DeSantis Gunhide Question of the Day: Best Gun for Personal, Property Defense During a Riot?

The rioting in Charlotte appears to be over. During the two nights of chaos, “protesters” assaulted innocent bystanders/residents. In the video above, a North Carolinian motorist brandishes a handgun out of his window to forestall attack. Not the smoothest move; his car is plenty capable of the [potentially lethal] force necessary to his escape. And brandishing in this situation was bound to inflame passions. Which it did. Meanwhile . . .

desantis-blue-logo-no-back-4-small“The explosion of racial violence in Charlotte, N.C. has led to a gun buying spree by locals worried about their safety,” washingtonexaminer.com reports. So a little advice for those concerned citizens would probably be appreciated. If you found yourself in the middle of a rioting mob hell-bent on destruction, what gun would you want to be carrying? If you were defending property from a looting mob, what firearm(s) would you choose to deploy?

comments

  1. avatar Swilson says:

    As with everything else in life, it depends. However it is hard to go wrong with a general purpose 12 ga. and an AR (or AK).

    1. avatar Cliff H says:

      Twelve gauge too much spread on the pattern. AK or AR too much penetration. These are weapons for the battlefield where everyone in front of you is fair game, not for an urban setting where you need to pick your targets (and know what’s behind them). Might be okay for defending your property from identified attackers so long as you are careful of collateral damage to innocents.

      Best weapon, in general, for protection from a mob attack? A 9mm double stack with hollow point ammo and lots of it. You want enough firepower to get the message across that continuing the attack is a BAD idea and you want ammo that will stop inside the guy you intended to shoot. You are not there to cause maximum casualties, you need a weapon that pauses the action just long enough for you to safely GTFO!

      No ammo wars, please! The .45 is fine gun and a fine caliber, but I don’t know of any other than a Thompson that hold more than @ 8 rounds. Compared the to 17 in my Ruger SR9c or some of the Glocks with 21 round mags, that 1911 is a poor option in a target rich environment, especially if you are also a target.

      1. avatar pwrserge says:

        I beg to differ. The best way to stop a human wave attack is to inflict maximum possible casualties. The best way to do that is a belt fed automatic weapon and stacking the scumbags like cordwood.

        1. avatar Cliff H says:

          As noted, if, as in combat, every single person in front of you is fair game as a target then belt fed, either full auto or semi, either 5.56 or 7.62 would be ideal. And over-penetration in that case is a feature, not a bug.

          But we’re not talking the zombie apocalypse here, just a mob of whacked-out citizens who need an attitude adjustment. Maximum body count does not seem the ideal goal in this scenario.

        2. avatar pwrserge says:

          The way I see it, once we crossed the line into “angry mob charging me” territory, over penetration IS a feature, not a bug.

        3. avatar Hank says:

          The old M193 round does a pretty good job of shattering at close range, causing some pretty bad wounds and avoiding over penetration. Or soft points could be used.

        4. avatar Ebby123 says:

          Thank you Pswerge for that rational, mature, and emotionally balanced response.

          I wish I could say I expect better from adult POTG, but then this is you we’re talking about.

        5. avatar Kevin says:

          A-10 Warthog

        6. avatar Adub says:

          I think claymores were invented to stop human wave attacks. Maybe I should ring my house with them.

        7. avatar Swilson says:

          I think we’re all getting a little convoluted here regarding situation. If you are away from your property and trying to get home, that’s a different firearm vs. when your home is in the middle of a riot and you are trying to defend hearth and home from being pillaged and you and your family hurt/killed.

          Defending your home and family from looters and rioters, I gotta go with Pwrserge’s school of thought: we’re not talking about provoking a mob and unjustifiably shooting into them. We’re talking about people coming in numbers to rip your home apart and hurt you and yours.

      2. avatar Swilson says:

        Good points and I probably should have specified more in my response. I was coming at it from the perspective that I am defending my home/property from a mob the size of the ones seen in the riots in Charlotte and elsewhere. Basically, I am at home and do not have anywhere to go.

        Obviously if I am out and about, that is a different story. My EDC is the G19.

      3. avatar Hank says:

        Not trying to caliber war you, but there’s allot of .45s that hold more than 8 rounds. XD, FNX, Glock 21, even a double stack 1911 that I think still exists.

        1. avatar Cliff H says:

          I’m not opposed to .45, if that’s what floats (or got lost in) your boat, but I had my fill of .45 in the Army. Based on that alone I would have to think that for the average person a double stack .45 would be a hell of an anchor to be lugging around all the time, especially with a couple of mags for reloads. Just sayin’.

          Whether or not that would be an effective mob assault deterrent is another question entirely.

      4. avatar Art out West says:

        Not here to start a caliber war either. I think 9/40/.45 are all acceptable autoloading handgun calibers. I just wanted to point out that there are several higher capacity double stack .45acp options out there.

        The Glock 21 carries 13+1 (and you can get 25 round extended magazines for it)
        The XD45 and M&P45 also have higher capacities. 1911’s aren’t the only options for .45. Heck, there are even higher capacity double stack 1911’s.

        Also, answering the original question: “If you found yourself in the middle of a rioting mob hell-bent on destruction, what gun would you want to be carrying?”

        AR/AK/Tavor
        12 gauge would be fine also

        Note the phrase “hell-bent on destruction”. I would want a serious weapon, not a pistol.

        What would a single police officer pull out if he was being charge by a huge mob of enraged rioters? I think he would pull out his AR, or his shotgun (if he didn’t have an AR), not his Glock 22.

        1. avatar Adub says:

          Your caliber war comment included the most popular calibers but left out the mighty 10mm. Of course, I know it’s a slippery slope from that to people whining about the .460 Rowland, but that’s a bridge too far.

        2. avatar LarryinTX says:

          With a large number of offenders, I’m afraid I can’t go with the 12-gauge. It does not hold enough ammo. I also would remove any silencer I might otherwise have attached. I suspect, in fact, I would end up with a full sized 9mm, because even more than killing a bunch of people, I want everybody to recognize that a gun is going off over, and over, and over, and over … Then when they notice the sprays of blood all over them, maybe they’ll reconsider their plans for the rest of the day. With a 12-gauge, you’d be out of ammo too soon, with a silencer you may have to actually kill all of them, and most of us don’t carry that much ammo.

