Springfield Armory Daily Digest: Rethinking the Gun Culture, Advancing Constitutional Carry and Westworld Guns Explained

Gary Younge

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The Story of 10 Young People Killed in a Day by Guns Should Make You Rethink American Gun Culture – “In America, ‘Every day, on average, seven children and teens are killed by guns; in 2013 it was 6.75 to be precise,’ writes Afro-British journalist Gary Younge in the introduction to his upcoming fifth book, Another Day in the Death of America: A Chronicle of Ten Short Lives. ‘Gun violence is the leading cause of death among black children under the age of 19 and the second-leading cause of death for all children of the same age group, after car accidents.’ Although not from America, Younge is careful to note that he spent 12 years living in the United States—from 2003 to 2015. Most importantly, Younge became a parent in the U.S. and, as such, struggled with trying to understand America’s gun culture—and its effect on the lives of children.” Yes, well Mr. Younge somehow fails to mention the number of people — between 136 and 1250 — people who defend themselves with firearms every day. Wonder why that is.

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The movement marches on: Utah lawmaker opens ‘constitutional carry’ bill – “It’s a bill to protect law-abiding citizens, according to Representative Lee Perry. ‘Just because they put a coat over the top of it or a shirt over the top of it, that shouldn’t make them a criminal,’ Perry said of those who carry firearms. Right now, gun owners need to have a permit if they want to carry a concealed weapon, something Representative Perry says many of his constituents resent.”

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As Californians Opposing Gun Restrictions note, “California gun laws are effecting businesses. This is part of the plan, regulate everyone out of business.”

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The clever way ‘Westworld’ originally explained how guns work in its theme park – “Thanks to the original 1973 ‘Westworld’ movie, on which the HBO series is based, we have a basic idea of how the immersive theme park is supposed to function. The biggest question you might be having is how guns work. In the opening scene, we watch as Teddy shoots and kills several men attacking Dolores’ home, and then confronts the Man in Black. But when Teddy moves to kill the Man in Black, the bullets seem to evaporate into thin air.”

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Why It Matters: Guns – “The right to bear arms is fundamental to the U.S., carved into the Constitution and seemingly embedded in the national DNA. But after a seemingly endless stretch of violence, Americans are confronting how far those rights extend, propelling gun issues to the forefront of this year’s elections. Do Americans have the right to have AR-style firearms, the long guns with a military look used in the past year in several mass shootings? Should they be able to buy magazines that hold 10 or more bullets? Can those on a terrorist watchlist, but not charged with a crime, be allowed to buy a gun? Should every gun buyer have to pass a background check?”

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You media cluelessness shocker of the day: NPR Reporter Has No Idea What ‘Come And Take It’ Means – “Sunday marked the 181st anniversary of the Battle of Gonzales, the first military engagement of the Texas Revolution, when Texian militiamen, responding to Mexican soldiers demanding the surrender of a small brass cannon, coined the now-famous battle cry, ‘Come and Take It!’ An NPR reporter decided to mark this anniversary with a story about how the phrase has been stolen by Second Amendment activists, ‘with no appreciation of its origins.’ Some local residents of modern-day Gonzales, we’re told, ‘think it’s been cheapened—and they want it back.'”

comments

  1. avatar rc says:

    “Gun violence is the leading cause of death among black children under the age of 19 and the second-leading cause of death for all children of the same age group”

    Well, if you said “Gangsta violence”, it would make sense…and be correct. But can’t talk about that because people might get the idea that criminals (who are aided and abetted by Dem pols) are involved in this.

    1. avatar Captain O says:

      We have a winner! (No more entries please).

    2. avatar David Z says:

      Your ignorance and racism is astounding. Can’t argue with you.

      1. avatar Jomo says:

        No, pal, you’re the ignorant and racist person. I’m black. I grew up in these communities, and I still visit them (relatives still there). It is a fact of life that gangs of young wannabe Al Capones make life hell in the inner city. It is what it is. White liberals and ‘sympathizers’ bleating on about the ‘racism’ and the ‘lack of opportunities’ are just perpetuating the problem. Liberal handouts have conditioned generations of people to like their poverty. You can’t eliminate this problem by ‘feelings’ or condemning people who tell the truth. Sorry, if you want to squeal racism, then you, sir, are just enabling the violence

        1. avatar Detroiter says:

          I think the comment your responding too was sarcasm- but yes, you are correct sir.

