Question of the Day: Got Ghost Gun?

They’re untraceable! They were used in two shooting sprees! There’s only one reason so-called ghost guns have anti-gunners’ and law enforcement’s knickers in a twist: confiscation. They can’t confiscate a gun they don’t know exists.

Which is why California now requires the registration of all home-built guns. Right? Because knowing where a gun came from “solves” crimes. Hell it prevents them! And bad guys can’t get unregistered guns, or file the serial numbers off of registered guns. [/sarc]

Got ghost gun? I don’t. I live in Texas. I don’t anticipate a gun grab. I know: nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition! But if I lived in a state where gun rights go to die — California, Maryland New York, New Jersey, Hawaii, etc. — for sure I’d be a ghost gunner. Would you? Are you?

comments

  1. avatar Defens says:

    It’s hard to say. Ghosts are so ethereal and all, my safe may be haunted or it may not be. I just don’t know.

    1. avatar Andrew Lias says:

      Schrodinger’s gun indeed.

      1. avatar Prudiikal says:

        This ^^^^^

      2. avatar Geoff PR says:

        Wasn’t it Chip Bennett who coined the term “Schrodinger’s gat”?

        1. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

          He used the term in here a couple of years ago, but it’s the title of a book going back at least four years. I bet Google would reveal even older references.

    2. avatar Anonymous says:

      What’s hilarious about this retarded law is that they still won’t know if the ghost gun exists or not. This law absolutely can’t be enforced, and responsible people looking to not get busted with gun laws (I.E. law abiding gun owners) will be the only ones that register. I looking to do harm with a home-made gun isn’t going to register it.

      1. Statist gonna state.

        Agorism is on the rise.

        Push comes to shove, I’ll put money on the one who knows there are no rules in a fight.

        BTW, ain’t this establishment based in Austin? Ain’t Cody Wilson? That would be a fire side I’d like to hear.

  2. avatar Cucamonga Jeff says:

    I think their are a bunch haunting my neighbor’s safe. They are the ghost of the guns lost in a tragic boating accident. ?

  3. avatar AlanInFL says:

    Defacing a serial number off of a firearm will make a gun turn into a ghost.

    1. avatar Nick says:

      And the owner an instant felon.

      Making a gun without a serial number is legal. Removing an existing one is a felony.

      1. avatar CalGunsMD says:

        It is not a felony to manufacture a firearm without a serial number – IF you are manufacturing for your own use.
        It IS a felony to remove, deface or obliterate an existing serial number.

    2. avatar Hannibal says:

      And if you think that you can ‘erase’ that serial number to the point where it can’t be recovered, you will have probably destroyed the gun in the process.

      Not only that but committed a felony in the meantime for no use. Good job!

      1. avatar Ebby123 says:

        Definitely not true.

        Engraved/machined serial number penetrate roughly .005″-.025″ into the metal.
        Laser engraved serial number penetrate .003-.015″ into the metal.

        This amount of material can easily be removed. If using crude hand tools it won’t be pretty, but it is very easy to do, and there is no way to recover it unless its printed in a secondary location you didn’t notice inside the gun (Ala Maryland marking requirement).

        1. avatar 16V says:

          But the vast majority of S/Ns are stamped, I can’t remember if it’s law or not, but regardless…

          The stamping process leaves residual stresses in the metal, which reside below where removing the physical numbers are printed. These can be viewed chemically and/or electromagnetically. Bottom line, you gotta remove a lot of metal to actually remove the S/N, and by then you may not have anything but a hole.

          Besides, on a fed level anyway, most guns have no paper trail if they were made/sold before 1968. Sure some companies serialized their guns and kept in house records, but the majority weren’t required to and therefore didn’t.

        2. avatar kenneth says:

          I am not interested in helping out any potential baddie, but once any stamping has been welded over and refaced, there are no “stresses” existing to be recovered, by whatever means.
          I doubt that will help any felons, since I don’t think they have ever heard of “welding”. Welding is work, and they became criminals to avoid that at all costs in the first place…

        3. avatar SWAMPDADDY says:

          TIG

        4. avatar 16V says:

          kenneth, Yes, if you grind the S/N off, then weld through the remainder, sure. Welding over the top of the stamped S/N will leave something to be found. Maybe if you’re one of those guys who can weld aluminum soda cans, then you can control your penetration to the almost other side of the stamping, turning it all into a puddle. The rest of the world? Not so much.