      5. avatar Truth says:

        “The .45 is fine gun and a fine caliber, but I don’t know of any other than a Thompson that hold more than @ 8 rounds. ”

        Are you under the impression that the only .45 out there is a 1911? Because even a subcompact Glock 30 holds 11 rounds of .45 ACP! 10 in the mag, one in the chamber, that’s 11 rounds. Carry a spare Glock 21 magazine and that’s 13 rounds, or an extended mag gets you 17 rounds, or a Kriss extended mag gives you about 30 rounds of .45 ACP.

        1. avatar Cliff H says:

          Sorry, .45 is not my thing. Didn’t mean to imply there were no larger mag caps, just that I, not being a fan, was not aware of them.

          On the other hand, how much does that much ammo weigh? I’m pretty much convinced that in this scenario it would be the maximum number of rounds going downrange that makes the difference, not the size of those rounds. Assuming people in the mob taking hits, whether or not they were incapacitating or life-threatening, I tend to think that 30 or 40 rounds of .22LR would be more effective than 10 of .45 if your main intent is simply to stop or re-direct the assault.

          Getting shot sucks. Seeing the guy next to you get shot, even with a little bullet, sucks too and would probably help focus your mind on the fact that continuing in your present course of action might be a poor life decision.

          We’re talking about a mob of irate citizens here, not battle-hardened troops. Blood and lots of bang-bang (or pew-pew-pew) is very likely not the response the were looking for when they joined the parade. Quantity is, in my opinion, better than quality in this case.

          Oh crap, now I’ve started the .22lr vs .45 ACP caliber wars! I’ll stop now.

        2. avatar Danilushka Ozera says:

          A double-stack .45 can’t be concealed and I live in Comifornia where open carry is outlawed.
          Single stack 9mm or .357 SIG (I have both: a Sig P938 and Sig P239) with spare mags for carry and a 9mm AR for home defense with lot’s of spare mags.

        3. avatar Hannibal says:

          “…can’t be conceled…”

          *citation needed (I conceal one all the time)

      6. avatar Sian says:

        Federal flite control #1 Buck. Patterns tight as hell, and sadly in the current climate defending yourself with an Evil Black Rifle in a riot is probably causing more problems than it solves.

        And staring down the end of a .728″ diameter hole can cause a lot of rioters to reconsider their direction in life.

      7. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

        The pellet spread on buck shot is going to be roughly 3/4 to 9/10 of an inch per yard from muzzle to target. The average adult size is about 18″ from shoulder to shoulder. Unless you intend to fire on people from distances greater than 10 yards or so, which you shouldn’t, them spread really isn’t going to be a problem, as lonh as you aim properly. If you don’t aim properly, then that’s its own problem regardless what firearm you’re using.

        If you’re that concerned about hitting innocents….during a riot…..then just get out of there and don’t fire into the crowd at all. Alternately, you could forego buck shot and use a heavier bird shot load, say 7 1/2. You’ll get a little more spread, but not streetsweeper wide, and it’s less likely to be fatal.

        1. avatar Merlin says:

          #4 buckshot would do the trick every bit as well as 00, but with less penetration. Get buffered version and you’re good to go.

        2. avatar Toby Knight-Meigs says:

          By the mere act of pointing & firing said shotgun at a perpetrator you are engaging in lethal force & will be judged against that standard in a court of law. You’re going to have a real hard time making the case to the jury that because you used birdshot against the perp that you were engaging in a kindler & gentler act. The fact that you’ve gotten to the point of using lethal force means that you’ve exhausted all other options of resolving the conflict. Also, using birdshot may get you killed. I dunno about you, but that’s a non-starter for me.

      8. avatar Red in CO says:

        You don’t know of any .45 handguns that hold more than 8 rounds? Double stack .45’s have been around for decades. Hell, the Glock 21 holds 13 rounds. That being said, I do agree with your sentiment.

      9. avatar amanofdragons says:

        Fnx 45. 15 plus 1 of 45. Most other polymer guns hold 10 to 12. They’ve been out for a while. The 1911 isn’t the only gun in 45 any more.

      10. avatar Winterborne says:

        FNP/FNX 45. 15 round magazines. DA/SA and capable of being carried cocked and locked.

        An M249 with a 250 round assault pack would work, too.

      11. avatar Snake Plisskin says:

        “A 9mm double stack with hollow point ammo and lots of it…”

        I’m with you on that. A G17 with an extended magazine (MagPul, ETS, etc…) and good HP +P should work just fine.

      12. avatar John L. says:

        Higher capacity .45 ACP pistols, just off the top of my head:
        EAA Witness, 10 rounds
        Springfield XD or XDm, 13 rounds
        FNX, 15 rounds.

        But .45 ammo is heavy.

        If you don’t need to conceal, and are concerned that you’ll need lots of ammo, a rifle that uses standard 30- or 40-round magazines is probably better. Use good hunting ammo if you want to avoid over penetration.

        But, honestly, if a mob is rushing you on your way to the range, would you seriously not use the ball ammo you had loaded before heading out?

      13. avatar Johnc says:

        Your Ruger will jamb up. Choose s quality 9mm

        1. avatar junkman says:

          You obviously do not know guns–a Ruger is one gun that has the LEAST likely hood of a malfunction–I see with my own eyes Glocks & everything else malfunction–myself & most of my neighbors all have our own ranges & will go to one for a group shoot–my Rugers are the ONLY ones not to malfunction

      14. avatar Rod Arnold says:

        Hey Cliff

        Para Ordnance offers the 1911 with a double stack mag. I believe it holds 15 plus one in the chamber!!

      15. avatar Lcsw says:

        Pistol caliber carbine imo. My sub2k gen 2 paired with my glock 22. Lower risk of over penetration compared to ars or aks plus slightly better ballistics and better accuracy than the hand gun.

      16. avatar Jay Williams says:

        HK USP45 — 12+1
        Para Ordnance P14 — 14+1
        FN FNX 45 — 15+1

    2. avatar Joel says:

      i currently keep my 12 ga and 86 rounds of buck/slug in my truck. Plus a pistol with extra magazine. My mav 88 makes the most sense as a truck gun for me, because it’s one of the cheapest guns I own. While I REALLY don’t want to arm a criminal that breaks into my truck, I’d rather lose a $175 gun than a $400-$800 gun.

      For defending people and property against a riot, a 12ga isn’t the best option, but it certainly isn’t a bad one. (That kinda sums up the pump shotgun in general. Not the best at anything, but capable of almost everything)

  2. avatar Vhyrus says:

    One with lots of ammo.

