NRA-ILA: NJ Wants to Make Armor Piercing FN FiveseveN Ammo Illegaler

fnh-black-tip-ss190-armor-piercing-ammunition

The FN FiveseveN is a fine firearm, for what it is. As I pointed out in my review, non-law enforcement folks don’t have access to the FiveseveN’s higher-powered ammo, such as the  SS198LF cartridge. A bullet whose 2050 FPS velocity gives the feds body armor-piercing capabilities, while maintaining the round’s flat-shooting flight characteristics. Nor can average Americans purchase the powerful SS190AP (armor piercing) cartridge.

That’s by law, folks. But that’s not enough law for New Jersey’s Senate Law and Public Safety Committee. As this NRA-ILA press release points out:

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Washington, DC – On Monday, September 12 2016, the New Jersey Senate Law and Public Safety Committee is scheduled to consider S.152.

Sponsored by state Senator Fred H. Madden Jr., S.152 would criminalize the possession of the SS190AP (armor piercing) cartridge for the FN Five-Seven handgun. This ammunition is already banned under existing law.

S.152 makes a point to demonize the SS190AP but makes no mention that it is already against federal law to manufacture armor-piercing ammunition or import it for sale to the public.

The legislation also neglects to mention that armor-piercing ammunition is already banned under state law, and that the cartridge is not available to civilians.

Criminals do not abide by existing, new, or redundant gun laws [no matter how much we double down on the same laws]. Criminals will continue to break the law using whatever tool they wish to commit their crimes.

Instead of spending time on unnecessary and redundant legislation like S.152, anti-gun lawmakers should focus their efforts on stopping criminals from committing crimes.

About:
Established in 1975, the Institute for Legislative Action (ILA) is the “lobbying” arm of the National Rifle Association of America. ILA is responsible for preserving the right of all law-abiding individuals in the legislative, political, and legal arenas, to purchase, possess and use firearms for legitimate purposes as guaranteed by the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Visit: www.nra.org

comments

  1. avatar Mak says:

    While I don’t live in NJ, the idiocy of this law is actually a good thing as they aren’t taking another right away since said right is already taken away. Too bad they don’t do this more often.

  2. avatar Mike Betts says:

    It’s not about the redundancy of the law; its about Senator Fred H. Madden Jr. getting his name in the media.

    1. avatar neiowa says:

      I wonder if ole Fred is a Demtard marxist?

  3. This is horse sh** any bullet with enough velocity and spin can become AP ammo. You spin up a 45 ACP and send in downrange at lets say 5000 FPS, I am pretty sure it will go through.

    1. avatar Mike Betts says:

      If you’d care to send a .45 round downrange at 5000 fps from a handgun, be my guest. I’ll pass on that one.

      1. avatar El Duderino says:

        Maybe a 15gr aluminum sabot. Might shoot “a tad” low though.

      2. avatar Longhaired Redneck says:

        I’ll bring the video camera and the popcorn. This’ll be a hoot!

  4. avatar Cole says:

    So why is this ammo banned but more powerful rifle rounds aren’t? What’s so special about the special 5.7 ammo that makes it illegal but a .50 bmg illegal? these laws are so stupid.

    1. avatar Blake says:

      It’s capable of being fired from a handgun. Same reason you can’t get your hands on 5.56 AP (and why they tried to ban green tip ammo) or 7.62×39 AP rounds.

      Capable of piercing armor (rifle versus soft-armor), and armor-piercing are two very different things.

      1. avatar IdahoBoy says:

        Almost all 5.56 ammunition is armor piercing by nature, because it’s fast. Also, 5.56 ammunition specifically designed to be armor piercing is commonly available as M193 and M855. The ATF tried to ban M855, but there was a huge backlash.

        1. avatar Buffman says:

          yeah that’s the stupid part. Pretty much any rifle caliber exceeding 1600 fps has the ability to penetrate soft armor. So pretty much any AR can do it, even an AR pistol with a 7-8″ barrel. For federal law purposes, what it can and can’t penetrate don’t have a bearing on it’s legality. It’s solely based on the bullet being able to be used in a pistol, and it’s construction. Specifically it’s core material, OR it being an FMJ larger than .22 caliber, and having a jacket weight more than 25% it’s total weight (which is how I believe the ATF has classified SS190 AS AP since it has an aluminum core)

      2. avatar Guardiano says:

        Blake: “Same reason you can’t get your hands on 5.56 AP”

        Are you sure?

        https://www.freedommunitions.com/ammunition/rifle/5-56-nato/5-56-m-855-62-gr-ap-reman.html

      3. avatar mark s. says:

        Speed is the armor killer , if they knew it , they consider banning my sweet 22 magnum round but they never will , it’s a 22 . I would suggest all NJ residents go out and buy themselves a Ruger Single Six with a 9 inch or longer barrel and a 22 WMR cylinder and they are good to go . ………………………………… no don’t do it , I have trouble getting 22 mag. ammo already . ……….. never mind .

