Gun guru Rob Pincus sent me a link to his sit-down with the notoriously, rabidly, anti-gun Cenk Uygur (whom we’ve pilloried on TTAG many times). Unlike most internet/YouTube bullies when face-to-face with an opponent, Mr. Uygur left his bellicosity behind.

During the 50-minute encounter, a reasonable “debate” ensues. Mr. Pincus misses some opportunities to set Mr. Uyghur to rights, such as the YouTube host’s explanation of why he doesn’t carry a gun (19:30). “It appears to be a verifiable fact that you are less safe if you have a gun on you.” Appears to be a verifiable fact? Oy.

Equally oy: Pincus’ statement that legal open carriers schlepping AR’s to assert their gun rights are an “embarrassment to the gun community.” Not that he’s entirely wrong. But gun rights advocates should support any legal exercise of their rights, right?

Rob tells TTAG that he’s taken some heat from The People of the Gun for consorting with the enemy. Nonsense. Pro-gun spokesfolk should take advantage of opportunities to present their position to gun muggles and, indeed, gun control advocates, too.

43 Responses to Personal Defense Network Rob Pincus vs. Young Turks Cenk Uygur

  1. It’s long, but watched it in segments. Rob explains in an amazing bit of logic, rationality, and common sense, words of wisdom to a rabid anti gunner. Without angry argumentative banter. Worth watching.
    I give (partial) kudos to Cenk (who is a jerk), for letting Rob answer his points/counterpoints without interrupting.

    Good vid.

    • Genk has been getting a very large number of negative comments on his own channel for being a jerk by interrupting and name calling etc. Maybe he actually took note of that fact. Look at the comments on his own video of is debate with Dinesh D’Souza.

    • Agreed. This was the most cogent conversation about gun safety I have seen to date. Pincus just opened the door to Cenk’s audience to gun ownership. Logic wins when it is allowed to be heard.

    • There are ways, but I won’t say in a forum that exists due to ad revenue and counts on it to keep the lights on.

    • Pincus, in the video, only disagrees with the Wal-Mart/Chipotle etc, open carry warriors, that wait with their cell phones for the cops to make a political statement. He also is a strict Constitutionalist when it comes to Cenk mentioning does it mean tanks and RPG’s.

      • Personally I have a few issues with some of the OC warriors, as you put it, too.

        I’m not against OCing a rifle but there are ways to do it and be polite and ways not to do it because you’re being impolite.

      • Every time someone uses that disparaging “Chipotle ninja” or variations thereof, the actual circumstances of the open carry incident referred to never line up with what the person using that term describes.
        They scream “Chipotle ninjas all kitted up, prowled around at low ready! Everyone was terrified!” Then you look at the pictures and it’s just three guys smiling for a photo, wearing board shorts and t-shirts, rifles slung over their shoulders, people in the background casually eating their meals or shopping.

        It leads me to conclude that they’re just anti-OC entirely. They just use the extreme scenarios as cover for their bias. “I support OC, but not Chipotle ninjas….” sounds a lot like “I support the Second Amendment, but not conduct that goes against common sense….”

        • And the rifle OC activism in Texas was deliberately provocative, in order to drive home the point that the law as it stood was absurd. It was legal at the time to open carry a long gun, but not a handgun. Going to Chipotle with an AR over your shoulder is attention grabbing and somewhat disruptive. Replace it with a Glock on the hip and the vast majority of people don’t even notice.

    • Here’s the bottom line, IMO, from a guy who does open carry when possible:

      If you open carry a rifle because for some reason open carry of a pistol is denied to you, you should do it as discretely as possible. Wearing full military kit, or camo, or a Kevlar vest, is NOT discreet. Carrying a rifle (or shotgun) open along with a pistol is not discreet, or necessary, unless your intention is to provoke gun muggles and video an interaction with very nervous LEOs. This is self-aggrandizement, not open carry promotion, and is obviously intended more towards a political or anti-cop statement than open carry support. While many LEOs can benefit from education on the legality of open carry of any sort of firearm the current social and political climate makes the presence of non-LEOs wearing military regalia and carrying rifles in public places understandably problematic.

      That said, wherever and whenever it is legal and reasonable, please carry your sidearm openly, if you wish. This is an important step in normalizing non-LEO guns in public as protected by the Second Amendment. If under those conditions you are harassed by law enforcement, by all means video and post.

      The most important thing about open carry is that if you look like a nut-case you will get SWATted. If you look like an average guy going about his business you may get talked to. It’s your choice, but the results of public SWATting do less to put LEOs in their place than they do to reflect negatively on POTG as a whole.

      As my Daddy used to tell me, “If you don’t go around acting like an asshole a whole lot fewer people will think you stink.”

    • Worse yet his co-host Ana is an Armenian. Can’t imagine taking anything someone with so little self respect says seriously.

    • Most Americans have never heard of the Armenian genocide. Our government refuses to make note of it since it might upset our Turkish “ally.” After all, we must show great deference to the Religion of Pieces.