  4. avatar Slim W. says:

    Suppose they were illegal. Would they disappear? Illegality doesn’t seem to have stopped heroin, for example.

    These laws simply seek to criminalize non-criminals.

    1. avatar Joe R. says:

      Funny, talk has circled to drugs. CA ca-heads are more than willing to let bygones be . . . on welfare roles because they cannot hold a job because some smart-as-sh_t-a _ _ mf said legalize marijuana so that more people can’t hold down a decent job (yes I’m talking about you COLORADO).

      When people selling drugs make enough money legally to buy very expensive firearms (that those providing non-addictive services and products are not likewise capable of) there will be a firearm gap cured by civil war. You don’t have to believe me, you just have to understand what a target that’ll paint on the back of the people who attempted to take away guns for the regular folks.

      1. avatar Ebby123 says:

        They are adults, that is their choice to make – not just even if you disagree with it but especially if you disagree with it.

        We are a country based on freedom, not “Silly peon, the glorious State knows what’s best for you”.

  5. avatar Noishkel says:

    Oh as soon as I have the resources ALL my future guns will be Ghost Guns. The state doesn’t need that information. Nor do they have a right to it.

    I have no ill intend here what so ever. But people forget that ‘keep arms’ is a natural and constitutional right. It is not subject to scrutiny just because a bunch of Luddites are afraid of technology.

    1. avatar Sidney Collins says:

      Might want to reconsider this post.

      1. avatar Hannibal says:

        Why? You think the ATF is tracing every internet post mentioning this and putting them on a list to raid their houses? For something that is legal?

        Tinfoil off, live your life.

        1. avatar 16V says:

          ATF, no. But the NSA records the entirety of the interwebs, and I guarantee if the CIA/ATF/FBI or whomever wish to put a case on you, this blog post will find it’s way into your permanent record. And yeah, if some crazy people get in power and decide they want all the guns, you can bet your ass that they will be consulting lists created from the old yellow sheets, and blog/social media posts filtered to provide the most target-rich environment.

        2. avatar Scoutino says:

          Still, if I wanted a untraceable gun, what would be the point of trumpeting it all over the net?

    2. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      Noishkel,

      Unless you find and acquire all of your components in discrete face-to-face private transactions, in discrete locations, and pay cash, Fedzilla will know that you have firearms. They may not know the exact number but they will have a pretty good idea including which calibers you likely have.

      And how would Fedzilla know such details you ask? I guarantee you that Fedzilla is hoovering up all the traffic to/from gun blogs and websites. I can also guarantee you that the likes of YouTube and Google are in bed with Fedzilla and share log data of everything that you search and click. Finally, there can be no doubt whatsoever that banks and credit card companies share key transaction data with Fedzilla.

      So, if you search for anything gun related or pay for anything gun related with a credit card, Fedzilla almost certainly knows it as well.

      1. avatar California Richard says:

        Mine will be 1 of 400,000,000 that have to be tagged and confiscated…. my hope is that enough enforcers will be slaughtered by the time they get around to me that the powers that be will realize the folly of confiscation…. i don’t want civil war, or dead cops. I have a lot of cop friends and family and all them would walk as soon as partake in a hair brained confiscation act….. they’re here reading (and agreeing) with the comments, and they really don’t want to die for a stupid political agenda…. but then again, they aren’t federales.

        1. avatar Ebby123 says:

          ^^^This. They’d be searching for a needle.. in a SEA of millions of needles!

          Guns are an American way of life. I didn’t realize this until I moved south. Only in the north liberal enclaves is gun ownership any different than car ownership or TV ownership.

        2. avatar uncommon_sense says:

          California Richard,

          Ah hah!!! You realize the smart play! There are literally too many to confiscate now. Any such gesture would be futile. That alone illustrates just one facet of the Second Amendment at work in our (as in We the People’s) favor.

          Confiscation and subjugation would be much easier if there were only several hundred thousand firearms in the hands of 1% of the population. Instead, we have on the order of 400 million firearms in the hands of about half the nation. Fedzilla cannot overcome that even if it wanted to. And that is the entire point. Fedzilla only governs by consent of We the People. Push We the People too far and Fedzilla will discover the folly of that action.

        3. avatar Big Bill says:

          “This. They’d be searching for a needle.. in a SEA of millions of needles!”