    2. avatar LarryinTX says:

      It’s all about another attempted end run around people with sense. Congress got deeply into a law to outlaw any ammo which would penetrate some level of armor, I am sure they were planning on showing that essentially any rifle ammo would, and thus would have outlawed all rifle ammo. But, they were caught, and the law as passed only applied to ammo which could be fired in a handgun, and somehow nobody figured out that any rifle could be cut down and claimed to be a handgun, even a .50 BMG (you don’t have to *shoot* it, it just has to exist), so we have fools trying to advance the theory that 5.56 is handgun ammo.

  5. avatar Ralph says:

    States often pass laws that duplicate Federal laws. The purpose isn’t to make something “illegaler,” or “legaller.” The purpose is to keep something illegal (or legal) even if Federal law changes, and also to permit state prosecution (or protection) if the Feds drop the ball.

    Which is why states like MA had AWBs even after the Federal AWB sunsetted.

    Which also is why states have their own State Constitution provisions supporting the RKBA. We don’t object to them because they are duplicative of the US 2A, do we?

    We have a federal system in the US. States are sovereign, too, and have the right, in fact the responsibility, to enact their own laws.

    1. avatar Cliff H says:

      And yet, if we argue (and we do) that laws banning the sale or strictly controlling the sale or taxing the sale of ammunition violate the Second Amendment, how can we not apply the same logic to laws that pick out certain types of ammo and make them illegal?

      Camel’s nose and all that – if the government can decide which ammo you can own and use in your firearm and specifically chooses to “permit” you to own ammo that is less lethal than the government agents use, is this not a direct threat to the purpose of a militia being capable of defeating [that] tyrannical government?

      Once again the government passes laws that protect itself at the expense of law-abiding citizens while doing nothing to deal with criminals. If they can smuggle in drugs and guns and people, what chance does the government have of stopping the smuggling of these bullet?

    2. avatar El Duderino says:

      Erm, ok. Like there is some risk that pistol caliber AP rounds will become legal again, ever.

  6. avatar MiniMe says:

    I see the stupid continues to be strong in the laughably named “garden” state.

  7. avatar Nanashi says:

    Remember to thank the NRA for not just supporting but writing the LEOPA that banned it in the first place.

  8. avatar Removed_californian says:

    Pretty sure double and triple banning über evil armor piercing boolits and things of the like just gives more grounds to fine. Sure the possession is already illegal, but possession of ss190, possession of AP ammo, and then possession of AP handgun ammo is 3x the illegal, 3x the fine.

  9. avatar ActionPhysicalMan says:

    Of course, no NJ criminal would be smart enough to buy 5.7 ammo from Elite Ammunition when they want to poke holes in a IIIA vest with a Five SeveN.

  10. avatar tiger says:

    Nj is so anal, ordinary hollowpoints are illegal.

    1. avatar sota says:

      *sigh* no, they’re not.
      you can buy, own, transport, and shoot hollow points in NJ.
      you cannot carry hollow points unless active and on duty NJ LEO, if your department issues them.

  11. avatar NorincoJay says:

    ss198LF is available for civilians to purchase.

    1. avatar Jon in CO says:

      Correct. Have some on order currently. And some in the pistol as we speak.

  12. avatar James69 says:

    Next week NJ plans on make murder illegal.

  13. avatar Dave says:

    I’m sure this law will make it so that any illegally held ammo will be turned in. I think the proposed penalty is Double Secret Probation, and no one wants that.

  14. avatar Adam says:

    Could it be about cash? Aren’t federal laws only applicable in federal cases in federal courts? Hypothetically, if individuals were prosecuted and given penalties, the feds would collect. However, if a state were to produce a similar law, the state could then choose to prosecute under state law and thus collect on what would otherwise be federal domain.

  15. avatar Adub says:

    I’m not sure what the FPS required to defeat armor would be for this caliber, but I bet a skilled reloader could do it.

