trash to physical assault, combined with their sheer numbers, suggests to me that drawing was not inappropriate.

          I wasn’t there so I don’t know but I don’t see anything in this video that is overtly wrong on the part of the officer. Questions need to be answered but simply saying he was in the wrong is a serious overstatement at this time. The same would be true of blind support for his actions.

          I’m not willing to make a definitive judgement until there is more evidence presented. I’d suggest that everyone else take the same approach. Unless of course your 100% pro or anti cop then do whatever. Fair minded people wait for the full set of facts, or as full a set as is possible to obtain, before they decide to nail someone to a cross.

    2. avatar FlamencoD says:

      While the cop (off duty in plain clothes) was holding onto and somewhat grappling with the said “suspect” who appeared to be about 15 years old, another guy (est. 15 or 16 years old) got a running start and rammed into the cop knocking him over a hedge, then another guy (~16 y/o) came up and punched the cop after he got up, while simultaneously, another guy (~15-16 y/o) was actively flanking the cop in an aggressive manor. All of that happened in a matter of a few seconds. The cop then drew his gun (after 8 unsuccessful attempts to draw it). Yes, it took 9 attempts to draw his firearm; 6 or 7 of those was him trying to pull his shirt back over the gun in order to draw with his weak hand while holding the suspect with his right hand. I think the draw was legit, based on what I saw — teen guys (appearing 15-16 years old) were gathering around the cop aggressively. I firmly believe the shot was unintentional and was negligent, because the cop continued to wrestle with the guy he was holding onto instead of letting go and securing his person once he drew his firearm. And yes, the idiot “suspect” was trying to argue that he said he would “shooo the cop, not shoot him”.

  33. avatar Hannibal says:

    Legalities aside, an off duty cop should know better than anyone how dumb it is to get involved in this sort of stuff when it’s unnecessary.

    Off duty you probably don’t have:
    – A radio to immediately reach other police without fumbling with a phone
    – Non-lethal or less lethal weapons (pepper spray, taser, baton)
    – A uniform that allows people to recognize you as a police officer

    So if things go bad and you can’t make do with your hands you’re stuck with pulling a gun. Over some nonsense that could have been handled a dozen different ways (how about a “timed” sprinkler?)

    1. avatar Varn Ford says:

      You need to watch the video. He did not pull the gun until he was attacked. If he had not been attacked he would not have pulled the gun.

      Expect all off duty police to carry a firearm.

  34. avatar Paul says:

    Why doesn’t this sort of thing happen to everybody?

    Oh yeah, right. Basic social skills.

  35. avatar strych9 says:

    Amazing how many people here comment when they clearly didn’t watch the video.

    1. avatar annonymous says:

      … at this point, it is a matter of was there a justifiable reason for for a any human being to present a firearm in this situation; regardless of training, LEO or not.

      1. avatar Varn Ford says:

        Yes there was. He was being assaulted by at least two people. That’s why people carry guns (with CCW’s and off duty police).

        1. avatar annonymous says:

          — allow me to once again say, who made physical contact first? Verbal and/or oral threats alone (least of all, from unarmed, minor teenagers), does not in any way form an imminent threat of grave bodily harm or death.

          If this adults discharge of the weapon was in response to what he (the adult) perceived –as the teenagers actions/behavior being an imminent threat (described above), then I submit to this entire thread, how in the H3LL did he, a trained LEO, miss multiple threats at the distance seen in the photo’s, or was this a negligent discharge, during a confrontation between an adult/off-duty LEO and a few teenagers?

          Let me know how that works out in either criminal, civil or the Internet version of the peoples court.

      2. avatar Jason says:

        When he pulled the kid back on his property I think he sealed his fate. Dragging that kid all around his yard sealed his fate. We’ probably never know who touched who first just based on the video since it started mid beating. Any half ass lawyer could make a good case against the cop. As my cc instructor said, if some crack head is beating the hell out of your mint Chevelle call us. You can call your insurance later. Kids walk through my yard when they get off the bus, dogs crap in the yard, and believe it or not, life goes on. He got mad because someone picked an Easter Lilly.

  36. avatar GS650G says:

    Any one of us little people would be in jail 30 minutes after it happened. Cops would break in and scarf up all guns, ammo, and beer in the house. Goodbye job and hello lawyer.

  37. avatar Varn Ford says:

    Evidently, per news reports , these kids have been creating havoc in this neighborhood for some time now. They have been vandalizing property, creating noise and walking across peoples yards. Many residents have come forward saying that this situation is creating a level of stress in the neighborhood that is becoming intolerable.

    Calling the police does no good in situations like this because the kids are long gone once the police arrive.

