Springfield Armory Daily Digest: Shooting to Stop, Talking Him Down, and Failing to Enforce

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Why do police shoot to kill? – They don’t. As CNN’s expert points out, they shoot to stop. “To gain a better understanding of police officers’ use of deadly force from their perspective, CNN interviewed Cedric Alexander, a nationally recognized policing expert and veteran police chief who was called in to review the Ferguson, Missouri, police department after the 2014 fatal shooting of Michael Brown. Alexander is currently Chief of Police in suburban Atlanta’s DeKalb County.”

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Your trenchant celebrity political analysis of the day: John Legend: Second Amendment, NRA Prevent U.S. from Following Australia’s Gun Confiscation – “During an interview with The Breakfast Club, John Legend praised Australia’s gun confiscation plan and lamented that the U.S. cannot follow suit because of “the Second Amendment and the NRA.” And may it ever be thus.

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Bravo: Tennessee school counselor talks student with gun out of shooting – “A Tennessee school counselor is being called a hero Thursday after convincing a teenager to handing over a loaded handgun. A 14-year-old boy went to Sycamore Middle School on Wednesday asking to speak with counselor Molly Hudgens, according to WKRN-TV. Authorities said he told her he was having problems and was going to kill teacher and a police officer, but no students; he told her she was the only one who could talk him out of it. She did.”

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SUFFIELD, Conn. – September 30, 2016 – Since its introduction in 2006, the 338 Federal has established itself has an extremely versatile, high-performance big game cartridge. These qualities have inspired Savage Arms to chamber six of its most popular big game rifles in the caliber. They include the 11 Long Range Hunter, 11 Hog Hunter, 16 FCSS, 16 Bear Hunter, 11 Trophy Hunter XP and 16 Trophy Hunter XP. These firearm options are currently shipping to dealers.

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Huh. As gun ownership increases, prosecutions for lying to get a gun fall – “Federal prosecutors nationwide, between 2004 and 2015, charged an average of 32 people per year with knowing they were forbidden from owning a gun but still trying to sneak past a background check, contends the Office of Inspector General report released this week. That compares with 166 people charged in 2003 when the drop began.” But we need still more laws (read: universal background checks) to ensure bad guys don’t get guns.

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New Haven police warn of dangerous ‘paintball gun war’ going on in city – “New Haven police issued an urgent warning Friday about a street “paintball gun war” in which teens are using devices that resemble real assault-style rifles. ‘The warning is this; Dangerous situations with potentially tragic outcomes exist when responding police officers can’t quickly determine if the gun displayed is real or not,’ police spokesman Officer David Hartman said in a release.”

Magpul’s backing youth shooting sports in Texas:

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comments

  1. avatar FedUp says:

    “he told her she was the only one who could talk him out of it”

    Methinks that boy was desperate for attention or mental health treatment.
    He didn’t want to kill anybody, he wanted somebody to notice / care about him.

    “Dangerous situations with potentially tragic outcomes exist when responding police officers can’t quickly determine if the gun displayed is real or not”

    How about you quit killing people for displaying/possessing objects and concentrate on determining whether a crime is in progress?

    1. avatar Red in CO says:

      Right? Sounds like a desperate cry for help. Good on the counselor for caring enough to actually talk to the kid, rather than screaming while fumbling with the phone to call the cops.

  2. Ummm…paintball war. Don’t paintball “guns” look like squirt guns more or less? As far as prosecuting miscreants from lyin’ on a federal form-it’s all theatre. And the gun ‘”crisis” in Chiqraq could be solved in short order. Federal sentences for gun hooligans…

    1. Check out the paintball guns in the photo above.

      1. Send ’em a can of day-glo paint! lol

      2. avatar FedUp says:

        They all have CO2 (or, more likely these days, high pressure air) bottles on them. But that’s usually tucked under the shooter’s arm and not visible from the front.
        And if you’re using it, you’ve got a big ball hopper on top. Only one of the guns in the pic has the hopper attached (oh, no, he’s got a 200 round magazine on his machine gun!)

        I think it’s more of a behavior issue than an equipment issue. If you point it at a cop, he’s going to point something more lethal at you. If you’re handling it sensibly, nobody has any business pointing a firearm at you and cops need to re-learn that.