    1. avatar ActionPhysicalMan says:

      Yes, lots do, including myself. In my case, I use rather hard 45gr bullets driven to an average of 1883 fps from 6″ barrel. I still get 14″ of clear ballistic gel penetration after passing through IIIA. I think, but have not tested it myself, the 28gr aluminum bullets begin to penetrate IIIA at 2200 fps or so. (The ss198lf fall short of this.) I don’t like the light bullets because they don’t penetrate gel deep or strait (with the exception of the Elite copper T6Bs).

      1. avatar Buffman says:

        2100 fps is usually the threshold for most level IIIA soft armor. SS198LF can easily hit that and most of the time will penetrate. The UHMWPE plates are what typically will stop all 5.7 rounds from the handgun except SS190, EA’s T6B, and other faster/harder rounds

        1. avatar ActionPhysicalMan says:

          It was your video that led me to believe the SS198LF usually did not penetrate from a pistol. Did I miss your video where they did? BTW – thanks for your videos, especially the armor penetration ones.

      2. avatar Buffman says:

        I had lumped a lot of tests together for AR500 Armor. Their rimelig IIIA can’t stop SS198, but it’s a bare min panel. I tested a CATI level IIIA (video not up yet) that it penetrated as well, but that was using the 5.4″ barrel.

        That’s the bad part about NIJ ratings. You can built a panel that exceeds the rating, but since it doesn’t meet the next highest rating, it remains at whatever rating it passed. Hence why a lot of plates can carry “special threat ratings”. I believe the AR500 Armor Hybrid is special threat rated to 1600 fps .44 Mag!

  16. avatar Hannibal says:

    How many people have been killed in NJ by these types of- hell, this caliber?

    I’m honestly wondering if there’s been one person.

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Of course not! We have a *LAW*, and it saved our citizens, every single one! And it saved all our police officers twice! Aren’t we wonderful? We shudder to think what would have happened without us!

  17. avatar ActionPhysicalMan says:

    I suspect that soft armor piercing handgun rounds are of limited utility. A terrorist or garden variety mass shooting psycho knows when they are going to need their armor so they can choose heavier less comfortable and more effective rifle plates. Steel plates are cheaper than soft armor too. I imagine you are going to need a rifle and or the skill and composure to shoot the unarmored bits if you run into a an armored opponent.

  18. avatar Tym O'Byrne says:

    They can change their laws all they want,

    the place will still smell like s…..

  19. avatar IdahoBoy says:

    FN voluntarily restricts sales of SS190 to military and law enforcement. However, as long as you do not own a FiveSeven, it’s just another rifle round. Lots of people outside military and law enforcement have purchased SS190 through third parties, with no legal repercussions.

  20. avatar Racer88 says:

    Yeah… SS198LF is very much available to the public.

  21. avatar Jason B says:

    I carry a Five seveN as my everyday carry. A couple of things about the article above.

    Obviously NJ is ridiculous. I lived under their regime for 8 years before I moved to FL 5 years ago. It was a nightmare.

    Not sure where the idea that SS198 is not available to the public comes from, but you can buy it all day long on dozens of websites, and it is perfectly legal for citizens to own.

    There are also far more interesting rounds in 5.7 available from boutique makers that not only eclipse the performance of SS198, but even out-perform SS190. Just truth tellin’ here.

    1. avatar jwtaylor says:

      “Not sure where the idea that SS198 is not available to the public comes from, ” – Just here to second this. I bought it by the pallet a couple of years ago.

      1. avatar Buffman says:

        about 5-6 yrs ago SS198 was not possible for us peasants to get. It slowly became available to us as SS192 sources dried up. Started at $60/box and is now about $30/box. FN restricts the sale, a dealer can order it to supply LE/MIL if they need more. SS190 on the other hand, the agency orders it through the dealer, and the dealer never touches it. Goes from FN to LE/MIL agency.

  22. avatar Aaron M. Walker says:

    Come on. We all know this just another power grab by various parts of our government run amok ! Another example of how government in most states, and their agencies longer have accountability to general public ,or fear of reprisal by the citizenry. Obviously, it a blatant tactical over-reach. To make sure US citizens can defeat the “NWO Stormtroopers ” armor. Should we all head into a nation of martial law. Should our 5th Column/EU-NWO, globalist puppet representatives collapse the USA economy , and it’s unparalleled Civil liberties. This has nothing to do with “control crime…” But, ammo with effective penetration capabilities. Next up, as usual. Will be the politcians and police clamoring to include certain types of arrows, and longarm hunting ammo designed to penetrate big game…We need to take back our government from all corners of the USA. Make it a capital crime for any Politicians*,(agent/agencies /police)*, to infringe upon any US Constitutional-Bill of Rights amendment!

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