    Evidently these kids come from poorer neighborhoods (apartments, ghettos and the like) and they are frustrated because people in this neighborhood live much better than them. Therefore they vandalize and destroy the property in these better neighborhoods. This is an old trick to get people to sell and move so that a demographic change can develop. The parents of these kids actually support this sort of behavior because it assists in the take over of such neighborhoods. Their parents are likely mostly impoverished immigrants who are having a difficult time living in the USA and they condone this behavior that is directed towards other established citizens.

    This also has racist overtones as there seemed to be no white kids in that pack of teenagers.

    Situations like this and the current atmosphere against police officers is the reason why police carry firearms and why they fire them. The police officer should be given an award by the city of Anaheim for standing up to this crowd of marauding crazed teens who have been terrorizing his neighborhood.

    Now the parents an adult supporters of these mentally deranged teens have come back to this man’s home and vandalized it. Evidently a group of people showed up in front of the police officers home and broke windows out graffiti his home. This is further proof of the horrible change in demographics and culture created by these people moving into USA neighborhoods, creating disturbances in hopes that the US Citizens would move away leaving homes for their kind to move into. Luckily 24 of these nut cases were arrested.

    The officer was following the law and protecting public safety, That off duty police office was correct in his actions. He was trying to hold the perpetrator until the police arrived. Two of the other kids then a tacked him, one with a punch (fist) and the other with a tackle. These two should be arrested for assault and battery. It’s good that someone videoed this altercation so the officer has proof of the assault. The officer had to pull his gun and fire it into the ground otherwise he could have been assaulted and badly beaten by this pack of teenagers. This is exactly what the gun was for, i.e., to scare away attackers or fire on them if ones life is threatened.

    1. avatar More Dead Soldiers says:

      “Evidently, per news reports , these kids have been creating havoc in this neighborhood for some time now”

      Standard bootlicker strategy: slander the victims. Randy Weaver was a Nazi, the adults at Waco were pedos, Walter Scott was a malevolent alimony dodger.

      Pro-tip: repeatedly using the word “evidently” does not make your conjectures true, or relevant.

    2. avatar annonymous says:

      Please review your own words …

      “Evidently, per news reports , these kids have been creating havoc in this neighborhood for some time now. They have been vandalizing property, creating noise and walking across peoples yards. Many residents have come forward saying that this situation is creating a level of stress in the neighborhood that is becoming intolerable.

      Calling the police does no good in situations like this because the kids are long gone once the police arrive.

      … within your own words above you are quoting/repeating others –stating this trespass behavior by the teenager(s)

      “has been taking place for some time now”.

      Hence, the police dept. could have been notified before things have escalated this far. Then you say “calling the police does no good …”

      Minor damage or theft along the exterior of the castle can be insured and repaired/replaced. Who made first physical contact? Who is the adult with supposedly more common-sense and experience?

  38. avatar Robert T Foy says:

    Black white or hispanic, their all hoodlums. Have no integrity. bring shame on their family name and are nothing more than “belligerent loud monkeys”. (BLM)

  39. avatar jwm says:

    Well, the usual #BLM cheerleader is here doing his usual job of slandering the honest property owner trying to protect his property.

    I guess once he gets the cops and the .gov disbanded we’re all going to buy each other cokes and teach each other to sing harmony.

    And there is a common thread on ttag comments. Private property rights. Which apparently don’t apply if the homeowner is a cop.

    There’s a short video that doesn’t show enough to make a rational call one way or the other. But it’s okay to form a lynch mob cause he’s a cop, right? It’s not like we have a vested interest in protecting the civil rights of our fellow citizens. Right?

  40. avatar SurfGW says:

    Irresponsible coward cop needs jail time so he can no longer own a gun to endanger anyone because he is clearly not responsible enough

  41. Off duty cop was out of line. There’s other ways to deal with teenage kids. I’m sure the gun was discharged by accident and nothing will happen to him. His excuse for unholstering his weapon will be because he was in fear of his safety. No charges will be filed on the cop or the kids.

    1. avatar More Dead Soldiers says:

      “I’m sure the gun was discharged by accident and nothing will happen to him”

      Government privilege sure is grand.

      1. avatar Eric Lawrence says:

        Independent of the officers actions I’m pretty sure two of the kids have met the legal definition of assault and the video seems to be damning proof. Will the prosecutor charge. Maybe…maybe not.

  42. avatar mtn_chef says:

    too bad this guy lives in california, in the rest of this country and the the south; he should have said get the fuck off my property and drawn the weapon with his strong hand and called the police with his left. His draw with off hand sucked. Period. He touched and chose to detain the kid because he is/was a cop. Every other person in this situation would have said get, and then shown the gun; he was out numbered bit probably had the cop superman syndrome. Their motive and intent was demonstrated. Brandishing would have displayed his intent. One shot, accidentally and the crowd dispersed like the punk ass bit*%#’s they are. Here in the south we got guns and manners… never would have got this far. And yo hablo espanol…

  43. avatar NJ-EMT says:

    The question I ask is whether a regular non-LEO homeowner would be justified in these circumstances.