        2. avatar Cliff H says:

          The best sarcasm is carefully crafted to shock and/or surprise you, while still giving away the fact that it is not truly serious. The comment above had none of those qualities.

  2. avatar former water walker says:

    Well I watched the latest incarnation of Westworld. Confusing say the least. Fantastic production values but sadly lacking anything coherent. Lots of cool guns though…sorry Texans-you can’t have “come and take it” back!

    1. avatar Geoff PR says:

      If this ‘Westworld’ is anything like the 70’s version, it will make an irrefutable case that ‘smart guns’ aren’t so smart.

      Since nothing could go wrong, nothing could go wrong, nothing could go wrong…

      1. avatar 16V says:

        Geoff, Do check out the previews on YT or whatever. Despite having the wreckingball-half-ass-d1pshit-moron-clusterfvck-Lost-LCD-trash-producer known as JJ Abrams attached to it, it really looks genuinely good.

        1. avatar Geoff PR says:

          OK, it should be here in an hour.

          Was my observation on it being proof of fail on smart guns accurate?

        2. avatar 16V says:

          C’mon man. You know it was. ‘Smart’ guns are like any other ‘smart’ machine, eventually they will do something that’s really bad, because they ‘learned’, like we programmed them to.

      2. The technology has to be in the bullet, not the gun. That is why the bullets did not penetrate the human yet they were fired from the gun. Fantastic, I know but that’s Hollywood. It can’t be based on body temperature as in the movie version because the hookers have to have warm pussies. Also, a missed shot can come down a mile away and harm a human.
        Just a thought: can a woman visit West World and play the role of a saloon girl and have sex with all the robot men? Have to believe HBO thought of this.

    2. avatar Reef Blastbody says:

      >sorry Texans-you can’t have “come and take it” back!

      Can’t be sorry about losing something you never gave up.

    3. avatar Marco says:

      I will continue to watch it if it continues to bring scenes like the town shootout- orchestral paint it black, and Armistice the scarred lady platinum blonde retro terminator= win in my book.

      Millenial women FTW. Take THAT nymag!

  3. ” ‘Gun violence is the leading cause of death among black children under the age of 19″ Is a bold faced lie. Abortions kills more blacks in America then everything else combined, by far!

    1. avatar Cliff H says:

      ^^^THIS! Absolutely.

      (CNSNews.com) – In 2012, there were more black babies killed by abortion (31,328) in New York City than were born there (24,758), and the black children killed comprised 42.4% of the total number of abortions in the Big Apple, according to a report by the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene.

      http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/nyc-more-black-babies-killed-abortion-born

  4. avatar MouseGun says:

    They remade Westworld into a tv show on HBO? Who’s great idea was it to add tits, swears, and 10 hours of filler to a classic sci-fi flick?

    1. avatar MouseGun says:

      And the Federalist sucks, too. It’s Republican huff-po

    2. avatar James69 says:

      Love the original. I think it’s where James Camron got his “Terminator” idea. I have it on dvd and have watched it several times. I don’t have HBO at home but will check it out when I return to the ship.

      The military caliber shift is due to NATO and no other reason. NWO baby!

    3. avatar Geoff PR says:

      “Who’s great idea was it to add tits…”

      That would be the 1978 porn parody, ‘SexWorld’:

      http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0127862/

    4. avatar Cliff H says:

      I’m okay with the tits, as long as they’re not grotesquely massive, but excessive profanity (or obscenity) and useless filler to get the time slot filled can be annoying.

      1. They have all the filler they need since it plays like Groundhog Day. The main characters are robots so we see things from their perspective. They die, get repaired and are sent out there the next day with slight changes in the story. But…they remember.

    5. avatar Marco says:

      Can you seriously say the world is not a better place now that the gorgeous production values of HBO brought us this scene? (some spoilers)

  5. avatar Chris Morton says:

    I have a better Idea than “rethinking ‘gun culture'”.

    Let’s rethink THUG culture.

    It is overwhelmingly young Black CRIMINALS shooting young Black CRIMINALS.

