DeSantis Gunhide Question of the Day: Israel Destroys Home of Palestinian Who Murdered Israeli-American In Her Bed. Right Answer?

Crime scene Israel (courtesy israeltoday.co.il)

Critics of Chicago’s gun control regime rightly claim that the Windy City’s “revolving door justice system” shares much of the blame for its firearms-related homicide stat. The idea is simple enough: stop trying to “get guns off the streets.” Lock-up the people who do the shooting (i.e. career criminals) and there will be less shooting.

desantis blue logo no back 4 smallTaking that philosophy to the extreme, presidential hopeful Donald Trump famously promised to kill the families of terrorists to defeat ISIS. (A statement The Donald later denied/retracted/clarified/whatever.)

Somewhere in between: the Israeli government’s action against the family of the teenager who snuck into Hallel Yaffa Ariel’s home and stabbed her to death in her bed. Israel’s revoking Israeli work permits for members of killer Mohammed Tarayreh’s extended family and demolishing his family home.

It’s hard to imagine the U.S. government taking this kind of punitive action here in the Land of the Free against the families of the terrorists who shot and killed innocent Americans in San Bernardino and Orlando. But what do you think? Would you support something similar?

comments

  1. avatar pwrserge says:

    Yup. Collective responsibility policies are effective. I would have staked the twat’s entire immediate family in a public square.

    1. avatar RealityCheck says:

      So if you had a brother who went on a rampage, we can stake you out in the public square for a public execution, right?

      1. avatar pwrserge says:

        Yeah… Because the family’s terrorist ideology clearly had nothing to do with this. Again. Collective responsibility is an effective method for fighting insurgencies.

        1. avatar RealityCheck says:

          Nobody’s talking about insurgencies. The question being posed here in this article is about an American government response to actions happening in America. And in America, yes, you can certainly have relatives that don’t share your philosophy. But if you’re in favor of executing a person’s family for that person’s actions, then — what’s good for the goose has to be good for the gander, right?

          Sorry, the whole idea is insane. This is the land of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. I am no more responsible for my cousin’s actions, than you are.

        2. avatar jwtaylor says:

          Wow. First you support “guilty until proven innocent” with the no fly-no buy-list and now you’ve upped the anti to someone’s entire family is guilty. Disgusting and un-American. You need to go back and read your oath of enlistment again, you’ve abandoned it.

        3. avatar Ing says:

          Effective? Maybe. Palestinians are still murdering Israelis, so clearly it hasn’t solved the problem.

          You do know where the notion of collective guilt leads, right?

        4. avatar pwrserge says:

          Hey Taylor, the question is would I support these particular actions in these particular circumstances. Illegal combatants don’t get constitutional protections. Neither do their accomplices. The Constitution is not a suicide pact that was meant to override the laws and customs of war. George Washington had plenty of British spies summarily hung. Marines were hanging pirates well into the 18th century. This is no different.

        5. avatar Omer Baker says:

          Collective responsibility is also an effective way to create more terrorists. If the US were under occupation and your family were killed by the occupiers, would you be more likely to take up arms against them?

        6. avatar jwtaylor says:

          Serge, I apologize. I thought you were referencing this in the USA as it is today. Israel is a different set of circumstances. Again, sorry.

        7. avatar Warren says:

          Muslim Americans have turned in more terrorists on American soil than American Intelligence Agencies have detected/arrested using mass surveillance ( https://warisboring.com/american-muslims-turn-in-lots-of-terrorists-5be4561fded1#.8vif0paqa ). So collective responsibility is happening, and it’s better than the government at busting terrorists. Secondly, the 5th Amendment protects due process, in which a citizen is not deprived of life, limb, or property without being charged and tried for a crime. If there is ANY evidence, or really, suspicion that a terrorist’s family aided and abetted their actions, then I suppose we could do something like Israel, AFTER A TRIAL AND CONVICTION. We’re not savages.

        8. avatar pwrserge says:

          Again… The Constitution does not apply to illegal combatants or their accomplices. By your logic we should have arrested the pirates raiding US shipping off of the Barbary coast rather than hanging them for piracy as soon as we caught them.

          Oh, and Muslim-American is an oxymoron. One of the core tenets of Islam is the rejection of all identities outside of the ideology. You are either a member of the house of Islam, or you are a kefir. There is no middle ground.