    1. avatar pwrserge says:

      Honestly, that’s why I’m incensed about the “no legitimate use” for belt fed automatic weapons argument. If there’s a mob of BLM terrorists coming up my driveway, I’d strongly prefer to be nestled behind a nice M240G or a M249. The latter is a bit of a compromise between firepower and mobility. In a pinch, I’ll take a M38 with some 150 round drums.

      1. avatar Swilson says:

        As these riots demonstrate there is definitely “legit need” for belt fed full auto. With cops setting up a perimeter around a riot and giving it a wide berth, you’re on your own.

      2. avatar pwrserge says:

        Correction M27 IAR, not sure where M38 came from.

        1. avatar strych says:

          M27 if it’s a “Aw shit here they come” situation. 240G if you’ve had time to stack up sandbags, gas setting TBD based on the size of the group coming up the drive…

        2. avatar California Richard says:

          Bah! IAR is a glorified AR…… belt fed PWRSERGE! Dont back down to the light weights!!!

  3. avatar Joe R. says:

    Kel-Tec Sub2000 chambered in 40 S&W with PD rounds, and a stick or drum mag of ‘shot shell’ rounds http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/detail.aspx?loadNo=3740.

    1. avatar gordon baglaj says:

      I really like the Kel Tec Sub 2000 for a number of reasons. It folds up for easy transport, and shoots relatively accurately. However, I’d get mind chambered in 9MM so my Glock 17 – 30 rnd mags would be interchangeable. No fumbling for the right Mag in the middle of night time darkness. Just simple, In my opinion.

      1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

        If you already have a 9mm Glock of some variety then it makes perfect sense to purchase your SUB-2000 in 9mm for magazine compatibility. Otherwise, .40 S&W is the way to go: you get a heavier bullet, greater velocity, and nearly the same capacity.

        Remember, .40 S&W in light-for-caliber bullets are already on the heals of .357 Magnum ballistics. When you fire those same .40 S&W cartridges out of the 16 inch barrel of SUB-2000, you go way beyond even stout .357 Magnum ballistics coming out of a revolver with a 4 inch barrel.

  4. avatar A Brit in TX says:

    I probably would try to avoid dangling my arm out of the window while holding the pistol, it seems that it would be easy for it to be knocked out of your hand, or to drop it……..

    As to what gun would be best?

    In an ideal world, some sort of minigun……

    More realistically, a MSR (my preference is for an AR platform) would be great.

    Even more realistically, you’ll only have your carry pistol on you so I would say a double stack 9mm with a spare mag or two should be fine.

    1. avatar Danilushka Ozera says:

      I also think hanging the gun out the door is not a deterrent, but more clearly says” take a shot at me!”.
      Surprise, speed and violence of action; he forgot the “surprise” part and it could have cost him.

  5. avatar PeterK says:

    Something that sprays bullets.

    1. avatar Jazzdelaney says:

      With a shoulder thing that goes up

    2. avatar Cliff H says:

      I’ve never seen anything that specifically sprays bullets. Why are you spraying your bullets? And what are you spraying on them? Does this improve accuracy? I’d better check my Barnes catalogue.

      1. avatar pwrserge says:

        It’s called suppressing fire against an area target.

      2. avatar Cliff H says:

        Perhaps my attempt at humor was too subtle?

        1. avatar Danilushka Ozera says:

          Ask Dian Feinstein about the “street sweepers” she wants outlawed.
          Anti-gun California Democrats know all about “assault weapons” that “spray bullets” with the “Thing that goes up”. LOL.

      3. avatar LarryinTX says:

        I’m thinkin’ WD-40 would make everything easier.

        1. avatar jwm says:

          10 w 30. Put it in a pumper truck and coat the streets with it in the riot area. Then just sit back and watch the fun.

  6. avatar ActionPhysicalMan says:

    Don’t invest in property in neighborhoods where that is is likely. Get good insurance if you do. Don’t be there when the riot happens. Be somewhere else with whatever gun you want.

    1. avatar JR_in_NC says:

      You’ve missed the part of not only Charlotte but also Milwaukee where they’ve spilled into areas outside your stereotyped “scene of the riot.”

      Wednesday night in Charlotte, they were downtown in the area of the Omni, for crying out loud. Tuesday, they were blocking traffic on the Interstate…

      So…passerby and truckers engaged in lawful commerce that had NOTHING to do with the local ‘issues’ got caught up in it.

      And, the thugs are singing more and more about spilling their sh1t into the ‘suburbs.’

      You sound like you think avoiding this sort of thing can be planned…controlled.

      Newsflash: you may not be able to plan it. It might find you.

      Your argument is merely a variant on “no one needs an AR at the grocery store” the anti’s vomit when trying to make it sound like there are “safe” places and “not safe” places.

      Play the odds the best you can, sure; but trouble can find us…anywhere, anytime.

      1. avatar ActionPhysicalMan says:

        I posit that you can indeed avoid riots almost 100% of the time. It seems pretty obvious when and where they are likely to happen. I can’t think of any where they went from 0 to 60 in minutes and without well publicized precursors. I live just south of St. Paul MN. I always have the radio tuned to news, and when I hear of protests I also listen to the scanner. When there are BLM protests in an area, I intend to refuse to make the delivery, but so far the drug company that I deliver for has, as far as I can tell, not asked any driver to go near the protests (and so far they have been mostly just protests here). If protests start forming in or near my neighborhood (racially diverse and Somali heavy), I sure as shit won’t go outside except to leave the area. Truckers can do the same. I bet Reginald Denny wished that he hadn’t stayed the course of work that day (note that he has since become a boat mechanic in Lake Havasu). As for my argument being somewhere near ‘no one needs an AR at a grocery store’, I’d say it is more like if you are staging ammunition and preparing range cards on your store’s roof you are missing the better (IMO) opportunity to leave before you kill or are killed. I also do in fact go about armed with a semi-auto and 61 rounds of ammo normally and add a IIIA vest when I know I am going to a bad neighborhood or things are starting to seem otherwise less safe. I do keep a suppressed 10.5″ AR loaded with large subsonics in my bedroom.That all said, I understand why other people might wish to stay and defend their property and certainly wouldn’t want to see them prosecuted for doing what is well within their rights.

        1. avatar JR_in_NC says:

          “I posit that you can indeed avoid riots almost 100% of the time.”

          And, I clearly state that you are 100% wrong.

          I get that you think that.

