DeSantis Gunhide Question of the Day: Can You Keep Your Cool?

The above incident is incomplete. We only have the poster’s word for what happened before this encounter. One thing’s for sure: there are only a few circumstance (e.g., a kidnpapping) where chasing a criminal is a good idea. Bad guys have a lot more to lose than you do. And they’re practiced in the fine art of being a criminal, with all the violence that implies.

desantis-blue-logo-no-back-4-smallThe question here: can you keep your cool? I’m not just talking about putting yourself in the shoes of the South African whose child was [presumably] pepper-sprayed. I’m referring to the security guard who did the exact right thing by putting the car between himself and his pursuer. Do you trust yourself in a potentially violent encounter? If so, why? Previous experience?

Note: some commentators are saying that the guard shouldn’t have drawn his gun unless he was in imminent danger. I’m not so sure he wasn’t in imminent danger at the start (having been chased and rushed) and then not. At which point not shooting and using the car as a barricade made perfect sense. FWIW I wouldn’t have reholstered either, especially as the aggrieved Dad was shouting SHOOT ME!

comments

  1. avatar Rusty Chains says:

    Wow, so much fail! Where to begin – idiot was luck not to get shot! Sure call the cops and get his plate number and follow through getting the guy busted, but wow!

  2. avatar Vhyrus says:

    The fact that the security guard is running away from an unarmed man despite being armed lends credibility to the notion that he is in the wrong, since if he was justified in the aggression he would have no reason to retreat.

    1. avatar Hannibal says:

      Maybe he’s just a coward? Is that allowed?

      (also, keep in mind that many security companies don’t want their employees doing, well, anything, much less using a weapon)

      1. avatar Ralph says:

        “I’m not a security guard. I’m a security monitor.”

      2. avatar Vhyrus says:

        Armed cowards shoot sooner, not later.

    2. avatar Danilushka Ozera says:

      I believe the opposite.
      The story the man is yelling is supposedly the guard almost ran them over.
      But they are in a car because he then says: the guard sprayed pepper spray into the car?
      Then the guy is out of the car (where is this aggrieved daughter now?) and chasing the guard around and around the car?
      A normal person would call police and wait to let them help sort it out.
      The guy seems wacko to me.

      1. avatar Vhyrus says:

        I’m not sure if you have kids (I don’t) but if someone just sprayed you and your infant daughter in the face with pepper spray (which can actually kill a child that young), I highly doubt you would simply “…call police and wait to let them help sort it out.”

  3. avatar EJQ says:

    No, this is when I call the police, and my attorney. The owner of the Security company is responsible for outfitting security guard with automobile, pepper spray, and gun. Or, allow him to carry his own. I wouldn’t have approached him close enough to use pepper spray, might not have said anything about the parking lot situation. Just complained to management.

    1. avatar Andrew Lias says:

      Yeah, pretty much. I would have shown up at his office with the police to press charges. The security officer is probably licensed and I would have also made sure to contact the regulating body and file a complaint with them. The loss of a job, licensing and potential jail time are more damaging than chasing the guy around his vehicle.

    2. avatar Danilushka Ozera says:

      Exactly.
      This is why I believe the video-taper is blowing things out of proportion and was probably leaving his car and threatening the guard to get pepper sprayed.
      This is playing out just like a typical road rage incident.
      He’s lucky the guard didn’t shoot him but he appear to be unarmed.
      No one but a crazy idiot chases and armed man unarmed and keeps yelling at them.
      The guy is unhinged.

      1. avatar Anonymous says:

        Well yea. I could see someone getting unhinged if their two year old was pepper sprayed in the face.

  4. avatar Shire-man says:

    Well, I wouldn’t confront anyone like that.
    Having been confronted, yeah I keep my cool. There’s nothing more a screaming face hates than a smile and politeness.

  5. avatar ORCON says:

    This is why you don’t draw unless you are confronted with a threat serious enough to engage. Now you’re brandishing and running around like some ridiculous oaf because this guy called your bluff.

  6. avatar CJ says:

    Yeah but people are not as trigger happy over in other countries either so the mindset is diff

    1. avatar Geoff PR says:

      “Yeah but people are not as trigger happy over in other countries either…”

      CJ, that’s South Africa where it took place.

      They have a very healthy gun culture.

      Check out what they consider a good car alarm to be:

      1. avatar 16V says:

        SA? It’s as violent as you’d imagine. I remember reading a few years back about one of their stolen car squads – straight out of Mad Max.

        Shooting from moving vehicles, 100 MPH rolling gun battles, jumping into beds of stolen trucks at speed. you name it.

        Maybe I’ll try to find that and link it.

  7. avatar gargoil says:

    guys, THAT IS NOT A COP its a fucking security guard LOL

    1. avatar Vhyrus says:

      I must have missed it, cause I just reread the article and all of the above comments and yours is the only one that mentions cop.

  8. avatar uncommon_sense says:

    It is really hard to say what happened for sure.

    The security guard did not keep enough distance between himself and the father. Fail.