    I would say that the average Joe homeowner would be arrested, charged, then ultimately cleared in court.

    It’s almost impossible to get an unbiased story in this situation. The teenagers will spin the story to protect their own, and the responding LEOs will spin the story to protect their own. The difference is that one story will hold more legal credibility than the other.

    My take? Arrest them all, charge them all, and let the jury decide. Or just let them all go and throw the book at them if it happens again. I would prefer the latter since it gives the State less power.

  44. avatar annonymous says:

    Who made the first physical contact? No comment has yet to answer or address that topic/concern.

    1. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

      Who made the first unjustifiable contact?
      FIFY.

  45. avatar Sprocket says:

    In any sane world the kids would have gotten a beat down from the homeowner followed by a beat down from their father. Being a punk and an asshole should have unpleasant consequences.

  46. avatar Bob says:

    California inner city youth with visions of entitlement and no boundaries, and California’s typically authoritarian law enforcement mixing it up. I do not need to watch the video to know what happens next.

  47. avatar Eric Lawrence says:

    1. This seems to start way off of his property.

    2. I never hear him announce he is a police officer.

    3. His draw sucks, but I think it’s because he is right handed and is holding the kid with his right so he has to draw from his appendix carry with his non dominant hand.

    4. Cockroaches scatter when they realize they don’t have a disparity of force on their side. It’s amazing what a single gun does to change 4-5 youths intent on continuing their assault into mere bystanders.

    5. I’m sure all these kids told the cops that they were merely on the way to their church to hand out food to the homeless when this guy grabbed the kid.

    6. Holding a gun in his non dominant hand while yanked no the kid over his hedge. Sympathetic response caused him to clench both hands. Very likely a negligent discharge.

  48. avatar annonymous says:

    First physical contact was made by whom?

  49. avatar BDub says:

    Hey look, finally a case where somebody should have called the cops and let them do their jobs, and its a cop, so he doesn’t. Now here we are.

  50. avatar Matt says:

    Everyone keeps saying they guy is a cop, which he is, but we didn’t know that until after. I couldn’t tell he was a copy by looking at him in the video. The kids crossing his lawn probably couldn’t tell either. Looking at it from that kid’s perspective, I’m just crossing the guys lawn and he’s coming over here claiming to be a cop with no obvious outward signs he is and dragging me all over creation, of course I’m going to resist and if I’m his buddy, I’m probably gonna try and help him get away.

    It looks like the cop escalated the situation unnecessarily and I really can’t come up with a good excuse to get hands on with a kid who is just crossing your lawn regardless of what he says. We are also all focused on what the kids said, I’m going to shoot/sue you, but what did the cop say to prompt that response? If the kid really did say I’m going to shoot you, wouldn’t the appropriate response have been back off and call for backup/the police or draw your firearm then not to start grappling with a potentially armed person if you didn’t really need to?

  51. avatar TX_Lawyer says:

    When I was a kid, when we were told not to go in someone’s yard, we didn’t.

    When you enter someone’s property after being told not to, you have just committed a crime. When you commit a crime, anyone who witnesses it can arrest you in most jurisdictions.

    The property owner should have initially used much more force on the kid to get him under control.

  52. avatar Common Sense says:

    When I bought my first house. I made sure it wasn’t on a corner, near a school or on a Main Street. Why? Because I don’t like traffic and dealing with these situations. And another thing, I went to a supermarket and was approached by a teen selling for a sport fundraiser. Because I didn’t buy anything the teen cursed me out. I didn’t take out a gun. I called the school and told them that a teen from the basketball team insulted me. Guess what, the team lost thier fundraising privileges.

  53. avatar JoeVK says:

    I worked with a guy several years ago who had a problem with kids cutting through his yard. He wouldn’t have cared so much, but they littered and were wearing an ugly path in the grass, and more than once he caught a few poking around his vehicles. He politely asked them to stop a few times, but that didn’t work, so he escalated to yelling at them, which also didn’t work. Finally, he parked his truck in the middle of the area they cut through, dropped the tailgate, and waited until just before they usually showed up. When the kids approached his yard, there he was, sitting on his tailgate with a shotgun by his side, cleaning a big shiny revolver. They went around his yard, staring at him. He just smiled and cleaned away. They never cut through his yard again.

  54. avatar annonymous says:

    So does that mean, ‘no one knows’ who or what side threw ‘the first punch’ or made ‘the first’ unwarranted/illegal physical contact?

    Does anyone have the answer to the above basic (simple) question?

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