          I’ve read multiple of accounts of people getting caught in situations like this week in Charlotte without knowing. Maybe you’d have a case to make for someone getting caught up in it on Wednesday, but not Tuesday.

          What you are asking is for people to be perfectly clairvoyant AND be able to plan every aspect of their lives to the nearest minute days in advance. That is simply not realistic.

        2. avatar ActionPhysicalMan says:

          I wish I could think of a way to determine the answer to this question: “How many people that have been caught up in a riot wouldn’t reasonably have been able to avoid it if they were paying attention to the news and not taking unnecessary chances.” Perhaps you have a way? I will concede that my second post implied it was 0 and that was wrong of me. I also fear that there is going to be a lot more civil unrest (not sure from what though) and wish that I was taking my own advice more fully and moving away from an urban area sooner.

  7. avatar DaveW says:

    It’s an individual preference but the best one is the one which you will carry because it is comfortable for you to shoot. In the car, a handgun because a shotgun or AR are difficult to use in a confined space. I am quite content with my .45 single stack. For home or business, I prefer the 12 ga shotgun with extended tube.

  8. avatar pwrserge says:

    I have a Mk18 SBR set up for just such a circumstance. I don’t expect to take any shots outside of 50 meters so the reduced muzzle energy is a non-issue. Combine that with a nice vest and battle belt and I can hold off a mob a from a solid defensive position quite handily.

    I’m thinking of switching to a more conventional 14.5″ M4 style upper, but the one I use for competition has a pencil barrel and might not be optimal if I have to put it to heavy use. That being said, the fact that the loadout is ~1.5 lbs lighter than my heavily built mk18 may be important.

  9. avatar John Boch says:

    The best weapon? Your brain.

    Avoid confrontations. De-escalate where possible.

    And if the circumstances justify the use of deadly force (can you articulate the elements that make it legally justifiable? If you can’t, you’re already on thin ice), use it effectively with whatever gun you are competent with.

    John

    1. avatar JR_in_NC says:

      One single individual will NOT ‘de-escalate’ a rioting mob.

      That’s a fantasy.

      I’ll leave this one here:

    2. avatar LarryinTX says:

      “Legally justifiable” is easy. If you even care about legal justification, it is not justified. When you’re so scared you’re pooping your pants, can’t even think, fire away.

  10. avatar Geoff PR says:

    Whatever gun I have the biggest pile of magazines for…

  11. avatar Ralph says:

    Y’know, it’s not called a Riot Gun for nothing.

    1. avatar pwrserge says:

      Yeah… I always question the wisdom of a severely rounds limited platform for target rich environment social work.

      1. avatar Andrew Lias says:

        Going solo is way different than working with a cohesive team. When you’ve got other people around you reloading is possible without getting mobbed. It also neglects the fact that they may have been used as a rubber bullet/tear gas deployment tool rather than with traditional shot in a lethal force scenario.

    2. avatar jwm says:

      Also in the shotguns favor. Ballistic evidence. Once the riot is over law will return. Danziger bridge ring a bell?

      Buckshot out of a smoothbore is hard to track. And if a 250 dollar mossberg has to meet a smelter, oh well.

      1. avatar Ebby123 says:

        ^^^THIS.

        Plus a shotgun allows controlled escalations.
        Start with verbal commands, then escalate to birdshot (non lethal beyond 3yds) impacting groups of people at once will get the feet pounding pavement for most.

        For those that want to continue to press the issue, buckshot and slugs depending on the distance at which the threats present themselves.

        Anyone can buy a shotgun – even in restrictive states they’re ubiquitous. This plus the lack of ballistics trace should minimize your risk of revenge attacks or vindictive prosecution after-the-fact. Just make sure you wear gloves whenever you’re handling the shells… a 12GA hull has a lot of surface area for collecting fingerprints.

  12. avatar Specialist38 says:

    If I had knowledge before- hand. I would carry a shotgun with buck and my fire team would have ARs, a Barrett, and a couple of grenades.

    If I dint have knowledge before hand, my LCR, SR9, and Winchester model 12 would have to do.

    Otherwise

  13. avatar scooter says:

    Pump 12… 5 in, 5 on the stock, 15 on the sling. Big numbers? Windham AR at the ready.

  14. avatar tdiinva (now in Wisconsin} says:

    We get postings like this with every bit of civil disorder or natural disaster. If you have a business you wish to defend in the effected area a twelve gauge semiauto with #8 in the chamber and #4 turkey shot in the tube. Generally, the first round that goes off will induce the mob to go elsewhere. If you live in the area get off the street and stay home with what ever weapon you have. This is an urban area so forget about that AK or AR. If you don’t live in the neighborhood stay home and watch TV.

    1. avatar Warren says:

      “Generally, the first round that goes off will induce the mob to go elsewhere.”

      Based on what personal experience? I have no intent to arm myself in such a way that I bank on the first shot discouraging anyone. If they see I’m holding a gun and are not already retreating, I’m not sure that shooting is going to make a difference.

      If they’re approaching my property, my personal choice would be my AR pistol and as many mags as I can carry on me, as well as my 9mm on my hip with as many mags as I have that I can stuff in my pockets. For those in my family who are comfortable being armed, whatever they’re comfortable using. If I’m out and about, I’ll use my car. Otherwise, avoid and evade.

      1. avatar Cliff H says:

        “Generally, the first mag dump will induce the mob to go elsewhere. Failing that you were already screwed to begin with.”

        That better?

      2. avatar tdiinva (Now in Wisconsin) says:

        Based on Mob psychology. They are coming for your stuff, not you. Looters aren’t zombies if your property is too tough to take they will take someone’s that is easier, And the #4 in the tube will be lethal enough if they choose not to stop.

    2. avatar Hank says:

      I’ve never been too fond of the whole “use bird shot” for self defense line of thought. Bird shot is for the birds. I’ve plenty of experience bird hunting and it just is not a very effective round, even small birds can shake it off at distance. I know I know, at close range it’s different, but all those ballistics gel tests on YouTube don’t show how it won’t go through bone at more than a few feet, and always fail to layer some clothing on the jel.

      1. avatar tdiinva (Now in Wisconsin) says:

        The birdshot is to discourage, if in fails then you got lethal stuff to follow up. #4 is better than buck when facing a mob at close range. You won’t get enough spread to take out more than one attacker at a time. Rapidly filling the space with #4 from a semiauto is like using cannister. A lot of people are going down at once.