    The father had no brains at all trying to advance on an armed person. Fail.

    Was the security guard in the right to spray the dad with pepper spray before this video? Who knows? Maybe the dad moved fast and aggressively toward the guard for some slight and the guard thought it best to spray the guy. The fact that the father was rash enough to rush someone with an 18 month old child in his arms strongly suggests that he is an out-of-control hot-head and may very well have deserved a dose of pepper spray. The fact that the father rushed an armed person here — and continued to rush the armed person — supports that idea.

    As for the father’s rage about his 18 month old child getting a dose of pepper spray, what was the security guard supposed to do if the father really was intent on harming the guard? Let the father beat him because some spray might get on the child?

    1. avatar Anonymous says:

      Considering he sprayed and then drove off – I don’t know, maybe just drive off without spraying?

  9. avatar Ralph says:

    “Do you trust yourself in a potentially violent encounter?” Yes. There’s nobody I trust more.

    “If so, why? Previous experience?” Yes. Lots of it.

    1. avatar Geoff PR says:

      ““If so, why? Previous experience?” Yes. Lots of it.”

      Marriage doesn’t count, Ralph…

      *snicker*

      1. avatar jwm says:

        Da phuck it don’t. I looked down the barrel of my own .38 in the hands of my crazy ex wife before she was an ex.

        1. avatar Vhyrus says:

          You don’t completely understand the depths of homicidal rage until you’ve looked into the eyes of a woman coming at you with a large vodka bottle or kitchen knife raised over her head.

          Ask me how I know…

        2. avatar Jon in CO says:

          My wife and I, both in our late 20’s, have never had either of us on the other side of any weapon by either one of us. Y’all been meeting some crazies, or I just got lucky, who knows.

        3. avatar jwm says:

          Count your blessings, Jon. My second wife is a keeper, also. But I knew a woman that killed her man with a glass ash tray. Beat him to death with it. I’ve personally known 2 women, counting that ash tray, that killed their men. And one that ran hers down with a car. He lived, but if he’s still living today he’s still walking funny.

          Women ain’t no joke.

        4. avatar Geoff PR says:

          Jon, the ‘crazies’ can have some rather attractive traits, especially when you are young.

          You know what I mean…

          *wink*

        5. avatar 16V says:

          High performance people are generally not “normal”. Art. music, hard sciences, business, all filled with women (and men) who are really interesting, and often very “out there” by general community standards – even today’s.

          Perhaps it’s the curiosity, perhaps it’s daddy/mommy issues (or complete lack thereof), perhaps they’re just easily bored. I would wager there’s a seriously fair number of them here, in my experience, people with ‘unusual’ proclivities are generally gun people, sorta like gearheads are generally gun people.

          But yeah, crazy women. One relevant war story, had a bi-polar exhibitionist ex-GF (the girl silhouetted on trucker mudflaps everywhere) standing in front of her suburban house buck-nekkid about 9 pm with my pistol in her hand, standing with the porch light on and peering into the darkness. I had apparently taken a bit too long walking the dobie, and she was at that point in her cycle when she was incredibly worried that anything could happen to me. I wish there was a picture of that, if only because it wasn’t a staged shoot, it was just who she was.

  10. avatar tdiinva (now in Wisconsin} says:

    Notice the steering wheel is on the wrong side of the car. This means that the father was a fooking idiot because private security guards don’t get to wave a gun around in your face if you are not displaying a gun. Proportional force rules. Dad should have used his cellphone to snap a pic and then go the cops. He was acting like an irrational idiot.

    1. avatar CarlosT says:

      I’m not sure where you’re going with the comment about the steering wheel. How does that affect things?

      1. avatar tdiinva (Now in Wisconsin) says:

        It’s in the UK or Australia where you cannot use more force than the threat. Unless the angry dad was armed with a gun pulling a gun in a big no no.

        1. avatar MeRp says:

          Or South Africa… which is where it was… and things are a bit more fast and loose.

  11. avatar CarlosT says:

    On the dad’s part, get a license plate, vehicle number, or whatever, then go to the company and report the guy. The dad doesn’t come off as particularly stable, and copping a shoot-me attitude is stupid. He might meet someone who’ll grant his wish some day.

    As for the security guard, he sounds like a real winner, and I’m sure he will have some great conversations with his management if he hasn’t already. I have to say that drawing after a 15 minute chase with a road rager, who’s just jumped out of his car with an object in his hand doesn’t seem all that unreasonable. Dad-of-the-year is pretty lucky not to have taken a bullet right then, in fact.

  12. avatar michael says:

    U guys keep saying the dads crazy. Let ur 2 yr old kid get peppersprayed. When it comes to my children, i dont f▪▪k around! Id go ballistic too.

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Sounds like he went ballistic before that, actually pursued the guard with an infant in his arms, then goes pure batshit crazy when he was not allowed to assault without restriction. And *then*, he is stupid enough to put out this video showing how completely out-of-control he is, looks like an open and shut case of assault, to me, wonder how it did turn out.