        9. avatar Mister Fleas says:

          “First you support “guilty until proven innocent” with the no fly-no buy-list and now you’ve upped the anti to someone’s entire family is guilty.”

          Practically the whole family IS guilty. Another relative of the murderer attempted to knife a police officer, and the murderer’s uncle tried a car ramming attack.

          The Israelis should wipe out the entire remaining family.

        10. avatar int19h says:

          The moment someone says “constitution is not a suicide pact”, that’s your sign to tell them to fuck off. Nothing else that they might say is of any interest.

        11. avatar Mikial says:

          The Orlando terrorist’s wife knew exactly what he was up to and said nothing. Are you going to say she should just be allowed to go on with her life like nothing happened?

        12. avatar Bruce Webb says:

          Yea, didn’t Hitler use that method?

        13. avatar pwrserge says:

          Hitler also brushed his teeth. Should we now all abandon dental hygiene?

          The reality is that we are at war. War is not conductive to due process for your enemies. This is especially true when your enemies are illegal combatants who do not respect the laws and customs of war.

        14. avatar Stuki Moi says:

          “The Orlando terrorist’s wife knew exactly what he was up to and said nothing. Are you going to say she should just be allowed to go on with her life like nothing happened?”

          Yes. her duty is to be her husband’s wife. Not some State’s informant.

    2. avatar Cliff H says:

      I believe that Israel’s history and situation are unique and they should be allowed to deal with it as seems proper in their culture and defense posture.

      Should a similar policy be used in the United States? Absolutely NOT. Constitution. Due process. Charged by a Grand Jury.

      If certain family members were found (legally, using due process) to have been aware of the attack or to have facilitated the attack they should face legal action up to and including deportation if they were not natural born citizens, or capital punishment, if appropriate to the crime.

      We are a nation of laws. We can fight to change those laws if we don’t like them, we can ignore them if we accept the consequences, but we cannot let the fear of terrorist attacks destroy our Constitution or they will have already won the battle and perhaps the war.

    3. Collective responsibility? Antithesis to American individualism.

      You sound like a socialist. It takes a village right?

      1. avatar pwrserge says:

        You do realize that you don’t fight a war the same way you run a country? Right?

        1. Regarding your assertation of policing vs war: As long as we are clear it takes an act of Congress to start a war by our country, we can find common ground.

          So then the problem regarding this: is it a police action or a war action? It ain’t so clear when we’re talking about this area of the world..

        2. avatar pwrserge says:

          Congress already has a war whether they like it or not. ISIS is sneaking cells into the country and supporting them via local turncoats. All involved are illegal combatants subject to summary execution.

        3. avatar Dylan says:

          What exactly is an “illegal combatant”?

          How would one become a “legal combatant”?

        4. avatar Pwrserge says:

          Simple. While engaged in combat, bear arms openly, have an established chain of command, wear a uniform recognizable from a distance, etc… Standard Geneva protocols.

    4. avatar rob06 says:

      I would move to deport the families of the San Bernardino, Orlando, and Boston terrorists. I’d snuff the surviving terrorists, and send their families packing.

  2. avatar Your Real Name says:

    What does the acronym TTAG stand for again?

    1. Go Fudd or Go Home

    2. avatar Nunchuck says:

      It stands for “Tits, Tane And Guns”.

      The three favorite things of real men.
      Sissies cannot understand.

      1. avatar Another Two Months says:

        Today’s winning comment. Probably this month’s winning comment.

      2. avatar jwtaylor says:

        The “a” isn’t for Ass? My god, you mean I was hired for my writing? Back to the squat rack for me!

  3. avatar Dev says:

    No, definitely the wrong response. This type of punitive action against family and community members without any proof of guilt just escalates the circle of violence and hatred.

    1. avatar pwrserge says:

      You assume that any response by the Israelis other than abject surrender would do anything to make the muzrats hate them less. That’s patently absurd. You don’t win wars against people that hate you by being nice to them.

      1. avatar Hannibal says:

        You don’t win them by demolishing a home, either.

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          Sure you do. It worked with Japan and Germany. The Israelis are just too restrained about it. I would have demolished the village and deported the population.

        2. avatar BillC says:

          Actually, you do. One just has to ensure they demolish ALL the homes.

        3. avatar Alexander says:

          The mistake the Israelis are making is that they make sure that the house is empty before destroying it. The curtesy that the terrorists do not reciprocate.