      2. avatar jwm says:

        With birdshot you can explode the flaming molotov cocktail in the hands of the arsonist or in the air above the mob before it hits your house.

        1. avatar Clear Thru says:

          Nice.
          I like that thought.

          Kinda like a Riot Sports edge to it.

          “PULL…”

          BTW- my pref would be starting with the JM Pro 930 (8+1) w/ #4,
          then switch to the AK47 pistol w/ extended x2 taped together mags
          hanging on the sling around my body. Serious thumping and noise.

  15. avatar tsbhoa.p.jr says:

    a scoped rifle from the highest rooftop.

    1. avatar Clear Thru says:

      Rooftop Koreans
      https://static1.fjcdn.com/comments/That+or+hire+roof+koreans+_df404e22fee108fd556fc76be18f0cf2.jpg

      That there is riot proven, no doubts that it does work.

  16. avatar Anon in CT says:

    Whatever Nick Fury had in his custom Yukon in Captain America: The Winter Soldier.

    https://youtu.be/Ht5APXTFgOE?t=1m25s

    [youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht5APXTFgOE&w=560&h=315%5D

  17. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

    An AR pistol hanging on my neck..
    Nice and loud.

  18. avatar Aaron says:

    a phased plasma rifle in the 40-watt range will do.

    riots break up quicly when rioters get ventilated.

    in the real world, any AR with a few Surefire 60 rnd mags and a 30 round pmag for backup, with any reliable handgun by your side, will do

  19. avatar =BCE56= says:

    AA 12, stoked w/ #4 buck should be fairly effective.
    Or maybe a police style 870. (They don’t call ’em riot guns for nothing…)
    I’d also want a trusty sidearm and some spare mags.

    Better yet, just stay home.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihE36phavz8
    Inspector Kemp nails it!

  20. avatar Bob says:

    Crowd control? Nothing says “I’m serious about being left alone” than a flamethrower. No one wants to burn.

    On a more serious note, 9mm SBR AR pattern + suppressor with coupled 30rd glock mags, and some good defensive hollow point ammo.

    1. avatar Hank says:

      There are some legal flame throwers that would pretty effective. And your 100% right, the phycological impact of spraying fire is undeniable. I don’t care how tough someone thinks they are, napalm is a shitty way to go.

      1. avatar Kendahl says:

        You can make a flame thrower out of a gasoline filled garden sprayer with a charcoal grill lighter wired to the spray wand. Just be sure you don’t burn down your own property.

  21. avatar former water walker says:

    Well I’m getting a Maverick 88 7+1. A semi-auto pistol 9mm and up. AR for fun. And what’s really fun is my beautiful wife said “you need to buy more guns” today after viewing the latest BS from Charlotte…

    1. avatar Jean says:

      That’s a keeper…

  22. avatar Andrew Lias says:

    Staying away from the riot is the best weapon, if I was trapped I’d certainly want an AR-15 of some kind. I’d likely want a clear mag as well.

  23. avatar Dutch says:

    I would say “the car” as in get yourself the hell out of that situation.

    1. avatar Raoul Duke says:

      Tell that to the people on the Interstate.

      That plan didn’t work out for them.

      1. avatar ropingdown says:

        Make that “a car with a cow-catcher on the front.”

        It worked for the railroads.

  24. avatar Andrew Lias says:

    ED:This guy is a moron. He went from a point of being neutral in the crowd’s mind to being the center of attention. BAD idea.

    1. avatar strych9 says:

      Neutral in the eyes of the crowd right up until you’re not and they’re dragging you from the vehicle to go Alex DeLarge on your ass. I see nothing wrong with what this guy did because he created a standoff distance to keep these people away from his vehicle.

      Cars are not tracked vehicles and most don’t have a lot of ground clearance or 4WD. They can get stuck on crunchies if there’s a large crowd of them. If that happens you’re categorically fucked when the people you didn’t run over catch you.

      Just ask Reginald Denny what happens when the mob turns on you for no reason. As “Kiki” Watson put it ” “Nobody specifically sought out Reginald Denny to cause him any harm. We got caught up in the moment, just like everyone else.”

      1. avatar Andrew Lias says:

        If someone was even acting like they were going to lay a hand on his vehicle in anger I could agree with that, however they were ignoring him. At the point that happens all bets are off. Personally I’m keeping my gun a bit closer to avoid it being ripped out of my hand and used against me.

        There was also a bike cop that ended up diffusing the situation. Who knows how it would have gone otherwise. Don’t forget there are ultimately more of them than him, and by attracting attention to himself he made it so that there were yet more that were paying attention to him. The less people who know I have a gun till I have to use it the better, even if that means it’s in my hand on my lap in my car.

        1. avatar strych9 says:

          Having it outside the car does increase the risk that someone you don’t see takes it. I’ll agree with that, but warning people off with a gun in a situation like this, while not my first choice personally, is totally fine in my book.

          Most of these folks are cowards and as soon as they see it they’ll move away because no one wants to be the first person shot.

          IMHO, you want space in this situation. How you make that space is up to you.

          Just go read about what actually happened to Reginald Denny. The crowd was ignoring him right up until they weren’t. It went from being ignored to being ripped out of his truck by a crowd literally in a few seconds. Within a minute of the time he was “noticed” he was unconscious with nearly 100 skull fractures thanks to that brick. He was so badly beaten the his eye nearly fell into his sinus cavity and he had to relearn how to walk, talk etc. He’s still not 100%. If not for the actions of good Samaritans he would certainly have died from the injuries he sustained.

      2. avatar jwm says:

        I bet Denny wishes he’d had a j frame in his pocket that day. The best ass whipping is the one you don’t get. Just saying.

        1. avatar strych9 says:

          I would disagree. If there has to be an ass whipping then the best ass whipping is the one you hand out.

          In the case of a pistol or revolver of any type, you can hand out one hell of a ass whipping when it’s a pistol-ass-whipping.

  25. avatar lew says:

    good question and many good responses….

    Question is,,,,if you travel alot (and may be just passing through a town, unaware of unfolding civil unrest), let say you find your self in the middle such a mob…bumper to bumper with thugs pounding on the hood of your car…

    Do you wait till glass or door is breached before deploying deadly force? It would only take a second to reach in and grab you if it was the driver door.

    How do you first respond when you do? Use your car to clear a path???, be mindful that you may disable your vehicle in the process.

    Or do guns come out, take a few down and hope they scatter, giving you time to drive out?