    Gun control didn’t stop young Sicilian and Irish CRIMINALS from shooting each other.

    Destroying the criminal networks to which they belonged did… that and repealing prohibition.

    1. Maybe we should try it again.

    2. avatar FlaBoy says:

      “Stop prohibition”…I agree 100%. How do we make “thug culture” uncool? It’s the same old story as always…just follow the money. Where is the money coming from that is fueling “thug culture”? The failed “War On Drugs”. And it is a failure…heroin is cheaper and easier to get than it ever was. I’m not implying drug abuse is good…it’s not (which includes alcohol and nicotine). But we’ve taken what should be a medical problem and made it a legal problem. As with many misguided programs, the unintended consequences are the major problems. Beyond how it has effected out inner cities (black youths and “thug culture”), rural areas (have to guard your ammonia tanks, now), and law enforcement, why should gun owners be concerned? Because of the gun violence connection, as this article illustrates. Most people want simple solutions, regardless of the complexity of the situation. “Guns” means “violence” to many people (especially “city folk” who have never handled a gun before, who now outnumber the rest of us). The shrillness and shallowness of the media just amplifies the matter. Rather than consider and try to address the root cause of the problem, it’s much easier for politicians to satisfy the public by attacking something simple and visible, appealing to the “feel good” motivations of the mass of “dogooders” who don’t have a clue (and have never taken the time to think it through), even if they are accomplishing nothing of substance.

      1. avatar dan543 says:

        ok, I’ll play along…. Here’s a simple solution: attack the gangs themselves under the RICO act. Lock them up and take their stuff. This is what RICO was written for.

      2. avatar LarryinTX says:

        ” How do we make “thug culture” uncool?”

        Legalize drugs. All drugs. Any other pretend solution just jacks up prices a bit. When there is no money in the drug/thug culture, it will become uncool so fast your head will spin.

  6. avatar Ralph says:

    “The Story of 10 Young People Killed in a Day by Guns Should Make You Rethink American Gun Culture”

    Yes, because rethinking inner city black culture would be racist.

    1. avatar 16V says:

      God forbid you treat the cause and not the symptom…

  7. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

    ‘Gun violence is the leading cause of death among black children under the age of 19…’

    That’s funny. I could have sworn that would be forceps violence.

    1. avatar 16V says:

      Sooo, things would be better with a few more million welfare mouths to feed, not to mention the effects of them breeding, because by 13 or 14 the next generation would be.

      How would this be ‘good’ for civilization again?

      1. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

        My morality has no connection with what makes life ‘better’ for you, regardless of how many millions of innocent victims do or do not have to die to make it so.

        1. avatar 16V says:

          So more criminals, more murderers, more violent criminals is a ‘good’ thing in your morality?

        2. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

          As opposed to the wholesale slaughter of innocent people, yes. This is the problem with living in a free society, some of us will make bad decisions. If you don’t like it you’d probably be happier living in North Korea where they don’t have any issues with slaughtering innocent people in order to maintain their utopian society. I’m sure they’d love to take up your immigration request.

        3. avatar 16V says:

          So, once again, people who are so ill-equipped to raise a child that they are self-aware of that fact, make a choice to not have the child.

          Are you volunteering to raise, clothe, house, feed, educate, and fund that child for the rest of it’s life? Are you volunteering to take care of all of the millions of them?

          No? Then who are you to volunteer that burden to the taxpayers (not to mention the unwilling parents) to assuage your “morals”? The one more suited to North Korea and it’s ‘one true belief system’ is you old chap, not me.

        4. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

          ‘So, once again, people who are so ill-equipped to raise a child that they are self-aware of that fact, make a choice to not have the child.’

          Way to euphemism. If these people ‘chose’ to ‘not have children’ I would applaud their ‘choice’. But you and I both know that’s not what we’re talking about. You think you’re pretty clever laying down a false choice between condoning murder or taking financial responsibility for other people’s actions. But nobody is fooled. Everyone can see right through your argument as an obscene rationalization to propagate bad behavior. I will neither raise their children for them nor condone the murder of innocent people.

        5. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Then your “morality” is nonsense! What *does* it have to do with?

        6. avatar 16V says:

          You think you’re pretty clever laying out the false implication that abortion is inherently ‘murder’.