      2. avatar Dev says:

        Japan and Germany were sovereign countries; they were also rebuilt with help and money provided by the countries that defeated them. If Israel goes that route your point is valid.

    2. avatar CLarson says:

      I would argue the opposite. The number of people wishing for the destruction of Israel is inextricably correlated to the rising Muslim population around them. Israel may not be able to do anything about that but they can try to keep the number of attacks down by raising the cost for enemies to attack. It’s simple economics. The higher the price, the less demand for a product, which in this case are the lives of Israelis. Israel has chosen to make that price high, indeed. Good for them.

  4. avatar Paul Stoufflet MD says:

    It is well known that the Israelis destroy the homes of terrorists. I think it is pretty constrained, given that the family of the terrorist doubtless encouraged the initial attack and hatred. The Palestiinians can hardly say they are surprised by the destruction of the home. It was the path they chose.

  5. avatar red Sox says:

    Yes absolutely. The Israeli’s have it right, take no hostages if war is what the dirty mooslums want it is war they will get.

  6. avatar jwtaylor says:

    For Israel, don’t know, it’s not my country.
    For America, absolutely not. If a family member is complicit by act or knowledge aforethought of the act, then they are to be punished.
    But to punish people for acts they did not do is the kind of abject tyranny this country was founded against. If you support that behavior in the USA, please be gone by the 4th of July. This country isn’t for you, and real Americans would rather not have you here ruining the party.

    1. avatar RealityCheck says:

      Exactly.

    2. avatar pwrserge says:

      You’re seriously going to tell me that the family here was had no knowledge? Really?

      1. avatar jwtaylor says:

        That family? No idea. But if this was the USA, punishing them on assumption without evidence is contrary to our fundamental principles.

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          All I would need to punish the family is a shred of evidence of their support for actions like the ones taken by their offspring. That would make them collaborators to an illegal combatant and make them, themselves, illegal combatants not covered by either POW protections or the United States Constitution. The idea that enemy illegal combatants are entitled to Constitutional protections is absurd.

      2. avatar Bill in IL says:

        Wow, you are pretty far out there, your policies are in line tyrants throughout history.

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          So it’s tyrannical to punish illegal combatants and their accomplices? Was George Washington a tyrant when he ordered British spies hung? Was Congress tyrannical when they sent the United States Navy and Marines to the Barbary coast to go hang pirates?

    3. avatar hobbez says:

      Support this idea or not, I will tell you without a doubt: if there was a chance that I would be killed because of something my immediate family did, I would be keeping a DAMN keen eye on what my family did and making sure no one did anything stupid.

      1. avatar jwtaylor says:

        We are very different people. That policy would be enough to make me commit violence against those that created such a policy. Id consider my family a loss, and hope that I had trained them enough to follow my example.

    4. avatar CLarson says:

      Heck no the U.S. government should not go after it’s own citizens like this. To be fair, the point must be clear that Israel is not doing this to it’s own citizens either. These are punitive actions done to foreign nationals in enemy states, which is right and proper.

      1. avatar pwrserge says:

        Thank you, somebody gets it. Illegal combatants are not subject to legal protections afforded to citizens.

  7. avatar Ing says:

    No, I absolutely would not support actions like that here in the U.S. (Or anywhere, really.) If that kind of crap starts happening here, then I’ll know the United States of America is officially dead.

  8. avatar Amfivena says:

    Might not be the right solution, or morally justifiable, but it at least makes some logical sense. Unlike, say, blaming radical Christians for fostering an environment of hate.

    Punishing families in the US – no way! In Israel? I’m not going to pass judgement on them. It is a tough neighborhood.

  9. avatar Rooster says:

    No because I support the constitution and understand it still applies to people I don’t like.

  10. avatar CLarson says:

    Hopefully America elects the right leadership and we will never have to contemplate these horrible circumstances over here. Japan found a way to deal with this and they have never suffered an Islamic terror attack. We should emulate their successful strategy.

    http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/opinions/the-land-without-muslims/2013/05/19/0/

    1. avatar RealityCheck says:

      Yes, there are some advantages to living in a semi-police state. The trains run on time, for example.

      But — you’re living in a semi-police state at that point. And there’s that whole pesky first amendment too; you start classifying people for observation and police action by their religion, and where does it stop?