    FWIW…A glock and a Tavor which can easily be deployed with one hand in the confines of the car make nice defensive choices.

  26. avatar passthebrass says:

    Personal – I’d dress up like a clown and run around with a seltzer bottle full of acid. Why? Because thats scary as hell.

    Property – Rooftop Koreans. Accept no substitute.

    1. avatar Chris T from KY says:

      +1
      I would also add the roof top Oath keepers in Ferguson Missouri.

    2. avatar jwm says:

      Trunk Monkey. Cheaper than Koreans and just as effective.

  27. avatar Nanashi says:

    Full auto. Nothing will scatter rioters faster.

    1. avatar Gov. William J. Le Petomane says:

      I was thinking mini gun. If 3000 rounds per minute doesn’t scatter the rioters you situation is truly grim.

      1. avatar SteveX says:

        That’s a great choice but I don’t think it would have the psychological of physiological impact that a Mk 19 would.

  28. avatar Warren says:

    If it’s in my neighborhood, AR pistol and as many mags as I can keep on me, as well as my handgun on my hip and whatever mags I can stuff in my pocket. Shades drawn, lights off, and a keen eye out the window. If it’s local to me, but not immediately nearby, full tank of gas in the car and everyone in the family on standby to leave at a moment’s notice if necessary. If we’re already in the car and it’s going down? We’re turning the car around and going the opposite direction. Avoid, Escape, and Evade.

  29. avatar michael says:

    M92 ak pistol with 75 rnd drum, or saiga 12 with a 25 rnd drum filled with 00 buck. Or just carry a bucket of deep fried chicken. When they attack, throw a drumstick like a grenade, theyll run to fetch it, u make ur escape.

    1. avatar passthebrass says:

      But chicken costs money. Just play The Star Spangled Banner from your phone and they’ll kneel or sit down.

  30. avatar ActionPhysicalMan says:

    Only dumbshits and police get caught out in riots.

    1. avatar JR_in_NC says:

      Addressed above.

      You are being extremely short sighted and narrow minded with this mindset.

      Trouble can find you. It surely found a number of folks in Charlotte and Milwaukee that were not “dumb.”

  31. Another day, Another Mass shooting…

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/gunman-kills-two-takes-own-life-tennessee-manufacturing-000122037–finance.html

    This doesn’t happen in europe, japan, canada and australia on a daily basis.

    1. avatar pwrserge says:

      So now a double homicide is a “mass shooting”? Wow… You leftie cunts are really stretching. Here’s an idea, if you like those countries so much, get the fuck out of mine and take your ass there.

    2. avatar Curtis in IL says:

      It was a double murder/suicide, not a mass shooting. And they happen in every corner of the world, more often than you realize. Knives and other common tools are routinely used to slaughter entire families. You need a better source for international news, because US-based media isn’t going to report it, for two reasons: 1) No one here cares, and 2) it doesn’t fit their narrative.

    3. avatar Sian says:

      Off-topic shitposting now?

      Why aren’t you banned yet?

      Robert, seriously, this doofus adds nothing, and isn’t even amusing anymore.

    4. avatar ACP_arms says:

      The FBI definition for a mass shooting is – “FOUR or more shot and/or killed in a single event [incident], at the same general time and location, not including the shooter.”
      The story you linked to does not meet the definition for a mass shooting.

    5. avatar DaveDetroit says:

      Your name says “American”. That used to be synonymous with “freedom loving”. You are obviously buying into the false narrative that gun violence is a huge problem. Cars and swimming pools kill on a daily basis. This doesn’t happen in countries where people don’t drive or use pools. But I don’t seen anyone calling for their banning. I’m sincerely interested in knowing what is driving your fear of guns. Are you trying to “preserve human life”? Afraid of violence against your person? Do you believe that violence using a knife, baseball bat or bomb is preferred over violence using a gun? I find it interesting that modern progressives don’t think people have any natural rights and fear gun violence (even though its a very small percentage of death and suffering) over other “acceptable” forms of violence and suffering such as what is inflicted by Planned Parenthood. Cop kills a bad guy holding a gun and that’s “bad” but gang members kill tens of other gang members and that’s “perfectly OK. Nothing to see here, move along”.

      Besides “getting rid of guns” what, specifically, are you trying to mitigate against? Was there no violence, theft, or assault before the invention of the gun?

  32. avatar Curtis in IL says:

    My wife will have the AR-15. I’ll have the shotgun. We’ll both have modern pistols on our hips with 17+ rounds in the magazine.

    She can cover me while I reload, and vice-versa.

  33. avatar justin says:

    Claymores and Fougasse.

    1. avatar Cliff H says:

      Claymores! I like it!

      Please pay close attention to the “This side towards enemy” on the concave side, its’ not just a suggestion.

      1. avatar Curtis in IL says:

        That would be the convex side.

        1. avatar lew says:

          he will only make that mistake once

        2. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Forget the convex/concave, it STILL confuses me. “THIS SIDE TOWARD ENEMY” does not!

  34. avatar Hillary for Prison 2016 says:

    Just shift into 4LO and blast some AC/DC

  35. avatar Trollololol says:

    I’d just toss job applications at them

    1. avatar deepdiver68 says:

      AHAHAHAHA *winner

  36. avatar Hoplopfheil says:

    The best weapon is to call in sick to work, avoid going grocery shopping, and staying home.

  37. avatar strych says:

    Air support with 500lb JDAMs on tap would be nice….

    In the real world though it’s going to depend. If you’re caught in the middle of a spontaneous riot it’s going to be whatever pistol you’ve got hopefully with a spare mag or three.

    If you’re at home in the burbs when an angry mob bent on bloodshed shows up I’m gonna go with an intermediate rifle round, probably 5.56×45. It’s not going to have serious over penitration problems like 7.62x51and thereby threaten your neighbors but it will still drop rioters effectively and allow you to target individuals or groups as necessary. I’d roll with standard 30 round mags for reliability and because I don’t have mag pouches or the mags for anything larger like a Surefire.

  38. avatar DaveDetroit says:

    My CC is a 5 shot revolver. Not a great choice for a riot but better than nothing. I like it because I can have my hand around it in a coat pocket while in a parking garage. If I was in a riot prone-city and absolutely had to travel… Caught in the open, I’d want a high quality pepper spray and my Beretta 92 with extra mags. I’d want my .357 686 plus with 3 inch barrel for backup. But I also like that its still reliable when shoved against an assailant in close quarters. It makes a hell-of-a bang and flash in the dark, which I’m sure would part crowds. My number one objective would be escape and evasion. A car is a pretty scary weapon against a crowd and would be my number 1 choice for evading. My biggest concern would be getting attacked from the rear and so would want a solid wall behind/beside me. If I was holed up as in an office building or home/apartment, pepper spray and a semi-auto shotgun with night sights and buckshot. I’m not yet proficient enough with my AR to trust myself with it.