          I genuinely get your appreciation of life. Really. But you have to understand that other folks see life a bit differently. Sure, bad things happen, stupid mistakes are made. But saddling that person with a child as a result is not inherently a “good thing”. Look at the stats for single women raising children.

          I share the view of most Jews on this one, until it has ‘received the breath of life’ it is simply part of the mother’s body, and she is free to do with it as it makes sense for her life.

          Bottom line, don’t like drugs? Don’t take them . Don’t like abortion? Don’t have one.

          Leave the rest of us alone to what you see as our moral failings.

      2. avatar gs650g says:

        Eugenics is a poor solution to a behavior problem.

        1. avatar 16V says:

          When people make a choice for themselves, it’s not eugenics.

        2. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

          Yes it is.

        3. avatar 16V says:

          You can ‘define’ the moon to be made of Swiss cheese, or Bruce Jenner to be a “woman”. Neither is factually true.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics

      3. avatar Cliff H says:

        Bottom line – if abortions were not culturally accepted and essentially free and considered just another form of birth control you would see a significant shift in the societal patterns in the inner city that would probably reduce the pregnancy rate by as much as abortions reduce it now.

        Just speculation, and it would take a generation or two to come to fruition, but the murder of one million or so unborn babies every year is hardly the ideal means of reducing inner city crime. That is the ultimate “pre-crime” policy.

        1. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Boy, now, there is some seriously deluded wishful thinking if I ever heard it! What in the *WORLD* would make you believe that?

        2. avatar Gov. William J. Le Petomane says:

          There’s no need for speculation anyway since the narrative is demonstrably false. Crime soared in the decades following Roe v Wade. At the very least the easy access to abortion had no effect on crime and may have contributed to it’s increase.

  8. avatar DaveL says:

    I’m sorry, what does a bunch of gangsters in heavily gun controlled urban areas have to do with gun culture?

    I call this one the Second Central Lie of the gun control lobby, the idea that the NRA, your local skeet club, and Sundays spent target shooting with Dad are somehow responsible for, or even the same thing as, urban gang violence.

    The First Central Lie, in case you were wondering, is that violent crime is generally committed by otherwise law-abiding people because they happened to have a gun to hand in a moment of high stress, as opposed to career criminals who commit such acts as a way of life.

    1. avatar H says:

      Extremely well written and most succinct. Since you’re on a roll can you do the same treatment for spree/mass shooters/shootings please?

  9. avatar Gabe says:

    Where’s the story about spec ops caliber change?

    1. avatar Jeremy S. says:

      …guessing it’s RE the move from .45 to 9mm (GLOCK 19s) in some special forces groups…

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        Which was not addressed in this thread. Understandable cross-pollination.

  10. avatar Icabod says:

    Found another article on the “10 young people.” It leads with children ages 9 and 11. The rest of the “young people” are 16 (2), 17, 18 (4) and 19. As you can see, half are better termed “adults.”

    The two youngest get the most details. The rest, well one wasn’t “in a gang” but was shot by one. The rest, nothing. Could it be gangs? Robbery? There’s no details.

    It’s always nteresting how the gun control groups count. I’ve see everybody under 21 to called a “child.” Here he calls then “young people.” Honestly now, how many of us thought they’d be under 16?

    http://www.notey.com/blogs/children-killed-by-guns

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Some years back (dunno it’s changed) the government conveniently considered as “children” all persons who had not reached their *22nd* birthday, IOW including 21-year-olds.

  11. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

    ‘Some local residents of modern-day Gonzales, we’re told, ‘think it’s been cheapened—and they want it back.’

    King Leonidas could not be reached for comment.

    1. avatar CarlosT says:

      He couldn’t break away from his dinner party in hell.

      1. avatar gs650g says:

        Actually LOL on that one.

      2. avatar Scoutino says:

        Tartarus.

        1. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Secret code words? Magic?

  12. avatar Keystone says:

    “In America, ‘Every day, on average, seven children and teens are killed by guns”

    And those “children” are likely 17-19 years old, live in a no-go zone in a major metropolitan area, are members of a street gang, and (very likely) are African American.

    But let’s not let inconvenient facts get in the way of feelings, right?