      1. avatar pwrserge says:

        Islam is an ideology, not a religion. It does not get to hide behind 1st amendment protections when its core tenets call for the overthrow of “kafir” governments in favor of sharia law.

        1. avatar RealityCheck says:

          Look, yes, that part of Islam is seriously screwed up and does not play nice with ordered society. Just like in Japan, who were a bunch of bloodthirsty murdering invading conquering bastards where society decreed that the Emperor was a god, and so when the Emperor ordered the Japanese to war and to fight to the last man, by gum, they did it.

          So Douglas MacaArthur got out a big black pen and scratched that particular BS out of the Japanese constitution, and he stuck a knife to the emperor’s throat (metaphorically) and made him go on the radio and renounce the whole “emperor is divine” horsecrap.

          And since then, the Japanese have developed into a peaceful, wonderful society who, instead of colonizing the eastern hemisphere, now devote themselves to producing anime and monster movies.

          Same thing has to happen to Islam. We need a modern-day MacArthur to grab the “caliphate” and the ruling imams by the scrotum, and get ’em to announce “hey, we were wrong, Shariah is horsehockey and that whole “emulate Muhammad” thing has to go because he was actually a murderous pedophile and that’s actually, you know, not something we should be emulating.” Do that, and we’ve got a chance… and a billion people can pull their heads out of their asses and live an infinitely better life too.

      2. avatar CLarson says:

        The article talks about how Japan has banned Muslim immigration and it’s accompanying medieval attitudes and as a consequence is Islamic terror free. Where are you getting police state from? I don’t want a police state. If you don’t have a large hostile, foreign population to worry about there is less justification for needing a police state.

        1. avatar RealityCheck says:

          I’m talking about Japanese society as a whole. They do not enjoy the freedoms that the USA does. The police have extensive powers. It is not a police state, but it’s … semi. As long as you behave there is no problem, and the Japanese, by and large, are excellent at behaving. As such, the society, in general works wonderfully. Up until it doesn’t, which is why their suicide rate is 50% higher than the US’s.

  11. avatar Arod529 says:

    If it can be proven that any family member, friend, acquaintance etc. knew about, encouraged or was otherwise intentionally involved in some manner in terrorist activity, they ought to be served justice as if they did it themselves. We are at war and we need to act appropriately, but we can’t forget what we fight for.

  12. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

    It’s difficult for me to comprehend the absolute hatred some peoples have for the Israelis. It’s also hard to put on the shoes of a people that have been persecuted and murdered for how many centuries?
    Why not just deport the guys family? Let someone else move in?

    1. avatar the ruester says:

      The older palestinians fondly remember the days when Israel was just a super rich district on the western shore. It’s success lifted up the entire nation. When we made Israel it’s own nation, it “robbed” them of the one thing that made them a respectable economy in comparison to the other arabs. The muslim world can not compete economically with the west, so they see the domination and exploitation of the Jews as their golden ticket.

  13. avatar A. C. says:

    Nearly everyone in the Palestinian West Bank government has or had connections to Al Fatah, most were, or still are, members. There is a history of Al Fatah paying substantial rewards to families of dead Palestinian assassins if they succeed in killing one or more Israelis. Yassir Arafat, while he was president of the West Bank, kept the payment records on the West Bank government computers. So the families benefit from a family member committing a terrorist act against Israelis. The destruction of the home isn’t simply retaliation, it negates the financial reward received. This is why the Israeli policy makes sense.

  14. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

    It’s attractive, even seductive, but no, I wouldn’t support that here. I won’t criticize Israel’s approach, but I wouldn’t support it here.

    Due process means something. Freedom of association means something. If there is evidence that the family knew in advance, but failed to report the plot, or provided material support to a terrorist, or otherwise committed an overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy, then come down on them like a ton of bricks.

    Target them as suspects, even, in the course of the investigation; but don’t fast forward through investigation and prosecution and go straight to conviction and punishment.

  15. avatar Matt in Oklahoma says:

    It’s not my (America) business what they Israeli’s decide to do with the GFers house. I’m driving in my lane only. You all should try it too. Now as far as what we should do as Americans because she was an American that’s different. It would be nice if we didn’t have a weak@ss response for a change but that’s a pipe dream.

  16. avatar MAF says:

    Those m****f*****s throw candy in the streets after a Jew is murdered, they name streets after the “martyr”. Not only do I support demolishing the house of the family, I would deport the immediate family from the West Bank to Gaza and let them rot.