        1. avatar Hannibal says:

          And if you’re pointing it at someone else- which is obviously happening here- you don’t think the cops should do anything about that under the same impression that it is a real gun?

    2. avatar tjlarson2k says:

      Paintball masks, paintball tubes, and hoppers may be a clue. An assessment by the police on scene or responding to a call will have to happen and you can only hope the responding officer(s) are knowledgeable and educated on paintball tech and hardware.

      Of course, it wouldn’t be the smart choice to have a paintball war with milsim markers without informing local PD. And who seriously does so in a public setting and thinks it’s a good idea.

  3. avatar RCC says:

    The thing antis forget to mention is how much was paid for guns and parts in Australia.

    The only thing that made the “buyback” slightly bearable here in Australia was the 300% mark up of prices a lot of us got for old firearms. Plus selling for over two times new price old .22 auto with cracked frame I couldn’t have sold any other way

    Also plenty of stories of people milling so called machine gun and other parts as fast as they could for the six months.

    Not that I like our current system in anyway but there are now officially more firearms and shooter than before the “buyback” .

    Government spending around $1000 per gun does not seem possible for the USA given sheer numbers there. But a better to prevent than to try repeal

    1. avatar JR_in_NC says:

      “Government spending around $1000 per gun does not seem possible for the USA given sheer numbers there.”

      Never underestimate the US Government’s ability to fiat currency into being from thin air. Or borrow from a potential enemy state.

      1. avatar Katy says:

        Trouble is, they’d be giving all that new money to firearm owners, especially that 3% that own all the guns. Suddenly, they’ve given the now-former firearm owners a powerful tool to wield in campaigns against the politicians who push the confiscation through.

        Confiscation is a short term victory and a long term loss. Trouble is, most liberals are myopic.

  4. avatar Ralph says:

    “New Haven police issued an urgent warning Friday about a street “paintball gun war”

    No big deal. The New Haven cops will kill them all soon.

    1. avatar Stinkeye says:

      Now, granted, these yoots running around the city streets with paintball guns clearly aren’t the deepest thinkers around, but I’ll bet the New Haven cops won’t have to kill them all. Just a single room-temperature paintball warrior ought to put an end to the Great Paintball War of ’16.

  5. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

    It’s pretty impressive what you come up with when you neck up a .308 to take a .338 bullet.

  6. avatar Vhyrus says:

    Hey cops, here’s a hint: paintball players wear goggles and face masks and have big buttpacks full of paint when they play. Their guns also have giant air tanks and hoppers attached to them. They also are about an order of magnitude quieter than a real gun when fired. That’s how you tell if the gun is real or not. Also, if all else fails, if you see a bunch of people shooting at each other in the middle of the day in Connecticut, and they aren’t screaming, falling down and bleeding everywhere, assume it is a paintball game.

    In other words: COMMON FUCKING SENSE

    1. avatar kenneth says:

      A wise man(could be Sam Clemens) once said; “nothing is as uncommon as common sense”.
      Now the cops cant even tell the difference between a tonka truck and a gun, so the hoppers and air tanks will probably make no difference either. So then they shoot the guy who isn’t even holding the tonka truck. When that is the best a society can do for ‘law enforcement’, that society’s days are severely numbered. No system can long survive when it begins eating itself this way.

  7. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

    re: the .338 Federal.

    Another solution to a problem we didn’t have in American firearms. Want a similar round that has been in the market for 90 years or so? Check out the .35 Whelen. Stuff a heavy .358 pill into a ’06 case, and you have a great rifle for killing large and even some dangerous game.

    The only problem the .338 Federal solves is that it does the same thing as a .35 Whelen or .338-06 on a short (.308-length) action. OK, you really want to use a short action? There’s another solution, already in the market (and has been for decades) called the .358 Winchester. Same or better energy – the .35 Whelen idea on a short action.

    Right here is a wonderful example of my rant about gun makers’ marketing departments coming up with new rounds you just ‘gotta have’ when the same thing has been in the market for decades since WWII. The .358 Winchester has been around since the 1950’s.

    1. avatar 16V says:

      Hokey smokes! Elenty Billion and 12 “wonder rounds”..

      20 rounds do it all more or less..

    2. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

      For some reason in the factory loads that I found, the .338 Fed had significantly more muzzle energy than the .358 Win loads. The Wheelen significantly higher yet. In fact I don’t see the point of the .358 over just using 180gr. bullets in a 308. Hand loaders may disagree though.