  13. First off, this is in South Africa (Port Elizabeth/PE) so U.S. laws and legal concepts don’t apply there. Second, calling the police in South Africa is, well, they might show up they might not. This is why private security in SA is so popular – their response times are much better than SAPS. Also, the guard/company is from a rather low tier security company. Atlas is the security leader in PE, closely followed by ADT. Third, this video, the original and not the freebooted one linked here, is more than a year old. There is more to this story.

  14. avatar NO_name_needed says:

    10/5/2016 6:57:31 PM
    From the top; the videos caption:

    Father holding toddler almost hit, by Fidelity person driving a vehicle. Given the fathers hands were full with the child at that moment, then –if the father felt passionate enough to follow the supposed Fidelity vehicle –while/assuming the father is operating as a ‘reasonable and prudent’ person (USA), keep a safe distance; your child is in the car!!! Continue to follow while simultaneously dialing 911 or whatever it is they use in that region, take a picture of the plate and vehicle; change the order as needed.

    Now for my review of the animation part of the video:
    I am in the USA. Not sure of the videos jurisdiction and laws thereof but, this is what I see; in the videos animation:
    The person with the camera appears to be coming from the direction in front of another vehicle of which a man holding a gun has just exited.

    QUESTION-01: Did the distraught concerned father just leave his 18-month –to- 02-year(s) young child alone in the car wth the keys remaining in the ignition –to confront another stranger who the father states almost stuck them (father and child) with a motor vehicle?

    REALLY? I saw the father leave the keys in the ignition, then exit the vehicle; again, was the child currently in that vehicle?

    QUESTION-02: Once the fidelity recognized he was being cut-off or otherwise forcibly stopped, why is his window even open?

    QUESTION-03: Fidelity actually exited a structure (vehicle), which ‘does’ easily out-weigh the supposed distraught, concerned, seemingly unarmed father; is that what I witnessed in the video? Where is the security/tactic in that move?

    Once the father is out of the car, then deemed an approaching threat, secure ‘all’ of fidelitys’ windows and doors, put the vehicle in gear and put some distance between you and the possible threat; the vehicle is already running. Or did you remove the keys from the ignition just before you exited the vehicle and presented what appeared to be a firearm? Was this another security move/tactic?

    Use the vehicle, not the loaded gun! The Father, for whatever reason had his mind full.

    Conclusion (for me):
    I would like to know what they, both father and Mr. Fidelity, eat for breakfast. I then would delete said Item from my diet. This seems to be –road rage—in a parking lot, that went to/on the road. –Mr. Fidelity, stay in your vehicle and use it; instead of a loaded gun to first create distance. Plan ‘B’ still does not warrant introducing a unloaded/loaded gun –at that point-in-time–; however, plan ‘B’ may cause your insurance rates may rise. –The Father: Hire a certified and qualified baby-sitter/nanny. If you were level headed during the video, leave your child/children with another more qualified; you put your child seriously bad subsequent situation when you exited your vehicle and left your child in the vehicle with the keys remaining in the ignition.

    I drive and partially live on the road; you have no idea.

    I likely would not have posted, but given the occurrence of the six-year old in the SC school shooting, I struggled to hold back the tears; I failed. If for no other reason,: go home to the children and make sure the children get home in the same condition –if not better– than when you ‘all’ left.

    1. avatar NO_name_needed says:

      There was a typ-O or grammar error above. Instead of …

      “–The Father: Hire a certified and qualified baby-sitter/nanny. If you were level headed during the video, leave your child/children with another more qualified; you put your child seriously bad subsequent situation when you exited your vehicle and left your child in the vehicle with the keys remaining in the ignition.”

      It should have been …
      “–The Father: Hire a certified and qualified baby-sitter/nanny. If you were level headed during the video, leave your child/children with another more qualified; you put your child in a ‘seriously bad’ subsequent situation, when you exited your vehicle and left your child in the vehicle with the keys remaining in the ignition.”

      My apologies to all.

  15. avatar Kyle says:

    right, wrong, whatever….

    I’m not chasing a guy around his car screaming at him if he’s holding a gun.

    thats be crazy!

  16. avatar Anonymous says:

    Uh, this story seems whack, but in general, no, I don’t think I could keep my cool if my 2yr old was almost run over and then sprayed in the face with pepper spray.

  17. avatar Anonymous says:

    I’m referring to the security guard who did the exact right thing by putting the car between himself and his pursuer.

    You posted the video, you didn’t refute any of the activities of the story presented against the security guard. That means the security guard is actually the bad guy. That means the security guard should watch what he is doing and not almost run over children. It also means the security guard probably shouldn’t spray 2yr olds in the face with pepper spray. Given that he f*cked up and almost ran over a child and then sprayed him with pepper spray, it’s going to look a lot worse (in a courtroom) when he tries to prove he wasn’t the aggressor after shooting dad. So yes – he better not shoot the guy. Yes – he better put a vehicle between them.

    Spray pepper spray and run away because you were scolded? Absolutely ridiculous. The “exact right thing” to do here is to not perform low life pepper spray drive bys.

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