  17. avatar DrewR55 says:

    The less rational side of me supports the actions of the Israeli government and wishes worse would befall the family of the SoB who thought that murdering a thirteen year old girl in her bed would somehow make the Jews cower and return parts of Jerusalem. Frankly, I have no sympathy for the Palistenians.

    However, the rational side of me feels that this isn’t the best method of deterring future terrorist attacks. for me, targeting the family of this animal isn’t much different then Soviet reprisals against civilians in Afghanistan. More over, it would be like punishing the parents of Dorothy Dutiel for her going off the rails and it would not deter other teens from committing murders in the future.

    But, have no doubt. The less rational side wishes the SoBs family had been in the house when it was demolished.

  18. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

    Israel’s circumstances are rather different. They’re living in the midst of a protracted battle for their existence, against an enemy who has said (repeatedly) that they want to see the Jews in Israel extirpated, and then backs up their words with repeated actions that show that Israel’s enemies aren’t merely talking Big Talk in a bar or some such.

    When you’re dealing with attackers who make it their mission to mount attacks upon a non-combatant, civilian populace, the laws, treaties and notions of ‘polite’ warmaking no longer apply. What the west fails to realize (yet) is that these notions never applied in the Muslim’s mind – the Qur’an and examples of Muhammad himself show that the nice, clean, antiseptic ideas of warfare promulgated by a bunch of European toffs and inbred ‘royalty’ are unilateral folly.

    I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: Making war against Islam is going to get messy. It will be a war like American/European powers think they’re above, a war too messy and nasty for their effete, elite and pampered cherubs to contemplate. In the end, the choice will be between wholesale slaughter of their civilians vs. wholesale slaughter of ours.

    Don’t believe me? Go start reading Islamic history.

  19. avatar Gman says:

    Israel is not the US. They are under constant threat of attack. We are not. Not at least in the same sense. What we would consider as uncivilized has no meaning in their world. How would we act if every country around us wanted to wipe us off the map? Personally, I’m a proponent of settling the worlds issues with the least amount of American blood, so if folks like NK or Iran want nukes, I see no problem giving them as many as they want. Special delivery.

    1. avatar SteveInCO says:

      Fissile Material, Free Samples!

      Twenty pound minimum.

      No need to call for delivery, we’ll just drop in.

  20. avatar maxwell97 says:

    No one should support this in the US. The Constitution requires due process of law, and for treason specifically forbids corruption of blood.

    If family members of a criminal can be individually convicted of a crime, go for it. If not, punishing them for the actions of a relative is no better than confiscating guns from the public.

    1. avatar pwrserge says:

      Constitutional protections do not apply to illegal combatants. Try again. For example, US Marines hanging pirates has always been seen as perfectly legitimate.

      1. avatar maxwell97 says:

        What illegal combatants are we talking about? Does the family of an illegal combatant automatically become illegal combatants?

        I won’t pass judgment on what the Israelis do, but this should never happen in the US.

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          If the family provided material support to an illegal combatant? Yes, yes they are.

  21. avatar formerwaterwalker says:

    A.C. has it right. May I add the pos’s mom was on camera hailing her son as a hero and a martyr. So I’m all for the Israel’s action. I think they show remarkable, unreal and near SUICIDAL restraint as they treat internal enemies with kid gloves. And employ muzzies(and pay far more than Arabs do),let them vote in elections and tolerate murderous vile rhetoric no other country would…HERE NOT SO MUCH.

    1. avatar Herb says:

      You want suicidal? How about the Israeli policy of treating wounded captured terrorists in Israeli hospitals, only to have them in every single instance roar their hatred for the filthy Zionists and vow to commit even more terrorist acts?

      In my opinion the humanitarianism of the Israelis is excessive & will only result in more Jews being murdered by Muslim terrorists like this one. Destroying empty houses shows incredible restraint on their part.

  22. avatar RandyN says:

    I would not normally be for punishing the family collectively without Due Process, and I would not support such actions here in this country. But Israel is a small nation surrounded by those that have sworn to kill them. As harsh as that action seems to us, it is what is necessary in that region where Not reacting harshly is seen as a sign of weakness. The Palestinians are not as upset by this as they will let on to the American media. They have a good understanding of how to manipulate American opinion.