  13. avatar CarlosT says:

    As many people have gotten at already, most of those “children” killed aren’t part of the gun culture. The gun culture is the culture that has reduced accidents to historic lows. It’s the culture that includes the least violent segment of society, concealed carriers.

    The gun culture is the solution, not the problem.

  14. avatar Mk10108 says:

    New rule…for failing to understand Americans have the right to lawfully protect themselves with guns….every Brit we kick out of the country, we let in 10 Peruvians, four French and a German.

  15. avatar Rusty Chains says:

    My guess is that NPR knew right where to go to find someone to object to our use of “Come and take it” all they had to do was call up the local Hillary campaign office, and any idiot there would spout whatever leftist BS was needed to support the piece they were doing. They didn’t even have to fly into fly over country, just pick up the phone.

  16. avatar NorincoJay says:

    Police in the US kill 2-3 people a day. No one knows for sure I guess. I’m not making a distinction between justifiable or not. Just as the Brit didn’t.

    The problems in our inner cities is true. Gun owner control is not the answer. The politicians don’t want to address the real problem and find a real solution. Then they would lose their uneducated voters.

    1. avatar Mk10108 says:

      Why is gang members killing each other governments problem? Poor black gang members are poor for a reason and it’s not for lack of “programs” citing the billions spent on education, special business tax zones, or midnight b ball. Truth is government can’t fix people with little initiative, lack of empathy for their neighbors and believing others hard work somehow belongs to them. Government cannot instill values nor fix folks murdering each other, the best it can do is manage the paperwork.

      1. avatar H says:

        To round out that thought read “White Trash” by Nancy Isenberg. It details the treatment of poor whites from the beginnings of the Republic to now. You’ll be surprised how the Founding Fathers described them.

      2. avatar Ing says:

        It might even be *because* of those very programs.

  17. avatar Maxi says:

    Hey NPR guy, greece has called.
    King Leonidas of Sparta wants his Molon Labe back!

  18. avatar Tom RKBA says:

    “Children under 19…”

    The only children here are aged 17 and lower. They are adults at 18 and they are making adult choices long before turning 18. William Aprill talks about “urban youths” (read: violent criminal actors, sociopaths and psychopaths) whose average age of committing their first felony is age 11.

  19. avatar Joe Nieters says:

    “‘Gun violence is the leading cause of death among black children under the age of 19…”

    — Gary Younge

    Inner-city poverty (due to generations of bad social welfare policy), and its solution…the war on drugs…is the leading cause of death among young blacks under the age of 19!

  20. avatar Wiregrass says:

    I did rethink it. Decided it was time to carry a gun.

  21. What if I told you that criminal homicide in America is at an all-time low since 1963?

  22. avatar Swilson says:

    Well it’s too bad that these folks feel like their flag has been misappropriated. But as a Southerner, we’ve been singing those same blues for awhile now. At least the Gonzales flag isn’t universally vilified and despised like another certain flag. That certain flag, much like guns, has magic powers which cause white people to commit violence against black people. All because it was misappropriated by some krazy, klueless klub.

    1. avatar former water walker says:

      Your favorite flag was misused when southern white people thought it was a great idea to own human beings-and go to war over it. And a whole bunch had no colored people to enslave. SOL buddy…

      1. avatar Swilson says:

        Never said it was my favorite; it is not by a long shot. What I was getting at was that a tiny minority of people have made the flag into a symbol of white supremacy, a notion not shared by most who display it. Similar to how, apparently a small minority of people don’t feel the Gonzales flag is a symbol against gov’t overreach, a notion not shared by most who display it.

      2. avatar LarryinTX says:

        Boy, is that full of crap. At least stay somewhere close to the facts. Slavery in America was more than a hundred years old in 1776, and managed to make it only another 75 years before that flag freed a nation of slaves, although that cost hundreds of thousands of *white* lives. Meanwhile, slavery existed in Africa for hundreds (maybe thousands) of years before America was even discovered (except by the Indian natives, who dealt with their own slaves long before the white man arrived), and still exists in Africa today! Like our ghettos, nobody seems to care about blacks enslaving blacks, so long as they don’t sell them to whites, as was done in our nation’s founding years.