          They use computers that search on keywords. And they are tireless.

        4. avatar Big Bill says:

          uncommon_sense:
          they will not be coming for your guns. They are too smart for that.
          What they are doing is this: making registration necessary. (Obviously, California is leading the way.) This is not so they know where to break down a door, but rather so that they can control where the gun goes after you die.
          It works like this; first, you get people to think that registering “bad” guns is needed. “Bullet button” guns must be registered by Jan.1, 2018. When that doesn’t stop crime, then other guns will need to be registered, until all guns need to be registered.
          After that, laws will be enacted that will say you can’t leave your guns to anyone when you die. Such people might be bad! So, you must get rid of them (out of state, to the state, or destroyed) before you die, or they all go to the state.
          How long before all guns (well, all “legal” guns) are gone? In the greater scheme of things, a few generations. That’s it. Less than a hundred years.
          If this isn’t bad enough, try to imagine what will be necessary when criminals still have their guns.

        5. avatar Button Gwinnett says:

          Big Bill, they don’t have enough warm bodies! There are more illegal “assault weapon” owners in CT that there are US Marines in the Department of the Navy.

      2. avatar Big Bill says:

        “Unless you find and acquire all of your components in discrete face-to-face private transactions, in discrete locations, and pay cash, Fedzilla will know that you have firearms. They may not know the exact number but they will have a pretty good idea including which calibers you likely have.”

        California does not want background checks on ammo purchases in order to know how many rounds you shoot, or have stored away.
        They want to know what calibers you have. If you buy ammo for a gun you don’t have registered, that’s something that will raise a big red flag.

  6. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

    I named her Casper…

    1. avatar tsbhoa.p.jr says:

      fatso, stinky and stretch. glad yours is friendly.

  7. avatar HandyDan says:

    If you bought an 80% receiver with a cedit card, debit card, or otherwise over the internet, it isn’t a ghost gun. If the government really wanted to, they would be able to track down every sale that has ever been made. Sorry, but the only way for it to be truly a ghost gun is to buy it for cash, face to face transaction where you haven’t given the other guy any information, no phone number, no email address (even a throwaway one), no name or any address associated with you, no license plate, ect. Essentially, the only way for it to truly be a ghost gun would be if you bought the receiver, jig, and all parts on that gun at a big anonymous gun show.

    1. avatar Tex300BLK says:

      Right, it’s actually (in theory at least) easier for them to track it down because 80% receivers aren’t firearms so they aren’t subject to the ban on registration/records keeping that actual firearms are subject to. They could go to your credit card company and get the info straight from them or go to the stores that sell them and strong arm them into handing over purchase records.

      Fact is, unless you buy everything (including ammo and accessories etc) with cash, they know what you have.

      It isn’t as easy as dumping a registry but connecting the dots isn’t exactly rocket science either.

    2. avatar Nick says:

      As the customers of Ares were made all too aware of after ATF barged in and took all their records.

    3. avatar Ebby123 says:

      The muscle required to pull this off would be ENORMOUS. There is no way they could do it quietly.

      1. avatar tsbhoa.p.jr says:

        they make great paperweight gifts. keep some, lose track of some. credit, checks or cash, you bought a lower! beat it, nerd.
        buying pun garts with poo pole is best ‘cuz they hate it. but they may banish you, so mind your correspondance content.

  8. avatar Jeff the Griz says:

    I wish I had a ghost gun. Designed in 1984 by Egon Spengler and Ray Stantz, the nuclear powered Proton Pack counters the negative energy of ghosts with a proton stream of positively charged ions.

    1. avatar Sidney Collins says:

      You are my hero.

    2. avatar VerendusAudeo says:

      Nice. The plans for a prop proton pack are actually available if you want one. I altered the plans I found so the pack can hold a mini-keg and dispense beer from the wand.

      1. avatar Benzo says:

        You are MY hero!

    3. avatar I1ULUZ says:

      Don’t cross the streams!!!!

    4. avatar What About Bob says:

      Brilliant.

      Right. That’s bad. Okay. All right. Important safety tip. Thanks, Egon.

  9. avatar Alex Waits says:

    Got ghost gun?
    Yep, but the damn thing keeps disappearing on me. : /

  10. avatar Rokurota says:

    “Becoming more popular?” “A huge problem for police?” Really?