  23. avatar Ralph says:

    The US does that same thing now. It’s called “civil asset forfeiture.” Police confiscate homes, cars, cash, anything they think is connected, however tenuously, to crime even if the owners have done nothing wrong. And there’s no trial.

    Not feeling so superior now, eh, Mr. Bond?

  24. avatar Alexander says:

    Wrong answer. Destroying their shack means that either Iran or Saudis will build them a better house. Executing them for promoting terrorism would be a much more effective measure. Rest assured that the Iranians and the Saudis would have done it in a heartbeat.

  25. avatar Tom in Pa says:

    Our modern concept of war is inundated with ideology, limitations, vacillation and fallacious reasoning, none of which I’m a fan of, and particularly less so in the face of a Quranic concept of war carried out with asymmetric tactics in our backyards. It’s really time to get our caveman on.

  26. avatar Muih says:

    Yes…because we’ve seen this work ever so well at preventing future attacks and calming tensions to try and prevent such things in the future. Well, not really, but dont let that get in the way of anything…

    Two wrongs dont make a right and all that, this is just feeding the terrorists paradigm. Murdering a 13 year old girl isnt helping the Palestinians, and wrecking homes where non-perps lived isn’ helping the Israelis.

    It is a wonderful play straight from the books of countless atrocities committed by numerous actors during the first half of the last century from Iberia to Siberia however…

  27. avatar Mikial says:

    I’ve spent time in Israel and the West Bank. I have Palestinian friends and Israeli friends. The Israeli system works better than any other counter terrorist strategy in the world. Terrorist’s families who live in the same home know what is going on and they either condone it, actively support it or just stay out of the way. Yes, Israel still suffers attacks but far less than they would otherwise considering they are surrounded on all sides by enemies who want to annihilate them and the reason is they don’t play around when dealing with terrorists.

  28. avatar James in AZ says:

    On US soil against US citzens or permanent residents? No. Due fvckin process.

    Foreigners on foreign land? Assrape them before blowing their brains out and leaving the body chopped up in the street

  29. avatar Indiana Tom says:

    LeMay Treatment.
    Dauntless Dottie is looking good!

  30. avatar Yellow Devil says:

    I remember watching the movie World War Z and the scene where Brad Pitt characters goes to Israel to possible find the source of the Virus. He notices the Israelis have things in relatively good order, through the use of walls and controlled screening to keep the rampaging zombies outside of the remaining disease free areas of the country. Pitt asks one of the Israeli Generals(?) why they implemented this policy of letting everyone in. The General replied to the effect they realized that keeping people out would only add more numbers to the zombie horde. A couple of scenes later, a couple of refugees that are let in start celebrating loudly, singing and dancing despite general orders to remain quiet near the wall. The zombies hear this, go in a frenzy and make their own infamous zombie wall to scale the concrete one and overwhelm the inside zone.

    I don’t know if they has anything to do with this specific situation, but I always thought it was an interesting cautionary tail about letting refugees into the country willy nilly.

  31. avatar Tal says:

    I notice there are some posts you can’t reply to. Is this just on my end? Either way, would I support that here in the United States against US citizens? Of course not.

    Now for this bullshit.

    “Omer Baker says:
    July 1, 2016 at 12:32
    Collective responsibility is also an effective way to create more terrorists. If the US were under occupation and your family were killed by the occupiers, would you be more likely to take up arms against them?”

    Because this is slightly off topic I’ll be brief but thorough if need be. Omer Baker. The Arabs are NOT the indigenous people of the Levant. They didn’t even arrive to the region until roughly 632 with the Arab expansion. Jews (and other groups) pre-date the arrival of Arabs in NEARLY every middle eastern and north African country. Sometimes by well over a thousand years. The only time that region was informally referred to as Palestine it was full of, you guessed it, Jews./Israelites. Later the Jewish people were expelled from certain areas due to military conquest.

    The point I am making is Judea and Samaria is native Jewish land. Jews cannot “occupy” their own land. It does not belong to the Arabs and frankly neither does a whole lot of the rest of the middle east. I Will GLADLY provide you with a wealth of sources if you would like. Just try me.

    1. avatar Mikial says:

      Well said and agree completely. There never was a country of Palestine. And while the rest of the world is saying the Israelis should give their tiny country to the Arabs, the rest of the huge Arab world does nothing for the Palestinians but use them as cheap labor. I’ve been to Jordan over a dozen times and trust me, the Palestinians are the Mexican gardeners of the Arab world, but the anti-Semite bigots still blame the Jews. Pure BS!