  8. avatar anarchyst says:

    …if a cop cannot disarm an individual with a knife or other cutting instrument, without using a firearm, he has no business wearing a badge. He should find another line of work…

    1. avatar Hellbilly says:

      A knife is a deadly weapon in the use of force continuum (same as a firearm). Only Hollywood actors and idiots would abandon a firearm to take their bare hands to a knife fight. Now, if there are two or more cops dealing with a single knife-wielding individual and the situation allows, one cop could use a Taser while the other(s) cover the knife-wielder with their firearms.

      1. avatar anarchyst says:

        …a cop with a baton should be ale to disarm a knife-wielding person. Anyone who has been in military service knows this. Of course, many cops are overweight (too many donuts), so the gun becomes the weapon of first resort. I would insist that all police officers stay in shape…excluding the use of steroids as they cause problems (overly aggressive behavior).
        “Escalation of force” has been replaced by “shoot first and ask questions later”, utilizing the police fraternal unions to help get them out of a jam.
        This “us vs. them” attitude cops have towards the citizenry must stop…

        1. avatar Hellbilly says:

          Again, why would anyone use a less-lethal weapon (baton) against an opponent with a deadly weapon (knife)? I’m a combat vet who served 4 years active duty in the USMC and I would still rather use a firearm against someone wielding a knife. As someone who has received knife training, I know what a well-trained individual with a knife is capable of.

          The bottom line is, Hollywood is not reality, Mr. Anarchist (or Stephen Seagal, or Chuck Norris, or whomever you think you are). Legally, cops are not required to use a lesser force to subdue a threat (Sir Isaac Newton would agree). End of story.

    2. avatar Hannibal says:

      We got a badass over here!

      Come out of retirement, Walker (Texas Ranger) or if you want to sit in your armchair just don’t bring a knife to a gunfight and you’ll be fine.

      1. avatar anarchyst says:

        …not a “badass” at all…just better trained and disciplined than most cops…

  9. avatar Shire-man says:

    Just carpet bomb New Haven already. No one redeemable quality and the poor residents are shit, the rich residents are shit, the Yalies are shit, the cops are all shit, the city council is a bucket of hot wet shit.

    Flatten it and make it a nice park on the shore. Normally I’d suggest walling it off but not even Snake himself could survive the self-destructive stupidity that goes on in there.

    The nations average IQ would jump 6 points if New Haven wasn’t a factor.

    1. avatar Geoff PR says:

      Do that and you create even more problems.

      As much as I’d *love* a massive earthquake or North Korea’s Kim Jong Un to pop a crude nuke warhead on a city, *at best* you kill only maybe half the people there.

      Now you have hundreds of *thousands* of disaster ‘refugees’ pouring out into the surrounding areas making those poor people’s lives a living hell…

      1. avatar Geoff PR says:

        Put it to you this way: An easily doable terror attack on New York city, like cut the power going into the city, with no chance of restoring electricity for *months*.

        8 million NYC people flooding out. How the hell do you house – feed *millions*?

  10. avatar gs650g says:

    I hope more of John legends songs are pirated by his fans diluting his too big income.

  11. avatar Chris Mallory says:

    “police officers can’t quickly determine if the gun displayed is real or not,’”

    This can be fixed pretty easily, the cops keep their weapons holstered until they actually determine that there is an actual threat. Citizen’s lives matter more than officer safety.

    1. avatar Hellbilly says:

      Hold on, Mr. Thug. Don’t shoot me while I run up to you and inspect what you have in your hand (pointed at me) before I decide whether or not to unholster my firearm.

  12. avatar deepdiver68 says:

    I hate idiot journalists. The 2nd paragraph of the Houston Chronicle story includes, “All that stands between the cache of weapons and criminals… and a flimsy .005-millimeter-thick government document: ATF 4473.”

    Really? .005 mm is more than 10X thinner than the thinnest commercial bible paper. But, a typical sheet of copier paper is around .005 inches +/- depending on weight.

    So, idiot journalist and idiot editors are too stupid to just read that and think “Woah, no f’in way, that has to be inches” or even “Wow, that seems too thin, better use that interwebs thing and check my facts”. Then we are supposed to believe that other not obvious facts in the article are accurate? Garbage journalism.

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