    From what I’ve seen, the appearance of a gun alone, is enough to scatter the crowd and create distance. This is one instance where I think the loud report of a gun going off would likely have the rioters falling over themselves to escape in the other direction.

  39. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

    I’d recommend a good ol’ starter pistol. These cowardly mobs hear a gunshot and they’ll scatter like roaches when the light turns on. Plus, you’re not likely to cause anyone any direct harm with it.

    1. avatar Ralph says:

      What if the crowd won’t be bluffed?

      If a gang of bad actors came after me with deadly intentions (very unlikely — I stay away from places where mobs might occur), I would cause them as much harm as necessary.

      1. avatar strych9 says:

        I’m with Ralph on this. The guy you scare off with a starter gun might realize what happened and come back. The guy with 3/4ths of his brains on the pavement ain’t doing shit other than rotting.

  40. avatar deepdiver68 says:

    If I found myself in the middle of a mob or thought there was some higher risk of same (I faced this having to visit within 5 miles of the Ferguson riots twice during the day 0during that time)? Well, since the question asks “carrying” I”m assuming sidearm so, while not my EDC, in that situation I picked a 19 round full size 9mm. With .45 acp (my preference) and three extra mags you typically get 29-53 rounds total, while same # mags in the higher capacity 9mm gave me 77 rounds. To match that extra capacity means carrying an extra 2+ mags for the vast majority of sidearms.

    I’d be happy to also be carrying my innocuous off-the-shelf “school backpack” I use for light day-pack/trunk bag with the Kel-Tec Sub 2000 and it’s several extra mags and ammo and other mild emergency preparedness stuff inside.

    Defending real property, like home or office? Different problem since I’m not worried about walking around town carrying my selection for this. Given my personal home/office situates I’m going with the standard 3 gun selection: M4 style AR15 for some distance and/or precision, 18.5″ Mossberg 590A1 w/speedfeed stock and buckshot for “this is getting pretty close”, and EDC .45acp sidearm with extra mags/ammo for each. Pretty simplistic but tried and true.

  41. avatar iowaclass says:

    I suppose the Striker 12 would be a good choice. You can load individual chambers without taking it out of battery. You can fire “double action” without having to pump or lever, or count on the autoloading cycle to work properly everytime without fail. You have fairly large capacity and a variety of ammo choices, and, with a foldover stock, decent compactness.

  42. avatar Ian in Transit says:

    Against a mob style attack? My wife (or another capable person/people). I would rather have my EDC and a second person with theirs than be alone with anything I can legally and financially acquire. Covering each others flank and back, continuing to fire while each reloads, interlocking fields of fire. Depending on the size of the mob it seems to me that not being alone would be more advantageous than any single firearm. And then only if you can’t avoid stupid people doing stupid things in stupid places.

    If I have time to prepare . . . everything.

  43. avatar AnOregonian says:

    Best Gun for Personal, Property Defense During a Riot?

    For from a car, PS90. Plenty of ammo and can be maneuvered easily in the car.

    For on foot, Glock 19. Concealable for when the threat isn’t present but still plenty of ammo.

    1. avatar barnbwt says:

      Hell yes, PS90. That, or an American 180. Number of shots is what matters, second is mobility. You can’t hold off a mob of zombies (same damn thing) on your own since you will eventually need to reload, and without a crew to cover you, you will be overwhelmed. But a lightweight, high capacity, compact firearm that is both accurate and lethal (5.7 certainly is, 22LR in trained hands is as well) is the best suited tool for picking off immediate numerous threats as they approach while making a hasty retreat. It’s also plenty bright and flashy for effect after dark, but not as cripplingly so as 223 for the shooter.

      Improvised defense against a sudden wave of attackers is literally what PDWs were designed for (hostile paratrooper incursions behind the front lines)

  44. avatar Florian Geyer says:

    1. A Vepr 12 or DDI 12 with those 8 round mags or 30 round drums. 30 shells of 00 buck with 9 pellets per shell (15 if you use 3 inch shells) is 270 .32 caliber rounds (450 if you’re using 3 inch shells). There aren’t a lot of problems you can’t solve with that amount of lead.

    2. An RPK style AK with a heavy barrel like an AESb-10 or c39 rpk with a 75 round drum mag and either a slidefire or one of those gatling style triggers.

  45. avatar mk10108 says:

    Keep in mind the people attacking you may be from out of town so 70% chance your not drawing on locals.

    http://www.mediaite.com/online/cnns-burnett-share-that-most-arrested-nc-protesters-were-from-out-of-state/

    Also note, folks are not protesting, just lemmings with smartphones looking to sell footage to local news.

  46. avatar Taylor TX says:

    Makes me think my Shield would be a little insufficient. Im actually surprised there was not someone in one of the vehicles that said frak it and stood on the gas.

  47. avatar Kap says:

    depends on situation, if in car a 3″ snub nose .44 special, 2 speed Loaders 10 rounds loose ammo {300 gn}, strictly as a back up for car, first priority get out of dodge, {playing chicken works}! If at home a 12 Ga #4 buck with speed loaders, .44 special as back up! On foot same 12 ga, same 44 special, speed Loaders, loose Spare ammo, if time a Sig 380 backup, and a10.5 inch Kukri { which are always in go bag} and a damn case of energy drinks for break time, Remember they can kill you but its against the law too eat ya!
    Non Sibi Sed Patriae

  48. avatar Locke_n_Load says:

    My suppressed 9mm AR SBR with 33rd glock mags is more stable than a pistol platform, but still short enough for the truck or room clearing. 11.5″ effective barrel length with suppressor. Don’t lose the ability to hear if I have to deploy it in my truck or house either.

  49. avatar LarryinTX says:

    Tension in the area, swap out my 8-shot 9mm for my 20-shot 9mm for EDC. At home, 12-gauge #4 magnum, with a 20-round .308 leaning in the corner if the 12 isn’t convincing.