  32. avatar Chris Mallory says:

    Collective punishment, we hanged a bunch of Germans for that.

    “No question now what has happened to the faces of the pigs. The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again: but already it was impossible to say which was which.”

    1. avatar pwrserge says:

      Should we have also hung the United States Marines who hung entire crews of Barbary pirates from their own yardarms? Executing illegal combatants and their accomplices is well established under the laws and customs of war.

      1. avatar Chris Mallory says:

        The Germans were killing family members, not ships crew. Punishing the innocent is an evil act, no matter if it is the Israelis or the Nazis doing it.
        By the way, your argument about executing illegal combatants excuses a lot of those same Germans. The resistance and the partisans would be called terrorists in today’s world.

        The best thing that could happen is for the US to end all aid to every other nation, bring all our troops home, end all dual citizenship and stick to guarding our own borders. Let the Middle East and everyone in it burn, it is none of our business.

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          You do realize that Barbary pirates were often family affairs? Right? So it’s not ok to kill a terrorist cook, but it’s ok to hang a ship’s cook?

          Again… George Washington had illegal combatants hanged. This has happened in every war.

          Just because the Nazis used something as an excuse doesn’t make it a bad thing.

        2. avatar Tal says:

          The Israelis aren’t killing the families of terrorists in retaliation.

          And the only families that get their homes demolished are the ones who accepted cash/financial reward for having a relative kill Israelis. This reward is often paid buy the Terrorist organization is question or Ian, UAE, and formerly Iraq etc. You get the idea.

          This detail is often not passed on.

      2. avatar maxwell97 says:

        “Just because the Nazis used something as an excuse doesn’t make it a bad thing.”

        When you find yourself typing a phrase like this, it’s a good idea to take a moment and consider where your argument is going.

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          It’s called an association fallacy. It proves that your argument has no merit.

          Summary execution of illegal combatants and their accomplices has been an established part of the laws and customs of war for centuries. Just because the Nazis did it too doesn’t make it not so.

        2. avatar JR_in_NC says:

          Oh, get off it. That is pure emotional sophistry.

          We are much better served by cold, dispassionate rational historical analysis. That’s the only way to learn from history.

          The Nazi’s cooked their food. Should we stop doing that as well just because they did it?

        3. avatar Chris Mallory says:

          JR, collective punishment is morally wrong, no matter who is doing it. Anyone who defends Israel doing it is a hypocrite of the first order.

        4. avatar JR_in_NC says:

          “JR, collective punishment is morally wrong, no matter who is doing it. Anyone who defends Israel doing it is a hypocrite of the first order.”

          Aside from the fact that your statement is a tautology and Begging the Question Fallacy …

          Not sure what you think you are responding to. My comment had ZERO to do with collective punishment or Israel.

          My comment was a response to this:

          “When you find yourself typing a phrase like this, it’s a good idea to take a moment and consider where your argument is going.”

          is emotional bleating in regard to the word “Nazi” and nothing more than that. This is SJW-esque attempt at silencing discussion.

          Rather than have a grown-up, rational debate about the pros-cons of an issue, that kind of statement is nothing short of “you said a word I don’t like so nothing of merit can be associated with anything you say.”

        5. avatar maxwell97 says:

          ‘My comment was a response to this:

          “When you find yourself typing a phrase like this, it’s a good idea to take a moment and consider where your argument is going.”

          is emotional bleating in regard to the word “Nazi” and nothing more than that. This is SJW-esque attempt at silencing discussion.’

          Not at all. He’s advocating for the punishment of families for the crimes of a single member, assuming they are guilty in some way of supporting the crime, without requiring any form of evidence or due process. That has nothing to do with the word “Nazi,” and everything to do with the substance of what made the Nazis evil. I wasn’t the one who brought up Nazis; if you prefer to instead equate his approach to that of, say, Communists or Islamists, I wouldn’t disagree.

  33. avatar Matt in Maine says:

    Should have taken out the whole block.

  34. avatar samuraichatter says:

    At least Israel has the scrot to actually have the state do it. It would be so easy to “outsource” retribution to a supposed third party and look the other way.

    Wars are waged against tribes and and families. If you are not prepared to kill a few kids . . . or women or the elderly . . . they will die its a question of how many. It is an ugly business but building and maintaining nations never is pretty. War is the acceptance that innocents and innocence will die as well your enemy. If you are willing to send your best to their deaths then sending their best to The Almighty is not too far of a stretch.