        1. avatar Swilson says:

          Thanks LIT,

          I didn’t plan on getting into how meaning/symbolism can be twisted when it comes to pretty much any and every flag there is, in addition to other icons (think the holy cross). Look at how demonstrations now include desecrating Ol’ Glory due to historical injustices.

        2. avatar former water walker says:

          Blah blah blah boys. If honest Abe hadn’t freed the slaves you wonderfulrednecks would still own them. This is for you old Larry…

        3. avatar Swilson says:

          Man do you sound like you have a similar mentality as anti-gunners. You paint a whole group of people in wide strokes all b/c they like something that you don’t like. And the redneck comment is real original too, do you come up with your own material? Cause I’ve never heard of calling Southerners rednecks before…

          I have heard of anti-gunners calling the gun-owning segment rednecks though, because they are just so high and mighty. Of course they conveniently ignore facts that don’t suit them. Kind of like you do. I assume you and I both have the same favorite flag (USA). Under that flag we took a large swath of Mexico (b/c we could), committed genocide against Native-Americans, excluded all Chinese immigrants, in addition to all the injustices committed against black people before, during and after the Civil War. I don’t know if you’ve ever read books or not, or just chose to ignore all those facts. See how you can make the imagery of a flag completely one-sided?

          I don’t care what you think about the Confederate flag, I also don’t care to be bashed for liking it. Can I assume you bash it b/c of some sort of moral or intellectual superiority you feel towards those of us who appreciate the flag, and that makes you feel better? If so, that’s the same attitude of anti-gunners toward POTG.

          No where did I ever advocate slavery or “the South will rise again” garbage. You appear to have some sort of caricature stereotype in your head about us. This is stupid, 2 day old frickin’ thread.

  23. avatar Sian says:

    If gun culture was the problem, there’d be an epidemic of deaths in rural white counties.

    Hint: It’s not the gun culture. It’s the drug culture. It’s the gang culture. It’s inner city poverty. It’s progressive democrats who only pretend to care about poor black citizens when it’s time to get re-elected.

  24. avatar Omer Baker says:

    Nearly 2000 babies are killed by abortion everyday in the US. Who’s crying about them, Gary?

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Certainly not me. If their parents don’t want them, neither do I. Takes some real arrogance to seek control over other peoples reproductive decisions.

  25. avatar DaveL says:

    Younge is careful to note that he spent 12 years living in the United States

    Yes, but did he spend any time in America? Or did he spend it all in the slave states, absorbing their ignorance and prejudices about gun culture?

  26. avatar David Keith says:

    The airheads need to understand the violence has much less to do with American gun culture and a lot more to do with black gun culture. Why the hell hasn’t Obama gone into black neighborhoods and cleaned them up instead of threatening everyone’s second amendment rights? Why did the problem of black gun culture get worse when Obama became president? You don’t take everyone’s right to drive a car away from them if drunk drivers are causing most of the accidents.
    Do something about black gun culture or shut the hell up.

  27. avatar joe sixpack says:

    Guns don’t kill people, people do.

    I am so tired of this whole debate. If we apply the same rules to free speech, we would say that people whose voices are of a certain pitch should not speak because they are more prone to incite violence.

    So James Earl Jones, Shut the F%%k up. If you speak, you are more likely to incite someone to kill…

    Does this make sense?

    Its not the motive, its not not the thought, What the fuck did you do?

    If you used the .22 in your pocket to kill a terrorist or a felon committing a crime what its the problem?

    You solved the problem!

    No charge.

    If you used the tool in your pocket to do good, why is this a problem?

    If more people had the tool for good in their pockets, how would the world not be a better place?

    Ask a Liberal.

  28. avatar Sian says:

    The Westworld link didn’t explain it at all!

    They’re smartguns and they magically don’t shoot guests. And here’s a scene from the original where they detect body heat and just don’t shoot.

    1. avatar Marco says:

      The website on visiting westworld (HBO promotional creation) mentions something about proprietary weapons, and reduced velocities that make them NOT comparable to “real” bullets.

      Making the robots *easier* to injure, where a weak projectile would cause equivalent damage of a full-strength piece of ammo actually represents a much *better* way to simulate shooting people without things like full-power ricochets, shooting through targets, etc.

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