  50. avatar Lance Manion says:

    My riot plan: I come out the front door dressed like a post-apocalyptic clown, spraying VEPR 12 and profanities! My wife doing the same with our two rottweilers on QD leashes going F-ing nuts! Judas Priest playing at top volume from inside the house, shaking the walls! My 6 and 8-year-old sons stand on the porch dressed in goat horns and leggings, covered in blood and waving battle axes! Any rioters who stay in the face of that are hard core! Man..I do love stupid questions like this! LOL.

    1. avatar nigeltheduelist says:

      Heh. That is totally Michael Talbot 😀

  51. avatar Chris T from KY says:

    The Judge with 410 winchester PDX ammunition. Its only 5 rounds for this wheel gun but PDX rounds are absolutely devastating.
    The AR15 with a 410 upper and 20 round box, you have no worries about over penetration.
    Never brandish from a car! This guy is just showboating. It just makes things worst .

  52. avatar jwm says:

    I live in the great state of CA which has decided that a gun owner is the only person whose civil rights they can fuck with.

    We have mag limits and bullet buttons which put the EBR out of the realm of reasonable riot control gear. I really miss my sks. I only have 2 center fire rifles. Both 5 shot bolt guns.

    So my anti riot gear is the same as my everyday gear. A 7+1 maverick 88 in 12 bore backed up by a vareity and number of other shotguns.

    I got enough handguns that I can deal with 10 round mag limits ok. Do I wish my sigma had a full 16 round mag? Sure, but see above about civil rights.

    1. avatar nigeltheduelist says:

      Infringed, gimped, and surrounded by little zombies (mindless horde that consumes all…what else are they?).

  53. avatar A Brit in TX says:

    It’s a similar situation to what happened to two British Army corporals caught up in an IRA funeral procession in 1986. They got dragged out of their car by the mob (despite firing warning shots from their service pistols) and then beaten and shot to death, I believe with their own pistols. Nasty stuff and it demonstrates the power of a mob.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporals_killings

  54. avatar anaxis says:

    A Saiga-12 loaded with #1 buck, and a couple drums. Or maybe a Kel-tec KSG.

  55. avatar Winterborne says:

    32 pounder naval cannon (muzzle loader) loaded with triple canister. Nothing but burger for 50 yards.

    An M2 flamethrower would be nice too. Or go whole hog and dust off that Churchill Crocodile with its 500 gallon armored fuel tank. Those things made even the Waffen SS call it a day.

    1. avatar tdiinva (Now in Wisconsin) says:

      You win the thread.

  56. avatar sgt blowitup says:

    The house loaded with C4 wait till the house is full and blow the shit out of it.

  57. “…….a North Carolinian motorist brandishes a handgun out of his window to forestall attack. Not the smoothest move; his car is plenty capable of the [potentially lethal] force necessary to his escape. And brandishing in this situation was bound to inflame passions. Which it did.”?

    What a cuck. Who cares whether he “inflamed passions” it’s not HIS responsibility to calm the savage beasts threatening him and surrounding his personal property. Under NC law he not only has the “right” to defend himself but also to save his property from sustaining damage.

    The only issue I see here in extending his legally possessed firearm out a window where it could be grabbed by a violent Son of Obama or Leftist punk.

  58. avatar ATTAG Reader says:

    Caught in a rioting crowd I hope I would have my SR9c with multiple 17 round mags. If rioters were attacking my property, the AK and AR would both be at work.

  59. avatar My Life Matters says:

    Conceal carry Glock 19. Two 33 round Mags in the center console. I think I’m good.

  60. avatar Rokurota says:

    My PLR-16. Muzzle flash and noise make it an area denial weapon.

  61. avatar RockOnHellChild says:

    Well, if I’m caught out and about, the G19, one spare mag, and LCP are all I’ve got, but I’m pretty sure that’s more than most would have… But, maybe I’m just a “mall ninja”, by some folks account.

    If I’m at home, there are some 7.62×39 FMJ’s in an AK that’ll cure what ails ’em.

    Lots of penetration, big, lots, YUGE!

  62. avatar Why can't we get along says:

    If I could get it would be AA-12 Shotgun.

  63. avatar SkyMan77 says:

    The trusty M4 and backup M9 (or 1911) should work just fine for an egress out of a situation like that…

    Two (or more) hardened defenders would really stack the odds in your favor… Thinking bullets would most likely be flying in both directions…

    Already said but worth saying again… The Mind is the real weapon, the rest are just tools… IMHO if you find yourself in a situation like that you’ve already failed, it’s a matter of damage control at that point…

  64. avatar Jim Macklin says:

    Deterrence is better than having to shoot warning shoots or shoot people.
    To that end what I want to have to defend my home is as well known guns, even if they are only semi-auto.
    A Thompson with a drum magazine and a laser. An M1A with laser and bayonet attached.
    A 12 gauge pump with flash-bang [bird scatter loads, sold to move the starlings off the airport] and some rubber slugs.
    Of course the 1911 because it looks more powerful to the mob.
    I also want several friends over to help. And video cameras covering all angles including outward and inward, all time stamped.
    My vehicles need poly-carbonate “glass” and Kevlar and armor plate panels to protect the passengers and engine and fuel tanks. Tear gas dispensers and a closed environmental systems would be nice.
    Lots of painfully bright lights mixed with strobes.
    A sound system that plays Another One Bites the Dust.

  65. avatar WSB says:

    8.5″ Barrel 12gauge pump, not a typo EIGHT.FIVE inch!
    Legal in Canada (unregistered, with basic gun licence) to carry out of sight in car if unloaded. Uses 5-round box magazines ?

    Muzzle flash ?

    NOT LEGAL ADVICE, YMMV.

  66. avatar Hugo says:

    For home defense against a mob? I’m thinking you’d want hi cap mags, accuracy out to 100 yards or so…I’m going with my Mini-14 and carrying my hi cap xd .45 as a back up.
    If I have to leave the house…I’ll stick my kel-tec sub 2000 9mm in a backpack and carry my Glock 17 with me. A couple of 33 round mags and 3-4 17 round mags ought to be adequate for most situations. I like the ability to use the mags in either gun.

  67. avatar TTAG Intelligentsia says:

    The choice is obvious for me. Full Auto Shotgun with a 50 round drum. AA-12 comes to mind. Whatever mob is attacking you is now gone and you are free to flee to safety.

  68. avatar Don1974 says:

    As a long time former state corrections officer riot control begins and ends with the 12 GA. We used 870s, however other departments have reported good performance from their Mossberg 500 series shotguns.

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