    1. avatar PATRON49 IFT says:

      That Islam and the adherents thereto are at war with all other civilizations is not open to question. If we are willing to look at recent history as far back as only the 1980’s it is plain to see that Western countries have been targeted again and again. Hell it goes back at least to the 1500’s. Their religious doctrine teaches (paraphrasing), the killing by any means possible, wherever you find them, any who are not followers of Islam. It is allowed to lie, cheat, steal, murder or whatever is necessary in the furtherance of elimination of all infidels or those will not convert. Not all Muslims take it to the extreme of the teachings but the directives are there.

      That we don’t want to acknowledge this war of aggression against us does not mean it is not happening.

      Until our national leaders fully acknowledge what is arrayed against all of us in the West, these terrorist acts on our soil will continue unabated. Once they do acknowledge the Islamic war against virtually everyone else but especially us, one would think we as a country would fully engage using all resources. That has not happened yet. If our elected leaders don’t have the will to use the resources at their disposal then we should be prepared to protect ourselves as best we can.

      The war between Islam and other societies will continue until Islam is defeated worldwide. BTW, does anyone else remember that when the Soviet Union had a stranglehold on most of the mid-east, there were no terrorist acts against the West and other countries like now. Not suggesting for a minute I want the USSR back again.

  35. avatar RobinTn says:

    The family and friends of the Chattanooga Muslim shooter are being protected by our very own government. The lead agent confirmed that people knew of the shooter’s plans and chose not to report. And yet no arrests…

  36. avatar FedUp says:

    In some situations, Sippenhaftung can be very effective.
    The Israelis use it because it seems to work for them. The same reason the NAZIS used it on the ancestors of many Israelis.

    The question we need to be asking ourselves:
    Is EFFECTIVE tyranny more acceptable than INEFFECTIVE tyranny?

    http://westernrifleshooters.blogspot.com/2008/06/vanderboegh-sippenhaft.html

  37. avatar J0shua says:

    In Israel, where the families are known to get paid for martyred children, yes, demolish the homestead of the terrorists family. That way they have a choice: you can have a home and a child or you can martyr your child, lose your home, and use your winnings to buy a new home, which means you will have a home but no child. A home and a child > a home and no child.

    On another note, if I wanted to see some bloody shirt waiving I’d google up some Gore website or the trace or some other shit like that. The other day you wrote an article about how you were a generation removed from the horrors of nazi Germany and why u stay armed, it was a great article, but here you are again waiving the bloody shirt and I won’t be surprised at all if tomorrow you are accusing some anti-gun website of waiving the bloody shirt for gun control. You are a solid writer when your hypocrisy is under control but I don’t need to see the remains of this girl’s murder scene, and sure as hell dont need to see you guys post another pic of the dead Frenchmen from bataclan for like the third or fourth time, but I guess that’s the price of admission around here?

  38. avatar Sammy^ says:

    If they take the no fly list so seriously why are there a reported 70 odd such listed “folks” working at DHS?

    http://freebeacon.com/national-security/72-dhs-employees-on-terrorist-watch-list/

  39. avatar Cloudbuster says:

    I’d support revoking the citizenship of Omar Mateen’s parents and second wife and deporting them (after time served in the wife’s case). All were complicit in his terrorism. The father is an anti-American nutjob. The wife is under investigation as an accessory.

    Islam is pretty much a vast criminal/terrorist conspiracy.

  40. avatar JR_in_NC says:

    It has happened here. William T. Sherman’s swath of destruction through SC was nothing but punitive.

    Homes, farms, ecclesiastical buildings ( often considered ‘off limits’ in warfare) were purposefully destroyed.

    I’ve even heard one history teacher friend say Sherman was a hero and ‘The South’ deserved destruction of civilian targets for daring attempt secession, and that Sherman should have done more.

  41. avatar John says:

    Why not neuter the killers? At least it is a step toward fewer of them.

  42. avatar Soccerchainsaw says:

    You would think that we (the people of the gun) wouldn’t be advocating for punishing the innocent for the evil actions of the guilty.
    Sounds like a good way to spawn more terrorists (or patriotic rebels depending on which side of history you end up on)….

  43. avatar LHW says:

    Not here, Due Process and all.

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