    And Mark Serbu, your free promotion for your pistol kit isn’t worth the “credibility,” however slight, you gave this story.

  11. avatar Mike B in WI says:

    Regarding these so called “ghost guns,” Baltimore’s police Commissioner says “… the fact that we saw one concerns us greatly.” I wonder if they are as concerned about seeing criminals on the streets of their community.

    Also, it’s a Federal offense for a felon to possess a gun, whether it has a serial number or not.

    Of course, those without a serial number are twice as lethal as ones with a serial number I would hope I don’t need this but just in case for that last statement… /sarc

  12. avatar Swilson says:

    Maybe…

  13. avatar Goon100 says:

    In New Jersey if you have a 80% lower and the tools to make it into a 100% gun the state will charge you as an unlicensed manufacturer.

    1. avatar Lupinsea says:

      What about a 79% lower, then?

  14. avatar Rich K. says:

    Do a web search fir “Fosscad mega pack”. It’s a whole bunch of 3-d printable gun related stuff, including magazines and several different AR- type lowers. Pirate Bay is the best place to look (it was meant to bea a free download for freedom-loving folks like us, anyway, so it’s not like the feds can bust you for downloading it. Unless you live in Kangaroo country, that is…).

    1. avatar Mister Fister says:

      Except you need an uber nice 3d printer to build these to any level of accuracy – not to mention the shrinkage related to various types of plastics used.

      1. avatar Arc says:

        This right here. Unless you are going to spend several thousand on a 3D printer, it is an exercise in futility. Building an old school Chinese boomstick would be more productive. For the price of the printer, you could tool out a small shop and build anything you want.

  15. avatar Andrew Lias says:

    They’re not stopping this. It’s gonna get “worse” (well better IMO) because of new, easily accessible manufacturing techniques. But then again though, look at all the people on Youtube making guns. They weren’t stopped by facilities or lack of.

    And do I ghost? Hell yes. Some say it’s not the kind of thing you should advertise, but I do such because I do so as an advocate of doing it. You should do it if you haven’t yet, an AR-15 is a few hundred bucks in tools but well worth it and simple enough if you have some mechanical skill. Jigs certainly help make up if you don’t.

  16. avatar Timothy says:

    I ain’t afraid. I machined out an 80% lower and built it into a beautiful .300 blackout AR. As cheap as buying new with the benefits of hand selecting every part that goes into it. Cycles super and sub sonic 100% and that drop in trigger is sweet. I plan on doing a 1911 in 9mm too sometime. There’s something beautiful about a gun with no roll marks that you had a hand in creating. Shoots better than my other guns, even if it’s just my imagination, that’s worth it to me.

    Similarly, I find great pleasure in picking vegetables from my garden or cleaning a bird from a hunt for dinner. Tastes better, even if it’s just my imagination. Means more too

  17. avatar S.CROCK says:

    It’s easy to say yes you would if you don’t actually face the felony charges. I would own one if I didn’t have to risk facing a felony if I wanted to bring it to the range, or if I use it in a dgu my ass is done. So no, sadly I do not.

    1. avatar Timothy says:

      A person can manufacture a gun for their own use. There are no felony charges so long as you “aren’t in the business of manufacturing for profit” and so long as you don’t make something limited by the NFA. Even then you can still get licenses to build for profit and on NFA items, you just gotta go through the ATF and get their approval first. 100% legal

      1. avatar TCP says:

        Not with the new laws in Kommifornia Timmothy. All lowers must be serialized, even 80% ers that you build.

        1. avatar Me says:

          Serialized. Not registered…wink wink. That comes next session.

        2. avatar Mark N. says:

          Correct, with the caveat that “featureless” rifles are not required to be registered as “assault weapons.” Otherwise, an AR with a mag release or a bullet button is now an illegal assault weapon that brings a felony charge, whether you made it yourself or not. And all registered AWs must be serialized, which is easy enough for an aluminum lower but essentially impossible with a polymer lower since one must embed a 3 oz chunk of steel into the lower and engrave that.

    2. avatar TCP says:

      I would if I still lived in Kommiefornia, just like I owned and used several over 10 capacity magazines. Every range I went to there wasn’t anyone who bothered to look at such things. I suspect, unless you are doing something silly, no one will pay attention to if you have a serial number on a gun either.