      • I am not Armenian, nor am I related in any way, shape, or form to that region of the world. But I don’t get why he gets a pass for naming his program the Turkish equivalent of “The Neo-Nazis.”

        It’s disgusting.

    • As witnessed in the lengthy video, Pincus speaks calmly and rationally in a tone that Cenk cannot belittle or shout down him, as Rob controlled the tenor and pace of the interview.

      I’m sure a feeling of “going off on an asshole” crossed his mind, but he was given the chance to get a very we’ll cognoscent point that even Cenk agreed to on some points.

  2. I don’t agree with Cenk but at least this time he’s fairly reasonable. If he acted like this all the time I would simply disagree with him and not think he’s a jerk.

    “Pincus’ statement that legal open carriers schlepping AR’s to assert their gun rights are an “embarrassment to the gun community.” Not that he’s entirely wrong. But gun rights advocates should support any legal exercise of their rights, right?”

    Yes, we should support the legal exercise of the right but we should also at least try to have some standards when it comes to courtesy.

    I’ve seen too many of the rifle OC folks carrying at the low ready and letting their booger hook wander dangerously close to the bang switch. Their general handling of the rifle is a sure sign that they really don’t know what they’re doing and are carrying in a low ready position because they saw guys in cammies do it on the news. Let’s be honest here, it’s only a matter of time until one of those guys or gals has one in the pipe and has a ND. At that point you can expect holy hell to rain down on the gun community and that will come in spades if the ND round harms someone. The hate and discontent that will come down on us if it kills a kid isn’t something I want to think about.

    If you’re gonna OC a rifle, have some courtesy and carry it down your side, on your back or hell, even on your chest but keep your handling of the rifle to a minimum. You’re in the USA not foot patrolling in BFE Iraq or Afghanistan. You don’t need to have your rifle at the low ready at all times. Even Jerry Miculek has spoken out about this.

  3. He needed viewers. That is the only reason he had Rob Pincus on the program. Perhaps he is trying rehabilitation for his image after his Alex Jones meeting.
    Now I will watch this jerks show for the first time.

  4. Sorry-I ain’t watching The Turkish turd. That’s not a neo-Nazi name. It’s a pre-Nazi Turkish moose-lim delight. If you’ve ever seen pictures of crucified Armenian Christians-including women and children or heads on pikes you won’t give this vile POS a view. Pincus screwed up…

    • So by your utterly insane logic, nobody should ever watch anything you make because your distant ancestors committed atrocities.

      he’s also not a Muslim. How you could be unaware of that is utterly baffling considering you even know who he is.

      • I know who the hell Uygur is. Formerly employed by NBC/CNBC et all.Never said HE was a Moose-lim. Learn to read. But young turks is akin to SS or Hitler Youth or calling your bunch KKK kids. DUH new troll…

        • You’re a pretty stupid person hahaha.

          I have some valuable information for you. The Young Turks movement over a century ago in Turkey did not continue all this time to become an online news show in las angeles.

          I know this is going to sound crazy, but things can have similar names and not be the same thing.

        • @baserock Then he should have had the creative clout to come up with a better name. It’s like a clothing stores calling itself the brown shirts, but insisting it had no relations to the German Sturmabteilung thugs. Which may be the case, but you would be better off changing it. But seriously, when somebody asked me if I knew about his show, I had no clue. I thought it was about cooking, a travel show or maybe a reference to Final Fantasy VII.

  5. Wow did this guy do a terrible job of defending the correct position.

    He didn’t even MENTION all the studies on defensive gun uses with quantifiable numbers in response to the cherry picked number of specifically people who are justifiably killed in comparison to homicide uses? Numbers that DWARF homicides?

    He didnt’ even mention that only 5% of gun shots actually kill the person hit making the fact that only a small percent die as a result are irrelevant?

    He didn’t mention ANY of the extensive mainstream academic scholarship of the 2nd amendment, the founders own words on why they felt the right to keep and bear arms for the people was important, the federalist papers, the tons of personal letters from the founders, any of their quotes, the context of the word “regulated”, the similarities in wording of the 2nd amendment and other state constitutions of the time which clearly illustrate it’s intent as two separate ideas, it’s direct roots in the english common law bill of rights which was SPECIFICALLY clarified by blackstone as the rights of the people to be armed for self defense and protection from a tyrannical government.

    He didn’t even point out what a tiny fraction of accidental deaths are represented in those “high” numbers that Cenk gave?

    He didn’t even point out the hilariously dishonest methodology of the study that claims that having a gun in the home makes you more likely to be killed by one and the fact that ignores that the gun used to kill the person is only assumed to be the one in the home and they don’t control for that fact at all making it a completely useless study?

    He didn’t even challenge Cenk’s assertion that the REASON britain has lower murder rates than us is because they banned guns, which is easily debunked by the mere fact that homicide rates trend NEGATIVELY with private gun ownership overall, and that when we sunsetted our assault weapon ban our murder rate dropped at a greater rate than australias did when they banned them.

    He didn’t mention that during that period pretty much ALL developed countries had a massive decline in their crime rates, including the US which is at historic lows despite more guns being sold than EVER.

    No mention that all the countries with the highest rates of suicide almost have virtually if not outright banned private gun ownership yet it’s clearly not a deterrent to suicide.

    Bravo man. To the anti gunner or person who might be on the fence you made a ton of terrible arguments pretty much admittedly are just your opinion and you advertised that people can go to a guy for gun safety advice who advocates for civilian ownership specifically of shoulder fired missile launchers.

    Man, This was an embarrassment. I watch TYT, they’re not great, but on a few of my pet issues they actually are an excellent news aggregate. After you agreed to this interview, you should have watched some of the dishonesty they put forward in their anti gun garbage and had facts and citations ready. You should have prepared man.

    I keep saying it. If we want to hang onto our right to own guns, we need better arguments.

    • Also forgot to mention:

      -Regulated in those days meant “to be in working order, properly equipped, etc.” not to restrict in modern parlance. It is an example for why the right exists, not a condition.

      -Also forgot to mention if you are between the ages of 17-49 and a U.S. citizen you are automatically in the militia whether you like it or not. Yea that means you intercity hipsters are in the militia as well. So if you think only people in the militia should have a gun does that mean people who are 50 and older no longer have a right to a gun when they need it the most?

      -That Britain’s “low crime rate” is from them fudging the numbers and their different way of recording homicides. They only count them if there is a conviction in court, we count them regardless if there is a case or not.

      -That plenty of incidents in China have had mass stabbings in the triple digits.

      – That focusing on the tool is irrelevant and murder is still murder regardless of the tool used. Trying to overemphasize the gun and deemphasize other means is dishonest and sickening.

      -That most gun show sales are from licensed gun dealers who have to have a background check done regardless if they are in their store or not.

      Also using “sources” from the VPC is an automatic disqualification in my mind to base one’s argument on since it is a biased source. None of my sources come from the NRA or pro-gun associations.

      • I covered number one.

        I’m not sure if 2 and 3 are accurate, they might be, i’m not claiming they aren’t, i just don’t know off hand but regardless on number 2, there’s no formal militia with compulsory service so i personally wouldn’t use that as an argument even if Mason did say that.

        He did sorta touch on at least your point in number 4 but he didn’t really use the most cogent example of it. I also like to point out the rwandan genocide. A million people hacked to death with machetes. Guns have FAR from a monopoly on effective means of causing death.

        And good on you for not using the NRA as a source, the only reliable sources in this absurdly partisan issue is scholarly peer reviewed study, criminology studies VERY much support our position, and of course government crime statistics. Hell even the CDC often supports our position with it’s compiled data.

  6. Nobody watches The Young Propagandists for a “debate”. They do so to relish in confirmation bias of their loony world view.

    • Correct. In fact journalism is completely dead. There is only propaganda (by definition means telling only one side of the story). Confirmation bias has made people consume only their favorite propaganda. No-one hears both sides or all sides of any story.

  7. I listen to the young turks all the time on podcast while I’m working. I can’t stand them, they are hypocritical on par with even fox news and cnn, but I listen to them too, just to be well rounded. I wanted to believe their heart was in the right place when I started listening a year or so ago. Now I think they are either brainwashed or completely bought out. The guy who gives the best opinions is the black dude that helps produce the show, JR I think, he’s not even a commentator and his public speaking skills and rational are consistently leaps and bounds better than the hosts.

    • I watch select segments of their show.

      People need to understand that they’re a news aggregate opinion show, everything they do is sourced, they’re not a source and often but not always their source is pretty sound. I watch them on certain subjects because some of their pet causes are also shared by me and they do an EXCELLENT job of finding pretty much every story related to those causes and compiling them each weak. Those causes being police brutality and political corruption.

      One thing i give them credit for is their opposition to political corruption and the fact that they hate the republicans and democrats and constantly go after both parties. If anybody in either party has a story break on them because some evidence popped up that demonstrates yet another corrupt cog in the machine, it will be on TYT the moment it happens. Christ, they featured some of the Clinton corruption before i saw even the right wing echo chamber propaganda sites talk about it. I generally ignore their opinions, and i always read their cited sources.

      It is true they used to be a lot better before they went crazy with the social justice nonsense.

      • The Clinton’s corruption goes back years, all the way to Slick Willy’s tenure as Governor and Shrillery’s various positions as a board of director on Walmart and Lawyer. And it’s been documented for years by various sources, including various “right-wing echo chambers” long before the Turks got wind of it.

  8. That could not be Cenk! He didn’t rant, he didn’t rave, he didn’t tell Rob what a dumbass he was.

    That must be Cenk’s twin brother. That should let him host TYT, I might actually watch the show.

  9. I appreciate the support from many of you… some of the other comments are expressed in such a way as to make me glad that those commenters didn’t/don’t support me.

    Thanks, as always, to TTAG for sharing the information and creating an opportunity for discussion.

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