      1. avatar Timothy says:

        Fortunately, I do not live in California. You have a point that some states require home manufactured guns to be registered and serial numbered. Thankfully, my state (and indeed most states) do not have those reqs. I plan on numbering my weapons for personal identification purposes. NMEMD1 will be on my AR. NMEMD2 for the 1911 I plan on building. Life is good =)

  18. avatar GuntotinDem says:

    Yet another toy Kids wont have that I loved.

    http://zombie7.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/22.jpg

  19. avatar bLoving says:

    All of my muzzleloaders! Serialized? Sure, but no 4473 form and when loaded with sabots, ballistically untraceable if I recover the sabot.
    That doesn’t really count, does it?

  20. avatar Geoff says:

    I live in South Carolina and I have two “Ghost Guns”, a 5.56 and a 300BLK, only because it was cheaper to build up a custom rifle than to buy one. I do have 2 other rifles that have serial numbers, only because I couldn’t build a Mosin or a Savage with no numbers.

  21. avatar JSW says:

    I dunno if I have a ghost gun or not, but I keep seeing this ‘thingy’ on nights with a full moon. It kind’a resembles something, may be a gun. I’ll see if I can get a piture (sic) of it for ya.

  22. avatar Ralph says:

    My Ghost Gun has a thing that goes up and can fire an entire thirty bullet clipazine in 1.5 seconds.

  23. avatar Anonymous says:

    California legislators hate legal gun owners. That is why the homemade registration requirement was put in place. If you are a legal gun owner in California – you need to disarm or leave. That was the message to gun owners.

    “Registration of all home-built guns” makes no sense for the hobbyist at all. If a criminal, intent to do harm with a gun, makes a home-built gun – Obviously, OBVIOUSLY, that person isn’t going to register it. The only way it makes sense for the hobbyist, is to eventually disarm them. No criminal, is going to register a home built firearm. It totally defeats the purpose of a “home built firearm” when used for criminal purposes. The only thing it affects are hobbyists, and people owning a firearm (such as one home-built) for self defensive purposes. This is because these two categories of people are going to keep the gun. Keep it – ready for hobbies or self defense. A criminal ready for criminal activities will just make the firearm when he needs it and certainly not register it. Since it is the criminal that determines when the attack happens rather than those defending themselves, he can easily circumvent this law by keeping the firearm not completed. Meanwhile the one requiring self defense (be them a ex-criminal or not) needs their firearm complete and ready. California majority legislators hate self defense and hate gun owners.

  24. avatar Charlie says:

    My father made an open bolt Mac-10 9mm using a frame flat and a parts kit. God alone knows why, because the Mac-10 is a piece of shit. I once owned an RPB Mac 10 (for about as long as it took to sell the stupid thing), and wouldn’t use one to shoot a rampaging possum if there was better equipment at hand (almost anything, up to and including a tire iron, or a baseball bat!).

    I found the dumb thing in my father’s effects after he passed. I cut the frame into about 18 pieces and put them various trash cans, and sold the parts kit on GB for a nice bit of cash. And that was that!

    I have no interest whatsoever in a so-called “Ghost Gun”.

    Charlie

  25. avatar Gruney says:

    Thank goodness for the dedicated agents of the (B)ATF(E) and RBF. They have to put ATF with POLICE below it on their jackets because nobody knows what the ATF is. And it’s not even their real name.

    Can anyone explain what actual good “tracing” the gun is? So they trace it to you. Are you going to say that you sold it to a criminal at a tidy profit (no you did not), or was it stolen? Stolen 100% of the time. How does this solve a crime? Or prevent a crime? Seriously. Flawed. Logic.

    1. avatar Charlie says:

      If I sell a firearm to an individual I vet them first, and I _*ALWAYS*_ record their drivers license number, address, etc, because it could come back to haunt me later. A good paper trail could lead to the perp, and away from you.

      Just saying.

      Charlie

      1. avatar Big Bill says:

        Charlie,
        How do you ‘vet’ an individual you sell a gun to?
        Unless you have ties to a LE agency, the only way I can think of is to observe him buy a gun from an FFL, and pass a NICS check.
        Simply knowing someone for years isn’t the same thing; he may be a prohibited person, without you knowing.
        And making the equivalent of a bill of sale isn’t infallible, either. Fake IDs abound.

  26. avatar Guardiano says:

    I’ll put it this way: I have three ARs and I don’t know why anyone would buy a serial numbered AR lower.

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